Mini 570, A Small Town in Italy Mafia, Over

[SensFan]

Non-random

Vote: Erratus Apathos

[SensFan]

Non-random Vote: Erratus Apathos

any reason you would like to share?

Sure, he was the first person to bring up the possibility of a Doc or RB.

[SensFan]

So Guppy is a non-Newb that is seriously arguing that random votes are a scumtell?

Unvote (if I'm voting), Vote: Guppy

Oh, and

MOD

, I would like to second the request that you show who is voting who. Thanks.

[SensFan]

Ha even guppy wants himself lynched. This imo is more desperate town than mafia.
But im not sure what the stats say on that.

I think the stats are something along the lines of this:

Code: Select all

X% Town
Y% Mafia
100% WIFOM

FoS:vamp

[SensFan]

Unvote

Ha! My self voting-strategy worked again.

But seriously, I don't understand why Llamatek, or whoever, is so keen on lynching me. I'm clearly not scum, so how come he thinks so?

im keeping my vote on you just for this post scumbag.

QFT.

As a Town player, avoiding getting lynched is second on your priorities, after scumcatching. Scums have avoiding getting lynched on top.

[SensFan]

Unvote, Vote: Occult

I'm not going against an uncountered Cop claim. A counter is the only thing I can see changing my vote.

That doesn't mean I like the play by vamp, though. Relies way too much on a Doc to work. Also there was no real need for you to come out this early.

Minor FoS: Vamp

[SensFan]

If he had claimed before me it would then make my "im cop occult is scum" look a lot more unbelievable.

Actually, its pretty much the opposite.

Unless the Town is in LyLo, you should always lynch the counter-claim first. A 1-for-1 trade is fine for the Town, but dreadful for the scums. That's why it is assumed Scum will not counter until they need to. Cop with a Guilty is the obvious exception to the rule.

[SensFan]

Ok thank you Erratus Apathos I have read a lot about roles now so have a better understanding. Again sorry to claim day one but well it is done so we have to make the best out of it now.
I guess I get to choose the investigation all on my ownsome.

Actually, its pretty much the opposite.

Unless the Town is in LyLo, you should always lynch the counter-claim first.

Well thats what I was saying I had suspicion occult was trying to set himself up as cop with the help of Lalmtreasteek and thoguth I better get in first with a claim before as a counter claim from me would put me in that situation.

Wait, sorry. In general, always lynch the original claim first. Scum won't risk countering unless in LyLo.

[SensFan]

would the real doc claim (I think not) as that would give the mafia their nk.

Everyone should claim their role, no matter what.

NEVER

lie about your role as Town.

[SensFan]

And I apoligize for perhaps ruining this game by my cop claim so early but I am still very new to this game. And by no means do I think that scum have this game lost yet and would hope they still give it their all.

In all honesty, I would think any scum would be more frustrated with the Mod than you. I don't think that a Mafia RB by any means cancels out a Cop+Doc.

[SensFan]

Look, skyedoc cannot be faulted for the actions of his replacement. After all, it's not like Ration discussed his strategy with Sky beforehand. Let's not do Ration a favor by keeping him in the discussion. He posted exactly twice, and neither time made any contributions. Let's just write him off, and focus solely on Sky's actions.

That's ridiculous. So if Ration had claimed UnNKVigDocSuperCop, then got replaced, we would let skyedoc slide completely? I realize that's a large exaggeration, but the principle is the same.

[SensFan]

I realize that's a large exaggeration, but the principle is the same.

[SensFan]

I think NO LYNCH AND INVESTIGATE ME is a good idea.
then you can get off my damn back.

To be honest, that SCREAMS of Invest-Immune GF...

[SensFan]

Edit: With 11 Alive, it's 11/2 rounded up plus 1 to lynch

Uhh...that's wrong...

It's Odd/2 rounded up, or Even/2 plus 1. Never both.

[SensFan]

Oh, and for good measure,

Unvote, Vote: Guppy

. I don't care if he was mod-confirmed as a UnNKCopDocVig, I would still want him lynched for self-voting.

[SensFan]

Jason Spezza, a player for the Ottawa Senators,

Random fun fact

- I was just bowling, and Spezza was in the lane next to me!

that must have been cool. did you get to meet him?

- Niv

[SensFan]

ok so its safe 2 say that avinshv is either a insane cop or lying scum. i guess id have to rule out sykedoc being scum for the moment, interested in what vampire has 2 say about his investigation.

Couldn't avin be noid as well? Also, vamp needs to claim all his results now. It is doubtful he will live until tomorrow.

Jason Spezza, a player for the Ottawa Senators,

Random fun fact

- I was just bowling, and Spezza was in the lane next to me!

that must have been cool. did you get to meet him?

- Niv

Yeah, I have a picture of me and him. If the Sens win on Tuesday, I take full credit for telling him that Price is weak on his glove side, lol...

[SensFan]

Insane would be best for the Town, although I strongly doubt the Mod would give us 2 useful Cops and a Doc...

Also, agreeing with a

Vote: Awesome Pants

.

[SensFan]

Oh, and

SensFan

: You seem awfully eager to jump on a bandwagon without much explanation. I'd be interested to know what your thoughts about Erratus Apathos, considering that your vote on me seems to have stemmed from his post. Do you believe that he is town?

EA's reasoning made sense. If, as a pro-Town player, you see something you agree with, you should back the idea.

If you insist, I'll look over EA's posts, but his alignment is really neither here nor there.

[SensFan]

WTF is it with people building cases on people I have got innocent investigation results from. I will try and catch up on things before monday.

Until you're a Mod-Confirmed SuperCop, your investigations are by no means true.

[SensFan]

WTF is it with people building cases on people I have got innocent investigation results from. I will try and catch up on things before monday.

Until you're a Mod-Confirmed SuperCop, your investigations are by no means true.

He's been right two times now, I think that's as good as we're gonna get. What are you trying to imply?

From my perspective, he could be:

* Scum
* Investigating an Investigation-Immune GF

A claimed innocent will only be treated as confirmed when both of the above are impossible. One of the above being rendered impossible would certainly solidify the position of those results, though.

[SensFan]

No. He is much more likely to be Town than anyone not investigated. All I am saying is that he is not necessarily Town.

[SensFan]

No. You pick someone to claim. They will claim, then choose the next person. Repeat until everyone has claimed.

I refuse to agree to a pseudo-massclaim that involves people claiming whenever.

[SensFan]

who's next, killa?

[SensFan]

killa, posting to agree with the majority. Especially on a tight deadline, you WILL be lynched if you refuse to share your info today.

[SensFan]

Meh, I agree with a killa lynch. I don't like how his 'big idea' that he couldn't share with us turned out to be 'WIFOM REGARDING COP STAYING ALIVE'. Reeks of Scum that faked a stroke of genius to try and survive another day.

[SensFan]

About what?

[SensFan]

I whole heartedly support a mass popcorn claim. Any volunteers to go first?

[SensFan]

I'll second skyedoc goes

For the record, you don't get a say. Pants claimed, he gets to chose who goes next.

[SensFan]

Actually, I'm At the point where I'm almost going to prod everyone.

Infact I am going to prod everyone.

You do realize that no one can post content until sykedoc does, right?

Yes and no, yes you are waiting on sykedoc, but there are other things to talk about in any mafia game at any time.

~ Niv

[SensFan]

sykedoc, PICK SOMEONE TO CLAIM

[SensFan]

Yes and no, yes you are waiting on sykedoc, but there are other things to talk about in any mafia game at any time.

~ Niv

Actually, no. The Town should not talk about anything until all the claims are done, lest they risk giving some extra information to the Scums.

[SensFan]

Also am i wrong in assuming a setup of this size has a mason by default?

Nice try. Next time, though, ask those types of questions BEFORE you fake-claim Mason...

For the record, my stance is that Cop+Doc is already broken as fuck in favor of the Town. The possibility we might have 2 more confirmed innocents is laughable.

[SensFan]

Vote: Fireball

[SensFan]

As was claiming out of turn.

[SensFan]

Unvote

now that my reasons have been understood.

Destructor, you're up. With your claim, chose the next person.

[SensFan]

Out of interest, who would each of you like to claim after me?

No. You will make the decision on your own, without asking or getting advice from anyone.

[SensFan]

I read from the start of Day 3.

(2) You did not, in fact, directly ask your mason partner to claim in this open town forum. You would have immediately been shot down. Even if you were under intense scrutiny--which, you were--you had guaranteed no-lynch safety until everybody had claimed, a strategy that the town agreed to.

av, can you clarify what you're saying here? I don't really understand.

Out of interest, who would each of you like to claim after me?

No. You will make the decision on your own, without asking or getting advice from anyone.

I understand that, but I think it would also be informative to see who the rest of you would like to see claim next as well. I'm not asking for reasons, only names . So, yes, my request still stands... unless you can tell my why it may defeat the purpose of a popcorn claim.

@ skyedoc and MightyFireball

- Is your mason partner confirmed innocent?

Neither of us are, but really that means nothing anyway. Plenty of us aren't confirmed.

I'm unsure of whether or not you understood the question. In your role PM, is there anything that indicates whether MF is

unquestionably

town? If not, can you ask our mod about this and let us know what he says?


For the record, I think the massclaim was probably a bad idea.

You will claim NOW. And then you will name someone NOW.

[SensFan]

Vote: destructor

If he were Town, he could have claimed immediately, be just looking at his PM. Nothing he reads in the thread will change what he should claim, if he were Town. Scum, on the other hand, need time to reread before they can come up with a plausible claim.

[SensFan]

Vote: destructor

No. Vamp confirmed him innocent. There is obviously the very real possibility that he is Godfather; Fox wasn't playing that well either. I still feel that a vote right now is premature before all the roles are out.

Please explain why a pro-Town player would refuse to claim in a massclaim scenario until they have read the thread. Note that he did not contest the idea of a massclaim, but just didn't want to claim until he read the thread.

[SensFan]

Townie.

Pants?

[SensFan]

For the record, detructror has acted just about as scummy as possible since replacing in, in my opinion.

I don't plan on posting until the massclaim is completed, and I suggest others do the same.

[SensFan]

Err, if either of you had been reading you'd have noticed that I was the one that lead the claims. Pick again.

Lol, sorry. EA.

Again, I do not plan on posting until the mass claim is done. I suggest others do the same.

[SensFan]

I only attacked destructor after he declined to claim without reading and analyzing. I didn't so much attack Fireball as just vote him.

*The Fireball scenario is as I recall it from memory. Going to reread that area now, and will repost if I did more than vote him.

[SensFan]

SensFan, are you suggesting that every massclaim scenario is identical?

From a Townperson's point of view, yes. As soon as it is their turn, they check their PM inbox for their role PM. They then immediately post said role in thread. Then, they decide who is up next. All but that last step are completely independent of anything that has happened in the game, from a Town POV.

I've only ever been involved in a mass role claim once, and that was a C9 newbie game.

Ah. Thanks for admitting to having experienced a mass claim before. Confirms that you do understand the basics of a mass claim.

Yes, I could have claimed immediately but there's no way I'm going to do that without knowing why the massclaiming became an option at all.

Why would that matter unless you need to come up with a claim?

I don't know if aggression is your 'playstyle'

By 'aggression', do you mean 'awareness of how long it should take to claim truthfully in a mass claim?

but that vote and your treatment of me since my entrance to this game is coming across as opportunistic,

Calling you out for an obvious lie is not being opportunistic.

and certainly not good play.

Assuming you are Town, I fully agree you played poorly.

[SensFan]

Where is Sens?

Out of Town, as his sig (and post in the V/LA thread) says he was.

More info later, after I have a chance to sleep.

[SensFan]

Sens:

14.If you’re going to be away post it in thread.

I had it in my sig, and posted in the V/LA thread.

Sorry, but I did all that could reasonably be expected of me, short of posting in every single game I'm playing in. More so, its not like I haven't been pretty active throughout this game.

[SensFan]

no read at all on SensFan.

I have trouble believing you can have absolutely no read on a player with over 45 posts.

[SensFan]

Prodded, had forgotten I was alive in this game.

Will go back 2 pages and answer anything directed at me.

[SensFan]

Sens, I'm suspicious of because I think he's been actively lurking. Most of his contributions to the game have been logical pro-town points that are general knowledge and essentially null-tells. He hasn't been scum-hunting to any obvious effect, but just poking at things as the come up, using the typical pro-town lines and taking apparently firm stands on arguably trivial subjects, again, to no obvious effect. Basically, he's been giving off an impression of involvement without really being involved.

So I assume that you consider pressuring several players, by myself, as the mass claim went on to be "taking apparently firm stands on arguably trivial subjects"?

Aha! I see what you mean. I took his attacks on destructor for not immediately claiming to be the aggressive playstyle of a pro-town player. However, on the reread, this doesn't seem to be quite the case. As a result, I'll place the minor

FoS: SensFan

, pending further analysis.

What changed your mind during a reread? How did my posting look any less agressive?

@SensFan:

I have trouble believing you can have absolutely no read on a player with over 45 posts.

Are you trying to look scummy? That most definitely did. The direct lack of attention to the many questions towards you also did.

Throwing in a 1-liner like that certainly isn't going to fly. What the Hell is wrong with me doubting that someone has no read on me at all, when I have over 45 posts. Also, I don't see very many direct questions before this post. Please point them out to me, since I just read from page 19.

@SensFan: You still haven't answered my questions. Also, why are you voting for destructor?

Again, which questions? Also, I think its pretty damn obvious why my vote is on destructor. Try reading the thread.

Neither of us will come up scum and if you need to lynch me to see that go the hell ahead.

Sorry, but how would you know for a fact that Fireball is Town? Didn't you specifically say that your PM did not guarantee him being pro-Town?

Big FoS: SensFan

.

He hasn't replied to any direct questions, and has been lurking like no other. Quick meta shows that he has been extremely active over the last 5 days elsewhere on MS.

His lack of response makes him a major scum candidate to me now. His playstyle has been pretty poor--lots of little posts with very little real content.

@

Mod

Major prods please.

Meh, I forgot I was alive. As soon as I was prodded, I posted.

Again, please point the the direct questions I have supposedly been avoiding.

After some consideration, I've decided I'd rather lynch SensFan today. The reason is what avinashv raised on the last page. AP has made more of a contribution to the game than Sens. I think Sens is pretty obviously lurking right now and his contribution to the game hasn't been pro-town, but has definitely been presented in a way to seem it is.

Unvote
Vote: SensFan

Again, I forgot about the game. That could happen to anyone.

I repeat my questions from earlier at how I am trying to blend in, while still going out on a limb to attack you and Fireball during the claims.

[SensFan]

Sens:

Calling you out for an obvious lie is not being opportunistic.

A lie?

I'll have to go back and find the context. I admit that I don't remember what I might have been getting at.

Oh, and about this:

So I assume that you consider pressuring several players, by myself, as the mass claim went on to be "taking apparently firm stands on arguably trivial subjects"?

Well, yes. I still don't see why you voted MF. What real harm was there in MF claiming to back his mason partner up? Do you think scum would really consider fake-claiming mason?

I can understand your vote on me more, but I stand by the fact that I wanted to make sure I'd read the game before joining the massclaim.

We had agreed on an order to claim. MF broke the order for absolutely no good reason, since we obviously would not have lynched syke until after all the claims.

Sens Fan's attack on Destructor screams blatent setup. Sens told Des to pick the next claim onm his own without any help, Then, when Des obeys Sens and reads the thread to decide the next claim, Sens says thats scummy too. The whole things comes off way oportunistic.

Fos: SensFan

responce to this please Sens

In a perfect world (for me, anyways), des would have IMMEDIATELY claimed, then read the thread and chose who's up next.

I maintain that there is absolutely no valid reason for him to wait before claiming his role. Assuming he is Town, he is just going to claim exactly what is in his PM, regardless of what has unfolded in the game. This is doubly true with him being a Townie, so he had no information of any kind. The only thing he gains by waiting to claim is the ability to read over the thread before deciding on what to claim, which only comes into play if he's Scum.

[SensFan]

Sens:

Calling you out for an obvious lie is not being opportunistic.

A lie?

I'll have to go back and find the context. I admit that I don't remember what I might have been getting at.

Going back, the only thing I can come up with is that you claimed you had to read the thread before claiming, and yet had a role that could be claimed without reading a single post.

I know it seems shaky, but, looking back, that's all I can come up with.

[SensFan]

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be informed about the game before claiming.

That's the part I disagree with.

Explain to me what a pro-Town player needs to read before he can paraphrase a PM he received?

[SensFan]

I think that was a blatant attack aimed to look like scum hunting based on a huge error on destructor's part.

If it

looks

like Scumhunting, and it

smells

like Scumhunting, and it

feels

like Scumhunting...

[SensFan]

Des
Awesome
MFB
EA

Order of most suspect to least suspect.

[SensFan]

Sensfan maintained his position without more than a gut instinct.

Bullshit.

[SensFan]

Bullshit.

You could refute the claim if you wanted to.

Or I could not feel like quoting just about every post I've made since destructor replaced in...

[SensFan]

That's a blatant exaggeration. You're not doing yourself any favours.

Not really.

Pretty much every post of mine since you replaced in included me explaining why not claiming immediately is scummy, since people asked me over and over again.

[SensFan]

snesfan for attcking des for reading the thread after he told des to choose a claim on his own "without asking or getting advice from anyone" Which required he read the thread

See, that's the thing. YOU DON T NEED ANYTHING BUT A ROLE PM TO BE ABLE TO CLAIM!

[SensFan]

Sorry, had missed this post, since it was at the bottom of a page.

Things I didn't know or was uncertain of before I read:
• How many players had claimed.
• What roles had claimed.
• What sort of setup we may be in.
•

Why

we were massclaiming at all.

Absolutely none of those things matter.

[SensFan]

Sens is either lazy town or scum, and if he's scum, he's lazy too.

Why am I lazy?

[SensFan]

Now that you have posted, though, MF, it does mean that neither you nor I are Scum, assuming AP is Town. That means that des and EA must be Scum, from a APTown point of view.

[SensFan]

Unless, of course, one of you is AP's scum buddy. That's pretty obvious.

I stated clearly that the post was going off the assumption AP was Town. Thanks for misrepresenting me, though!

[SensFan]

If that is all you have, that's a pretty pissweak reason to place someone at number 1 on your lylo voting list in the context of this game.

No, actually. I think that refusal to claim in a massclaim scenario until you have read the thread is probably one of the scummier things someone can do.

[SensFan]

And when are you planning to tell us what, besides the massclaim thing, you have against me?

Very little.

[SensFan]

@ Sens, I thought so. I assume you've given up now, which is why you're not answering my other questions.

Lol, that's funny.

I'm not giving up at all, I just find it impossible that you do not see why it was extremely scummy for you not to claim right away. I'm pretty sure I;ve answered all the questions you've asked me, too. Repost or refer me to any I might have missed.

Might not have access until tomorrow evening.

[SensFan]

And des being almost cleared is now agreement with sens. translation: MF lynch is unfeasable, so let's try des instead.

Can you explain that a little better, please? I'm not sure I understand why my name is being brought up...

[SensFan]

Ok.

How do you feel about des needing to read the thread before paraphrasing his Role PM, especially as Townie...

[SensFan]

I think you mean 'once a massclaim begins it must continue', and it's not, but failing some extenuating circumstances coming from someone's claim a mass claim will go ahead. As a town, we had already decided to claim and as such unless your role had some information that would stop us claiming for whatever reason, there would be no way that we would stopped claiming just because you said so.

How was he to know the town had agreed on a massclaim if he wasn't allowed to read the thread first?

We asked him to claim, since it was mass-claim time. He responded with "No, I want to read the thread first."

[SensFan]

Sens, you only point against me seems to be my desire to wait until I finished my read to claim. That's enough for you to vote someone at lylo?

Already answered that the hesitancy to claim is most of the reason I think you're Scum.

Sens, you're lazy because you're not trying very hard to substantiate your opinions, like you're hoping we'll just accept them at face value. For example, quoting my list, your only comment was "Absolutely none of those things matter". A more involved player would have told us why.

I have explained several times why there is absolutely no valid reason to not paraphrase your PM immediately. If you want, I can specifically refute each point, I guess.

Sens, you seem not at all suspicious of AP but wholly suspicious of me. You put AP second on your list. Why exactly was that?

I still have suspicions of AP. I am just much more suspicious of you.

[SensFan]

1st quote: Is that enough, despite a game's worth of content from other players, to vote someone at lylo?

You seem to not understand just how big of a Scumtell I think that is...

2nd quote: Yes, refuting each point is exactly what I'd like you to do.

Alright. I'll go do that, I suppose.

3rd quote: So, my question is

why

are you suspicious of AP?

General scumminess throughout the game. Today, he has latched on to my arguments about you.

[SensFan]

Things I didn't know or was uncertain of before I read:
• How many players had claimed.
• What roles had claimed.
• What sort of setup we may be in.
•

Why

we were massclaiming at all.

A, B, and C only have any sort of relevance to your claim if you are trying to make up a claim, and you need to see what you can allow yourself to fake.
D has no relevance if the Town has decided to massclaim.

[SensFan]

General scumminess throughout the game. Today, he has latched on to my arguments about you.

I'm not sure if I understand you here. Are you saying that since he agreed with you, you find him scummy?

No. I am saying that the manner in which he agreed with me is scummy. As I recall, no one really agreed with me on the des issue yesterday, and AP has come out today swinging the argument like crazy.

I much prefer a des lynch to an AP lynch today. I will, of course, hammer AP at a deadline, to ensure a lynch, but not before then.

[SensFan]

I find it really strange that you find it much more scummy for someone to want to read the thread before claiming than for someone to hop around and agree with whatever theory is most popular. However, the way you play is your business.

Thing is, though, that my idea ISN'T popular, really. Besides, I still have yet to hear a legit argument for not claiming immediately...

[SensFan]

I see then Scumpairs as being, in order:

{des, EA}
{des, AP}
{AP, EA}
[insert ridiculously large gap here]
{MFB, AP}
[infitinely large gap, for completion's sake]
{SF, AP}

[SensFan]

I think you're making that up on the spot.

Des
Awesome
MFB
EA

Order of most suspect to least suspect.

At the very least, EA should have been above MFB.

And you do it again and again, instead of responding to all of my points, you pick one that is easier to refute and ignore the rest.

Someone hurry up and hammer AP.

Notice how that list changes, since now MFB can only be Scum with AP.

And I'm not only refuting one point, I'm on my way to an exam, and I refuted the easiest point to refute while I was on a bus.

[SensFan]

Reread the rules, and there is always a lynch. I much prefer a des lynch, so

Vote: des

.

[SensFan]

Going for the dice roll at lylo?
So, that makes you obvscum, right? (lol's at Fortuna Ex Deus)

Lol, thats WHY I went with the die roll. I am much more confidant in you being Scum than AP.

[SensFan]

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARK

Dice rolls fucking suck.

MFB, why didn't you hammer earlier?

We should have won this game.

EA, you pretty much played this perfectly.

Niv, can you never use dice rolls to decide on deadline lynches again? *cries*

I would argue that the set-up was very biased against the Mafia. 1 Mafia Roleblocker does not allow Cop+Doc. Add to that the pair of Masons...

Meh, whatever. Great game all.

P.S. I do legitimately think it is extraordinarily Scummy not to claim immediately

[SensFan]

Oh, and I did purposely wait until 20 minutes before the deadline to place that vote. That was no coincidence, and I had confirmed the specific time of the deadline with Niv via PM.

[SensFan]

Oh, and why didn't the Mafia kill night 0?

I seem to recall us missing the deadline. The next night, as I recall, Niv hounded us to get a kill in, since he didn't want another No Kill.

[SensFan]

AP seeded some pretty good craplogic defenses of EA over today. I was going to use that against him.

[SensFan]

des was dieing tonight, no questions asked.

[SensFan]

EA, you probably should have claimed Survivor on the last Day. AP and I immediately would have voted with you on des or MFB.