Mini 570, A Small Town in Italy Mafia, Over

[avinashv]

/confirm

[avinashv]

Normal cops usually don't role block--they have a night inspect ability. This isn't an open game though, so we really have no idea. I would assume some role blocking went on; I can't think of a good reason for scum to not take a kill n0.

[avinashv]

I'm going to

FoS: Guppy

for aforementioned reasons. I'd vote, but I don't know when the votecount was updated, and I am not sure if I want to hammer

right now

. I think it is currently on 5 but I want to be sure.

Mod

I third the request that you keep track of who is voting who, please.

[avinashv]

Unvote (if I am voting), Vote: Ration

I don't think he has posted this game yet, and if he is scum, he is getting away happily lurking in the shadows and letting the attention stay away from him.

[avinashv]

I'm going to

FoS: Guppy

for aforementioned reasons. I'd vote, but I don't know when the votecount was updated, and I am not sure if I want to hammer

right now

.

your actualy considered hammering him?

unvote vote avanashv

Who is "avanashv"? I did consider hammering him, yes. But I didn't.

FoS: Erratus Apathos

for a baseless accusation.

Erratus Apathos, no.

There's plenty to talk about right now. How about you contribute and voice your thoughts on the current ongoings?

I'm not going against an uncountered Cop claim. A counter is the only thing I can see changing my vote.

Do you mean if someone else claims cop? If so, I agree.

Unvote, Vote: Occult

. What are the chances that there is more than one cop in a game this small?

[avinashv]

Ouch, forgot to close the quotes around Ration's name there. Apologies, but I can't edit.

[avinashv]

Is that 7? Can't be bothered to count.

Can someone tell me what the chances are that there is more than 1 cop? I haven't played enough games here to know (I have played a lot of RL mafia).

[avinashv]

Cool. Now we find out if thevampireofdusseldorf is really a cop or not. Here's to hoping we lynched scum.

Awesome Pants, you're right. I'm in several games right now, and haven't seen night yet.

[avinashv]

w00t! Go doctor!

vote: Ration

for reasons I've already mentioned: lurking, avoiding questions totally avoiding bringing anything useful.

[avinashv]

FoS: Prof. Guppy

What's wrong with congratulating the doctor? Assuming that there is one, and assuming that he protected the cop, and assuming the mafia for some reason targeted the cop, I think the doctor did good.

Can't keep track of voting patterns? At that point the mod was keeping track of voting as a tally. Keeping track of voting is the mod's job, not mine. I was the

third

person to vote for a voting count that included names for this very reason.

Very little content? It's not like a lot happened in D1, but I think I made good cases against all my FoS's and against Ration. I voted Occult because the cop wasn't counter-claimed.

This is coming from someone who took a self-vote to get sympathy unvotes and is pushing baseless accusations on me.

Vampire: what is wrong with congratulating the doc?

[avinashv]

How many scum can we expect in such a small game? I'm going to take a gander and say 3, because it seems to me like Guppy is trying to protect his scum-buddy Ration by specifically targeting me for his "PBPA".

[avinashv]

Mafia often do that to vent their frustration at being denied a NK.

Or a townie could do it to voice his praise/excitement.

[avinashv]

Sorry I haven't been active, busy week.

Sykedoc, my vote stays on you. I don't like how you tried to get unvotes from people just because you're replacing in and are willing to not lurk.

[avinashv]

And by asking people to unvote just because you think you're at a disadvantage isn't going to get much sympathy from me. Try to make some analysis of Rations earlier posts (not many, I'll give you that) or provide something valuable to the game and then you might have votes taken away from you.

[avinashv]

MightyFireball: Once I had my vote on Ration, I never took it off because he kept lurking. I agree his replacement is far more active than he is, but isn't doing a great job of keeping off my scumdar. His posts seem very defensive and are trying to focus the attention on Ration. I'm sticking with my vote.

[avinashv]

FoS

Prof. Guppy for what is a very poor reason at attempting to defend skyedoc/Ration. I call that you're scum buddies.

[avinashv]

I'm suspicious of sky firstly for the amount of analysis he tried to do on rations two mighty posts secondly for the amount of bother he went to try and get 2 votes of him and third for having suspicions about Lalmtreasteek (given he might not have read the whole thread but even if he did I have to assume he thinks he might be a godfather).

avinashv: so you think that the other two names given by occult are a scum team?

As for all those that wish to think that there is a great deal of scumminess in these two great posts:

avinashv, you are correct in your thinking of me not posting yet, I will post more when we have more to talk about.

Erratus Apathos, no.

please outline it for me or else I am in support of this

Let's just write him off, and focus solely on Sky's actions.

He was asked direct questions and refused to answer them. It's not just that; I just find (for already highlighted reasons) sky's defense to be a little fishy.

[avinashv]

To be honest, that SCREAMS of Invest-Immune GF...

Agreed.

I'm still waiting to hear from Avin. He seems like the scummiest guy to me right now.

What exactly were you expecting from me? You didn't ask a question or anything.

[avinashv]

No lynching once looks good to me, and I'd like to see skyedoc investigated first.

I am going to go ahead and claim

Town Detective

. I investigated Ration N0 with a guilty result, and Prof. Guppy the next night, also with a guilty result. Ration was picked randomly; Guppy picked because he seemed very mildly scummy D1, and was named by Occult before he was lynched.

As to why I waited so long: honestly, I was worried about not being taken seriously. I wasn't going to claim D1, but the other cop's claim was a serious blow to my case. I initially thought of that as scum, but when the claim turned out to be correct, I figured that maybe there were two cop-roles after all. Furthermore, I also wasn't sure about how best to claim in games on forums; the game is different live, for obvious reasons. My main reason for claiming this particular moment is that Guppy pointed me out as his scummiest player, and I was worried about getting targeted at night, especially with talks of a no-lynch, without the information I have being told to the town.

If you'll go back through my posts, I tried to subtly push towards Ration/Guppy as scum; I even asked a few times what the possibility of two cop-roles was because I was very confused at that claim.

Here's to hoping this doesn't come of as scummy--I see this post either winning us the game right now, or me getting lynched. If the latter happens, investigate either of the two at least one night to confirm.

If I played this right and there are 3 mafia, then town just won. Again, I got a guilty on Ration/skyedoc N0 and Prof. Guppy N1. I can't see how I played this wrong, but if I did, someone, please, explain in a reasonable manner where I messed up and how I should have presented this information--I mean this seriously; even if you think this was scummy, I'd love the advice of a seasoned player.

[avinashv]

killa seven, if you're going to vote, better it be for skyedoc who already has more votes.

At this point it's irrelevant though; assuming there are only 3 mafia, a NL now, my night kill and vamp confirming is game. Or, if enough people believe me straight up, one less day. Whatever.

[avinashv]

This is all assuming vamp isn't SK or something and just got lucky with Occult.

[avinashv]

why are we assumimg there are 3 sum? 2 cops and your thinking there are 3 scum? there is probably 2 anti town groups or one large scum group, and all u guys voting no lynch after a cop claim outa no were is just rediculous.

unvote vote sycdoc

fos vampire

^ and thats a huge fos buddy.

I concur. I know it's been just a short while, but I'd really love to hear from the rest of the town before we nolynch.

[avinashv]

Vamp: Nowhere in my last posts I called you out as SK---what I did say was that there was the possibility. Small one at that; I think less than the chance that you're legit. If you were SK, you may have gotten lucky with calling Occult out. I don't really know.

As for my sanity, well, my role description obviously didn't have anything to do with that, and a paranoid detective may be possible; I did consider it, but I felt it was more important to get this information out.

Anyway, if people felt skyedoc was scummy (or anyone else) before I claimed, then why nolynch now? If you believed he was anti-town, then my claim should only strengthen that; and if I am paranoid, then it shouldn't matter because he's already scum in some people's mind. I just don't think a NL is a good idea at this stage with the possibility of multiple anti-town groups.

MightyFireball---I highlighted pretty well what my choices were; Ration I think was a lucky guess, but Occult did call out Guppy as his scumbuddy. I'm not discounting the fact that I may be paranoid though.

[avinashv]

I've never understood people's problem with the Town qualifier. I'll abstract away from the fact that I was targeting you, Guppy; all I did was directly write my title. It's one thing if I claimed vanilla townie, but I claimed Town Detective because I am a Town Detective and not just a Detective.

[avinashv]

Alright, I like the plan of lynching Guppy and then investigating either vamp or lalm to test my role's sanity.

Unvote, vote: Prof. Guppy

.

I'll test by investigating vamp. If it

does

result in a guilty, then I'm still not 100% sure that my role is insane, because vamp could be playing a good fake here, but I think it's unlikely. The only problem is that I see myself getting NK'd, and so would be unable to let you know my result. Nevertheless, I guess the result of today's lynch should help towards that cause.

If I don't make it through the night and Guppy did turn out to be scum, for obvious reasons lynch skyedoc and then decide on who seems most scummy and investigate after the lynch. After that, for goodness sake, don't NL!

Mod, vote count?

[avinashv]

I don't like Guppy's redundant town-claim, especially since he called me out on the same earlier up this page. He's also tried (and succeeded) at using sympathy to get unvotes towards the start of this game.

Awesome Pants - I only think there might be 4 scum because there are two investigative roles

[avinashv]

I investigated vamp last night, and got a guilty. I guess that nothing if confirms the now-obvious suspicions that I was insane.

Guppy: my bad, bro. I apologize.

[avinashv]

SensFan: "noid"?

[avinashv]

SensFan: yes, I could potentially be paranoid, but I've hit one confirmed townie (Guppy) and one more-or-less confirmed townie (vamp) and gotten guilty both times. Assuming paranoid is going to be 50/50, unless the mod is seriously messing around with us I have to call insane. I think vamp is done tonight, so I'll try and investigate Fox and see if I get a guilty. If I do, then that strong suspicion of insanity becomes confirmed, with 3/3 townies resulting in a guilty.

Ration/skyedoc is unconfirmed, and I'm hesitant to push for that lynch, but honestly, he seems scummiest to me right now. I'm not going to vote this early in the day though.

@vamp--obviously, please post your analysis here ASAP. Any others looking to weigh in right now would be great.

Also, 3 nights and only one NK? Is it safe to assume there's no SK?

[avinashv]

My bad, I confused paranoid and insane. Swap them in that last post and it should make more sense.

[avinashv]

Sorry about the lack of input. Honestly, Llam's kill was a huge hit to town. I agree with SensFan that vamp is not 100% town (he could be bussing I think the term is), but for me, it's good enough. I know that I am paranoid/insane, because I doubt I hit gold on 3 scum. If I did, there's me kicking myself for not pushing it further .

I need to reread, but vamp, thanks for that big summary post.

[avinashv]

I'm not sure about either strategy right now, but if it comes down to it, I will only support a one-by-one claim. We're more likely than losing vamp tonight (unless we have some other really miraculous power role tonight or vamp really is actually scum--I think both are unlikely), and so he should give us as much info as possible---which he is doing.

[avinashv]

It's really not that big a deal skyedoc.

Alright,

unvote, vote: Erratus Apathos

Was I already voting? No VC on this page.

[avinashv]

killa that was not a good move. Elaborate on your views today...now, more like.

[avinashv]

killa? No "information"?

Mod: vote count please

. I have no idea where we are vote-wise, and I didn't want to hammer without giving him a chance to speak.

[avinashv]

@killa: I've already posted that I investigated vamp with a guilty. I agree that we cannot rule out the possibility of vamp being scum, but I feel it's a small enough possibility that it's not worth lynching him. I am in full agreement with SensFan's description of your post, unfortunately.

If you're busy in real life, you're busy in real life. That isn't the problem

right now

. In fact, I waited to vote for that very reason.

unvote, vote: killa seven

[avinashv]

vamp, who are you going to investigate?

[avinashv]

Sorry about my lack of posting; I was entrenched in finals.

I'll second skyedoc goes, but at this point, with a Doc and Cop outed, I can't see this being a useful exercise.

[avinashv]

You're right. I meant to express my agreement that skydoc was a good choice. I still would like some reasoning as to why this is a good point this late in the game.

[avinashv]

Mod

: Could you prod skyedoc please?

[avinashv]

So who are the other masons? And who is your choice for a roleclaim now?

[avinashv]

By the way, I'd like to point out that his claim was very suspicious to me. Why wouldn't he call out the rest of the Masons, asking them to vouch for him? He's come under a

lot

of flak earlier, and no body came to his rescue with a mason claim. It can't be that Masons in this setup can't tell the town, because he just did--if he is, in fact, a mason.

I won't vote because there are a lot of people to go, but this added to what I had on Ration--and despite what you may think skyedoc, I judge you 100% based on what Ration also played like--makes him currently my scummiest player.

[avinashv]

My point was more that skyedoc was under heavy fire and almost at the guillotine earlier. Nevertheless, the flaw with waiting the roleclaims out to see his mason partner is that it is possible there isn't a mason group at all, and this is a great way for him and a scumbuddy to get a free pass.

There

has

to be at least one mason call, otherwise skyedoc is 100% scum, and it'll be interesting for me to see who calls it. I can't give anything away in the interests of making sure the roleclaims are accurate, but I am sure that all the townies have their eye on someone suspicious, that if he/she (are there any females left?) claims mason, will be a big scumtell.

Mod

: Has xxFoxxx replied to any prods? If not, we need a replacement on pretty short notice.

He is reading the prods, but not responding to them, gonna send one more before i activally sytart looking for a rep

- Niv

[avinashv]

@SensFan: That is the biggest problem with this whole thing. I didn't want to mention it, but it's outed now, so I'll comment on it. Even with a mafia roleblocker, I can't see a game this size having two confirmed townies, a legit cop and a doctor either. I loved your use of the word laughable.

@skyedoc: Thank you, it was a great day, and I really enjoyed myself. 21sts only come once a lifetime

@

Mod

: Thanks--weird that he's reading them but not responding.

@Town: Now that we're confirmed that Fox is reading the PM's but not responding, I'd like to put that at as a FoS. Based on that and skyedoc's ridiculous claim, I'd like to

big FoS

: skyedoc and

little FoS

: Fox.

[avinashv]

@skyedoc: if you are in fact mason, you threw the game away for town here. (1) The three back-to-back posts, first two of which were separated by hours reek or desperation. Not only have you played just four games here (the other three of which have no exposed masons till now), but your argument is predicated on a whiney my word against yours. (2) You did not, in fact, directly ask your mason partner to claim

in this open town forum

. You would have immediately been shot down. Even if you were under intense scrutiny--which, you were--you had guaranteed no-lynch safety until everybody had claimed, a strategy that the town agreed to. After having killed that, you (3) go on to call SensFan out about it.

@MightyFireball: I am interested to know why you thought it was a good idea to break the claim-chain. Despite skyedoc's poor play here, you've--and this is if you are actually mason--played a pretty sensible game for the most part. A true mason group should have zero fear at this point, because there was no chance of getting either of you voted without giving you a chance to post defense because of the claim structure.

The other notable thing is that you asked for the town's opinion on this mason situation but didn't wait for it. EA and AP haven't posted since then.

For the record, I do not believe there is a mason group in a setup this small with a cop+doc already outed.

@SensFan: very minor point, but at first glance, the Fireball vote seemed a little opportunistic, but by reading the rest of this, you'll understand why I am not going to push this too hard. This is here for the sake of completeness.

@Erratus Apathos, Awesome Pants, Destructor: please weigh in ASAP. I'd like to hear what you guys think of skyedoc/MightyFireball's mason claim, Fireball claiming out of turn and who your current most likely scum-pair is.

@Town: I vote we continue the chain-claim, beginning at Destructor who's turn it is right now anyway. It has sort of lost it's biggest use, but I'd like to see the last few roles outed.

[avinashv]

EBWOP:

...reek

of

desperation...

[avinashv]

@skyedoc: if you are in fact mason, you threw the game away for town here. (1) The three back-to-back posts, first two of which were separated by hours reek or desperation. Not only have you played just four games here (the other three of which have no exposed masons till now), but your argument is predicated on a whiney my word against yours. (2) You did not, in fact, directly ask your mason partner to claim

in this open town forum

. You would have immediately been shot down. Even if you were under intense scrutiny--which, you were--you had guaranteed no-lynch safety until everybody had claimed, a strategy that the town agreed to. After having killed that, you (3) go on to call SensFan out about it.
.

First off. You have no idea what i play. This isn't my first forum or mafia site in general. There are 100 legitimate strategies you can play from this point if you were thinking about it.

Read what I wrote. I specifically used the word "here".

Second off, if you'd like to kill me and REALLY fuck things up, thats probably not a great idea but go ahead.

Grow up, really. Goes back to what I've already written. I guess I should thank you for reinforcing my argument.

Third, i've been in games where i've avoided claiming miller and then when later on i revealed close to the end of the game, i was believed by no one when it was needed most, so this doesnt necessarily apply to just now. It can happen regardless of when i claim i could be distrusted, even if it was the perfect or not perfect time to claim.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here, but the general gist of it seems to be that "I've claimed miller before, nobody believed me even though I was actually miller, so you had better believe I'm mason now."

Third, i've been studying and i was hardly aware of the no-lynch safety else i wouldn't have claimed... I've been under alot of stress the past few days so excuse me if i missed something.

Not only is that completely NOT what I was talking about, but you yourself claimed, then asked Fox to claim after you.

Foruth, i wasn't exactly calling him out on the fact that he pointed it out, he was kindof a dick about it.

Meh, I don't think he was being a dick. He definitely wasn't the one double and triple-posting and swearing, pointing fingers and making sweeping allegations about the town.

Fifth, I did ask him, asking someone to do something does not have to end with a question mark...

Again, you didn't read what I wrote: "directly".

Sixth, are we still forgetting about the claim i requested from fox, who has been replaced and his replacement still isn't answering? He could be waiting for you to lynch me.

No, not at all. Case in point:

@Erratus Apathos, Awesome Pants, Destructor: please weigh in ASAP. I'd like to hear what you guys think of skyedoc/MightyFireball's mason claim, Fireball claiming out of turn and who your current most likely scum-pair is.

@Town: I vote we continue the chain-claim, beginning at Destructor who's turn it is right now anyway. It has sort of lost it's biggest use, but I'd like to see the last few roles outed.

Are you trying to push the blame away from yourself? Or, wait, let me guess: you missed it? Did you even know that it was Destructor who replaced in? If you don't have time to post, let us know it will take you 2 days to properly formulate a response; however, I don't believe that this is only to do with exams. Not paying attention and redirecting blame are patterns that you have exhibited since you replaced into this game.

Go back and reread my post, and most of your ridiculous insinuations will be answered. If you have any legitimate defense, now would be the time to post it.

@town: I'll

remove FoS: Fox

for the moment. I'll also say that I'm only waiting for the rest of the town and the chain-claim to finish before I vote skyedoc, and unless something big happens between then, I am pretty confident that he is the best vote.

[avinashv]

@destructor: Thanks for replacing in this late. For the record, I'd rather wait until you've read everything before you--or someone else--makes judgements on how you should play this. I am 100% in agreement with SensFan that you receive no advice on who to choose next. What little this chain has gone through was done like that, and it should stay that way.

av, can you clarify what you're saying here? I don't really understand.

Sure. We were chain-mass claiming. Instead of following what the town as a majority--and might I add, I was not part of that--was going along with, skyedoc "directly" asked the other mason partner to claim. Had he made it blatant, or asked the town whether he could break the claim structure, he would have been told a very blatant no. By sticking with the chain-claim strategy, you get a bit more information on each person because they are isolated and have a specific slot to go on, decided by the person who already claimed.

As for the no-lynch safety: well, if I thought skyedoc was scum, I would still wait till

everyone

had claimed and some discussion had been done about it. Essentially, someone could say whatever they want (don't stretch this beyond reason ) and still be lynch safe till after the claim. He had plenty of time to talk about it with MightyFireball--if, in fact, they are mason buddies.

I'm unsure of whether or not you understood the question. In your role PM, is there anything that indicates whether MF is unquestionably town? If not, can you ask our mod about this and let us know what he says?

That is actually a very valid question; I've been essentially confirmed (by word of a now-dead cop and investigations I made) as an insane/paranoid detective. Given that there was already a sane cop and doctor, I wouldn't be surprised if the role PMs were cryptic enough to give no information about the alignment of the masons.

I've got my chief suspects, and I'm willing to wait out the time it will take you to read. Hopefully some of the other members of the town will weigh in on current events while you do that.

[avinashv]

I think it would have been better for him to name me as the person to claim next so that I could validate his claim in the traditional fashion.

QFT. Unfortunately, it did not happen, putting a lot of scrutiny on you.

and we're not allowed to talk during the day.

Touché. That did not occur to me.

If they really are masons, I think there's a strong possibility that one of them are scum which I've seen if a few games before.

Agreed--in other games, what is the best way to tackle this situation?

Vote: destructor

No. Vamp confirmed him innocent. There is obviously the very real possibility that he is Godfather; Fox wasn't playing that well either. I still feel that a vote right now is premature before all the roles are out.

A mislynch now puts us at LyLo tomorrow, so we have to be extremely careful.

[avinashv]

EBWOP: "in other games, what

was

the best way to tackle this situation"

[avinashv]

Sorry, laptop died. Back now.

I'm not happy about a MightyFireball lynch at the moment. I agree with destructor about the sudden out-of-supposed-alignment roleclaim that was EA's bulletproof. Skyedoc was further suspicious calling this game "typical"--and hey, I'm an insane cop. Mod already pulled the bastard card!

Thanks to Niv for clarifying that. Further suspicion on skyedoc for trying to avoid roleclaiming properly--a lot of suspicion has been negated by the exact role names that have been given several times in this game.

SensFan came off as quite aggressive today, which to me seemed a little out of character. Don't know quite what to make of the Sens v. destructor.

Going to hold off a vote until skyedoc properly answers the town's request.

[avinashv]

You're right, that wasn't nearly as clear as it read in my head. I meant that it seemed out of the character you have thus far crafted yourself and out of the alignment destructor and I had given you in our heads.

We don't have a day vig (or, we don't as far as the town knows) so we can't test, and we can't really afford a mislynch at this point in time, so there's really no way to test your claim.

If it helps, I won't advocate an EA lynch today, unless some new revelations occur.

[avinashv]

Mod: VC pleace

.

I have to do some re-reading. An AP lynch doesn't--at this point--sound like a good idea to me. Like I said, I'll reread. Back in a few.

[avinashv]

@destructor: The only reason I haven't voted you yet is because Fox got an all clear from vamp. I'm not discounting a godfather. I'd like to point out some major flaws in your arguments; specifically your PBPA:

Post 176, sykedoc is still crying "woe is me" and that's not all. He's outright strawmanning the votes against him. His play has been called into question but he continues to push the argument back to Ration's two posts. Not looking good.

I am very certain there is scum in {avinashv, MightyFireball, sykedoc}.

AP was criticising sykedoc's lack of contribution when he himself had posted little in way of content.

(out of order, by the way)

You then go on to say:

With this in mind, I find it unlikely that syke is scum, unless, of course, he and MF are actually scum who've fake-claimed mason.

In the following posts, you seem to have discounted skyedoc as a lynch candidate altogether. AP lurked almost as badly as Ration did D1; but he at least put forth some content--you happen to agree with it. Why discount skyedoc? I think the mason claim, even if it genuine, still leaves skyedoc pretty scummy.

I'll agree about SensFan.

avinashv claimed "Town Detective" and now MF has claimed "Town Mason". Neither vamp nor lalmtreasteek's roles came out with the "Town" prefix and they were both powerroles. I think an avinashv or MF lynch would be very informative at this point.

Vamp brought this to attention right after I claimed. Skyedoc/MF using this could be part of a gambit they now know is part of Niv's role PMs. You did bring this up.

I'll happily admit that I agree with the majority of what you've said about AP, your logic just seems to conveniently target AP and discounts others. Who do you think the scumpair is? I'm willing to give you the BoD given the reading you had to catch up with.

@skyedoc/MF: who do you think the scumpair is? How confident are you that your mason partner is actually town--given the role PM or scumhunting or whatever?

[avinashv]

I figured it was obvious; but to retort: why?

[avinashv]

@destructor: The flaw I am pointing out is that you yourself present pretty compelling evidence against skyedoc, but are, as AP points out, pretty rashly conclude that he is innocent.

You've said (and I quote), "a Cop+Doc+Masons town IS very powerful...the town is way overpowered. I'm near 100% certain that at least one of the claimed powerroles is scum" (#454). You've also said you're fairly certain that I am town; we known the Cop and Doc were town now. That leaves the BPT and the Masons. I've got a fairly town read from EA thus far--roleclaim not included, as I've already mentioned--and while it may just be great scum play on his part, the masons have been reasonably scummy. On top of that, Skyedoc seems to be refusing to answer any questions directed at him, and it isn't like he hasn't logged on here since he was asked a few days ago.

So--why AP? Why not either of the masons? Which power-role do you think is scum?

@Skyedoc/MightyFireball: still haven't answered my questions.

@AP: "we should lynch either him or MF depending on his response." (#473) reads

very

opportunistic to me. Also, the pot calling the kettle black fiasco has risen again--I can say that you've come out of silence now that the pressure is on you.

Meta is important: I've been in several games here, but I started them all at the same time and got caught up in them. The one thing that was consistently good play from members in the other games was meta--everybody has tells.

You make a good point about EA; something I'll admit I did not consider.

@EA: Did you get a notification or something that someone tried to kill you? I can't imagine why you wouldn't have mentioned it if you had, though. Why do you not think one of the masons/anybody else is a better lynch than AP?

@town: Cop+Insane Cop+Masons+Doc+BPT is a pretty hard sell. If it is true, I'd guess we're dealing with a Godfather. What do you think the chances are of destructor being a Godfather?

I should add that I'm playing devil's advocate here--recent re-reads and his last post show me that AP does have scummy tendencies; I'm just trying to get a better read on everybody else. I just want to know why the masons seem to have gone scot-free.

@

mod:

vote count

and some prods please @ SensFan, MightyFireball

.

[avinashv]

@destructor:

because I noticed behaviour from syke a few times where he makes an obvious reference to MF. I can dig those posts up if you want.

Please clarify what exactly you meant here, and yeah, dig!

I don't see why you guys are seeing the lack of nightkill N0 as a point for EA. It's entirely possible that the kill was stopped by Doc protection.

Agreed--however, I'm not discounting that he as targeted. As the doc never claimed and let us know who he protected N0 (the game would have swung

majorly

in the favor of the town at that point), we don't know for sure. Hell, lalm may have protected EA, and EA may have seen that as an opportunity to claim bulletproof. There's at least a shred of reasoning as to why that may be feasible.

I agree that a deadline extension is a good idea. We haven't gotten a prod to a few players, and there's only really activity between the three of us at this point. EA has stepped in, but that's about it. There's a lot more to hear and I have a lot of unanswered questions.

@Awesome Pants:

Opportunistic? How? I find both MF and Skye the scummiest right now, so they're my obvious choices to lynch.

Because it's opportunistic to pick on someone who is admittedly scummy, try lead the town to a lynch and then say right after that you think (quoting) " I don't find anyone else too innocent " (#473).

You're basing your reasons solely on setup speculation. I've been known to agree with other people's reasons on other things, so if you agree with me on certain points about why any member of the town is scummy, which points? What is scummy about myself (cleared by

many

members of the town), SensFan and destructor?

Again @town: Most likely scumpairs + read all other questions I had specifically for players.

Mod: seconded on deadline extension

[avinashv]

@Mod: thanks for the deadline extension.

@MightyFireball:

I quote myself.

@skyedoc/MF: who do you think the scumpair is?

Please answer.

I would like to say that since his replacement in, destructor has played a very logical game and has brought up several valid points. This, combined with the innocent investigation that was gathered on his counterpart, Fox, leads me to believe that he is almost certainly innocent. Other than that, I don't have any town-reads on anyone else.

You most definitely don't have to be town to be "logical" or to make "valid points". One may argue that scum make more seemingly logical points because they have more information. Again, I quote myself:

@town: Cop+Insane Cop+Masons+Doc+BPT is a pretty hard sell. If it is true, I'd guess we're dealing with a Godfather. What do you think the chances are of destructor being a Godfather?

If so (or not), why?

As has been mentioned, I'm a little suspicious of SensFan for his rather aggressive posting. However, this is necessary in scum hunting and it's probably my OMGUS subconscious talking, since his aggressive posting was largely against me.

What about his lack of real input today?

I believe I was asked how sure I was that Sykedoc is town. I'd put it at about 60% sure.

Where does that number come from, and why?

@SensFan: I've had a bunch of questions targeted at you specifically, and some at the town. When you've settled in, please answer them.

[avinashv]

@MightyFireball: on second read my last post sounds very cold--that wasn't intentional.

[avinashv]

Also at this point, I'll cast my vote.

Vote: skyedoc

.

A variety of reasons, the majority of which I've made pretty clear. I think the most likely scumpair is skyedoc/AP, although I get scummy vibes from everybody but EA and no read at all on SensFan.

skyedoc replaced for a scummy player, didn't play a good game, lurks frequently, has avoided questions all game like the plague, and I'm not sure if my role is paranoid or insane, but I did get a guilty on him.

The big issue right now is that the town is pretty divided about scum--that's why I've been asking for scumpairs. Maybe we should discuss picking the common denominator in the scumpairs? I don't know if that is the best idea, but is worth some discussion. A mislynch at this point is LyLo tomorrow, so we're in trouble if we don't think this one through.

[avinashv]

@SensFan:

I have trouble believing you can have absolutely no read on a player with over 45 posts.

Are you trying to look scummy? That most definitely did. The direct lack of attention to the many questions towards you also did.

@MightyFireball:

I'm of the opinion that a good town player is more likely to be logical and make valid points than is a good scum player. The reason for this is that the main objective of a town player is to find scum, which is usually done by picking up on the mistakes of other players and then using that information to draw valid conclusions, which I feel that destructor has done to a good extent so far. The main objective of a scum player is to remain unsuspected by the town and thus survive to another night. This does not require the logic that being a good town player does.

Fair enough, this is opinion and all based on the games we each have played, which are obviously different. We'll see how this factors in tomorrow.

If I had to venture a guess, I'd go with Sensfan and EA. However, this is because they are the two that I find most scummy, not because I see any kind of connection between them.

Double-checking: you said EA played a solid game, so this is because of that claim?

Also, he hasn't been particularly active as a mason in terms of talking to me.

Thank you for bringing that to the town's attention; it makes me a lot happier with my vote. To continue down this same thread: did major events like the Cop claim, my detective claim or the death of cop/doctor affect his communication with you in any conceivable way?

[avinashv]

@skyedoc: Well, we're essentially waiting on you now--at least, I am.

@SensFan: You still haven't answered my questions. Also, why are you voting for destructor?

@Town: I think because of the impending deadline and skyedoc's real lack of communication, I am game for an AP lynch--if we're wrong, then I'll do some re-evaluation, though I think my LyLo candidate will be skyedoc.

I don't want to put him on L-1 right now, but a little closer to the deadline, I'll do it.

[avinashv]

I think the eagerness of everyone to jump on my bandwagon pretty much confirms that I'm town.

No. Not. At. All. Saying things like that actually makes you look far, far scummier.

Today we should lynch MF

Why not skye?

Having said that, I think it's possible that des is in a godfather like role. His unwillingness to claim earlier evidences this.

Agreed, but gut feeling says he's probably town. You seem in agreement.

I will actually take back that I want to lynch you today; based on a point you unadvertedly bought up: I think we should lynch one of the Masons. We seem in agreement that there is a chance of a scum mason. On top of that, as AP points out, we have to consider that they were talking crap to begin with.

So, at this point, I'm happy with my vote. A quick re-read showed me this skyedoc quote, which makes me pretty confident that he is scum:

Also am i wrong in assuming a setup of this size has a mason by default?

[avinashv]

If it's a 4 person group, then we're already at LyLo. I assume the mod would let us know--I've not gotten to LyLo in any other game I'm alive in, but doesn't it automatically go into the title?

Furthermore, SensFan and skyedoc haven't posted their opinion of you -today-. Your argument fails again, and that's yet another strike against you. I advise you let this go.

Can you please clarify your final two sentences?

[avinashv]

Mod: can you please clarify if we are in LyLo?

The end is not so near, however the days are winding down

- Niv

[avinashv]

Mod: can you please clarify if we are in LyLo?

The end is not so near, however the days are winding down

- Niv

That was pretty unhelpful, but I'm going to take "not so near" as that we're not in LyLo.

@town: What is the chance of just *one* more mafia; most likely a GF? I am not familiar with closed setup games like this: could two powerrole mafias be enough for a 12 mini?

[avinashv]

Big FoS: SensFan

.

He hasn't replied to any direct questions, and has been lurking like no other. Quick meta shows that he has been extremely active over the last 5 days elsewhere on MS.

His lack of response makes him a major scum candidate to me now. His playstyle has been pretty poor--lots of little posts with very little real content.

@

Mod

Major prods please.

[avinashv]

Again @town: Most likely scumpairs + read all other questions I had specifically for players.

@town: Cop+Insane Cop+Masons+Doc+BPT is a pretty hard sell. If it is true, I'd guess we're dealing with a Godfather. What do you think the chances are of destructor being a Godfather?

I apologize for saying I had a direct question: it was a response to something we were discussing earlier. I'd still like answers for the above, though you've made the second one pretty clear.

Throwing in a 1-liner like that certainly isn't going to fly. What the Hell is wrong with me doubting that someone has no read on me at all, when I have over 45 posts.

And throwing a one-liner like that isn't going to fly? You look scummy as hell from where I am standing. Your 45 posts are almost all just a few words. You've lurked incessantly, posted very little real value in the game, and haven't done a great deal of productive scum-hunting.

Meh, I forgot I was alive. As soon as I was prodded, I posted.

I know I'm not cutting you much slack here, but we're nearing endgame--I unfortunately have trouble buying that excuse; and if I could bring myself to do so, the fact that you thought you were dead just sets off my scumdar as if you were expecting it. It all has to do with the fact that you were very active elsewhere on MS. Like I said, not a lot of slack, especially since you have no real defense here. For the sake of completeness, I guess.

I know it seems shaky, but, looking back, that's all I can come up with.

At the very least, thank you for being honest. In my eyes that is probably the most pro-town thing you've said all game.

That's the part I disagree with.

Agreed; read on.

That's a good catch. But I'm not sure if syke is just being sloppy.

I'm pretty confident there's a scumpair in {skyedoc, SensFan, AP} at this point. MF/EA are playing a clean game for the most part, and I think it's MF the one being sloppy.

As for you; well, vamp cleared you, and I've voiced by GF concerns several times, but for the most part I've gotten a town read on your pretty good scum-hunting. The one negative thing against you is what SensFan is raving about--if a mass claim is happening, you should have claimed with no hesitance. Especially if all you had was vanilla.

Upon my reread, what I had originally taken to be aggressive scumhunting looked more like a blatant attack on Destructor with very slim evidence to back it up.

One of the least likely scumpairs to me is Destructor/SensFan; the reason I'm letting destructor go on what I think isn't slim evidence on Sens' part is because overall, Sens is scummier to me. I think that was a blatant attack aimed to look like scum hunting based on a huge error on destructor's part.

[avinashv]

...then it might be a scum trying to make a case against a townie.

Most likely scumpairs (from line 1 of #521)?

[avinashv]

Come on skyedoc, you can answer at least the role question.

[avinashv]

Damn. Good effort town!