Mini 570, A Small Town in Italy Mafia, Over

[Awesome Pants]

vote: MikeyDaMan

because he's 8th from the top!

[Awesome Pants]

Wow, what a hectic start. We all seem to be arguing about random voting, I've always just assumed that it's a good way to get discussion happening but then again, I haven't seen a baseless accusation so early in the day!

Anyway, it seems obvious that hammering so early into the day probably isn't the best town orrientated strategy, nor is self voting.. the only thing it ever seems to do is bring up cries of WIFOM later on in the game which always hurt my head.

[Awesome Pants]

Wow, that's the shortest and most sucessful day one I've ever been in.

[Awesome Pants]

I wonder if there's someone stopping them from killing them, or perhaps they're just lazy/inactive. It's very weird that they wouldn't make the free kill on the first night and then possibly target the cop, knowing full well he'd be protected by his doc buddy.

[Awesome Pants]

A no lynch would give the scum a bigger chance to hit the doc, I'm betting that they'll try and pick off any confirmed town members. However, we'll also get info regarding someone's alignment so I guess it could be worth it.

[Awesome Pants]

........How would a no lynch give the scum a better chance to hit the doc?
If we lynch scum (presuming there are 3 mafia) the mafia still have the same chance of hitting doc, but if we lynch a townie we narrow down the possibilities for the scum.
And if we put scum (or the doc) close to lynch they will obviously claim doc and who would lynch them then and would the real doc claim (I think not) as that would give the mafia their nk.
We risk a whole lot less with a no lynch than a lynch.

I guess so, I was just thinking that without lynching we'll be basically trading an investigation for the life of a confirmed townie and won't get much info out of the day. Of course, I guess you'll eventualy hit scum but with the numbers of people left so high the scum could very well manage to get lucky and take out the doc and you before you manage to get a guilty investigation.

Basically, I think that you should base your investigations around any info we have, rather than doing it systematically or randomly and therefore having a longer day today might be a good idea. Whether we get enough info to decide on a lynch today is another issue, but I don't think we should completly rule out the idea of a lynch or else the discussion might not to tend to flow as easily, and any info we get probably won't be of terrible use.

[Awesome Pants]

To me, Ration's posts on their own don't seem too bad. It concerns me a little that sykedoc keeps defending himself as though he's being voted for because of Ration's posts, and that he hasn't really contributed much himself.

To get a bit of content flowing;

skyedoc: who do you think is the most scummy right now?

[Awesome Pants]

To me, Ration's posts on their own don't seem too bad.

It concerns me a little that sykedoc keeps defending himself as though he's being voted for because of Ration's posts

, and that he hasn't really contributed much himself.

Apologies for the doubleposting but i figured this should be addressed as well.
In my opinion, you would be wrong here. Technically I AM being voted for because of Ration's posts. I'll show you EXACTLY what i mean.

Yes, the original votes on you were because of Ration, but now they're not just because of him but rather the way in which you asked for the votes to be removed and the stuff you said about Ration. In particular, the bit how you said:

As far as i've seen, he was being not so helpful, dodgey, etc.
It looks like he was treating the game as a side thing, and just ignoring it unless he was going to be lynched.

seems a bit weird for me, when you consider he only made two posts. However, if you take into account that you know his alignment and and that you could potentially start to assume the motives behind what he said, your comment makes sense if you are indeed scum.

I might be reading too much into this though, I imagine it must be hard to replace into a game with a bit of heat on you for practically no reason apart from lurking.

[Awesome Pants]

So basically Fox, your plan is to lynch two of the people named by Occult in the hope that one is scum? As vamp already said, steek has been proved innocent.. does this mean that you believe Guppy and Ration are scum purely based on Occult's post?

My thoughts on it are that he could be right, but it's probably not worth lynching people based on that post alone. I think that if he is scum, his plan could possibly be to lynch one of them today, NK someone else in the hope that they're the doc, be surprised when the lynchee turns up town the next day and claim that the other person left *must* be scum, and advocate their lynch. Then, if he somehow managed to convince everyone to lynch that person he'd have another shot at hitting the doc (if the doc wasn't killed the night before, in which case he did he'd have a free shot at vamp.) and we'd be at day 4 with four less townies.

vote:xXFoxXx

[Awesome Pants]

As has been said in two of the three posts above yours, Steek has already had a innocent verdict from vamp, which according to your theory means that there's a 'highly probably' chance that both skyedoc and guppy are scum? Do you still think that they're both likely to be scum, just one of them or neither? If just one, who do you think is the most likely?

[Awesome Pants]

Oh, ok. This quote of yours through me off:

It gives us a probable 1 in 3 chance of a quick scum lynch, and a 2 in 3 chance of identifying/lynching a scummy.

For what it's worth, I still don't think it's the best plan but it does have a small amount of credit. I'll

unvote

for now.

Fox: Out of Guppy and Skedoc who would you rather lynch today? If we decided to follow your theory, do you think it would be better to no lynch today, get vamp's investigation on guppy/skyedoc and lynch whoever turned up guilty or whoever didn't get a innocent result? Or if we got an innocent result the first night, no lynch again and investigate the other so we don't lynch any townies?

[Awesome Pants]

'm here, but it's coming up to the end of term so I'm a bit busy with study. I'll try and contribute a bit but it's unlikely to be very much for the next week or so.

I'll test by investigating vamp. If it does result in a guilty, then I'm still not 100% sure that my role is insane, because vamp could be playing a good fake here, but I think it's unlikely. The only problem is that I see myself getting NK'd, and so would be unable to let you know my result. Nevertheless, I guess the result of today's lynch should help towards that cause.

This post irks me a bit, do you really think that there could be four scum?

I'm thinking that you could be a GF given you not minding the prospect of being investigated by vamp. I find it really unlikely that you just happened to investigate two of the three people Occult named and that there really is two investigative roles in this game.

The way I see it, you claim cop, say you have guilty on two people then push for one of their lynches. When one of them gets lynched and turns up town you claim insanity and by that stage vamp has probably investigated you and found you innocent. From there you get to ride out the game as a 'confirmed' power role townie, but you don't actually have anything to show from your power role. You'll never get lynched and you can claim that the scum don't NK you for WIFOM reasons.

In my mind it seems like a good a plan if you are the GF. If you really are a cop then I'm sorry, but I find the circumstances you're in pretty unlikely for them to be true.

[Awesome Pants]

To me, Ration's posts on their own don't seem too bad. It concerns me a little that sykedoc keeps defending himself as though he's being voted for because of Ration's posts, and that he hasn't really contributed much himself.

To get a bit of content flowing;

skyedoc: who do you think is the most scummy right now?

This is what jumps out at ne as a scum. Awsome pants pushs suspision to Syke for not contibuting to the Scmhunting, when Awesome hasn't yet even done it himself. further more he's suports the syke wgon without getting onit himself.

I'm not sure what you find so bad about that, that basically

is

how I scum hunt. I ask questions and analyse people's responses. Obviously, someone in the uniformed majority will be able to answer truthfully and with ease, whereas someone in the informed minority will potentially lie and try and decieve the rest of the people.

Apologies for the doubleposting but i figured this should be addressed as well.
In my opinion, you would be wrong here. Technically I AM being voted for because of Ration's posts. I'll show you EXACTLY what i mean.

Yes, the original votes on you were because of Ration, but now they're not just because of him but rather the way in which you asked for the votes to be removed and the stuff you said about Ration. In particular, the bit how you said:

As far as i've seen, he was being not so helpful, dodgey, etc.
It looks like he was treating the game as a side thing, and just ignoring it unless he was going to be lynched.

seems a bit weird for me, when you consider he only made two posts. However, if you take into account that you know his alignment and and that you could potentially start to assume the motives behind what he said, your comment makes sense if you are indeed scum.

I might be reading too much into this though, I imagine it must be hard to replace into a game with a bit of heat on you for practically no reason apart from lurking.

Stonger suport of the bandwago, but still, he dosen't get on it, Then, at the end, he gives Syke a weak excuse for the very things he's accusing him off.[/quote]

I guess you could say that I'm still hunting in this post. Unfortunately, he didn't really respond to that post with his opinion but that was what I was aiming for.

To elaborate on the points I made, I've replaced into games and when you know the alignment of the person you're replacing, you tend to jump to conclusion about the motives behind their posts. I thought that possibly he had done this and sort of subconsciously put that across in his posts about how Ration was so dodgy and unhelpful. That said, I've also seen situations where the replacement really has come into a situation where the person they're replacing has a crappy playstyle, and yes, it can be hard to justify motives behind their posts.

I find it interesting the last point you made about giving a 'weak reason for the very things I'm accusing him of'. As I said before, I've replaced into games before so I don't really think it's weak, but I'm still interested to know why you're pointing it out? Why isn't it in our best interests to do that? I've noticed that bandwagons seem to form quite fast in this game, and I didn't want that to happen, so I don't get why you made such a point of pointing it out. Are you trying to allude to saying that me and him are scum buddies??

Oh, and

SensFan

: You seem awfully eager to jump on a bandwagon without much explanation. I'd be interested to know what your thoughts about Erratus Apathos, considering that your vote on me seems to have stemmed from his post. Do you believe that he is town?

[Awesome Pants]

Then, Why werent you oing that, On Day 1? and on Day 2 you limmited your questoins to Syke, and fox, Why?

I found them the scummiest from their comments. skye was constantly saying that the person he had replaced was dodgy, which I still find weird and Fox for wanting to lynch the two people Occult named on that merit alone. I would've liked to asked more people questions, but RL time has been running a bit low and I just haven't had the chance to do much - you'll just have to take my word for that but you can see through all my other games that I haven't been posting much either. Although, for what it's worth I also wrote a bit about avinashv but didn't get much of a reply.

True that replacments can geuss why there predesessers did what they did, But it isnt helpful to town. Have you ever herd of someone replace a scum, And then say The guy i replaxed did all that becuase he was scum? No scum are just going give the same reasins as they would if they was town. Theres not any thing that can be learnt from it.

Haha, that's not quite what I'm saying. My point is that he seemed to apologize on behalf of Ration an awful lot for nothing much. It could be that he thought that Ration wasn't coming off in a good light and then tried to salvage his status saying that Ration was really dodgy and implying that he isn't. This'd be a bit better if Ration had made some dodgy posts, but he only made two posts in this game, neither with any content so it seems a bit scummy.

I'm poining it out, Because its counter intuative to ask someone a question, and then give them the ansewr. especialy when you say that is how you hunt scum. I didn't think about you and syke being scumbudies, but it dose explain why you would do that, Howeber i find one sided conections to be wifom when use againts the player who isn't making the conection.

You're sorta putting words into my mouth here. I said 'I might be reading too much into this though, I imagine it must be hard to replace into a game with a bit of heat on you for practically no reason apart from lurking', I hardly think this is giving an answer for my points about him calling Ration dodgy.

[Awesome Pants]

WTF is it with people building cases on people I have got innocent investigation results from. I will try and catch up on things before monday.

Until you're a Mod-Confirmed SuperCop, your investigations are by no means true.

He's been right two times now, I think that's as good as we're gonna get. What are you trying to imply?

Oh, and I'm going away tonight and won't be back for about 48 hours.

[Awesome Pants]

vote: killa seven

The 'if vamp is here tomorrow he's def scum' gambit is really scummy, along with the fact that he's strongly considering vamp to be scum when he's gotten one scum lynch (a RB no less..) and a confirmed investigation on an innocent. If by some miraculous feat vamp is here tomorrow then I think we'll be playing right into the scum's hands if we lynch him.

[Awesome Pants]

Well at this stage to make it harder for the scum to claim it'd be better for someone without a power role to claim first so I'll go.

I'm a generic townie.

If I get to choose the next person to claim, I'd like sykedoc to go.

[Awesome Pants]

Yep, I'm here. Waiting for skyedoc's claim. He's posted on site a couple of times since I asked for his claim so it seems a bit strange he's avoiding something as simple as a claim..

[Awesome Pants]

Sorry for not having posted much lately, been having computer troubles.

As for Fireball and skye's claimed masonry, holistically, I think it's a pretty good claim for a pair of scum. As already mentioned, I think the town seems pretty overpowered with a doc/cop pair, even if there was a RBer so to me it does seem a tad far fetched that there would be a pair of masons too. If they really are masons, I think there's a strong possibility that one of them are scum which I've seen if a few games before.

Personally i would think it stupid if MightyFireball, who wasn't suspected at all, came out to defend me if he was Mafia. Theres no point in blowing such good status IMO. Thats what i think about most of you pointing fingers.

Really though, if he is scum and you are town, claiming mason with you wouldn't be such a bad idea. You certainly do seem like the one of the pair under the most fire, so if you got lynched and flipped mason then he'd be almost confirmed.

[Awesome Pants]

Err, if either of you had been reading you'd have noticed that I was the one that lead the claims. Pick again.

[Awesome Pants]

I hate to be a party pooper, but unless the scum have magical powers I can't see how we could have a cop, detective, doctor masons, and a bullet proof in the one game. Assuming the set up isn't horribly unbalanced, I really do think the most probable solution is one/both of the masons being scum.

Skye:

When he replaces in, asks if the votes on him that were previously on Ration can be removed. I find this slightly scummy, and he makes lots of references of how Ration was really dodgy and unhelpful when in fact Ration only made the one post which had no content at all.. this seems to me like he could be trying to cover up the apparent (there really wasn't that much) suspicion on him by blaming it on Ration being a bad person.

Then, up until the claim there isn't much to comment on. He seems to post a lot but not add a lot of content (yeah yeah des, pot calling kettle.. i'm working on it ).

When he does claim, and is somewhat doubted he posts a series of frantic posts claiming that he really is mason and if we lynch him we'll really be 'fucked up' tomorrow. Also makes threats to people that are doubting him, saying if they do lynch him they'll be the first to go the next day. Either he's a mason who believes that he should stay alive forever or mafia trying to stay alive via threats and lots of frantic posting. I'm leaning towards the latter.

Fireball:

Starts off the game by voting Occult (a possible distancing strategy?) and then when vamp claims his results, unvotes and votes him again. I find this weird because obviously he was already voting for Occult, so I'm thinking that he could've voted again to make everyone know that he was on the bandwagon and therefore appear pro town.

Then in his next post, he says this:

I suppose it is possible that vampire could be pulling off an elaborate scum plot in which he claims cop with a guilty result on one of his partners. We then lynch his partner, securing him favor with the town as a confirmed cop. Then, the scum don't night-kill anyone night two, and then vampire can claim that he was protected by the doctor, further securing his position with the town. The scum can then sacrifice themselves, riding his position to a win. I haven't seen any evidence of this, and I don't necessarily believe it myself, but it's something to keep in mind.

and seems to try to throw suspicion onto the cop and even suggest that he could be scum. I think this is a pretty horrible theory as it's really unlikely that the scum wouldn't have killed anyone n1 (they were a member down). He later withdraws it when someone suggests that if it were the case a real cop would counterclaim. Again he seems to withdraw too quickly, when he could've made the argument that they realised given their roles that there wasn't a cop or something, but he appears to not want to stay in the limelight.

Avinashv, it is possible that sykedoc and his scum buddy are trying to get a free pass on the mason group thing, but if there actually is a mason group, they'll out sykedoc (and his partner, should he claim as well). I think it'd be too risky of a strategy to employ in a game of this size, where there is a legitimate possibility of a mason group. I'd like to hear the opinions of others on this matter, however.

Sykedoc, were you referring to me or Avinashv when you said that it was a horrible strategy?

I find this post really quite strange, he throws suspicion onto his mason partner and even seems to imply that he's scum, but then says its probably too risky a chance for both scum to claim mason because if there really were a mason group they'd counter. Well yes, but masons don't always appear in mini games and if you looked at the roles already confirmed it wouldn't be hard to assume that masons further overpower the town so there probably wouldn't be any and it'd be a safe claim. I think that he saw skye under pressure and didn't want to implicate himself by also fake claiming mason, because obviously if we lynched one mason and they were scum it'd be better to go after the next one tomorrow.

So yeah,

vote: MightFireball

big

FoS

: Skyedoc.

[Awesome Pants]

I'm keen to hear from skyedoc, and depending on what he says we should lynch either him or MF depending on his response. As an aside, I find it suspicious that they've both fallen silent as soon as there's pressure on them.

I posted it before, but I think that one of the masons are most definitely scum based purely on setup speculation. Other than that, I don't find anyone else too innocent except maybe EA mainly because of his good and concistant playstyle and the fact that there was no mafia kill n0 (I'm guessing scum targeted him).

des

: what made you jump to the conclusion that the masons are innocent? It seems rather rash. Also you talk about my play in the newbie game we played together and say that my play reminds you a lot of my play then when I was scum.. can you elaborate a bit on this? Further, could you not be seeing similarities because I'm simply the same player rather than because I'm scum? I'm not totally up with meta arguments but I imagine if everyone played totally different when they were scum and town it'd make games go very quickly. :S

[Awesome Pants]

"we should lynch either him or MF depending on his response." (#473) reads very opportunistic to me.

Opportunistic? How? I find both MF and Skye the scummiest right now, so they're my obvious choices to lynch.

Meta is important: I've been in several games here, but I started them all at the same time and got caught up in them. The one thing that was consistently good play from members in the other games was meta--everybody has tells.

Yes, but my point is that he's only ever played in the one meta game where I was scum. I think that he's just seeing "tells" that I am in fact AP and not someone who's drugged me, locked me in a basement and is using my account for reasons unknown (which, by the way, is a useful skill to have!).

[Awesome Pants]

But my point is that I do lurk a bit regardless of alignment. I don't think I've had more than 50 posts in a game yet which demonstrates this.

As far as my activity picking up recently goes, my Newbie 577 game finished recently and I've had a recent decline of assignments which is really awesome.

Read into it what you will, but lynching me for lurking earlier in the game is

not

in the town's interests.

[Awesome Pants]

I think the eagerness of everyone to jump on my bandwagon pretty much confirms that I'm town. The only person that can really justify voting me at this stage is EA who was on my case before the bandwagon started even though he was a bit misguided.

Today we should lynch MF and if he turns up town, choose from Sens, skye, des and avinashv otherwise we'll obviously lynch skye for the win. I'm leaning town on des and avianashv purely because des got an innocent and avinashv claimed town detective, in pattern with vamp's claim. Having said that, I think it's possible that des is in a godfather like role. His unwillingness to claim earlier evidences this.

[Awesome Pants]

No. Not. At. All. Saying things like that actually makes you look far, far scummier.

Why? If I were scum then my partner(s) (is a 4 person scum group unheard of in a 12 player setup??) would not want to lynch me, particularly when they were so close to victory.

Why not skye?

I found MF more odd on my reread, but skye's frantic posting and threatening after he claimed did scream scum to me as well. I mentioned in my analysis I found both of them scummy, and I think a lynch of either of them would be a good strategy today. At deadline, I'd be willing to lynch either of them but I'll have a reread and see who I find more likely to be scum out of the two.

Short of there possibly being four person scum group, there's no way that all the claimed power roles are legitimate. The game would be ridiculously unbalanced in the town's favour. avinashv and EA are protown in nature, although I think avinashv could be scum based on the fact that a paranoid cop claim would be a really good claim for a scum. However, I think it's pretty slim based on the 'town' precursor he added in accordance to vamp's claim. That leaves MF and Skye who logically seem to be good candidates for scum based purely on their clam. As I wrote about in my analysis this is further backed by their behaviour through the game. Another point nobody's brought up is MF's indecision to claim when skye did. I think he could've thought that skye was caught and didn't want to reveal himself.

[Awesome Pants]

At deadline, I'm find with a SF lynch. I'm fine with anyone's lynch really, except maybe EA, but when skyedoc makes posts like this:

Neither of us will come up scum and if you need to lynch me to see that go the hell ahead.

I really can't see how there's not more suspicion on him then there has been. He already posted in his post 432 that he didn't know whether or not MF is town, so to be making claims that they're both not scum seems really suspicios to me. The only reason I can see him making such a claim is if they were both scum or just he was scum.

When you factor in things like them not talking about claiming at night (I know I would have if I were a mason), the fact that MF seemed hesitant to back up skye's claim by claiming to be his partner and the OPness of the town already, I think it's very possible that they are our scum pair. Of the two, right now I'm more confident with skye being scum, particularly because of his most recent post and the frantic and agressive nature of his posts when he claimed so I'm going to

unvote

vote: skyedoc

Oh, and ooc, I really hope you manage to sort out your CC skye! Good luck with it all.

[Awesome Pants]

I work it out to be 9AM thursday des. That's roughly 13 and a half hours from this post. You are an eastern state aussie right?

Oh, and if anyone has any preference at all with the lynch (if you're protown you really should..) then hurry up and vote for

someone

.

[Awesome Pants]

:arrow:

I'm moving house, so I'll be away until my internet is reconnected. Shouldn't be more than a week or so.

Please try and get access when you can, this is a very crucial point in the game

[Awesome Pants]

I'm back. Sorry for making things drag on a little.

I think that purely by process of elimination, des and sens are my biggest suspects. I find MF to be almost cleared, and EA seems to be very protown and pretty much confirmed, though I suppose him not posting much content recently could be an indication of him being scum.

At the moment though I'd like to lynch either des or sens. I can't see them both being scum though, save from some really good distancing, but I'm pretty sure that at least one of them are scum (again from my elite powers of elimination and from their generalised behaviour).

At the moment I find des to be the scummiest of the two, purely for his inability to claim when he replaced in. I don't think that his excuse that he needed to read the game before claiming holds up and for him to say that he needed to 'see why we were claiming in the first place' I find him very suspicious. We'd already decided as a town to massclaim, so even if he had disagreed with the fact that we were claiming (iirc, he

did

) it shouldn't have mattered as he would've had to claim anyway! Frankly I find the bandwagon because of that on Sens a bit suspicious (although not completely unfounded, as it did present itself as a very opportunity based attack). I would be happy with either of their lynches today.

So to sum up, my list of scummiest to least scummiest:

des
Sens
EA
MF

and with that

vote: destructor

[Awesome Pants]

EBWOP: Doh,

unvote

, just realised we're potentially in lylo. I'll change that to a

FoS

: des. Happy to hear thoughts.

[Awesome Pants]

Well since I haven't been hamered our scum pair has become p. obvious. Guess I was wrong about EA. :\

vote: Des

[Awesome Pants]

I guess all that we're waiting on now is waiting to see whether Sens and MF will vote with me so that we can lynch EA tomorrow or not. You both really do need to make a decision before deadline, by not choosing either way you're just giving des and EA an easy win.

One of the strongest points against des is his refusal to claim early on. It's so blindingly obvious that he stalled so that he could contemplate claiming a power role and pull off a gambit or something. Any other reasoning is just hogwash, particularly how he claims he had to see why we were claiming and if it was a good idea. He wasn't in a position to stop them as they were already underway so what was the point.

MF and Sens: I suggest you both have a reread and make up your own mind on who to lynch. Vote with your head and don't let des pressure you into voting early, doing so will only hurt us as the town, which is exactly what he wants you to do.

[Awesome Pants]

Oh, and AP, why'd you decide to vote for me instead of EA?

I'd vote for both of you if I could, but unfortunately that's not possible. I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve by asking, but it's most likely some sort of logic trap that falsely incriminates me. Why does it matter if you so clearly know I'm scum?

You did exactly what Sens has failed improve on by giving no reason why what I said is irrelevant or wrong. And it's not a rule of Mafia that once a massclaim begins it must end.

I think you mean 'once a massclaim begins it must continue', and it's not, but failing some extenuating circumstances coming from someone's claim a mass claim will go ahead.

As a town, we had already decided to claim

and as such unless your role had some information that would stop us claiming for whatever reason, there would be no way that we would stopped claiming just because you said so. Further, again, we'd already decided as a majority! If you had flat out refused to claim at that point you would've been lynched for stalling, and I see this no different. There's no logical reason why you should've taken the time to read the thread before claiming if you're town, which your not. I can't seem to make that clear enough.

[Awesome Pants]

Gah, I'm not proud of that win at all. My play early on was pretty shocking, and today all I could really do was latch on to the claiming argument on des. For the record, I still think it's scummy to not immediately claim in that situation. I knew (and I guess SF did too) that really the only way we were going to win is if we could get it down to a draw and rely on chance.

Really well played des. Had me and Sens pinned from the beginning. Hopefully one day we can play in a game where I'm not scum!

Excellent gambit too EA with claiming bullet proof. I tried to set you up a few times as my partner cause I thought that was the only way we'd be able to get rid of you, but I don't think it really worked. You seemed to know me and Sens were scum too, did you consider switching your vote over to des and winning with us?

Overall, a good game that really should've gone in the town's favour. Luck was just on our side I guess, the dice seem to like me.

[Awesome Pants]

Yeah, I agree with the deadline thing. I think that the players should have an idea who will be lynched at deadline before the deadline hits. If that means who got to the tied amount of votes so be it.

I guess Niv just wanted to stop ties at deadline though, which is fair enough cause it can lead people to not committing to vote when they really should be.

[Awesome Pants]

Oh, and why didn't the Mafia kill night 0?

iirc, we discussed who to kill that night and had it planned but somehow didn't organise someone to actually send in the kill.

AP seeded some pretty good craplogic defenses of EA over today. I was going to use that against him.

Yeah, I'm not sure if they were enough but I let Sens know that he should think about bussing me then going after EA. I think it would've taken some epic persuasion to get des to vote for EA though, though I get the feeling he wasn't totally sure about sens.