Mini 554 - Mafia in Vollville - Over!!


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Post Post #225 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:16 am

Post by Guardian »

Incognito wrote:So I thought to myself: "Well, maybe this Guardian fellow just has a difficult time determining what's humor on the internet and what isn't. I certainly wouldn't want to
miscategorize him as scum if he really has a difficult time making that distinction
."

...

By the way, there was
a lot more to my case besides the difference between Erg0's joke post and Xyl's joke post
but yet you chose to only respond to the last portion of my case.

bolding and shortening by Guardian
Wait, which is it Incognito?

If I was bad at identifying humor, the rest of your case would have disappeared? You would have been
miscategorizing me as scum if I really had a difficult time making that distinction
?

Or, would the rest of your case, this case that
there is a lot more to besides the difference between Erg0's joke post and Xyl's joke post
still have been there?

I'm terribly confused... and suspicious. There seems to be a striking disparity between those two comments of yours, coming from the same post.

On the one hand, you say you waited to comment on me because had I not been able to tell the difference between humor and not humor, I would not have been suspicious. On the other hand, you say there is a lot to your case besides me arbitrarily finding some humor suspicious and some humor not suspicious. Could you explain how you are not being terribly self-contradictory?


=======================================
Votecount #9

opie - 3 (Adel, Oman, Guardian)

TrustGossip - 2 (pickemgenius, Xylthixlm)
Guardian - 2 (opie, Incognito)
Matt_S - 1 (ChaosOmega)
Oman - 1 (Jitsu)

Not voting - 3 (Matt_S, TrustGossip, Erg0)

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Deadline for D1: Saturday March 1, 10:55AM GMT+10
=======================================
Do not lynch me.
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Post Post #226 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:41 am

Post by Matt_S »

Xlythixlm: You seem to be arguing just for the sake of arguing, and you pull (incorrect) numbers into everything, plus accusing others of OMGUS to avoid attacking their points. And I FOSed opie because the things that were on my mind were the "trying too hard" argument and my inability to remember any important posts by him. I'll admit I haven't reread everything yet, and I didn't play to be away all weekend, but I wanted to express my opinion before being away for a while. However, I expected a little more to happen and for my absence to be more noticable.

Jitsu: Someone said that opie was trying too hard to scumhunt without being useful. My post was a comment on that. Yeah, I agreed he did seem to be trying hard, and he didn't seem to be doing much, but I didn't want to vote for him because of that.

Now is when I reread this topic. Another post soon hopefully.
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Post Post #227 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:47 am

Post by TrustGossip »

Matt_S wrote:Xlythixlm: You seem to be arguing just for the sake of arguing, and you pull (incorrect) numbers into everything, plus accusing others of OMGUS to avoid attacking their points.
Why do you think I stopped posting?
Compcrack

Basically crack.
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Post Post #228 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:49 am

Post by opie »

[i]In Post 74[/i] Guardian wrote:Opie's post actually heightened my suspicion there -- I'd really like a good explanation from both opie, and Jitsu...
[i]In Post 255[/i] Guardian wrote:I'm terribly confused... and suspicious.
It seems to me that Guardian is most suspicious of those suspicious of him. First Jitsu and myself and now Incognito.

@Guardian: You're vote for me seems to be a just an adoption of Adel's argument. Could you explain to me why you think I am scum? Also in Post 178 you asked me a second question about me and Adel's past history. And then you bring it up again in Post 183 when you place your vote for me. Why are you so interested in this and did it influence your decision to vote for me?
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Post Post #229 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:57 am

Post by pickemgenius »

So now opie and Matt_S are trying to get Guardian lynched.... fantastic.
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Post Post #230 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:00 am

Post by Incognito »

Guardian, you're completely strawmanning my case against you.

When you initially responded to my case against you, the only portion of it that you responded to was point number 4. You're correct in saying that even if you had responded in such a way that led me to believe that you were bad at identifying humor I probably would have still presented my case against you. My issues with your play would have still existed but the difference would have been that the case would have been less lengthy and maybe slightly less substantial. Let's consider point number 4 in which you respond to my question about Xylthixlm to be the icing on the cake.

I'd like others to comment on the case, plz.
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Post Post #231 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:01 am

Post by opie »

pickemgenius, what are you talking about?
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Post Post #232 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:24 am

Post by pickemgenius »

opie wrote:pickemgenius, what are you talking about?
It seems like you're basically getting on Guardian.

It seems like Matt is on Guardian.

just sayin.
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Post Post #233 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:25 am

Post by Matt_S »

pickemgenius wrote:So now opie and Matt_S are trying to get Guardian lynched.... fantastic.
I voted Guardian because I didn't like his bandwagoning. Since then, bigger things happened and I moved on, hence I unvoted him.

As for my suspicions, a quick look at opie's posts showed me he was one of the early people against Guardian, which was one of the big things.
UnFoS opie
since that goes against my "he wasn't useful" point. Everything else still fits with the "trying too hard" thing, but again that's not scummy enough for a vote.
UnFoS Oman
, since the thing with him trying to get votes on Guardian appears to be over. Yeah, he still did it but it looked just like a misunderstanding. That leaves Xylthixlm. He doesn't seem to have done anything to remove my suspicion since Friday, so
Vote Xylthixlm
.

As for the new case on Guardian, he said he wanted to create discussion, so I'd kind of understand why he'd tell everyone his suspicions. But Indigo makes good points on how much he questions Adel and borrows his logic on opie's case. However, this still goes in line with his point of making discussion. So for now, I'll wait until Guardian replies.
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Post Post #234 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:37 am

Post by opie »

It just seemed that Matt_S had moved on from Guardian. He unvoted in Post 190 and focused on some other players and said little about it since. In the mean time Incognito posts a massive case against Guardian and places a vote. At which point you say that Matt_S and I are trying to lynch Guardian. It just seemed weird and out of now where.
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Post Post #235 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:46 am

Post by opie »

Sorry to double post, but I just had a chance to really re-read Matt_S's recent post. When did you make a "he wasn't useful" point against me? I can't seem find it.

Also what are you talking about with Oman trying to get votes on Guardian?

And this question is from Post 226, what were you expecting to happen this past weekend? And how was you absence to be more noticeable?

These last two posts of yours really have me scratching my head.
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Post Post #236 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:09 pm

Post by Incognito »

pickemgenius wrote:
opie wrote:pickemgenius, what are you talking about?
It seems like you're basically getting on Guardian.

It seems like Matt is on Guardian.

just sayin.
pickem, opie has already mentioned that Matt hasn't been on Guardian for some time now. But even if he was currently still on Guardian, is there a reason he shouldn't be?
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Post Post #237 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:12 pm

Post by Adel »

pickemgenius wrote:So now opie and Matt_S are trying to get Guardian lynched.... fantastic.
and Incognito is trying to help Matt_S and opie invent some drama between them to help their distancing.... fantastic. I think this is going to be a very short game.
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Post Post #238 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:23 pm

Post by pickemgenius »

It seems like you're basically getting on Guardian.

It seems like Matt is on Guardian.

just sayin.[/quote]

pickem, opie has already mentioned that Matt hasn't been on Guardian for some time now. But even if he was currently still on Guardian, is there a reason he shouldn't be?[/quote]

Guardian doesn't appear to be scum, while opie and Matt do moreso.

Adel wrote:
pickemgenius wrote:So now opie and Matt_S are trying to get Guardian lynched.... fantastic.
and Incognito is trying to help Matt_S and opie invent some drama between them to help their distancing.... fantastic. I think this is going to be a very short game.
rather quick I must say.
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Post Post #239 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:25 pm

Post by Xylthixlm »

To be honest, Matt_S's posts are making my brain melt when I try to read them. I'll see if I can dredge out any bits that make enough sense to talk about.

Let's see... he accuses me of "accusing others of OMGUS to avoid attacking their points". That must be about my response to TrustGossip. The only arguable point TrustGossip made was about the inconsistency of my posts, and I responded to that. I have to conclude that Matt_S didn't bother checking his facts.

The rest of Matt_S's argument, as far as I can tell, is that arguing about Abel's numbers is scummy and distracting. I'll admit to it being distracting, but Matt_S is the one who first made it an issue!

I'm unlikely to reply to any further responses from Matt_S unless they contain (a) good arguments and (b) sentence structure that doesn't make my brain try to flee through my ears.
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Post Post #240 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:29 pm

Post by Xylthixlm »

EBWOP:
unvote TrustGossip, vote Matt_S
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Post Post #241 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:46 pm

Post by Guardian »

I find an opie-Matt_S scum-group not unlikely.

Incognito might be a good third, I don't see I straw-man'd him significantly, just pointed out an inconsistency that he didn't refute.

I am happy with my vote on opie.

I am not particularly motivated to respond to Incognito's case on me.
Do not lynch me.
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Post Post #242 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:04 pm

Post by Erg0 »

Ok, reread done. I'll do a player-by-player and then carry on from this point.

Matt_S - I don't like how he voted Guardian in 80 (after opie and Jitsu) and then immediately weakened it by saying in 86 that he would move it later. I think he may have missed the point of the case on opie initially, but the populist FoS in 190 is the most blatant case of either following or distancing that I've seen in a while. Strikes me as someone that doesn't really have any solid suspicions, but doesn't want to reveal that fact.

Adel - Has been true to her word of staying on opie (so far), which is nice. This case isn't bad in places, though a lot of it seems to boil down to opie being too keen. I do agree with the point about opie trying to extend suspicion to all of the players on my wagon, but the case falls down somewhat if Adel's hypothetical is inaccurate. The early case has led to the rest of her day basically consisting of commenting on who is and isn't likely to be opie's buddy, which s going to be a problem if he comes up town.

pickemgenius - I dunno, ask me again if he's alive tomorrow. Lots of dependencies, but he's playing how he always does. Pickem, you say in 207 that you want to lynch opie, but don't vote. Why not?

Oman - Seems ok to me, but I can never pick scum Oman til day 2. Neutral read right now.

opie - Looking at it as objectively as I can, I'd say he erred on the side of suspicion when reading Guardian's early posts. His initial defence of Adel's vote was pretty poor, as he went after her rather than her reasoning in 116 and didn't really defend himself properly until he had four votes on him. The possible attempted setup of a chain lynch is the most damning point against him, I'd say.

ChaosOmega - A post or two would be nice.

Xylthixlm - Follows Adel onto opie almost immediately, even though he thinks her reasoning is "not much to go on", and stuck around on the wagon for quite a while before unvoting immediately once opie posted his full defence in 184. Frankly, I didn't think that 184 was a good enough post to really change anyone's mind, especially when his new vote was for TG on a lame overreaction tell. Hassling of Adel over her models while staying on the wagon with her and wilful ignorance of TG's vote on him are also points against. I'd actually rate him opie's most likely buddy at this point.

Incognito - I actually really like his case on Guardian, as he's using a lot of the same tells that I tend to look for, such as a player asking questions without follow-up. I also agree with his point about Jitsu's apparent backdown in 129 (which I noted on my way through). Good scumhunting makes him pro-town for my money.

TrustGossip - I laughed when he voted Xyl and nobody followed him. His comment about Adel in 117, followed by his vote for Xyl in 119, make me think that TG believed Adel was setting a trap for someone to follow her in with a "too townie" argument, so he was trying to get town points by jumping on Xyl first. Nobody else followed, and he just kind of dropped it quietly and then unvoted 80-odd posts later. Later sniping could be distancing, too. IGMEOY.

Guardian - Has shown a few of my classic scumtells: asks lots of questions (some of them only marginally relevant) without really doing anything with the answers, picked on one point in Adel's case without really commenting on the rest of it in any detail, really did strawman Incognito's case on him in his more recent posts. I think I need a better meta on Guardian, he always looks like scum to me.

Jitsu - Reaction to Oman's daykill is neither here nor there, I don't think anyone really falls for that one any more. Post 129 set off major alarm bells for me, as he tries to paint himself as having been aware for some time that the wagon on me was non-serious, and was simply waiting for someone to admit it. The tone of his previous posts, such as 98 (where he responds seriously to Oman's joke case), don't tally with this assertion. His subsequent defence against Incognito's case smacks of revisionism, as he was obviously attempting to give the impression in 129 that he'd known for a while, whereas in 180 he says that he only realised this when Oman said it was a joke (in 120). Overall, 129 looks like a massive backdown brought on by the realisation that the position he has taken is seen as suspicious by the town as a whole. I wouldn't be surprised at all if opie is town caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, and Jitsu is the scum that was lucky enough to be given the opportunity to run away.

Vote: Jitsu
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Post Post #243 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Post by pickemgenius »

Erg0 wrote: pickemgenius - I dunno, ask me again if he's alive tomorrow. Lots of dependencies, but he's playing how he always does. Pickem, you say in 207 that you want to lynch opie, but don't vote. Why not?
There have been other events I would like see further matrue before I vote.
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Post Post #244 (ISO) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:30 pm

Post by Xylthixlm »

It seems I am using completely different scumtells from Erg0. I've had too much exposure to IRC, the scum there don't have time to think.
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Post Post #245 (ISO) » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:32 am

Post by Xylthixlm »

I just want to say...
Erg0 wrote:TrustGossip - I laughed when he voted Xyl and nobody followed him. His comment about Adel in 117, followed by his vote for Xyl in 119, make me think that TG believed Adel was setting a trap for someone to follow her in with a "too townie" argument, so he was trying to get town points by jumping on Xyl first. Nobody else followed, and he just kind of dropped it quietly and then unvoted 80-odd posts later. Later sniping could be distancing, too. IGMEOY.
Aha!
I was wondering what TrustGossip was smoking to lead to post 119. That explains a lot.
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Post Post #246 (ISO) » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:04 am

Post by opie »

I am a little troubled that Guardian has ignored my questions in Post 228 and his unwillingness to respond to Incognito's argument other than what he's shown in Post 225. And in that post, I'm not sure what he is getting at.

pickemgenius, it just seems to me that you were trying to clumsily build a connection between Matt_S and I. I'm just saying.
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Post Post #247 (ISO) » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:18 am

Post by ChaosOmega »

vollkan was correct, I was quite ill. However, I'm back, and will post something with substance later today once I finish my re-read.
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Post Post #248 (ISO) » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:28 am

Post by Adel »

opie wrote:I am a little troubled that Guardian has ignored my questions in Post 228 and his unwillingness to respond to Incognito's argument other than what he's shown in Post 225. And in that post, I'm not sure what he is getting at.

pickemgenius, it just seems to me that you were trying to clumsily build a connection between Matt_S and I. I'm just saying.
there is nothing clumsy about noticing the obvious. try again.
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Post Post #249 (ISO) » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:53 am

Post by opie »

Adel, where is the obviousness to be found?

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