Mini 560: Methodical Mafia 2 -- GAME OVER

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/confirm

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Funny thing Sarcasto, I heard the same thing. But I can't remember who I heard it from. Who was it again?

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That's right. How could I forget. Light of a thousand suns and all.

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Nocmen, this response of yours doesn't make much sense to me. I don't think Sarcasto had a problem with you asking questions, I think it was the particular question you asked. And when are you not allowed to ask questions? I'm not sure what you are getting at. Also what claim is he doubting? That Max thinks andersonw is clearly scum? I think he presumed that Max's list was random, and that his comment of andersonw being clearly scum is a bit tongue in cheek. Why are you taking is so seriously at this point?

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I think Shy Guy has a good idea about how we go about this game. But we must still go about looking for scum, because if we don't do that, then the most pro-town players won't evidence themselves.

And Nocmen, I do take this game seriously, but apparently not as seriously as you.

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Shy Guy, my point is that we need to focus on finding scum, that way, pro-town players will surface. If we ignore finding scum, I'm not sure how you propose we find the more pro-town players.

Van Damien, I think I understand what you are saying but I have no idea how that would work.

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Perhaps we can get a concensus on who the 3 or 4 most pro-town players and the 3 or 4 scummiest. People couple feel free to order them in whatever order but they would be the players on the top and bottom of everyone's list.

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I just wanted to notify that I may be V/LA until 19 Feb.

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Hey guys, I am back from V/LA.

I am entirely fascinated by Ectomancer's idea in Post 78. However, I'm not sure if it could actually work. First it seems like an fairly complex set up which just invites things to go wrong. Second, we would need to get everyone to agree to participate and then a large majority to support one candidate. I'm not sure if that can happen, especially by the end of the deadline.

I like Max's method of ranking, adding and subtracting points. However, In Post 80 he gave some thoughts, but I'm not sure exactly how that corresponds to the results in Post 81. Most notably, I'm not sure how Yosarian2 got to the bottom of his list.

I am somewhat troubled by Ectomancer's reply to ShyGuy in Post 94. The thing I like about Max's is that everyone starts off even no one is more or less scum than another. But Ectomancer seems to have Yosarian2 as the most townie and andseronw and the most scum worthy, which I feel are entirely two different positions to defend from. And I understand that statistically Yosarian2 is more likely town than scum, but couldn't the same thing be true with regards to andersonw. And I understand that he is the default due to the alpabetical listing and the mentality of "You gotta put someone at the bottom!" but I don't know if it serves the town to have this many people with Yosarian2 as there default most town player.

With regards to Skruffs concerns mentioned in Post 134. Isn't it in scum's best interest to always play like an innocent townie and work on people's good graces?

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Code: Select all

Ectomancer
Nocmen
Oman
Skruffs
Sarcastro
VanDamien
Thesp
andersonw
Max
Yosarian2
Shy Guy

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My top vote is for Ectomancer because as I did a read through, I found my self disagreeing with him the most. I employed a similar strategy that Max adopted. Ectomancer had the fewest points. A few things I noted were: Post 30, when he wanted to know the link between Max and Sarcastro followed by his response to Nocmen in Post 36; Post 91 was a big one, his pledge of Yosarian2 before evening seeing his ballot struck me odd, followed by his cut and paste of Yosarian2's ballot once it was posted; Post 94, I didn't like the logic or the tone.
Nocmen is next on my ballot for his early, I play this game serious posture; Post 47 also struck me odd.

Oman is next because first he felt that Yosarian was town, then was concerned when everyone else thought so too.

I will say that Oman comes in a distant third, but someone had to take that spot.

Addressing my Bottom 3: I found myself agreeing the most with Shy Guy, Yosarian, and Max more often than any other. They seem to me the most active sincere scum hunters.

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Nocmen, I few thought before I have to run:

First, what I did was add points for pro-town subtract for scum. This may be opposite to Max, but similar in the sense of points.

Second, I do not think if I disagree with someone they are scum. I think that is an easy trap to fall into. For example if you compare my ballots with, Yosarian2, Shy Guy and Max, you see that I disagree with them quite a bit.

Third, I do have something to say about the others, however I wanted to get a ballot posted and I did not just want to post a ballot without any explanation and I need to leave. So I covered my top three and bottom three. Plus I may re-arrange the middle slightly. The problem with the point system is that it doesn't effectively take into account inactivity. So, often it seems that the most active are the most penalized and most rewarded.

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Code: Select all

Ectomancer
Nocmen
Sarcastro
Oman
Skruffs
VanDamien
andersonw
Thesp
Max
Yosarian2
ShyGuy

I moved Sarcastro up to third. I reviewed his posts and found them to be a bit lacking in attempts to hunt for scum. He's posted enough to stay active but little to pressure anyone.
Skruffs through Thesp are all pretty close to me. I have them all in a neutral category, so its little things that dictated their place order. I put Skruffs the highest because of Post 134. I don't like his reasoning there. Van Damien I'm the most neautral towards, so he get the middle spot. I put Thesp slightly ahead of andersonw because I've like what he's had to say since replacing in.

Shy Guy, I must admit, I'm a little more than confused by Post 158.

Nocmen: I have my suspicions too that Shy Guy may be an alt. But I'm not sure why that's a scum tell. Presumably he's adopted this persona before receiving his role in this game. So I consider it a null tell. I also do not see the fear mongering that you are refering to.

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The beauty of this is, the one's arguing cant argue with the logic and have no idea what to do about it.

I guess I can't argue with your logic because, I must admit, I don't fully understand it.

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Thank you for the explanation. I guess I see a couple of flaws/concerns in the plan. First, we need more than one townie to stick around to the end. I'm not sure if your plan accounts for who follows Yosarian2. Second, the scum will have night choices. What happens if Yosarian2 is night killed tonight? If we all rally around Yosarian2 as you have done, we in effect agree with his list as a whole. And while I think that Yosarian2 is likely pro-town. I don't agree with him on his other choices. By adopting his ballot you seem to suggest that because Yosarian2 is pro-town, his ballot is the most correct.

I understand your intial premise. That statistically Yosarian2 is pro-town. But I'm not sure if I follow your next step in logic, that the town will be best served by adopting his ballot.

I guess my question is, if you think Yosarian2 is pro-town then put him at the bottom of you list, but what advantage is it to adopt his ballot?

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Oh, I must have missed that. In the original Methodical Mafia. The scum had night kills. They had to submit a list of who they wanted to kill each night and who would be the killer each night. I assumed that this game would be similar in that respect.

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That didn't turn exactly the way I thought it would either. I guess I didn't fully understand the concecpt of elimination until now.

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Sorry I have been away from the game for a few days. There's been a few upheavals at work.

I'm not sure if I agree with Ectomancer in Post 223 about binding the block. If someone honestly feels that Yosarian, Shy Guy, or myself are scum why should the be penalized by moving us up their lists in order to insure the we are not in the final three. So I stand in agreement with VanDamien, Skruffs, Sarcastro, Yosarian2, and Shy Guy on that issue.

It seems to me Ectomancer that you are statiscally counting on the fact that odds are likely that Yosarian2 and I are town. That does not seem to be a proper (nor fun) way to apporoach this game.

Why do you think Sarcastro is scum Ectomancer? Is everyone who will disagree with you on this issue likely to be scum?

Nocmen, I'm not exactly sure how to respond. I would just invite you to re-read my posts. I'll have to stand on my record. If you think I am scum and have reasons, I'll try to adress those. But otherwise I'm not sure what to say. (Which I basically, Yosarian2's position).

Ectomancer, why is it that you are so sure Sarcastro is scum? And if you are so sure why not move him up on your ballot?

Wait?! Did Ectomancer just change his ballot. Isn't that a sure sign of scum? And did so without any explanation? I'm confused.

I'll probably get slammed that this is a lot of "me too" which I have been accused of in the past but it is basically a running commentary as I was reading through the thread. I'm not going to change my vote because I'm still pretty okay still with my list. And I know that tweaking the list will change the outcome of the game, but I don't have the time to figure out how, so I'll leave it as it is for now.

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@Shy Guy: After I signed up and before it started I did a quick read of Methodical Mafia 1 to get an idea of the game was played, since it was such a unique mechanic. I thought the rules were the same between the two games. In Methodical Mafia 1, there were night choices. After Day Zero, there were lynches and night choices.