Mini 554 - Mafia in Vollville - Over!!

[opie]

vote: pickmegenius

Why? because I said so!

And. Because Adel has too many votes already...

[opie]

@Incognito: Not really, plus this game I promised myself that I would approach Adel with a clean slate.

[opie]

Well, I think in our last game I over reacted to your methods a bit. I didn't hear you out. This go round I promise to hear you out.

[opie]

We were both town. We were both wrong.

[opie]

@TrustGossip: What did I mess up and how did it confuse you?

[opie]

Wow, I didn't even realize. It's pick

em

genius not pick

me

genius. I thought he was just upset with abbreviation. Sorry pickemgenius. Duly noted for the future.

[opie]

Oman why are you so excited about this mini?

[opie]

Unvote: pick

em

genius

Post 64 made me laugh after reading dictionary definitions. Ugh. But to throw in my two cents, when I read your post Xylthixlm I read it with arbitrary meaning 3b. Why? Because when I use that word, that how I most often use it. Enter "define:arbitrary" into google and the majority of the results are similar.

Guardian driving Ergo's wagon makes me uneasy. You demand everyone give there thoughts on Erg0 and explain why they don't think he is worthy of a vote? I'm not voting for him because I haven't heard a case made against him. He threatened us with a day vig? Really? Right now to me this wagon is random bordering on suspicious.

Vote: Guardian
FOS: Oman and Adel

[opie]

First, I do appreciate the fact that you are trying to get some serious discussion. I felt like "arbitrary" was starting to distract the town.

I said that you were driving Erg0's wagon because you are voting for and then asked everyone for their thoughts. To me it had an air of: "Those of you not voting for Erg0, explain yourself" which just doesn't sit right with me. Especially when I don't think Erg0 has done anything to deserve an serious wagon. If its not a serious wagon then its a random wagon, and I don't think its necessary for me to explain why I'm not on a random wagon. I think it's incumbent upon those on a random bandwagon to explain why they are not the other way around. Thus, my vote for you.

Additionally you swithed you vote to Erg0 without any explanation. At first I thought it was random, but I'm starting to get the sense that it wasn't. And lastly, in Post 43, you questioned Erg0's threats of DayVig. The statements you are using to implicate Erg0 are to me statement made tongue in cheek. I didn't give the much credit. It makes me wonder why you do, and why you said nothing of Adel or Oman's Day Vigs.

I guess I just don't understand why Erg0 is being targetted here, which makes me suspicious of those voting for him. I will say that looking back Adel's vote for him has was her first only vote thus far, so perhaps I was a bit hasty with my FOS at her, but something about this just doesn't sit right.

=======================================

Votecount #3

Erg0 - 3 (Adel, Guardian, Oman)

Matt_S - 2 (ChaosOmega, Xylthixlm)
Oman - 2 (Erg0, Jitsu)
pickemgenius - 2 (TrustGossip, Incognito)
Xylthixlm - 1 (Matt_S)
TrustGossip - 1 (pickemgenius)
Guardian - 1 (opie)

Not voting - 0 (nobody)

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Deadline for D1: Saturday March 1, 10:55AM GMT+10
=======================================

[opie]

To clarify, I have accrued two votes and one fos for:

Taking this game seriously

Taking comments in this game seriously

Wanting others to take this game seriously

Asking others to play this game

Is this a significant mis-categorization? Is there something I've missed?

Actually, those are none of the reason that I voted for you. Seriously.

So a significant mis-categorization? Yes.

Here is why I'm voting for you:

First: (a) you swithched you for to Erg0 without explanation [Post 24]; then, (b) when asked to explain, you reply that it's because of Erg0's "hang" comments, also because he's a "secret Aussie" Post 27; and, (c) you wonder why Erg0 is threatening with day vigs, then comment that he is the best place for votes (Post 43). My initial thoughts were just random stage chatter.

But then, you ask everyone to comment on Erg0's wagon [Post 65]. Which suggested to me that the above comments were serious. I didn't feel (and still don't) that what Erg0 did was worthy of a serious vote. And if they aren't all that serious, then I don't think I should have to explain why I am not on a random wagon.

As I said above [Post 75], I can't figure out why you were/are targetting Erg0 in such a way. It seems suspicious to me.

And now as Jitsu pointed out, it seems odd to demand that everyone explain their stance on Erg0[Post 65], when only a few posts later[Post 74, you don't feel he is most deserving of a vote.

[opie]

Adel, why are you so convinced that I will be lynched today? In six pages no less?

Is this based on another algorithm?

And, you're wrong again.

[opie]

I just want to clarify something. Xylthixlm, in Post 118 you meant to vote for Oman?

I'm being confused for Oman now, am I? I'm not sure what to make of this.

*shakes ahead and walks away*

[opie]

In Mini 515, Adel replaced in. In her first few posts she introduced some innovative approaches to finding scum. I quickly jumped on her for being scum. I was wrong.

In this game I was not sure if she would be employing a similar strategy. If she was, I was making it clear that while I disagree with those methods, I would not automatically assume it too be a scum tell.

Also, she pulled out a "STFU" defense that I was slightly insulted by. But I don't think it would behove myself or the town to carry that into this game, to only evaluate Adel based on her actions in this game.

[opie]

Adel will you consider no other candidates for a lynch today?

[opie]

Wow, you guys have been busy since yesterday afternoon.

I'll address Adel's case against me from Post 136.

With my first post, I'm not sure how I was communicating what you accuse me of. How does was that supposed to indicate that I'll chase the later votes on any wagon? I know you addressed this already, but I'm still confused by this whole bit.

You then wondered whether a wagon that was random bordering on suspicious was worthy of a vote. I think that is simplifying my case somewhat, but I would argue that on Page 3 its as good a reason as any.

You then argue that I'm trying too hard to prove my pro-town credentials. I'm not really sure what to say in response other than that I am trying to look for scum. And that I felt Guardian's response was somewhat odd. That is why I pressed it a little further.

If I understand correctly, your case against me: (a) Guardian is clearly town; (b) I as town should be able to recognize this; (c) I'm trying too hard to make a case against him; and (d) only scum would want to appear to be trying so hard to find scum. Based on this, you are more than 50% sure that I am town, will not consider any other candidates, and would like nothing more to see me hang.

Also directed at Adel, Jitsu asked you why you are sure that Oman is town. Your response was that you would expect him to behave otherwise if he were scum. How would you expect him to play?

I do not understand the whole TrustGossip/Xylthixlm exchange. Especially, TrustGossip's behavior. It seemed to come out of nowhere to me and a bit over reactive. I'm not a big fan of the name calling or personal attacks.

To answer Guardian's question from Post 178. I wanted to keep an open mind, because although I disagree with her methods and while her results from my experience are inaccurate, that doesn't make her scum. In the last game, I assumed her methods were a scum tell, I was wrong. I didn't want to make that mistake again. Not that I would give her a free pass, mind you, but that I would find more on which to base my votes, if I were too. Also, I was somewhat insulted by a few of her comments in that game, and I did not want that to cloud my vision in this game. I haven't necessarily changed my opinions about her methods, but I have realized that it is not an indicator of her alignment.

Oman, what parts of Adel's argument against do you agree with and which do you feel are incorrect?

[opie]

Opie's post actually heightened my suspicion there -- I'd really like a good explanation from both opie, and Jitsu...

I'm terribly confused... and suspicious.

It seems to me that Guardian is most suspicious of those suspicious of him. First Jitsu and myself and now Incognito.

@Guardian: You're vote for me seems to be a just an adoption of Adel's argument. Could you explain to me why you think I am scum? Also in Post 178 you asked me a second question about me and Adel's past history. And then you bring it up again in Post 183 when you place your vote for me. Why are you so interested in this and did it influence your decision to vote for me?

[opie]

pickemgenius, what are you talking about?

[opie]

It just seemed that Matt_S had moved on from Guardian. He unvoted in Post 190 and focused on some other players and said little about it since. In the mean time Incognito posts a massive case against Guardian and places a vote. At which point you say that Matt_S and I are trying to lynch Guardian. It just seemed weird and out of now where.

[opie]

Sorry to double post, but I just had a chance to really re-read Matt_S's recent post. When did you make a "he wasn't useful" point against me? I can't seem find it.

Also what are you talking about with Oman trying to get votes on Guardian?

And this question is from Post 226, what were you expecting to happen this past weekend? And how was you absence to be more noticeable?

These last two posts of yours really have me scratching my head.

[opie]

I am a little troubled that Guardian has ignored my questions in Post 228 and his unwillingness to respond to Incognito's argument other than what he's shown in Post 225. And in that post, I'm not sure what he is getting at.

pickemgenius, it just seems to me that you were trying to clumsily build a connection between Matt_S and I. I'm just saying.

[opie]

Adel, where is the obviousness to be found?

[opie]

Guardian, why are you not motivated to respond to Incognito?

[opie]

pickemgenius, again, what are you talking about?

And ChaosOmega, should I expect more thoughts regarding your vote?

[opie]

I just really don't understand all of this attitude in this game.

Not that I want to humor you any further pickemgenius, but is there something in particular I should be reading.

[opie]

I am not particularly motivated to respond to Incognito's case on me.

and again

I'm not motivated to respond to a post Incog made *in this game*. You think I'm going to look through all my old games and all the games I've read and find what I'm talking about? lolz.

This is what I've read. And I want to know why. Why is he not motivate to respond to Incognito's case? I feel the case is pretty substantial and except for a confusing point he made in Post 225 Guardian has completely ignored. If there is something I am missing pickemgenius, could you please just be up front and point it out.

[opie]

opie why are you not reading?

I said it would be nice of you to read. Now do it please.
kthx

you should be reading Guardians response to Incognito please.

Reading is overrated.

I don't know what to say about this anymore. So I'm not going to say anything.

[opie]

I just wanted to notify that I may be V/LA until 18 Feb.

Noted, thanks.

=======================================

Votecount #13

opie - 4 (Adel, Oman, Guardian, ChaosOmega)

Guardian - 2 (opie, Incognito)
Oman - 1 (Jitsu)
Xyltixlm - 1 (Matt_S)
TrustGossip - 1 (pickemgenius)
Jitsu - 1 (Erg0)
Matt_S - 1 (Xylthixlm)

Not voting - 1 (TrustGossip)

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Deadline for D1: Saturday March 1, 10:55AM GMT+10
=======================================

[opie]

Hey guys, I'm back from V/LA.

Here are my notes I made during my catch-up read-through.

First thing I noticed was that in Post 328 pickemgenius was critical when of Xylthixlm who suggested my Post 184 was an indication of pro-town alignment. pickemgenius said that my defense was an attempt to put pressure on someone else. I don't know if I agree with that characterization of Post 184. I do agree that I have put pressure on Guardian, but Adel's case against me was based largely on my case on Guardian. I feel like you are accusing me of deflecting attention from me onto Guardian which I feel is incorrect. I felt that I squarely addressed Adel case against me.

I agree with Adel with regards to his definition of distancing. Xylthixlm, not so much.

Welcome Patrick!

Matt_S, I think you are being a bit oversensitive in response to Adel's comments.

With regard to Post 340, why do you want to discuss the definition of arbitrary again?!

The wagon against Jitsu is starting to pick up some speed here. I am not completely sold on it yet, but I need to go back and re-read the posts cited and the case against him a bit more closely. My feeling has been until know that Jitsu has been a pretty pro-town player. But I maybe biased because he agreed with my initial case against Guardian. I need to stew on this.

While I am not sure how I quite feel about Jitsu at the moment, I agree with Patrick's Post in 370.

Adel: Post 373, slightly off topic, was ryan banned for role PM post in Pine Barrens?
Adel: Post 374, who you calling fruit?

Okay, more Jitsu/Guardian conversation. I need to study this.

My thoughts so far. More too come.

[opie]

Okay so I re-read the cases against Jitsu and the response and the back and forth. I understand Erg0's orginal case against him and why it would raise some supicions. I think Jitsu responded reasonably enough, such that I'm not sure he is all that worthy of a vote at this time. The back and forth between Jitsu and Guardian seems to be just that. Back and forth. Noise. I don't feel like either really advanced anything new other than contributing to a headache. Of Guardian I will say that, as Jitsu noted, Guardian's change of attitude to the Jitsu wagon between Post 307 and Post 359. I know he did a re-read but what I noted between those two posts is that the Jitsu wagon started to pick up more steam.

More recently, the major thing that Guardian added to the case against Jitsu is his "major point" in Post 390. Which I believe is the "other pro-town players" analysis. To me this adds little to the case. I get the feeling that Guardian is trying desperately to find something that he can exploit to make a case out of.

With regard to Jitsu, I agree with Patrick that Jitsu seems to constantly assert that he is innocent/pro-town. Even after Patrick pointed this out.

I'm really suprised by Adel's vote in Post 409. I thought that Adel's vote would stay on me until my death.

Post 426, is another in a line of Guardian finding those suspicious who find him suspicious. Now he's added Adel to the pile.

Yes, Guardian I still feel good about my vote.

[opie]

I don't know. Actually, I'm not sure what the point is your making here.

What I'm saying is that you jumped on the Jitsu wagon, engaged in a series of back and forths, and then parse out this "other pro-town players" line. You call it a major point and I don't find it convincing. Seems like you are trying to make a "major point" out of little.

[opie]

Not to get too meta Incognito, but I've played with Oman when he was active as scum. So I'm not sure what to make of it.

[opie]

I believe that Adel's vote puts me at L-1.

I am a townie, I have no special abilities.

And for the record my vote for Guardian is not simply a hold over from earlier in the game. My vote has remained for you response and you game play this whole day. Reasons that have already been articulated by Incognito and others. I have stood in support of these arguments but did not feel a "me too" post would have been much of a contribution. And I continue to feel that he is the best lynch candidate today.

[opie]

Jitsu, I am aware of the growing case against me. I don't respond to everyone because I feel that the there votes are premised primarily on Adel's case against me earlier in the day which I've already responded too. I haven't really heard any new allegations against me. Adel made his case. I made mine. People are going to have to decide for themselves. I didn't think getting into a post war with Adel would have helped my cause. Instead I continued to play the as I would otherwise. Further, I feel there are some on my wagon due to the deadline.

Guardian, is there a reason you keep using the word faction?

[opie]

Sorry guys, for lack of inactivity. There have been big changes at work for me and this game has really gotten away from me at the moment. Things hopefully have settled down. But as it stands I don't think it'll matter much since I'm the deadline lynch.

I'll just note a few things. That stood out to me in my re-read. First, I'm suprised that no-one (especially those on my wagon) have pointed out that I haven't posted in the last few days. I expected that it would trumpetted as a sure sign that I'm scum, identified, meekily retrating into the night, as it were.

Second, I'm suprised that I haven't been hammered yet. I also suprises me that there was some waffling as to whether or not the town should find another lynch, rather than make the case I am the best lynch.