Mini 552: X-Men mafia (Game Over!)

[Pug89]

vote Pug89

i really dont like pugs...

Why don't you like Pugs?

[Pug89]

Sorry I'm still here. There's just not much going on right now.

[Pug89]

Let's just start this! I'm gonna claim. I'm the Beast.

Claiming does not give any advantages to the town. Here's why :

i) Scum will be able to deduce which players are power roles based on the character. Outing power roles is bad for the town

ii) If our objective is to catch scum in a attempting a 'good character' claim which another player has, it might fail because they could have and mostly would have been given fake claims by the mod

iii) Even if they do not have fake claims , we should arrange the claim order in order of which players we think are scummiest first to catch them in a wrong claim.

But this is a good conversation starter and i'm sure all players will have something to say about this - a good kick start to the sleepy town like you said ..

I agree with ooba. Another thing to keep in mind, even if we believe that Korts is Beast it doesn't necessarily mean he is not mafia. It's not uncommon for characters to have a different role in a theme game than what would be expected based of of the source material.

[Pug89]

For the sake of arguing, I don't seem to remember any alternate universe where Beast was evil. Do correct me if I'm wrong, though.

Beast was evil in the Age of Apocalypse storyline and I think he crossed over to the main Marvel universe but I'm not overly familiar with the comics.

I was in a theme once where Buffy (BTVS) was SK. That felt a little bastardy, but was really fair game.

I was in this game too. This was the example I was thinking of when I made my last post.

[Pug89]

I definitly think Monkey using his ability as soon as he did was a mistake. Both him and Korts are new to mafiascum so I think both probably newbie mistakes, even so it doesn't mean Monkey is not scum. If Monkey is who I think he is based on the death scene I wouldn't think he was scum, but as has already been discussed you never know in a theme game.

[Pug89]

Vote: Monkey

I'm not entirely convinced he's scum but there's not a lot to go on right now and his use of ability is the most suspicious thing to happen so far.

[Pug89]

Vote: Pug89
How convenient that you just follow right along and put monkey at L-1 so that anyone could kill him.

1. As logictus already pointed out Monkey is only halfway to a lynch right now.
2. Someone has to place a L-1 vote sooner or later or the town will never lynch anyone which usually only helps scum.

[Pug89]

The reason I'm not sure yet is that a vigilante might come in handy for the town later on (if that's what he is). On the other hand, he seems to be a bit of a loose cannon.

That is what I'm worried about as well. Even if he is town he could end up hurting the town more than he helps.

[Pug89]

But i thought not lynching Monkey was a good move since he turned out to be town ..

Are you saying the two kills in the night or the confusion with Adele's resurrection could have been prevented if we did lynch monkey? (I'm just unsure about the 'Confusion is a great tool' part)

In hindsight it worked out better for the town since Monkey was town but at the time he was the strongest lead we had to go on and NL is almost always bad for the town.

monkey is |-2 im ok with him being lynched
ill hold my vote so someone doesnt hammer...ie ill hold til we push closer to deadline

You didn't vote for everyone; why is that?

[Pug89]

refrase?? are u asking why i didnt vote??
cause i was absent just before deadline...

Yeah that's what I meant. Thanks for answering.

ill have a think about stuff, i think this setup mite be bit different to a normal theme game....just the gameplay and stuff

I believe you are right. IIRC it was stated before the game that it would have some unusual mechanics and I think that that is important to keep in mind while we play the game.

[Pug89]

glad we agree.
so does this mean adel is no longer pro town??

Right now there's no way to determine if Adele's alignment has changed or not, It's possible she just hade a one time ressurection and it didn't affect her alignment.

[Pug89]

4. Avoids voting day 1, but says Monkey is a good lynch (post 114 and (126). It also appears that he would vote closer to the deadline but wanted to avoid someone sneaking in and hammer Monkey (post 161) and then tries to move on to the "safe" topic of the day talking about Jean Grey turning Phoenix.

This bothered be some too and if Monkey had turned up scum I would probably be voting for him too, but since Monkey turned up town and was so close to lynch I'm inclined to think lovo14, and Johoohno as well, is town. He could have easily placed the hammer vote on monkey and not drawn much suspicion, at least from me, since he had previously stated his intent to vote for him and the town largely was against a NL. Of course it's possible that he is scum who intended to place the hammer vote on Monkey and didn't have access to the site before deadline like he said when I asked him about it.

This is why I think it is likely that at least one scum was on Monkey's wagon. Of the 5 people who voted for Monkey, I know I'm town and I think Adele is town as well for the balancing reasons discussed previously, which assumes Adele was town previously, but it seems likely given her role. I will likely be voting for one of the remaining three (farside22, Lloyd, and logicticus) but I need to take a closer look before making my decision.

[Pug89]

I like your point about the vote against Monkey, but we can't assume because someone didn't hammer that doesn't mean anything.

I agree, but at the time of my post it is the strongest lead I had found but there might be reasons scum might not have hammered on a townie.

ok so your main reason for voting me is because i didnt hammer someone on day 1.

The main reason isn't because you didn't hammer but because you are inconsistant on the reason why you didn't vote for him when you said you probably would. You aren't just inconsistant from post to post but within post. In you last post you posted both:

the day in question was fricken forever ago. i might have been here i might not have been. i dont track my life according to mafia games.

and

day in question i was playing baseball all day so i wasnt around for the lynch.

[Pug89]

vote: lovo14

He has too many inconsistancies and he became way to defensive over the whole hammer issue.

[Pug89]

You know I had thought you would take your own advice and look into the day one vote, but you didn't and now you went from thinking lovo was town to calling him inconsistance. I am calling you a hypocrite.
I think lovo is inconsitant in his comments as well, but I don't like pugs comment and vote and would like an explanation.

I'm not allowed to change my mind? At the time of the post you quote I didn't see much to go on in terms of whom to vote. I'm still keeping that in mind but lovo's actions after that post have lead me to vote for him. The main reason I thought he was probably town was because he could have easily hammered when he didn't, but if he didn't have access to the internet at the time it's a moot point. Lovo14 has continually changed his story of whether he was around or not at the time of lynch. He originally said he was away from his computer and changed his story several times; as if he is trying to change is story to appear more town.

[Pug89]

Hmm, yes the fog. Let's leave that alone and move back to suspicions. I for one need to reread, especially to get a new take on lovo14 (not sure if I trust his claim or not, although I like him a bit better now than in my last post).

I agree with this, I don't think speculation of the fog is going to be much use right now, but one thing on a roleblocker:

ok so i was role blocked. which does look hell suss.

I don't think you being role blocked is necessarily suspicious. A roleblocker could just as easily be town as it could be scum, but I could see a protown blocker blocking you based on your actions yesterday.

No matter what we can't have a NL today. I'm going to do a reread and post my suspicions later.

[Pug89]

I am waiting on Pug to answer my question. By the way I apologize for the no lynch I was not paying attention to the time of the deadline, but with the late claim and non answers I was getting from Pug I didn't feel Lovo was the right lynch.

I already responded to your question (in post 209) unless there was something after that I missed, but to restate my reasoning: My main reason for thinking lovo is protown was invalidated by the fact the he didn't purposly choose not to hammer but was simply not around (at least according to him) and his inconsistancy was a far more concrete reason to vote for someone than my suspicions (which I still have) about the voting on day 1.

but to put him at L-1 so quickly makes me question you.

This is from Day 2 but I wanted to adress it. I don't think I put him at L-1. Lovo had ample opportunity to explain himself and there were only 2 days till deadline; I think he was the best lynch for yesterday given what we knew.

[Pug89]

In fact, I suggest a role name claim only. This might at least trigger some discussion and ideas because we stagnant really really bad.

I think this is a good idea because we need to move pretty quickly, deadline is in about a week and a half.

Farside, what do you think about logicticus's idea?

[Pug89]

Yes your vote put lovo at L-1. I found it a quick vote because it didn't really say anything but a vote and I had to ask you about it.
My vote stands because all I saw was a rush to vote without reason and felt your vote with your earlier comments don't match.

I didn't say much else in the specific post where I voted for lovo but I had previously commented on lovo's suspicious activity before. I have explained myself several times to you before but you continue to insist I placed a rush vote on lovo without explaination and that is not the case.

Does anyone else feel the same way as farside? No one else has really brought it up.

[Pug89]

I'm not sure if it will make much of a difference but

Vote: logicticus

because of his recent actions and he was one of those on the bandwagon day 1.

[Pug89]

May I ask what recent actions in particular or did that just sound better when you posted it?

I most refering to your post previous to the one quoted above, it just seemed off to me.

[Pug89]

Actually I don't think there is a SK. I know this is completely unsolicited but at this point I think it's best we have as much information as possible and I think this might be important. I'm Rouge, I don't have any active powers but if I am targeted at night that player will be killed (I think Darla/Prof X is the exception). I don't have any way of knowing for sure but I think one of last nights deaths (Johoohno's) was a result of this.

[Pug89]

Actually I don't think there is a SK. I know this is completely unsolicited but at this point I think it's best we have as much information as possible and I think this might be important. I'm Rouge, I don't have any active powers but if I am targeted at night that player will be killed (I think Darla/Prof X is the exception). I don't have any way of knowing for sure but I think one of last nights deaths (Johoohno's) was a result of this.

darla was killed last night how do you figure Johoohno targeted you with only one town person killed and one scum?

Like I said I don't know for sure that is the case but since there were at least two scum one could kill while the other RBs.

[Pug89]

Pug, I targeted you last night. You have some explaining to do.

Exactly what did you target me for?
I've said everything I know about my role. It's possible your another exception, like Darla/Prof X, but two in one game seems unlikely.


Just to make it clear I think Prof X is an exception to this because lovo said:

all i got in my role pm was that it goes unnoticed i made an assumption to mean that im not tracked/watched by someone else.

I don't know for sure but I think that meant that if he targeted me he would not die because there is no physical contact.

[Pug89]

I'm slightly leaning towards voting for Lloyd at the moment because having two people immune to my ability as well as both town and scum Role Blockers seems overpowered, but there is no way to confirm is ability. I want to take a closer look at everyone left in the game before voting.

[Pug89]

It seems unlikely that we have unnightkillables. I'm leaning toward voting for Pug.

I never said I was unnightillable, as far as I know I'm not. If I were targeted for a NK I suspect both of us would die but I have no way of knowing for sure unless it happens. I don't like you making this assumption.

I have been suspicious of Pug for a couple of days do to his votes and lack of real scum hunting this game.

I've explained my actions to you (sometimes more than once) yet you never seem satisfied with my explanations while your arguments against me are often vague (such as the quote above).

[Pug89]

My role is Morpheus. I am not scum, but this role was weird to me and I thought for sure by telling everyone about it that I would either be lynched or killed.
Once per game I can target a player and addapt their role. (Basically I could use there role and target someone with their ability). I haven't used it yet.

I find this incredibly suspicious. First, you lied about your role. Second, I did a quick search on wikipedia and the character of Morpheus in the main character from the Sandman comics, which is a DC comic and has no connection to the X-men. I'll post more tomorrow but I'm very close to voting for farside.

[Pug89]

I'm going to go ahead and add my vote to WLC's

Vote: farside22

Besides the above mentioned issues with her role claim she has also been gunning for me the past few days with what I feel is a week case when I have explained myself more than once( I admit I may be biased on this point but it feels off to me)

[Pug89]

I have a suspicion that all 3 of you may be scum...Suppose there were 4 scums in this game (farside22, Johoonoo, Adele / WLC, Pug89)...

That would balance out with how everyone seems to have a power:

lovo: invisible tracker / watcher - xavier
me: invisible blocker - iceman
monkey: day vig - cyclops
korts: doctor? - beast
thephantom: hider? - shadowcat
ooba: cop? - gambit
logiticus: unnightkillable - wolverine

If that were the case wouldn't the game already be over?

[Pug89]

I need to take a closer look at both of you before making a decision, but I'm leaning towards Lloyd right now. On the other hand I feel WLC as been assumed to be town because of the events earlier in the game and that could be a dangerous assumption.

[Pug89]

Vote: Lloyd

I hope this is the right choice. There is no way to confirm is role since it supposedly goes unnoticed but we at least have confirmation of WLC's role name. Also his conjecture that both of the remaining players beside him are scum just seems like an attempt to sow confusion.