Mini 552: X-Men mafia (Game Over!)

[Lloyd]

Vote Korts

[Lloyd]

Sooo, how do we start about playing a game with a theme like this? This is my first theme game, so do help out.

I tend find themes more fun to play than regulars, because unknown game mechanics adds a new element of surprise. Along the way, I learn about characters in the themes' mythologies that I wouldn't have learned about otherwise.

[Lloyd]

You are the only two players to make mentions about the two added rules - namely about the 40 page posting limit and the 3 week deadlines.

Since we're discussing rules, I like rule #9, the one that prohibits mod communications in this game.

[Lloyd]

Monkey, I know we're here to find scum, but not much else at the moment. Is there something specific you're asking about?

Korts, I like rule #9 because it helps prevents accidental mod errors from affecting games.

[Lloyd]

Vote Korts

Korts voted two people quickly, so I decided to vote for him.

[Lloyd]

Korts,

Here's an example of a mod error that led to a game being halted at:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=140

It's very rare, but it does happen at times, even to the best mods.

[Lloyd]

ooba decided to jump on when Pug had already shown up

I disagree with your scrutiny, because ooba's vote then seems reasonable to me.

[Lloyd]

yer i usually have one on forums. just havent got round to it for this one...will do in a sec

You find an avatar yet per Adele's request?

[Lloyd]

ooba, I'm not sure if you're asking me or lovo14.

I was suspicious of Korts, hence I kept my vote on him. I had thought Monkey's "kill Korts" bolding was a joke, so I didn't comment on it then.

Since Korts is now dead, and hindsight is 20-20...I think some of you are being too hard on Monkey. Had Korts turned up as scum, you may feel differently.

In short, I don't think Monkey's kill was that terrible of a play at the time, because we didn't have much else to go on then, and Korts' claim did seem premature. I was voting to lynch Korts anyway.

[Lloyd]

dayvig, daysk or scum with daykill? The power itself is on the scummy side of balance and I don't like the use of it.

I disagree about the power itself. You're attributing scumminess based on the power itself, regardless of how it was used?

Unvote

Vote: Adele

[Lloyd]

Bear in mind, people, that it's 6 to deadline lynch too.

Unvote

Vote: Monkey

I'd rather lynch than not.

As for the day kill power, I've seen some townies with it. Fritzler comes to mind as someone I've seen in a few game who played the role of day vigs.

As for day kill mechanics...I like allowing vig to shoot early and whenever. I was a vig once who killed a godfather on night 0, whose death outed a scum on day 1. While it sucked for the godfather who died early on night 0, I enjoyed being able to vig randomly on night 0. It was fun for me.

[Lloyd]

My reason for the vote for Monkey is that I rather lynch than not. No lynch is a bad idea.

The other part about day vig is simply my commentary about vigging.

[Lloyd]

poor Monkey. Didn't see that coming.

I'm confused by what you mean. Were you expecting something to happen to Monkey?

Also: Oh Crap. I need to do some research on my situation.

I've only seen resurrections in Back to Gambits 1 and 2.

In both Back to Gambits games, there were two types of resurrections:
- The Vampire (initially town), when nightkilled, had the choice to resurrect into a Werewolf (and turning into scum)
- The doctors (Archangel and Sorcerer) could resurrect someone who died on previous nights

Vote Count:

No one voting anyone yet.

8 alive, 5 to lynch!

[Lloyd]

@Everyone, we had 2 deaths yesterday - thephantom and adele so i'm guessing there are 2 scum groups. 2 Mafia + 1 lone SK seems probable. (A vig is also a possibility since it was the phantom who was killed but i'm discounting that cause Day vig + Night vig = game over pretty quickly) .. This is another point against adele not being scum since there are already two groups present..

I don't follow your point. How would it exclude Adele from being in one of the two groups that you described?

[Lloyd]

there are alot of role claims going around at the moment

Besides Korts, what other claims are you referring to? I don't consider Adele's role a claim, since the mod revealed her as Jean Grey.

[Lloyd]

putting someone on -1 is extremely scummy on day 1 so i did the right thing

It's odd how you are more concerned about possibly looking scummy yourself, than the reason why you would vote for someone who seems suspicious to you.

When I think someone is suspicious and I vote for them, I think more about articulating my arguments why I think they're scummy, rather than how my vote would be perceived.

there are alot of role claims going around at the moment

Besides Korts, what other claims are you referring to? I don't consider Adele's role a claim, since the mod revealed her as Jean Grey.

Re-quoting in case you missed my question the first time.

[Lloyd]

even if someone is suspicious to me, putting them at -1 with 48 hours left in the day is scummy, there is no realy need for it. as scum can come hammer. or someone can come and mishammer.

Suppose we reach a 48 hour deadline, are you going to not vote again?

[Lloyd]

ialso because of telepathy i do this unnoticed ie in mafia terms pretty sure i can be blocked or tracked if there is another tracker

ok so i was role blocked.

above sentences are confusing at best, and contradictory at worst.

- if you can be blocked or tracked, then how is it unnoticed?

- if you meant to write "cannot" instead of "can", then it contradicts your second sentence

[Lloyd]

I suggest a role name claim only.

I don't see what it would accomplish

(with the mod change over) is it possible a mistake was made.

I highly doubt it, because Sir Tornado wanted to avoid potential modwifom

i tracked ooba for reference

That's suspicious
- If you are un-track-able, then no one can confirm your claim
- If you are track-able, then someone could confirm your claim, but your target died

It seems like you have cover stories for both scenarios, which seems too good to be true

no one (inc myself) is active enuf

You complain about inaction and even makes a self-reference - that is simply wifom-ish scummy

Vote: lovo14

for combination of above reasons.

[Lloyd]

- I don't support a name claim: Name claim is simply flavor and doesn't accomplish much.

While we could potentially catch scums claiming someone else's name, it could also backfire, like what happened to Korts on day 1 in this game.

- I don't support a scum list from everyone:

An aggregated scum list could potentially be used by scums to determine night actions. Hence, I think a scum list from everyone is a bad idea.

[Lloyd]

look at all my games i rarely vote day 1

In this game, you only voted on day 1.

my role does seem to good to be true.

I'm confused why you haven't voted since day 1. Do you have a vote restriction?

more people could weigh in on my opinion of WeyounsLastClone (and Adele)

I was suspicious of Adele on day 1, but since day 2, I've become less suspicious of her due to:

A scum who resurrects (once?) on a night kill is fine, but a scum who resurrects on a night kill AND kills a townie in the process seems overpowered again.

I agree with ooba's reasoning above in explaining why Adele / WeyounsLastClone is most likely not scum based on game mechanics.

[Lloyd]

I would like the name claim to be made in this order (first on list = first to claim):

I disagree with your proposal. A Pop-corn style - claimer-chooses-next-person - seems more fair than a pre-determined list.

@ llyod my role does seem to good to be true. i can either track or watch someone and apparantly do it unnoiticed.

I can confirm (how much you guys believe idk) that my role is indeed Professor X, and is a Watcher and or Tracker who goes unnoticed because I do so from home.

Do you agree or disagree with lovo on the point that your role seems too good to be true?

[Lloyd]

Pug, I targeted you last night. You have some explaining to do.

[Lloyd]

I am Iceman. I freeze / roleblock people at night. My power goes unnoticed, but I have a restriction. I have to submit my choice ahead of time before the day ends.

My choices were:
Day 1 -> Night 1 - Farside
Day 2 -> Night 2 - Adele / WLC
Day 3 -> Night 3 - Pug

I chose Pug yesterday because he seems the hardest to read of everyone.

I chose Adele / you on day 2 because Adele mentioned possibly turning into dark phoenix.

I chose farside on day 1 because she was vote-hopping.

I asked lovo about his power being too good to be true, because he also claimed to have unnoticeable powers, yet he never mentioned having to submit choices ahead of time during the day, and that seems a bit suspicious.

My power does seem to go unnoticed because lovo said I went nowhere on night 1, despite me submittiing a target.

[Lloyd]

WLC, do you have a power and night choices to claim? Or, are you claiming vanilla?

[Lloyd]

im a townie who is unnightkillable

if I am targeted at night that player will be killed

It seems unlikely that we have unnightkillables. I'm leaning toward voting for Pug.

[Lloyd]

im a townie who is unnightkillable

if I am targeted at night that player will be killed (I think Darla/Prof X is the exception). I don't have any way of knowing for sure but I think one of last nights deaths (Johoohno's) was a result of this.

It seems unlikely that we have unnightkillables. I'm leaning toward voting for Pug.

I never said I was unnightillable, as far as I know I'm not. If I were targeted for a NK I suspect both of us would die but I have no way of knowing for sure unless it happens. I don't like you making this assumption.

Pug, you're now backtracking.

If you think you caused one of last night's deaths, and you're alive, didn't you infer that you are unnightkillable?

[Lloyd]

Pug, I finally understand what you mean: You think that you killed someone last night by targeting you, but not via a nightkill target.

[Lloyd]

farside, it's not a contradiction. I already explained that I blocked unnoticed, just like lovo targeted me unnoticed.

OK, lets try following your line of logic: Hypothetically...Suppose I only sat around (and didn't block at all) as lovo said, then either you or Pug are probably lying. How in the world did we have 3 kills (Phantom, Adele, Monkey) on night 1?

[Lloyd]

I don't know why lovo got a no info on ooba. I blocked Adele on night 2.

[Lloyd]

Before day 1 ended, I sent Sir Tornado a PM to freeze you. When day 1 ends and night 1 starts, you become frozen. My block goes unnoticed, so lovo14 saw me go nowhere.

[Lloyd]

I have a suspicion that all 3 of you may be scum...Suppose there were 4 scums in this game (farside22, Johoonoo, Adele / WLC, Pug89)...

That would balance out with how everyone seems to have a power:

lovo: invisible tracker / watcher - xavier
me: invisible blocker - iceman
monkey: day vig - cyclops
korts: doctor? - beast
thephantom: hider? - shadowcat
ooba: cop? - gambit
logiticus: unnightkillable - wolverine

[Lloyd]

On the off-chance that both of you are scums like another game I replaced into, then I'm screwed either way.

50 / 50 % ... I probably picked the right person to block last night.

That's who I'm leaning toward voting for, but I won't say which one of you just yet.

Any thoughts before we hit the 40 page limit?

[Lloyd]

If Pug and I would both be scum, the game would already be over, right?

I'm not so sure. You two could be scums of different factions - That's what happened to me in another game.

See BM's Mystery Mafia where I lost because I voted.

I blocked you last night, and there were no kills. That leads me to think you're probably scum.

If both of you happen to be scums, then argh, maybe I'll win a mafia award for most games lost due to voting.

[Lloyd]

Lloyd did you target WLC or not. I knew he was the SK.

I blocked & targeted WLC. WLC must have had 2 night kill protections (night 1 + night 4).

I tried, but I couldn't convince Pug to vote the other way.

I believe Pug was telling the truth, due to ThePhantom's slip about not going out on night 1. In re-reading that + Pug's claim, I was convinced that Pug was telling the truth, and anyone targeting Pug would probably die.

I let your slip up being Shadowcat go unnoticed, but WLC found it anyway. As for not self lynching, I suppose the game would could drag on for another day. It's unclear how many night protections WLC had (he has at least 2, maybe more?)

[Lloyd]

Pug was in the un-envitable position that I was in the other game, where he loses as long as he votes.

I tried foreshadow scenario by linking to it, but Pug decided to vote anyway. For what it's worth, I would have voted in Pug's situation then lose the game due to voting.

Since there were no kills the previous night, there were no guarantees that scums could kill each other (seems more like a deadlock until votes happen during the day)

[Lloyd]

Storm was a blocker too, once every 3 nights, Johoohno can cast fog that blocks all but teammates. That's how lovo was blocked.

My block is each night by freezing, restriction to submit name during the day, but I go unnoticed.

Yes, 2 role blockers, on the same team. I think 2 role blockers on different teams seems like a more likely setup, but we got 2 role blockers on the same team in this setup.

We took ooba's game balance concerns of you not possibly being scum (resurrection + kill townie in process) way too far, and it hurt us in the end.

[Lloyd]

wlc, who did you kill (if anyone)?

[Lloyd]

If it is okay with Lloyd and Farside I wouldn't mind distributing the quick topic thread with our scum notes.

I don't mind you sharing the notes

[Lloyd]

Once you are Pheonix force, you gain a fixed amount NK immunity (determined by a formula) and get the ability to kill at night.

What's the formula?