PIRATES v. NINJAS! Game Over!

[Gorrad]

Thesp, I did retract #2 in 427.

[Erg0]

Finally had time for that reread, but it's actually something that happened

after

my last post that grabbed me.

Vote: Guardian

Apparently what was actually needed to convince him was a bunch of other people agreeing with me.

Very

sudden turn on the Iammars issue.

Apparently what was actually needed to convince me was you elaborating and repeating your argument in emphatic terms.

Very

suspicious play by Thesp, too....

Who are these "bunch of other people agreeing with you" before I decided to unvote Iammars and vote Thesp -- people who started agreeing with you between the time I last responded to you, and when I changed my mind?

Honestly, I didn't think that anything that I said after your echo of Thesp's request for elaboration was particularly fresh or insightful. Mostly I was just beating Thesp (and, by extension, you) over the head with exactly the same argument that I'd already made. I was very surprised by your sudden change of heart - I was arguing more for the benefit of the room than the individuals I was addressing by that point.

There was a general groundswell of support for my point of view (if not my specific argument) around that time. Examples are Twomz in 186, Claus in 188, Mgm in 207, Samruc in 208, and Skruffs in 212. My theory is that you saw which way the wind was blowing and decided to beat the rush off the wagon. To me, this indicates that you never believed paricularly strongly in the wagon in the first place.

[Guardian]

Erg0, two points:

First, you've indicated coorelation, and sure you can assume causation, but that isn't the case -- repeating your arguments emphatically made me reconsider staying on the wagon.

Second, how strongly do you think I believed in the wagon in the first place? When people asked me about this, I said "I think my vote is in a good place for now." I Never said OMG Mars=Scumz lynch lynch/dayvig! If you read my posts carefully I was never that fervent about lynching Iammars, but his was among the first substantial wagons, and I thought the evidence I uncovered was the best we had to go on at the time.

From my perspective, your voting me for this is in essence persecuting me for being proactive and trying to get out of the random/noise stage.

[Guardian]

I meant I wanted you to respond to the rest of my post http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 405#907405

I disagree with your assessment, and I don't see what's worth "respond[ing] to". Defenses are overrated anyway.

Well, I differ with you greatly, and I'm not going to be quiet about it. Especially your not being able to do as Erg0 suggested and put yourself in Iammars shoes -- I find it hard to believe you have such limited imaginative powers.

That hypothetical alone convinced me it was time to leave the wagon -- your refusing to get anything out of it made me quite suspicious.

Also, Erg0 started making a lot of sense about Iammars, and Thesp's:

I'll try a hypothetical: if you were in the position that you believe Mars to be in, would you have done the same thing that you believe he did? Why or why not?

I don't know, nor can I know.

Seems off -- if I was in the position I believe Mars to be in, I don't think I'd confirm with pirate flavor, it would be making far too great an assumption, knowing Stoofer. I could see

someone

making the mistake, but basing our lynch off of that with no other info about Iammars.. seems wrong, now. And I find it odd Thesp couldn't put himself in Iammars shoes with any degree of accuracy.

Additionally, I find your "disbelief of Gorrad" to be hard to reconcile with the post of this I quoted.

Then I looked at this tidbit, that seemed very disingenuous to me:

I wasn't very suspicious, no. I understood were people were coming from, but the basis of the wagon was so weak that I figured it had to be a trap I would be interrupting again by pointing out. I never intended to vote for him.

I don't believe this for a moment. I hope a vig has good sense and kills you dead tonight.

Considering Gorrad's original thoughts on the wagon:

I see where people are coming from on the Iammars wagon, but I think it's kind of weak reasoning.

FoS: Iammars

. Iammars, thoughts?

Above all,

we deserve an explanation from Thesp about why he sees an Iammars-Gorrad link.

He was strongly in favor of it earlier, to my knowledge still is, and has yet to proffer any evidence of such a connection or retract his statement.

Why did you get that suspicion? It seemed like you got it when active players started to vote for you.

I do agree as to the coincidence of that timing - for me it coincided with the time when you and I were particularly vocal, and it seemed like there was a lot of sound and fury about people whom I was beginning to think were more likely to be pro-town. It feels like to me there are a lot of players in this game who

still

have not made significant contributions (which I think indicates at least a slightly stronger indication for scum), and I am sensitive to your earlier suggestion that D1 not exceed 20 pages.

What do you mean by sensitive? The word is ambiguous in its connotation.

Guardian, what do you think about Gorrad? What do you think about Mgm?

I haven't seen a centralized case on Gorrad that convinces me of anything about his alignment, and think much of the wagon on him is groupthink. I also believe that your stance on the bit I just quoted is confused at best, and that people, in relying on that, are using a shaky bedrock for a wagon.

MGM's play has seemed very superficial and he has been going for "available"/easy targets. I'm equally unimpressed with the depth of his thinking. I'm not sure to what extent, if any, this has to say about his alignment, however.

[Thesp]

Well, I differ with you greatly, and I'm not going to be quiet about it. Especially your not being able to do as Erg0 suggested and put yourself in Iammars shoes -- I find it hard to believe you have such limited imaginative powers.

I

did

put myself in Iammars's shoes, and came up with a different conclusion/possibility than you did. I suspect "limited imaginative powers" could arise from your conclusion as well, but it would be insulting and unnecessary. I think this is an area where rational people can be of differing minds on a subject. Do you?

Why did you get that suspicion? It seemed like you got it when active players started to vote for you.

I do agree as to the coincidence of that timing - for me it coincided with the time when you and I were particularly vocal, and it seemed like there was a lot of sound and fury about people whom I was beginning to think were more likely to be pro-town. It feels like to me there are a lot of players in this game who

still

have not made significant contributions (which I think indicates at least a slightly stronger indication for scum), and I am sensitive to your earlier suggestion that D1 not exceed 20 pages.

What do you mean by sensitive? The word is ambiguous in its connotation.

I appreciate where it comes from, and think it wise. I think it impossible to achieve now, but I think that two to four monopolizing the conversation is unproductive in many, many ways (some of which cicero has hit upon). (And yet I'm doing it anyway. Curses, me!)

Guardian, what do you think about Gorrad? What do you think about Mgm?

I haven't seen a centralized case on Gorrad that convinces me of anything about his alignment, and think much of the wagon on him is groupthink. I also believe that your stance on the bit I just quoted is confused at best, and that people, in relying on that, are using a shaky bedrock for a wagon.

You still haven't answered the question. What do

you

think?

Gorrad, what do you think of Mgm?

Mgm, what do you think of Gorrad?

Iammars, what are your thoughts?

I need to poke around and pull more people into the conversation - I'll try to do that tomorrow. (Of course, you people out there shouldn't need my prompting to do so.)

[Gorrad]

I don't like Mgm's posts in general, but I don't find them outstandingly scummy, just unhelpful. Honestly, if he actually hunted more, I'd have him smack dab in the middle of no-tell zone.

[Twomz]

Twomz, I am getting more and more suspicious of you. Every time you've posted in this thread its about how the game is giving you a headache and you don't feel like you're actually producing anything. This is true, you're not producing anything. I feel like it's almost become a smoke shield that you're using to avoid posting content. And for someone who has not added particularly anything to the day thusfar, I expect better than a one sentence blip about an argument that has already been made as an excuse to vote the player with the most number of votes.

If you've played with me before you know that I am like this every game for the first day or so. But, I put my vote on Gorrad over Thesp because I believe there is more merit in the case against Gorrad than there is against Thesp (as I have pointed out in my posts).

PS: I have found that I am more likely to post actual content with people attacking me for not posting content, that is why it doesn't bother me that much anymore (I guess I post better under pressure or something, or that I don't ever post better and I am just telling myself that so that I don't cry myself to sleep from a feeling of inadequacy).

[Mr Stoofer]

He's Alive! Aliiiiiive!

From the diary of Victor Frankenstein

-- It is now some hours since I was transported from my laboratory to this strange place. I have checked all my equipment -- which by some miracle was transported with me. It all seems to have survived the trip unscathed.

Accordingly, I have set up my equipment and decided to carry out my first trials on one of the dead bodies that I found here when I arrived. He is a young man, a farm boy by the looks of things, dressed in khaki with a large brown cloak. The circumstances are not ideal, but I feel that if I do not now seek to put my theories into practice, I may never get the chance. I appear to be stuck in some strange metaphysical battle which threatens to destroy my equipment, and all my work, if I do not put it to the test now.

Later

-- The experiment seems to have been a success... the farm boy is awake... but the... the... took so much out of me... so tired...

---

MrBuddyLee has been resurrected

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Gorrad: 8 (Fritzler, Flameaxe, The Fonz, Kison, Thestatusquo, Thesp, Claus, Twomz)
Thesp: 4 (Guardian, hasdgfas, Gorrad, Mgm)
Skruffs: 2 (Samruc, KaleiÐoscøpe)
Iammars: 2 (Sir Tornado, mikeburnfire)
cicero: 2 (Iammars, UltimaAvalon)
UltimaAvalon: 1 (JordanA24)
Claus: 1 (cicero)
Thestatusquo: 1 (Thok)
Guardian: 1 (Erg0)

Not voting: 3 (Skruffs, Rosso Carne, MrBuddyLee)

13 to lynch!

Deadline will be ~13th February.

Under Rule [05], nobody would be lynched at deadline.

[Claus]

O.O

Okay.

[Mgm]

Mgm, what do you think of Gorrad?

I've shared my thoughts on the Iammars wagon before and how Gorrad tries to reason it to be a good wagon makes me suspect of him. However, since he is less experienced than you (Thesp) as far as I can determine, He's level-pegging with Guardian in my list of top suspects.

MGM's play has seemed very superficial and he has been going for "available"/easy targets. I'm equally unimpressed with the depth of his thinking. I'm not sure to what extent, if any, this has to say about his alignment, however.

Yes, you're totally correct, my play is totally superficial and unimpressive and it's not impressing me either. That's because it's day 1 with very little solid information to go on. It's going to be a lot better day 2.

[Gorrad]

[quote="Mgm"]I've shared my thoughts on the Iammars wagon before and how Gorrad tries to reason it to be a good wagon makes me suspect of him./quote]

This right here? This is an example of just not paying attention.

[Thesp]

MGM's play has seemed very superficial and he has been going for "available"/easy targets. I'm equally unimpressed with the depth of his thinking. I'm not sure to what extent, if any, this has to say about his alignment, however.

Yes, you're totally correct, my play is totally superficial and unimpressive and it's not impressing me either. That's because it's day 1 with very little solid information to go on. It's going to be a lot better day 2.

This line of thought simply

must

go away from every mafia player's line of thought.

This is never a good excuse. This is a cop-out.

[Thesp]

Resurrect: MBL

I feel the need to resurrect you as a vig and as Luke Skywalker. So kill people for me.

Protip: Jordan.

Also, now I can say this:

WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU RESURRECT A VIG OVER AN APPARENT COP-LIKE FIGURE? Especially a cop that...nevermind.

I know your penchant for vigs, but geez, you've got to try to play well, here, and I think this was a substandard play.

[UltimaAvalon]

Heh. This game just keeps getting better and better.

Welcome back Luke.

Kill bad guys.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm back from the afterlife. Yoda sends hugs.

Fritz, Mace Windu gave me a wallet to give you--says BAD MOTHER****** on it.

All, I should be alive a few days assuming our town doctor has any common sense. You have no reason to trust me when I say this, but I have not switched alignment upon resurrection.

*dons hood, swings light saber around like a buffoon*

[Thesp]

All, I should be alive a few days assuming our town doctor has any common sense. You have no reason to trust me when I say this, but I have not switched alignment upon resurrection.

I didn't even think about alignment switching. Hmm.

Also, I think the doc should do whatever the heck they want.

Aside from the aggravation I have here at this play, welcome, MBL!

[MrBuddyLee]

Oh, also, without further ado, I believe this town has spoken:

dayvig: Gorrad

Better say your goodbyes before Stoofer posts--as I learned when I died, you're not allowed to even say "BAH!" after you're dead.

Everyone else please weigh in ASAP before Gorrad's alignment is known:

1) Was that a good vig or a bad vig?

2) Thesp is public enemy #2. Should we run him up next?

[hasdgfas]

Is that a day-ending dayvig or a we still get a lynch dayvig?

[hasdgfas]

you also didn't let him claim.

[UltimaAvalon]

I agree with hasdgcow 100%. You should've at least let the man make some sort of claim or...something

[Fritzler]

If this is real, my sacrifice was definitely worth it.

[Thesp]

I don't believe MrBuddyLee for a moment.

I also think, if this is indeed genuine, that this play was not wise, as noted by hasdgfas.

Note to everyone: Just because you

can

do cool things doesn't mean you

should

do cool things.

[MrBuddyLee]

Everyone else please weigh in ASAP before Gorrad's alignment is known:

1) Was that a good vig or a bad vig?

2) Thesp is public enemy #2. Should we run him up next?

Fritzler made his opinion clear. The other two of you, please state yours plainly. Everyone else who posts, please answer these questions or you will become a vig candidate.

The ability to destroy a scumbag is insignificant next to the power of the force.

[UltimaAvalon]

Note to everyone: Just because you

can

do cool things doesn't mean you

should

do cool things.

Here, I disagree. If I had daykill powers, I'd use it day 1. What if I got Nightkilled Night 1 and never got to use it? I'd be seriously pissed off. And when will I get awesome daykill powers ever again?