After Hawk flipped scum Aubrey was basically confirmed town. If you don't think so explain why. Right after you provide the case on me you haven't made yet (unless I've missed it).
Nonono. You dont get to do that.
Because you:
- suspected aubrey enough to vote for him
- have suggested literally that you believe both of Hawk's mafia partners bussed him
Therefore, why was aubrey confirmed town? Hawk's flip cant possibly make him confirmed town to you since aubrey would have the most reason to bus as mafia (as he was the counterwagon to hawk's initially).
I'll get back to you later when off work BV.
Fitz is again showing characteristics of saying one thing but suddenly it doesnt apply anymore unless it fits his agenda.
While I'm wary of Cass, I think 1398 showed pride in having "correctly" read Hawk as town - and it's true, she did townread Hawk since replacing in. I don't think it was an entirely unreasonable read. Hawk made some very good, introspective, reflective posts. I do want to know why vote Hawk over Kop if you were so sure that I was scum and I was hard-pushing Hawk. You never wondered that I might be scum partnered with Kop and was pushing Hawk as a counterwagon? 660 and 865 looked like town genuinely having a townread. My biggest concern with Cass is that she reminds me a lot of how the scumteam in Mini 1843 (Cloudkicker, MariaR, and Sotty7) played. There were a ton of over-the-top genuine-sounding interactions and hard-defending. If Cass is from Epic-Mafia, I'd be fairly confident she's scum, otherwise leaning town but somewhat of a tossup. I'll have to come back to this as I'm mostly dismissing her as town for that reaction in twilight.
Summary - There's no way Creature is scum. KidAmn's interactions with Hawk are unremarkable but his posts by itself seem town. Cass is tough to read and I'm setting her aside for later but I'm leaning towards that reaction after Hawk's lynch being slightly town.
i townread kop at that point in time (he felt like lynchbait and casting any suspicion on him at that point /could/ have got his wagon moving) but ive changed my mind now on the basis that i should have made him work for the read (perils of replacing in...), and aubrey nka indicates him (fitz is still better though because fitz reads like scum to begin with and kop with anyone else seems to be a stretch)
and no, ive never even visited epicmafia, and the only experience on ms with a player from that site (that im aware of) was incredibly frustrating (it was similar to how i felt about ooo earlier this dayphase -- and it was a scumslot)
and that reaction was me being frustrated that i tell everyone exactly how things are gonna be and all available signs say: here we go down that road, yall done fucked up EXACTLY the way i described, good job! but the plot-twist in the flip threw me for a loop and i STILL dont see scum in hawks ISO, so for today ill sheep you if you want to push tbh
After Hawk flipped scum Aubrey was basically confirmed town. If you don't think so explain why. Right after you provide the case on me you haven't made yet (unless I've missed it).
Nonono. You dont get to do that.
Because you:
- suspected aubrey enough to vote for him
- have suggested literally that you believe both of Hawk's mafia partners bussed him
Therefore, why was aubrey confirmed town? Hawk's flip cant possibly make him confirmed town to you since aubrey would have the most reason to bus as mafia (as he was the counterwagon to hawk's initially).
Okay, this is an excellent point that can't be ignored. He was already a scum read for most people but then he goes out and completely flips on what has been his supposed goal the whole game. This reeks of a hidden agenda. And I don't need to explain the reasons why. That is a scum tactic right there. Avoid having to come up with sensible town reasoning and make people think it would be stupid to ask.
After Hawk flipped scum Aubrey was basically confirmed town. If you don't think so explain why. Right after you provide the case on me you haven't made yet (unless I've missed it).
Nonono. You dont get to do that.
Because you:
- suspected aubrey enough to vote for him
- have suggested literally that you believe both of Hawk's mafia partners bussed him
Therefore, why was aubrey confirmed town? Hawk's flip cant possibly make him confirmed town to you since aubrey would have the most reason to bus as mafia (as he was the counterwagon to hawk's initially).
Because:
I suspected Aubrey enough to prefer him to a no-lynch combined with the compelling Aubrey case/vote BV made that was also supported by Creature/hapa and Hawk. Why can I not, in hindsight, say Aubrey was "basically confirmed town" in light of the facts from D1? 1) He was the pre-counter wagon to scum!Hawk. He was the post-counter-wagon to TBD but highly suspected!hapa wagon.
If Aubrey was to remain in consideration as a scum suspect one would have to believe that Hawk was scum with hapa and Aubrey as Hawk could have easily stayed off scum!Aubrey and put hapa at an equal vote count to Aubrey (4 votes) or laid low and not put a vote down on Aubrey at all in hopes of gaining a mislynch. And once BV unvoted Aubrey and the Aubrey wagon started to disintegrate..a Hawk move on to the hapa wagon would have put hapa ahead of Aubrey.
So you can nononono all you want but IMO after the shifts in wagons and Hawk's scum flip...Aubrey was basically confirmed town. And if you disagree....why would you agree withmy comment the NK of Aubrey doesn't implicate anyone which WAS BASED on the fact Aubrey was basically confirmed town? You are trying to have it both ways. Agreeing that no one can be implicated in Aubrey's nk while using my basis for that observation as fuel to implicate me.
As for your second point...you need to learn the definition of literally. I did not literally suggest both Hawk's partners were bussing him. I literally said "I find it hard to imagine both of Hawk's scum partners would have bussed him" ...as you have inferred as well. I go on to suggest doubt in that belief based on who was off Hawk's wagon...which could infer that I am off on my reads of those players. But you are twisting my words to fit your............"agenda."
And these are the crap points you find excellent momo. Awesome.
there is a reason to say aubrey is confirmed town -- not "pretty much" confirmed town, STRICTLY town
and its fuckin absurd that fitz hasnt gestured at that yet -- it shows beyond a shadow of a doubt he is NOT READING THE GAME -- and particularly (!!!!) not reading the parts which town wants to read because it CONFIRMS SLOTS
why would town!fitz express ANY DOUBT AT ALL (e.g. "pretty much") about aubreys alignment given that flip?
why would town!fitz want a case from ooo on why aubrey was possibly non-town given that he
/scumreads ooo/
and
/aubrey flipped green/
?
why would town!fitz have NOT SEEN the flip?
why would town!fitz who HAD seen the flip
not have pointed at it
as "UHHHH i dont know why youre questioning me here are you sure youre town" -- especially given
/he already scumreads ooo/
?
ill spare you all the trouble: this requires a major suspension of disbelief to buy into
we have to assume that fitz hasnt paid any attention to the game except when people poke at his slot
we have to assume he treats aubrey mostly as conftown on D2 WITHOUT HAVING SEEN THE FLIP
we have to assume that fitz still has at least the tiniest bit of doubt of the /mod's information/ in a /non-bastard game/
and we have to assume he doesnt want to push his scumread on what outwardly appears to be a clear violation of common sense
look at scum!fitz on the other hand
1: knows player alignments, doesnt need to "really" read, just to bullshit well enough to avoid real suspicion -- so why check the flip? he already knows who died and their alignment
2: the above means that he could quite possibly have seen ooo's post and wondered if the mod actually posted a full flip for aubrey, and played it off like this wasnt potentially the case
3: scum!fitz has a vested interest in causing confusion, and ooo making a case for non-town!aubrey will let him point at ooo as obvscum despite him being the one to cause this situation
4: scum!fitz is happy with any mislynch, so pushing hard on ooo isnt necessarily good for his wincon -- what if a second mislynch comes down the pipe?
Alright, here we go BlackVoid. I am going to hope you read this.
First order of business; Why
havingfitz
is mafia:
(1) There are at least two occasions where he (conciously or unconciously) presents a mindset he is working under and then works against it:
First one is the wallpost thingy. I am trying to explain this once more. Here is what fitz did:
- complained about my wallpost because it was "boring"
- posted a wallpost himself, one that ends up in "i will post my reads later"
I'll put a disclaimer here; No post in itself is scummy. But when a person basically says "i don't think doing X is good town play", if they are town they then don't do X, right? It is very simple logic because everyone as town tries to do things that are HELPFUL to the town (unless they are tilted, or trolling for some reason - neither of fitz is). If we go to his mindset here we can conclude he thinks boring wallposts are not helpful to the town (which is certainly correct). The problem is that his own wallpost is "boring". It doesn't end up to any conclusions at all. Noone asked him to sum up what has happened in the game so far (which is btw something scum like to do - sum up what other people have done and post some useless questions (more on that later) to look like they are contributing, or helping). As i said before, that is a
literal definition of boring in mafia terms.
Go read the post and ask yourself, "what is he trying to do here"? There is no direction, no reads, no nothing. Again, "boring". So what we get here:
-> says he won't read posts that are "boring" (this must mean unhelpful, because nothing else makes sense in the context)
-> makes a post that is the most "boring" thing anyone can do in mafia
I really don't know how to put this into words more clearly. He does something he himself has claimed is unhelpful to town. Townies don't try to do things that are unhelpful to town. So that's where i was coming from when i said he does something he doesn't consider pro-town. I understand he cannot understand this - or the case to begin with himself since if he could, he wouldn't have done it in the first place. But this is something that 99% of the time makes people mafia.
The second instance is the "Aubrey was confirmed town after Hawk flip". To a player who has said (or "said" - i will explain this in a bit):
- "it's totally possible, even likely, that there is 2 mafia in Hawk wagon"
- "i scumread Aubrey on D1 enoguh to vote for him"
..Aubrey cannot be confirmed town, EVER, after Hawk flip (during the night). I am going to explain the first comment here (the second one should be clear and there is no arguing about it). Think about fitz' D2. The only lynches he is even considering here are me and Hapahauli. We were both on Aubrey wagon. That literally means he MUST THINK it's certainly possible or even likely there were 2 mafia on his wagon. No other option is even possible. This point is strengthened by the fact that when i claimed we should lynch me instead of Hapa, he was straight on board with it. Now he is trying to say something different but that's just nonsense. The fact is - if i was mafia Aubrey could very well be my scumbuddy because i hard defended him when he was wagoned. There is no reason (for him) to assume Aubrey is town because he was a counterwagon to Hawk because you, BV, pushed the lynch from Aubrey into Hawk very quickly. Why on earth havingfitz, who considered Aubrey scum, should assume you CANNOT POSSIBLY go from scumwagon -> scumwagon???? Why not? With the way Hawk was a wagon to begin with it should NEVER exclude Aubrey from being mafia to fitz if he thinks there can be 2 mafia in Hawk wagon. That also always makes him mafia. He is working against his own mindset, or like... presenting a narrative that only applies when it fits to his "view" of the game. He is making the same evidence fit differently into different people basically. I am goint to simplify this to you a bit:
- people wanna kill hapa; "everyone" is okay with it
- people wanna kill Aubrey; "everyone" is okay with it
- people wanna kill Hawk; "everyone" is okay with it
Now if you were to think "scum hard bussed (as i have pointed out fitz thinks)", what does differentiate Aubrey from let's say Hapa? It doesn't make any sense considering how the wagons happened and that's another reason why fitz is mafia.
(2) His scumread on me:
So far we have heard three reasons from fitz to scumread me. Those reasons are:
- I have not presented a case on him while calling him mafia
- I have not answered his questions
- I am being a dick to other people
The third reason never makes anyone mafia. It is true i am very annoying to deal with because when i think someone is being stupid i call it stupid (usually in a very annoying or sarcastic way). I am sorry i can't help myself. But being a dick never makes anyone mafia. That's a fact. If you wanna policy lynch someone for being a dick that's another thing but he is listing it as a reason for me being mafia, and that's never true.
The first reason is just simply untrue. I have presented the same case numerous of times and still, on D2 he calls me out for the same thing. Here is an example: "BlackVoid, you are mafia because your nick starts with letter B". Yes, that's a case. Regardless of how trash tier the case is it's a case. (At this point i should probably say i worded my case in the first place in the way i did because i wanted to get a better read on Rels too - well if you've read my posts today at at the very end of the phase you probably can figure out why). What i believe is that fitz just keeps on and on telling "make a case if you call me scum" because other people cannot see how the case is legit. And here i am "un-concising" that very fucking simple and concise case.... I cannot believe, if he was town, that he wouldn't either debunk the case, or go read my filter and ask me more about the case (or my suspicions on him). He just simply "counters" the whole thing with "you have not presented a case" which is simply untrue, and town players do not operate like that, ESPECIALLY when they think the person who made the case is mafia!!!!
The questions thing..... I might aswell quote my earlier post on this:
outoforder....is Ooo an acceptable reference to you?
In post 39, outoforder wrote:No it is not an alt. I know hapahauli and Rels from another forum.
outoforder....is Ooo an acceptable reference to you?
Yes.
-----------
Is your RVS meta on hanapulali from this site or another one?
See the above answer. Now if you went to look at my post count on mafiascum and then look at the post where i gave my answer to the last question you would very clearly see that i have played zero games here. Then you put 1+1 together and your question is answered (before you even asked it...).
-----------
Are the 3 of you good at reading each other? Is there reason to assume any different dynamics between TLM and MS will affect your ability to read each other?
In post 389, outoforder wrote:Hapahauli is basically playing below his level. He is not being as smart as he is supposed to be and his scumgame is wel.... quite bad.
In post 118, outoforder wrote:
[...]Now i didn't expect Rels to 100% pick this up, but IF he does pick this up, he is most likely going to be town in this game since
his scumgame (while being quite good)
, lacks "going into depths of posts", and it's impossible to emulate a townie trait like that as mafia since you are playing from a completely different mindset. [...]
In post 967, BlackVoid wrote:@Outoforder, while you catch up, weigh in on Rels for me as well.
I cant tell if Rels is mafia on D1. My townread on him is genuine but i understand he could be scum. He thinks so alike i do i always end up on a townread on him on d1 (unless he does something completely retarded). I mean, my play is based on logic and if the logic ppl are using is making sense in any way or not. Rels probably knows my logic, so if he is scum he will also know what to tell me. I tried being super sneaky on him at the start of the game since he HAS made blunders on that before. But yeah, i prolly end up thinking he is town in 80% of the time regardless of his alignment because i am a sucker for logic.
This should be enough to tell fitz that yes, i think i am good at reading hapa and no, i don't think i am good at reading Rels at least on D1. Furthermore Rels said me and him have fooled each other early on in the game. So i consider this question answered from my part.
-----------
On that note...what do you mean when you say I am going to be a pain in the ass because I am not going to get anything you are saying?
In post 118, outoforder wrote:
[...]
So what i do conclude, regarding MooginSoosy (and to havingfitz too), is that if they are town they are probably going to be a pain in the ass to convince of anything i think is true because they will not be getting what i am saying. Or they are mafia, who just like to make people possibly annoyed so they can call them out for that later on. [...]
I can't possibly see how i can say this more clearly. Ironically this is probably the post the question is based on....
-----------
142 - @OoO...what does X being personality driven have to do with X being alignment indicative?
Nothing, i never said such thing. He is probably referring to this:
Because the point of RVS in the end is to start the game and do something to get out reads. So when people, after that X point (see more about this after the next quote) continue the game "without the X being there" it becomes, at least in my opinion, alignment - or at least personality - indicative.
Alignment idigative (for people i know) - Personality indicative (for people i don't know).
I never claimed one has to do something with the other.
-----------
So why did Moosin and I get your discredit?
Yeah, one would think why. Two questions based on the same thing (post) that already answered both of the questions...
-----------
143 - OoO...what did you establish from Aubrey's answer to your proofreading question?
I am getting a bit tired of this... If i (or anyone) don't follow up on a question it probably means they think the person gave a townie (or at least not scummy) response. This is like asking "why do you question your scumreads?".... Does anyone here think people should post literally every little thing that goes in their mind? If the question had been "i can see your question to Aubrey here. I don't understand why you made the question since it looks pointless to me. What did you expect him - as mafia - to answer? Because it also seems like the answer didn't provoke a scummy reaction from him." that would have been a good question, because it can actually achieve something.
-----------
169 - @OoO...At this point in the game why are you town reading Creature? Because at this point in the game he has made ~20 shit posts.
In post 372, outoforder wrote:
My read on Creature is based on that he doesn't really care about how people see him, and what people think of him. It looks like he's got the mindset of "fuck you i don't have to tell you anything i don't want to, here is just what i think. I will give you my reasoning when i please". I know a player who works the same way and still, when you read the posts you get a gist of where they are coming from. If you don't, they are probably mafia - which isn't the case here imo.
-----------
OoO...it looks like you have meta'd a few players to develop your reads on them. Have you on me?
No, i don't need to. Scummy stuff is scummy. I would have posted i have if i had, obviously.
-----------
340 - @OoO...why are you scum reading me? And if I am the scummiest player in the game to you...why aren't you voting me?
In post 118, outoforder wrote:Alrighty.
[...]
I also have a town lean on Aubrey, for his psot #117 and the comment + vote on Havingfitz, since i share the same thought about his play. [...]
Basically everyone else is a complete non-entity. Except for Havingfitz who i have a slight scumlean on for reasons Aubrey outlined, and Hapahauli who i honestly think is mafia.
[...]
In post 79, outoforder wrote:
[...]
I don't care. I vote when i actually am fairly certain someone is scum. If people wanna paint it as hesitant scum then they do. ^^
[...]
At this point you are a scumlean. When i unvoted hapahauli you don't magically become super obvious mafia just because i think noone else is scummier than you. If you had (again) read my posts you would know when i do vote and when i don't.
-----------
380 - OoO...you tell Hawk that when you think someone is mafia you tell it and lay out your reasoning...where is your reasoning for having me as the scummiest player in the game?
See above *sigh*
-----------
Also...OoO....post 869 is terrible. What part of your "filter read" comments on me are actually alignment indicative?
In post 869, outoforder wrote:Btw i still think havingfitz is scum. I went to reread his filter and what he basically did in his wall of text was this:\
- I don't like wall of texts -> writes a wall of text -> the conclusion he ends up in is "now let me continue and post my reads later".......
VOTE: havingfitz
It says that in the post you asked about.... Disagreeing with my read or calling it bullshit is one thing, but it's a whole other thing to ASK the dude basically "this thing you find scummy for me, do you think it's alignment indicative". I dont even... :p
-----------
can you remind me (or actually state for the first time) why it is you scum read me?
In post 962, outoforder wrote:Deflecting a case on him based on nothing that was on the case != "here is why you are wrong". It is "i am discrediting you gor other atuff because i cant prove you are wrong".
What case? Remind me of your "case."
I quoted this whole post so everyone can see what i have said BEFORE he posted this.
Again, see above.
-----------
When people ask questions, they ask them to get a better read on someone. Now when you read the questions, think about how do these questions help havingfitz get a better read on me (or anyone)? I can somehow understand "are you three good/bad at reading each other", but everything else is just something to throw in trash, it cannot possibly ever achieve anything. Furthermore (and remember that i am his scumread here) he still cannot deduce these answers from my filter (they are actually very concise answers - one of two of them "not", but easily deduceable). So basically:
- he asked questions that do not actually mean anything to him
- he isn't reading his scumread's posts (like fucking ever lol)
Both of those things make him mafia. Asking useless questions, well you got the gist. And why the hell would you not read your scumread's post? You wanna FIND EVIDENCE to tell people why your scumread is scum. Not reading his posts (which can clearly be seen here) is not really going to help gathering evidence. So those two are the only conclusions i can come to, and as i said, it makes him mafia.
We haven't really heard his follow up on the case on me, which brings me to...
(3) Focusing on things that should not ever matter to him over other things:
Basically this is from D2. Go read his fitz' posts on D2 and tell me what he is trying to do? Nothing, he has literally advanced nowhere from where he was at the start of the phase. It's not even tunneling. It is just.. idk.. stalling everything? This post is a really really good example of it (in addition to some of his D1 posts - like THE WALL):
In post 1710, outoforder wrote:If you want to lynch Hapa the only player he really makes sense as mafia is me, so i propose that you lynch me instead of him.
Works for me! I'm good with either of your lynches.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
OK BV...sorry for the delayed response. Three other games at more critical junctures and RL took priority.
I believe you asked me to elaborate on my Rels town read and my suspicions of OoO and hapa.
WRT Rels...my early catch up gave mention to an early townread on Rels (due to likeminded posting) and coincidentally I give my townread process to Rels in Post 523. This post also has my early thoughts towards hapa (and a few others). It's what I usually draw my early town reads from. Beyond D1 as the game progresses...my townreads are effected by other actions (ex. claims, flips, more posts to assess).
As for today...I have seen nothing to sway me from my tr on Rels. Plus he was willing to vote scum!Hawk. Likewise on hapa....he was also willing to vote scum!Hawk which is probably the main reason I have pause towards him being scum. While I was willing to give him a pass on the meta case brought up against him by Rels and OoO I still do not like his awkward agreement with Aubrey's early scum read on me. It felt like he was taking lazy advantage of weak suspicions thrown my way. I don't recall why Aubrey spent much of day on hapa but it makes my suspicions feel more valid with Aubrey suspecting hapa. I also do not like the fact hapa has abandoned this game but I don't think that is necessarily AI so I won't hold that against him. But I do not like it. I just hate voting dead slots. I will....but I don't like to. Otherwise the only voting that hapa did D1 that I have issue with were his stance on KidAdm and his time on my wagon. He hasn't posted D2 so nothing new to judge him on.
I find it hard to imagine both Hawk's scum partners would have bussed him but the only players not on the Hawk lynch were me, Kop, Doom and KidAdm. I'm town. I have tr Doom (though momo is trying his best to change that) and KidAdm the entire game. Kop is iffy but he is heading towards replacement probably. Plus...as has been mentioned...Hawk probably doesn't try to shift a wagon onto a scum buddy just to save his own neck.
In regards to the end of D1...Hawk had three votes and momentum when he switched from Aubrey to Kop. I don't know if he really thought a Kop wagon had a chance (in which case voting a buddy would produce some nice Kop town cred) or if at that point in the game he was more interested in getting a no lynch. Which almost happened. I'm rambling. I think Kop is probably town but not a lock by any means.
I haven't had a chance to present my OoO suspicions due to lack of time but I started on this early this morning and I want to post what I have while I have the chance. I will present my OoO stuff NLT tomorrow.
Now assume you're fitz and you're town. You directly claim you are thinking Hapahauli and me are mafia (which he did before). Here:
Town - Blackvoid, Rels....probably Kop. Probably momo (based on Doom...not momo).
Fence - Creature, Cassie, KidAdm
Suspect pool - hapa, OoO, (tbd off the fence?)
Why don't you try to make a case and push your scum suspect instead of talking about some other people? I know he is saying he is "on the fence" with some other people but the post literally starts with "i am okay with lynching EITHER you or hapa" so on the fence "argument" sounds really fucking fishy. If you are town and not actually sure, well first of all you say that, second you either try to pressure (me and/or hapa) or make a case on either of us. You never ever - as town - jsut say "i am okay whichever of you two flips" if you ACTUALLY are on the fence with other people (because that in itself suggests you think you can be wrong on one of me and hapa). It is a clear contradiction and fail in logic and it also makes him mafia.
There you go, that's so fucking clear i can ever be.
Now lynch the scummer please.
My other reads in the next post but this took 2 hours so i am not sure if i wanna do that today anymore. At least i need a couple of beer.
Is there anybody in there?
Just nod if you can hear me.
Is there anyone home?
Come on now
I hear you're feeling down.
Well I can ease your pain
Get you on your feet again.
Relax.
I'll need some information first.
Just the basic facts.
In post 1732, outoforder wrote:I just offered myself being lynched over a townie so Rels can what??? "get towncredit"? (when me - Rels interaction caused the whole thing in the first place). I am sorry, smart mafia teams do not do that. Especially when it would leave 1 mafia alive which has a chance of instantly losing the game if you shoot the wrong person.. They just simply agree to lynch the townie.
I cannot disagree with any of this. Bussing in this format is basically good as suicide to lose the game. Not even bussing on day one.
I don't think OoO is scum in this scenario as I suspect Rels more.
In post 1732, outoforder wrote:I just offered myself being lynched over a townie so Rels can what??? "get towncredit"? (when me - Rels interaction caused the whole thing in the first place). I am sorry, smart mafia teams do not do that. Especially when it would leave 1 mafia alive which has a chance of instantly losing the game if you shoot the wrong person.. They just simply agree to lynch the townie.
I cannot disagree with any of this. Bussing in this format is basically good as suicide to lose the game. Not even bussing on day one.
I don't think OoO is scum in this scenario as I suspect Rels more.
it was less "i seriously emphatically believe you and rels are the scumteam" and more "wifom is involved and nothing said 'serious push' to me between your two slots, so it is still a possibility"
as ive said multiple times: distancing is not bussing. it can become bussing, but it isnt
in case most people dont get it: distancing is more like a low-key scumread, acting suspicious of your partner for most of the game but always finding a better lynch, etc. if you do push its boneless and yo udont keep pushing after the initial vote. you intentionally let it fall flat
its never enough to scumhunt with by itself (because town does that sort of thing with low-confidence scumreads for example), but it's indicative IF you already have reason to scumread both people imo
which i think is an important set of heuristics to learn -- how to choose the best lynch out of a handful of scumreads, how to doublecheck your reads to see if they can be scum together, etc.
In post 887, Kop wrote:I echo the thoughts of Cassielle regarding Rels.
It would be beneficial if we got a flip on either Hapa or rels, but I am feeling rels more than Hapa at the minute. His whole push on Hapa, and that question that I questioned and a few others he just wouldn't reveal what he intended, it just felt that he was setting Hapa up to suspect then back off when Hapa came into the game properly. I get a strong sense of feeling that it's either bussing, or classic distancing if one was to flip later in the game. It looks worse with Rels backing out of it, which also points to that if Hapa flips town, Rels gains town credit because he can actually safely say well I felt that he was town because of his responses and there isn't any backlash towards Rel because of it.
Just it doesn't feel right anymore, my slight town read that I got has gone.
With scum having day talk, it could have easily been orchestrated and co-ordinated without having to work hard at it, if Hapa flips scum, it would point me heavily towards Rel again.
Taking Rel out would answer a lot towards my thoughts towards Hapa, it could make me think twice in regards to him.
Seriously cassie? My "DOUBT AT ALL" about Aubrey's flip is based on the fact I am discussing why Aubrey was NK'd. Stating Aubrey was basically confirmed town and therefore made perfect sense as the NK. Aubrey's actual flip...which of course I was aware of...has nothing to do with the discussion of events that occurred PRE-FLIP.
Do you understand?
Unbelievable....smdh....
momo...what are people listening to you about? You haven't said shit. Other than concurred with a misleading post by OoO you have done nothing. Go sit in the corner and color.
WRT OoO...OMG...he is IN MY MIND! Lol. (not.)
OoO point 1
1.1) You're new here...I think this might be your first game on the site. That early comment to you was an an FYI. Forgive me from making an observation about your wall posting. I was letting you know that wallposts are not popular and the potential exists for people to glaze over them. The fact that I make the ocassional wallpost myself is not AI. Due to the nature of my availability I find myself making frequent cath up posts in games which results in wall post. I realize they aren't popular. People have more than once bitched about them. I don't give a fcuk...I do it anyway. As both alignments. You wanna wallpost...you go for it. The fact my FYI to you is being twisted into a lie that it is somehow AI of you to post one followed by me posting one (also AI apparently) is a misrep and assinine.
I did not say I won't read posts that are "boring"...you are misrepping me again. After you indicated you were scumreading me because I wallposted after telling you how they were typically received I was basically telling you I didn't really give a crap if you wallposted and that if any of your posts were too painful to read I just wouldn't. It was my giving you the I don't fcuking care if you wall post retort to your pissy defensiveness. You mention "boring" several times....something I do not say in any of my posts directed at you as you falsely claim.
Also...you try to make the insinuation that I will not read "boring" posts out like it is a bad thing when
1.2) As for Aubrey...how is saying someone is most likely town taking D1 events into consideration scummy? First off...you use multiple quotes that do not belong to me. If you are going to "quote" me use my actual words.
I did NOT say "Aubrey was confirmed town after Hawk flip"
What I DID say was "Aubrey was
pretty much
confirmed town" Pretty much leaves a modicum of doubt. I followed that up in my next post calling Aubrey "basically confirmed town". Still a shred of doubt. (
Note to cassie
...none of this is taking Aubrey's actual flip into account).
I did NOT say "it's totally possible, EVEN LIKELY, that there is two mafia in Hawk wagon"
What I DID say was "I find it hard to imagine both Hawk's scum partners would have bussed him BUT...." There is that modicum of doubt again.
The doubt is there because I'm not 100% of anyone's alignment but mine...Hawk's...
and yes cassie
...even Aubrey now that he has flipped.
As for me saying I had suspicions towards Aubrey D1...what is your point? I don't even know how to respond. You are not making sense...you're just typing shit.
FYI...if Aubrey was still alive today I would not be completely discounting the possibility he was scum. I would find it highly unlikely over most everyone else in the game (aside from me and probably BV)...but the chance would have still existed.
In other words...your point 1.2 is shit.
OoO Point 2
2) This is a misrep...I do not believe I have laid out why I suspect you. And if I inferred reasons somewhere they certainly did not include suspecting you because you're a dick. That's NAI. You say I list that as a reason for you being mafia....
show me where I say that. You are LYING once again.
OoO Point 3
I have been swimming upstream D2. Combined with less time than I would like and responding to questions or suspicions pointed towards me. If you think my "Focus" is off that's a combination of your opinion (which is tainted) and how my posting has been constrained today.
tl:dr;
What's "fcuking clear" is you (OoO) like to lie to suit your objective.
ok heres the issue with talking about pre-flip confirmation???
theres no such beast in this setup
scum can still (STILL) bus when they feel the situation is non-survivable for their fellow scum. it sucks for them, but it means the longer the game goes on the more scumread they get if they dont do it -- eventually theyre trading a POSSIBLE loss by PGO activation for a CERTAIN loss by PoE. a balancing act must be played by them
ftr @ooo, that does mean that both scum can be on the scum wagon, look for the last minute sudden-changes-of-heart first thing if you want to find that imo
and that means that the whole talk about pre-flip aubrey's alignment is bunk and poo because your main contention is--
wait
i just looked and uh
YOU DONT HAVE A MAIN FUCKING CONTENTION
your pre-flip townconfirmation of aubrey is literally an empty assertion, you say it is so but you have offered nothing at all to back it up you just like wave at wagon changes and "mumble mumble THEREFORE CONFTOWN"
you dont even point out what changes? why they indicate town!aubrey pre-flip? anything?
put your thoughts down in excessive detail or cede the field imo, because youve just been talking in circles
that and producing content-free counterarguments while hiding the fact that theyre empty and weightless behind wallposts of meaningless filler, anyway
But this is something that 99% of the time makes people mafia.
