Mini Normal 1888 - TwoFace Mafia - Game Over


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Post Post #150 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:19 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

The three votes on Fire:

In post 24, Pants98 wrote:VOTE: Fire
This looks like a naked RVS vote.

I.e I do not expect Pants98 to be supporting their vote with a reason of substance or deep/genuine suspicion.

In post 26, Transcend wrote:VOTE: Fire
Likewise here.
Why would you suspect this is a sheep vote on substance?


Third vote:
In post 42, FrankJaeger wrote:VOTE: fire

(Insert reasoning here)
This looks like another classic RVS vote. I would not flag FrankJaeger's naked vote as opportunistic. Wagons and reactions are information.

In post 147, DogWatch wrote:I don't really understand Rvs then I guess, never heard of it until I started looking at games on this site.
How long have you been playing mafia?
Don't they have random votes / random questions where you're from?
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Post Post #151 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:24 am

Post by Eddie Cane »

In post 150, Keyser Söze wrote:
The three votes on Fire:

In post 24, Pants98 wrote:VOTE: Fire
This looks like a naked RVS vote.

I.e I do not expect Pants98 to be supporting their vote with a reason of substance or deep/genuine suspicion.

In post 26, Transcend wrote:VOTE: Fire
Likewise here.
Why would you suspect this is a sheep vote on substance?


Third vote:
In post 42, FrankJaeger wrote:VOTE: fire

(Insert reasoning here)
This looks like another classic RVS vote. I would not flag FrankJaeger's naked vote as opportunistic. Wagons and reactions are information.

In post 147, DogWatch wrote:I don't really understand Rvs then I guess, never heard of it until I started looking at games on this site.
How long have you been playing mafia?
Don't they have random votes / random questions where you're from?
Most smaller mafia sites don't like rvs. They don't understand the benefit. RQS is much more common, as to them it starts discussion, even if it's NAI discussion it has a purpose I guess.
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Post Post #152 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:49 am

Post by DogWatch »

I played on a small site back in 2007-2008. Haven't played since. RVS wasn't a thing. Random questions were usually how we started, but I read some games on this site and it looks like RQS is an instant scum read which blows my mind. I don't really know how to play on this site yet. I'm used to games based around night decisions/analysis, items, numerous power roles, crazy gimmicks, etc. This site just looks like endless day phase squabbling to me.

If there's nothing weird about those three fire votes in the context of this site , I'm cool with that. I just didn't interpret it that way at the time.

I have an eight hour drive ahead of me, so I'll be back on later tonight/early tomorrow.
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Post Post #153 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:49 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

In post 105, Eddie Cane wrote:since when is ignoring a RHETORIC question scum indicative? this is blatantly misrepping a situation. also in reply to 71: it isn't scum afraid of getting lynched, i5s nai newb afraid of getting lynched. I'm really annoyed how you're trying to push a lynch on a newbie for awful reasonig this early.
Yes, I didn't like Shadow_step saying DogWatch ignoring his 'rhetorical' question was scummy - but I don't think that makes Shadow_step scum. I feel like Shadow_step is a player who holds what HE thinks is town-indicative/scum-indicative as Gospel.

However, I think that the DogWatch 'mafiascum-newb' suggestions are being easily snapped up as scum-play here.
If DogWatch is an experienced mafia player, trying to get the three players to explain their RVS vote is non-sensical/ridiculous futile play. What is scum-DogWatch trying to achieve here?
Newb-scum DogWatch is the other option, but it sounds like DogWatch has experience where he/she has come from:
<< thus, DogWatch is not a true newb to the game. Just a newb to mafiascum site meta

...or the fact their scum-hunting game is rusty:




In post 105, Eddie Cane wrote:you're right, you're not an ic,
but that doesn't mean you should be an asshole
. he's new, I called him out a bit for the rvs vote questioning too. that's not scum indicative at all. but actually, viewing your iso, you've been tunnelling him from your first post.
Yum, I'm loving the venom here.
Let the hate flow through you!
(half town point earned).

FYI: early tunnels are good. We need to see players under pressure. If Shadow_step was tunneling players later in the game I'd be suspicious (ignoring other players). Right now, I think DogWatch has unknowingly been making himself an easy target by his mafiascum-newb behaviour.
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Post Post #154 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:52 am

Post by Transcend »

VOTE: keyser
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Post Post #155 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:54 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

In post 67, DogWatch wrote:All I wanted was a reason behind them. If there was a compelling reason there that i had missed, id be happy to join the wagon.
OK, this could explain your paranoia/point of intrigue.
In post 152, DogWatch wrote:If there's nothing weird about those three fire votes in the context of this site , I'm cool with that. I just didn't interpret it that way at the time.
In your home site...
Are scum more likely to jump on a wagon of zero substance / zero chance of a lynch...?

Or were scum more likely to jump on a wagon with genuine momentum and more meat?
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Post Post #156 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:03 am

Post by Barleycorn »

In post 154, Transcend wrote:VOTE: keyser
this one i'm curious about. why?
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Post Post #157 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:03 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

In post 120, aronagrundy wrote:VOTE: eddie cane

His case on shadow seems opportunistic. And he basically just repeats what others have said.
Bad vote.
I consolidate the suspicions of other players to strengthen my own stance on a player.
Eddie Cane's anger felt genuine.
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Post Post #158 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:05 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

In post 122, aronagrundy wrote:the vc was 100% a typo lol
No it wasn't, my vote is worth 6 :giggle:
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Post Post #159 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:07 am

Post by Barleycorn »

In post 157, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 120, aronagrundy wrote:VOTE: eddie cane

His case on shadow seems opportunistic. And he basically just repeats what others have said.
Bad vote.
I consolidate the suspicions of other players to strengthen my own stance on a player.
Eddie Cane's anger felt genuine.
genuine anger at shadow's tone = town mindset? could it not have been genuine, but still bolstered scum!eddie's vote?

even subtracting the fact that eddie is voting shadow because shadow did something eddie sees as anti-town, rather than eddie actually thinking shadow is scum.
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Post Post #160 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:09 am

Post by Barleycorn »

In post 159, Barleycorn wrote: even subtracting the fact that eddie is voting shadow because shadow did something eddie sees as anti-town, rather than eddie actually thinking shadow is scum.
hm, i checked to make sure this was true and realized i misinterpreted this.

i don't hate eddie's shadow vote.
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Post Post #161 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:12 am

Post by Transcend »

Gut
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Post Post #162 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:12 am

Post by Barleycorn »

In post 135, mozamis wrote:
In post 134, Eddie Cane wrote:you should probably vote me over fire though as I did take his argument.
this looks really self conscious and trying-too-hard. I'm happy with my Dog vote, but you're next on the Moz list.
would you still think this is ai if it were the case that eddie has done something similar before?
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Post Post #163 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:15 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

In post 129, Transcend wrote:Shadow i think we're town together this time! You're always scum and I'm always town jajaj.
Show me town-Shadow from your perspective (versus your scum-meta with him).
In post 130, Transcend wrote:Fos Eddie as well.
Please also show me why you FOS Eddie.

In post 130, Transcend wrote:Shadow is a shit counterwagon to Fire.
Why "counterwagon"?
Why can't they be two separate natural wagons?
Are your town and scum reads
that strong
to be drawing out association-based counter wagons?
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Post Post #164 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:17 am

Post by Eddie Cane »

you haven't played with transcend much have you
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Post Post #165 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:18 am

Post by Barleycorn »

i think dog is town.

UNVOTE: arona

VOTE: mozamis
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Post Post #166 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:18 am

Post by Barleycorn »

sorry, ^ those ideas look connected but they only are somewhat.
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Post Post #167 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:29 am

Post by Transcend »

Too many alts in this game
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Post Post #168 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:29 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

In post 144, NorskaBlue wrote:-Do you think his aggressiveness is a townread, or are you just approving of it in general? If it is a townread, do you think scum wouldn't be aggressive?
I generally associate players who aren't afraid to be aggressive/upset people are town. Scum prefer to be on the right side of players and not provoke sleeping bears/day and night attention. However, I do agree that scum can be aggressive if there is towncred to be won in the long-term.
In post 144, NorskaBlue wrote:Again, is over-worded explanations and analysis' scumtells, or do you just like how Moz is being straightforward?
This only applies to early D1/RVS play but YES. I would be suspicious of someone presenting a two page thesis on why a player is scum that early. I.e scum usually want to explain their scum-read in detail early on (an intricate offense and vote)... town are more likely to be less self-conscious about caring about why/where they lay a vote (a single punch and vote).

However, as the play advances... I would expect townies to be able to explain and support their reads/votes in detail. I then try to see if
I can see, what they see
.
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Post Post #169 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:32 am

Post by Transcend »

In post 163, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 129, Transcend wrote:Shadow i think we're town together this time! You're always scum and I'm always town jajaj.
Show me town-Shadow from your perspective (versus your scum-meta with him).
In post 130, Transcend wrote:Fos Eddie as well.
Please also show me why you FOS Eddie.

In post 130, Transcend wrote:Shadow is a shit counterwagon to Fire.
Why "counterwagon"?
Why can't they be two separate natural wagons?
Are your town and scum reads
that strong
to be drawing out association-based counter wagons?
1. Have not seen town shadow
2. No
3. Lol
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Post Post #170 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:40 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

In post 169, Transcend wrote:1. Have not seen town shadow
2. No
3. Lol
1. Interesting. Share with me what is
scum-Shadow
. I want to see why you have ruled out scum-Shadow.
2. I didn't like the timing of when you chose to post your FOS (right after aronagrundy's vote). I'd like to see why YOU personally FOS him. Is it a sheep read?
3. I personally leave counter-wagon analysis after a flip. I.e D2. It feels like your positions on players are already set in stone.
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Post Post #171 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:40 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

In post 139, gerryoat wrote:VOTE: Transcend

he slipped
Where are you gerry? :shifty:
Is this a reaction test or a failed attempt at scum-distancing? :twisted:
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Post Post #172 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:43 am

Post by Transcend »

1. He's not scummy
2. K
3. K

171 is a scum claim btw
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Post Post #173 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:46 am

Post by Barleycorn »

i like transcend and want to sheep him. i don't like reading keyser's posts and get little from them when i do. i also don't like that keyser didn't interact with my

UNVOTE: moz

VOTE: keyser
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Post Post #174 (ISO) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:48 am

Post by Barleycorn »

keyser's interaction with dog was weird. everyone reading really far into dog's reaction to the fire wagon is weird.
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