Thespival Mafia (Denouement)

[Captain Bandwagon]

/confirm

[Captain Bandwagon]

This looks like it's going to be an awesome game.

[Captain Bandwagon]

All in favor of a D1 cow bandwagon, say aye.

[Captain Bandwagon]

VOTE: QUICKBEN

For not being quick enough.

[Captain Bandwagon]

Oh, wait.

UNVOTE

VOTE: MITH

Because I can.

[Captain Bandwagon]

CB: Whose alt are you?

[Captain Bandwagon]

I wish I was the jester. I would have made a perfect jester.

[Captain Bandwagon]

mith, can you elaborate on why it's better for the jester to claim now? I don't quite get why the jester would choose to reveal himself.

[Captain Bandwagon]

Alright, first things first. The Jester should come out so we don't lynch him or her today. That's in everyone's best interests, right? Except the Mafia's. Jester, if you get lynched today, you lose. So you should come out now so that doesn't happen.

Hopefully the Mafia won't pretend to be the Jester, that would totally screw up this plan.

If the jester gets lynched today, he loses. If he gets lynched after D1, he wins. That means town and scum compete for second place, right? In which case, shouldn't we try and lynch him D1?

How does the mafia benefit from a jester lynch D1? How does scum pretending to be jester screw up "the plan", and more importantly, what does "the plan" aim to accomplish? What is the obvious "strategery"? I don't see it.

[Captain Bandwagon]

Thanks for clarifying, Pooky. That helped a lot.

[Captain Bandwagon]

Lynch me so I get out of this hell hole.

Be careful of what you wish for.

UNVOTE

VOTE: GREASY SPOT

[Captain Bandwagon]

The order of winning does not matter - what matters is that factions avoid

losing

, which the Jester does if they are nightkilled.

Actually according to the rules, if the Jester is lynched, we keep playing for second place. It's not really equal.

Wait, this is getting confusing. Is it second place or second to win?

MOD, can you clarify?

[Captain Bandwagon]

I don't know. My gut tells me that if tyhess is scum, then two opposing scum groups is a possibility. I mean, how overpowered would tyhess be if he could recruit townies and take their votes away? Of course, we can't discount the fact that there may be additional game mechanics that we don't know about, as stated in the CotC Recruiter card.

I agree with petro, but only IF tyhess doesn't have any more important potential game-altering mechanics hidden away. It's up to him to use his best judgment on the situation. If tyhess is pro-town, no need to let us know about these mechanics unless it is absolutely necessary. No point in giving the scum any advantages that we could have otherwise prevented.

@Players who haven't posted much: I want your opinions on GS and the idea of tyhess not recruiting anyone.

[Captain Bandwagon]

If tyhess gets too powerful, the mafia will just try to shoot him as they know that tyhess is against them.

Right, right.

And if tyhess is mafia I suppose the town would just lose because it would probably take like 2-3 days before the scum's vote outnumbered the town's, unless the town has some way to nightkill or daykill him.

FoS: Iammars

.

Upon further reflection, I think that tyhess has either got significant additional powers/mechanics and/or he's neither town nor mafia. If he's neither town nor mafia, he either has separate, unique win conditions or he simply is cult cult. Argh, that CotC is a complete mindfuck.

In the case of Iammars, I'm not quite sure if that was a brain fart or a slip of the Freudian variety. Does anyone have any meta examples of Iammars slipping up? Nonetheless,

FOS

. Props to MeMe for pointing it out.

@MeMe: For the love of humanity, please change your avatar. It's scary. I keep expecting it to suddenly look at me every time I see it.

[Captain Bandwagon]

mith - you sure do like to point the finger alot.Are you Scum?

Tell me, GS. If no one points any fingers in mafia, how will we be able to catch scum like you?

[Captain Bandwagon]

mith - you sure do like to point the finger alot.Are you Scum?

Tell me, GS. If no one points any fingers in mafia, how will we be able to catch scum like you?

Tell me CB. How does pointing a finger catch scum?

Wouldn't it be easier to jump on your wagon and ride away?

Uh, because you need to hunt for scum in order to find them? I'm not really quite sure, just a hunch, y'know? I totally know where you're coming from and I understand your confusion on the matter. We were all new players, once.

But I have to say that I like your personal attack towards me. It just

confirms my vote

on you.

By the way, if you're the jester and acting stupid in order to be lynched, you don't really win if you get lynched D1. Just letting you know.

[Captain Bandwagon]

GS might be attempting a Slayer's Gambit, but that's just pure speculation. I doubt he has the wits to pull off that one.

hasdgfas, I feel your pain. Is there any way your PR can be removed?

If yes, say AMEN.

If no, say HALLELUJAH.

Or just say yes or no if you can.

[Captain Bandwagon]

Oh Master Greaser

petroleumjelly

thank you for lubing up my

Greasy Spot

so That I may see the error of impotent logic.

After I posted this I did not attack anyone unless I was attacked or provoked, so don't say my actions led you you guys to think of me as scum.

Actually, it was your actions that led me to think of you as scum. I mean, come on. What else could it have been?

[Captain Bandwagon]

It also involves a lot of amens and hallelujahs. I don't think he wants to talk about it, either.

[Captain Bandwagon]

I don't really understand your words tyhess. Are you saying it'd be too easy for scum to manipulate whose vote you to take away if we have the town approve of you using your ability before using it?

If we treated your role more like we'd treat a vig role being controlled by the town, I'd agree, but as this is all public information, and I don't believe using your ability is (in general) beneficial, I think it's good to have the town approve of it before you do it. I don't want it to be used at all except for a couple rare exceptions, which might never occur. And I especially don't want you just using the ability at your own whim because we don't know yet whether or not we can even trust you.

AK speaks truth. I think any potential recruitment must first be agreed upon by the town. Anyone else in favor of this?

[Captain Bandwagon]

But you should bring it to us before you do anything, unless you absolutely have to. Can you agree on that?

[Captain Bandwagon]

If

you get NK'd. One thing that can happen is that you announce that you're recruiting Person A, who is not scum. However, the scum NK you to throw suspicion on Person A. There's no real way to tell, unless the person whose recruitment you announced gets investigated. I agree with you with the fact that there's a lot of WIFOM, but that can be overcome with solid play. I hold to my stance that you don't recruit anyone unless we agree on it first.

[Captain Bandwagon]

BM = Badplay Mage

Don't you see it? You bloody idiot. The jester has the best chance of winning if he claims now. Why risk getting lynched or NK'd?

Also, please answer post #238 by RW.

[Captain Bandwagon]

Battle Mage i noticed Greasy Spot is missing from your suspect list. I'm curious as to why you find him innocent?

The wagon on him was a ridiculous facade for some wierd ploy to off the Jester. There is absolutely no reason to suspect him atm, hence he is not on the list.

BM

You gotta be kidding me.

FOS: BATTLE MAGE

[Captain Bandwagon]

Battle Mage i noticed Greasy Spot is missing from your suspect list. I'm curious as to why you find him innocent?

The wagon on him was a ridiculous facade for some wierd ploy to off the Jester. There is absolutely no reason to suspect him atm, hence he is not on the list.

BM

You gotta be kidding me.

FOS: BATTLE MAGE

Whats the case on him then, Poirot?
FoS's are lame. Dont be a pussy. Make it a vote.

BM

Nice attempts to draw me into a flame war, but that's not the point of this game. Why the FOS? Because I'm already voting GS. I'm voting him for the following reasons:

Pooky's rock solid case in #62 shouldn't leave any question about the jester claiming D1. Despite that, GS continued to stir up the pot. The strategy is both pro-jester and pro-town, so only scum would be unhappy with it. PJ cleared things up even more in #92, but GS pretends not to understand to confuse things even more. It isn't until #98 that he even admits that he could be wrong. In #106, he made a very sarcastic post that pinged my scumdar like an asteroid.

And you say there's no case against him? Something's fishy here. Are you trying to dig your own grave?

[Captain Bandwagon]

Do a reread, then post player summaries/random thoughts?

[Captain Bandwagon]

MOD, can you check the IP addresses of GS and BM?

It would be really, really interesting if they turned out to be the same.

[Captain Bandwagon]

Pooky made a case?

I'm surprised you've been around this long and you still don't know a case when you see one.

One of the main characteristics (good or bad) about me is that i tend to stick to my instincts even in the face of every other player saying im wrong.

And when your instincts are wrong? You can't play this game on instincts alone. You have to base your judgments and decisions on logic.

Actually I've decided that it's dumb to do back and forth with you because we're moving closer to the deadline and we need the Jester to understand that my case is ironclad.

The only way the Jester wins is by making the Town Lose in the endgame if he has been revealed.

Basically the Jester effectively moves the town one day closer to the endgame if he claims and survives till then.

However LYNCHING the jester does EXACTLY the same thing as not lynching him. By lynching him, we are ALSO moving the game one day closer to the endgame, which is the same thing we do if we leave him alive.

EXCEPT WHEN WE LEAVE HIM ALIVE, WE HAVE A CHANCE OF LYNCHING MAFIA, WHEREAS IF WE LYNCH HIM WE HAVE NO CHANCE OF LYNCHING MAFIA.

So yea, I'd guess keeping him alive is the town's best play.

In

bold

is the heart of the argument. We don't want to waste time lynching non-scum.

*dont ask me why im even bothering arguing this in defence of the Jester. I just HATE lies stated as fact.

I wonder how you play as scum, then. Do you go out announcing to everyone "Hey, guess what? I hate lies, so I'm scum"?

BM, why don't you just give us a clear, non-ambiguous reply to mith in #276? You're emitting a plethora of scum-confusion tactics from your miserable, obnoxious self. Do you like being unpopular? Does it make you feel better to have a bad reputation on MS as being one of the most unfun players to play with?

Pooky's post #280 should leave

no doubt

for the jester to claim. At this point, an unclaimed jester is a

bad

jester.

And to think, i was trying so hard to be polite, and avoid getting into a flame war.

Lies. I know what's going on in the minds of attention-seeking players like you. You act as a detriment to the town in every game you play, regardless of your role. It's a playstyle that's hard to read, but it's also a playstyle that isn't enjoyable to participate with. Do you like having fun at the expense of other people? If yes, what does that make you? Why bother pulling a Slayer's Gambit? It's not a good way of catching scum and it only serves to confuse the town even further.

Conclusion: I know what the B in BM stands for. Bad play. Unless he's deliberately being anti-town, in which case we should lynch him as soon as possible.

@the jester: if you're worried about getting lynched D1 after your claim, there's no chance of that happening. We're not horrible players who only seek to make one person lose. I'm sure the town would rather have a higher chance of finishing second place instead of a much lower chance of winning it outright. Here's how your not claiming hurts the town:

1. It gives scum the opportunity to claim jester, which is incredibly detrimental to us.

2. It creates confusion among the town. We already start out with hardly any information as it is.

3. A late jester claim, as elaborated on by Pooky and mith, can be devastating for the town in the end-game.

If you just claim now, all those problems will go away, and we can turn our attention to catching scum instead of wasting our time on figuring out who the jester is.

[Captain Bandwagon]

EBWOP

@BM: Elaborate on #277. Explain to us how you think mith's and Pooky's views differ.

[Captain Bandwagon]

Everyone be sure to read this post.

What MeMe said. If you think something is a trap, don't point it out until everyone has a chance to fall for it! Sigh.

Anyway... I think everyone has now denied being the Jester. So I suppose it's time to move on.

This was absolutely a trap. You see, when we played the Jester setup at Thespival, there was one small difference: the Jester won when lynched Day 1. There, the strategy presented here clearly applies. The Jester should come out to avoid being nightkilled, and the Town should encourage it so that we eliminate one suspect

and also so that we avoid all the WIFOM drama involved when we know someone is trying to get themselves lynched

.

What actually happened was that we got screwed over by scum claiming Jester, and then ended up lynching the Jester straight away because we thought we were safe lynching the scummiest player.

Here, we have a day where it's safe to lynch the Jester, and I was trying to take advantage of that.

Not so much to trick the Jester so we can lynch him/her! That doesn't help the town.

But to trick the Mafia into thinking they're about to get screwed over and the only way out of it is to fakeclaim Jester. If someone had claimed Jester, there was a better than average chance of them being scum, given that the Thespivalites understood the strategy considerations and know that

best play for the Jester is to claim Day 2

, so if any of them are the Jester they (correctly) waited.

Anyway. Hopefully the Jester truly does understand the strategy involved in playing the role and will come out tomorrow. In the meantime, we have plenty to analyze here. My vote remains on GS for now, as his reaction was clearly the most scum-like, but I need to comb through the responses in detail.

Sorry. I guess i wasnt told about this trap. -.-
If i see people, especially well respected people such as yourselves making crazy logic its natural impulse to say so.
Anyway, before you revealed this, i'd have liked to see explanations from those newer players who hopped on the Jester pushing BW. Im almost positive that not everyone was aware of the trap, and highly suspicious of those who went along with it. Post 324 doesnt exactly fill me with confidence concerning MeMe either...
Oh and despite me kinda fucking up a plan, i'd still like to say:

SCREW YOU CAPTAIN BANDWAGON! (this kind of also applies to anyone who legitimately said i was talking crap)

BM

Exactly my point. I can't believe you didn't see it, hence my frustration.

[Captain Bandwagon]

1. Guess.

2. No.

[Captain Bandwagon]

My bad, I had opened up a reply window right after BM's post #330, but I didn't click submit properly. I did so when I got back, but failed to notice the new posts right away.

[Captain Bandwagon]

Rolling around in snow also helps.

Ugh, I had a lot of that two days ago at Grouse Mt. in North Van. Tried snowboarding for the first time and I still bear the bruises.

[Captain Bandwagon]

It only takes

one

extra step to get from "Wait a second, that's not a smart thing for Jester to do" to the surprising conclusion of "And wait another second - but it

is

a good thing for the town".

This. When mith and Pooky unveiled the plan, I knew something was up. My suspicions were confirmed after I asked them to elaborate, and after that I just went along with it. I mean, come on. When the owner of the site uses craplogic along with several other experienced players, something definitely has to be up.

2.)

For some reason, Post 112 by Captain Bandwagon rubbed me the wrong way (and I find it strange myself considering the plethora of votes on Greasy Spot). Sketching out my general reaction would be something like this:

->

a.)

No indication of whether Captain Bandwagon finds Greasy Spot

scummy

at this point in time as opposed to 'granting a request'
->

b.)

Clearly cannot be a 'pressure' vote for more information when it is done directly and solely from a quote of somebody asking to be voted/lynched
->

c.)

Considering Captain Bandwagon's initial reaction to the "Jester claim Day One" strategy was to argue against it, and his own claim of "I totally know where you're coming from" in [157], I find it difficult to believe he used the fact that Greasy Spot argued against it as a justification for his vote – so

if

there was a basis, it would have to be something else

I completely realize there were votes from other people who

also

did not explain their vote, but this one gave me a different vibe from the others. Later CB claims it was "his [Greasy Spot's] actions" that led CB to think GS was scum in Post 172. So I'm going to ask: what actions in particular were you basing your vote off?

{Coming back}: Looks like it's the sarcastic posts that got Captain B (mentioned in Post 249). That mollifies me somewhat, but I might as well get a fuller explanation.

I was voting him to pressure him to stop trying to derail the trap, and I didn't like the vibe of his sarcastic posts.

6.)

When did

you

realize the Jester plan was a trap? Your posts have certainly given me reason to doubt you 'knew all along'.

See above.

My thoughts are, if enough people bully someone with enough force for enough time, eventually they give in. One of the main characteristics (good or bad) about me is that i tend to stick to my instincts even in the face of every other player saying im wrong. But there comes a time when you doubt yourself, especially in a game of this nature, im amazed to find myself disagreeing with so many legends of the game.

I guess your instincts sure failed you here.

[Captain Bandwagon]

Sorry guys, am moving house and will be V/LA til tomorrow. Am at Starbucks on my PDA and it's a pain to read anything on it.

[Captain Bandwagon]

Moving in is harder than I realized, will post soon. I can't wait to share my insights on recent events and unfoldings.

[Captain Bandwagon]

I think RW and wolfcrier are bussing.

VOTE: ROSSWILLIAM

hasdgfas gives me a pro-town vibe, and I believe tyhess's jester claim. Man. This game is twisted.

In the meantime, let's get some amens and hallelujahs!

[Captain Bandwagon]

pj, my bet's on that both RW and wolfcrier are scum, and they're bussing. It doesn't really matter which one of them we shoot for, my vote is equally fine on either.

[Captain Bandwagon]

Well if you all feel that way can you please vote me so I can stop checking in to see that two people have the guts to vote me while no one else is willing to take action. It seems pretty anti-town for you all to stick with RW after all this and not vote me after SO much logic pj and hasdgfas (or however its spelled) has made against me.

I

hate

posts like this so much.