Mini 1875: Pine's Death Trap Post Game - Town win!

[RadiantCowbells]

Nancy already claimed VT

Then she should have no trouble confirming that claim and popcorning.

I won't help lynch Frogg, that is dumb.

Why is lynching me dumb?

Your concept that your lynch clears anyone is nonsensical in a world where people believe you bussed, if that was a bus, then who is going to legit claim that your other interactions are anything but scum theatre? Hence - it is dumb if you're town, because it clears nothing. If you claim scum I'll agree your lynch is a good idea.

Uhh doesn't that assume that he's scum?

[Grendel]

I hate to admit it, but I'm very susceptible to self meta. Most of my Nancy read is gut paranoia and losing faith in my other scum reads. I don't think that's enough to justify voting her.

I think sheep is it?

VOTE: CooperativeSheep

I need to reread some of this roster tbh

pre-edit

Hi RC

[Grendel]

@Nancy

Uh, I just noticed that you said you thought you were at L-1. Does that include when you made the post here?

Anyway I don't have any site meta to back this up but I don't bus. I don't like bussing I think it's a shitty gimmick people use when they don't have the skill to play scum properly and the current bus-heavy meta is something I could really do without.

[Grendel]

RC, and Rautherdir are town

Keyser Söze, Akarin, Fro99er all look town

Mattblk is a uncounterclaimed power role

I don't know what to do with LUV, or nancy

And I haven't seen anything that makes me town read Cooperative Sheep

This is really where I am at rn.

[Cooperative Sheep]

@Grendel - I don't see an issue with agreeing with your thoughts on Nancy unless I'm claiming you're both scum together - then there would be an issue.

@RC - not that I can see. If anything I think the argument is presuming he's town.

[Grendel]

When I get back later tonight I'll look at Sheep, nancy, and LUV in that order.

Preeidt:

It looked like you were purposely leaving out how you agreed with me.

Because openly agreeing with a scum read could smudge your shiny ethos badge.

Also, if you have us both in the same lynch pool then that would inply your were entertaining the thought right?

[nancy]

This massclaim is a farce. It's Gredndel/Sheep. Anyone who doesn't see this is blind. I'm on fone will be home in a few hours to post properly.

[Fro99er]

@mod VLA until Tuesday but I'll probably be able to post here and there. More LA than V. Posted to all games

Noted.

[Keyser Söze]

Mass-claim is a bad idea this early - we're still in control.

We'll likely lynch in the VT's anyway today.

[Rautherdir]

@Pine: Could you prod Akarin again?

As to the mass claim: I'm just going to assume that all other town players are VT.

I don't see an especially good reason to lynch anyone right now. MBG, if you are our Jailkeeper you're basically dead. Which means you could try to jail scum instead of me, allowing me to investigate and you to have a chance to survive as well. Although now that I've said that they could just shoot me to see if you didn't protect me. At any rate:

VOTE: No Lynch

[Pine]

2 days zero hours as of a few minutes ago. I'll prod after dinner.

[mattblackguy]

Why are you guys suggesting no lynch? Seems awful to me. I think we should lynch in {Frogger,LUV,Sheep}

[Pine]

Akarin has been prodded.

[Grendel]

This massclaim is a farce. It's Gredndel/Sheep. Anyone who doesn't see this is blind. I'm on fone will be home in a few hours to post properly.

Okay... then help me bus my buddy?

[Grendel]

@Pine: Could you prod Akarin again?

As to the mass claim: I'm just going to assume that all other town players are VT.

I don't see an especially good reason to lynch anyone right now. MBG, if you are our Jailkeeper you're basically dead. Which means you could try to jail scum instead of me, allowing me to investigate and you to have a chance to survive as well. Although now that I've said that they could just shoot me to see if you didn't protect me. At any rate:

VOTE: No Lynch

But if he does target you then town might get an extra lynch.

With how big the town block is the scum could PoE'd out of existence with an extra lynch at town's disposable.

[Pine]

Ahem. It's spelled 'bloc'.

[Grendel]

(Hey Pine, If I shower you with praise would I get a mention in the flavor that doesn't involve getting maimed?)

on topic

Looking a sheep rn. Its late on my end so that's probably the only one I'm looking at tonight.

[Pine]

Shower me with praise all you like.

I think you just earned yourself an extra bloody end, though.

But hey! Maybe you win and survive!

HAHAHAHAHA THEY THINK THERE WILL BE SURVIVORS SHHHH DON'T TELL THEM

[nancy]

Home finally. Have time for a quick post then shower and I'll be back.

VOTE: Nancy

I believe this is the right lynch today.

I think you could be right

This rarely comes from Town, not to mention I'm the only slot scumreading Grendel and there is significant scum motivation here to get rid of me.

I've never bussed in any of my scum games either. It always seemed to work against what is supposed to be a team game. That's not to say that if I thought a bus could win me the game that I wouldn't take it though. But if everybody just "didn't bus", then town would mop up almost every game. Because a scum wagon would clear everybody on it.

Which wouldn't be fair, or fun

Unsolicited opinions in the middle of my exchange with RC. This is scum!Grendel trying to distance himself from the idea of being a busser in this bus-heavy scumteam.

I hate to admit it, but I'm very susceptible to self meta. Most of my Nancy read is gut paranoia and losing faith in my other scum reads. I don't think that's enough to justify voting her.

I think sheep is it?

VOTE: CooperativeSheep

I need to reread some of this roster tbh

pre-edit

Hi RC

This is not town!Grendel. Grendel has been reluctant to vote anyone all game and how he's jumping on Sheep. He's also moving me back out of his lynchpool, probably to reduce associatives with Sheep, who still wants me dead for ~reasons~.

Both Grendel and Sheep also have each other in their lynch pools. This is way too fucking convenient.

The last two scum are in {Grendel, LUV, Sheep}.

VOTE: Grendel

pedit can't wait Pine

[Grendel]

Yeah but like Grendal said on this page it's weird how he points out Grendal made a good point about Rau, but goes on to vote him without a word

What about my direct request that he sheep me onto Grendel - does that make his vote shift more or less suspect? Because since his vote was on RC doing nothing, and his Rau point didn't make him move his vote, we kind of have two possibilities.

1. The one you and Grendel are shopping - that he is scum who is indifferent about where he votes as long as he lynches town.

2. That he is town who doesn't have a strong enough opinion yet to marry himself to a wagon.

Both options seem quite feasible at this stage of the game - why do you classify it as "weird" and thus suspect it is scummy? Like, I never directly explained my scum read on Grendel, and poked at you more than I have Gerry (while calling you a lesser suspect) am I "weird" also? You're calling me town, so that seems like I'm missing something in how you're processing these issues.

The Viafam quote was addressing JarJar. Sheep defends JarJar, then throws suspension back at Viafam/Grendel for bringing up the point in the first place.

@Sheep What's your read on Grendel? I can't tell if you're actually scumreading him or not. I still think his reaction to his wagon yesterday was towny, and nothing he said so far day 2 pinged me as scummy. Kinda feels like you guys are wasting time arguing with each other when I think both of you guys are town

Gun to my head I'd call Grendel a scum read, but it's not a 'this is crystal clear in my head' sort of read. I am finding him kind of evasive by nature, I haven't really liked his votes, a wagon on him was reversed to a town flip very quickly, and his manipulative commentary shifting to 'you're arguing that my case for you being scum is incorrect' feels like a pretty awkward shift.

What was awkward about the shift?

And the transfer was that I came to was that your push didn't feel like you cared well I was scum, or not. It was for the sake of winning an argument. Obviously I was thinking that your case is wroung, but I don't think that was something I specifically said?

I thought it was pretty OB that I was trying to find my words.

I think now that I pointed it out it should be clear that I was suspecting Gerry early with my posts, You disagree?

Yeah, I do. You offered some general stabs at him in a soft/jokey manner. You did the same to many other people - if you suspected him at best I would be able to create a list of about five or six names you suspected equally. The vote did feel out of nowhere and without support.

I’m not sure where a stand on you, currently. I can’t help but feel that you have been manipulative.

Why?
I have literally not acheived any of my stated lynch goals yet in this game - what am I manipulating? Unless I manipulated you into voting Gerry somehow...?

I feel like you're trying to do more to prove me dumb rather then prove me scum. If that makes sense.

No, I'm not with you on that - I just asked why you think I'm manipulative. Do you feel I'm trying to manipulate you/make you look dumb by asking why you think I'm manipulative? I think when you make the accusation you ought to be able to talk about it to some degree - or at least tell me it's just a gut vibe or something.

Still owe 38+

I really disliked this post. I strongly disagree with the assertion that my vote of Gerry was “out of nowhere”. I clearly had interest in that slot that could be differencated from the rest of my early game banter. At least if Sheep actually cared about sorting me vs having enough evidence to make me look scummy.

Then that portion at the end where they take my original observation of Sheep as being “manipulative”, and cramming into their own statements as much as possible. It’s a rhetoric strategy for shutting down arguments. One I wouldn’t nesserly attribute as alignment indicative if it weren’t for the balanced image that Sheep has been displaying. As I think its an attempt to undermine an opponent’s credibility without relying on facts.

I mean, seriously, if I'm scum playing to look right all the time - I gotta be bussing at least one buddy, right?

I think reverse psychology is in play here. He makes the statement that if he was scum this game he’d be bussing right now, then as scum he goes on to do the opposite by staying on trans/Nancy, and town reading jarjar. Sort of like, “I stated I’d do this as scum, so I’d better do the opposite in the thread proper.”

JJD is (yet another townread of mine random blitzed to L-1...) the only one with the balls to even point out how BS sounding her reaction test was.
Like, look at her answer, "I 90% thought RC was town - so I hard pushed him as a test". Serious now? Probably like how she was laser guided to note she was at L-1, but immediately claimed without seeing if she had already claimed, or if people were still voting her - but at least she told us she was on a phone, y'know, to add empty veracity to her made up story.

Though Sheep never references it Sheep's accusations that Nancy's reaction test is bogus mirror JarJar thoughts quite closely.

Also, I don't think I mentioned it yet, but nancy's 1164 "pushing town" gambit could totally come from town. I say that because I did the same thing in another game where I pushed a case against OB town to fish for opportunistic scum votes. I'd perhaps say that its _more_ likely to come to town for the extension into hard work and creativity that scum are less inclined to try out. Though that can depend on the player.

[Grendel]

lol

Its okay Nancy. I thought about it, and you're probably town.

[mattblackguy]

@Nancy, If Grendel was scum with Sheep he would lose the game by bussing him right now. No way he can get past Jailkeeper, and cop.

VOTE: Sheep

Yeah this is the best lynch for today.

[Grendel]

Home finally. Have time for a quick post then shower and I'll be back.

VOTE: Nancy

I believe this is the right lynch today.

I think you could be right

This rarely comes from Town, not to mention I'm the only slot scumreading Grendel and there is significant scum motivation here to get rid of me.

I've never bussed in any of my scum games either. It always seemed to work against what is supposed to be a team game. That's not to say that if I thought a bus could win me the game that I wouldn't take it though. But if everybody just "didn't bus", then town would mop up almost every game. Because a scum wagon would clear everybody on it.

Which wouldn't be fair, or fun

Unsolicited opinions in the middle of my exchange with RC. This is scum!Grendel trying to distance himself from the idea of being a busser in this bus-heavy scumteam.

I hate to admit it, but I'm very susceptible to self meta. Most of my Nancy read is gut paranoia and losing faith in my other scum reads. I don't think that's enough to justify voting her.

I think sheep is it?

VOTE: CooperativeSheep

I need to reread some of this roster tbh

pre-edit

Hi RC

This is not town!Grendel. Grendel has been reluctant to vote anyone all game and how he's jumping on Sheep. He's also moving me back out of his lynchpool, probably to reduce associatives with Sheep, who still wants me dead for ~reasons~.

Both Grendel and Sheep also have each other in their lynch pools. This is way too fucking convenient.

The last two scum are in {Grendel, LUV, Sheep}.

VOTE: Grendel

pedit can't wait Pine

Uh, yeah, you clearly don't know enough about me to make any of the calls you're making here.

Like the "Grendel is pushing RC away from JarJar", argument was not impossible. I could see myself doing that as scum in some universes.But this is a joke compared to that.

1)The other wagon that I would have voted early in the day (Matt) was already close to being lynched. Compare that to here where Sheep had zero votes.

2)You are not the only one scum reading me. And if there was significant scum motivation in offing you now when the tides were turning why did I choose to back off?

[Grendel]

@Nancy

With the reads you have there's literally no reason cherry pick which lynch you want if we're both flipping scum. So you should get on Sheep.

[nancy]

@Nancy, If Grendel was scum with Sheep he would lose the game by bussing him right now. No way he can get past Jailkeeper, and cop.

VOTE: Sheep

Yeah this is the best lynch for today.

Don't think that's the case. Grendel is widely TRed and there'd be no reason for Cop to be checking him, especially if he was just first spot on a scum lynch. Besides if he's RB and mbg is JK then he can easily roleblock mbg and kill Rauth, problem solved.

1)The other wagon that I would have voted early in the day (Matt) was already close to being lynched. Compare that to here where Sheep had zero votes.

2)You are not the only one scum reading me. And if there was significant scum motivation in offing you now when the tides were turning why did I choose to back off?

Sorry how is randomly bussing Sheep relevant to not joining a lynch on mbg? I never argued that you were scumpartners with mbg.

Who else is scumreading you besides Sheep? LUV is sheeping me and won't even vote you. As I said, to reduce associatives. The tides were turning?

@Nancy

With the reads you have there's literally no reason cherry pick which lynch you want if we're both flipping scum. So you should get on Sheep.

I'm not cherrypicking. You're scum with either Sheep or LUV.