Large Normal 201 - House of Harmony - At The End(GAME OVER)

[Clumsy]

if we're not, I will hammer

just tell me who it's on

is it jaack? I could totally hammer jaack

Scumclaim?
Scummy regardless?

Why question mark on the second one?

[Clumsy]

I feel you Jaack. Just stick to the plan though.

[Clumsy]

if we're not, I will hammer

just tell me who it's on

is it jaack? I could totally hammer jaack

Just as much okay with lynching this as I am with Pep now.

[Clumsy]

So you agree that it's crap?

[Clumsy]

You haven't done anything all game. That's why you're in vig pool.

[Clumsy]

That damn cow

In other news i just murdered my hot chocolate by putting too much water in it.

A sadness.


Hey Pep, can we do a thing? When you get to dead thread and mod confirms my alignment to you, postgame can we get a public "I was death tunneling the Mason, who I was absolutely sure was scum, and I WAS WRONG"? I really want to see that. /salt

The spamming isn't appreciated either. For 1, it's spamming for the sake of spamming, and two, these games were recorded with the hammer vote as the last post that counted (at least the number 1 slot was).

[Clumsy]

Back from work. Catching up now. RIP Mason buddy.

Also, hi Jae! :)

[Clumsy]

Several things.
-Is there anyone else in the neighborhood or would it have just been you and Cloud?
-Does anyone else claim to be neighborized?
-Mafsilver is garbage, they should use MafBlack. But that color seems fine.
-Before we end the day, we need another vig list. This can wait a bit.
-I have a few reads that are starting to adjust, but I want to hold onto those for now
-Jae please clean up your spot. I don't want to lynch you. :( What do you think of everyone's reads on your slot?

[Clumsy]

Just gonna do bulletpoints because effort.

-Suddenly not liking Gerry wagon.
-Alisae, shut up. Please. I know. It's apparent. But when people don't see it, it's telling. Don't make me throw something at you.
-There is a LOT of information to be gained around Gerry/Transcend/Alisae/Fro99er me thinks.
-Alisae, SHUT UP. You hate it when people ruin your reaction tests. Stop ruining information for town. Damn.
-Zach, why are you townreading Pere? This is all I found in your catch up about them: "Peregrine isn't giving me too much to indicate one way or another, I have a completed town game with him and his activity level was similar". That's enough to earn a townread in a 187 page game?

[Clumsy]

Also, Zach, how're those scum tells working for ya? Something tells me they may not always be correct and people rely on them too much... >_>

[Clumsy]

"1370 (Clumsy) – “Jesus my predecessor is a scum-fuck. >_< ”

Where did I hear the scumtell that calling your predecessor scummy makes you scum?

I believe it."

I was asked my opinion. I gave it truthfully. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You mention PereV all of twice in your entire catch up, but you're confident enough to put him as town instead of null because of his low activity? What?

[Clumsy]

To me, it would make sense that if someone is generally low activity as town, then they would also be low activity as scum for 2 reasons.

1. Because they're busy/unmotivated/not super into the game, which wouldn't change between alignments
2. Because they're emulating their town game

I see no reason why that should be a townread given your catch up.

[Clumsy]

The problem I have with your read is that you seem to be basing it off of their activity level, which is bad reasoning. I'm assuming it's not because their posts made you think that they were town, as you didn't mention them in your catch up. Note: I ctrl+f'd his name, because I'm not cross referencing every post count. If there are certain posts you liked, could you please point them out?

[Clumsy]

Trust me, I get gut. I fly by almost nothing -but- gut day 1 of games. I was just expecting more than that out of a -town- read. Or is it more of a lean town thing?

I'm not saying you should necessarily scum-read him, I just don't think there's enough there (from my perspective) to put a big townread on him. I've also never played with him before so there's that.

Either way, I'd rather PV be in the vig pool than the lynch pool today.

[Clumsy]

There is a LOT of information to be gained around Gerry/Transcend/Alisae/Fro99er me thinks.

Why? Alisae is a sheep. Frogger maybe. Transcend why. Me Why?

They all have/had strong reads on one another, leading to strong associations. For example, if Transcend flips scum, it would make Alisae look a lot worse (If I remember correctly, Transcend has been defending Alisae all game, but I'm not looking through things right now.)

[Clumsy]

Could be. Could not be. Either way, there's information to be gained there, and that's good for the gamestate. We could look back through those posts knowing alignment. Like I need to do with Cloudkicker.

Also, Cloud has now been Maf 2/2 in games I have played with him. (Completed game). Remind me of that next time I play with him for RVS. XD

[Clumsy]

So far I'm seeing

Zach wants to hang Transcend
Zach is against Gerry wagon
Drealmerz7 is wanting Transcend
Jaack is wanting Gerry
Zach is wanting Elena
Elena is wanting Transcend
Transcend is wanting Elena

Zach how do you feel about one of your scum reads voting another scum read?

Willing to vote Elena as well I probably will.

It seems that some maintain scumreads on my slot but no one save for Clumsy has engaged me on content in my catch up and no one at all has addressed the interactions in context for which I find Fro99er likely to be mafia, either disagreeing with or agreeing with them or simply commenting on it.

Yeah, I figured from yesterday that scum is running the town right now, this makes me think the same.

I want to hear more from Jae.

Same for Yoshi.

PereV as well but from what I gather that's not going to happen.

Currently liking Kuror0 for town I think.

Why does it feel like more people scumread Transcend than are actually voting there?

[Clumsy]

._. Why did you single me out of everyone else?

Also, links pls?

[Clumsy]

@Mod:

PereV unvoted last page. I thought people were reaction testing so I didn't mention it. I wasn't expecting a Mod Reaction test!! :D

Let me look through those games Gerry. I'm not gonna lie, I was moving you down on my slots, but looking around a bit I'm having a bit of pause here. I'm starting to think this isn't the correct lynch.

In the meantime, everyone else, particularly Kuror0: I modded a game with Drealmerz where he was town. His posting doesn't seem quite the same to me. Check it out for a little bit of homework? It's nowhere near the length of this one.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=200

Lol thanks, I'm just blind.

[Clumsy]

Alisae has been jumping from wagon to wagon as soon as there is any pressure there. That's why I've been scum reading them for a while, that plus mason outing.

[Clumsy]

Why is it scummy to hide information from the town Clums?
UNVOTE:

Wat?

Also, that game was a trainwreck. Jeez. I liked the puns though. Pair-O-Grin V's. Wow.

So what I saw was Drealmerz7 tunneling confirmed town. That's severely bad town play more than bad reads, but I get your point. He (wrongly) scum read you so hard it broke the confirmed town status. Like Pep.

Are there any other games that you two were in? Dreal, asking you too. If this is the only example of you knowing how to town read Gerry... then that's straight up BS.

[Clumsy]

I wish we had more interaction from PV since he was also in the game with you two.

[Clumsy]

P-edit: Easy. Target has a PT or doesn't. They're either a:
-Mason
-Neighbor
-Mafia

Done.

Also, going by my post here, having a scum neighborizor die is a big boost to Yoshi's role power.

[Clumsy]

Clums why is it scummy to hide information from the town?
Sure that information could be given to scum by outing it, but it just causes more confusion if information was kept away from other townies like us.
Scum like that confusion and would rather townies get confused and push more townies. No?

Also right now I'm trying to decide if I should hop onto Kuror0 or PV.

I'm saying its scummy to OUT the mason information. You didn't just do that today either, you did it Day 1, after I said repeatedly to stop. Multiple people did and I don't get why that's okay. If people push onto the masons, it -gives us information-. The lynch won't happen unless a LOLhammer happens, because *Mason*. But outing the information not only hands it to scum on a silver platter (or the other scum team if you're scum), it also denies town information. Instead of being able to look at votes and interaction with a now LIVE CONFIRMED TOWN, we just have Innocent Children running around. Does that make sense now?

[Clumsy]

Alisae. What is your frogger read, you thought they were scum yesterday

I wanna flip the following nerds:
drealmerz/Yoshi, Zach, PV.

I still do SR Kuror0 but I dunno what flipping him would exactly tell us.

pedit: Garry I'm not sure on my Frogger read currently.

oh wait.
Frogger was scum on the wagon too.

I wanna flip the following nerds:
drealmerz/Yoshi, Zach, PV.

I still do SR Kuror0 but I dunno what flipping him would exactly tell us.

pedit: Garry I'm not sure on my Frogger read currently.

Oh really????? Because you just called him scum 12 hours ago. What changed????????????

Well within those 12 hours I may or may have not have hit my head.
nullscum is still scum.
It's him pointin out the slip which wierds me out.

CAN WE TALK ABOUT THIS SEQUENCE OF POSTS PLEASE

This is extremely gross.

[Clumsy]

Spoiler: Alisae's reads on Frogger

{me}
{Trans, Pine, Frogger, Pere, Garry, Yoshi}
{Elena}
{Lemon, Manuel, Kuror0}
{Gamma, Iron, Drealmerz}
{Mick, Clum}
{Pep}

Trans I'll lynch Mack or Jaack out of those you mentioned. I wanna give Cabd's slot a bit more time.

Reads list plz

{me}
{Trans, Pine, Frogger, Pere, Garry, Yoshi}
{Elena, Manuel, Pep}
{Cabd}
{Kuror0}
{Gamma, Iron, Drealmerz}
{Mick, Clum}

Trans I really wanted to TR Froggy, but fruit for thought:
Froggy is on the other scumteam trying to push for Clum's lynch who they genuinely believe is scum.

Yeah I thought so too.
But it's like Froggy is trying to avoid pressuring the Jaack slot altogether cuz he's complaining that his wagon has resistance. Why do you think that is?

Oh yeah someone asked for updated reads
{Clumsy, me}
{Iron, Trans, Garry, Frogger, Pere}
{Elena, Mick, Manuel, Pep}
{Yoshi, Cabd}
{Gamma, kuror0}
{Drealmerz}
{Jaack, Pine}

Clum do you like this readlist?

pedit: Fine, I'll settle for that Trans
VOTE: Jaack

{Me, Clum}
{Manuel, Mick, Iron, Trans, Garry, Frogger, Pere}
{Cabd, Pep}
{Elena, drealmerz, Gamma}
{Kuror0, Jaack, Pine, Yoshi}

Those are my reads Mick.

pedit: Frogger I don't think Mick was attempting to copy down someone's homework, but ok.
pedit2: ffs

Why are you SRing Frogger and Iron?

pedit: Elena it's a very strong gut feeling with a lot of evidence to back it up.

Then we have THIS gem.

Can you help me lynch obvious mefia froggy ?

Gimmie a case.
Because I have them as a really strong TR.
But I can see them being scum.
But I think their actions are townmotivated.
But I can still see them being scum.

Ah, alisae in a nutshell. I can give you a case once in a while as long as you dont expect it from me in the future

Actually yeah.
Cloudie I trust you on your Frogger read.
Thing is I'll probably be a lot more convinced about it if Jaack flips scum.

Here's why. Frogger was pushing Clums hard. Frogger was pushing Yoshi hard. Frogger SR'd Jaack, but I don't particularly them pushing Jaack as hard as he did Yoshi and Clums.

So Alisae completely flips their game long town read on Frogger after Cloud comes in and says please. Follows Cloud onto the wagon.

What was Cloud again?

Oh yeah. Scum. Provided no case to Alisae and got them to 180 their read on someone they townread all game long up to that point.

[Clumsy]

Things I think are obvious:
Frog and Cloud are not on the same team
There was not enough info for Alisae to flip their read from Town Frogger (really strong TR) given from CloudKicker
Alisae continued to out mason information after being told to stop multiple times. I find it strange that no one else is pointing this out even though we got onto someone else about it (Yoshi I think? I don't remember). Alisae has continued to out Masonry info.

I think I want this hung today.

VOTE: Alisae

[Clumsy]

That's an even crappier reaction test. (Cuz that role would be bastard). :P

[Clumsy]

-sigh- another fake claim.

[Clumsy]

We don't even need that.

Mechanics which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
Those affecting a role's alignment (no Cults)
Anything which significantly affects the core mechanic of majority/plurality lynches (no Kingmaker, for example)
Anything resolving with a random element

Post Restrictions (other than those included in the ruleset, such as "No quoting your Role PM").

Grey list roles are fine in a restricted number. Explicitly non normal roles cannot be in normal games.

[Clumsy]

Why haven't you responded to what I've said Alisae?

[Clumsy]

Why would you flip your strong all-game town read on Frogger with a "please"?

[Clumsy]

Why would you flip your strong all-game town read on Frogger with a "please"?

Because Pine said this and I was sorta nodding along with this for awhile but they seemed to act like really confident town so I shrugged it off as Frogger just playing their towngame cuz no one believed me:

I don't see scum coming up with a out-of-the-blue hard TR on Ramcius right now. There's no benefit.

Consider the following from Scum!PV's perspective:

-If you think that Ram is Town, why use your clout to help him? Let him soak a mislynch. Put him in your null reads to avoid suspicion, maybe on the null-Town side if you really want to fish for Towncred should he flip Town.
-If you think Ram is opposing scum, you definitely don't go out on a limb for him. You push for his lynch.
-If you think he's null, just toss him in with the rest.

What does Pine talking about PV have to do with you on Frogger?

[Clumsy]

Why would you flip your strong all-game town read on Frogger with a "please"?

Because Pine said this and I was sorta nodding along with this for awhile but they seemed to act like really confident town so I shrugged it off as Frogger just playing their towngame cuz no one believed me:

I don't see scum coming up with a out-of-the-blue hard TR on Ramcius right now. There's no benefit.

Consider the following from Scum!PV's perspective:

-If you think that Ram is Town, why use your clout to help him? Let him soak a mislynch. Put him in your null reads to avoid suspicion, maybe on the null-Town side if you really want to fish for Towncred should he flip Town.
-If you think Ram is opposing scum, you definitely don't go out on a limb for him. You push for his lynch.
-If you think he's null, just toss him in with the rest.

What does Pine talking about PV have to do with you on Frogger?

I'm using what Pine said and applying it to Frogger. Frogger thought Ram/Clums could be apposing scum (assuming Frogger is scum in this case), so Frogger pushed you really hard. He also whined and complained a lot when your wagon was getting derailed by resistance.

So what you're saying is that you were thinking Frogger was scum, but kept them as a strong town read because it didn't jive with anyone else? What? Am I misunderstanding something here?

[Clumsy]

Let's all stay friends, guys.

"I'm not your guy, pal!"

I'm not your pal, dude!"
-S

Question for town:

Where is everyone's reads on Alisae?

[Clumsy]

Okay, I knew I had to be misunderstanding something there, lol. Where were you first suspecting Frogger? When did you give up on that thought because of Occam's?

[Clumsy]

One thing tho

How did you guys lynch Pep and not this:

VOTE: alisae

not RVS

y vote the mason?
VOTE: drealmerz7

Lol you belive his claim?

Not really but it's antitown to vote a mason claim anyway

who says there's only 2 teams?

Black
White
Obv 2 teams

s o
b a d
lol

catching up on the bullshit pages since I slept, responding to w/e then gonna continue my reread after reading up cuz flips yo.

I agree the first one is really bad, but I don't get the second one? That was my assumption coming in too.

[Clumsy]

Jae sell me on scum!Trans.

Ooh I got this one.

Ahem.

Pls join meh on dis one.

[Clumsy]

Catching up now. From phone. I'm the mod's tag partner. Fight us.

For f***'s sake it was for emphasis on how much I TR him. You two are definitely scum.

I thought that was pretty obvious. Looked like Flogger throwing mud.

[Clumsy]

clumsy, no offense but you're the one legit 100% confirmed town here. you need to lead.

Gerry, Yes, but sleep gets me 10 pages behind, so I need time to catch up.

And I like sleep.

Jae, why are you specifically talking to me about this macro VCA? Why not talk to everyone?

Also, if you've already done the legwork there, could you post it?

I've already said my piece about Alisae, they've been on the bottom half of my list all game.

[Clumsy]

-sigh- I like the people on Alisae's wagon more tbh.

[Clumsy]

@Clumsy Alisae is town, please vote elsewhere. Macro level vca suggests that both scum teams d1 had no qualms about Ali being the leading wagon and possible apathy lynch.

Actually, calling BS on this.

Alisae - [4] drealmerz7, Ramcius, Indigo, BigYoshiFan

That was the biggest the Alisae wagon ever got on D1, and this was early D1. That's L-6. Hardly a leading wagon when we had 3 people get run up to L-2 or L-1, and how is that enough information to suggest that both scum teams had that view? Furthermore, the votes then slid of Alisae like water off a duck's back as the day went on. This was not a leading wagon. This was not in line to be an apathy lynch. And that is not enough information to make that claim. Not to mention that of the people that were on the wagon, one of them is Yoshi who's read has not changed there, and the other was Ramicus, who is me and was a mason. The others that got onto that slot were Drealmerz7, kuror0, Indigo/Elena, and Ironstove/your slot. Are you telling me that that encompasses the entirety of both scum teams?

P-edit: Only if you think that L-6 is a strong leading wagon, and even then, most of D1, they had another wagon tied or 1 vote behind them until things exploded on... my slot I think? I think I was first. Actually, looking back, the first major one was Ironstove. Which then dropped off.

P-edit 2: If he's scum and actually has that role, wouldn't he also be trying to find the other scum team? In fact, if he found someone on the opposite scum team, that would make him look even better.

[Clumsy]

If Transcend flips town, I don't think I'll come off of Alisae tomorrow. Seems like the counterwagon. That said, i think I'm okay with flipping Transcend. Transcend, do you have a claim for us?

[Clumsy]

I like the idea of me deciding vig shots, but I'd like a little input from everyone else too (taken with a grain of salt).

My list that I would like is [PeregrineV, Drealmerz7, and Zach].

[Clumsy]

I like the idea of me deciding vig shots, but I'd like a little input from everyone else too (taken with a grain of salt).

My list that I would like is [PeregrineV, Drealmerz7, and Zach].

take out pv imo

And put who in? I'm having a really hard time reading PV in this game, low interaction (which is normal I'm gathering), but I've never played with him before I don't think.

I should be checked since I'm getting scumread by everyone and their mother, no?

I agree with this. Maybe a check pool of [Alisae, Jaereed, and Gerry]?

First and third will clear them from mafia if it comes back negative, seeing as they are being talked about being scum a lot. Second will clear Jaereed and we can all then sink in their analysis with a little less worry. Assuming they come back negative of course.

Jaack, I know you just voted Yoshi, but who else would you like to be hung today?

[Clumsy]

@Mod:

Any kind of neighborizing effects happen -before- investigations, correct?

[Clumsy]

Something like

{Clumsy, Jaack}

{Gerry, Jae, Yoshi}

{Alisae, Fro9, D7, PV}

{kuro, Mick}

-GAP-

{Elena, Zach}

[LYNCH] Pepchoninga - [10] Manuel87, Elena Fisher, Alisae, Fro99er, Pine, ConManMick, Jaack, Clumsy, Alisae, drealmerz7, Transcend

Vca time. Manuel, Clumsy, Pine, Jaack, d7 all conf town or dead

I'm town.

That leaves elena (early on the lynch, diverted most of her attention to getting the slot lynched).

Fro99er (I'm pretty sure he's town)

Mick (is probably town)

Alisae (is also probably town)

Alisae lynch could be promising as I'm not too happy with him today and I've been waffly about him, but i want the Zach slot ran up.

Zach and Elena are scum, just on different teams

P sure Alisae is white scum

Never lynch gerry, Jae, or yoshi.

What changed between all of these in regards to Alisae?

[Clumsy]

Alisae lynch could be promising as I'm not too happy with him today and I've been waffly about him, but i want the Zach slot ran up.

Haven't been happy with him today and was waffly on him rest of game with a slight lean on town

You already said that. Expand upon why you're not happy with him today and why you're waffly on him.

[Clumsy]

Let's not get heated fellas

I think I'm L-1

Fro99er are you absolutely sure I'm scum because I'm really not and i think you're fairly confbiased on me as well.

Bolded sentence is gross as hell.

hey dont lynch anyone until clumsy comes back with vig targets

I already put my opinion in. However, I'd like to change it a bit.

I like the idea of me deciding vig shots, but I'd like a little input from everyone else too (taken with a grain of salt).

My list that I would like is [PeregrineV, Drealmerz7, and Zach].

Updated to [Zach, PeregrineV, Alisae/Transcend, whoever doesn't die today if the lynched on flips town].

Others have said that PeregrineV should be removed from this, but if I get to late game, I don't want to be in LyLo with PV to be honest. If he's town, he's not going to be killed by scum I don't think. I want to look at Frogger more closely after the lynch today to see if there's something to learn there.


I don't have anymore time tonight, and I'm supposed to be up in 6 hours to go to work. I will have more time after work tomorrow.

[Clumsy]

Also, I hate the idea that Yoshi is this deadset on dreal being a traitor. It doesn't make sense to me either.

[Clumsy]

No. Multiball. But if Trans flips today and flips town, I definitely want you in the vig pool.

[Clumsy]

hey dont lynch anyone until clumsy comes back with vig targets

I already put my opinion in. However, I'd like to change it a bit.

I like the idea of me deciding vig shots, but I'd like a little input from everyone else too (taken with a grain of salt).

My list that I would like is [PeregrineV, Drealmerz7, and Zach].

Updated to [Zach, PeregrineV, Alisae/Transcend, whoever doesn't die today if the lynched on flips town].

Others have said that PeregrineV should be removed from this, but if I get to late game, I don't want to be in LyLo with PV to be honest. If he's town, he's not going to be killed by scum I don't think. I want to look at Frogger more closely after the lynch today to see if there's something to learn there.

Gerry please. I just did. [Zach, PeregrineV, Transcend/Alisae]

[Clumsy]

Are we wanting a check pool or just an outright vote?

[Clumsy]

Fully willing to vote either of these wagons. It doesn't look like any other wagon will happen today, so Jaack and Transcend need to vote. Want to get Peregrine's thoughts too. I don't like the silence there, it limits reads and interaction, which will make things harder the further we get. :/

[Clumsy]

UNVOTE:

[Clumsy]

I want to throw something at this game. It's like reading 7 different books at the same time and trying to stitch together "Eragon is actually evil because Katniss shot Harry's wand after Yugi played Platinum Angel against Brock in their Shaolin Showdown."

aoeihgaokhgaokjdfghakdjgh

If we're not hanging Alisae I expect a 100% clear from Jae tomorrow or we're hanging both. I'm fine with lynching Transcend, not sure about Elena. I liked them early but there's been a lot of talk there and I'll be honest, my eyes glazed over for the last, like, 3 pages. I'll take another shot at reading this later, because nothing is sinking in right now.

[Clumsy]

If we're hanging Transcend my thoughts:

Yoshi Check Elena
Vig in [Zach, drealmerz7, ....not sure]
Jae to Alisae

If we switch to Elena, sub in Transcend for the check.

[Clumsy]

Oh wait I forgot Yoshi checked there

Don't mind me

[Clumsy]

I guess the vig shot would be determined a lot by wagon composition and the flip. Obviously there's a few shots that shouldn't happen (Masonry, Jae for check, Alisae for check, drealmerz7 (don't mind me I'm dumb)). It's actually getting a bit narrow.

[Clumsy]

I could also get behind checking Jae.

[Clumsy]

VOTE: Transcend

At work, be back late tonight. I like this wagon better. L-2.

[Clumsy]

But Transcend, you are a dog

[Clumsy]

Clumsy like my new avi?

Yeah! Looks cool.

I do not care what you think of my alignment at this current moment. All i ask is that you do not piss me off anymore than i already am.

._. Did I do something?


I'm catching up on stuff now. Long day at work, but I have chicken nuggets now. :D

[Clumsy]

Am I the only one slightly skeptical about Jae's ability to clear? Like, less "I don't think they can", and more "I'm worried about the possibility of them (Jae and Alisae) being scum together." I think I mentioned that it would also be an okay idea to check Jae for PTs, because if we clear there, that's 100% 2 more confirmed townies.

Just me? Okay. ._.

[Clumsy]

I mean so far we've had a Doctor, a Role PM cop, a Masonry, whatever Jae is... Balance is relative. Although, thinking on it, it's a bit odd to have 2 of the same kind of role, informational... I don't think I would put both a role-cop and a Neopolitan together. Or maybe I would. >_<

Also, what was the Vig pool again? I really hope that he hit Frogger.

That's 1 Black Maf down, 2 White Maf down. I'm going to look at associatives. Eventually. Probably.

[Clumsy]

Lol. What about Zach and Kuror0 in there?

[Clumsy]

If I had to make a pool of 3, I'd say Zach, Elena, Gerry, but that depends on Jae's results, and would simply be PoE. The problem is that we have no way of confirming Jae now with Yoshi dead.

[Clumsy]

ConManMick, drealmerz7, Jaack, kuror0: All fine in my book. Jaack is 90% town, I have a good gutread that Kuror0 is town.

JaeReed, Alisae: These two are awaiting Night results and a claim.

Elena Fisher, Zachstralkita, Clumsy, gerryoat: That leaves these. I believe we have 2 Black Mafia and 1 White Mafia left. And it sure isn't me.

[Clumsy]

7:2:1 left. We should try to prioritize hitting Black Mafia today.

[Clumsy]

Indeed. But we need to hear from Jaereed first.

[Clumsy]

That's what I'm worried about. And OF COURSE Yoshi dies.

[Clumsy]

Who are you calling for to be lynched today Elena?

[Clumsy]

It's all good. It happens. So as far as I'm concerned, drealmerz is almost as confirmed as I am.

[Clumsy]

Less so.

[Clumsy]

Alisae, why are you believe that claim so easily?

[Clumsy]

Jae, are you x-shot?

P-edit: Excuse me for not just believing you outright in a game about lying. :P

[Clumsy]

Also why shoot Peregrine instead of the fake Vig? A possible scum kill over a definite one? I get the CC thing, but... meh.

[Clumsy]

YO NERDS, LOOK AT THIS SWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG

Was that vigi shot legit? If not I don't like the fake vigi shot and the fake confirmation that the vigi shot was real.

If I was a vigi and I had 2 bullets and I was in a room with gerry, hitler, and stalin, I would shoot gerry twice.

This is exactly what I was looking for, but I couldn't find anything. Thanks.

There's just one more thing bothering me though: Why did Jaack claim 2-shot vig?

[Clumsy]

Actually, wait, why did I say to focus on black may? Get last white maf and it's less deaths in the night. I'm on mobile right now, can someone tell me who is likely the last White?

[Clumsy]

8 Alive. 2 scum left (probably).

That means if we manage to mislynch, 1 dies tonight.

6 alive, 2 scum. If we mislynch again, 1 dies at night, that leaves us at 4 alive, 2 scum, GG. So essentially if we miss scum today, tomorrow is MyLo.

I think it's pretty safe to confirm now that Mick is my other Mason partner. That is, if anyone still didnt' know.

So me, Mick, and Dreal are all out of the lynch pool.

That leaves Elena>Zach>Gerry>Kuror0>Alisae as my lynch order.

Elena, have you claimed yet? I don't have much time so I don't want to go digging, I don't think you did. Could you claim for me please? Because I intend to vote you.

[Clumsy]

VOTE: Transcend

yeah i was scum but I'll help you out

my team has a role cop and Elena Fisher is a 1-shot strongman

I don't think I've ever seen a town strongman so I think you know what this means

Toodles.

You beat me to it Alisae. Although, Transcend said Rolecop, when Frog was actually a Neapolitan... although that might be a small cover in case Frog needed to claim.

I'm fine with voting this I think. I do want to hear from Mick and Kuror0 first though.

[Clumsy]

Indeed. But Mick hasn't been on since the flip.

[Clumsy]

The flip only happened two hours ago, I'm not holding that against him, lol.

And ours has a fair bit of it... although with you it would surely be more interesting.

Agh stop buddying me

[Clumsy]

CLUMS!
MICK IS BULLYING ME!

Well, get your grammar in line and that won't be a problem. ;)

[Clumsy]

Here I am!

-Reads thread-

There I go! Bye!

(Work in 6 hours, gonna sleep, be back tomorrow afternoon.)

[Clumsy]

(Work in 6 hours, gonna sleep, be back tomorrow afternoon.)

-_-

[Clumsy]

Clum you think me and zach are a team so why don't we just lynch him now he's been failing the past day

This post stood out to me. This is what I'm getting from it.
"Lynch Zach today, so that when he flips town, I can say 'See, you were wrong, you're wrong about me too,' and steer the wagon away from me again."

Anyone else catching that vibe? You're constantly saying to lynch Zach instead of you. I get that you two are the main wagons, but it feels very strange to me.

More catchup at some point here, just got home.

[Clumsy]

So basically, Masons decide the lynch. Cool. Let me consult with my colleague.

(Also, as a side note, if we mislynch today, night kill goes through, that puts us in Mylo. However, I think we should still lynch. Reason being is that the Masons will be killed tonight and tomorrow. Usually, no lynching in Mylo is better because it cuts down on the numbers and gives better odds for town, but we'll just be losing confirmed town at that point.)

[Clumsy]

I've been here. Just kinda waiting on Mick so we can decide and lynch. >_>

[Clumsy]

Zach, in your opinion, why was Jae killed over me?

[Clumsy]

I've been scumreading Zach for a while now, but my gut is screaming Elena. JSLDIsdjnSFD. Going to probe around I think, settle it for myself

[Clumsy]

B is an especially good point. Elena, why did scum kill Jae over me?

[Clumsy]

Everyone ready for hammer?

[Clumsy]

VOTE: Zach

[Clumsy]

Fun fact: I'm in that movie. :D

[Clumsy]

I'm waiting for Kuror0. I really actually think that he's town, I don't see a world that he's scum in this, so I won't be lynching him. Kuror0, who is scum?

[Clumsy]

I think I have a pretty good idea but I want to see if Kuror0 came to the same conclusion I did.

[Clumsy]

I've modded for him before, this is screaming town from him. So I want to hear what he thinks and add that to mine.

[Clumsy]

Make sure not to hammer without me coming back btw. Very very busy this week, Valentine's Day while working at a restaurant is crazy.

[Clumsy]

Back from work. I've read over Mick's notes in our Mason Thread. He did so much work in there, I'm glad I decided to do this. He has a really good case for Gerry scum, with VC's and quotes and everything. I wish I could paste it here but site rules and such. Again, NO ONE HAMMER ANYTHING. But who's willing to join me on a Gerry wagon?

[Clumsy]

Ugh it's all so long and I'm not allowed to copy paste it. It's really convincing though, he put in a lot of work into it. I'll try to work up a short version of it, but do you think it could be possible?

[Clumsy]

Kuror0? Elena? Thoughts?

[Clumsy]

Then someone unvote?

[Clumsy]

So before Zach's obvscum posting I had this written out to post in twilight since I didn't want the person to unvote. Now I'm not as sure on it but I do still believe it's a tell. I'm spoilering it here, but take it with a grain of salt, obviously. My preference has actually changed to "on this flip lynch the fuck out of Zach". I might be omgus'ing though. After this town should be the driving force behind the lynches I think though.

Spoiler:

gerry case:

Gerry as town is completely uninvolved with games. He hates playing town and loves playing scum:

Look through these ISOs in the night phase and you'll see why he's confscum here.

Town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=68870 - VT
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=69080 - VT?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=69351 - Doctor
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=68970 - VT
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=69209 - Town Backup (hydra with MariaR/SoniaNevermind, named Sondam)

Scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=69960 - maf
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=67506 - maf
http://emforummaf.prophpbb.com/search.p ... sf=msgonly - maf traitor
https://epicmafia.com/topic/80150?page=2&_pjax=%23posts - maf

All that said, there is one outlier that i can think of off the top of my head. He was a treestump with no reveal upon flip and roleplaying as Komaeda the whole game:
http://emforummaf.prophpbb.com/search.p ... r=gerryoat

I don't believe this is another outlier game. His defense was that it's multiball, but if you go back to his early game posting there was still more there before he "knew" it was mb (and no I don't believe that was a townslip, and Transcend didn't either, I think, he was likely buddying him to not get shot from the other team). You'll also note in one of those mafia games (Dream mafia) he defended his meta against me by saying it was maria's game so he was actually trying. Sounds similar to his defense that it's multiball so he's actually trying because it's new.

There's also the matter of his hard tr'ing Transcend (not sure if he hard tr Cloudkicker but I'll probably want to check this for follow-up if I live through the night) as he has experience with both of them from epicmafia and has played a decent amount of games with them here too. It's not impossible to misread your friends that badly as town but it's a little less likely imo.

After a gerry lynch you guys will probably have this in the bag. I'd personally be looking between Zach and Elena, with a leaning towards Zach. I'd probably want to look over 6287 if gerry is black scum, if he's white there'd be no need obviously, as anything more than 3 scum on each team is horribly unbalanced and a guaranteed town loss, and with mastin as a reviewer it wouldn't have gotten past review.

JaeReed was heavily suspecting Gerry here, and I think was the only one doing so. Jae wanted Gerry hung after Zach. Jae was right on Zach, right here too?

[Clumsy]

Why are you saying that you're sorry?

[Clumsy]

Alisae, what does your post earlier here mean? "I know you're town Kuror, I was gambiting". What were you hoping to gain from that?

[Clumsy]

Kuror, thoughts?

[Clumsy]

Sure thing Kuror0, almost done formatting.

Elena, I need your input here.

[Clumsy]

Also please, again, no hammers yet. Very important.

[Clumsy]

Alright, so here's the part where I get things thrown at my head. I lied. A lot. I came into this day fully wanting to lynch Kuror0. I don't hard townread him. The best I had was a gutread from the beginning of the game, and that doesn't cut it here. The wagon composition points to him. Also, there is no case in the Mason thread against Gerry. I wanted to see what happened if I said that as confirmed town against the one who no one was suspecting. However, if it's not Kuror0, a short day phase and then me dying in the night doesn't make a good next day for town. So I decided to generate some content here for you guys to draw off of tomorrow. Some notes I took:

Spoiler: Notes

-Alisae very eager to hop from wagon to wagon. Especially onto Gerry, who Alisae said was next to conf-town.

Yeah Kuror is town for making that gambit.
Drealmerz is confirmed
Clums is a mason.
Garrybote is pretty much conftown.

PoE decides that Elena is scum.

Garrybote talk to me ;~;

Kuror. I know you're town.
I was gambiting.
Unvote to hear Clums.

VOTE: Garrybote

I trust you completely. I think Garrybote is the best lynch here honestly.
Like I really found it strange that almost every situation that wasn't Me, Kuror, and Elena he was going to lylo.

-Gerry seems to be the only one to notice this.
-Alisae cites it as being intrigued from drawing out the LyLo thing.

Lylo Situations:
----------------------
Kuror, Me, Elena
Garrybote, Elena, Kuror
Garrybote, Elena, Me
Garrybote, Kuror, Me

Kuror in a lylo situation between Me, and Elena, who are you most likely to vote?
Elena, in a lylo situation between Me and Kuror, who are you most likely to vote?
Garrybote, in a lylo situation with Me, Kuror, who would you vote? What about in Kuror v Elena? What about in Me v Elena?

-This post is done Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:00 pm, "Gerry is pretty much conf town" at Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:46 pm, first mention of Gerry being scum at Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:06 pm. Why is it only brought up when the Mason shows interest there first?
-Kuror0 shows great reluctance to shift to Gerry, keeping his reads steady. That's... really townie I think.
-Elena also shows restraint to changing read on Gerry.
-The only one that does change their read onto Gerry... is Alisae.


My opinion: I think that if it isn't Kuror0, it's Alisae. Way too eager to try to lead into something, votes going all over the place. Looks like trying to lead town somewhat so that the vote doesn't go onto them. When the vote did swing their way, ATE went flying everywhere. Now Alisae is digging deeper and deeper into Gerry in anticipation of a big post proving his "guilt", where everyone else is very skeptical.

I hope all this helps, especially if it's a mislynch today and, lets face it, I'll be gone tomorrow if that's the case. But several pages of interaction here should help town out.

What does everyone make of these notes? Do we still want to lynch Kuror0? Now that all this is open, I'm still okay with lynching there, but less sure than before.

[Clumsy]

It wasn't meant as a joke Alisae.

[Clumsy]

Why did you switch back of Gerry?

[Clumsy]

Off*

[Clumsy]

Jumping wagon to wagon and flipping reads at the slightest breeze doesn't scream trying to find scum though.

[Clumsy]

Kuror. I know you're town.
I was gambiting.
Unvote to hear Clums.

VOTE: Garrybote

...
...
...
That is a mean, but a very clever joke, I'll give you that one :D
VOTE: Kuror

If you know he's town, why are you back here?

[Clumsy]

Elena and Gerry, thoughts?

[Clumsy]

VOTE: Alisae

If this is town, I'm sure I'll get an earful in dead thread. If so, good luck tomorrow town!

[Clumsy]

God damn it.

[Clumsy]

Btw are you all VT?

[Clumsy]

I'm here. Ugh. I'm lost honestly. I knew Dreal was clear, and honestly I expected by be dead at this point. I could see any of you being scum, which really annoys me. Just... everyone build cases I guess. We have time, so no huge rush. I'll give everything a look over and contribute along with.

[Clumsy]

Kuror makes sense because of wagon compositions of the day of Zach lynch. It was split 50/50, with the Masons being the deciding factor. If scum wasn't bussing (i.e. Kuror), then Masons could decide either way. If we assume Kuror is scum, if he put himself into a bussing position, Masons couldn't come in and hammer Elena, putting them in a bad spot.

Elena was counterwagon to Zach, but think about this for a minute: if the last two scum decided to mutual bus, whoever lived is likely to be in a good spot, no? So I'm having paranoia there.

Jae has been right about a lot of things, and was calling for your lynch before they died. Considering they were right about Zach AND Alisae, I would feel pretty comfortable sheeping the read on you that they had.

[Clumsy]

I have to consider everything. :/

[Clumsy]

Kuror and Elena, what about Gerry's play strikes you as suboptimal exactly? How exactly do you dismiss him as town because "He would have won a long time ago"?

[Clumsy]

So yeah as inspector rectified I will focus there and will be back here focused on 1 day tops.

Bear

with me.

Scum found, this man is a sloth, not a bear. GG EZ

[Clumsy]

Indeed. Waiting on Kuror0 and my own motivation to game solve.

[Clumsy]

Elena, it's either Kuror or Gerry from your perspective. What're you thinking?

[Clumsy]

Kuror0, which of these two do you feel more confident in?

[Clumsy]

I dunno, I just don't know if I would call Kuror0 scum after yesterday. Seemed like a very town response to everything. I was considering if scum would have bussed Zach or not. If not, the only one it could be is Kuror0. However, being first on and hard pushing a scum lynch could propel the last one into MyLo with a great standing... Look at Gerry. That's what has my paranoia buzzer going off, but at the same time, did scum NEED to bus? Scum!Gerry, if he put his vote on town, would have been putting that at L-1, and we would have needed the mason duo plus one other onto Zach for a lynch. That's the main thing that's bothering me about Scum!Gerry, it seems unnecessary.

[Clumsy]

Indeed.

[Clumsy]

Well I started to two day phases ago, but it's also PoE here as well.

[Clumsy]

I felt that Elena had a scummy day 2 days ago and Kuror had a towny day yesterday.

[Clumsy]

I've looked through some of it, I don't know if I would really call Elena's post a reaction at all.

Kuror/Elena, what do you make of this?

Spoiler:

gerry case:

Gerry as town is completely uninvolved with games. He hates playing town and loves playing scum:

Look through these ISOs in the night phase and you'll see why he's confscum here.

Town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=68870 - VT
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=69080 - VT?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=69351 - Doctor
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=68970 - VT
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=69209 - Town Backup (hydra with MariaR/SoniaNevermind, named Sondam)

Scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=69960 - maf
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=67506 - maf
http://emforummaf.prophpbb.com/search.p ... sf=msgonly - maf traitor
https://epicmafia.com/topic/80150?page=2&_pjax=%23posts - maf

All that said, there is one outlier that i can think of off the top of my head. He was a treestump with no reveal upon flip and roleplaying as Komaeda the whole game:
http://emforummaf.prophpbb.com/search.p ... r=gerryoat

I don't believe this is another outlier game. His defense was that it's multiball, but if you go back to his early game posting there was still more there before he "knew" it was mb (and no I don't believe that was a townslip, and Transcend didn't either, I think, he was likely buddying him to not get shot from the other team). You'll also note in one of those mafia games (Dream mafia) he defended his meta against me by saying it was maria's game so he was actually trying. Sounds similar to his defense that it's multiball so he's actually trying because it's new.

There's also the matter of his hard tr'ing Transcend (not sure if he hard tr Cloudkicker but I'll probably want to check this for follow-up if I live through the night) as he has experience with both of them from epicmafia and has played a decent amount of games with them here too. It's not impossible to misread your friends that badly as town but it's a little less likely imo.

After a gerry lynch you guys will probably have this in the bag. I'd personally be looking between Zach and Elena, with a leaning towards Zach. I'd probably want to look over 6287 if gerry is black scum, if he's white there'd be no need obviously, as anything more than 3 scum on each team is horribly unbalanced and a guaranteed town loss, and with mastin as a reviewer it wouldn't have gotten past review.

[Clumsy]

I'm going to do a quick look over votes made this game and decide today.

[Clumsy]

Alright, I think I've come to my own conclusion, but it's far from definitive for me. Elena, Gerry, can you each please provide the best case you can on one another? I think it's between you two.

[Clumsy]

Gerry, if you want to defend yourself, shut up and do it. Otherwise just stay quiet. You can give me your full case on Kuror if you want.

[Clumsy]

Ugh, I hate Lylo.

Well, let's get this over with I guess. My re-read had me at Elena scum.

VOTE: Elena

GG.

[Clumsy]

inb4 gerry was actually scum

[Clumsy]

Alright, level with me now that we have hammer. The suspense is killing me.

[Clumsy]

...

Fuck, was it Kuror0?

[Clumsy]

Alright, I think I've come to my own conclusion, but it's far from definitive for me. Elena, Gerry, can you each please provide the best case you can on one another? I think it's between you two.

I've looked through some of it, I don't know if I would really call Elena's post a reaction at all.

Kuror/Elena, what do you make of this?

Spoiler:

gerry case:

Gerry as town is completely uninvolved with games. He hates playing town and loves playing scum:

Look through these ISOs in the night phase and you'll see why he's confscum here.

Town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=68870 - VT
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=69080 - VT?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=69351 - Doctor
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=68970 - VT
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=69209 - Town Backup (hydra with MariaR/SoniaNevermind, named Sondam)

Scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=69960 - maf
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=67506 - maf
http://emforummaf.prophpbb.com/search.p ... sf=msgonly - maf traitor
https://epicmafia.com/topic/80150?page=2&_pjax=%23posts - maf

All that said, there is one outlier that i can think of off the top of my head. He was a treestump with no reveal upon flip and roleplaying as Komaeda the whole game:
http://emforummaf.prophpbb.com/search.p ... r=gerryoat

I don't believe this is another outlier game. His defense was that it's multiball, but if you go back to his early game posting there was still more there before he "knew" it was mb (and no I don't believe that was a townslip, and Transcend didn't either, I think, he was likely buddying him to not get shot from the other team). You'll also note in one of those mafia games (Dream mafia) he defended his meta against me by saying it was maria's game so he was actually trying. Sounds similar to his defense that it's multiball so he's actually trying because it's new.

There's also the matter of his hard tr'ing Transcend (not sure if he hard tr Cloudkicker but I'll probably want to check this for follow-up if I live through the night) as he has experience with both of them from epicmafia and has played a decent amount of games with them here too. It's not impossible to misread your friends that badly as town but it's a little less likely imo.

After a gerry lynch you guys will probably have this in the bag. I'd personally be looking between Zach and Elena, with a leaning towards Zach. I'd probably want to look over 6287 if gerry is black scum, if he's white there'd be no need obviously, as anything more than 3 scum on each team is horribly unbalanced and a guaranteed town loss, and with mastin as a reviewer it wouldn't have gotten past review.

T_T

[Clumsy]

Fair, I don't think he showed any inclination that way.

[Clumsy]

Gg all. I'm sorry Alisae. :(((

[Clumsy]

Yeah, thanks Scout! Was fun.

[Clumsy]

I've been wanting to play less and less mafia and mod more, but if you're running another game Scout, I might join in. :)

[Clumsy]

Masons with you would be great! :D

[Clumsy]

LMAO. I didn't know you read that game Scout! But that was beautiful 10/10