Mini 1875: Pine's Death Trap Post Game - Town win!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

/confirm

Hey guys

What's shaking?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Savage.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Didn't know it was that kind of party

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Does it matter?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'm so used to Pine as a player. Pine as a mod feels so weird.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

First?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Negan's bat!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hey Keyser! Didn't know you played Normals.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: RC


He should have had @ least 3 hard scumreads that he's pushed insanely strong by now.

This is a bit of a reach here. The game just officially started.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Are you being serious Lil Uzi?

Yes

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Matt

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Not convinced by Rauth so far. I want to see him upset an active player. Feels like he's trying to play a safe game. Once I see his teeth I may get a better look inside his soul.

Why would seeing him purposely upset active players make you feel better about his alignment?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

if i keep them to myself, how can i help town

By not helping scum.

how are my reads terrible? how do you know grendel is town?

Why are your reads good? How do you know Grendel's scum?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I have no idea what is happening but I guess it's RVS so I'll just vote someone.

VOTE: Akarin

Scummy post

No, your reply is the actually definition of scummy. Where's your vote? Where are the attempts to dig? Do you not care why he thinks Gerry is scum and RC is town?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

At least Rauth has more meat to chew on now...

Yep. I wish more people were talking because I think gerryoat/RC is SvT or TvS. Right now I lean towards RC being town and gerryoat being scum, but I'll read over the game again just to be sure before voting.

UNVOTE: Akarin, she'll get prodded soon anyways...

Are you usually this cautious? What's making you lean RC for town? I have a feeling I know why but I want to hear what you have to say first.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I just like having Gerry in the game he's entertaining

Not as entertaining as KainTepes!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Gerry is mighty scummy i admit

Anything else Trans? You're much less involved in this game than in any other game I've seen u in.

Why's that pinging you? Transcend doesn't strike me as one to prod dodge unless it's something IRL related.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hey mama, I'm all caught up!

I think there are at least two scum within Gerry/Jar/Matt/Vifam.

VOTE: Gerry

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Not convinced by Rauth so far. I want to see him upset an active player. Feels like he's trying to play a safe game. Once I see his teeth I may get a better look inside his soul.

Why would seeing him purposely upset active players make you feel better about his alignment?

Upset as in engage in an interaction that demands him to reason out a conflict of reads / ideas / beliefs. I want to see blood.

Not "upset" as in 'your breath stinks of penis'.

I just don't understand why you associate engaging with upset. I think him being himself has been enough so far.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I have no idea what is happening but I guess it's RVS so I'll just vote someone.

VOTE: Akarin

Scummy post

No, your reply is the actually definition of scummy. Where's your vote?

I pointed out his post was scummy. That doesn't mean I automatically vote him. I pointed out other scummy posts as well.

Where are the attempts to dig?

What else can I really say about that post? I explained to him why I thought it was scummy.

Do you not care why he thinks Gerry is scum and RC is town?

Sure I care.

Well my thing is, why? Just saying it's scummy without backing it up is pointless and arguably will help him in the long run if he's scum. He'll know that whatever he did, said, or how he said something isn't ok and possibly will be able to adjust and blend in better.

I really don't like last part of this reply. Does it sound sarcastic to anyone else?

I just don't understand why you associate engaging with upset. I think him being himself has been enough so far.

"Engaging" does not = "upsetting". But it is one part of interactions I like to look at.

Part of my concern I am sure you should be able to relate to. You personally asked Rautherdir: "Are you usually this cautious?".

There is one type of mafia playing style I have encountered that Rautherdir has exhibited. Thus, I want to drill down on what he actually is posting (does he believe any of it? is he willing to broadcast those beliefs to everyone? is he willing to cause conflict in order to push his scum-reads?).

"I think him being himself has been enough so far."

- it sounds like you currenty town-read Rautherdir so I'd expect for that to be your default position. Do you have a problem with me wanting more from Rautherdir in order to 'enhance' my read of him?

Yes I currently town read him and I think I do. I'm not completely sure yet because I haven't had a chance to mull it over deeply but from your original request, it seems like you want him to purposely go out of character.

Point accepted. Please continue.

I'll come back to your slot if you lynch town.

Huh?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Nvm 622 was scummy as fuck

Not scummy, it's me clearly saying how I will approach your playstyle.

Basically you're saying 'leave me alone let me do my own thing'. I respect that.

I accept I can't change the way you have been playing. If you're contributing to lynching scum you won't be an immediate concern of mine (but still wouldn't be a town read, as in the case of a Gerry scum flip).

But if you are lynching town and not giving the whys/who's/when/how's to what you're doing I want to revisit your slot with heightened scrutiny.

Why not ask him to show you what he's doing or show you how he does what he's doing so you can feel better at ease? You sound a bit reluctant to approach his play style this way.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Im not a PR I just know there is an angel watching over me that wont let me be mislynched today

Real.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@LUV

You were online and responding to other games earlier, but didn't even drop by to greet me.

Wheres the love LUV?

@Somebody with Previous experience with VIfam

Does Vifam make emotional appeals much as scum?

@RC

I think that Matt is town based off of yesterdays wagon construction (On me).

I was going to get to this game but honestly I just fell asleep.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Vifam probably isn't scum sadly.

--

VOTE: Matt

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I really don't like last part of this reply. Does it sound sarcastic to anyone else?

Hard to tell in text - if he had said "Suuuuuuure I care" then, yeah, sarcastic, if he had said "Sure I care" then, no. Can't tell without tonal inflections.

Vifam probably isn't scum sadly.

--

VOTE: Matt

Could you tell me whyI should sheep onto Matt and also why you didn't sheep onto Transcend?

I don't really do cases, just reasons:

His joking around with Gerry earlier felt forced.
His vote for Grendel also felt forced. It read to me like he sensed he needed to do a strong town motivated play at the time to discourage any suspicion.
I didn't like how he just sort of shrugged of the chance to get a better idea of RC's alignment who he claims he's wary of.
I don't like how he opened today, feels like he should be voting for RC or Keyser.

--

As to why I didn't sheep you on to Transcend is because I don't really have a read on your slot and from what I remember of D1, Transcend didn't come off as scummy.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

OP and the title of the thread aren't updated.

Pine slacking

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Vifam

I was part way through catching up when that stupid hammer came down. Just after reading about how Vifam didn't want to lynch either RC or Gerry.

My other scumread is Rautherdir.

At least Rauth has more meat to chew on now...

Yep. I wish more people were talking because I think gerryoat/RC is SvT or TvS. Right now I lean towards RC being town and gerryoat being scum, but I'll read over the game again just to be sure before voting.

UNVOTE: Akarin, she'll get prodded soon anyways...

This post

I don't really see the problem here. He decided his vote on you wasn't doing any good and wanted to be sure of his first impressions of both players. Seems reasonable considering the length and intensity of the back and forth between the two.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

It doesn't read like it was SvT. And I thought a lot of people were voting Gerry based on a townread on RC. I think scum were pushing that. And he didn't vote here, while pushing the narrative that there was scum involved.

Why are you acting like your opinion on the situation was the most commonly shared one?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I come in and vote Vifam.

Vifam argues with me for a bunch of posts about the one other read I have without talking about herself.

Vifam votes me over the other read.

This reeks of bull. What else was Vifam supposed to have said in regards to why he hammered Gerry? Why can't he focus and talk to you about two things at once?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don't really do cases, just reasons:

That's cool, I consider them the same thing

I don't like how he opened today, feels like he should be voting for RC or Keyser.

How come this? (I can understand your other points)

As to why I didn't sheep you on to Transcend is because I don't really have a read on your slot and from what I remember of D1, Transcend didn't come off as scummy.

Do you feel Transcend is town or null?

Wouldn't that just make him a bad/illogical player as opposed to scum?

Exclusive of alignment, it was an illogical progression of opinion-meditation-action. I.e his actions did not complement his perspective.

Correct me if I'm wrong - you created a town read off Vifam due to the play being so terrible as to be unwise for scum to do (which it was).
I would think that getting a scum read off of it is an equally valid opinion (play so terrible it is unwise for town to do - which it was).
At that point, if his logic here is empty, isn't yours equally empty?

Also, could you expand on why you logic Transcend as town? I understood your reasoning on RC and Vifam, but you offered none on Transcend.

Oh and as far as JarJar goes his push on RC is towniest thing I've seen so far on day 2. The tone was genuine, and all his points so far toward RC are valid concerns yet everyone is ignoring him.

I don't think it's fair to say that people are ignoring him. Two of his points are;

1. RC fake claims cop as scum.
2. RC's "fake" claim is countered by the Gerry flip.

I know I and at least one other person addressed #2 noting that it wasn't a direct counter claim in any way.
I know at least one person addressed #1 noting it is within RC's town meta to fakeclaim cop just as much as within his scum meta - making the play maybe bad, but not a good alignment tell.

What other points of JarJar's do you find good that people are ignoring?
What about the above equates to ignoring?
I'll agree that people aren't agreeing with him - is that what you meant to say? If so, what about his concerns do you find valid in the face of the counter arguments offered against it?

I felt he should be voting for one of those two based on his 683, 703, 767, 793, and 797. It sounds like he doesn't believe that RC is a PR at all or understands what motivation RC had to do what he was doing Day 1. It also sounds like he believes Keyser is fence sitting.

Transcend is null for me.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I have no idea what is happening but I guess it's RVS so I'll just vote someone.

VOTE: Akarin

Scummy post

No, your reply is the actually definition of scummy. Where's your vote?

I pointed out his post was scummy. That doesn't mean I automatically vote him. I pointed out other scummy posts as well.

Where are the attempts to dig?

What else can I really say about that post? I explained to him why I thought it was scummy.

Do you not care why he thinks Gerry is scum and RC is town?

Sure I care.

Well my thing is, why? Just saying it's scummy without backing it up is pointless and arguably will help him in the long run if he's scum. He'll know that whatever he did, said, or how he said something isn't ok and possibly will be able to adjust and blend in better.

I really don't like last part of this reply. Does it sound sarcastic to anyone else?

It's not pointless. I'm putting in on record that I found a post scummy. That's like normal mafia play.

And it's not sarcasm. I'm saying I care but didn't feel the need to post about it.

Why did you felt the need to put it on record?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Who's Annie?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Reads!

Transcend is scum.

Vifam is null/scum.

LUV is null/slight scum.

Akarin is null.

Keyser is null.

Matt is null.

I(Rautherdir) am not reading myself.

JJD is null.

Grendel is null/slight town.

CoopSheep is null/town.

RC is town PR.


Night Kill Analysis
I don't know about everyone else, but I personally thought Alisae was scum when Night 1 started. The only conclusion I can draw is that scum were trying to find and kill other town PRs.

Why are you scum reading Transcend?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don't really see the problem here. He decided his vote on you wasn't doing any good and wanted to be sure of his first impressions of both players. Seems reasonable considering the length and intensity of the back and forth between the two.

The problem is that the vote wasn't doing any good, but they just unvoted rather than voting anywhere. It wasn't doing

more

good being on no one, and I had done literally nothing at all to warrant any change. Committing to one stance or another would have been good, but fanning the flames with "this doesn't seem like town vs. town" but not committing to anything is pretty scummy.

Besides which, it really does look pretty town on town, and Vifam is both arguing that well it must have looked scum on town to a lot of people because Gerry got lynched, but at the same time, Vifam didn't suspect or want to lynch Gerry.

Isn't it fair for him to have been waiting on you to see if it could've done any good? It was never given the chance to really do anything since you were practically nonexistent Day 1.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Prod received

Will catch-up tonight, been a bit busy with other games.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hey Transcend fucking replace out.

you are not doing anything.

I guess it's unfair to request that since you might be scum.

but like if you're town I have very negative feelings.

It's not hard for Scum!Transcend to sit there and say that they're positive that I'm townreading them. Do something that scum can't fake.

People have told me that you're a good player but I frankly think people who can only play scum by refusing to provide information and hoping that the wagon never swings to them are poor players.

Go act powertown this game and lead someone like a collared sex slave in Rotterdam or smth.

This push is shit. You call for Transcend to start contributing but you sounded so fixated on your view of him already I highly doubt you would've dropped wanting to essentially policy lynch him no matter how hard he would've tried. Why didn't you attempt to see why Transcend had the thoughts he had on each player and engage him on each of those reads? I can see why he felt the way he did about Keyser for example and would've offered the small amount of meta knowledge I have on him.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

nancy replaces Transcend, effective immediately.

Welcome nancy! I've recently been told that you're really good at this game

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Matt: Earlier you mentioned that you've recently found RC unreadable and now you're saying you have no idea why people are town reading RC. Why does it seem like you're fence sitting?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Why Rauth?

He called you town/town PR as a fact. Zero paranoia or doubt.

I don't see the correlation.

OK people. If you have any respect for RCs play you can't townread him.

HE CLAIMED BP WITH ONE VOTE ON HIM.

Read that sentence a few times. He's not a noob people. He knows damn well that you just don't do that.


And that's not even taking into account the fact that he's admitted to fakeclaiming cop, hardpushed town on day 1, etc...

I've seen RC fake claim before as town and personally I have been quite impressed with how he does it. My issue with RC has been their sort of bullying of others for better play and whining. It almost feels like they think if they do it enough, people will just bend over backwards.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Keyser

- Town. Even if I didn't have meta w/ him, I'd say he's playing an incredibly pro-town game. Meta seals it. This is his town play.

Cooperative Sheep

- Town. Doesn't have that many posts but the ones that do are full of good content. Makes alot of good points that I agree w/ and is solidly scumhunting.

mattblackguy

- townlean. He had a good explaination for what I thought was scummy and he's pushing RC.

Nancy

- townlean. Her posts so far have been good enough to negate my bad feelings about transcend.

Lil Uzi Vert

- Null. Need more content. I've had trouble reading Uzi in the past and he hasn't posted nearly enough for me to get any type of real read

Grendel

- null slightly scummy. Grendel doesn't seem to say or do much. There's nothing overtly scummy but I get the impression he's being extra carefull w/ his posts.

Akarin

- slight scumlean. I feel like alot of her questions directed @ me are designed to get me to scumread Matt and/or townread RC. Agree w/ her vif and rauth reads though.

Rautherdir

- scum. Just playing the noob card way too hard. So many LAMIST posts.

Vifam

- Scum. Have already posted about how he tried to imply that one of RC/Gerry was scum and then backtracked. The derphammer is self-explanatorily bad.

RadiantCowbells

- Obvious Scum. Reasons already posted.

Could you talk a little more about Matt? I think he's been fence sitting on RC.

Also why are you feeling that way about Anakrin's questions? Why couldn't it be town trying to get you to see what is obvious to them and maybe others?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

RC, why did you decide to move your vote to Rautherdir when you did, rather than when you unvoted Transcend?

Does it matter? I feel like you're missing a bit of context here.

Whether or not she's town or not doesn't make her right.

I'm not going to be helpful to the town if I'm forced to play defense all the time. If I can't get some space you might as well just lynch me today because I'm not going to get much done at this rate.

You can defend yourself and scum hunt at the same time.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Don't tell me how I'm supposed to react to your crap.

This is scum flail.

You're just lashing out here in hopes that people will let up. I don't think any amount of pressure at this point is going to help discren your alignment.

VOTE: RC

[Lil Uzi Vert]

UNVOTE:

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Looking forward to it

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Town PRs tend to play more in the background on this site so I can see where Grendal's coming from.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Mod: I'm currently voting for RC

[Lil Uzi Vert]

You unvoted after you voted RC

I was messing with Pine

[Lil Uzi Vert]

On a serious note, I think scum is in Jar, Matt, Sheep, and Vifam. I can't seem to get a solid read on Akarin.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I think JJD is town too I forgot about him

Why are you town reading Jar? Is it for his recent tunneling? If so, what are your thoughts on RC's take on that?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Don't tell me how I'm supposed to react to your crap.

This is scum flail.

You're just lashing out here in hopes that people will let up. I don't think any amount of pressure at this point is going to help discren your alignment.

VOTE: RC

This is a really sketchy way to push a narrative.

I was just saying how I feel. Why do you feel like I'm not telling the full story?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Reading through LUV's 50 post ISO now... on phone so excuse the poor presentation.

VOTE: RC


He should have had @ least 3 hard scumreads that he's pushed insanely strong by now.

This is a bit of a reach here. The game just officially started.

Are you being serious Lil Uzi?

Yes

At the time this felt to me like LUV was giving JarJar a scum read for no reason. "Reach"? JarJar was obviously being sarcastic.

Honestly didn't read that way to me.

if i keep them to myself, how can i help town

By not helping scum.

how are my reads terrible? how do you know grendel is town?

Why are your reads good? How do you know Grendel's scum?

Are these questions helping Gerry help LUV. No.

I have no idea what is happening but I guess it's RVS so I'll just vote someone.

VOTE: Akarin

Scummy post

No, your reply is the actually definition of scummy. Where's your vote? Where are the attempts to dig? Do you not care why he thinks Gerry is scum and RC is town?

More of LUV scum reading hard on JarJar. Let's see the development of LUV vs JarJar through the game. No vote yet!

Why are you assuming his answers would've helped me? Both of those questions were asked to help me understand why he was feeling very confident about his reads and if his reasoning for being so confident is genuine.

Hey mama, I'm all caught up!

I think there are at least two scum within Gerry/Jar/Matt/Vifam.

VOTE: Gerry

Oh no, LUV votes my boyfriend instead. I think his vote should have been on JarJar here.

Not convinced by Rauth so far. I want to see him upset an active player. Feels like he's trying to play a safe game. Once I see his teeth I may get a better look inside his soul.

Why would seeing him purposely upset active players make you feel better about his alignment?

Upset as in engage in an interaction that demands him to reason out a conflict of reads / ideas / beliefs. I want to see blood.

Not "upset" as in 'your breath stinks of penis'.

I just don't understand why you associate engaging with upset. I think him being himself has been enough so far.

I don't know why LUV was grilling me on this. I had a reason of concern on Rauth. (Rauth has just revealed he was being closed and scummy on purpose so it explains his behaviour perfectly now). I don't know why LUV had to step in and defend Rauth.

I voted Gerry because I felt he was throwing around a lot of baseless suspicion out of nowhere early on in the game. Specifically him calling out Ali for being too defensive and then trying to link him to Grendel. I've played a few games with Gerry and he always either says RVS/the start of the game is pointless or he just whines about it and then doesn't return to the game until about 15 or 20 pages later. I found it a bit odd that he was spamming it up in early when he usually posts fluff along with attempts to game solve when the game has significantly gotten out of that stage.

The worst of it obviously was when he accused RC of trying to drag the game back into RVS because of the naked vote RC casted on Rauth. My read as a result only worsen as the back and forth between him and RC just seemed like a combination of taunting and provoking which I did not see the town motivation at all for.

As for Rauth, the way you phrased your request just seemed weird. I didn't see an issue with his play early on so I was wondering why you were sort of forcing him to come out of his shell rather than letting things develop more and seeing if and how he reacts.

I have no idea what is happening but I guess it's RVS so I'll just vote someone.

VOTE: Akarin

Scummy post

No, your reply is the actually definition of scummy. Where's your vote?

I pointed out his post was scummy. That doesn't mean I automatically vote him. I pointed out other scummy posts as well.

Where are the attempts to dig?

What else can I really say about that post? I explained to him why I thought it was scummy.

Do you not care why he thinks Gerry is scum and RC is town?

Sure I care.

Well my thing is, why? Just saying it's scummy without backing it up is pointless and arguably will help him in the long run if he's scum. He'll know that whatever he did, said, or how he said something isn't ok and possibly will be able to adjust and blend in better.

I really don't like last part of this reply. Does it sound sarcastic to anyone else?

I just don't understand why you associate engaging with upset. I think him being himself has been enough so far.

"Engaging" does not = "upsetting". But it is one part of interactions I like to look at.

Part of my concern I am sure you should be able to relate to. You personally asked Rautherdir: "Are you usually this cautious?".

There is one type of mafia playing style I have encountered that Rautherdir has exhibited. Thus, I want to drill down on what he actually is posting (does he believe any of it? is he willing to broadcast those beliefs to everyone? is he willing to cause conflict in order to push his scum-reads?).

"I think him being himself has been enough so far."

- it sounds like you currenty town-read Rautherdir so I'd expect for that to be your default position. Do you have a problem with me wanting more from Rautherdir in order to 'enhance' my read of him?

Yes I currently town read him and I think I do. I'm not completely sure yet because I haven't had a chance to mull it over deeply but from your original request, it seems like you want him to purposely go out of character.

Point accepted. Please continue.

I'll come back to your slot if you lynch town.

Huh?

For the love of God get your vote on JarJar, you've presented the biggest case on him but not followed through with a vote.

More defending of Rauth. Why was I not allowed to question his suspicious behaviour? He wasn't confirmed town.

I wasn't saying you weren't allowed, I just didn't see what you were seeing and was telling you how I felt.

On a serious note, I think scum is in Jar, Matt, Sheep, and Vifam. I can't seem to get a solid read on Akarin.

I think JJD is town too I forgot about him

Why are you town reading Jar? Is it for his recent tunneling? If so, what are your thoughts on RC's take on that?

Again... on Day 2..."I think scum is in Jar", "why are you town reading Jar?"

You haven't shown you believe it yet. Where's your vote right now... it was on RC...

I'm unsure right now and that's mainly because of a combination of my head still spinning from the Gerry flip and what I've learned about Jar over the night phase. nancy is also a strong TR of mine and I feel like I should just sheep her for now but I can't follow her on Grendal.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Vifam probably isn't scum sadly.

--

VOTE: Matt

I really don't like last part of this reply. Does it sound sarcastic to anyone else?

Hard to tell in text - if he had said "Suuuuuuure I care" then, yeah, sarcastic, if he had said "Sure I care" then, no. Can't tell without tonal inflections.

Vifam probably isn't scum sadly.

--

VOTE: Matt

Could you tell me whyI should sheep onto Matt and also why you didn't sheep onto Transcend?

I don't really do cases, just reasons:

His joking around with Gerry earlier felt forced.
His vote for Grendel also felt forced. It read to me like he sensed he needed to do a strong town motivated play at the time to discourage any suspicion.
I didn't like how he just sort of shrugged of the chance to get a better idea of RC's alignment who he claims he's wary of.
I don't like how he opened today, feels like he should be voting for RC or Keyser.

--

As to why I didn't sheep you on to Transcend is because I don't really have a read on your slot and from what I remember of D1, Transcend didn't come off as scummy.

Votes Matt early doors.


Why jump off this wagon where all your reasons sound like you've convinced yourself of Matt = scum?

I don't know how to take Matt sort of ignoring me. I think it might be town who doesn't see any good in arguing with a super strong scum read.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@nancy: Could you attempt to sell us on Grendal?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: JJD

I'm really feeling nancy for town and even with what I learned, your play here just seems survivalistic.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I didn't even realize. Looking back I only counted 3 votes.

Read my responses to Keyser.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don't understand why you want to lynch me RC.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

On a serious note, I think scum is in Jar, Matt, Sheep, and Vifam. I can't seem to get a solid read on Akarin.

Please give me a bulletpoint summary on:

Matt and Sheep

Of their ISO or my reasoning for scum reading them?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@RC: That is the same kind of reasoning and push that forced Rauth to claim. I know I haven't been active but I don't see why you're saying I've been anti-town.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Essentially over what Rauth admitted was him intentionally being scummy, which is anti-town.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don't even understand what you're saying right now.

All I'm saying is that you're basically saying inactivity and anti-town means scum. Due to the result of such a belief and your influence in general on this site, it forces unwarranted claims. I wouldn't be happy to claim if I was ran up solely off of Keyser's reasoning but it's a lot better than being ran up for being inactive and someone claiming I've been anti-town.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

All you're saying is that I've been anti-town and at this point all I can assume you're referring to is my activity. If so, could you look at how you pushed Transcend and what made him replace out. I feel like you're stuck in a tunnel that's similar to that one.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Keyser: I think I already went over why I'm scum reading Matt but if I haven't I'll do so again. I found a lot of his play early on forced and felt like he was fence sitting. He's also recently been calling for my head but I don't think he's made any attempt to sort me or even has said why he's scum reading me.

I am scum reading Sheep mainly because of his push on the Transcend slot and PoE.

I didn't get why he was so focused on Transcend during D2 and it sort of pinged me because nothing really stood out to me from Transcend's play. When I looked back at their interactions on D1, all I saw was him explaining to Transcend in a sort of condescending tone about why there was a wagon on Grendel and him confirming who he is to Transcend. The latter came off more snobbish and patronizing then the former. It read like he was projecting a level of importance that he felt he rightfully earned at that point of the game which was very odd. This lead me to believe throughout my reread that there will be various play style and personality clashes between the two and that a lot of what they'll be scum reading each other for will be overblown.

At the start of D2, he voted Transcend and then I believe states he voted for him because of effort and his suspect voting pattern on D1. Effort is NAI. The second point however is a valid point but if you take a look back on D1, I believe Transcend voted for at least 4-5 different people before voting for Gerry according to my notes. What Sheep fails to acknowledge is that lot of those votes where in RVS and that scum would prefer not to bring that much attention themselves by voting like it's going out of style.

Sheep later on questions Transcend about his take on the Gerry and Grendel's wagons but does it in such a way that comes off like he's trying to show others that Transcend is stating his theories as fact. Now I have no idea why Transcend really didn't answer these questions from Sheep but his attitude seemed carefree and just genuine. I think scum would be more alert, more on guard, and try to look as pro-town as possible. Transcend did the exact opposite and while it could've been just an act, I find the simplest explanation always the most probable.

Here we are now and he's pushing nancy over her claiming immediately on replacement and only looking at the vote counts. Which is weird but doesn't make her scum. The latter however is a very bad angle to push in my opinion. Various players on this site put a lot of stock into VCA and nancy may just be one of them. Wouldn't surprise me to be honest since I've heard a lot of good things about her play. He's essentially scum reading her for play style rather than looking for the motivation of her actions.

--

@Mod: I'll be v/LA till the 16th. Valentines Day.

V/LA noted

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I still think Grendel is a scumfuck and your read there is wrong though.

I really want to follow you on this but I can't seem to get there. What are you seeing that the rest of us aren't?

I'm town but whatever. If JJD flips town, then once I flip town after I get lynched tomorrow lynch Matt, Sheep, Nancy

uzi is forever town.

VOTE: JarJarDrinks

I said you'd be PLed if you did this. you did it. I think you're scum but even if you didn't I said I'd lynch you for this and I'm going to.

I don't see anything policy lynch worthy here.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Spoiler:

Alright so here's where we're at with the final 2 scum.

Rauth,RC,Keyser,Grendel,Akarin are all town. Don't need to worry here.

There has to be 1 or 2 scum that bussed Jar, because only people that didnt vote him was me(town), Rc(town), Kesyer(town), and Sheep(???)

[LYNCH ACHIEVED] JarJarDrinks - Akarin(town), Grendel(town), Lil Uzi Vert(???), nancy(???), Rautherdir(town), Fro99er(???)

This leaves Lil Uzi Vert, nancy, and Frogger as the possible bussers.



Possible scumteams(in no particular order):

(1){JarJar,LUV,Frogger}
(2){JarJar,Nancy,Frogger}
(3){Jarjar,Sheep,Frogger}
(4){Jarjar,Sheep,LUV}
(5){Jarjar,Sheep,Nancy}
(6){Jarjar,LUV,Nancy}

(1) - I think is the most likely team
(2) - It's possible that Nancy bussed JarJar, and flipped on her reads after Rauth cleared RC, but I don't think that's too likely with how the Transcend wagon shaped out. It would mean both Vifam, and Jar were bussing Transcend for barely anything more than policy reasons. Transcend's lynch was easily avoidable given how little of a case was given on him, so I don't think they'd go with it that easily. Probably least likely team.
(3) - Someone else can go until more detail about this as a possibility. Probably second most likely team
(4) - Idk what to say about this one. Maybe someone else can give some input if they think this is likely.
(5) - For the same reason I think (2) is unlikely I think this one is unlikely.
(6) - This one would be a weird team. Idk the liklihood of this being the team.

Actually now that I think about it more it doesn't look like Nancy would fit well in any team. She's probably not scum.

Why Frogger is scum, and should be lynched today:

1. His entrance of the game reads like a super hard bus on JarJar to try and gain towncred
2. He scumread on ne was super weak and nongenuine but tried to push it off as truth. Seriously look at his reasons for scumreading me yesterday. Said I was scum for scumreading Jar for a weak reason, and then townreading him day 2, but Vifam(his slot) did the same exact thing. Says I'm scum because I didn't want to policy lynch transcend and announced he was at L-1. Then misrepresented my reason for not hammering Transcend (he said it was only because my scumreads were on the wagon, but ignorned the fact that I didn't want to policy lynch). Says I'm confirmed scum because he doesn't like my reads post.
3. After his back and forth with Jar he backed off of Jar, and started pushing me even though there was nothing that Jar said that warranted him to back off of him. He then pushed me, and tried to get others to push me because he knew it would be better to get a mislynch on me first before lynching Jar day 3.

VOTE: Frog

Good shit RC. Keep pushing me Frog. I wanna see how it's going to work out for you.

Why did you bring up Frog's predecessor? Vifam's actions should not have an effect on how Frog reads on you.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Bluntly I don't like you this game. I don't trust at all how you took the wagon that was my brainchild and went ballistic pushing it and and trying to act like it was your own.
It feels like an attempt to jack towncred from the legwork that I and others pulled and I don't at all understand how you were so certain in your scumread on the slot to the point that you basically said PL me if this is town.
It feels ridiculously exaggerated, it feels like a bus, it feels like you're scum, and I don't fucking like your predecessor's associatives with flipped scum.

So here are your choices. You stop trying to be town leader and pushing wagons like a chicken with your head cut off or I lynch you today and ignore your reads tomorrow.

I'm not telling you to not push your reads but when you're literally bitching about games dragging to deadline and rushing day phases you need to shut the fuck up.

Sounds like you're making things personal and I don't understand why. You're practically confirmed town, work with us.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Matt

Still want this today after doing a reread.

I don't get the scum reads on Frog considering how strongly town read his predecessor was by Keyser. I don't think Frog's intentions when he replaced in was to attempt to bus or bus for town credit. He was in the process of catching up and read something that didn't look like something town!Jar would say and felt compelled to solely just read his ISO before catching up. If you carefully reread the interactions between him and Jar, you would see it's clearly SvT.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Uzi who do you think is scum? You're conftown in my book

Matt and Sheep.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I am not trying to make things personal and I don't understand how you are pushing that reasoning LUV.
I don't like Fro99er in this game for alignment indicative reasons. I think that he's scum who brazenly bussed his buddy and trying to push quicklynches to get away with it.
I need time and space to think and I am not going to get that when he's either deciding that he's solved the game or scum trying to act like that to pile on a bunch of mislynches and shrug his shoulders at it.

I don't have an issue or beef with Fro99er in general I just don't like what his slots doing and I want it to stop so I can get stuff done.

If you interpret 'I don't like you this game' as I don't like him as a person then sure I see how it's personal. But I am referring to strictly game related stuff.

I'm not pushing you. I was concerned that you might've had some vendetta against Frog as well as suffering from withdrawal. I noticed that you like to lead towns and it seems like the way you were tuned out yesterday has resulted in the lashing out we're seeing today. I understand that you're paranoid but it looks like it's starting to eat you alive and I'm not too fond of you potentially self destructing after we just caught scum. I think you need to take a step back, reread the interactions between Frog and Jar and my interactions with Keyser in order to come back with a fresh and open mind.

Also as I said eaelier, I explained why I voted for Gerry over Jar. I was asking nancy about Grendel because not only was she a town read of mine, I trusted her the most. I found Jar's play very survivalist because it felt like he was just throwing shit around in hopes town would take a liking to one of things he was spitting and cut him some slack for a while.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Pine to the rescue!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@nancy: Sheep's entire push on your slot is why you're still my strongest town read.

It looks like he couldn't let the satisfaction of lynching Transcend go and is now knows he is in deep shit.

As for MBG, it seems like he is just pushing Frog so hard because of how strongly RC's been on his side. With RC being practically confirmed town, piggybacking off of him seems like it's worth the gambit.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@nancy: Sheep's entire push on your slot is why you're still my strongest town read.

It looks like he couldn't let the satisfaction of lynching Transcend go and now knows he is in deep shit.

As for MBG, it seems like he is just pushing Frog so hard because of how strongly RC's been on his side. With RC being practically confirmed town, piggybacking off of him seems like it's worth the gambit.

EBWOP.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Prod received.

I need to stop getting so focused on one or two games when I'm in like 10. Will catch-up tomorrow.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

So LUV you think it's {mbg, Sheep}?

Yes.

Whatever, I'll just claim. I'm town Jailkeeper. I jailed Rauth obviously. Now can we lynch scum today?

I'm not buying this. Gambling on getting a successful investigation result would've been a lot more valuable because it narrows down the lynch pool either way. The only reason to jail someone is to prevent a kill or to protect a town read who you strongly believe isn't a PR and has really good deduction skills.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I wasn't going to vote you. Anyway please answer Fro99er's questions.

Didn't seem that way when you were sheeping everything RC did.

I jailed Keyser night 1, because I felt like he had a decent chance to be killed, and would be a decent person to keep alive.

I don't buy this at all either. Not after how D1 ended and the way he acted during the Gerry wagon. You also came in suspecting him for not having voted out of RVS at the start of D2.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Nancy

I believe this is the right lynch today.

Basically anyone could be.

What? Where were trying to go with this?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Frogger - you have as your lynch pool Matt --> me if Matt flips scum, but Matt --> Keyser if Matt flips town. How does town Matt make me more town?

@Nancy - what goalposts did I move in scumreading you? That's BS.

@Keyser - literally almosthalf the posts I make include me stating my top scumspects, and other players are complaining that I'm vote parking - I think it is super clear who i want lynched at any given moment.

I think we should mass claim, quite frankly. I think this somuch I'm just going to start popcorning, and to hell with anyone who disagrees.

Claim: VT
Popcorn - Nancy

Unless anyone seriously has an issue with this considering the claims on the table, let's lock in.

I understand Frogg's issue with Matt's stated actions, but can see how Matt could do what he said he did as town - it's basically my reason the the abrupt massclaim demand, if we get no other PR claims then I think Matt is actually not a lynch I support today, if we get even one other then I'd vote park him until he was lynched.
I agree with whoever said Nancy felt like she was egging on Frogger/RC - the only thing I've liked about her slot posting is pointing out how the team du jour of me, Matt, Jar requires bad play - this is something I (duh) agree with, but I actually don't think there's a lot of evidence to support the stance, so find it iffy she's advancing it as an idea.
I agree with the case for Akarin town. I wouldn't help that lynch at all. I won't help lynch Frogg, that is dumb. I have my lynch pool as Grendel, LUV, and Nancy in no particular order I can describe.

Why do you feel mass claiming is our best course to victory? We are still in good shape and I find it hard to believe if you're town that you don't see that.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Im not a PR I just know there is an angel watching over me that wont let me be mislynched today

Real.

This bothers me a lot b/c I thought for sure that when Frogger said that his lynch would clear LUV that the two had some funky role like Oracle that would clear another player post death. Or if not that they were neighbors.

It just seems like somebody would make a post like this to validate another player's claim later for roles that involve multiple ppl.

Any case I've been itching over that since the mutual vt claim, so I decided to bring it up.

Well mainly becasue not only do I like listening and working with strong town reads of mine, I haven't gotten around to properly reevaluating your slot yet. I feel we're close but I want to be sure.

Keyser LUV is clearly never going to post anything, let's just kill him.

nancy..

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Sheep and MBG are scum

MBG claimed jailkeeper
RC claimed BP
Gerry was lynched as cop D1
Rauth is backup cop who has an innocent on RC

Jar Jar got lynched D2 as scum goon

I'm VT, Sheep is VT, Nancy is VT. Might be a couple other VTs i'm missing.

I strongly think Uzi is town.

Using this to form a town bloc and list off some of claims (these are for my notes)

Rautherdir - Universal backup
RadiantCowbells - Bulletproof. Confirmed innocent by cop
mattblackguy - Jailkeeper

Keyser Söze
Fro99er

nancy

Grendel
ThinkBig
Lil Uzi Vert
Cooperative Sheep

I am going through the vote count for a VCA. For now, I'm treating rauth and MBG as confirmed town. I have a fairly strong TR on KS and Fro99er. I'm 75% confident that nancy is town (see above). I'm now looking through the rest of the players.

Rauth and RC for sure. Not MBG.

I'm not a fan of a town block with two scum still left, as they can easily slip and blend in.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@LUV - you're the second person who said that to me and my answer still holds, how many unclaimed town PRs do you exactly fear us outing at this stage? A massclaim aids town - scum already have ample info regardless of if all the claims are true, and a massclaim helps town figure out if claims are false. If you're town I'm not sure how you (and...Keyser?) don't get this.

@RC - not much to flesh out, I don't find him particularly townish like so many others seem to (for reasons they don't really explain and that I don't get), and he's not active enough or responsive enough (nor do I have the time availability) to particularly push for tells in a way I would find telling. I'd lynch him before a bulk of the game, but I'd lynch him after Nancy or Grendel because I can actually describe a case on them beyond 'meh, he might be scum'. I'd lynch him after Matt if Matt was counterclaimed (depending on counterclaim source - if it was Nancy or Grendel, natch). I think anyone who says bmore about him is using meta and/or deluding themselves on the viability of info available.

I think you're underestimating the amount of knowledge that can be gained from a mass claim this early. I think you're also underestimating the skill level of the scum team. Wanting everyone to mass claim this early is usually anti-town in my experience.

nancy..

Where have you been!?!? I don't understand why you're buddying me so hard! Like your TR of me doesn't even make sense!

I've been a disappointment to our wonderful mod Pine here. That's what've been. I'm here now though and don't plan to be getting another prod anytime soon

I'm not buddying you. Why do you think I am and what don't you get about my town read on you? I think the pushes on your slot weren't town motivated. You've been very transparent and seem to be constantly reevaluating in a way that shows an interest I highly doubt scum can fake for this long.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I think everyone is just way too afraid of being wrong. At the end of the day nancy you gotta remember that mafia is just a game.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I can get down with that but I'd prefer MBG to be honest.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

not lynching mbg at this time

Why? If we keep this up, we're looking at a no lynch.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

This makes no sense.

Why are we mass claiming?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'm a Town Motion Dectector. I targeted Jar N1 and I targeted Anakrin's slot N2.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Why is it bull?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I have no idea lol

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'm a Town Motion Dectector. I targeted Jar N1 and I targeted Anakrin's slot N2.

Did you see anything N1 or N2?

Both didn't perform an action or have one performed on them. That's why I initially doubted my read on Jar going into D2.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah like RC should know that lol I don't know what's going on.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

By a player TB.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

MBG is the obvious scum RC. It's either that or the meta has changed where town just gets a whole bunch of PRs.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

So who's scum then RC?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don't know much about setup speculation but I'm scum reading MBG because the way he claim to use his role does not make sense if you consider how Keyser acted towards the end of D1 and how he treated him at the beginning of D2. You can debate on protecting the cop but targeting Keyser doesn't make sense.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Sheep.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I targeted Anakrin over Sheep because she was hardly suspected at all and I had no read on the slot. My scum read on Sheep is fairly weak because half of it is PoE. Targeting you would not have told me anything new, it would've only reinforced my belief that you are scum.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I didn't like that post either mostly because you felt the need to tell us you were gonna vote someone in RVS, which feels like a newbscum or newbtown thing, I haven't really figured it out yet

Let me just put it this way: This is my second game. The only game I have played so far besides this game was a Newbie which Grendel was in.

This would be some awfully sick newbie gambit to fakeclaim Backup Cop

Or an even sicker gambit to pretend to be a newbie without knowing ahead of time that there would be the possibility to pull off this gambit

It takes having some big balls to even think and plan out something like that. He doesn't strike me as a big risk taker so I highly doubt he's gambiting.

RC is just letting paranoia eat him alive again.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Further "Replace Out" requests will not be retractable. I am not a fan of this practice, and my tolerance for it is spent. Setting up and running a game requires a great deal of volunteer effort for which there is little reward, and finding replacements is a pain. I would appreciate that effort not being treated with flippancy.

At work now, will get a VC up when I get home.

Pine's mad

[Lil Uzi Vert]

What are the pros of a No Lynch here?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

The problem is that scum can opt to no kill and leave us in the same position we're in now.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

The problem is that scum can opt to no kill and leave us in the same position we're in now.

Do you think scum wouldn't target any of the town PR's?

Honestly have no idea.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Keyser, you're asking questions that I think you know I don't have the answer too.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Keyser, you're asking questions that I think you know I don't have the answer to.

EBWOP.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

MBG is the obvious scum RC. It's either that or the meta has changed where town just gets a whole bunch of PRs.

Please tell me more about this.

"Obvious scum" via meta analysis.

I've never played with Matt prior to this. I find him obvious scum for the reasons I stated before and because I don't buy his jail keeper claim.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Keyser: I'm saying I don't have an answer because I don't have enough experience with this player list. I'm not sure what each individual would do in this position as scum. I'm going to lean that they wouldn't though.

@Matt: I replaced out so it wasn't a completed game. I also don't understand how you expect me to remember your meta in a game I replaced out of on Day 1 because of disinterest.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Prod received!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Why haven't we lynched MBG yet?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

GG. Sorry for my shit play everyone.

Fake claim was suppose to get Matt lynched and Anakrin to LYLO