Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]

[Kop]

VOTE: Aubrey

You burnt me once, you shall not do that again.

[Kop]

I've always wondered why people actually pick the people they do vote at the start of the game. I don't actually believe anyone ever goes to random.org or rolls a dice or something like that.

It is my understanding that that is frowned upon.

That much he said that twice.

[Kop]

Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.

What do you think of that post?

[Kop]

This is MafiaScum. Vote away. If you're not voting, you'll likely be viewed as hesitant scum.

I don't care. I vote when i actually am fairly certain someone is scum. If people wanna paint it as hesitant scum then they do. ^^
I see votes as "i am trying to lynch this person i think is mafia", not as "i voted for random person" or "reaction test" or whatever... It just is confusing imo. Keep it simple, that's what i like to do regarding votes. I believe that way scum have no outs from their votes, as if you vote you only vote for one reason and one reason only and you can never say "well i actually didn't think that guy was scum after all at the time".

There are no certainties of who is scum unless we have guilty or a scum claim. Votes on a wagon of someone you suspect gets far more answers than just sitting on your hands until you find someone who's willing, to put there hands up and say "hey I'm scum." Or even starting up a voting process on one of your top suspects.

[Kop]

This is MafiaScum. Vote away. If you're not voting, you'll likely be viewed as hesitant scum.

I don't care. I vote when i actually am fairly certain someone is scum. If people wanna paint it as hesitant scum then they do. ^^
I see votes as "i am trying to lynch this person i think is mafia", not as "i voted for random person" or "reaction test" or whatever... It just is confusing imo. Keep it simple, that's what i like to do regarding votes. I believe that way scum have no outs from their votes, as if you vote you only vote for one reason and one reason only and you can never say "well i actually didn't think that guy was scum after all at the time".

There are no certainties of who is scum unless we have guilty or a scum claim. Votes on a wagon of someone you suspect gets far more answers than just sitting on your hands until you find someone who's willing, to put there hands up and say "hey I'm scum." Or even starting up a voting process on one of your top suspects.

Well are you voting for a person you actually think is mafia? If you are, forgive me but remind me of your case since i can't remember any. Voting for someone without thinking they actually are scum does not amke any sense now does it?

It was a RVS vote, it had zero meaning to it.

I just haven't removed it yet.

UNVOTE: Aubrey

Fitz looks townie to me. This scares me, because I townread him for playing exactly the same last game. He was scum.

Also, there's nobody here who isn't a plausible wagonee, so literally any vote could be seen that way.

If you're referring to my jumpy voting, I do that at the beginning of every game. I can provide references if you wish. I find it helpful to know how people respond when I vote for them.

Pedit: Okay, then. That's been the case in the past sometimes, now that I think about it. He'll need to get involved soon to avoid the prod anyway.

VOTE: havingfitz

Your vote doesn't make any sense. Why would you say he looks townie, but then vote for him a few posts after. I understand you said that he was like that in the previous game but turned out to be scum, so you have paranoia that it could be another turn out like that, but is that the only reason your suspecting him?

Because in reality, your vote doesn't have a case or is backed up with any questions towards fitz to answer too. It feels to me that you were questioned about your previous vote on a needless slot right now, to someone that could appear needing pressure. And that is backed up by you asking Aubrey for her thoughts on Fitz, as if your trying to push Aubrey into Fitz direction.

[Kop]

I think you meant to use creatures name.

Ah yeah my bad, thought he was aiming for you.

[Kop]

Look at that buddying.

[Kop]

Look at that crap. You know I didn't buddy in our last game as scum.

Last game is a indicator, something I'd use in this game to monitor your gamestyle, but I won't use it as concrete evidence to say this game is the same.

[Kop]

Look at that crap. You know I didn't buddy in our last game as scum.

Last game is a indicator, something I'd use in this game to monitor your gamestyle, but I won't use it as concrete evidence to say this game is the same.

Nah.

[Kop]

Actually. Kop why did you single out Doom for voting Fitz and not Creature when they both said Fitz was town to them?

He's must have voted as I was reading through and typing up that quote. Never seen the vote until you've pointed it out.

Creature and doom you need to explain why your pressuring a player you've claimed to be town. It's not sitting right with me because in the time I've been playing mafia I wouldn't be pressuring someone who I think can be town.

[Kop]

Hi, sorry, I know I said I was going to post more and then I disappeared. Last night and this morning got really busy so I didnt have time to participate. I'm free all weekend so I'll be on way more.

I think OoO and rels are town. I'm leaning towards creature being town as well.

I know it's scummy to not post or post sporadically, but I'm here now and I'll be here all weekend

Can you specify why you think they are town? Because if you have read through you'd have at least a few scum reads along with your town. It shouldn't take someone to prod you to find out where you are in terms of who you suspect.

[Kop]

I do agree with your comment about the night actions towards doom though.

[Kop]

hapahauli isn't showing his potential.

What potential are you looking for? Have you participated with hap?

[Kop]

I don't really like giant walls because scum sometimes use that to scare off potential suspects.

[Kop]

Not being able to read someone simply because they are hard to read doest make them scum.

[Kop]

lol, fine Kid. Let's get on with it. Do you think I'm scum and was budding Creature as Kop suggested? If the answer is yes, bring it. If the answer is no, then move on and get over the meta crap.

I don't have any massively strong feelings on you one way or the other - if pushed I'd lean town simply because scum could be coasting through this day very happily without doing much at all at this point, and you're doing quite the opposite. I just dislike the meta comments and wanted to make that clear in a sufficiently wavy manner, as I am reliably informed the kids say these days.

Cool. We understood your distaste for meta the first time. It will get old very quickly if you complain every single time someone uses meta though. Furthermore there is a correct way to use meta and a wrong way to use meta. That is a conversation for another time though, but long story short; one should use meta to guide oneself into watching someone, but not use it in a absolute manner what-so-ever.

Now Let me talk to you a little bit about my post, a post you called basically called a waste of time. 1. That post really wasn't a defense post against Kop's claim intended for you all to get some meaning out of exactly. It was directed at Kop, and Kop alone. 2. Kop and I just ended a game last week, in which I won as scum, while Kop was put into a Kingmaker decision at LYLO between myself and a good ol boy named Hawk. There was no clear answer in the finale, so Kop basically analyzed our plays pretty damn painfully. He probably knows my scum play better than anybody else right now (especially in this game), only for him to accuse me of something I didn't, nor do I really ever do, as scum? Naturally that is going to set off a warning alarm in my head, and Kop should know that based on my

waste

of a comment. <-- That was the intention behind that post. Kop is still pinging the shit outa me, but I can't articulate a strong case against him. That is due in part by meta probably, but I have yet to decide if he is a strong scum candidate. <-- remember me saying Meta should be used as a guide and not a absolute? For example, I don't remember him utilizing these short bursts of assaults at all. In fact, it comes across as if he is just shooting randomly to see if a fire will start somewhere. Again, it feels as if someone is scooping out a place to land their vote once a wagon is generated.

Now, please stop wasting my time complaining about meta in general (unless it has a valid point) and please start pushing ppl and locating scum as I'm attempting to do so.

--

Pre edit: Doom, shut it. Unless of course you want to actually follow up on Kop's accusation against me.

That comment about buddying was meant in jest, from our little back and forth, I'm reading you as town, because your posts seem a bit more thought out and there is more frustration behind your words. In the game we just finished, you seemed more composed as scum.

[Kop]

Because he townreads me for playing differently than I played previously as scum. still in disagreement.

Well to be totally honest, your game this time round is different to what I seen from the last game we played. You just need to look at the difference in tone, and composure compared to the last one.

Actually there is one thing that bothers me about Kop now that i read his filter again.

Kop do you want to clarify the following statement you gave me at early on in the game:

There are no certainties of who is scum unless we have guilty or a scum claim. Votes on a wagon of someone you suspect gets far more answers than just sitting on your hands until you find someone who's willing, to put there hands up and say "hey I'm scum." Or even starting up a voting process on one of your top suspects.

Now if you believe what you originally wrote in the quote above, how come is it so that your vote hasn't EVER been on anyone in this game except for RVS?

I believe in that statement that I wrote, my vote hasn't been on anyone else other than RVS because I really need to catch up, and I've been lacking on time past few days, However, I am getting up to some free time then I'll reread again and I'll put my vote on someone useful.

[Kop]

I remain undecided and wary of Kop. Scum can easily townread me for the reasons he has provided, and in my eyes it is hardly AI.

--

This game will seriously get a hell of a lot more interesting once some wagons form. As of right now, we are in a fog. That is in part because people are not voting or talking. Or they talk about voting and are to scared to actually commit. Personally I'm at the point where I think you, myself, and Doom need to take a step back from taking initiative, and force the rest of the town to actually begin stepping up to the plate. We've done our share of talking and hunting. Time for the others to do the same.

Yes I am aware it's easy for scum to throw out town reads. However I'm not throwing it out to appease people, I'm basing it over the overall style within this game compared to your last game. If this style of yours portrayed the one you played in 664 then I'd be wary of you.

Moogin has not posted much, but her posts have made more sense, as if she's actually paying attention to what's going on.

Now that I think about it, though, if she's paying attention while lurking, that would be something scum might well do. I'll keep that in mind.

Moogin, Kop, and FEC ping me for similar reasons

Doom pinged me because he could be oppurtunistically looking here. Bothers me more he ignored Moogin for similar reasons to SR Kop or FEC.

VOTE: Moogin

You're not off my radar Doom -_-; But I want more from Moogin.

Kop feels off to me. His posts haven't been the most towny for me. The post about Aubry FWIW not burning him even if it's just RVS might be a slip indicating he knows that he and Aubrey are opposed. I don't really think so. The thing about buddying bothers me too because the post doesn't read like a jest at first glance but Kop explanation kinda makes sense?

Your last bit isn't a slip, it's a random comment that shouldn't mean anything in RVS. I've said things in similar jest in previous games, like in 664 I called Spade obvious scum in my first post with a vote, Spade hadn't even posted.

There are two reasons Hapa is scum. They come down to the fact that Hapa is a wonderful town player and a lackluster scum player. A few years back on TL Hapa was considered one of the best own around, and it is because he KNOWS how to see motives behind post. He sees logic thought process and illogical one.

This game, he has not shown that. He has been bland. Asking questions. Defending himself. All of it is bland, nothing is smart. That is why he's scum.

Furthermore, but only rayn can assest to that; last game the same thing kinda happened. For 24 hours Hapa was bland, and I pressured him. He woke up and showed two things : smart posts on one end, and genuine frustration feelings on the other. He was feeling bad at the fact that he was playing bad and that he was being scumlread. THere, after rayn, I and others pressured him, nothing of that.

So he's scum. The plus side is that if he's not scum he will wake up like the town god he is.

I understand that you may have played along with Hapa over on another site, and know his game play. However I don't think you can say with such confidence he is scum based on this, if you portray my game style on here, and compare it to how I play on my other site I play on, then your seeing two different players. Over on this site, it's a lot different compared to my other site, and it's different styled players so takes a bit of getting used to, to move my style from over there to here.

Meta is a powerful tool to use, but I wouldn't use it to be all end all.

I'm not usually convinced by Meta posts and reasonings mostly because I think Meta isn't Alignment indicative. But it might also be my inexperience on forum Mafia so I don't go digging super hard on past games.

Moogin are you gonna give your read on Rels especially since Rels came in with some very nice aggressive scumhunting here? Can you give a read on Hapa as well while your at it since you said you didn't understand why people thought Hapa was scummy?

Hapa's on VLA I guess still so I'll wait until he at least comes back before dropping a 3rd vote on his wagon.

I can agree with your first statement.

Kops's filter is horrible too.

1. Most of it is useless stuff.

But not the townie kind of useless stuff. Not the "I-dont-care-about-others" posts. No, useless-but-still-trying-to-look-useful kind.

Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.

What do you think of that post?

Useless question that have no follow up.

This is MafiaScum. Vote away. If you're not voting, you'll likely be viewed as hesitant scum.

I don't care. I vote when i actually am fairly certain someone is scum. If people wanna paint it as hesitant scum then they do. ^^
I see votes as "i am trying to lynch this person i think is mafia", not as "i voted for random person" or "reaction test" or whatever... It just is confusing imo. Keep it simple, that's what i like to do regarding votes. I believe that way scum have no outs from their votes, as if you vote you only vote for one reason and one reason only and you can never say "well i actually didn't think that guy was scum after all at the time".

There are no certainties of who is scum unless we have guilty or a scum claim. Votes on a wagon of someone you suspect gets far more answers than just sitting on your hands until you find someone who's willing, to put there hands up and say "hey I'm scum." Or even starting up a voting process on one of your top suspects.

Look at that buddying.

I don't really like giant walls because scum sometimes use that to scare off potential suspects.

Not being able to read someone simply because they are hard to read doest make them scum.

2. His ONE scumread is bad, he's not voting him, he's not pressuring him.

This one:

Fitz looks townie to me. This scares me, because I townread him for playing exactly the same last game. He was scum.

Also, there's nobody here who isn't a plausible wagonee, so literally any vote could be seen that way.

If you're referring to my jumpy voting, I do that at the beginning of every game. I can provide references if you wish. I find it helpful to know how people respond when I vote for them.

Pedit: Okay, then. That's been the case in the past sometimes, now that I think about it. He'll need to get involved soon to avoid the prod anyway.

VOTE: havingfitz

Your vote doesn't make any sense. Why would you say he looks townie, but then vote for him a few posts after. I understand you said that he was like that in the previous game but turned out to be scum, so you have paranoia that it could be another turn out like that, but is that the only reason your suspecting him?

Because in reality, your vote doesn't have a case or is backed up with any questions towards fitz to answer too. It feels to me that you were questioned about your previous vote on a needless slot right now, to someone that could appear needing pressure. And that is backed up by you asking Aubrey for her thoughts on Fitz, as if your trying to push Aubrey into Fitz direction.

First, this reasonning doesn't make anyone scum. Town are way more likely to flip flop their read on someone than scum. The inquisitive tone in the last paragraph is also not in phase with Kop's actions: he's not voting doom, he's not talking to him even though he's STILL HERE when doom comes back.
This post is after he explained why he scumread doom; after he agreed with Aubrey that doom was scummy; and after doom came back to the thread. But he doesn't do anything with him and leave the thread.

--

Yeah. Probably scum.

Your first comment about not following it up, apparently this phrase wasn't towards me and wouldn't indulge in this information until the person he aimed it at, responded. From what I remember of my post towards that.

Second comment about Doom, I didn't scum read Doom, nor did I say that I scum read doom. What's

this post

got to do with it? That says nothing about me scum reading Doom. I didn't agree about his vote and how he portrayed it, it just didn't make sense, however I haven't revisited that section yet and will do so.

On the minus side she had a a pretty bad re-entrance to the thread. She even acknolodged it herself, but acknowledging it doesn't make it any less scummier. She declared three tentative townreads on OOO (rayn in the above posts, sorry, will try to call him OOO) Creature on I, all of 3 we townread each other, probably some easy reads to copy for a scum when reading the thread and thinking about how to blend in.
Then she has to be forced to give a scumread, and it's lackluster.

On the plus side, after that she shows some change on these townreads. Like she does'tn know what to do. it feels town.

On another minus side she's focusing a LOT of these 4 players: doom OOO creature and I. Like she's kinda ignoring what's happening on the side. And it's a scum trait usually.

We agree on something. And that is one of the reasons I picked out, he/she was pressed into giving reads and those 3 were picked out fairly quickly because at the time, that was where most people were at. It's reasonable to do that from a Scums POV because it appeals to people and doesn't create ripples.

I know your going to complain when I ask this, but why are you scum reading Frederick again? Because if memory serves me correctly, it was due to him missing content or something before posting? If he is going through a shitty time, it is understandable to think that maybe he isn't putting his all into the game, or is heavily distracted due to the shit. Hence the replace out. He seriously should be put back to a null position in your reads vs. scum read if that is the case. For example: If he lost his job, going through a rough patch with family, has depression issues, school is kicking his ass, etc. it is understandable for lousy town or scum play.

First, I disagree that we should null read Fred because he feels bad and is replacing out. It might be the best fair way to treat his slot, but the game is about finding scum, so I'll use any information available.
What Fred did was:
1. don't do anything for several days, excuse: he was busy preparing his Dad's birthday. No problem there.
2. his first meaningful post is asking about something that happens post 36. BUT the answer is in post 37.
3. OOO calls him out on that
4. he gives an excuse that don't mean anything, then replaces out

2 things.
First, step 2 is scummy. He looks like scum that KNOWS he needs to start becoming active to not get lynched at some point. And the best way to look active is to ask pointless question that looks good. The problem is that this question don't try to push the game forward. It's a indicator of him being scum. In addition, the answer was LITERALLY in the next post. It shows that Frederick cared more about appearing active than solving the game.

Second, step 4 is scummy. That might be not fair. But Frederick made a blunder; got pressured by OOO; and replaced out. He didn't replace out of nowhere; he replaced specifically after being pressured. More likely coming from scum than town.

--

Now it is not slam dunk scum. It's still D1. It's possible he's town and played badly. But it's more likely he's scum.

I can agree with this, but I'd like to see his replacement and how he picks up that slot from this. I have seen scum replace out when they feel that they've been caught and don't have anything to get them out of the mess. This however isn't concrete for Frederick, his explanation is plausible. (Do hope everything is ok and works out for you FTR).

@Kop: For the record, I never said I thought havingfitz was town. I said he appeared townish to me in the same way that he appeared townish to me last game, when he was scum.

Yes I agree you never said he was town, I didn't say you did town read him. I made the point why would you vote someone purely looking townie, that was my point. Yes it may be paranoia kicking in because of the previous game you and fitz played before, but your vote didn't contain anything for fitz to answer too, to go along with the weird stance you took before that vote.

You misunderstand me Kop. I'm personally aware of the difference between my town and scum play. You noticing it however doesn't make me think you are town alone though. I don't see it as AI exactly. That is why I disagree with the town lean given to you, because that is what OOO is baseing it on.

Obviously you would be aware of your styles of play, other people won't be so.

[Kop]

I've had to adjust quote features because some how Doom derped the quote tags and knacked it up in post 540.

That really doesn't satisfy Aubrey's objection. Pointing out the reasons for the read is irrelevant if Aubrey just said that scum could easily use those reasons for a townread.

How much more do you want me to rewash all of that read and post it? Your still pushing this case, where as Aubrey hasn't commented anymore about it. Why are you regurgitating the same point over and over again? If Aubrey wasn't still satisfied about what I said about it, it's HIS prerogative to push it more, it just feels your latching onto a small point and hoping to shape the whole suspicion around. I can't say anymore to the reason why I'm currently town reading Aubrey other than what I've already said. I don't know how much more detail you'd like me to go into.

That comment from a previous game means nothing. Everybody makes comments like that. Claiming that this one doesn't mean anything in particular proves nothing. Maybe it's a slip, or maybe it's not; in any case, Kop's kind of biased. It feels to me like Kop might be scum trying to draw a false parallel to equate his (previous) townie and (current) scum play; it's not strong evidence, though.

It's not a slip, your trying to paint it that you'd hope it would be a slip. To be quite frank, it's mountains out of molehills, throwing shit in hope something will stick.

If everybody makes comments like that, then why are you still throwing it up, and saying it could be a slip or not?

So he's got possible scum evidence against me, but hasn't either voted me or voted someone else whom he considers a stronger scumread--and this after, as someone pointed out, scolding people for not voting suspects in post 125.

Seriously, I mean seriously. Your basing my questioning your vote and reasons for that vote, is scum evidence? The whole point of me asking all of what I did was to try locate your mindset in the whole thing towards fitz. It was NAI to what you were doing because the game is all about paranoia, I wanted to push you further into giving more detail to what you were aiming for, because you said one thing, then flipped it all round later with a vote without giving anything away to what changed, and that's why I questioned it, it doesn't necessarily say that it's evidence that your scum.

It's like me calling Aubrey town, then going on to voting him without physically stating I'm scum reading him, or even giving anything away. I'm sure there would be people questioning why I'm voting for someone I'm thinking is town without giving a good enough reason for my vote going there.

If you believe this case is better than anything else that's within this thread, then it's weak because your going after low hanging fruit based on not a great deal of information.

I mean look at your case notes:

-Meta reading on Aubrey
-Possible slip, possible not
-Lack of vote

Is there anything else you want to add to that list?

[Kop]

VOTE: Rels

[Kop]

i dont like this naked vote
or that you failed to answer an Important Question i want as many slots as possible to answer, but lets call that NAI

Kop: who are the most likely 1 or 2 scum lurking in YOUR townreads?

I only have one town read at the minute. Aubrey.

Scum is lurking between Rels, Hapa and Doom.

But I need associations after flip before I can have a better understanding who is a town read, and who could potentially be scum.

[Kop]

I echo the thoughts of Cassielle regarding Rels.

It would be beneficial if we got a flip on either Hapa or rels, but I am feeling rels more than Hapa at the minute. His whole push on Hapa, and that question that I questioned and a few others he just wouldn't reveal what he intended, it just felt that he was setting Hapa up to suspect then back off when Hapa came into the game properly. I get a strong sense of feeling that it's either bussing, or classic distancing if one was to flip later in the game. It looks worse with Rels backing out of it, which also points to that if Hapa flips town, Rels gains town credit because he can actually safely say well I felt that he was town because of his responses and there isn't any backlash towards Rel because of it.

Just it doesn't feel right anymore, my slight town read that I got has gone.

With scum having day talk, it could have easily been orchestrated and co-ordinated without having to work hard at it, if Hapa flips scum, it would point me heavily towards Rel again.

Taking Rel out would answer a lot towards my thoughts towards Hapa, it could make me think twice in regards to him.

[Kop]

Yeah I think if Hapa flips town Rels and OoO feel like good counter points. OoO has done a much less spectacular job outside of that first section of the game. Which with a little bit of coordination and some use of TL meta could all be contrived info. Of the three Hapa looked the worse but was also the one being setup if he flips town.

I don't like that OoO comes back with such a misrep on Cass feels like it's rather odd and kinda LAMIST. Then distraction wagon of Fitz who hasn't been corner for concern since much earlier in the day.

I'm okay with Hapa lynch today, if he flips scum I'm looking at Rels if he flips town look at OoO.

If we don't lynch Hapa, Rels is my backup because I think those two will yield the greatest information gain.

KidDamn looks like lynch bait by Rels Hapa wagon.

VOTE: Rels

Pedit: Kop echos sentiments here but I'm still concerned he's pushing Rels more than Hapa... but if that's the case I can easily see Kop Hapa if it's not Rels Hapa or something along those lines.

Also Kops point that Rels could flip scum makes me feel much better about Kop since he doesn't need to push Rels here if he's scum with him and they could just force that Hapa lynch.

To be fair, I understand your point on Hapa. But I think we gain more information from the Rels lynch.

I think Doom could be the outsider in all of this, but I don't think he will be put forward as a candidate today.

[Kop]

I've had 2 long shifts at work and I'm totally goosed. I don't think I have the energy to go through all the pages that I've missed because body is crying for sleep.

[Kop]

Sup everyone. Will read this thread now.

Should we really vote for the people scum!Hawk told us to vote for after he got hammered??

Also, please tell me who you are willing to lynch and who you think is town.

Will go read the thread now.

It's all WIFOM. At the end of the day, I don't think bussing is a great strategy in this setup. It would work in any other setup, but it's suicidal doing it in this format.

[Kop]

VOTE: Rels

[Kop]

Just got back on. Sorry had two busy days at work and being a delivery driver means I can't catch up as much as I'd like during day. Will catch up this afternoon

[Kop]

VOTE: Havingfitz

[Kop]

I just offered myself being lynched over a townie so Rels can what??? "get towncredit"? (when me - Rels interaction caused the whole thing in the first place). I am sorry, smart mafia teams do not do that. Especially when it would leave 1 mafia alive which has a chance of instantly losing the game if you shoot the wrong person.. They just simply agree to lynch the townie.

I cannot disagree with any of this. Bussing in this format is basically good as suicide to lose the game. Not even bussing on day one.

I don't think OoO is scum in this scenario as I suspect Rels more.

[Kop]

I suspected rels of that, and still do. That's why my vote is/was on him.

[Kop]

I echo the thoughts of Cassielle regarding Rels.

It would be beneficial if we got a flip on either Hapa or rels, but I am feeling rels more than Hapa at the minute. His whole push on Hapa, and that question that I questioned and a few others he just wouldn't reveal what he intended, it just felt that he was setting Hapa up to suspect then back off when Hapa came into the game properly. I get a strong sense of feeling that it's either bussing, or classic distancing if one was to flip later in the game. It looks worse with Rels backing out of it, which also points to that if Hapa flips town, Rels gains town credit because he can actually safely say well I felt that he was town because of his responses and there isn't any backlash towards Rel because of it.

Just it doesn't feel right anymore, my slight town read that I got has gone.

With scum having day talk, it could have easily been orchestrated and co-ordinated without having to work hard at it, if Hapa flips scum, it would point me heavily towards Rel again.

Taking Rel out would answer a lot towards my thoughts towards Hapa, it could make me think twice in regards to him.

Here.

[Kop]

VOTE: Hapahauli

Lynch all liars.

[Kop]

Phreeeow. Kop needs to be looked at real close tomorrow for that speedhammer, regardless of flip (FWIW I think that in a setup like this where scum have to be aware of PGO WIFOM games, it's much harder to say "X can't be scum, they fasthammered Y and Y was scum)

Didn't look for the vote count when I voted, still thought Fitz had the highest, and you never put L-1. If you had, I wouldn't have voted.

But I can take one for the team tomorrow if you would like to lynch me based on that hammer.

[Kop]

Phreeeow. Kop needs to be looked at real close tomorrow for that speedhammer, regardless of flip (FWIW I think that in a setup like this where scum have to be aware of PGO WIFOM games, it's much harder to say "X can't be scum, they fasthammered Y and Y was scum)

Didn't look for the vote count when I voted, still thought Fitz had the highest, and you never put L-1. If you had, I wouldn't have voted.

But I can take one for the team tomorrow if you would like to lynch me based on that hammer.

I'd like to think there are degrees of distinction between "look at closely" and "instalynch based on X alone". You make a fair point, I wasn't aware it was L-1 either as VCs have been a little more sporadic than I'm used to elsewhere.

I'm merely stating that I can take one for the team, because of the unnecessary attention I've brought onto myself from that speedy hammer.