Mini 1877: Spyro the Dragon (Game Over)

[Infinity 324]

Ok so at this point it's just a matter of finding which of my townreads are wrong. The play of most of my nulltowns is relatively in the range of most scumgames so I just have to interact with them more. RC is probably scum because it's unlikely he's wrong about his top 2 scumreads and I have a really hard time seeing gin as scum. Also the other issues I had with his play are still there minus the AtE which I realized is NAI...MoI I find scummy but I still don't really know how to distinguish between his town and scum games so I could be wrong there. The rest are likely in {aella, n_m, cakez, massive}

[eagerSnake]

This burden of proficiency argument is getting old quick mind you. It holds no water.

[SirCakez]

Spoiler:

Cakez, can I get a readslist?

At the end of this post

It's not unlikely that we have 1-2 very powerful roles we want to keep hidden.

This is why we shouldn't massclaim, for anyone still supporting that.

Yeah and Walking Dead was over the summer/start of school. I have 1/4 of the time now, so I can't exactly get very engaged. My posting is down sitewide.

It has nothing to do with post volume. It absolutely has to do with lack of any engagement in the post you make. But nice sideline attempt.

With less time and less posts ofc I'm going to be less engaged. They're very intertwined

I pretty clearly called out their crappy reads in those posts.
And I'm still scumreading the slot, so no clue what you're saying here. My vote is still there too.

So you’ve parked your vote on a player that isn’t the main wagon, aren’t doing anything of consequence in pointing out why they are scum (which my summary shows) and claim that I shouldn’t see that as potential distancing?

I literally just showed where I called out Aella scum, wtf?

Yes, because there's this thing called bussing.

Garbage. Of course bussing / distancing exists. It’s why my independent scum reads on you and Aella get enhanced with the interactions I am seeing. But using that fact as an excuse to not commit to an opinion in the present time is scummy fence-sitting.

You were in Science uPick, you should understand why I'm holding off on RC. This is a super special case.

I think not wanting to mass claim and the openly opposing it is blatantly anti-town in this situation

VOTE: MoI

Good vote but the reasoning is bad. Opposing the massclaim is protown here if anything.

It's very unlikely that eager is in fact a strongman. He was fakeclaiming to up the pressure. Now unvote.

Did he say he was fakeclaiming? No he didn't.

I am not unvoting until you prove to me that Strongman is town aligned

This is so absurdly bad I could only see scum pushing it.
Like why would scum claim that strongman here???? There's absolutely no reason. And town Strongman does exist.

now for those reads
Town - RS, eager
Nulltown - Leon, infinity, lane (I'm disregarding the IC claim for this read since it's unconfirmed and could be trolling, if it's legit then he's top town obv)
Null - Flubber, massive, NM
Nullscum - MoI
Scum - Aella, Gin

Special category - RC

VOTE: Gin

[massive]

That readslist from Infinity gives me the heebie-jeebies.

Also, I'm sad there's no SK. That just made too much sense.

[RadiantCowbells]

I honestly just don't want to post anymore I'm so fatigued from being sat on this whole game.

[Infinity 324]

I don't like that gin vote from cakez

[Infinity 324]

This burden of proficiency argument is getting old quick mind you. It holds no water.

RC himself said to vig him if gin flips town...

[Infinity 324]

That readslist from Infinity gives me the heebie-jeebies.

Why?

What do you think about RC v gin?

[RadiantCowbells]

This burden of proficiency argument is getting old quick mind you. It holds no water.

RC himself said to vig him if gin flips town...

I said that he could not that he should. I would much rather he just vig you becomes I feel like I've been town enough this game to be given some space.

[Infinity 324]

I disagree

[RadiantCowbells]

Fmpov of you you are either scum or just fully incapable of understanding the extent to which you don't understand my play and are assuming similarities that are simply RC tells are scumtells.

There's a point where when you in this game are interfering with my ability to play mafia in general you really just need to go.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like what I can't understand is that you have all these people who have played with me who are unable to give you a confident answer.

And you, after playing with one game with me and apparently reading something about my play in the aftermath of a blitz game, are able to confidently determine RC!scum at the drop of a hat.

I would like to believe that that is a scumclaim. I really would. I am acting on that principle.

[Infinity 324]

are able to confidently determine RC!scum at the drop of a hat.

I never said this. That is why I reconsidered, but ultimately I decided you're more likely scum than not.

[Infinity 324]

Again, the tells I noticed are a small part of the reason I'm voting you right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I think that Gin is scum. If I have no other recourse to get him lynched I will absolutely trade his lynch for a vig shot on my slot.
I shouldn't have to though. no one else is being required to submit to automatic vigilante killing if they're wrong about a read.
And that doesn't deter me as scum at all. If I am scum I don't have to go hard to get scum lynched. If I'm so worried about gin I can just NK him. Or I'll find a way to talk my way out of it.
All that this kind of bullcrap does is limit my ability as town to make the kind of difference that I used to be able to when I was given the space to do so.

I never said this. That is why I reconsidered, but ultimately I decided you're more likely scum than not.

You aren't qualified to make this decision. No one in this game thinks that you are qualified to make this decision.
The people who are qualified to make this decision would say that I'm either obviously or heavily leaning town because I'm sorta obviously town here.

Again, the tells I noticed are a small part of the reason I'm voting you right now.

Okay, whatever then. Hopefully you get vigged and if you are town, when or if we have a next game you play it differently.
I do lean that you are scum but I don't need a scumread to be willing to have you lynched or vigged here.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I think that Gin is scum. If I have no other recourse to get him lynched I will absolutely trade his lynch for a vig shot on my slot.
I shouldn't have to though. no one else is being required to submit to automatic vigilante killing if they're wrong about a read.
And that doesn't deter me as scum at all. If I am scum I don't have to go hard to get scum lynched. If I'm so worried about gin I can just NK him. Or I'll find a way to talk my way out of it.
All that this kind of bullcrap does is limit my ability as town to make the kind of difference that I used to be able to when I was given the space to do so.

I never said this. That is why I reconsidered, but ultimately I decided you're more likely scum than not.

You aren't qualified to make this decision. No one in this game thinks that you are qualified to make this decision.
The people who are qualified to make this decision would say that I'm either obviously or heavily leaning town because I'm sorta obviously town here.

Again, the tells I noticed are a small part of the reason I'm voting you right now.

Okay, whatever then. Hopefully you get vigged and if you are town, when or if we have a next game you play it differently.
I do lean that you are scum but I don't need a scumread to be willing to have you lynched or vigged here.

[Infinity 324]

The people who are qualified to make this decision would say that I'm either obviously or heavily leaning town because I'm sorta obviously town here.

Who would those people be? Not lane obviously, the guy who has the history of correctly reading you...

[RadiantCowbells]

Postie once designed a spreadsheet to determine my alignment. that was over 95% accurate for my games in 2015. I can still usually beat her in actual games though.
There's a relatively small sample size but Nahdia has only misread me once so far.
Frozen Angel and Firebringer can reasonably but not perfectly accurately determine my alignment. Firebringer goes purely off gut, I'm not quite sure how FA reads me.
Creature may be able to read me but I'd need to play more games with him where I was town to know.

I think that all of the above minus Creature who I'm not certain of would townread me here. Obviously FA already knows I'm town but.

Lane does have a successful record so far but his information on me is heavily outdated and I think that just because of how much my frustration with being pushed on has coloured this game he's not going to get a strong read either way. He's saying that I'm scum as confirmed town but obviously if he says that I'm scum he can't read me. Not much else to say.

Hey massive I have had no impression of your slot besides someone trying to stay on the down low. Remedy that.

Like I am just getting more and more agitated with this game when I try to talk to you but I'm not the kind of person who is just going to let you trying to call me scum stand.
I am reading MoI as town at this point and if this is just going to be a thing forever I am probably going to join him on lynching you.

[Infinity 324]

Oh, "would say"

ok

I can't take your word for this shit lol

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey Infinity let's say that you're town. Let's say that I'm town. How are you going to feel if I get mislynched or vig shot because of your play and you get mislynched to follow it because you pushed for it?

[Infinity 324]

RC, I don't want to play these games. I vote who I think is scum, and that's the end of that. If you don't like it, too bad. If that scenario happens, oh well it's part of the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Because if you do get me lynched or vigged that's absolutely what's going to happen. Does whatever confidence your read on me has justify risking two mislynches onto town?
My logic is not invalid; you're repeatedly dodging that point. Yours is; you're repeatedly dodging that point. I will ensure that your death follows mine if I end up dead to town at some point.
Your burden of voting me here shouldn't be more likely scum than not. You better be really damn sure that I am scum before you start pulling these triggers.

RC, I don't want to play these games. I vote who I think is scum, and that's the end of that. If you don't like it, too bad. If that scenario happens, oh well it's part of the game.

This is ducking responsibility.
No, it's perfectly part of the game. Actions have consequences. All actions have consequences. Your actions have consequences. Are the potential consequences worth it?

[Infinity 324]

It's part of the game, that's what I said. It's not ducking responsibility to vote who I think is scum. I hope I can do a good enough job of proving I'm town to avoid getting lynched or vigged if you flip town, but it's possible I won't. However, I'm not going to give extra weight to your threats. Anyone I vote carries a risk of them being town, that doesn't mean I shouldn't vote.

This is a dumb conversation

[RadiantCowbells]

I really don't see that being a town response here. I'm not going to consider switching wagons because I think it's unlikely that Infinity WKs to this extent but yeah I guess every time I talk to Infinity I think they're scummier and walk away more frustrated so.

[Leonshade]

Leon, you don't think universal townreads surviving to late game is

at all

suspicious? Like you wouldn't even look into it?

Gin's 1501 explains why this would be a bad reason to scumread someone, but my issue with your post is that it feels like a premature backtrack. You're townreading him and said that he'd have to be "god scum" this game, yet you felt the need to state conditions under which you would change your read. There's no reason for town to foreshadow how their reads might change, since town play is inherently reactive, but I can see why scum might feel the need to have a backdoor in their ISO, just in case. Commenting on LYLO reads D1 just seems too forward-thinking for town.

Of course you wouldn't want him to shoot you, but you wouldn't blatantly placate him, either. That would be too out of character for you. You're not in the position where you would need to go out of your way to placate Snake, so the fact that you haven't done isn't alignment indicative. The fact remains that in response to an accusation, you said "no, scummy players act like this" when that's not the way you would act as scum in this position.

See here’s the thing – do you think me not willing to toe the line with Eager is a scum tell? Because that is what Frozen floated and I responded to. You seem to want to focus on my response to her about it not the fact that in no way, shape, or form is the original conclusion alignment indicative.

Looks like you're right. The post of yours I quoted didn't show the context of E&A's statement, and my recollection was that they were making a generic statement of their read on you. Without the context your post looked like a deflection, but with the full context I can see where you were coming from.