Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Vecna]

Suggestion: We publicly agree on who builds which wonder, so that everyone else can submit no build request and get a higher priority during the next era. Then those player agree on which wonders to build while everyone else sits it out, and so on.

Also, I say Sciences on the resolution.

This idea is immediately veto'd because it helps scum immensely in deciding who to nightkill

Both resolutions are bad for town since both allow scum to strategize on optimal strategies to either lynch town, or work together as a team to deny town the most powerful wonders. Let them have to deal with the same uncertainty and chaos as town.

Scum have a scum-only wonder now. This is bollocks for reasons I wont go into to not provide them with superior strategy.

VOTE: No resolution

Shame though, the extra wonders option would make for a far more entertaining game.

[Vecna]

Let me rephrase why science is bad for town: Scum is going to have daychat. As soon as they know what wonders come up during the next day, they have -5- persons to strategize how to obtain the most powerfull wonders for themselves.

Any vote for a resolution is a scumvote from here on out.

it is so decreed by me, vecna

[Vecna]

If we vote for arts were likely going to be getting wonders such as double vote, governor, lynchproof and with a bit of luck the ability that shows the ammount of scum on the winning wagon.

Most of these dont add much for town and just make figuring stuff out harder.

Its almost worth it to make the game more interesting though....Choices choices

Entertainment > logic?

[Vecna]

Agreed with Math. Picking a resolution to minimize scum harm is playing to not lose. Picking what's best for town is playing to win.

Its best for town to limit scum influence on the game. Science does not achieve that. Arts -might- but probably wont.

[Vecna]

Not losing equals winning. So picking to not loose is by definition always the superior option.

Using semantics to justify a pro-scum choice - it has been noted

[Vecna]

Town cannot deliberate on who gets what since it allows scum to optimize nightkills. Id just leads to individual deliberations, and everyone getting greedy and saving up for that one awesome thing coming next day, and then all betting on the same thing. Result: lots of stuff goes unused.

Scum can figure out how high their priority number is. Activating sciences gives scum too much power to strategize since it is far easier for them that way to make a strategy which one of them gets what.

Im a scum strategizing nerd. I can see the super-obvious benefits of Sciences for scum, and id be able to manipulate science into a big big benefit for the scum team.

It is a bad idea if theres anyone competent on the scumteam.

[Vecna]

I dont really see how any of those scenario's improve with sciences?

[Vecna]

Lets just race to 11 on <none> so people can stop trying to make up excuses why we should pick a pro-scum option

Sometimes you just gotta protect em from themselves

[Vecna]

I missed that Leon. Vecna did say that first. So my question remains though but is Vecna slipping or something else?

Just assuming the most likely option

[Vecna]

I fully expect Gerry to want to take any wonder that has kill in the name....I may not stop him (B
Anyone who is voting art you're insane that's a pro scum choice and science is already explained on why it's trash now we gonna take 10 pages explaining this?
~Maria

What do you think of Titus' case for Sciences?

Lol you call it a case that's cute It's still bad. Why give scum any options at all when we can give them none.
~Maria

[Vecna]

The fact that Titus is not acknowledging the concerns for Sciences that a few of us have raised and keeps harping on "but we could do this with these roles!!!" is concerning.

Not really, she tends to do that all the time. Like I said, we just have to protect her from herself

[Vecna]

Let it go LUV, absolutely noone is going to scumread me over something so obvious and trivial.

[Vecna]

I know, but its not required

[Vecna]

(but you did manage to become my strongest townread after only 3 pages so kudos for that)

[Vecna]

Suggestion: We publicly agree on who builds which wonder, so that everyone else can submit no build request and get a higher priority during the next era. Then those player agree on which wonders to build while everyone else sits it out, and so on.

...So scum can have perfect knowledge of who to nightkill, and everyone else gets higher priorities and therefore no one gets higher priorities?

Yeh no



In other news uhh I did read what the two resolutions do and i'ma stick with science. Giving us the ability to better plan ahead for wonders > possibly giving scum more vote power

In fact I just don't like vote mechanics period, one voice one vote. Nahdia we even had a conversation about this before and then you go and you do this to me why

Pedit: this like 30 post Pedit is why you don't start typing a post and then drive home and try to finish the post

Pedit2: god shutup

Pedit3: vena I will pee on your car

Good, my car is in need of some good cleaning. Does your pee come in alpine pine scent? Better bring a decent brush or youre not getting any tip.

[Vecna]

Let it go LUV, absolutely noone is going to scumread me over something so obvious and trivial.

I caught scum with that "trivial" type of comment before.

Well you didnt this time

Also youre talking an awfull lot about your past accomplishments and what inflates your own playstyle.

Im getting a certain tingling.

[Vecna]

Also for the people who don't want anything, I got my eye on you.

And I ran out of Lillie's bag cuz I hated Lillie and I found Akane and I like staying in her bag more.

-Nebby

Stop staring at my ass perv

[Vecna]

VOTE: Science

Oh the feeling is mutual Vecna.

Another scum-notch for suddenly having poor reads

[Vecna]

Lets not add 1 extra person to the game for every hydra for us to keep track off.

Having titus and mathblade being a hydra is at least convenient since theyre basically the same person.

[Vecna]

I didn't notice Vecna was the first one to say 5 either. To be fair, me, him, and Maria just finished a game together where there were 20+ players and we were on a scum team of 5.

9=2
12=3
16=4
20=5
24=6

Typical # of scum to balance a game of the given size. May vary.

And considering Undertale and theme game you

really

think this is valid?

FoS Vecna and PV.

~~Math

Its a theme-game where all players have equal opportunities at the same power-level. Why wouldnt a standard distribution be used?

If this is really the level of reads I can expect from you guys this game ill feel cheated after having to deal with the real deal last game.

[Vecna]

When did I put it at L-1? I was already voting none. 8 + 1 = 9. 11-9 = L-2. Basic fucking math. IF you ca'nt do math you shouldn't be voting science.

You people...

[Vecna]

What do we not know about how the wonders work though?

Seems like a pretty straightforward mechanic so far. You built it, you get the power

[Vecna]

I am keeping this short and sweet and everyone not voting science can explain to me where I am going wrong.

None: We deny ourselves a power for the entire duration of a 3 month game because we want to enter day 1 faster, yay?
Art: Sure we get more powers to choose from but most voting powers favor scum more than town, Governer, Double Voter and Vote thief type effects.
Sciences: We literally just get more info.


None just seems lazy to me, Art seems pro scum and I don't see a con with science. I am open for more opinions but I don't know why anyone is voting something else.

Its been explained about 17 times so far....

[Vecna]

To be fair though, scum is most likely voting none after my first post to avoid drawing attention to themselves.

Maybe 1, max 2 wifom'ing it up by voting science or even art.

[Vecna]

Im not going to tell scum what they can do to gain an advantage.

Ive thought about it, I see a VERY CLEAR/STRONG way to abuse it.

Those that have played with me before know that im pretty decent at theorizing working scum plans.

Scum gain a BIG advantage with science.

Theres other reasons that have not been mentioned yet. Im not going to mention them.

[Vecna]

I bet india is a 3rd party factions that automatically wins it survives to the modern age

[Vecna]

I kinda think we should get all of these wonders, theyre all decent enough.

Doc on a lurker towny that will be unlikely to get nkd please. Let them scums hunt in that group for once.

Denying that bp/kill shit from mafia would be nice as well and allows at least a chance to turn a scumkill against em. The rest ia even more obvious.

Better to use inferior skills than to die without having used one

[Vecna]

Drixx just entered the game straight at the top of my scumlist

Announcing youre going to pick Treestump? REALLY?

Its just basicly scum knowing theyll need an excuse to not be nk'd yet in the endgame announcing to the world why theyre not getting NK'd. Guys guys! The reason im still alive is because im treestump and scum doesnt want subpar nightkills! I swear its not because Im scum that planned ahead.

[Vecna]

Scum will only have daychat if one of their team decides to build the wonder that allows it. That person then has to survive, which makes them easier to spot (assuming we don't do the usual thing where lurkers get allowed to lurk the first few days for no fucking reason). As an added bonus, whenever the mid game mass claim arrives, that person has to lie.

Someone sure has been giving a lot of thought to optimal scum picks and how to survive with them

And umm... limit 1 wonder per player means a scum team of (wait ... you know it's 5???) your indicated size will get to strategize exactly N-1 times all game (I'm assuming scum take daychat). I can see that being an advantage to them, sure, but there's way more town than scum. Further, scum are the informed minority. Sciences gives everyone extra info and thus closes the information gap. In other words ... your logic needs work.

You just directly contradicted your earlier point. So what is it, are you and your buddies gonna take it or not? Trying to signal what should or should not be done? Also youre comparing apples to oranges, scum isnt informed about what is coming so claiming town is catching up to them in this regard is nonsense. Both gain the extra advantage, scum can coordinate this advantage better, even if they do not take daychat

Finally, we have Titus in game, and once we know we can trust Titus, that's the biggest reason to advocate for more info. For anyone who isn't aware of how absurdly good she is at synergizing town roles, go mosey on over to Suikoden mafia and watch as she takes a few seemingly weak roles and gets them working together and

gets the entire fucking scum team right on day one, with no town on her scum list, except the 2-man mason team who were giving a false positive (and included me, who Titus notoriously distrusts)

. Yeah ... I'm going to say we play the odds that Titus is more likely town than not and we close the info gap.

Thanks for trying to shove your shitty logic down our throats though. Also, will be watching since that certainty of scum team size might be a slip. on you!

So you say my logic is shitty, but your entire argument why yours is better is because we should play the odds that titus isnt scum? Laughable.

VOTE: Science

The fact that Titus is not acknowledging the concerns for Sciences that a few of us have raised and keeps harping on "but we could do this with these roles!!!" is concerning.

Spiffeh you're better than this. Titus is absurdly good with information and if people will let her do her thing. Throwing shade on her for doing exactly what one would expect her to do as town ... not so good.

@Titus I refuse to go another game coordinating night actions unnecessarily after The Thing Mafia. The Thing was different in that everyone's role was public knowledge so it made sense to coordinate night actions and even then, scum had a pretty easy time slipping through the cracks because of every night action being public.

What you're suggesting gives scum a roadmap as to how to proceed during the night JUST like it did in that game.

I still have PTSD
~Maria

Well, that's an issue and if you feel that way, I don't think my words will stop you. It hinders my towngame to have less information, so that is why I said it is a personal choice. I still feel town coordinate better than scum if we keep asking the why factor, something that was missed in The Thing after we died.

That being said, anyone who makes an argument about scum can coordinate too is *side eye*. Of course scum can, but that reeks more of denying info to town boogeyman. Saying town sucks at coordinating is different.

If I can identify town early, I am good at optimizing us.

Yet others do not play like that as a whole.

So we're going to play sub-optimally because a couple of people screwed up in a different game with different players with different mechanics? What kind of reasoning ends up with that as an end point? Wake up sheeple ... each game is a unique entity. Take what's useful from it and leave the rest behind.

Suboptimal is adjusting our entire strategy to one person that could just as well be scum, and turn the entire idea against you.

Right now, scum have to choose whether or not to pick one of the existing wonders.

Why do people want to pick science that will tell them that better scum powers are coming?

Because we outnumber scum greatly and it closes the information gap.

More semantics to try and justify a subpar option. It doesnt do anything to close the real gap since scum still know who is scum and who is town and we still dont. There is no closing of any gaps, there is just an entirely different type of information and scum can utilize it far better

I think the tree stump power is arguable the best one depending on who takes it.

Agreed. I am tempted to just declare I'm going to take it, as I unilaterally did in Space Dandy 2 ... but that kind of caused a shitstorm.

Intent to build tree stump wonder. Any objections?

allready responded to this, but the entire use of treestump is to get nightkilled so that we know its coming from town. That wont happen if you announce it. Only scum have reasons to announce this nonsense since it allows them a fake town-cover where they have an excuse for not getting NK'd if theyre performing properly

No wonder powers so far have been 1-shot actions either so I also don't feel like playing around that either. (Also if we see a blocked cop whoever takes a roleblocker power would obviously be conf scum.)

Also I am assuming whoever takes the treestump power is scum and will ignore them.

That's why a townie should try to take it, to block scum from getting it.

Tree stump in the hands of an engaged active town player who is good in the mid and late game is like ... crazy optimal.

Even more crazy optimal for a scum to take it and claim it

Yuck. The only player that should claim tomorrow is Stonehenge and Treestump. Maybe not Stonehenge.

Why should the Treestump claim? If town, the Treestump drawing the night kill would be better than anyone else.

Treestump hides flip. That's a negative utility that gets claimed. It should only go to people who we insist stay at endgame. There's only one person who has posted that I feel confident as town with that ability (not us).

Agreed. Treestump claims due to the negative utility associated with it. This isn't normal treestump where you KNOW that the person is town because they flipped and you basically have a voteless IC. Whomever stumps this game will only be as powerful as their ability to build town cohesion and earn trust. Also ... probably should be someone who is good at the end game.

The list of people who can do both of those things effectively (from among whom I've played with recently enough to be confident I know them well) isn't tremendously long.

[Vecna]

allready responded to this, but the entire use of treestump is to get nightkilled so that we know its coming from town.

And the alternative is drixx doesn't get killed and lives to end game, which is also good if drixx is town.

And the -perfect- cover if scum

[Vecna]

Ok I didnt want to post this but all the dumbasses are forcing me.

SCUM WANTS SCIENCE.

IT ALLOWS THEM TO -NOT- PICK THE SHITTY DAYCHAT. WHICH IS A WASTE. OF A SLOT

WITH SCIENCE, THEY CAN DISCUSS DURING THE NIGHT HOW THEY COORDINATE THE PICKING OF ABILITIES AND HOW TO DIVIDE THEM.

WITHOUT SCIENCE, THEY NEED DAYCHAT TO COORDINATE

picking science effectively gives scum the opportunity to pass on daychat. We WANT them to be forced to pick daychat.

[Vecna]

Good luck arguing that point scumbuckets

[Vecna]

Everyone arguing so hard why they want science probably realized this.

Main person is Drixx who is literally bringing out all the bad arguments why we need it and is trying to -shade- me and my logic hard.

How do you feel about that Titus? Ignore the parts where he is caressing your ego and all that, and look at the argument he is making and how hard he is pushing it, pretty much just forcing all kinds of nonsense together just to discredit my reasoning.

[Vecna]

Everyone still wanting science, ill have your fucking arguments for it

And then ill destroy them and you along with it.

Bring it

[Vecna]

P-edit: If you respond to me with that kind of bullshit again Vecna I'll just ignore you all game. You don't know me and you're pissing up the wrong rope.

he really didn't respond with bullshit though.

No ... I mean embedding his responses in my quote so that it's absurdly difficult to see them and respond to them on the post a reply screen. Making the game harder on someone else is a dick move, and I'll just ignore any fucker who does that to me. I ain't got time for that shit.

gotcha

Vecna -- just quote and post above or below the quote, don't post your thoughts inside someone else's quote.

Fair enough, that I can do.

But I think we both know thats not what he was alluding to in his post.

[Vecna]

Idk I'm of the opinion scum won't pass up such a good power, daychat is really good and I doubt picking Science will mess with that.

Also this Drixx v Vecna thing is messy and based on mechanics and clashing egos and it sucks.

Im done with it. Ive said my piece, people can make up their minds on their own.

Ill even go so far as to admit drixx made some decent points in that big post. I still dont think it weighs up against the benefits to scum, but to each his own.

[Vecna]

Btw Titus, how do you like my attempts at copying my playstyle from the previous game? I can tell youre picking up on it.

Wanna go head to head again?

[Vecna]

But I think we both know thats not what he was alluding to in his post.

there is really no need to continue the needling.

drop it.

Its out of my system, and youre right that wasnt needed. Ill not stand in the way of a proper functioning town.

[Vecna]

My entire argument ive made is to make it as hard as possible for scum to come to a succesfull and proper strategy A&N.

But I can see Drixx's point as well.

[Vecna]

I wanna know why are you against wonder planning in public, Vecna. It lowers the possibility of two players picking the same wonder imo

- Akane

Cause it's a roadmap for scum to plan kills/blocks if they have em

Can there be a way to ensure each member picks a different wonder without scum knowing? Cos if everyone suddenly decided to pick the same wonder, only one person would get it and the rest of us will be stuck as vanilla and that won't benefit town either.

- Akane

Thats not how it works. People that dont get one can try again the next day.

[Vecna]

You decision whether to pick or wait should mainly be determined by how much something fits your personal style, and how likely you think it is that youre getting nightkilled soon (if it can still be made usefull at least).

[Vecna]

Can there be a way to ensure each member picks a different wonder without scum knowing?

No, but we could do something close.

Like frog chooses from {X, Y}, drixx chooses from {Y, Z}, titus chooses from {Z, X}

And if we had enough coverage of this it would at least not let scum know who chose what exactly, and probably lets us get close to choosing them all, if not actually choosing them all with mid-teens town players.

Scum killing the person in the middle confirms the sides though.

Something similair -might- work but passing to reduce the odds of scum coordinating their way to the strongest abilities should not be underestimated either.

[Vecna]

Wait tf did they just agree to chill for now? Hot damn

Also DEO, now that I look at it, Fro99er is also defending Vecna, even explaining how he perceives vecna's points to Drixx. I don't have a problem w Fro99er doin this, but I'm wondering why you don't.

I'm focused on you and your hard defense, not just people townreading Vecna.

Titus, are you looking for people defending their scum-teammate, or scum just white-knighting?

If its the first, please use your energy more productive.

[Vecna]

You decision whether to pick or wait should mainly be determined by how much something fits your personal style, and how likely you think it is that youre getting nightkilled soon (if it can still be made usefull at least).

I sort of agree, but what if we said "I'll choose from {X, Y}" instead of just the one that fit our playstyle. If we just let everyone pick their favorite power, then a smart scum who knows the playstyle of some town members could probably make educated guesses as to who picked what.

But the option version probably guarantee us close to complete coverage of the wonders from town (obviously barring what scum themselves does with PMing the mod), while letting most of us pick two closest options to their playstyle (a player or two might have to sacrifice to ensure full coverage), and making sure scum don't know who is choosing what.

True, allthough that probably wont be enough information to make very educated guesses since the ammount of variables involved whether someone gets it grows larger and larger as the days pass.

[Vecna]

Scum killing the person in the middle confirms the sides though.

There is no middle. It's a loop. And if we have 6 town players it's

2x {X, Y}
2x {X, Z}
2x {Y, Z}

Type stuff. One scum kill doesn't confirm anything

Hmmm I tried to break it, but killing one indeed doesnt guarantee anything. Interesting.

Scum in those groupings might mean we miss out on good abilities though.

Lets keep exploring this idea

[Vecna]

Wait tf did they just agree to chill for now? Hot damn

Also DEO, now that I look at it, Fro99er is also defending Vecna, even explaining how he perceives vecna's points to Drixx. I don't have a problem w Fro99er doin this, but I'm wondering why you don't.

I'm focused on you and your hard defense, not just people townreading Vecna.

Titus, are you looking for people defending their scum-teammate, or scum just white-knighting?

If its the first, please use your energy more productive.

Why does that matter? Both are scum motivations. Why are you interrupting my attempts to get reads?

Im just trying to make sure that you dont operate based on false assumptions, but carry on

[Vecna]

We chose in the group of {Mausoleum, Hanging gardens} so no one else pick from that grouping, okay?

- Akane

This is the sort of information you shouldnt out, unless we come up with a proper plan. And we should get at least a few other unlikely nightkills on that Hanging gardens imo.

[Vecna]

I dont think so Titus, but I really dont have much basis to go on - yet. My reads tend to be less then great on people I havent played with before.

Based on observations from last game im very very convinced LUV is town though, unless he did something brilliant with doing a complete mix-it-up on his scum-meta.

[Vecna]

My main suspicion atm is Maxous, and Mr Rampage also has something iffy about him.

Dont think that Leonshade would be that careless as scum, and he's probably being scumread by some people looking for easy targets. Should probably look into that actually

[Vecna]

We chose in the group of {Mausoleum, Hanging gardens} so no one else pick from that grouping, okay?

- Akane

This is the sort of information you shouldnt out, unless we come up with a proper plan. And we should get at least a few other unlikely nightkills on that Hanging gardens imo.

And risk someone else taking our dream wonder via priority stuff? No thank you

- Akane and Nebby

P.S: Yes, this is a double signature, because we both feel this way

p-edit: But we want a wonder of this era, specifically, which can't be built later per mod info.... Or don't you even know that? Well, you just awoke the Kraken and the Kraken will keep anyone else from building within those two wonders.

Kraken cannot do shit. Sorry, but it's more important that town actually HAVE these two wonders than to force who has them.

~Titus

Bingo

[Vecna]

Besides, you just advised everyone to pick wonders which match their playstyle. Well, neighborizer matches our playstyle more than anything else.

Im fine letting you have that, go at it. Shouldnt be a very high priority kill for scum regardless (if youre town that is, ofcourse.)

[Vecna]

What did you do to mathblade, Titus? Why are you taking the reigns atm? Not that I mind, just curious.

[Vecna]

Is no one gonna point out that the {X, Y} thing is a terrible plan that still gives scum a 50% chance of hitting the PR they want to kill, and a chance to try again for 100% the next night?

Stop announcing PRs. And you also can't select two and say 'no one else take them'. That guarantees one won't get picked. And tells the scum you're either a doctor or a neighbourizer. They'll nightkill EITHER.
Just pick with your playstyle and if you miss out, try again the next day with higher priority for you.

I'm gonna townread you just for this

How come? the same thing has been said before, and hes actually wrong in his understanding of what was being said

[Vecna]

If I obvtown, I'll very likely die.

Youre not high in a draft this game, so unlikely. Unless you make it very obvious you got some very sweet wonders.

Just town it up, since youre one of those people that is easy to sort. Better to get nk'd than mislynched.

[Vecna]

Youre not high in a draft this game, so unlikely.

How he knows?

I was referring to our last game where you were #2 in the draft. Here you dont have that advantage - or maybe you do and nobody will know about it.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Uzi
~Maria

Can you explain your Uzi scumread here? Because for me the difference between his play here and in PYP was night and day

[Vecna]

Ok I didnt want to post this but all the dumbasses are forcing me.

SCUM WANTS SCIENCE.

IT ALLOWS THEM TO -NOT- PICK THE SHITTY DAYCHAT. WHICH IS A WASTE. OF A SLOT

WITH SCIENCE, THEY CAN DISCUSS DURING THE NIGHT HOW THEY COORDINATE THE PICKING OF ABILITIES AND HOW TO DIVIDE THEM.

WITHOUT SCIENCE, THEY NEED DAYCHAT TO COORDINATE

picking science effectively gives scum the opportunity to pass on daychat. We WANT them to be forced to pick daychat.

Everyone arguing so hard why they want science probably realized this.

Main person is Drixx who is literally bringing out all the bad arguments why we need it and is trying to -shade- me and my logic hard.

How do you feel about that Titus? Ignore the parts where he is caressing your ego and all that, and look at the argument he is making and how hard he is pushing it, pretty much just forcing all kinds of nonsense together just to discredit my reasoning.

What kind of special are you? Are you

seriously

trying to argue that any scum team would pass on a day chat facilitator just on the HOPE that something better might be attained later in the game ... just because they can discuss what to build at night if we research science? That's your whole logical thought process?

And here I was assuming you had something actually important you were not saying and not something so completely implausible as to be absurd to even worry about.

Paranoid? No I don't think so.

TRYING TOO HARD

to look paranoid.

And you gets a townread!

~~Math

Differing opinions are a thing but in my experience the added advantage of being able to chat during the day is something very few scumteams actually properly capitalize on. In a setup like this id strongly prefer them being forced to take that over vig abilities or keeping the town from picking cops.

Youre free to disagree, but I yet have to see a good example where the day chat significantly changes the outcome of games.

[Vecna]

Sup nerds and Alisae and Vecna

Excellent, I've awoken the first morning to 23 pages. I'll just be reading.
Might not catch up til much later tonight, I have a short shift at work I'll be starting in a few hours.

Why am I not part of the nerds?

[Vecna]

The only reason to pass on day chat would be because they hope something better will come along later. Day chat is like one of the main advantages scum have on this site (and the site statistics back it up). The idea that they would pass on it (remember: they can only build it today ... if they pass on it, then presumably it's gone forever {excepting if multiple wonders repeat the same effect, which would be lazy and I know Nahdia isn't}) just because Science lets them plan what buildings to try for at night ... is just plain absurd. Planning which buildings to take is like priority level negative (insert really large integer) compared to what scum can use day chat to coordinate. The whole argument is so over the top ridiculous that I'm seriously wondering if Vecna is just trolling me at this point.

I agree daychat is very powerful, which was my main concern for not wanting science in the first place.

I think what Vecna is saying is that if science is chosen, then they can pass on choosing day chat to try to block off as many of the other D1 wonders that only town can grab, thereby limiting town's power a bit more. They can coordinate at night, knowing they get to choose that night from D1 wonders also with knowledge of what D2 wonders are. So it's not about waiting for powers as much as limiting town's powers on D1.

I'm not sure if that's enough of an argument to make me want to choose none, because I also buy your science argument. I think titus and spiffeh are town. I thought you were town on your first post, but then the back and forth with you and Vecna I have no idea. I've also never seen scum!drixx play. I'm town and if you, titus, spiffeh, ABR are town, we're going to win this. It'll be like mafiaception, but with titus on our side.

Scum w/ Vecna likely found.

Daychat and science are not related. Daychat is powerful in its own right. In fact daychat and science together leads for more ways for scum to possibly slip. And there is very little chance scum pass on daychat. If they do they are idiots and will summarily be lynched anyway. In other words not worried about a scum no daychat world. Because Titus and I will catch them.

~~Math

After these last posts from your head my faith in that is slowly dissipating.

[Vecna]

Scum w/ Vecna likely found.

Are you kidding me?

I was explain Vecna's POV. I didn't support it. In fact, I voted the other way and said I don't think Vecna's explanation is enough to make me want none.

Trying to distance himself from me because he thinks he might not like my flip? If so, townslip - scum would know that its not required.

[Vecna]

I did sr uzi but then I went to sleep and forgot what the sr was for....eh
VOTE: Max

Btw Vecna I don't really see that but then again you were around with him longer what are the dif's you're seeing?
~Maria

He feels way more daring and aggresive in his approach this game. He's more open about how he feels and is way moe opinionated, and he uses his hatred for mechanics discussion as an honest reasoning for some of his actions, but he doesnt use it as an excuse for why his play is lacking or why he's less active.

[Vecna]

I did sr uzi but then I went to sleep and forgot what the sr was for....eh
VOTE: Max

Btw Vecna I don't really see that but then again you were around with him longer what are the dif's you're seeing?
~Maria

Fake read like I thought.

I don't think your scum though.

Mother fucker do you want me to put my vote back on you cause it wasn't fucking fake
~Maria

[Vecna]

I did sr uzi but then I went to sleep and forgot what the sr was for....eh
VOTE: Max

Btw Vecna I don't really see that but then again you were around with him longer what are the dif's you're seeing?
~Maria

Fake read like I thought.

I don't think your scum though.

Mother fucker do you want me to put my vote back on you cause it wasn't fucking fake
~Maria

You can after you sheep me on Leon

See, this is the exact type of stuff I mean. Nowhere in the entire PYP game did he ever make comments like this.

I dont think im ever gonna vote this slot the entire game.

Luv you have my permission to remind me of this post if I ever do. Gimme a good kick in the nuts and call me to my senses if you will

[Vecna]

I did sr uzi but then I went to sleep and forgot what the sr was for....eh
VOTE: Max

Btw Vecna I don't really see that but then again you were around with him longer what are the dif's you're seeing?
~Maria

Fake read like I thought.

I don't think your scum though.

Mother fucker do you want me to put my vote back on you cause it wasn't fucking fake
~Maria

You can after you sheep me on Leon

Works for me
VOTE: Leon

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT?

-Nebby

Its called a town interaction

[Vecna]

The pool of very acceptable lynches:
Jesus, Yuri, Maxous, Creature, Uzi, Sondam

-Nebby

You can do better

[Vecna]

VOTE: Uzi

I'd vote Uzi.

Scumread on this slot

[Vecna]

Successive scumblocks and townblocks with LUV, back 2 back.

Cruising to victory like its noone's business.

[Vecna]

Frog, we don't have enough time to figure out a system. Get back on Nons.

What is this BS? We have 7 real life days plus another 14 real life days while we're in lynch phase.

Actually we have 7 days max for resolution and 14 days total for lynching. If we take 6 days to resolve we only get 8 days to lynch. Day Phases are limited to 14 days regardless of how long we take to resolve

did this really have to be your second post?

Be more entertaining, please

[Vecna]

Add me to that townblock where's Kison and Dream SOMEONE GET THEM IN HERE
Also nebby the only thing that scares me is boys
~Maria

I dont know yet. Get gerry in here so I can peer into his soul some

[Vecna]

I did sr uzi but then I went to sleep and forgot what the sr was for....eh
VOTE: Max

Btw Vecna I don't really see that but then again you were around with him longer what are the dif's you're seeing?
~Maria

Fake read like I thought.

I don't think your scum though.

Mother fucker do you want me to put my vote back on you cause it wasn't fucking fake
~Maria

You can after you sheep me on Leon

Works for me
VOTE: Leon

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT?

-Nebby

Cookie monster picture.

You can be part of my townblock though. Who needs Titus anyway

[Vecna]

Also Vecna I'll trust your gut on LUV.
Plus it's not like I'm getting anywhere with him.
VOTE: Maxous

Thank you.

[Vecna]

Though the Ali head just randomly having a scum read on me in prob scum.

Discrediting my read as random probs makes you scum.

-Nebby

So where have you talked about me before?

Are you saying you cannot have scumreads on people unless you talked about them? Or is it really just the appearance of randomness that bothers you after less than 24h?

[Vecna]

Add me to that townblock where's Kison and Dream SOMEONE GET THEM IN HERE
Also nebby the only thing that scares me is boys
~Maria

I dont know yet. Get gerry in here so I can peer into his soul some

Gerry is on Vacation for 2 weeks so he'll only pop in from time to time on day 1 he should be here after though
I'm still gonna bug him to post though.
~Maria

Maybe ill just sent him some fruit to get his attention

[Vecna]

Oh yeah did I forget to say that beeboy is now an acceptable lynch?
Cuz they are.
-Nebby

Agreed

[Vecna]

VOTE: Maxous

[Vecna]

Who cares? I want this one. I don't want more complex or game-solving or unique. I want this one.

Also town!Uzi townhunts.
Scum!Uzi (as seen in Large Normal 200) scumhunts.

That one line is also LAMIST as fuck along with it goes along the lines of "Hey, let's look like I'm doing something" and "Hey, let's saying I'm going to be doing things but not do things."

-Nebby

Just caught up to the resolution, lame. I would've wanted science

Cant always get what you want

But sometimes, you do get what you need

[Vecna]

Spiffeh

Boo.

I'd do Maxous.

What do you think of him scumreading me for scumreading Creature?

I think Spiffeh is town.

Maxous is the largest wagon. Are you in or out?

~Titus

Maybe I need to stab some at you to figure out whether theres some of that town fighting spirit you were displaying last game. So far im not overly impressed with this game of 1000 questions.

[Vecna]

Oh yeah did I forget to say that beeboy is now an acceptable lynch?
Cuz they are.
-Nebby

Is there anyone that you don't want to lynch?

For sure!
Frogger, DEO, Spif, Elbrin, Vecna, Uzi.

-Nebby

Why not Elbrin?

[Vecna]

Maxous is the largest wagon. Are you in or out?

Why are you so anxious for me to move my vote?

Why are you deflecting? Maxous is the biggest wagon. You "scumread" him. Yet, you're voting a solo wagon. So, my question is, why did you bypass the Maxous wagon? I'm not particularly thrilled with the rationale for Creature and I love wagons for analysis later.

So, are you in or out on voting Maxous?

@Vecna, You want a shitstorm. Go ahead. I can fight you. I don't particularly care to yet.

Shitstorms are entertaining though, but im not sure its in my best interest this time around to get you all riled up and out for my blood

Do you forsee coming for me in the future? Its allmost like you've been announcing something.

[Vecna]

Meh time for my beautynap.

Goodnight darlings

[Vecna]

I'm null on Nero. I really liked his 453.

I did sr uzi but then I went to sleep and forgot what the sr was for....eh
VOTE: Max

Btw Vecna I don't really see that but then again you were around with him longer what are the dif's you're seeing?
~Maria

Fake read like I thought.

I don't think your scum though.

I didn't like these.

Because?
-Nebby

453 was really far from anything alignment indicative even if he agreed with it. Fake read is a weird af accusation to make towards a town read.

He says in 453 Nero is null though. "Don't think you're scum" doesn't mean he thinks they're town. Could be sorting them
VOTE: beeboy

Frog, we don't have enough time to figure out a system. Get back on Nons.

What is this BS? We have 7 real life days plus another 14 real life days while we're in lynch phase.

Actually we have 7 days max for resolution and 14 days total for lynching. If we take 6 days to resolve we only get 8 days to lynch. Day Phases are limited to 14 days regardless of how long we take to resolve

did this really have to be your second post?

Be more entertaining, please

wow not cool I thought you weren't a nerd
let me finish catching up, nerd

Yaaaay!

[Vecna]

And that implies it's bad? Or did you know it was bad and thought you could push shit reasoning to scum read me?

wut.
I literally said that post wasn't the reason you town read the slot. It doesn't make a difference if it was a good, bad or null reason at that point.

The thing is I'm pretty sure I never said I was town reading Maria before that.

You said you thought they weren't scum reading the slot in the exact post I quoted.

What? Dude I'm hung up on the fact that you were thinking that was the reason I was town reading the Maria head and then assuming I think it's a bad reason.

I am just going to go to point A) and reexplain everything using an incredibly small amount of words since I apparently suck at explaining things.


453 is a bad post to like.

640 and 646 isn't how town talk to town reads.

Explain to me why you think scum would do this though and be so blatant about it.

[Vecna]

I want Spif, Deo, Elbrin, Vecna, Uzi, and Frogger to be my mason buddies.

-Nebby

No Drixx?

Take out Vecna and Uzi and add Drixx and I'd feel mighty comfortable with that.

~Titus

The reads are a lot better with me and Uzi in there. If were talking a town powerhouse that is.

[Vecna]

tbh I forgot Drixx was in this game.
Why do you not like Vecna?

-Nebby

He seems intent on starting a fight that would do nothing to help the game state, and his push at the start was a little . He's not lock scum for me, like Math thinks. Yet, if a wagon happened there, I'd vote it.

~Titus

If I was intent on starting a fight, this thread wouldve blown up already and you full-well know it.

I am poking you, sure - because im not as certain about your alignment yet as everyone else seems to be and im definitely an open mind about the possibility for the master-mind scum approach here.

Anyways, ill probably become obv-town in no time. Towntelling is my town-trait, super-strong scumreads is my weakness.

But youre wrong about LUV, I can tell you that much.

[Vecna]

I want Spif, Deo, Elbrin, Vecna, Uzi, and Frogger to be my mason buddies.

-Nebby

You are a fool in the process of being endgamed.

And who among those names do you suspect is going to endgame him? Because I havent seen you out a single read here.

Quite a strong statement given that, id say.

[Vecna]

tbh I forgot Drixx was in this game.
Why do you not like Vecna?

-Nebby

He seems intent on starting a fight that would do nothing to help the game state, and his push at the start was a little . He's not lock scum for me, like Math thinks. Yet, if a wagon happened there, I'd vote it.

~Titus

I'm more sure on Uzi!town than Vecna!town.

Vecna basically meta cleared Uzi, which really only happens if they are scum together, town together, or if Vecna is scum and Uzi is town. I don't see a world in which Vecna is town legitimately meta clearing Uzi, and Uzi is pulling off this amazing scum game fooling Vecna.

So 2 of the 3 scenarios paint Uzi town, 1 of the 3 paint Vecna town. But of course town is more likely in general. So probabilistically I really like Uzi for town. Plus some of the posts I quoted from Uzi scream town to me, so it's not just a probability-based argument.

I was scum with Uzi last game. I know his annoyances, I know how he responds to stuff, and to be a blunt asshole im not sure if he's capable of doing a complete turn-around on some of his scum tendencies.

Were town together this game, and thats why im meta-clearing him. If I was scum, would I make posts where I promise not to vote him the entire game, or keep him as an easy scapegoat for lategame?

Either way, I guess people using meta must be scum

[Vecna]

I want Spif, Deo, Elbrin, Vecna, Uzi, and Frogger to be my mason buddies.

-Nebby

You are a fool in the process of being endgamed.

This list is comedically horrible.

Like Vecna Frogger Spiffy LUV Yuri is my scumteam read.

~~Math

I want you to explain your scum-read on LUV.

You were in the game with Scum!luv. Go ahead, detailed explenation please. Because arguments as to why this slot is scum should be very easy to produce.

Yuri, Spiffy I could all easily agree on have potential to be scum. Frogger seems a lot less likely to me. Id like to see some reasoning on that as well.

Lets hear it Math. Good reasons why you can make statements as "comedically horrible".

[Vecna]

You can stop the fake frustration. I'm just taking notes.

A thing scum-uzi would never say.

I havent seen him be confrontational in PYP a single time.

Bring on more whines about me meta-clearing people, pretty please

[Vecna]

Why don't you like the Max wagon Uzi?

He's essentially being voted for being forced to compromise. The reality is that no one was seriously going to go through with Sciences or even Arts once The DEO gave their reasoning.

Theres other reasons as well. Those involving tingles in certain body parts (my scum radar that is conveniently located in my lower appendix).

[Vecna]

What are the others? The case he had on Spi?

I actually never told him to look at Spi I tr spi I don't see why he sr's it I'll have to ask

How me and Gerry's convo basically went like this (I have to para phrase)
Maria: Leon is my top sr Luv is a second scum read
Gerry: How come you sr them
(I never answered cause I was asleep)
Maria: Look at leons reaction and I also sr ____ and ___
Gerry: Okie I'll look
~Maria

Its interesting to me how a hydra of Maria + Gerry changes both their playstyles.

Ive witnessed it before in death-note mafia. I actually really like the combination of the two, and the sum is definately greater than the parts (no offense meant, take it as a compliment that you work well together).

No this is not a judgement of their alignment.

[Vecna]

Hi. everyone here check that The DEO contradiction i just posted pls.

He reason for voting us in the first place was flawed, and clearly she tried to cover it up and contradicted herself in the process.

~Gerry

It has been noted.

[Vecna]

I was reading them hold on now I think the only one of those I would call a shade throw was the one where I said do I have to say you have a big dick to get a townread because whenever someone strokes your ego you seem to tr them (drixx for one) I don't see how you call my Leon things shade when one was making a statement and the other was a fact, How is a naked vote on Uzi and a vote on Max Shade?
~Maria

A shade is any comment that puts a player in a negative light, doubly so when unwarranted. You've been trying to get me, Spiffeh, Drixx, Creature and A and N to turn on each other for awhile now.

Say, what's your Yuki read?

How is this shading any different from poking people to see how they respond? Why do you always make it out to be such a bad thing?

Like, 50% of your posts or so has been calling people out on shading other people. You dont really believe only scum do that, do you?

[Vecna]

Vecna achieved obvtown levels earlier and I really want DEO hydra to not be salty at them

Talk to me about this? I haven't liked the way it has been shading The DEO, yet comes across as though it believes they're town when it does.

Your assumption that it will be obvious when Titus is scum is false.

Approaching her like that is a mistake.

I have meta-reasons to be suspicious. Maybe they will vanish in time, maybe they will not.

Call it shading if you want, I really dont care.

Im gonna keep an open mind and not rule anything out for now.

Ill try to do so without getting in the way of town-titus (if that is the case), but im gonna keep prodding to see if everyhing is in order.

So far nothing ive seen from Titus should give anyone a lock on her alignment, so "shading me for shading her" is total nonsense.

[Vecna]

I know that but just stop. The non-town part was originally in italics which naturally forces people to draw their attention to it. There is no way you missed that.

So you're positing I came into this thread, as scum, saw it said "non-town", then thought "hey you know what would be an absolutely brilliant idea??? Trying to get town to build this for ??? reasons because Nahdia wouldn't OBVIOUSLY point out to them that it's a non-town wonder!"

Fuck off.

Forcing townslips by pretending to not read something scum wouldve obviously read and be aware of though?

I mean, either its a hard townslip or a forced one/dumbtell.

That sounds like a plausible strategy for scum wouldnt you agree?

[Vecna]

Alright, brief catch up summary.

Nero town.
Maria/Gerry town.
Mathblade is town. Titus is Titus.
Froggy town who took my comment on Yuri too seriously (I explained the context m8).
Still content with my vote on Spiffeh. His Titus read is not good and the vote on me is lol.
Kyouko possible scum. Attack on beeboy was complete lamesauce.
Don't trust A&N Hydra's over aggression as much as some others do. They're hedging their bets on too many wagons and some of the reads are too surface level looking for my liking.

Interesting set of reads even though its somewhat lacking in scumreads.

UNVOTE: Maxous

No hurry

[Vecna]

Vecna achieved obvtown levels earlier and I really want DEO hydra to not be salty at them

Talk to me about this? I haven't liked the way it has been shading The DEO, yet comes across as though it believes they're town when it does.

Your assumption that it will be obvious when Titus is scum is false.

Approaching her like that is a mistake.

I have meta-reasons to be suspicious. Maybe they will vanish in time, maybe they will not.

Call it shading if you want, I really dont care.

Im gonna keep an open mind and not rule anything out for now.

Ill try to do so without getting in the way of town-titus (if that is the case), but im gonna keep prodding to see if everyhing is in order.

So far nothing ive seen from Titus should give anyone a lock on her alignment, so "shading me for shading her" is total nonsense.

I mean to be fair I'm more interested in the MathBlade head currently, as I think they're the one I'll be able to read easiest of the two due to experience, but I don't think I've ever incorrectly read Titus when she's been scum. 2 game titus replacemenet meta OP.

I get the benefit of the doubt and wanting Titus to do her job if she's town, but I feel like your posts have been more

designed to throw doubt on her reads a lot.

I do like that you were willing to stick your neck out so far for your LUV read though. My issue is just with Elbirn calling it "obvtown levels" when I'm not sure on things as they stand.

You mean when I told her not to base her reads off of me being scum?
Or you mean when I was telling her her LUV read was wrong?

Not really sure what else you would base that off on, but please do enlighten me.

Better back up statements like that or just back down

[Vecna]

I know that but just stop. The non-town part was originally in italics which naturally forces people to draw their attention to it. There is no way you missed that.

So you're positing I came into this thread, as scum, saw it said "non-town", then thought "hey you know what would be an absolutely brilliant idea??? Trying to get town to build this for ??? reasons because Nahdia wouldn't OBVIOUSLY point out to them that it's a non-town wonder!"

Fuck off.

Forcing townslips by pretending to not read something scum wouldve obviously read and be aware of though?

I mean, either its a hard townslip or a forced one/dumbtell.

That sounds like a plausible strategy for scum wouldnt you agree?

I mean that didn't cross my mind at that point, but yeah.

I don't necessarily think those are the only two options though. Carelessness and trying to rush things can come from either alignment. Overall it's pretty null to have not read something fully because you're trying to rush things.

Reading things as townslips when they're not more often than not causes a loss.

Those 2 are the only options. There is no way scum would miss out on a little detail concerning the wonder that is reserved for them, not even after reading for 10 hours (since this would be the post they read first).

I dont buy that for a second. Either you really missed it and youre hard-town, or youre pretending to have missed it to appear as such.

Pretty Black and white in my opinion

[Vecna]

Spiffeh is my hidden lock for the scum thats going to be try-harding and be flawless on all his reasoning.

So much so to the extent that thats going to be his downfall (if scum).

My gut says there is a very reasonable chance spiffeh is scum.

[Vecna]

So you take issue with me defending myself and my strongest townread (LUV)? And letting them know theyre wrong about both?

Because thats what all those posts are except for the last one.

[Vecna]

And I did engage several times, in great detail, why I believe the read on LUV is wrong.

Youre awarded 1 suspicion point.

[Vecna]

Get some sleep.

combined with the wonder-thing youre now at 2 suspicion points.

My threshold for death will be around 3-4.

[Vecna]

Vecna what you think about 846?

Is there an easy to way instantly navigate to post numbers, if people dont make links of them?

Because making links of them is so convenient when asking questions like this, so I dont have to go play "guess the page" to find the post.

[Vecna]

So you take issue with me defending myself and my strongest townread (LUV)? And letting them know theyre wrong about both?

Because thats what all those posts are except for the last one.

No, not quite. I take issue with the way it was done.

I think I mentioned before that I actually liked the fact that you were willing to risk your own neck for your tr on luv.

I feel my way of dealing with that issue was completely justified, but to each his own I guess.

And I feel completely fine discrediting a read if I strongly feel, or know for a fact, that its wrong.

Doesnt mean im discrediting all of their reads or trying to make them look incompetent (allthough granted, that one post directed at mathblade could be interpreted that way if taken out of context).

If their slot brings reads I agree with, or reads I hadnt considered with proper reasoning, ill be more than glad to bandwagon it since I do know what Titus is capable off.

[Vecna]

Froggy

I explained why I'm scum reading Maxous now. The post you quoted was in reference to what Max contributed during the draft phase.

Also, I'm not going to drop a scum read because someone I'm suspicious of is also on the wagon. I'm not aiming to catch the whole scum team Day 1 and am well aware at how impossible that would be.

Even then, you've done a few things that make me uncertain so I haven't yet cemented a read on you. So I don't get why you expect me to be discouraged from voting Max.

Seems completely reasonable to me?

Either way, if spiffeh is scum he's only going to hang due to a guilty or a well thought-out later-game case is my assumption.

[Vecna]

You're grinding my gears with this (I quoted it for reference on this page so I thought you'd see it) but I want to know so here:

846

I allready went to look for it, sorry didnt notice u did quote it before.

My bad

[Vecna]

And I did engage several times, in great detail, why I believe the read on LUV is wrong.

Youre awarded 1 suspicion point.

I just checked. No you did not before the majority of thoses posts. Your earliest mention of actual reasoning for why LUV was any different from his scum meta was 661. There was only one post in my quotes there that came after that.

Following it up after that point doesn't change the fact that you were shading The DEO without explaining why you believed them to be wrong beforehand.

Yes, and all of the other posts you linked were me defending myself and critiqueing their read on me, not on luv....So your point here is what exactly?

[Vecna]

As for the attacks on me, pretty hard to provide reasons why I think their read is wrong if they dont provide any reasons of their own as to why theyre scumreading me.

Your point is moot. Let it go or come with actual valid arguments where im "shading" for reasons that arent obviously -because i know that i am town-

My suspicion on your slot remains

[Vecna]

VOTE: NoticeMeSenpai

The two suspicion points are enough for a vote.

The wonder "dumbtell" thing combined with you forming a scumread on me for reasons which you only find afterwards by scouring my iso are a valid cause for concern.

[Vecna]

Haha ok, creature rolled town this game for sure

[Vecna]

I know some have asked for Mathblade, but I am handling D1 until Math can come up with a non meta read that doesn't depend on Vecna being scum. We've agreed that's for the best, as otherwise, Math will repeatedly be attacking my townblock for disagreeing on her Vecna read. I am not hard clearing Vecna but I have zero interest in lock down drag out fights.

Can we get a prod or something on JC? Sitting this long on the sidelines is unacceptable. If their hydra account works, they should be posting. If it doesn't work, we should know that.

Thank you

[Vecna]

Can someone explain to me what part of Creature's catch up was town?
I iz confused

Unless he learned to talk as scum, creature talking is a towntell.

Scum creature just luuuuurks.

Town-creature just goes on the blablablabla attack (no this is not me shading, just me trying to be witty about the fact he literally throws out everything thats on his mind while town).

This is the meta that everyone always uses to identify his allignment, and in the 4 or so games ive played with him it has not failed yet (lame sample size, I know).

[Vecna]

Can someone explain to me what part of Creature's catch up was town?
I iz confused

Unless he learned to talk as scum, creature talking is a towntell.

Scum creature just luuuuurks.

Town-creature just goes on the blablablabla attack (no this is not me shading, just me trying to be witty about the fact he literally throws out everything thats on his mind while town).

This is the meta that everyone always uses to identify his allignment, and in the 4 or so games ive played with him it has not failed yet (lame sample size, I know).

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=68849 (many posts)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=68495 (average posts)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=69088 (no posts)

Idk I checked 3 games and he seems to be perfectly capable of not lurking as scum.

thank you for educating the lazy, seems he learned some new tricks since my last game with him in it as scum. Good to know.

[Vecna]

Hey at least I like that he isnt lazy and will call people on their bullshit.

[Vecna]

Some mess sorting.

Like for town

Creature
Lil Uzi Vert
Vecna

Slightly town side of null

Fro99er
Spiffeh

Null from scumpings but might still be town

The DEO (Titus & Mathblade)

Null from just not figured out how to read their stuff
Nero Cain
Maxous

Null from lack of posting/content
ssbm_Kyouko (+)
NoticeMeSenpai (JaeReed & mastina) (+-)
ooba (-)
Albert B. Rampage (-)

Yes, I know a bunch of you think they are town but sure as shit seem scummy to me

Akane and Nebby (Alisae & Malachite) (-)
Sondam (MariaR & gerryoat) (+)

Seem scummy, but slightly

Yuri (+-)
Leonshade (-)

More scummy

Elbirn (+-)
Drixx (-+)

Let's lynch!

beeboy

Vote: beeboy

Interesting, i agree with a great many of these. Maybe not as much with the hydra reads but the rest.......nice

[Vecna]

I get the same feeling too but what do you think about his endgame comment?

Endgame comment?

793.

Probably more interesting if albert comments on it himself. I know i asked about it before and wasnt heard

[Vecna]

Lol you think I omgus that's cute Alisae also pere wtf do you mean "a lot tr"
were the biggest wagon right now if anything people sr us more then they tr us I don't even know why people sr us no one said anything besides Titus also Nebby this isn't my vote this is Gerry's he think's DEO is hard scum I'm null on it so I'll trust his judgement if I had my own vote I'd be voting Leon right now
Like you people say it's shade comment when it's legit making accusations I do that all the time and so does he so how is it scummy this game compared to other games like what the fuck thinking is all this
~Maria

Sondam (5): The DEO, Elbirn, Creature, Akane and Nebby, Frogger

You're at L-6, not L-0, so some townreads on you exist.

If you were total scum I'd be voting you now.

If Gerry is out of town for two weeks, why don't you vote who you need to?

Why does this reek of coaching?

I was wondering the same thing. He has been rather overbearing on multiple occasions

[Vecna]

Don't be a dick Uzi.

You thought was being a dick? Seemed kinda cute to me.

[Vecna]

I'd vote A&N but I was waiting on Nero before I actually continued with that.

????



Vecna (and PV) what made ya'll so sure that Creature is town?

After Beeboy's post, it is no longer relevant (it had to to with postcount and carefree spamming)

[Vecna]

Yeah, you're scum.

then vote them with me

Notice isn't a viable wagon right now

You dont get to decide that. Its barely day2.

[Vecna]

gerryoat's insistence that Titus contradicted herself and desire for everyone to comment on it comes across as extremely town to me

Titus I do not buy what you're selling there

I also don't think Maria buddying me or "shading" others is particularly scummy

Literally the whole point of the game is to "shade" people and get them lynched, and I know from the The Thing that she buddies people pretty hard as town (Firebringer, EP, etc.)

I do have to note and agree that Town!gerry really tends to bite down when he notices anything that is a contradiction or an indication of a slip.

[Vecna]

I will have a neighborhood one way or another, because I am terrible without it and my reads are out of whack, hence I need neighborhood to catch scum. You know this too. You want me to give you scum? Then let me have someone to tell me what to do who isn't scum themselves and you shall have it.

- Akane

Isn't that the point of being in a hydra? You have private discussion with confirmed town for the entire game.

Can you tell us why the hydra is confirmed town?

They obviously meant theyre confirmed to eachother since they share the same allignment

[Vecna]

Haha ok, creature rolled town this game for sure

Hasty comment based on incomplete information

[Vecna]

I don't understand what you're asking me here.
Just because role management doesn't work in one game doesn't automatically mean it won't work in every game.
You scumread Titus for this apparently.

Once again, That's not why I scum read her.

The fact that Titus is not acknowledging the concerns for Sciences that a few of us have raised and keeps harping on "but we could do this with these roles!!!" is concerning.

I was concerned by her because she wasn't acknowledging the valid arguments that people had raised against Science.

I don't know how you keep misinterpreting what happened

To be fair, this is very much a towntell for Titus I think (at least something I know for sure she does as town)

[Vecna]

Not sure what to make of PV. It feels like there vote should be elsewhere.

I'm listening.

I like this response.

Trying to sort PV is such a rollercoaster ride of emotions.

[Vecna]

Btw, why is Drixx town?

[Vecna]

@all-
If this beeboy wagon gets out hand while I'm gone, keep the wagon to no more than L-2.

Day not ending with this unaddressed.
Not Voting (5): Drixx, Caesar Wills It, ooba, NoticeMeSenpai, Albert B. Rampage

Yeah the transition into the voting phase has been kind of uneventfull from certain people full of bravado before.

I also really want to see some more meaningfull contributions from Albert

[Vecna]

I'm TRing Vecna, Elbrin, Frog, Spif, Nero, DEO, Notice, Creature, PV, Uzi, and Drixx

-Nebby

Drixx, really? Just because of that powerrant?

[Vecna]

While I am here I am just going to say I don't think Nero is playing like his scum game at all (Dragon Age Mafia) and he is playing a lot like how he did in Street Fighter mafia so I think he is town.

Maxous is town because I liked his A&N and his spiffy reads (even though I didn't agree with his spiffy read it was still alright) and I don't think either of those pushes are ones he would have made as scum there.

We have way too many lurkers for me to comfortably have solid reads in this game tbh

.

The fuck, this is one of the most active games ive ever played, and there is a lot of stuff going on that could be allignment read. this is such rubbish that this statement by itself makes me hang you.

VOTE: Beebop

NoticeMeSenpai needs more attention. People are brusing his forced towntell aside too easily and are not reading enough into his weakass push on me with flawed fabricated reasoning. Only for him to conveniently disappear after it got too hot in the kitchen.

[Vecna]

NoticeMeSenpai needs more attention. People are brusing his forced towntell aside too easily and are not reading enough into his weakass push on me with flawed fabricated reasoning. Only for him to conveniently disappear after it got too hot in the kitchen.

Can you read my [pots]1305[/post] please.

I did read it, im just inclined to not care much whether its due to multiball or a single scumread. Also read my back and forth with him and notice how he's trying to find the reasons to fit his arguments only after being called out by me that theyre nonsense - and witness how all over the place he is.

He just strongly feels like he's trying to fabricate dumbtells and fake reasons to scumread people.

[Vecna]

Btw frogger, I do find your case on Yuri quite convincing as well. Cant really think of (m)any points to disagree with your reasons put forward.

Notice/Yuri/Beeboy all seem like decent lynches to me atm.

A&E wagon appears made up of pure lol

[Vecna]

I want Spif, Deo, Elbrin, Vecna, Uzi, and Frogger to be my mason buddies.

-Nebby

You are a fool in the process of being endgamed.

This list is comedically horrible.

Like Vecna Frogger Spiffy LUV Yuri is my scumteam read.

~~Math

These are still my reads. Not seeing anything that changes them.

Notice is obvTown. Leave them alone.

~~Math

Yeah that notice = obvTown is something youre going to explain to me.

Do it, or im going to be disruptive

[Vecna]

Also, you really think frogger is going this far to bus and bury his own teammate?

His large case on Yuri does not at all change your perception of who the scumteam might consist of?

[Vecna]

I want Spif, Deo, Elbrin, Vecna, Uzi, and Frogger to be my mason buddies.

-Nebby

You are a fool in the process of being endgamed.

This list is comedically horrible.

Like Vecna Frogger Spiffy LUV Yuri is my scumteam read.

~~Math

These are still my reads.

Not seeing anything that changes them.

~~Math

Pedit I will do so when I get there. I read the posts now I am responding.

~~Math

Im sure this is just gonna get shot down as shading again, but why are you confirming nothing has changed your reads yet before you have actually caught up?

[Vecna]

Also, you really think frogger is going this far to bus and bury his own teammate?

His large case on Yuri does not at all change your perception of who the scumteam might consist of?

Nope.

I once wrote a 4 page wall to bus my teammate in 1800 and Town still wouldn't lynch him. Length is not indicative of alignment. Soft defense of Frogger noted.

~~Math

Pointing at the flaws in your logic gets reframed to defending Frogger huh?

[Vecna]

Just catch up and revisit those reads. My eye is on you

[Vecna]

Yes Math, youre totally correct. Im scum together with frogger and LUV and hard-defending them out in the open because you caught us. Well done.

And if were all bussing Yuri anyway, go ahead and stick to your reads and vote the slot with us.

Because were all bussing our teammate on day2 of day1. With big walls and a lot of focus (look at me taking credit for Froggers work, but the point remains).

VOTE: Yuri

Go at it then, lets see how much trust you have in your read. Were bussing the slot. Lets speedwagon this.

[Vecna]

Yes I did. JaeReed is town for it. JaeReed suspects me as he does because Shadowrun. JaeReed makes mechanical derps. I like them but he does. This is town JaeReed.

WHERE does this actually happen?

I just went speedmode through the ISO but this doesnt happen. All the slot does is diss you because your scumgame apparently is easy to read, and attack me for shading you guys repeatedly. That and talk how it wants town-titus to be this game's salvation.

Explain your read better, because this does nothing for me in terms of why youre townreading it.

DEO suspicion has increased by 2.

[Vecna]

think ill just draft the statue of zeus to shoot the slot in the face

[Vecna]

Titus, get math back in here to answer my question.

[Vecna]

I demand a proper reason for the townread on that slot and why he singles out THAT SLOT of all slots to defend from pressure.

If the slot ever flips scum, DEO just became a policy lynch in my book.

[Vecna]

And they went from live commentating to *poof*

I will not forget this.

[Vecna]

Math and I are trying to sync. They're throwing a fit that I refuse to filter all reads through Vecna scum and demanding independent reads. I'm not sure how long the hydra will last. Math is no longer posting for the rest of the day, or until we can get a unified gameplan, because this is unacceptable.

~Titus

Well then talk sense to him because I know you have allready noticed that he's wrong

[Vecna]

And I still want the reason for that townread on the Jeareed hydra.

[Vecna]

Even with all this nonsense, I actually have a lot of faith in the wagon composition of this Yuri wagon.

[Vecna]

Math and I are trying to sync. They're throwing a fit that I refuse to filter all reads through Vecna scum and demanding independent reads. I'm not sure how long the hydra will last. Math is no longer posting for the rest of the day, or until we can get a unified gameplan, because this is unacceptable.

~Titus

Well then talk sense to him because I know you have allready noticed that he's wrong

Vecna, nothing you say will help the situation. Math was describing their method as find scum and build the world. I essentially have to strip out the bad in that method and show them the good. They perceive the town groupthink as scum groupthink at the moment. Asking them to picture a world with you town actually upset them emotionally, as if I was ruining their whole game.

Sorry to tell you this, but im not sure I buy that for a second

[Vecna]

Why are we voting Yuri again? And who he is?

He's scum Creature.

I tired to give him an out but he told me to fuck off so he dies.

I am actually sorta hoping LUV is scum here and fooling me good.

[Vecna]

What does VI mean again?

theres still so many abbreviations floating around that I dont know the meaning of.

[Vecna]

Im loving Uzi's playstyle this game. Its on the nose and hilarious.

Hoping to see him wreck the scum team in style with me.

[Vecna]

Math and I are trying to sync. They're throwing a fit that I refuse to filter all reads through Vecna scum and demanding independent reads. I'm not sure how long the hydra will last. Math is no longer posting for the rest of the day, or until we can get a unified gameplan, because this is unacceptable.

~Titus

Well then talk sense to him because I know you have allready noticed that he's wrong

Vecna, nothing you say will help the situation. Math was describing their method as find scum and build the world. I essentially have to strip out the bad in that method and show them the good. They perceive the town groupthink as scum groupthink at the moment. Asking them to picture a world with you town actually upset them emotionally, as if I was ruining their whole game.

Sorry to tell you this, but im not sure I buy that for a second

That's why their not posting. Their views make no sense because they are pushing through a likely false premise and do not want to realize they are probably wrong, so they cling on and get emotional. They believe, if I had them post more, that the entire thread would be scumreading you and that meta is the sole valid evidence Day 1.

P-edit - Village Idiot = VI

If Yuri flips scum, I will want Nero's head on a Pike.

Just tell him that if he really believes im scum, the best approach is just to let me bus half my team and then hang me

[Vecna]

Can you at least ask about the Jeareed read Titus? Because the explenation I was given was incomprehensible to me.

[Vecna]

This Nero Cain does remind me a bit of death note Nero cain.

Do take note, that is the only Nero cain Ive ever played with.

But he had the exact same style there with short snippy comments in full-on spam mode.

His comments seem to have less of the volume metric this game, but feel like they have the same tone to me.

Anyone have some input if thats also how he plays as town? Short snippy messages in high volume?

[Vecna]

Can you at least ask about the Jeareed read Titus? Because the explenation I was given was incomprehensible to me.

Mathblade uses They for the record.

Their explanation is simple. JaeReed derped and derping is their town game. See Shadowrun. (I'm sure they'd have more detail, but that's the gist). 90+ percent of Math's reads today are meta.

I tend to be an uncaring unsensitive mule when it comes to these things, and I always forget to adhere to these conventions.

Its not out of bad will, in real life id likely forget your first name as well at least once every week.

[Vecna]

@Titus - Get on the same page with Math. Vecna literally tried to reach out and adjust what people believe about another player's reasoning. That's like ... really anti-town. If I wasn't happy with where I decided to vote, I would vote him.

If you are absolutely certain Vecna is town, please explain why.

Where did I do that? This is getting to be a common theme among people, and here I was thinking I was taking it extremely easy on the personal attacks and shading this game.

Anyways I got a feeling we'll get along swimmingly in just a matter of days. Either that or our ego's will collapse into something resembling a black hole where no happyness can escape.

The last option seems like a bad idea with this playerlist though

[Vecna]

Im loving Uzi's playstyle this game. Its on the nose and hilarious.

Hoping to see him wreck the scum team in style with me.

Stuff like this makes me really paranoid you're scum buddying him.

Nothing wrong with a good dose of paranoia, just distribute it evenly

[Vecna]

I guess I did shift onto him rather easily, which is fine for him to be suspicious about.

Id much ather have ssbm adjust the frogger case from a few pages ago though, and adress why he thinks those points are invalid reasons for sheeping the wagon.

Now that would be a true depiction of town quality, instead of just making obvious observations.

[Vecna]

If you're scum, you could also nightkill yourself and try to manipulate us.

Creature may actually be scum

What he says is true though

[Vecna]

Can you at least ask about the Jeareed read Titus? Because the explenation I was given was incomprehensible to me.

Mathblade uses They for the record.

Their explanation is simple. JaeReed derped and derping is their town game. See Shadowrun. (I'm sure they'd have more detail, but that's the gist). 90+ percent of Math's reads today are meta.

I've never played with math. Can you ask them the reason for the scumread on me?

You're defending "obvscum" Vecna. That's their reason.

(Quotes are because I disagree.)

~Titus

But I'm bussing obvscum Yuri?

Got it

Math thinks unless Vecna gets lynched today, he will never be lynched. So they justify it as you bussing Yuri to save Vecna. I told them, well we get scum. They said but Vecna gets away.

~Titus

Wish I had a way of defending myself against the accusations, but it would probably just result in the shutter island scenario of mentally insane people claiming theyre not crazy

[Vecna]

Btw whoever said that DEO is going to be doing the good cop/bad cop routine has been proven correct

[Vecna]

I wanted you to vote A&N with me because I am pretty sure I can't achieve a lynch on my own right now.

Everyone needs to know how unlikely it is that this comes from town!beeboy

beeboy is well aware that voting for someone has advantages beyond getting them lynched. He was a strong advocate for wagoning his scum reads to pressure them in the game I linked earlier, Musical Mafia, where he was town. He is well aware that casting votes

So the fact that he doesn't vote a scum read here because "he can't get a lynch on his own" is appalling.

beeboy is NOT town here.

You have some promise of support from me in case this wagon falls apart or ends up lagging behind at some point. I do like the dedication you put in.

[Vecna]

Can you at least ask about the Jeareed read Titus? Because the explenation I was given was incomprehensible to me.

Mathblade uses They for the record.

Their explanation is simple. JaeReed derped and derping is their town game. See Shadowrun. (I'm sure they'd have more detail, but that's the gist). 90+ percent of Math's reads today are meta.

I've never played with math. Can you ask them the reason for the scumread on me?

You're defending "obvscum" Vecna. That's their reason.

(Quotes are because I disagree.)

~Titus

But I'm bussing obvscum Yuri?

Got it

Math thinks unless Vecna gets lynched today, he will never be lynched. So they justify it as you bussing Yuri to save Vecna. I told them, well we get scum. They said but Vecna gets away.

~Titus

Wish I had a way of defending myself against the accusations, but it would probably just result in the shutter island scenario of mentally insane people claiming theyre not crazy

Which is why I need time to work with Math. The insane is over the top and insulting to Math as a person, but yes, there is a reason I am keeping Math out of the thread.

You misunderstood my refence, so ill explain;

Even when youre not crazy, but get locked up in an insane asylum and declared mentally absent, claiming youre not crazy will only result in reinforcing the belief that people have that you are crazy.

Being overly defensive against unsubstantiated scumreads is likely to achieve the same.

[Vecna]

I dont particularly like your reasoning of taking offense to LUV's reason for voting as a valid reason to dislike the entire wagon and Froggers case.

ESPECIALLY if you basically state that you dont disagree with his reasoning.

From where im standing, and based on you last post, your vote should be right there alongside us.

[Vecna]

This focus on uzi's "immense rudeness" is not helping anything get sorted, but rather fels like some very weak deflection mechanism

[Vecna]

Ok time for my beautynap.

Goodnight

[Vecna]

To be fair, this is very much a towntell for Titus I think (at least something I know for sure she does as town)

Not acknowledging the arguments of others is a town tell for her?

Why couldn't she do this as scum?

Why is this still a question? I was typing addressing your concerns as you typed that.

Titus I get it, this isn't about you. I'm wondering why Vecna considers this a town tell of yours rather than something that you could do as either alignment.

All I did was bring up the point that it doesnt have to be a scumtell, which is what youre interpreting it as. Guess ill need to phrase things more so they cannot be misinterpreted, allthough I thought it was pretty obvious what I was saying.

[Vecna]

tbh I'd be more interested in a flashwagon on people like ooba, Pine hydra, ABR right now.
Like I feel like scum is specifically avoid discussing them to save them for mislynches for later.
Also I'm waiting to say my piece on beeboy. Now is not the time nor the place.

-Nebby

Now, this is actually want I wanted to talk about. Nebby wants to flashwagon the people he thinks scum is saving for mislynches.

Rule 1 of playing scum: If someone is lurking, let them lurk and eat a mislynch later.
Creature said he was down for those too. Does that make him scum?
-Nebby

Thats rather a black and white way of looking at it

[Vecna]

So I'm scum for wanting to pressure lurkers.
Or do you think I slipped that they're town.
Because if so, here, have a bloc of text explaining why you're scum:
BaeReed was once told something by someone he respected along the lines of

I will ALWAYS make the point that pushing on fake slips is a scumtell, in every single game I ever play. Because it's been a very reliable tell for me. I'll let you in on a couple of my other tricks as well; being "excited" about the game when the general mood is depressed or uninterested to the point of wanting to abandon is a scumtell. Claiming an investigative PR and making a lot of content about who you're going to check the following night (especially framing it as an fos ie "For that I'm going to check YOU tonight") is a scumtell. Jumping on people for too quickly commenting on a nightkill is a scumtell. These are all things I will pretty much always points out when they happen, regardless of my alignment.

Scum love having a "justified" vote. Instinctively, they look for a vote where they can lean back on a "factual" basis. A "slip" is a perfect example. When you push on a slip, you're no longer making your own read, you're just saying A therefore B. There is no read, you're presenting it as a fact. And when the person you push flips town, you don't have to defend your "read" being wrong, you can just use that justification you built as a scape-goat. It's what scum subconsciously do ALL THE TIME. Yes, sometimes town will mistakenly think they've found a scumslip. Players like Mathblade are notorious for that kind of play. But as a general rule it's a scum tactic.

-Nebby

Interesting food for thought, but why alert scum on day1 that these are the things you'll be looking for?

[Vecna]

....Bruh this is hilarious you were literally pushing a Jaereedhydra lynch on the basis that they slipped

People need to stop pretending this was just a normal scumslip. It was either just them not reading properly as town (since scum would always pick up on that) OR it was a forced townslip meant to fool us.

[Vecna]

....Bruh this is hilarious you were literally pushing a Jaereedhydra lynch on the basis that they slipped

Also the fact that you instantly think of this example in such a big game tells us something.

You really pay a lot of attention to what is happening in regards to Jeareed and A&E.

If you flip scum, ill take this as another suspicion point for the Jeareed Hydra.

[Vecna]

....Bruh this is hilarious you were literally pushing a Jaereedhydra lynch on the basis that they slipped

To expand, this post came literally within a minute of the one before.

A&E says something about jumping on slips is scum indicative and you have the INSTANT connection ready where you make a counter-point that he did it to Jeareed.

I think that is because there was some emotional response to him pushing Jeareed earlier. You dont think of this example that spot-on unless it has been a topic of thought in your mind earlier.

If you flip scum, that hydra is gonna be death-tunnel territory.

[Vecna]

Okay Drixx, you get Pyramids and you'll get Stonehenge'd.

I'm hoping to get IC more quickly than whenever scum randomly kill whomever builds stonehenge. Like ... I can OTAF pretty well, but ideally we get an actual hard investigate and I become an IC who can't be silenced. Glad you realize what I'm doing, and you should realize why I am taking it from our games played together. Both reasons.

If you're scum, you could also nightkill yourself and try to manipulate us.

That's amusing as hell. I'm absurdly confident of my ability to be obviously town when I want to, and I'm pretty ruthless and confident as scum, but I don't think even I have balls that big.

@Titus - Get on the same page with Math. Vecna literally tried to reach out and adjust what people believe about another player's reasoning. That's like ... really anti-town. If I wasn't happy with where I decided to vote, I would vote him.

If you are absolutely certain Vecna is town, please explain why.

Where did I do that? This is getting to be a common theme among people, and here I was thinking I was taking it extremely easy on the personal attacks and shading this game.

Anyways I got a feeling we'll get along swimmingly in just a matter of days. Either that or our ego's will collapse into something resembling a black hole where no happyness can escape.

The last option seems like a bad idea with this playerlist though

It's in my catch up wall. Nice to know that you just didn't bother to even read the part quoting and responding to you. You ask why someone town reads me, then answer your own question with a statement that you put a question mark on. It's called "controlling the narrative". Churchill was incredible at it when debating political enemies.

So what youre saying is because I question people their townread on you, while at that point you indeed had under 15 posts, of which all were mechanics related or involving a big powerrant against me, that I "literally tried to reach out and adjust what people believe about another player's reasoning"?

Throwing in some Churchill nonsense as well to go along it to drive the point home, nice.

And I did read your wall, and its good to see that at least you take some measure of pride in it, because seeing how much time and material it covered, I was thoroughly unimpressed - Id even go as far as to state it felt rather anti-climatic after all this business of tooting your own horn.

[Vecna]

I dont particularly like your reasoning of taking offense to LUV's reason for voting as a valid reason to dislike the entire wagon and Froggers case.

ESPECIALLY if you basically state that you dont disagree with his reasoning.

From where im standing, and based on you last post, your vote should be right there alongside us.

Wait so because I agree with someone else's reasoning I should drop my own SR and sheep his? No

Kyouko's take on the whole thing makes me realize that I probably went too far and should come clean. I don't know you Yuri. I just acted like that because I didn't like that you reentered the thread earlier without addressing your top scum read at the time which was me.

I didn't see your reason for voting Yuri, was drawn into the talk about who his main is.

@ssbm_Kyouko who are your scum reads at this moment?

Beeboy and LUV, maybe the oopna guy with the pacing cat for an avatar but that's just because I need to hear more from him. LUV I respect that he came clean about not knowing yuri but earlier before he said anything I was thinking he has no reason to lie about knowing Yuri if town and that's why I was okay with his meta voting but now it seems like he was actually more concerned with Yuri not addressing him right away because LUV was Yuri's top SR at the time. I don't think that's a valid concern less than 48 hours into a 21 player game though

How about you convince me then why you think the reasoning for your own SR is better than frogger's reason for scumreading Yuri?

[Vecna]

"I just want people to stop lurking"... said every scum ever.

VOTE: Akane and Nebby

Do you really think Scum A&N would have to resort to this type of tactics? His level of play seems way beyond that, imo, and he has plenty of material to talk about.

Suspicion of ABR increases by +1

[Vecna]

Senator Fro99er is to be flogged and censured for his breach of decorum, and for violating Our Will regarding the recent barbarian incursion, as well as his apparent inability to distinguish between a lavender shade and the royal purple of Our Decrees.

Entertainment has arrived!

[Vecna]

The way the votes are split like that between the three makes me wanna believe at least one of those are maf but, I'm more sure on The DEO or Creature being mafia

Leaving any reads out of this statement; but forcing a tripple town split wagon is a perfect scum tactic as well to secure 3 consecutive mislynches.

[Vecna]

Multiple scum factions might indeed be a thing here though. Barbarian camps never spawn alone, and barbarians do seem like the logical enemy of civilization.

[Vecna]

Either that or it has to be the montezuma faction

[Vecna]

Ceasar, can you like decree that people talk more during my daytime hours?

[Vecna]

Ceasar, we the people demand bread and games.

Provide us entertainment or its riot-time.

[Vecna]

You were warned, now look what you caused.

http://imgur.com/naaXHCy

[Vecna]

Yes

[Vecna]

But im judging that statement purely on the effort put forth by the hydra in this game. And the level of its performance is in my opinion high enough, to conclude that if they are doing this as scum, they wouldnt need to resort to calling out lurkers.

[Vecna]

A&E wagon looks a lot dirtier to me.

[Vecna]

I think theres a reasonable chance of there being 1 scum in <PV & ABR>

[Vecna]

Do you think mafia ever say town sounding things for cheap town cred?

No, they'd never do that

[Vecna]

And to elaborate, saying things that can go both ways just in the hopes that people interpret it the right way is also not something the A&E hydra doesnt have to resort to imo.

The much more likely explanation in light of the rest of their play is that they just dont like lurkers.

[Vecna]

This is sorta how I feel right now.

Yuri

(5):

Lil Uzi Vert

,

The DEO, Akane and Nebby, Vecna

,

Fro99er

Akane and Nebby

(5):

Yuri, Maxous, beeboy, Nero Cain, Albert B. Rampage

beeboy

(4):

ssbm_Kyouko, PeregrineV

,

Spiffeh, Creature

NoticeMeSenpa

i (1):

Elbirn

The DEO

(1):

Sondam

Fro99er

(1):

Leonshade

Sondam

(1):

Drixx

Not Voting (3):

Caesar Wills It, ooba, NoticeMeSenpa

Someone is taking my request for entertainment VERY literal.

Hahahhaha. Like, did you just switch around all the colours of your real reads on purpose?

[Vecna]

Tell me what allows you to deduce that both Beeboy and Yuri are town.

Im really wondering about Albert B rampage as well.

[Vecna]

What do you think of them wanting a flash wagon on the lurkers and then saying they were null?

Didnt they just talk about flashwagons as a means to pressure lurkers to be more active?

Allright let me humor you and go read into this.

[Vecna]

Tell me what allows you to deduce that both Beeboy and Yuri are town.

Im really wondering about Albert B rampage as well.

Or did you just start with the assumption that A&E is scum, and filled in all the colours to fit with that theory?

[Vecna]

hey look, Vecna is trying to laugh off and discredit my reads.

Yes I am, so what?

I think theyre horrible.

Try and convince me why theyre correct instead of whining about me being mean to you.

[Vecna]

How about you answer my questions regarding your reads on Yuri, Beebop and Albert B rampage?

Because I did just go through A&E's iso to confirm my thoughts and look at your reasons for scumreading the slot, and he indeed suggested flash-wagoning lurkers to force them to participate like i thought. Which is fine to me, and gives me no cause to doubt my read on him.

Thinking theyre null isnt a reason to not want to pressure them into participation so they can actually be sorted.

[Vecna]

Tell me what allows you to deduce that both Beeboy and Yuri are town.

so town beeboy gets ran up and there's a cw to Yuri? Why?

Scum Beeboy gets ran up and there's a CW to scum Yuri?

So yeah, there is atleast one town there. Its like you aren't critically thinking at all.

Or did you just start with the assumption that A&E is scum, and filled in all the colours to fit with that theory?

but this is p accurate.

I'm also running with Titus calling the Yuri and Bee wagons town lead as a slip.

Youre townreading both slots, so using the argument that the other is a CW doesnt fit with this explenation. Youre directly contradicting your own reads with this explenation

Suspicion of Nero increased by +1.

[Vecna]

Thinking theyre null isnt a reason to not want to pressure them into participation so they can actually be sorted.

So why does she never vote them?

That I cannot answer

[Vecna]

Also, both wagons developed pretty much simulteanously as a result of frogger and spiffed pushing their respective wagons and trying to convince people to hop on.

Ill agree with you though that Beebop Could be the target of a scum reinforced counter-wagon if youre only looking at the wagon formation process. Yuri's wagon is filled with people that were scumreading the slot long before so I dont see your argument holding water there. The only person that can be claimed had an opportunistic hop-on there was me.

[Vecna]

I am and you really think I'd do that as scum? bwhahahaha

Suspicion level of 1 =/= scumread

[Vecna]

I mean the way you asked made it sound like you were scum reading both and I'm telling you that it makes no sense to do so.

I think both cases have merit, yes.

At this point I think its more sensible to keep an open mind to the good points put forward by two players that have appeared very pro-town, than to just push a reads list that is only based on the assumption that A&E is scum.

[Vecna]

A wagon that has scum jumping on it with impunity would be quite interesting for analysis purposes though. And you know full well that is not why he would be interested in the flash-wagons.

[Vecna]

man I wish I remembered who it was that I played with that would use numerical values to fake hunt as scum. That's really what you are reminding me of.

How do I remind you of that? Because it makes no sense to me, and I havent used any numbers or statistics anywhere in my justification of things.

Ive stated that both Spiffeh and Froggeh put forward a case respectively on Beebop and Yuri that I think contains a lot of good points.

Ive stated I think A&E is likely town.

[Vecna]

I am and you really think I'd do that as scum? bwhahahaha

Also, scum rather often are forced to fabricate reads which turn out to have very flawed internal logic when pushed on and prodded.

So, why wouldnt this be the case for you (if youre scum).

Also why did you instantly jump to that conclusion?

[Vecna]

A wagon that has scum jumping on it with impunity would be quite interesting for analysis purposes though.

How would you tell the difference?

And you know full well that is not why he would be interested in the flash-wagons.

yes, he wanted to "pressure" the lurkers. Yea I'm on team cheaptowncred.

Probably in a very similair manner as youre trying to tell the difference now between a scum motivated lurker flash-wagon and a town motivated one for A&E. Either that or late-game VCA.