Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[PeregrineV]

Rather have Arts. it's an extra wonder, there are more town than scum, and it's day-based.

Vote: Arts

[PeregrineV]

If we vote for arts were likely going to be getting wonders such as double vote, governor, lynchproof and with a bit of luck the ability that shows the ammount of scum on the winning wagon.

Most of these dont add much for town and just make figuring stuff out harder.

Its almost worth it to make the game more interesting though....Choices choices

Entertainment > logic?

Just assuming all get built every day, by day3 everyone will have something. Except holdouts. So selectivity may come in as people hold out hope for better wonders.

[PeregrineV]

Sciences helps town optimize for best picks as well.

Except we can't really coordinate without outing the town roles.

the closest thing would be a binary system, where someone should be able to build a wonder but they can't because they already built a scum one.

[PeregrineV]

Also, I expect some people, maybe 1 town and( definitely one scum) will be able to build more than one wonder.

[PeregrineV]

Let's say a Gunsmith pops in two ages. Let's say a player is known to be really good at Gunsmith . The doctor keeps that player alive.

The neighborizer can neighborize likely town VTs and discuss their abilities and plan out which one they go for on both days or hold until a later option comes up.

All of this can be done without Science. Everyone finds out the wonders each Era as they appear.

[PeregrineV]

I didn't notice Vecna was the first one to say 5 either. To be fair, me, him, and Maria just finished a game together where there were 20+ players and we were on a scum team of 5.

9=2
12=3
16=4
20=5
24=6

Typical # of scum to balance a game of the given size. May vary.

[PeregrineV]

Right now, scum have to choose whether or not to pick one of the existing wonders.

Why do people want to pick science that will tell them that better scum powers are coming?

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, Arts isn't happening so I suggest you vote None.

I want this phase over with as soon as possible.

None over Science, to be sure.

But Science is pretty much a scumclaim, so I have no problem with this phase lasting an hour or 2.

[PeregrineV]

To be clear my issue with science isn't even totally that scums gonna scum

It's that literally every town will start waiting for the best roles to pop up and then everyone will try to build the same one when they finally do go for a good wonder and then suddenly we have one PR on like day 3 and a bunch of selfish babies who got nothing

To quote Gandhi at the Battle of Antietam in 374 B.C.E., fuck that shit

thank you!

If we vote for arts were likely going to be getting wonders such as double vote, governor, lynchproof and with a bit of luck the ability that shows the ammount of scum on the winning wagon.

Most of these dont add much for town and just make figuring stuff out harder.

Its almost worth it to make the game more interesting though....Choices choices

Entertainment > logic?

Just assuming all get built every day, by day3 everyone will have something. Except holdouts. So selectivity may come in as people hold out hope for better wonders.

[PeregrineV]

I didn't notice Vecna was the first one to say 5 either. To be fair, me, him, and Maria just finished a game together where there were 20+ players and we were on a scum team of 5.

9=2
12=3
16=4
20=5
24=6

Typical # of scum to balance a game of the given size. May vary.

And considering Undertale and theme game you

really

think this is valid?

FoS Vecna and PV.

~~Math

Hell yes.

Pointing to an exception does not make it the rule.

[PeregrineV]

I am keeping this short and sweet and everyone not voting science can explain to me where I am going wrong.

None: We deny ourselves a power for the entire duration of a 3 month game because we want to enter day 1 faster, yay?
Art: Sure we get more powers to choose from but most voting powers favor scum more than town, Governer, Double Voter and Vote thief type effects.
Sciences: We literally just get more info.


None just seems lazy to me, Art seems pro scum and I don't see a con with science. I am open for more opinions but I don't know why anyone is voting something else.

Pretty sure we get wonders each era, so your None conclusion is erroneous.
Art- Why do you think scum will be trying for voting powers when they already have daychat and redirector sitting there right now? So not clear how it will "favor scum".
Science- Instead of worrying about the future, concentrate on the now.

[PeregrineV]

Because we don't know how these wonders work.

There is so much we don't know. To assume standard distribution is a

flawed starting point

IMHO.

~~Math

It may be flawed, but does that make it scummy?

Vecna 50/50
PV hell yes

~~Math

[PeregrineV]

beeboy why are all the things you are saying so aggressively wrong

Hah! It's not just me!

[PeregrineV]

Say, talk to me about Beeboy and Uzi?

beeboy is heading for the gallows, imo.

Nothing on Uzi yet.

[PeregrineV]

Treestump is great for town, since even if they die they just become voteless.

[PeregrineV]

@mod

- Thanks for fixing Wonders display.

[PeregrineV]

The Hanging Gardens

Each night, you may target a player to protect from a single killing action.

The Pyramids

If you die, no information will be released along with your flip. You will become a treestump and may continue posting in the main thread. You will be dead for all other purposes.

Mausoleum of Halicarnassus

Each night, you may select a player to form a neighborhood with. This neighborhood will last only the following day & night phase.

Stonehenge

Each night, you may target a player. If you are killed during the night, that player's alignment will be immediately publicly revealed.

Statue of Zeus

Each night, target a player. The first time a killing action targets you, that action will instead be redirected to your target.

The Great Lighthouse

(Available only to non-town players) Factional topics you are a part of gain day chat as long as you are alive.

[PeregrineV]

Doc, treestump, neighborizor, cop-on-death (is there a rolename for it?), sorta bulletproof, Scum encryptor.

Most of these seem great for town.

[PeregrineV]

Alright, caught up.
I have one and a half scumreads
I'll wait for the end of this phase though.

why did you pick arts over none?

[PeregrineV]

@PV: Yeah and 4 out of those 5 have potential to go seriously wrong.

Really? How so?

[PeregrineV]

- Scum can act like they're a PR by bread crumbing or lay lowing and can trick a town who choose the doctor power to protect them

Except all the power roles are out in the open.
Town doc will choose who they think is best.
Scum doc, if they bother, wont protect the NK.

- Scum benefit if they get to neighborize someone or someone neighorizes them since they not only get information they might have not had but also get to manipulate in private

Smart town dont share with neighbors without reason. And most scum do not fare well in neighborhoods.

- Scum can use the cop on death to get an idea of who to kill

That's ok, since they are dead anyway.

- Scum can try to act as vigilante bait and get the vigilante killed

This is not a role currently in the game.

[PeregrineV]

Seriously? What part of "we have a player incredible at synergizing town roles" and "closing the information gap" were unclear?

There is absolutely nothing to stop Titus (or anyone) from doing that. She's got five roles now to work with, I assume more each day. why are you acting like anyone is being denied something?

[PeregrineV]

Seriously? What part of "we have a player incredible at synergizing town roles" and "closing the information gap" were unclear?

There is absolutely nothing to stop Titus (or anyone) from doing that. She's got five roles now to work with, I assume more each day. why are you acting like anyone is being denied something?

Because I'd have 10ish roles to coordinate tomorrow. The catch is, I don't have a solid plan to do that. If the neighborizer was permanent, I would. Each one is a one day long neighborizer targeting the self though.

Start with 5. (arts would make it 6.... just saying)

It doesn't state you can't neighborize the same person over and over, so just do that.

[PeregrineV]

Nobody, because we won't have that role due to priority not favoring us because of you peeps.

- Akane

How do you know your priority number?

[PeregrineV]

Seriously? What part of "we have a player incredible at synergizing town roles" and "closing the information gap" were unclear?

There is absolutely nothing to stop Titus (or anyone) from doing that. She's got five roles now to work with, I assume more each day. why are you acting like anyone is being denied something?

Because I'd have 10ish roles to coordinate tomorrow. The catch is, I don't have a solid plan to do that. If the neighborizer was permanent, I would. Each one is a one day long neighborizer targeting the self though.

Start with 5. (arts would make it 6.... just saying)

It doesn't state you can't neighborize the same person over and over, so just do that.

That's nerfing the neighborizer. A neighborizer works best when networking town into a masonry scum cannot infect. I have a minor plan but I need townreads before even considering it.

Then just be the treestump. Then, you can plan all you want and nobody can stop you.

[PeregrineV]

But what if we don't get the role that fits our playstyle? Should both of us twiddle our thumbs because we didn't get the role that fits it? Or maybe you want scum to luck out on priority system and the entirety of town to become vanilla?

Nobody, because we won't have that role due to priority not favoring us because of you peeps.

- Akane

How do you know your priority number?

[PeregrineV]

Then just be the treestump. Then, you can plan all you want and nobody can stop you.

This has like... nothing to do w what DEO was talking about wrt town networking.

My bad, please interpret what DEO was talking about for me.

[PeregrineV]

Frog: Why bring up self-meta at all then? To someone you don't know?

Pedit: falcon man idk how to translate DEO's talking about neighbourhoods to you talking about treestumps, you might be from a different planet entirely

She wants the neighborhood to talk and plan and strategize with a townread.

As treestump, she can do that in thread, while scumhunting, using ALL of her townreads, and never worry about death.

She just has to worry about being wrong...

[PeregrineV]

The Hanging Gardens

Each night, you may target a player to protect from a single killing action.

The Pyramids

If you die, no information will be released along with your flip. You will become a treestump and may continue posting in the main thread. You will be dead for all other purposes.

Mausoleum of Halicarnassus

Each night, you may select a player to form a neighborhood with. This neighborhood will last only the following day & night phase.

Stonehenge

Each night, you may target a player. If you are killed during the night, that player's alignment will be immediately publicly revealed.

Statue of Zeus

Each night, target a player. The first time a killing action targets you, that action will instead be redirected to your target.

The Great Lighthouse

(Available only to non-town players) Factional topics you are a part of gain day chat as long as you are alive.

If you are going to make a plan that is hard to fuck with, do it randomly. This is the list of who builds what.

Nobody claims.

Tomorrow we get another list. We assign the same groups to the town PRs.

Nobody claims.

By day3, we either have actionable intelligence, or we start finding out which scum took the scum wonders.

Anything else, aside from regular playing, is not a good idea

Gardens

Akane and Nebby (Alisae & Malachite)
Fro99er
Nero Cain
Yuri

Pyramids

beeboy
The DEO (Titus & Mathblade)
Leonshade
Elbirn

Mausoleum of Halicarnassus

Creature
Drixx
Julius Caesar (Aeronaut & Pine)
Lil Uzi Vert

Stonehenge

Vecna
ssbm_Kyouko
ooba
Maxous

Statue of Zeus

PeregrineV
Sondam (MariaR & gerryoat)
NoticeMeSenpai (JaeReed & mastina)
Albert B. Rampage

Pick whatever
Spiffeh

[PeregrineV]

I wanna know why are you against wonder planning in public, Vecna. It lowers the possibility of two players picking the same wonder imo

Who cares?

People can go with what they want and if they don't get it then they don't get it. It's just like if power roles were being randomized at the beginning of the game, except with this draft we just state our preference.

PEdit: No Peregrine, everyone should pick what they want to pick.

Yeah, kind of my point.

[PeregrineV]

Btw, yeah, we must coordinate our picks well. Are we informed who picked what?

Nope.

Peregrine picking randomly is bad and you should feel bad and literally no one is going to listen are u bein serious

No, randomly forces roles onto scum that they don't want.

[PeregrineV]

>By default, players may only build a maximum of one wonder.

Per era or the whole game?

whole game.

[PeregrineV]

I like Stonehenge better.

You don't like semi-BP-vig?

[PeregrineV]

Btw, yeah, we must coordinate our picks well. Are we informed who picked what?

Nope.

Peregrine picking randomly is bad and you should feel bad and literally no one is going to listen are u bein serious

No, randomly forces roles onto scum that they don't want.

It also forces town into bad roles. I will come up with something. Give me time.

All the roles are town except the last.
Which one is "bad"?

[PeregrineV]

Stonehedge will either be a waste or backfire.

Probably. Still town,as it relies on being the NK.

[PeregrineV]

This is a very large game with a lot of varied and directly opposed personalities. It's fine. The roles will get picked. Stopping scum from having a chance at the specific roles they want isn't gonna help us if a bunch of town players get supoptimal roles they ALSO didn't want.

Yeah, that's true. Power roles don't have to scumhunt. And giving scum shitty town roles really hurts town because 4etjiksn ijfkjek;n ajjfk kljkfjas; jhkhd dkp sdji wiiadiaj/ qwoji qojw[jp


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

[PeregrineV]

All the roles are town except the last.
Which one is "bad"?

Imagine lurking/oft-mislynched town with a role that activates only when they're nightkilled

[PeregrineV]

And this is what I have been asking the entire time: what happens if we don't get the thing which matches or skillset? Twiddle thumbs?

And guess what I got instead of an answer? Posturing that it doesn't matter if a player doesn't get what matches their skillset. My skillset is Mausoleum, are you saying that three other people who want it have the same sort of skillset? Not everyone is cut for neighborizer.

I would love for you to post your mafia resume that statiscally proves you are better in a given role.

And if you can't scumhunt unless you can neighborize, you should say so now, since it will make day1 much easier.

[PeregrineV]

Every era will probably have better Wonders then this one.

Yes. You are right.

If you were able to assign current wonders to current players, who would you give what role?

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine: You do realize ur plan doesn't force scum to do anything
You put them in a pool with several other players. Priority values are INVISIBLE. Scum can just not freakin submit if they don't want the role, and submit when they do

All this shit, these plans, these lists, I hate when cool setups devolve into this discussion

Yep, then we can lynch Vanilla Mafia because town will have all of the power roles, and cannot affect our night actions.

[PeregrineV]

What's the draft?

Nobody knows. Mod has assigned priority to each player. If you both go to build a wonder, then highest builds it.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine: You do realize ur plan doesn't force scum to do anything
You put them in a pool with several other players. Priority values are INVISIBLE. Scum can just not freakin submit if they don't want the role, and

submit when they do

All this shit, these plans, these lists, I hate when cool setups devolve into this discussion

Yep, then we can lynch Vanilla Mafia because town will have all of the power roles, and cannot affect our night actions.

what happens when day5 comes around, and everyone should have something, and scum don't?

[PeregrineV]

>Each day will begin with a 7 day long "Resolution Phase" in which a public resolution, with its consequences fully explained, will be declared on the table. Resolutions will be immediately passed based on majority, or plurality if the deadline is reached. Tie votes result in no resolution being passed.
>Immediately following the Resolution Phase is a 2 week long "Lynch Phase" in which votes to lynch may be cast.
>At the beginning of each resolution phase, a list of Wonders available to be built will be posted corresponding to the current era. Players may submit build requests at any time during the day as well as modify these requests until the end of the day via PM.
>Players will be informed if they succeeded or failed in building a wonder immediately following the end of the day, when build requests resolve.
>By default, players may only build a maximum of one wonder.
>All players have been privately assigned a priority value which they are unaware of. This value determines who successfully builds a Wonder if multiple people submit a build request for the same structure.
>If a player opts to submit no build request during a specific era, they will be moved to the top of the priority list.
>If multiple players opt to submit no build request during a specific era, the one who was previously highest on the list will be moved to the very top, and so on.

@Mod- Are the wonders that are built (or not built) public knowledge, even if the builder is not known?

[PeregrineV]

>Each day will begin with a 7 day long "Resolution Phase" in which a public resolution, with its consequences fully explained, will be declared on the table. Resolutions will be immediately passed based on majority, or plurality if the deadline is reached. Tie votes result in no resolution being passed.
>Immediately following the Resolution Phase is a 2 week long "Lynch Phase" in which votes to lynch may be cast.
>At the beginning of each resolution phase, a list of Wonders available to be built will be posted corresponding to the current era. Players may submit build requests at any time during the day as well as modify these requests until the end of the day via PM.
>Players will be informed if they succeeded or failed in building a wonder immediately following the end of the day, when build requests resolve.
>By default, players may only build a maximum of one wonder.
>All players have been privately assigned a priority value which they are unaware of. This value determines who successfully builds a Wonder if multiple people submit a build request for the same structure.
>If a player opts to submit no build request during a specific era, they will be moved to the top of the priority list.
>If multiple players opt to submit no build request during a specific era, the one who was previously highest on the list will be moved to the very top, and so on.

@Mod- Are the wonders that are built (or not built) public knowledge, even if the builder is not known?

@Mod- Are the wonders that are built (or not built) public knowledge, even if the builder is not known?

[PeregrineV]

I suggest nobody else tries to take the gardens from AnN unless you feel like you do very well hunting with neighborhoods

I feel like I do very well hunting in neighborhoods.

[PeregrineV]

Are we talking to JaeReed or mastina right now, and does that player always talk like this?

Like, with this tone. Does it sound natural to someone who is familiar with the poster?

pedit: Spiffeh is mickey avatar right? Not sure, let me think about him. I think I saw that frogger push and thought it looked good but I wanted to find something for myself

Based on post brevity, I'd say JaeReed.

[PeregrineV]

oh and PereV's post about who should take what wonders was funny lol, but don't know what to make of it readswise. PereV, why did you suggest that strategy?

Because anything game-breaking that can be affected by scum will be affected by scum.

If you want to force something, it has to be arbitrary and based on pre-existing info.

I don't think trying to game the system is wise at this point, and made the point by posting the plan.

Now, we are just to do what we think is best, so mission accomplished.

[PeregrineV]

Can someone explain to me what part of Creature's catch up was town?
I iz confused

The part were we get where he stands on people, and sometimes why.

[PeregrineV]

Some mess sorting.

Like for town

Creature
Lil Uzi Vert
Vecna

Slightly town side of null

Fro99er
Spiffeh

Null from scumpings but might still be town

The DEO (Titus & Mathblade)

Null from just not figured out how to read their stuff
Nero Cain
Maxous

Null from lack of posting/content
ssbm_Kyouko (+)
NoticeMeSenpai (JaeReed & mastina) (+-)
ooba (-)
Albert B. Rampage (-)

Yes, I know a bunch of you think they are town but sure as shit seem scummy to me

Akane and Nebby (Alisae & Malachite) (-)
Sondam (MariaR & gerryoat) (+)

Seem scummy, but slightly

Yuri (+-)
Leonshade (-)

More scummy

Elbirn (+-)
Drixx (-+)

Let's lynch!

beeboy

Vote: beeboy

[PeregrineV]

PV wat r u reads?
Also I like Sondam's scumread on us. It's cute and adorable that my scumread is scumreading us.
It's also cute and adorable that they went from thinking that Deo is scum to null.
It's also cute that their voting a nullread instead of their scumreads.

-Nebby

Good timing- 1159

[PeregrineV]

Some mess sorting where I got the formatting right

Like for town

Creature
Lil Uzi Vert
Vecna

Slightly town side of null

Fro99er
Spiffeh

Null from scumpings but might still be town

The DEO (Titus & Mathblade)

Null from just not figured out how to read their stuff

Nero Cain
Maxous

Null from lack of posting/content

ssbm_Kyouko (+)
NoticeMeSenpai (JaeReed & mastina) (+-)
ooba (-)
Albert B. Rampage (-)

Yes, I know a bunch of you think they are town but sure as shit seem scummy to me

Akane and Nebby (Alisae & Malachite) (-)
Sondam (MariaR & gerryoat) (+)

Seem scummy, but slightly

Yuri (+-)
Leonshade (-)

More scummy

Elbirn (+-)
Drixx (-+)

Let's lynch!

beeboy

[PeregrineV]

PV scumreads us! That makes me sad ;~;

Nah, talk to us about your scumread on me. I wanna hear wat chu gotta say.

-Nebby

1. Science
2. Treatment of Maxous
3. Treatment of Leonvote

[PeregrineV]

Also why do you scumread Elbrin and Drixx?
-Nebby

pedit: I just wanna hear what they have to say! Gawd.

Science

and arguments for science when common sense dictates it's not good for town as it is for scum

and DEO worship

[PeregrineV]

Mkay thanks for talkin to me
-Nebby

Sure, and since I'll be here all day I'll call you out for any bad posts you make!

[PeregrineV]

Lol you think I omgus that's cute Alisae also pere wtf do you mean "a lot tr"
were the biggest wagon right now if anything people sr us more then they tr us I don't even know why people sr us no one said anything besides Titus also Nebby this isn't my vote this is Gerry's he think's DEO is hard scum I'm null on it so I'll trust his judgement if I had my own vote I'd be voting Leon right now
Like you people say it's shade comment when it's legit making accusations I do that all the time and so does he so how is it scummy this game compared to other games like what the fuck thinking is all this
~Maria

Sondam (5): The DEO, Elbirn, Creature, Akane and Nebby, Frogger

You're at L-6, not L-0, so some townreads on you exist.

If you were total scum I'd be voting you now.

If Gerry is out of town for two weeks, why don't you vote who you need to?

[PeregrineV]

I'm excited!

and naaaaah, I don't care about the omgus. It's cute that you decided to target my weakest point tho.
What I do care about is you originally calling The DEO's a contradiction then calling it a slip. Because THAT is a contradiction. (Refering to 891 and 899)

-Nebby

that whole thing makes Sondam look more town to me.

[PeregrineV]

@Uzi, I want to believe you are town, but shading me for not agreeing with the wagon you want isn't cool. I just happen to disagree with your assertion. The behavior you describe is too dumb to be AI. I am not ruling out you being right, but opposing wagons would tell us more IMO.

If you want to be on the same wagon, why not Sondham?

@Sondham, Stop talking about who is annoying, get in sync if you can, and case someone.

Trying to set up a Maxous/Sondham dichotomy at this point looks really scummy. It looks like you are trying to manipulate the wagons instead of letting them develop as the game progresses.

[PeregrineV]

I trust his judgement were a team and if he has as big a sr as he's telling me I'll keep the vote it's called a partner ship

God being town is so fucking awful cause I have to answer these half ass remarks and pay attention where as scum I can just skim read and act like I'm being a pro

OK, it's your hydra.

But, in that case, you Maria should probably not try to defend your play to DEO, since it's not your so much as your partners.

Do you have reads that you both agree on 75% or more?

[PeregrineV]

Pere the way you worded it was like saying we have a huge amount of people townreading us when I can name 3 so fix your wording
~Maria

Not trying to rage you, but I will say you can't act like being townread is a right when it's something you earn (or not) each and every game.

[PeregrineV]

Lol you think I omgus that's cute Alisae also pere wtf do you mean "a lot tr"
were the biggest wagon right now if anything people sr us more then they tr us I don't even know why people sr us no one said anything besides Titus also Nebby this isn't my vote this is Gerry's he think's DEO is hard scum I'm null on it so I'll trust his judgement if I had my own vote I'd be voting Leon right now
Like you people say it's shade comment when it's legit making accusations I do that all the time and so does he so how is it scummy this game compared to other games like what the fuck thinking is all this
~Maria

Sondam (5): The DEO, Elbirn, Creature, Akane and Nebby, Frogger

You're at L-6, not L-0, so some townreads on you exist.

If you were total scum I'd be voting you now.

If Gerry is out of town for two weeks, why don't you vote who you need to?

Why does this reek of coaching?

Because of this:

Add me to that townblock where's Kison and Dream SOMEONE GET THEM IN HERE
Also nebby the only thing that scares me is boys
~Maria

I dont know yet. Get gerry in here so I can peer into his soul some

Gerry is on Vacation for 2 weeks so he'll only pop in from time to time on day 1

he should be here after though
I'm still gonna bug him to post though.
~Maria

Lol you think I omgus that's cute Alisae also pere wtf do you mean "a lot tr"
were the biggest wagon right now if anything people sr us more then they tr us I don't even know why people sr us no one said anything besides Titus also Nebby

this isn't my vote this is Gerry's he think's DEO is hard scum

I'm null on it so I'll trust his judgement if I had my own vote I'd be voting Leon right now
Like you people say it's shade comment when it's legit making accusations I do that all the time and so does he so how is it scummy this game compared to other games like what the fuck thinking is all this
~Maria

[PeregrineV]

Spiffeh

Boo.

I'd do Maxous.

Spiffeh

Boo.

I'd do Maxous.

What do you think of him scumreading me for scumreading Creature?

I think Spiffeh is town.

Maxous is the largest wagon. Are you in or out?

~Titus

So, what is your read on Maxous and why?

No, you don't have to move your vote. No one's saying you do. I'd expect rationale as to why Creature's scum though to try and persuade me to get on your wagon, since I haven't expressly stated a read on Creature or work with me on a mutual scumread. Sticking your fingers in your ears is helping town how exactly?

Bullshit reason. Not even everyone has posted yet. I read Maxous as town.

~~Math

Why is Maxous scum? Why are you so sure they are scum over me that you won't vote someone you just said is scum.

~G

VOTE: Sondham

Do you believe Maxous is scum? Or are you trying to throw more town votes onto his wagon?

~Titus

I know this is two of you having opposing reads, but it looks like you want to vote Maxous, but then somehow end up voting Sondham for something ABOUT Maxous, then trying to get Uzi to vote Sondham.

[PeregrineV]

Pere the way you worded it was like saying we have a huge amount of people townreading us when I can name 3 so fix your wording
~Maria

Not trying to rage you, but I will say you

can't act like being townread is a right

when it's something you earn (or not) each and every game.

It's more so I'm upset that I have no idea what were doing wrong. I don't think we've done anything really scummy sure were a stubborn duo but stubbornness is really NAI

@Sondham 1180 part 1 (Phone posting and omitting irrelevant parts is a pain in the ass).

I don't care if it's how you play or not. If you keep getting wagoned for the same behavior, you should stop doing it and adapt. I want to see you take a strong stance on something or eat rope. You and your hydra partner need to speak with one voice and sort shit out if town. Right now, all I am getting is shade tossing, refusal to commit, dissonance and rage.

TITUS. YOU. KNOW. MY. SCUM. GAME. AND. MY. TOWN. GAME. SO WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU ACTING LIKE I NEED TO CHANGE SOMETHING WHEN THIS IS HOW I ACT AS TOWN

~Maria

[PeregrineV]

Btw, am I allowed to discuss what games should I join (join, not replace in)?

Only if you include some scumhunting in every post that discusses it.

[PeregrineV]

I'd vote A&N but I was waiting on Nero before I actually continued with that.

????



Vecna (and PV) what made ya'll so sure that Creature is town?

Part of it is comparative, part history, and part day1 read based on his play.

[PeregrineV]

Not sure what to make of PV. It feels like there vote should be elsewhere.

I'm listening.

[PeregrineV]

Not sure what to make of PV. It feels like there vote should be elsewhere.

I'm listening.

I don't know, just seems like you scum read A&N, Titus head, and Maria head more.

A&N- They are playing and interacting and coming up with stuff, I just don't find it all that powerful or persuasive, personally. And I've flagged some behavior that will mean more later in the game.

DEO- Very ambivalent on Math overall, wary of Titus play in general. At some point that will do something that will trip me one way or another, but it hasn't happened yet.

Sondam- Similar to A&N when it comes to how I perceive them. They are doing stuff, but seem to overreact to others reactions to them.

I get hydra dissonance exists, but it is a scum tactic to hide behind when shifting reads and making opportunistic changes to play. To that end, I scrutinize hydras harder on most things, and don't give them the same benefit of the doubt I might a single player.

[PeregrineV]

Not sure what to make of PV. It feels like there vote should be elsewhere.

I'm listening.

I don't know, just seems like you scum read A&N, Titus head, and Maria head more.

A&N- They are playing and interacting and coming up with stuff, I just don't find it all that powerful or persuasive, personally. And I've flagged some behavior that will mean more later in the game.

DEO- Very ambivalent on Math overall, wary of Titus play in general. At some point that will do something that will trip me one way or another, but it hasn't happened yet.

Sondam- Similar to A&N when it comes to how I perceive them. They are doing stuff, but seem to overreact to others reactions to them.

I get hydra dissonance exists, but it is a scum tactic to hide behind when shifting reads and making opportunistic changes to play. To that end, I scrutinize hydras harder on most things, and don't give them the same benefit of the doubt I might a single player.

So what makes beeboy scummier than those 3?

1. Crappy resolution logic
2. Bad vote on you
3. Lack of engagment

On the plus side, I liked 1132- it shows effort to sort Creature (sort of).

On the more negative, I checked 1317, and I see Spiffeh's point.

[PeregrineV]

@all-
If this beeboy wagon gets out hand while I'm gone, keep the wagon to no more than L-2.

Day not ending with this unaddressed.
Not Voting (5): Drixx, Caesar Wills It, ooba, NoticeMeSenpai, Albert B. Rampage

[PeregrineV]

hypocritical ass

smartass

[PeregrineV]

PV is town

That's what Mama, Jesus, and the mod tell me.

[PeregrineV]

My Max read has nothing to do with what Nero thought of him lol

You can go back to my response to Max's initial push to see that I obviously wasn't content with what he had to say.

Math really hates this Maxous wagon, and but I'm not seeing any scum on it.

Maxous wagon is horrible.

Vecna and Frogger need rope after they likely bus Yuri.

~~Math

what the fuck is this shit.

I'm really losing my townread on DEO because of this dissonance.

Fuck me. Seriously. Does anyone have any good tips for not fucking up hydra stuff

change up the color scheme so you know it's not your main.

[PeregrineV]

Titus I think beeboy is just VI.

Are you the pot or the kettle?

PV is town

That's what Mama,

Jesus

, and the mod tell me.

bullshit, I never said that.

but ok you can be town.

Yeah, the first time someone mentioned Jesus directly, I thought "Who are they talking about"? Later it came up again I tired to figure it out with context, and then noticed your avatar. (and they called Spiffeh Mickey).

[PeregrineV]

You were warned, now look what you caused.

http://imgur.com/naaXHCy

Too much anarchy!

[PeregrineV]

Which head of Caesar Wills It is posting?

Based on the sum of their posts, please tell me why it matters?

[PeregrineV]

Oh yeah,

Pv I'm used to you literally never talking and doing nothing but prod dodge. What changed?

It's all about the time I have available.

Plus, I got tired of being ignored for posting more than 140 characters at a tim

[PeregrineV]

Oh yeah,

Pv I'm used to you literally never talking and doing nothing but prod dodge. What changed?

It's all about the time I have available.

Plus, I got tired of being ignored for posting more than 140 characters at a tim

e.

[PeregrineV]

I see Pine has arrived!

[PeregrineV]

Drixx is taking the treestump.
There is no reason for anyone else to take it

Whoever takes treestump needs to be lynched or vigged as soon as possible.

Town won't give a shit, since they are still in the game, and if scum then they have no vote and won't count against our numbers and will probably not bother posting anyway.

[PeregrineV]

Really up for the Ides of Day1. I strongly doubt this will be changed, but we'll see.

[PeregrineV]

Drixx is taking the treestump.
There is no reason for anyone else to take it

Whoever takes treestump needs to be lynched or vigged as soon as possible.

Town won't give a shit, since they are still in the game, and if scum then they have no vote and won't count against our numbers and will probably not bother posting anyway.

PV, Drixx is taking the treestump and has asked to be cop investigated so he can be a permanent confirmed town voice.
As of now, that's the plan.

Yeah, and that makes sense to you?

I don't see a cop investigation wonder, so how will this be accomplished?

He can be a permanent confirmed town voice by coming in here and be town and stuff.

[PeregrineV]

Lynch Vote 1.19

Yuri (5):

Lil Uzi Vert, The DEO, Vecna, Fro99er, Akane and Nebby

Akane and Nebby (4):

Yuri, beeboy, Nero Cain, Albert B. Rampage

beeboy (3):

ssbm_Kyouko, PeregrineV, Creature, Akane and Nebby

ssbm_Kyouko (2):

Maxous, Spiffeh

Vecna (1):

Caesar Wills It

The DEO (1):

Sondam

Fro99er (1):

Leonshade

Sondam (1):

Drixx

Not Voting (3):

ooba, NoticeMeSenpa, Elbirn

With 21 players alive, it takes 11 to to lynch.
Lynch deadline is in (expired on 2017-02-21 10:05:30), at which point we will default to no lynch.

@Mod-
Is on the one of the bbeboy votes not count, or is that just a typo?

[PeregrineV]

Drixx is taking the treestump.
There is no reason for anyone else to take it

Whoever takes treestump needs to be lynched or vigged as soon as possible.

Town won't give a shit, since they are still in the game, and if scum then they have no vote and won't count against our numbers and will probably not bother posting anyway.

PV, Drixx is taking the treestump and has asked to be cop investigated so he can be a permanent confirmed town voice.
As of now, that's the plan.

Yeah, and that makes sense to you?

I don't see a cop investigation wonder, so how will this be accomplished?

He can be a permanent confirmed town voice by coming in here and be town and stuff.

Stonehenge.

Thereby forcing the one cop investigative to stay locked on one player?

Nah. If Drixx wants no competition for treestump, he can come in and town the shit out of the thread.

[PeregrineV]

We could just lynch Spiffy, maybe it might clear Yuri?

LOL

A Spiffeh scumflip would have both of us (Math and I) want Yuri.

@Nero, I want detail. Explain like we're stupid on every slot since you think I am bad. Most of my reads are consensus reads IMO.

I don't want you to attack my skill, I want you to attack my reads.

Issue is, besides Math's meta reads, there is no idea where you are coming from.

[PeregrineV]

Yes I've ignored Yuri so far

I still haven't checked Fro99er's case, I'm sure that will upset him. Reading Yuri's posts independent of that case doesn't really make me feel any type of way so I'm focusing my effort on people that I think are scummy that aren't really in the lime light (like beeboy).

This shouldn't be news to anyone that this is how I play.

I am extremely tempted to continue ignoring Yuri out of spite.

You is arguing and fighting, but doesn;t seem to be developing any reads.

But since they are even posting in thread and available to sort is making them better than ooba, Caesar, ABR.

[PeregrineV]

We could just lynch Spiffy, maybe it might clear Yuri?

LOL

A Spiffeh scumflip would have both of us (Math and I) want Yuri.

@Nero, I want detail. Explain like we're stupid on every slot since you think I am bad. Most of my reads are consensus reads IMO.

I don't want you to attack my skill, I want you to attack my reads.

Issue is, besides Math's meta reads, there is no idea where you are coming from.

Rephrase?

Why do you scumread Sondham, Yuri and beeboy?

[PeregrineV]

EBWOP:

Yes I've ignored Yuri so far

I still haven't checked Fro99er's case, I'm sure that will upset him. Reading Yuri's posts independent of that case doesn't really make me feel any type of way so I'm focusing my effort on people that I think are scummy that aren't really in the lime light (like beeboy).

This shouldn't be news to anyone that this is how I play.

I am extremely tempted to continue ignoring Yuri out of spite.

You is arguing and fighting

, but doesn;t seem to be developing any reads.

But since they are even posting in thread and available to sort is making them better than ooba, Caesar, ABR.

*Yuri is arguing and fighting...

.

[PeregrineV]

I still haven't checked Fro99er's case, I'm sure that will upset him.

I am extremely tempted to continue ignoring Yuri out of spite.

Then screw you.

Thought we were friends. Now you're just being an ass.

Callback

[PeregrineV]

Not touching today: A&N, Bee,

Caesar

, Drix,

Elbrin

, Frog,

Kyouko

, Max, Nero,

ooba

, Sondam, and PV

If you want to set the standard at "providing minimally acceptable content to not be lynched today", can you provide a sentence or two on why the bolded have made the list?

[PeregrineV]

OK FROG I'LL LOOK AT IT NOW

Totally read this like this:

[PeregrineV]

Not touching today: A&N, Bee,

Caesar

, Drix,

Elbrin

, Frog,

Kyouko

, Max, Nero,

ooba

, Sondam, and PV

If you want to set the standard at "providing minimally acceptable content to not be lynched today", can you provide a sentence or two on why the bolded have made the list?

I've ignored most of Caesar's posts because Pine is just being purposely cringe and I want to see what the Aero head has to say.

Elbrin because his catch-up posts feel genuine rather than just rushed and thrown together to make it seem like he's been busy.

There is not enough content from ooba for anyone to want him lynched today.

Kyouko because I can read him fairly easily and I understood where he was coming from when he explained why he didn't want to be a part of the Yuri wagon.

- Fair enough, but hiding behind the pomp and circumstance of roleplaying when there are 80+ pages of content bugs me.

- Feels. Got it.

- At this point, maybe.

- What about the rest of his posts?

[PeregrineV]

PV, why should I be TRing you? Everywhere I go, you seem to be trying to derail me.

I don't care if you townread me, because that can come and go, like the wind....

I am constantly on my guard with you (Titus) because you used to be fairly easy to read for me, but as you've started playing longer, that has become harder for me.

Then, in some other games I weren't in, you experienced some mafia trauma that really toned down your rhetoric.

You can make good cases and scumhunt, but doing a useless vote count analysis and joining "why not?" wagons is not play I expect from you as town.

But, once again I get that play-styles evolve, so it could be town you.

But, I want to keep pulling and tugging at the mask until I feel it's really your face, and not a mask.

Does that make sense?

[PeregrineV]

Why is Leon still on Frog?

Leon is kind of scummy, so it's understandable.

[PeregrineV]

PV, why should I be TRing you? Everywhere I go, you seem to be trying to derail me.

I don't care if you townread me, because that can come and go, like the wind....

I am constantly on my guard with you (Titus) because you used to be fairly easy to read for me, but as you've started playing longer, that has become harder for me.

Then, in some other games I weren't in, you experienced some mafia trauma that really toned down your rhetoric.

You can make good cases and scumhunt, but doing a useless vote count analysis and joining "why not?" wagons is not play I expect from you as town.

But, once again I get that play-styles evolve, so it could be town you.

But, I want to keep pulling and tugging at the mask until I feel it's really your face, and not a mask.

Does that make sense?

But you haven't done that. You are not tugging at my mask but seem to oppose for opposition's sake in some places, like the Drixx read and coaching Sonia.

No, I am refusing to townread Drixx because I don't see a good reason to. That whole Science thing was bad. I'm willing to wait for his to self-redeem, but so far I'm still waiting.
Sonia=Sondham? Anyways, I'm trying to be polite when I think that whining about being voted is not the best use of your posts.
And that wasn;t really in opposition to you, was it?

And frankly, our reads are eerily close together on a lot of players. And while I like that, it also scares me. So not sure what kind of opposition you mean.

You also aren't encouraging ABR and Nero to give constructive thoughts.

ABR doesn't need my encouragement to post. He needs to do so, and he already knows it. I'm more curious what kind of excuse he is going to try when he actually does.
And Nero's hardtunnel powers have sometimes broken scum, and have made town be better town, so until I think he's faking it, I'm willing to let him rampage.

I don't really see a Yuri stance. The only major wagon you have voted is beeboy in opposition to Yuri.

1974- Yuri stance.

1159-My beeboy vote
1236- Yui vote1 Frogger
1254- Yuri vote2 Uzi
1272- Yuri vote3 DEO

I also find it hard to believe Town Titus says stuff that can be proven wrong.

You've been working against what joint reads Math and I establish in thread.

His reads are such that you banned him from spamming the thread with them.
Why would I agree with them?
(Also, not sure why this is relevant.)

So prod at me.

Pretty sure I've been doing that, but I'm not going to be a dick about it. It's only day1.

[PeregrineV]

Daytalk I always feel is the best PR bar none. In Shadowrun where JaeReed is not so subtly referring scout and I used daytalk extensively to our advantage. Even though I never got a break from posting it let me remain consistent and strategize with scout. A couple of times I even told scout when to pivot and he proofed stuff I did.

Daytalk is useful if utilized by the scumteam.

But overall, it is so useless that it is now standard to include it in games, where it used to not be standard in games.

[PeregrineV]

And PV, if you're scum, you gotta break the town wall somewhere. The science thing is null, and you know it. The choices made were more about playstyle than alignment. The proper scum response was to oppose whichever funding (or lack there of) would help town. So I stipulate scum should have wanted to deny science but that's because I know I am town.

Saying Yuri is better than others is not stating Yuri is either town or scum, or if you'd be willing to sheep townreads there. I get the gist that your TRs all SR Yuri, you are not willing to vote there but are not TRing Yuri, which leaves me with you taking no clear stance.

Your response also saying I don't get how you'd be confused, also makes me feel like I am correct in asking for a more detailed opinion.

The reads we disagree on yes. Yet, Drixx is one of two TR reads we both have.

This whole post doesn't really make sense to me. Try putting a single topic in a single post.

The Yuri thing I do get. I find their play scummy. But, they could be town, and are active, which means they can be read. But yes, their activity mostly involves not wanting to be outted and some sort of self-defense, which I do not like. I am not voting them now because there is still time in the day, and I want to see where it goes. When the time comes, if they have not improved their posting to where I no longer find them scummy, then I'll probably vote them. Conversely, if they devolve in posting, I might vote them sooner.
Kind of standard read gathering techniques.

[PeregrineV]

if anybody but Drixx takes the treestump then i will personally grab a vig later and shoot them

is that a good enough reason for everybody?

I think you really mean you will vig them no matter what. And that is genius.

Drixx is taking the treestump.
There is no reason for anyone else to take it

Whoever takes treestump needs to be lynched or vigged as soon as possible.

Town won't give a shit, since they are still in the game, and if scum then they have no vote and won't count against our numbers and will probably not bother posting anyway.

[PeregrineV]

Titus, how do I best engage mr ceasar about his wrong read on me to stop it from interfering with our work here. you know pine I assume.

Direct engagement with arguments, or ignoring?

I'm not Titus, but ignore that shit.

If he's scum, it's all bullshit.

If he's town, he hasn't bothered giving reasons or commenting on any other part of the game.

[PeregrineV]

Hmmm im even considering bidding on the stump myself by now. The only thing holding me back is self-knowledge that my towngame without being able to rely on solid mechanic discussion is rather hit and miss.

Yes, but this self-awareness allows you to know you are wrong, and re-evaluate your position mid-game. Many players lack this, and carry their wrong reads all the way to the loss.

[PeregrineV]

And PV, if you're scum, you gotta break the town wall somewhere. The science thing is null, and you know it. The choices made were more about playstyle than alignment. The proper scum response was to oppose whichever funding (or lack there of) would help town. So I stipulate scum should have wanted to deny science but that's because I know I am town.

Saying Yuri is better than others is not stating Yuri is either town or scum, or if you'd be willing to sheep townreads there. I get the gist that your TRs all SR Yuri, you are not willing to vote there but are not TRing Yuri, which leaves me with you taking no clear stance.

Your response also saying I don't get how you'd be confused, also makes me feel like I am correct in asking for a more detailed opinion.

The reads we disagree on yes. Yet, Drixx is one of two TR reads we both have.

This whole post doesn't really make sense to me. Try putting a single topic in a single post.

The Yuri thing I do get. I find their play scummy. But, they could be town, and are active, which means they can be read. But yes, their activity mostly involves not wanting to be outted and some sort of self-defense, which I do not like. I am not voting them now because there is still time in the day, and I want to see where it goes. When the time comes, if they have not improved their posting to where I no longer find them scummy, then I'll probably vote them. Conversely, if they devolve in posting, I might vote them sooner.
Kind of standard read gathering techniques.

Yeah, this still isn't taking a position but reeks of let me see if A and N gets more town support.

I think you're "find and replace" is broken.....

[PeregrineV]

In the interest of politeness, I have nothing to say at this point.

[PeregrineV]

I also have an extremely hard time seeing how it's not Vecna/LUV/Frogger/Spiffeh/Yuri.

Literally never post again

I'm being polite- you should be too.

[PeregrineV]

Why do people SR me again?

-Nebby

Because you ask this question when it doesn't seem relevant?

[PeregrineV]

I also have an extremely hard time seeing how it's not Vecna/LUV/Frogger/Spiffeh/Yuri.

Literally never post again

I'm being polite- you should be too.

oh grow a pair and say something mean pere come on you can do it free shot

No. I think making associative relationships between players of unknown alignments is disingenuous bordering on scummy, but I'm pretty sure I've said that before.

And that's not even at you, just in general.

[PeregrineV]

I also have an extremely hard time seeing how it's not Vecna/LUV/Frogger/Spiffeh/Yuri.

Literally never post again

I'm being polite- you should be too.

oh grow a pair and say something mean pere come on you can do it free shot

This is the type of post I struggle with and irks me out on both you AND PV.

Math has unconventional reads and thinking but what does beating on them accomplish? This looks like you and PerV doing good cop bad cop.

To your wall post.

I said I was being polite. I think we would all prefer it at this point in time.

[PeregrineV]

I know you do plan and data that's your thing when I said "oh that's not a case haha" It was more me saying it was weak it wasn't trying to discredit that you made it it just was weak to me does that mean I'm shading you? That's not what my goal was I also don't mind people disagreeing with things I do that's how you get talk going I also sometimes don't mind people scumreading me aslong as there logic to me makes sense and I can be like "Oh I see what you mean with this" but the way you seem to be scumreading me is baffling to me because what you point out as "shade" in my eyes is me just playing the game
Are you asking me to look for people that are buddying or me buddying people?
~Maria

Disagreeing is one thing. I disagreed with you and Spiffeh on the method, but I never accused you of being fake. The weak case thing was a dig at me. I wasn't about to put myself above the rest of town given the chouce was preference. You laughing at my efforts just felt like a dig. Combine that with random SRs that go nowhere...it suggests your motivation is to shade town, not find scum. I am giving you a chance to resolve those. Follow through. Sort. Don't just say this is bad. Put it together.

I want you to look for people buddying you.

Can town buddy town?

[PeregrineV]

I also have an extremely hard time seeing how it's not Vecna/LUV/Frogger/Spiffeh/Yuri.

Literally never post again

I'm being polite- you should be too.

oh grow a pair and say something mean pere come on you can do it free shot

This is the type of post I struggle with and irks me out on both you AND PV.

Math has unconventional reads and thinking but what does beating on them accomplish? This looks like you and PerV doing good cop bad cop.

To your wall post.

I didn't know I was addressing anything in that post what do you think I am? He just said he was being polite so I told him to be mean a bit I didn't know it was some form of attack?

Read the context. Try again.

PV has nothing nice to say about Math. (Trying to play nice guy angle and build town cred). You are encouraging him to Anger Math, which would make them a bigger distraction and do nothing useful.

Seriously? Where have I said anything not nice about Math? Or you, for that matter?

[PeregrineV]

I know you do plan and data that's your thing when I said "oh that's not a case haha" It was more me saying it was weak it wasn't trying to discredit that you made it it just was weak to me does that mean I'm shading you? That's not what my goal was I also don't mind people disagreeing with things I do that's how you get talk going I also sometimes don't mind people scumreading me aslong as there logic to me makes sense and I can be like "Oh I see what you mean with this" but the way you seem to be scumreading me is baffling to me because what you point out as "shade" in my eyes is me just playing the game
Are you asking me to look for people that are buddying or me buddying people?
~Maria

Disagreeing is one thing. I disagreed with you and Spiffeh on the method, but I never accused you of being fake. The weak case thing was a dig at me. I wasn't about to put myself above the rest of town given the chouce was preference. You laughing at my efforts just felt like a dig. Combine that with random SRs that go nowhere...it suggests your motivation is to shade town, not find scum. I am giving you a chance to resolve those. Follow through. Sort. Don't just say this is bad. Put it together.

I want you to look for people buddying you.

Can town buddy town?

Yes. First step is documenting. Then look at why.

Math has trouble distinguishing town buddying from scum buddying, so frequently SRs townblocks.

Why send Sondham to look for buddying in the resolution phase?

Do you identify any buddying of yourself (either you or Math) so far this game?

How do you determine if their motivation is town or scum in doing so?

[PeregrineV]

Math we are going to have words after this game.

Let the evidence drive the narrative. Don't let a personal narrative you have drive the way you perceive the evidence.

I tell my writers that all the time. Do not manipulate the data to fit a preconceived opinion of yours. Let the data speak for itself, because it will drive the story.

I expect you will NOT be called on for coaching, but let's see.

[PeregrineV]

Focus on the now. Each day we will have new wonders.

Vote: None

[PeregrineV]

Fro99er not being protected was p. dumb but w/e

Whatever, he played really stupidly. If he stuck with Vecna, we would have lynched scum.

I wasn't around the weekend, but why the superlate entrance?

If I go back and read your day1, what will I find?

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: Natural

You are seriously suggesting we play the entire game as vanilla because scum could go back and get a prior power.

What's next? Hey guys how about we deny Town the power to vote b/c scums could hammer a townie?

This is seriously getting old.

~~Math

You know that vanilla do the most scumhunting, right?

[PeregrineV]

I see players saying "wow cultural is horrible", "natural is bad, get none", tbh I don't really understand what's going on.

You voted for scum to know what wonders were already built, and for town to find out the next phase.

[PeregrineV]

Cultural seems like itll be very usefull for scum come lategame. Not sure if theres a lot of town benefit.

Natural seems like it might make some people try to build wonders that arent even there anymore.

Wish there was an option for both.

The two seperately both seem bad.

Focus on the now.

Plus, aside from wonders each day, we will apparently have resolutions each day.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: Natural

You are seriously suggesting we play the entire game as vanilla because scum could go back and get a prior power.

What's next? Hey guys how about we deny Town the power to vote b/c scums could hammer a townie?

This is seriously getting old.

~~Math

You know that vanilla do the most scumhunting, right?

Meh. PR is not alignment of amount of scumhunting to me.

Denying Town tools doesn't make Town inherently better.

~~Math

How is town being denied anything?

[PeregrineV]

Natural seems like it might make some people try to build wonders that arent even there anymore.

Aren't we given the chance to try each night to build a wonder?

Yes.

[PeregrineV]

So what if scum know what pr's/wonders are built what's the big deal if we know what were built and it becomes public less room for fake claims.

because if scum try to claim something built by town, town can counterclaim.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: Natural

You are seriously suggesting we play the entire game as vanilla because scum could go back and get a prior power.

What's next? Hey guys how about we deny Town the power to vote b/c scums could hammer a townie?

This is seriously getting old.

~~Math

You know that vanilla do the most scumhunting, right?

Meh. PR is not alignment of amount of scumhunting to me.

Denying Town tools doesn't make Town inherently better.

~~Math

How is town being denied anything?

Arts -- Denied who knows what in lynch powers
Sciences -- Ability to plan wonders
Natural -- Ability to grab old unbuilt wonder after mass claim that could help us break the game or if someone lied about picking one up.
Cultural -- Meh not seeing too much use in that.

Repeatedly voting none disregards what Town can do.
We win when we are positive and think we CAN do things.

~~Math

For each ask these quesitons.

1. How does this help town?
2. How does this help scum?
3. Does this help scum MORE than it helps town?

If the answer to 3 is yes, then you vote NONE, no matter what the answer to #1 is.

[PeregrineV]

Also scum reading me is still unacceptable no matter what any of you say

Not completely buying that I'm town is one thing, outright scum reading me is just stupid and makes you bad.

Just because my main push flips town doesn't make me scum. Unfortunately it's been happening to me often, recently.

[PeregrineV]

For each ask these quesitons.1. How does this help town?2. How does this help scum?3. Does this help scum MORE than it helps town?If the answer to 3 is yes, then you vote NONE, no matter what the answer to #1 is.

Exactly.

Theory spam. Having a failsafe at the end of the game for non chosen wonders is good. Culture is bad. Letting scum know what PRs are in play...why?

Natural wins.

What failsafe?

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: Natural

You are seriously suggesting we play the entire game as vanilla because scum could go back and get a prior power.

What's next? Hey guys how about we deny Town the power to vote b/c scums could hammer a townie?

This is seriously getting old.

~~Math

You know that vanilla do the most scumhunting, right?

Meh. PR is not alignment of amount of scumhunting to me.

Denying Town tools doesn't make Town inherently better.

~~Math

How is town being denied anything?

Arts -- Denied who knows what in lynch powers
Sciences -- Ability to plan wonders
Natural -- Ability to grab old unbuilt wonder after mass claim that could help us break the game or if someone lied about picking one up.
Cultural -- Meh not seeing too much use in that.

Repeatedly voting none disregards what Town can do.
We win when we are positive and think we CAN do things.

~~Math

For each ask these quesitons.

1. How does this help town?
2. How does this help scum?
3. Does this help scum MORE than it helps town?

If the answer to 3 is yes, then you vote NONE, no matter what the answer to #1 is.

1) How do PRs help Town? Is this a serious question?
2) Town coordination (but not group think) is how Town wins! Town blocks = group think Town collaboration = wins
Beeboy lynch group think due to apathy

Planning and transparency always help Town more.

The two none votes IMHO are ridiculous and anything would be better than none.

~~Math

1. Games with town PRs have been won by scum in the past, so, logically, town PRs do not make or break a game by their mere existence
2. Except the only people who know if a townblock is 100% town is the scumteam. Also, games with Masons, the built-in townblocks of the game, have been won by scum. So, logically, townblocks do not make or break a game by their mere existence.
3. I doubt it was apathy that lynched beeboy 9 days prior to the deadline. 43% of the day was done, so pretty sure it was activity not apathy.

No. That's why most games will punish town for masslclaiming day1. Transparency is tactical.

Noted.

[PeregrineV]

For each ask these quesitons.1. How does this help town?2. How does this help scum?3. Does this help scum MORE than it helps town?If the answer to 3 is yes, then you vote NONE, no matter what the answer to #1 is.

Exactly.

Theory spam. Having a failsafe at the end of the game for non chosen wonders is good. Culture is bad. Letting scum know what PRs are in play...why?

Natural wins.

What failsafe?

Let's say random setup for sake of argument

We reach 6 player mylo.

Two unknown slots, each is vanilla
Neopolitan in unclaimed PRs but was middle ages.
We grab Neopolitan and they target each other. Only one gets the neopolitan. They get a result.

If town really needs a roleblocker. We get it.

Everyone should still build today's wonders. It's endgame utility.

If you were on the scumteam and coordinated all their actions, what would scum have built last night? Assume you got whatever you wanted built by your team.

[PeregrineV]

Why the fuck would town agree to give it to Drixx of all people? He was inactive and didn't do anything
~Maria

Did you build it?

[PeregrineV]

Nero Cain
The DEO
Caesar Wills It
Lil Uzi Vert
Vecna
davesaz
Maxous
Sondam
NoticeMeSenpai

Yeah, how about no. This is an awkward as fuck chainsaw of ABR?

Why not lynch everyone who thought beeboy was town?

Is there someone on his wagon that thought he was town?

Back parts did. I did and I would have hammered it. It was an EoD we want the fuck out of here wagon that was diverted away from ABR.

No.

[PeregrineV]

Reading now.

[PeregrineV]

You think I'm scum because I claimed PR on D1 LOL

Yes we caught you slipping Day 1. Credit to frogger may his soul RIP.

What post was this?

[PeregrineV]

Mainly where he offered to pick up Pyramids and be copped and treestumped and his replace out.

Drixx's value is late game if he is Town.

And he tried to leverage that.

He also tried to fight for what he believed in the arts resolution point.

~~Math

Not good enough.

Answer the question why scum would do that without day chat to plan for contingencies.

~~Math

I don't get this question. Daychat was available as a wonder day1.

[PeregrineV]

I'm going to listen to the guy with a best town performance scummy.

lol

[PeregrineV]

At the bottom of page 188.

Cultural brings town's knowledge at start of next day up to match what scum can know already at beginning of night by being able to share what bids they made that failed. The cost of that increased knowledge is scum knowing at beginning of night which wonders were built in bids that scum never tried. Scum get a 1 phase advantage in timing but the knowledge they get is not much more than what they could already have. Overall town's increase is higher than scum's increase. Later game it reduces the usefulness of fakeclaiming vanilla. It also eliminates the ability of scum to fakeclaim an unbuilt to appear town.

This will probably be moot in the 19 pages I haven't read yet, but cultural has more positive utility than people are giving it credit for.

And pedit: half a page while I typed that.

As scum buy wonders, they will be unable to bid on future wonders, thereby not really being able to "know already at beginning of night" what wonders were built.
Plus, if they bid on something that can't help them and actually won it, they would basically weaken themselves. So not sure your argument holds up.

Later game anyone who is still vanilla can be made to explain why.

[PeregrineV]

Accept that I'm town. Let Mathblade scumhunt. Play like Mastin does, as an advisor who keeps her peace in the thread. Then we can get on with this game.

No, because I didn't join to play advisor. I did not join to be told to sit down and shut up.

You'd vig me if you really thought I was wrong. Just shoot me, then you can wreck the town anyway.

Or, you could have just claimed anything else to try to draw the NK, then copped someone.

[PeregrineV]

You think I'm scum because I claimed PR on D1 LOL

Yes we caught you slipping Day 1. Credit to frogger may his soul RIP.

What post was this?

Scum will night kill me because they will never be able to get me lynched and I had soft a PR a while back.

Why are you saying you softed?.

LOOOOOOOOOOOL

WHO SOFTS IN THIS GAME

Yeah, not sure that's really a slip. Going to finish reading first.

[PeregrineV]

Mainly where he offered to pick up Pyramids and be copped and treestumped and his replace out.

Drixx's value is late game if he is Town.

And he tried to leverage that.

He also tried to fight for what he believed in the arts resolution point.

~~Math

Answer the question why scum would do that without day chat to plan for contingencies.

~~Math

I don't get this question. Daychat was available as a wonder day1.

The claim was made D1. Wonders get built EoD per first post.

They would have had no way to communicate during D1 which is my point.

~~Math

It was why we took Stonehenge in the first place.
Not good enough.

Why would scum offer to pick up the treestump when they could not not use daychat day1?

Would this be the sum of the question? Because I still don't get how this would make DrixxDave town.

[PeregrineV]

PV were you able to find my answer?

Assuming you are not Pyramids?

~~Math

Still don't get it. See 5360.

[PeregrineV]

So, going post digging now.

[PeregrineV]

All of these Wonders just suck to be honest. Modern Era should give us better ones.

My other two scum games on my wiki are more indicative of how I play scum.

@A&N: These Wonders suck. Wait for the Modern Era!

@A&N: Trust me, it has something better! I can't say anymore since I'll probably get modkilled.

Every era will probably have better Wonders then this one.

Modern Era will probably bring more complex and unique roles that could potentially help with alignment sorting.

Stuff like thismakes it seem like Lil Uzi knew better wonders were coming. Part of that as supposition makes sense. Statment of it as fact does not.

But, I did not want to lynch him day1 because I felt that if he were scum and knew the next days wonders, he wouldn't discourage town from buying them, what with better ones coming.

Mod's answer did not confirm that all players were vanilla, because if so, the most efficient answer would be "Yes".

But, since it is now day2, I want to delve more into this.

[PeregrineV]

Scum would have to have shot themselves after getting Pyramids if it was Drixx.

Anyone who got Stonehenge was going to be on Drixx.

Not really. I wouldn't, and I doubt I'm the only one.

Wonders get built end of D1.

Daychat wouldn't exist til today.

As scum Drixx would commit to killing himself the first day regardless of what happened in thread to avoid the cop.

There is no cop unless the person getting the deathcop role was killed.
Daychat would not be needed for scum to decide what wonders to build.

but he would still be copped from Stonehenge.

No. That would make a double assumption that requires 2 other actions take place first. I think scum Drixx could take that chance and be totally safe.

Drixx just doesn't make that play. It is scum suicide.

@A&N -- You the pyramids? Kinda doubt it but still gotta ask.

~~Math

I think it's not really much of a risk.

[PeregrineV]

Spif who does have authority to you?
Also PV where you at with reads?
-Nebby

Nowhere. I want to discuss the Lil Uzi thing.

Also a Yuri thing. But I'll be damned if I'm going to divide focus when we have enough of that already.

[PeregrineV]

All of these Wonders just suck to be honest. Modern Era should give us better ones.

My other two scum games on my wiki are more indicative of how I play scum.

@A&N: These Wonders suck. Wait for the Modern Era!

@A&N: Trust me, it has something better! I can't say anymore since I'll probably get modkilled.

Every era will probably have better Wonders then this one.

Modern Era will probably bring more complex and unique roles that could potentially help with alignment sorting.

Stuff like thismakes it seem like Lil Uzi knew better wonders were coming. Part of that as supposition makes sense. Statment of it as fact does not.

But, I did not want to lynch him day1 because I felt that if he were scum and knew the next days wonders, he wouldn't discourage town from buying them, what with better ones coming.

Mod's answer did not confirm that all players were vanilla, because if so, the most efficient answer would be "Yes".

But, since it is now day2, I want to delve more into this.

Yay someone else sees LUV possible scum based on beginning of day posting.
He IMHO is trying to make sure everyone piles on a given era.

~~Math

This answer does not tell me your opinion of this posting nor your opinion of my thoughts on the posting. Nor the implied question(s).

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: Leonshade

I liked this vote yesterday. But, today Leon is doing more and looks to be trying to figure people out.

Who else you got?

[PeregrineV]

Kyouko and Elbirn are also alternatives to Caesar.

Caesar #2 is having carnal relations with his wife. If he ever finishes and can post shit like he did in a timely manner (2-3 times a day), then I'll tolerate his Caesar #1 RPing.

Otherwise, he can go today.

What are your thoughts on 5381?

[PeregrineV]

PV you Pyramids?

PV I could hug you. You has my reads and I am not entirely mad.

~~Math

No, i'm the doctor and I protected Spiffeh, becasue he bleeds green.

What are your thoughts on the content I posted in 5381?

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: Leonshade

I liked this vote yesterday. But, today Leon is doing more and looks to be trying to figure people out.

Who else you got?

Who have YOU got?

Please read and comment on 5381.

[PeregrineV]

ABR /PV Are you Pyramids?

~~Math

I neighborized ABR last night. He said he's not scum. I think he is telling the truth.

[PeregrineV]

carnal relations with his wife.

What?

Did you not read his post?

[PeregrineV]

Math for the last time, I'm town.

And can we stop speculating about the Wonders?

Actually, 5381 is meant mostly for you. You were very talkative about them yesterday.

[PeregrineV]

ABR /PV Are you Pyramids?

~~Math

Never fucking join a game with me again

Do you look to see who is in a game before you join? I stopped doing that when I didn't recognize half the names anyway.

[PeregrineV]

PV you Pyramids?

PV I could hug you. You has my reads and I am not entirely mad.

~~Math

No, i'm the doctor and I protected Spiffeh, becasue he bleeds green.

What are your thoughts on the content I posted in 5381?

PEREGRINE WHAT THE FUCK

WHY WOULD YOU FUCKING CLAIM

If I massclaim on day2, we can get to scumhunting.

[PeregrineV]

Is that a real claim PV?

No, I took Zeus and the moment I'm shot, DEO is out of here with me.

(Sorry Math, Titus, but you are very much pulling people's focus.)

[PeregrineV]

Ahh, PV's trolling, carry on.

Nah, just trying to give the audience what they want (Caesar gets it) (Gets IT!!, Get it? Cause he's getting it on right now!) so we can get back to figuring things out.

[PeregrineV]

Math for the last time, I'm town.

And can we stop speculating about the Wonders?

Actually, 5381 is meant mostly for you. You were very talkative about them yesterday.

Yes but I didn't claim like you and The DEO just did. I just stressed why they suck and why we should wait.

You were fairly adamant about the whole thing. So much so I townread the whole crumbing thing and tried to get you to stop crumbing by giving you a homework assignment (520).

So now, why were you so much pushing those wonders as bad and todays as better?

[PeregrineV]

Well there is only one good Wonder this era again and if you're town you should let someone who likes to figure out setups takd it.

Do share. Why are 4 out of 5 dentists against 4 out of 5 wonders?

And why is Oracle the best for town?

[PeregrineV]

Is that a real claim PV?

No, I took Zeus and the moment I'm shot, DEO is out of here with me.

(Sorry Math, Titus, but you are very much pulling people's focus.)

That is fine.

Now all we need is Pyramids to claim so we have use of Stonehenge.

~~Math

I'm Pyramids. Cop me.

[PeregrineV]

Stop claiming

Too late. Although DEO is just trying to draw the NK, since I took Stonehenge too.

[PeregrineV]

PV why aren't you voting LUV if you scumread him? Who else do you scumread?

C'mon ABR. Where do you get I'm scumreading Uzi from?

[PeregrineV]

Math for the last time, I'm town.

And can we stop speculating about the Wonders?

Actually, 5381 is meant mostly for you. You were very talkative about them yesterday.

Yes but I didn't claim like you and The DEO just did. I just stressed why they suck and why we should wait.

You were fairly adamant about the whole thing. So much so I townread the whole crumbing thing and tried to get you to stop crumbing by giving you a homework assignment (520).

So now, why were you so much pushing those wonders as bad and todays as better?

I'm not pushing today's as better. I'm just advocating for safe picks or picks that have no downside for town like Pyramids or The Orcale. As to why I said the Wonders will be better as time goes on, it is just common sense.

Hmmm. I've played games with roles that come out as the game progresses. "better as time goes on" is not a thing.

But, based on your opinion of the day1 wonders, which ones did scum take?

[PeregrineV]

Well there is only one good Wonder this era again and if you're town you should let someone who likes to figure out setups takd it.

Do share. Why are 4 out of 5 dentists against 4 out of 5 wonders?

And why is Oracle the best for town?

Orcale allows us to clear up a slip from earlier and may help with the priority thing.

Not tracking slips, but didn't think about priority.

What are some questions that Oracle should ask to help catch scum?

[PeregrineV]

Stop claiming

Too late. Although DEO is just trying to draw the NK, since I took Stonehenge too.

PV why aren't you voting LUV if you scumread him? Who else do you scumread?

C'mon ABR. Where do you get I'm scumreading Uzi from?

Who do you scumread?

Not sure yet.

Who do you want to lynch?

Let's see. Day2?

Probably any of these at this exact point in time.

Yuri
Elbirn
Brian Skies who replaced Drixx
ssbm_Kyouko*
davesaz who replaced ooba*
Maxous
Sondam (MariaR & gerryoat)
NoticeMeSenpai (JaeReed & mastina)

[PeregrineV]

Math for the last time, I'm town.

And can we stop speculating about the Wonders?

Actually, 5381 is meant mostly for you. You were very talkative about them yesterday.

Yes but I didn't claim like you and The DEO just did. I just stressed why they suck and why we should wait.

You were fairly adamant about the whole thing. So much so I townread the whole crumbing thing and tried to get you to stop crumbing by giving you a homework assignment (520).

So now, why were you so much pushing those wonders as bad and todays as better?

I'm not pushing today's as better. I'm just advocating for safe picks or picks that have no downside for town like Pyramids or The Orcale. As to why I said the Wonders will be better as time goes on, it is just common sense.

Hmmm. I've played games with roles that come out as the game progresses. "better as time goes on" is not a thing.

But, based on your opinion of the day1 wonders, which ones did scum take?

The Great Lighthouse.

Based on 228, every day1 wonder was great for scum. If that is your belief, then which ones did they take?

[PeregrineV]

Well there is only one good Wonder this era again and if you're town you should let someone who likes to figure out setups takd it.

Do share. Why are 4 out of 5 dentists against 4 out of 5 wonders?

And why is Oracle the best for town?

Orcale allows us to clear up a slip from earlier and may help with the priority thing.

Not tracking slips, but didn't think about priority.

What are some questions that Oracle should ask to help catch scum?

In this setup not many. I don't wanna say the ones we can ask since it'll just ruin what I'm getting at.

Well, whoever gets it as town can use the questions you post and ask them, scum won't bother.

[PeregrineV]

The Oracle feels like the mostest useless.

If the right question is asked it could help catch scum. Even if it only catches one, it would be worth it.

[PeregrineV]

If Kyouko would town it up I would suggest he take it. That's all I'm going to say for now.

then I'd like to hear from him on this.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: PeregrineV

Don't like my lynch list?

[PeregrineV]

Can we just get back to lynching ABR?

Probably not today, unless you have a super persuasive reason. Like documented.

[PeregrineV]

I have no idea what's even going on anymore.
I just.
Don't
-Nebby

Trying to figure out if UZI is town. Did you read 5381?

[PeregrineV]

Each night, you may ask the moderator a yes/no question about the setup as it existed before the game began.

aka doesn't include asking someone's alignment.

so you think before players joined?

what would be the point of that?

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: PeregrineV

Don't like my lynch list?

Your "list" is a regurgitation of the bottom posters in activity excluding yourself.

Hard to get reads when people don't post, and scum don't want to be read.

So, yes, I'd lynch them if day ended now.

And I'm in the top 12, and can pretty easily break the top 3, if that's important to catching scum.

[PeregrineV]

Yeah PV I did.
I think LUV is town.

Do you think they knew the Classical Wonders on day1?

[PeregrineV]

Yeah PV I did.
I think LUV is town.

Do you think they knew the Classical Wonders on day1?

Wait, link it.

5381

[PeregrineV]

Can we just lynch ABR please?

Probably not today, unless you have a super persuasive reason. Like documented.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: PeregrineV

Don't like my lynch list?

Your "list" is a regurgitation of the bottom posters in activity excluding yourself.

Hard to get reads when people don't post, and scum don't want to be read.

So, yes, I'd lynch them if day ended now.

And I'm in the top 12, and can pretty easily break the top 3, if that's important to catching scum.

It's kind of amazing how you don't suspect any of the active players with hundreds of posts. We're all town to you apparently?

I've quoted my own post 5 times since making it, so I'm not going to break down every person and how I feel about them for it to be totally unread.

You got someone you want me to address, tell me who. How you feel and why gets you even more feedback about them.

[PeregrineV]

Pere join the wagon

lol

[PeregrineV]

PV it's possible.
Like they voted for None > Science
and they didn't even consider Arts.
Hell I wouldn't even be surprised if they knew the wonders that Arts would have provided as well.
-Nebby

If they did know, do you think that would more likely make them town or scum?

[PeregrineV]

I've quoted my own post 5 times since making it, so I'm not going to break down every person and how I feel about them for it to be totally unread.You got someone you want me to address, tell me who. How you feel and why gets you even more feedback about them.

LUV, Vecna, A+N, Caesar.

Lil Uzi- I'm trying to sort now. I townread them for the perceived crumbing from day1, and read most of their posts in that light. Now, I want to discuss the reason why I tonwread them, and so far it's been kind of a flat response. So far, based on posting without that bias, I have them leaning town.

Vecna- Pointing out the idiocy of Science on day1 came across as town to me. Not a fan of the excessive shitposting, but since he's not the only guilty party, have to take that in stride. Had some similar townreads first day, and worked with Frogger. I see some sort of connection with [REDACTED], but until I determine it's source, not using it for a read. All said, leaning town here too.

Caesar- Covered in 5420.

Akane- Didn't like their Science vote, nor their appearing to have inside knowledge about priority, nor calling out Sondham when Sondham appeared to try and sort DEO. But they did appear to try and sort Sodham, so that is in their favor. Seem overly concerned with being scumread, but maybe that's the new normal too. Overall, still kind of null on the slot despite the number of posts.

[PeregrineV]

PV, I think thinking about it will just cause a headache.
Scum!LUV could have been directing his scumteam to not build any wonders but I just don't know.
-Nebby

So what is the likelihood he was doing that?

[PeregrineV]

@mod: Even though this is implied in the first post with antitown factions only have night chat....

Can you please confirm every player starts off as Vanilla?

There are no roles inherent to any slots in this game.

Mod's answer did not confirm that all players were vanilla, because if so, the most efficient answer would be "Yes".

For example, there is no NK wonder, yet Frogger died.

[PeregrineV]

Sondam you down to lynch Caesar?

Ehhhhhhhh

Let's do it. It will be better for everyone.

Did you guys not get your daychat or something?

Probably not.

Resolution Vote 2.05

(Day 2 Final)

Cultural (3):

Sondam, Caesar Wills It, Yuri

Natural (10):

Maxous, The DEO, Akane and Nebby, Spiffeh, Drixx, Albert B. Rampage, Vecna, Creature, Leonshade, NoticeMeSenpai

None (2):

PeregrineV, Lil Uzi Vert

Not Voting (4):

Elbirn, ssbm_Kyouko, ooba, Nero Cain

With 19 players alive, it takes 10 to pass a resolution by majority.
Resolution deadline is in (expired on 2017-02-21 16:35:13), at which point the resolution will be decided via plurality.

Natural Heritage Sites has passed!

Build requests for wonders from the Ancient Era may be submitted via PM.

[PeregrineV]

A factional kill doesn't make a mafia goon not vanilla.

So a factional ability would not be an inherent role?

[PeregrineV]

...
...
...
PV what do you make of Notice v LUV?
Ya know, when Notice dumbtelled?
-Nebby

I don't have pay per view, and refuse to shell out $40 anyway.

Where is this epic battle?

[PeregrineV]

I'm saying a factional ability doesn't change the fact that everyone started off powerless. Unless you're saying being able to kill is a power.

I'm saying that the mod saying"There are no roles inherent to any slots in this game." does not say that factional powers do not currently exist, an example of which was the NK.

[PeregrineV]

No people need to vote ABR and opt to investigate lurkers.

5500

[PeregrineV]

I'm not the problem here. The problem is that no matter who's side any of us take between your epic internal hydra battle, it does nothing because the one head will undo everything the other head does.

You are the problem. Math was actually and still is willing to learn why they are viewed as crazy by most of the town. You on the other hand are on a Titus sucks kick that you brought into this game even after violating our agreement of not playing together rather than I don't know PMing me to say hey I want to play a large. You're just taking oppositional stances to me, but you can't do that if I'm in a pine box. Tomorrow, you'll work with all my townreads, lynch scum and then go gee it was all my idea.

I'm ok with that because I want Mafia to be fun, and it won't be with your abusive attitude and me in the same game, and I took every other angle.

Just a suggestion, hydra a newbie game or Mini Normal first.....

[PeregrineV]

I'm saying a factional ability doesn't change the fact that everyone started off powerless. Unless you're saying being able to kill is a power.

I'm saying that the mod saying"There are no roles inherent to any slots in this game." does not say that factional powers do not currently exist, an example of which was the NK.

So what does that have to do with me fake claiming? Why would scum being able to know what Wonders each Era bring be a factional power?

EBWOP.

Because if it were, then it makes more sense why the whole Science Resolution is even an option. If scum already have the knowledge, the Science thing gives it to town also.

[PeregrineV]

PV can you get back to me on 5568?
-Nebby

[PeregrineV]

...
...
...
PV what do you make of Notice v LUV?
Ya know, when Notice dumbtelled?
-Nebby

I have to go read it. I was around, but if I remember right, it was JaeReed saying something a certain way that Uzi said was scummy.

Didn't move me one way or another at the time, but willing to reread it.

[PeregrineV]

slots that haven't talked about it at all

What is it you want talked about?

[PeregrineV]

Hi everyone I love <3

UNVOTE:

You replaced into a very town slot. Please continue his legacy.

[PeregrineV]

Albert B. Rampage (6): Lil Uzi Vert, Leonshade, Mathblade, nancy, Vecna, Akane and Nebby
Vecna (5): Caesar Wills It, Yuri, Nero Cain, Albert B. Rampage, Elbirn

Most compelling case seen so far:

Why were you voting for Yuri day 1 based on some contrived made up bullshit that was tangentially related to notice...instead of just voting notice

Which is almost as much a defense of Yuri more than a case on Vecna.

Not impressed.

[PeregrineV]

It's a really weird bit of mental gymnastics to justify moving off of one wagon onto another, while still claiming to scumread the first. Couple this with my scumread on notice and a townread on Yuri and the whole thing stinks like scum distancing from a buddy while voting town. Scum 101.

Really? Changing your vote from one scumread to another requires a "weird bit of mental gymnastics"?

[PeregrineV]

TR Math, LUV, Caesar, Aslan hydra, Fro99er

5864 is a scumclaim

Yuri likely scum

SR Vecna, ABR, Leonshade, ssbm, Nero

Talk with me about possible
Yuri+Vecna+ABR+Elbrin+LUv team

Why do you TR LUV

I scumread LUV hard.

I think Vecna+ABR scum but that bus is mighty hard for people to swallow. If either are wrong though it is probably Vecna and ABR scum.

If LUV is scum then he's been distancing and bussing hard all game - or ABR isn't scum. I know you don't like VCA so go through his ISO and look at who he pushes.

Elbrin is Town so that doesn't work for me. Vecna could be scum here but I don't really feel like eating the AtE from the slot right now so I'm not voting it. I don't have a solid read there anyway. Good chance that Yuri is scum based off wagon interactions. I could potentially see LUV/ABR/Vecna scum that are just going full steam ahead bus mode but that's just idle speculation tbh.

I don't know who you are but since you seem to know something about me. I love VCA. I just think how most people use it is crap. I did some earlier actually. VCA is only useful during reflection after periods of activity which have certain forced interactions. Also the more info you have the better theygenerally can be.

VCA to me seems to indicate all three? Can you show me how you did yours? Like between that none resolution and this one seems kinda bad.

Like I really think ABR/LUV/Vecna/Yuri is a thing.

Pretend you are in bizarro world and 100% wrong on your scumteam.

Who else do you think is scum?
Akane and Nebby
Nero Cain
Leonshade
Elbirn
Creature
Brian Skies
Caesar Wills It
ssbm_Kyouko
davesaz
Maxous
Sondam
NoticeMeSenpai

[PeregrineV]

Dave/SSBM/Creature/Elbrin can't get the other one. Rest are hard Town reads.

You have all the hydras and former hydras as hard townreads.

[PeregrineV]

It's a really weird bit of mental gymnastics to justify moving off of one wagon onto another, while still claiming to scumread the first. Couple this with my scumread on notice and a townread on Yuri and the whole thing stinks like scum distancing from a buddy while voting town. Scum 101.

Really? Changing your vote from one scumread to another requires a "weird bit of mental gymnastics"?

Dude that's not the point. No, not even that, it's just wrong.

Here's my understanding of the events:

Vecna was voting for notice for faking a townslip

Yuri had some comment about the townslip, can't recall specifics

Vecna then pushed Yuri's comments as being indicative of a relationship with notice, which made no earthly sense (this is the mental gymnastics part), and then voted for yuri.

Why would you....not just vote for the actual scumread and not someone who is conditional based on that scumread.

And unless I've missed something he's still dead set on notice being scum but he won't vote there.

Easy. If notice was NOT faking the townslip, but did actually townslip, then Yuri could be scum trying to whiteknight Notice.

Not sure on any Vecna-Notice relationship, or lack thereof.

[PeregrineV]

Easy. If notice was NOT faking the townslip, but did actually townslip, then Yuri could be scum trying to whiteknight Notice.

Not sure on any Vecna-Notice relationship, or lack thereof.

That could be a good point, but it's not the point that he made, unless I'm hilariously confused.

What I recall from it was vecna saying that yuri thought of the example of notice town slipping "too quickly" and that this indicates he had notice on the brain and that this meant they had an existing relationship and were therefore scum

Ok, yeah, I remember that.

Didn't find it compelling then, don't find it compelling now.

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV has been prodded.

Sorry. But good news, I'm here now, for a while.

Will go read.

[PeregrineV]

What is it you want talked about?

how you feel about A+N




I'm also really surprised that Max has been mum on my A+N hate given that he was scum reading them d1 so idk why he's avoiding discussing them.

Nothing one way or another.

[PeregrineV]

Easy. If notice was NOT faking the townslip, but did actually townslip, then Yuri could be scum trying to whiteknight Notice.

Not sure on any Vecna-Notice relationship, or lack thereof.

That could be a good point, but it's not the point that he made, unless I'm hilariously confused.

What I recall from it was vecna saying that yuri thought of the example of notice town slipping "too quickly" and that this indicates he had notice on the brain and that this meant they had an existing relationship and were therefore scum

Ok, yeah, I remember that.

Didn't find it compelling then, don't find it compelling now.

Didn't find it compelling meaning vecna's push?

Cuz it's contrived as fuck

Right. Saying Yuri was thinking about it because scum with Notice, or whatever.

[PeregrineV]

Oh right, thought you had only Dave/SSBM/me/Elbirn as scumreads.

I think that was her response to my quesiton "What if all of your primary scumreads are town?".

[PeregrineV]

im very tired

like idk maybe nebby isnt scum. i thought his read change on me was to go with thw flow but at least it looks like he's thinking about new ideas as they occur and just kind of spitting them out, instead of defending readings by saying he's had them all game

which is also bunk bc the best way to make me less confident in someone is if theyre dont reevaluate their reads

i still think Uzi is town, that thing he pulled w trying for my main would just get him in deep shit if i did get frustrated enough to reveal it. dont see the point as scum at all

Luv is the most obvious town of anyone in this game. How people can scumread him i truely do not see.

@Uzi- Why does Vecna townread you so hard?

[PeregrineV]

Elbrin why did I scumread you again?

You didn't like my Simpsons avatar

But seriously, what are your thoughts of Akane dropping their hard case for your lynch (and thier read on you, apparently)?

[PeregrineV]

My son had an orchestra concert and we went out to dinner after -- and I fell asleep at the computer after getting home. 8 hours and ~15-20 pages later...

New thing to research -- what was the VC when Vecna went nuts? Was there an apparently unstoppable wagon build in progress that disagreed with what Vecna had been pushing before that point? That would be the only possible scum motivation, and a heck of a gamble if scum. I can see town doing it for a very good reason, which I won't go into yet...

My ABR townread is rescinded. What initially looked like righteous indignation at a vendetta now reeks of trying to shake loose of being caught for the wrong reason. The timing (just as a L-1 was reached and a town replacement appeared) and trajectory (saying practically nothing of value before that) does not look town at all.

I continue to think Creature could be scum trying to act town, but it might just be a playstyle thing. I'm willing to listen to townreads for now.
UNVOTE:

pedit: sleep it off please. I don't mean that to be preachy or anything, just worried that clouded mind -> actions you'll regret later.

The wagon was heading towards Beeboy. Ive indicated willingness to vote this slot (and I shall if ABR fails) - BUT I feel we have a way way stronger likelyhood of getting scum by lynching ABR.

I know people dont like to be forced to vote a certain way, or be forced to think about a certain issue - But I fell it had to happen.

And anyone that thinks im scum for it; riddle me this (especially MariaR and Gerry) - Would I ever out myself as scum just to save a teammate? Would I ever put my ass on the line as scum for anyone? Or is my ego too big and do I think if anyone's going to win it for a scumteam it would be scumvecna? Or would I rather happily bus them instead to further my own goals?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ABR has been lurking with only random comments untill last night. UNTILL TITUS KEPT CALLING OUT THAT SHE WANTS ABR LYNCHED.

Then within a short timeframe:
- the slot pretends to want to be replaced
-starts attacking Titus (which I know from personal experience is the easiest way to turn off her rational side and start a pissing contest that is BAD for town)
-starts appealing to everyone in Titus' townblock and influence their vote
-Notices people are getting suspicion so wants to push for Beeboy.
-After I throw down the gauntless, he uses FROGGER's assumption that im scum to agree to a bandwagon - directly trying to divert blame to frogger because he knows ill flip town
-Lies about me not being his townread just before
-Doesnt think about any town-sided reasoning for what im doing, but just claims to sheep Frogger
-Then realizes even if he wins the 1v1 with me, he'll die tomorrow
-Switches back to Beeboy

This is manipulative. There is ZERO townreasoning I can think of for any of this (if im wrong, please -do- enlighten me.

Maybe I shouldve approached this in a different way, but ive noticed several times before in the posting frenzy that 50% of the posts get ignored. Ive literally asked 15-20 questions last night that went unanswered. This was the way to bring attention to my issue.

Math, I directly appeal to you as well. You know that the best way to derail Titus is by personal attacks and by discrediting her work/reads/results. She just goes off on you, and all town will be "silly TvT battle". Ive done it before, its super effective as scum.

ABR - NEEDS - ROPE

To make it easier to find later.

[PeregrineV]

leon/creature/sodam/dave/????? team?

That is not supported by VCA at all Nero.

What was your final conclusion from the VCA you did?

[PeregrineV]

Why react to my vote on you but not Skies and Sodom?

3rd vote- the dreaded scum spot.