Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[The DEO]

First of all -- All of these could have town or scum usages. To deny a resolution simply because it has a way for scum to use it is ridiculous.

1) Sciences if scum get daychat does have the issue Vecna is proposing.
2) Arts scum could get a wonder that helps them vote differently.
3) None denies potential benefits to town because we play off fear.

Instead of looking at what scum COULD do and then trying to avoid that we should be picking the one we believe gives town the best benefit. Because all of them can be made to "look" scummy. But what matters is what is actually protown.

My two cents but I want to talk with Titus head before voting a particular way.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Playing to not lose = stalling, defensive play, playing to avoid a loss.

Playing to win = pro-active, offensive play, playing to advance your win condition.

Scum can manipulate the game in all scenarios. Voting none will slightly hinder scum, but it also won't help town. Scum can strategize with five heads, but we can strategize with fifteen. Maximizing town information is good. Vote Sciences.

Where does the setup say five players? *squints eyes*

Anyway, I am in favor of sciences but it is a personal choice on my part. I like the study of votes and their placement. One player one vote simplifies the game for me.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Sciences helps town optimize for best picks as well.

[The DEO]

I full heartedly disagree. There's already awesome stuff now, and town can coordinate. There's two wonders I would want personally from this stage here. Who said wonders go up in value as time progresses?

For instance, sciences with the neighborizer can coordinate and form a masonry. Sciences with the Stonehenge can publicly cop who takes a scummy role if they die at night. The doctor can heal prime targets for good role acquisition. (If someone says, I am really good at X and wants it, the doctor can keep them alive).

It may not be traditional coordinating and leashing but it still is coordinating.

~Titus

[The DEO]

I dont really see how any of those scenario's improve with sciences?

Let's say a Gunsmith pops in two ages. Let's say a player is known to be really good at Gunsmith . The doctor keeps that player alive.

The neighborizer can neighborize likely town VTs and discuss their abilities and plan out which one they go for on both days or hold until a later option comes up.

Stonehenge can park its flip on someone scummy, particularly if they say they want town power in the next age.

Now, did the setup confirm 5 scum and I missed it or did Leon slip or option 3?

~Titus

VOTE: Science

[The DEO]

I missed that Leon. Vecna did say that first. So my question remains though but is Vecna slipping or something else?

[The DEO]

@Titus I refuse to go another game coordinating night actions unnecessarily after The Thing Mafia. The Thing was different in that everyone's role was public knowledge so it made sense to coordinate night actions and even then, scum had a pretty easy time slipping through the cracks because of every night action being public.

What you're suggesting gives scum a roadmap as to how to proceed during the night JUST like it did in that game.

I still have PTSD
~Maria

Well, that's an issue and if you feel that way, I don't think my words will stop you. It hinders my towngame to have less information, so that is why I said it is a personal choice. I still feel town coordinate better than scum if we keep asking the why factor, something that was missed in The Thing after we died.

That being said, anyone who makes an argument about scum can coordinate too is *side eye*. Of course scum can, but that reeks more of denying info to town boogeyman. Saying town sucks at coordinating is different.

If I can identify town early, I am good at optimizing us.

Yet others do not play like that as a whole.

[The DEO]

We don't need information, we just need to force scum to beat us with strong Day play.

More information = The better my day play.

[The DEO]

Let it go LUV, absolutely noone is going to scumread me over something so obvious and trivial.

I caught scum with that "trivial" type of comment before.

[The DEO]

VOTE: Science

Oh the feeling is mutual Vecna.

[The DEO]

I don't think anything here for a pick is a scumclaim aslong as you bring a case for your actions nothing is never a scumclaim unless you pass up an amazing power and none of these are really amazing
~Maria

Really, there's two that I want and a third necessity for someone to get.

What do you think of Vecna?

[The DEO]

I didn't notice Vecna was the first one to say 5 either. To be fair, me, him, and Maria just finished a game together where there were 20+ players and we were on a scum team of 5.

9=2
12=3
16=4
20=5
24=6

Typical # of scum to balance a game of the given size. May vary.

And considering Undertale and theme game you

really

think this is valid?

FoS Vecna and PV.

~~Math

[The DEO]

I'm a resolution doublevoter

VOTE: none
VOTE: none

Wtf? Why would you put it at L-1 without everyone chiming in?

~~Math

Sis sign them posts <3

[The DEO]

I don't think anything here for a pick is a scumclaim aslong as you bring a case for your actions nothing is never a scumclaim unless you pass up an amazing power and none of these are really amazing
~Maria

Really, there's two that I want and a third necessity for someone to get.

What do you think of Vecna?

What is the first line referring to?

He's being himself null bringing up obv statements that for some reason need explaining.

The first line refers to none of the powers being great. There's two awesome and a third necessity.

Why does Vecna over explaining mean null for you?

P.S. Math, we're going to talk on PerV. We're ignoring Vecna until dayphase starts, if not later.

[The DEO]

Nebby think choosing nothing is a scumclaim, and I'm inclined to agree.

- Akane.

I am also inclined to agree and was coming to post this and think you are town.

Omg!! Hi Beeboy!!

I claim Asari Murdersmith <3

I also claim how much I love you and you consistently scumreads me for three days
Scum roleblock me ad infinitem then they lose.

We has plan? We has plan.

~~Math

[The DEO]

@mod: Assume no one builds a wonder. Can we build ancient era stuff in later ages?

~~Math

[The DEO]

I didn't notice Vecna was the first one to say 5 either. To be fair, me, him, and Maria just finished a game together where there were 20+ players and we were on a scum team of 5.

9=2
12=3
16=4
20=5
24=6

Typical # of scum to balance a game of the given size. May vary.

And considering Undertale and theme game you

really

think this is valid?

FoS Vecna and PV.

~~Math

Its a theme-game where all players have equal opportunities at the same power-level. Why wouldnt a standard distribution be used?

If this is really the level of reads I can expect from you guys this game ill feel cheated after having to deal with the real deal last game.

If last game means Double Deck I hope to never relive how much time I spent on fail island. Titus however was good.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Because we don't know how these wonders work.

There is so much we don't know. To assume standard distribution is a flawed starting point IMHO.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Math, ignore Vecna for now.

Albert might be town.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Because we don't know how these wonders work.

There is so much we don't know. To assume standard distribution is a

flawed starting point

IMHO.

~~Math

It may be flawed, but does that make it scummy?

Vecna 50/50
PV hell yes

~~Math

[The DEO]

@mod: Assume no one builds a wonder. Can we build ancient era stuff in later ages?

~~Math

Wonders can only be built in their respective era.

Thanks Nahdia.

So then waiting is just ridiculous. So the arguments are shit and trying to hurt Town so we have less PRs. Got it.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Yuck. The only player that should claim tomorrow is Stonehenge and Treestump. Maybe not Stonehenge.

[The DEO]

Take it from a group of people who did all the planning they needed for a scum win
And take it from the people who had to deal with it on the town side aswell town lost both times a ton of planning was put into something along these lines
(Pick your power and the thing)
This is a no go
~Maria

We are the true victims of the Thing endgame

No one else will ever understand

Spiffeh, can you stop lamenting the past and help me sort Sondam/Vecna?

[The DEO]

well I'll be back once we vote in something and can start voting players.

Please quote alt slips.

[The DEO]

Ok vote for None to help speed up the process

I am not sure I want to speed things up. I had theory but I don't want to confbias it.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Nevermind, beeboy is not a hydra here.

[The DEO]

Because we don't know how these wonders work.

There is so much we don't know. To assume standard distribution is a

flawed starting point

IMHO.

~~Math

It may be flawed, but does that make it scummy?

Vecna 50/50
PV hell yes

~~Math

I got it PerV.

Say, talk to me about Beeboy and Uzi?

~Titus

[The DEO]

Yuck. The only player that should claim tomorrow is Stonehenge and Treestump. Maybe not Stonehenge.

Why should the Treestump claim? If town, the Treestump drawing the night kill would be better than anyone else.

Treestump hides flip. That's a negative utility that gets claimed. It should only go to people who we insist stay at endgame. There's only one person who has posted that I feel confident as town with that ability (not us).

[The DEO]

Yuck. The only player that should claim tomorrow is Stonehenge and Treestump. Maybe not Stonehenge.

Why should the Treestump claim? If town, the Treestump drawing the night kill would be better than anyone else.

Treestump hides flip. That's a negative utility that gets claimed. It should only go to people who we insist stay at endgame. There's only one person who has posted that I feel confident as town with that ability (not us).

Is there a reason to hide who that person is?

Yes, but that's only if someone we trust draws it.

It's a catch 22.

[The DEO]

Uzi, your reads dear? I could talk all day about those roles. You seem like you could too. I don't want to.

~Titus

[The DEO]

@Uzi, Who is scum?

Why is Leon an issue for you?

@PV, Not my first pick, but not opposed. I'll lay out our issues with Vecna in dayphase, but I see where beeboy being lynched is also good.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Lol LUV sidestepping.

I should try to sort some other nerds real quickly lmao

Who are your scumreads?

@Maxous, half a read?

[The DEO]

- Scum can use the cop on death to get an idea of who to kill

This is wierd and stretchy.

A scumread on Spiffeh? Really? A and N hydra? They're big townreads of mine, although I think they are wrong on Elbrin.

[The DEO]

Spiffeh/PV, how long should we wait for Drixx? The consensus seems to be clear, but I want him here.

[The DEO]

245 is not a problem to me. It's consistent with his mindset that science will fuck us. The optimal best option, in a lack of information position, is the one that gets the most of our townreads. I'm townreading Spiffeh's general entrance as a whole, scumhunting and trying to persuade as to what he thinks he's best. I just feel he's wrong and acting out of fear. That doesn't make him scummy though. People carry their own baggage and those who are transparent with it help.

I think you're making the same mistake that those who disagree with you are indeed scum. Sure, scum disagree sometimes, but sometimes they agree. Looking at the depth of logic tells more.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Drixx just entered the game straight at the top of my scumlist

Announcing youre going to pick Treestump? REALLY?

Its just basicly scum knowing theyll need an excuse to not be nk'd yet in the endgame announcing to the world why theyre not getting NK'd. Guys guys! The reason im still alive is because im treestump and scum doesnt want subpar nightkills! I swear its not because Im scum that planned ahead.

Silly Vecna.

Drixx is for town.

(Sung to Trixx cereal).

[The DEO]

Titus I wouldn't be surprised if I am, but I seriously don't like the None wagon. I think I'ma talk more time to sort the people who are voting None in a bit.
-Nebby

pedit: tbh I never played with spliff before.

Spiffeh is very skilled as town. I haven't played with scum Spiffeh in awhile (if ever), but I can attest to the Spiffeh not wanting to plan is his genuine concern.

I don't mind Drixx being a treestump. It's a little suboptimal to claim it, but I can see why he did.

[The DEO]

Yuri, why do you seem overly invested in defending Vecna?

[The DEO]

Wait tf did they just agree to chill for now? Hot damn

Also DEO, now that I look at it, Fro99er is also defending Vecna, even explaining how he perceives vecna's points to Drixx. I don't have a problem w Fro99er doin this, but I'm wondering why you don't.

I'm focused on you and your hard defense, not just people townreading Vecna.

[The DEO]

The only reason to pass on day chat would be because they hope something better will come along later. Day chat is like one of the main advantages scum have on this site (and the site statistics back it up). The idea that they would pass on it (remember: they can only build it today ... if they pass on it, then presumably it's gone forever {excepting if multiple wonders repeat the same effect, which would be lazy and I know Nahdia isn't}) just because Science lets them plan what buildings to try for at night ... is just plain absurd. Planning which buildings to take is like priority level negative (insert really large integer) compared to what scum can use day chat to coordinate. The whole argument is so over the top ridiculous that I'm seriously wondering if Vecna is just trolling me at this point.

I agree daychat is very powerful, which was my main concern for not wanting science in the first place.

I think what Vecna is saying is that if science is chosen, then they can pass on choosing day chat to try to block off as many of the other D1 wonders that only town can grab, thereby limiting town's power a bit more. They can coordinate at night, knowing they get to choose that night from D1 wonders also with knowledge of what D2 wonders are. So it's not about waiting for powers as much as limiting town's powers on D1.

I'm not sure if that's enough of an argument to make me want to choose none, because I also buy your science argument. I think titus and spiffeh are town. I thought you were town on your first post, but then the back and forth with you and Vecna I have no idea. I've also never seen scum!drixx play. I'm town and if you, titus, spiffeh, ABR are town, we're going to win this. It'll be like mafiaception, but with titus on our side.

Check what Nahdia said. Wonders are only available on their day. Scum can't pass up daychat today and take it tomorrow after discussing tonight. Regardless of science or !science, they are locked into taking day chat today or not at all.

Also I can point you to my scum games but they're all pretty old at this point. A bunch of them are in the newbie queue since I spend time ICing there and working on my game when there's little to no role interaction and it's just reading people (worst part of my game, by far). The best place to get an idea of scum!me is probably SMITE. But it's like ... WAY out of date.

---

I deleted the rest of my post. Intervening posts made it unnecessary.


P.S. - Please seriously go look at Suikoden and Inception before you guys vote none. We have a huge group of the players who led those two smashing town victories in this game. Like ... if there was ever a game to bet that town will function properly and recognize each other and maximize one another's strengths ... THIS is the player list that you want to bet on. PLEASE don't cut off an avenue of great potential utility out of fear. The "but scum can..." stuff is all true, but it's also just fear mongering. The advantage is equal in terms of info, but disproportionately in town's favor due to numbers and the 1-wonder limit.

Science is ideal, but it's not the end of the world if I don't get it. What's more important is the focusing on reads and figuring out how to use everyone's scumhunting to the best so far. If I thought Science was life or death, I'd say so.

[The DEO]

Can there be a way to ensure each member picks a different wonder without scum knowing?

No, but we could do something close.

Like frog chooses from {X, Y}, drixx chooses from {Y, Z}, titus chooses from {Z, X}

And if we had enough coverage of this it would at least not let scum know who chose what exactly, and probably lets us get close to choosing them all, if not actually choosing them all with mid-teens town players.

Not a fan of this, but I'll sleep on this.

Frogger, what are your reads?

[The DEO]

The problem Drix is that we've seen MB and Titus play tend to backfire on town.

And the Pick Your Power game? Hmm.

This game shouldn't be focused on measuring our past achievements or perceived lack their of. My town play has improved from where it was. The point is to figure out who is town and get the best out of them. So, if you think I'm town, you should help me avoid my pitfalls. If you think I'm scum, the goal should be the opposite.

[The DEO]

Wait tf did they just agree to chill for now? Hot damn

Also DEO, now that I look at it, Fro99er is also defending Vecna, even explaining how he perceives vecna's points to Drixx. I don't have a problem w Fro99er doin this, but I'm wondering why you don't.

I'm focused on you and your hard defense, not just people townreading Vecna.

Titus, are you looking for people defending their scum-teammate, or scum just white-knighting?

If its the first, please use your energy more productive.

Why does that matter? Both are scum motivations. Why are you interrupting my attempts to get reads?

[The DEO]

I don't really want to do none. Like its safe and doesn't change anything. I feel like Arts, eventhough I realize that it could backfire on town, could really help too.

Why do you feel the arts is useful? It doesn't help me at all, so I'm rather against it. Barring some lylo shot governor/double voter, vote mechanics tend to get in the way.

I find it interesting how much our reads are in sync. Thankful and suspicious. Kinda wierd.

[The DEO]

Can there be a way to ensure each member picks a different wonder without scum knowing?

No, but we could do something close.

Like frog chooses from {X, Y}, drixx chooses from {Y, Z}, titus chooses from {Z, X}

And if we had enough coverage of this it would at least not let scum know who chose what exactly, and probably lets us get close to choosing them all, if not actually choosing them all with mid-teens town players.

Not a fan of this, but I'll sleep on this.

Frogger, what are your reads?

Some reads

Town:
Spiff, TitusMath, Alihydra, MariaGerry, LUV

Scum:
Leon

Vecna and Drixx I need to place.

I don't feel well with MG at town or LUV there yet. Leon also doesn't feel that scummy to me.

Care to elaborate?

~Titus

[The DEO]

The problem Drix is that we've seen MB and Titus play tend to backfire on town.

And the Pick Your Power game? Hmm.

This game shouldn't be focused on measuring our past achievements or perceived lack their of. My town play has improved from where it was. The point is to figure out who is town and get the best out of them. So, if you think I'm town, you should help me avoid my pitfalls. If you think I'm scum, the goal should be the opposite.

It's not just that game.

I'm town and I work better with less noise. All of the mechanics talk is just that and don't help anyone figure out anyone else's alignment. I'm going to have trouble figuring out the both of you if we continue which is why I want you to just vote None.

If you solve the game better without the mechanics talk, why were you engaging me more on the mechanics talk and why was it harder to discuss reads with you?

[The DEO]

I'm actually against exploring this further until we get a solid townblock going.

~Titus

[The DEO]

We chose in the group of {Mausoleum, Hanging gardens} so no one else pick from that grouping, okay?

- Akane

Double submissions are fine. We aren't forgoing one of the abilities just to make sure any one slot is a PR. That's dumb, especially if memory serves correct, one of those is doctor.

~Titus

[The DEO]

The problem Drix is that we've seen MB and Titus play tend to backfire on town.

And the Pick Your Power game? Hmm.

This game shouldn't be focused on measuring our past achievements or perceived lack their of. My town play has improved from where it was. The point is to figure out who is town and get the best out of them. So, if you think I'm town, you should help me avoid my pitfalls. If you think I'm scum, the goal should be the opposite.

It's not just that game.

I'm town and I work better with less noise. All of the mechanics talk is just that and don't help anyone figure out anyone else's alignment. I'm going to have trouble figuring out the both of you if we continue which is why I want you to just vote None.

If you solve the game better without the mechanics talk, why were you engaging me more on the mechanics talk and why was it harder to discuss reads with you?

Mainly because I am trying to work with you and I don't like sharing reads.

Sharing reads is much more efficient though. I generally post more if I can't get the information regarding reads directly yet. Plus, it makes you more lynchable which although I have you as possible scum, I don't think you're in my lynch pool today.

[The DEO]

Vecna, what is your read on Yuri? Do you think that's a scum defense of you?

[The DEO]

I don't think Drixx would be cheerleading Titus so hard as scum

That's because I'm not. And unless someone snatches the Pyramids from me, I need to KEEP being OTAF so I can be useful as a town voice who can't be stopped. Although as far as that goes, it's amusing because assuming I get pyramids successfully, then it takes only one further step to make me an IC who can't be silenced. I'm pretty sure it's obvious but just in case going to keep my mouth shut about how that would be accomplished.

We got you.

~Titus

[The DEO]

@Mod: I would like to commence building the Pyramids please. Thanks.

Absolutely zero reason to hide that I'm doing so. It's now on me to obvtown the shit out of myself, plus I accept that I have to be lynched before any potential endgame. Won't bother me because I get to still play the game.

We submit builds by PM.

You got a read for me? Aside from Vecna or Nero.

[The DEO]

We chose in the group of {Mausoleum, Hanging gardens} so no one else pick from that grouping, okay?

- Akane

This is the sort of information you shouldnt out, unless we come up with a proper plan. And we should get at least a few other unlikely nightkills on that Hanging gardens imo.

And risk someone else taking our dream wonder via priority stuff? No thank you

- Akane and Nebby

P.S: Yes, this is a double signature, because we both feel this way

p-edit: But we want a wonder of this era, specifically, which can't be built later per mod info.... Or don't you even know that? Well, you just awoke the Kraken and the Kraken will keep anyone else from building within those two wonders.

Kraken cannot do shit. Sorry, but it's more important that town actually HAVE these two wonders than to force who has them.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Seriously? What part of "we have a player incredible at synergizing town roles" and "closing the information gap" were unclear?

There is absolutely nothing to stop Titus (or anyone) from doing that. She's got five roles now to work with, I assume more each day. why are you acting like anyone is being denied something?

Because I'd have 10ish roles to coordinate tomorrow. The catch is, I don't have a solid plan to do that. If the neighborizer was permanent, I would. Each one is a one day long neighborizer targeting the self though.

[The DEO]

Besides, you just advised everyone to pick wonders which match their playstyle. Well, neighborizer matches our playstyle more than anything else.

Please be quiet regarding roles and playstyles. IF that's honest, rather than town oriented wifom *hint hint*, then pick it. There's many different playstyle roles, and people may want something different.

Getting town to work together is about day and night play being in sync.

[The DEO]

Is no one gonna point out that the {X, Y} thing is a terrible plan that still gives scum a 50% chance of hitting the PR they want to kill, and a chance to try again for 100% the next night?

Stop announcing PRs. And you also can't select two and say 'no one else take them'. That guarantees one won't get picked. And tells the scum you're either a doctor or a neighbourizer. They'll nightkill EITHER.
Just pick with your playstyle and if you miss out, try again the next day with higher priority for you.

You're still here. Ok.

Other than Vecna town, what are your reads?

[The DEO]

Seriously? What part of "we have a player incredible at synergizing town roles" and "closing the information gap" were unclear?

There is absolutely nothing to stop Titus (or anyone) from doing that. She's got five roles now to work with, I assume more each day. why are you acting like anyone is being denied something?

Because I'd have 10ish roles to coordinate tomorrow. The catch is, I don't have a solid plan to do that. If the neighborizer was permanent, I would. Each one is a one day long neighborizer targeting the self though.

Start with 5. (arts would make it 6.... just saying)

It doesn't state you can't neighborize the same person over and over, so just do that.

That's nerfing the neighborizer. A neighborizer works best when networking town into a masonry scum cannot infect. I have a minor plan but I need townreads before even considering it.

[The DEO]

Spiffeh you're better than this. Titus is absurdly good with information and if people will let her do her thing. Throwing shade on her for doing exactly what one would expect her to do as town ... not so good.

I've never known Titus to be like some scumhunting God as her information grows

She's a fine player but this has never been one of her identifiers as far as I've known.

In The Thing we all had all the information out on the table and she didn't do anything special with it that everyone else didn't figure out themselves. So I am definitely not giving scum a significant advantage in knowing what roles to cash in on or wait for because" Titus can do things with information!!!".

Your "closing the information gap" argument doesn't resonate with me. It is much easier for scum to plan things out. There are less bodies to fuck things up and they will have a PT (because they will likely get the daychat ability) solely to plan out their actions. And if the plan is for each role to go to an assigned person and force them to target what a "town-bloc contingent" decides, I will be replacing out. A public plan was exactly how the scum team in the Thing won the game and I don't have it in me to go through all the bullshit that comes with a Night Action Plan again.

Spiffeh, the night action plan is why town was in a good position to win. I guess I wasn't clear to analyze the plan, but no one should be 100% happy with any plan in existence. It's why people object that tells alignment. What people propose suggests alignment. Even twiddling thumbs and not planning is a plan. Town cannot exclusively plan. I had a rather solid townblock in that game, and I was pressing at the right points. I just died before it was all put together. You're a knockdown scumhunter, but I died before you and Tammy. I had the set of skills to counter scum that wasn't what you're used to.

I'm by my nature, a planner regardless of alignment, if invested. I'm planning to see who likes who. Who can synergize and who cannot. Winning as town is about getting a solid iron wall with accurate reads that scum cannot pierce. Sure, things should be vetted but we don't stop blocking scum because one thing went wrong before. This was a draft game when you inned. There's always going to be some mechanics discussion. If you want to tune out on that part, fine by me. Whatever role you pick, I will have an opinion on optimal use though and I'd expect you to have one too.

[The DEO]

Seriously? What part of "we have a player incredible at synergizing town roles" and "closing the information gap" were unclear?

There is absolutely nothing to stop Titus (or anyone) from doing that. She's got five roles now to work with, I assume more each day. why are you acting like anyone is being denied something?

Because I'd have 10ish roles to coordinate tomorrow. The catch is, I don't have a solid plan to do that. If the neighborizer was permanent, I would. Each one is a one day long neighborizer targeting the self though.

Start with 5. (arts would make it 6.... just saying)

It doesn't state you can't neighborize the same person over and over, so just do that.

That's nerfing the neighborizer. A neighborizer works best when networking town into a masonry scum cannot infect. I have a minor plan but I need townreads before even considering it.

Then just be the treestump. Then, you can plan all you want and nobody can stop you.

There's more valuable things than the sound of my own voice. [Insert laughter here]

[The DEO]

I don't, and that's the point. I don't want someone gettng a higher priority for this. Leave it to us, everyone else can disperse between other four wonders. *uses a puppy dog eyes technique*

The more you do this, the more I want to take neighborizer.

Just focus on bringing us scum and then using neighborizer to the best you can, if you get it. Get the town block going, then get the shinies. Not the other way around.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Titus, the only reason it made sense to go with the Night Action Plan in the Thing is because literally every role was out on the table and everyone knew who had it.

There are too many variables in this game for it to be successful again.

We don't know what other roles scum could possess that can fuck things up. If we give them a night action roadmap a la The Thing, they are able to optimally use whatever they have to their highest advantage which can lead us on the wrong track during the Day.

Which is why I'm against the plan Frogger proposed. This plan doesn't work, but I'll be working on one if I live.

~Titus

[The DEO]

The Hanging Gardens

Each night, you may target a player to protect from a single killing action.

The Pyramids

If you die, no information will be released along with your flip. You will become a treestump and may continue posting in the main thread. You will be dead for all other purposes.

Mausoleum of Halicarnassus

Each night, you may select a player to form a neighborhood with. This neighborhood will last only the following day & night phase.

Stonehenge

Each night, you may target a player. If you are killed during the night, that player's alignment will be immediately publicly revealed.

Statue of Zeus

Each night, target a player. The first time a killing action targets you, that action will instead be redirected to your target.

The Great Lighthouse

(Available only to non-town players) Factional topics you are a part of gain day chat as long as you are alive.

If you are going to make a plan that is hard to fuck with, do it randomly. This is the list of who builds what.

Nobody claims.

Tomorrow we get another list. We assign the same groups to the town PRs.

Nobody claims.

By day3, we either have actionable intelligence, or we start finding out which scum took the scum wonders.

Anything else, aside from regular playing, is not a good idea

Gardens

Akane and Nebby (Alisae & Malachite)
Fro99er
Nero Cain
Yuri

Pyramids

beeboy
The DEO (Titus & Mathblade)
Leonshade
Elbirn

Mausoleum of Halicarnassus

Creature
Drixx
Julius Caesar (Aeronaut & Pine)
Lil Uzi Vert

Stonehenge

Vecna
ssbm_Kyouko
ooba
Maxous

Statue of Zeus

PeregrineV
Sondam (MariaR & gerryoat)
NoticeMeSenpai (JaeReed & mastina)
Albert B. Rampage

Pick whatever
Spiffeh

Not adhering to this.

Drixx, my biggest TR, wants Pyramids. I am not drafting that.

People should draft what matches their skillset.

[The DEO]

Btw, yeah, we must coordinate our picks well. Are we informed who picked what?

We are likely not. Submissions done by pm.

[The DEO]

Btw, yeah, we must coordinate our picks well. Are we informed who picked what?

Nope.

Peregrine picking randomly is bad and you should feel bad and literally no one is going to listen are u bein serious

No, randomly forces roles onto scum that they don't want.

It also forces town into bad roles. I will come up with something. Give me time.

[The DEO]

Stonehedge will either be a waste or backfire.

This doesn't help. Wonders are only as useful as the person who has them. Brb.

[The DEO]

VOTE: None

Pretty clear we lost here Drixx.

VOTE: Yuri

[The DEO]

Ok I didnt want to post this but all the dumbasses are forcing me.

SCUM WANTS SCIENCE.

IT ALLOWS THEM TO -NOT- PICK THE SHITTY DAYCHAT. WHICH IS A WASTE. OF A SLOT

WITH SCIENCE, THEY CAN DISCUSS DURING THE NIGHT HOW THEY COORDINATE THE PICKING OF ABILITIES AND HOW TO DIVIDE THEM.

WITHOUT SCIENCE, THEY NEED DAYCHAT TO COORDINATE

picking science effectively gives scum the opportunity to pass on daychat. We WANT them to be forced to pick daychat.

Daychat without a doubt is the most OP power role in mafia. To coordinate wonder building this is true but daychat has won me quite a fun scum games. The fact you are trying to claim daychat is shitty is absurd.

~~Math

~~Math

[The DEO]

Ok I didnt want to post this but all the dumbasses are forcing me.

SCUM WANTS SCIENCE.

IT ALLOWS THEM TO -NOT- PICK THE SHITTY DAYCHAT. WHICH IS A WASTE. OF A SLOT

WITH SCIENCE, THEY CAN DISCUSS DURING THE NIGHT HOW THEY COORDINATE THE PICKING OF ABILITIES AND HOW TO DIVIDE THEM.

WITHOUT SCIENCE, THEY NEED DAYCHAT TO COORDINATE

picking science effectively gives scum the opportunity to pass on daychat. We WANT them to be forced to pick daychat.

Everyone arguing so hard why they want science probably realized this.

Main person is Drixx who is literally bringing out all the bad arguments why we need it and is trying to -shade- me and my logic hard.

How do you feel about that Titus? Ignore the parts where he is caressing your ego and all that, and look at the argument he is making and how hard he is pushing it, pretty much just forcing all kinds of nonsense together just to discredit my reasoning.

What kind of special are you? Are you

seriously

trying to argue that any scum team would pass on a day chat facilitator just on the HOPE that something better might be attained later in the game ... just because they can discuss what to build at night if we research science? That's your whole logical thought process?

And here I was assuming you had something actually important you were not saying and not something so completely implausible as to be absurd to even worry about.

Paranoid? No I don't think so.

TRYING TOO HARD

to look paranoid.

And you gets a townread!

~~Math

[The DEO]

There is way too much distrust early on for all the power we could gain to even match the fact that scum are informed.

Boooo town hunts scum. Those that are not scum work together. Very antitown sentiment.

Ping level rising but not to Vecna levels.

~~Math

[The DEO]

What was essentially proposed by some earlier was that all this information would help form a town block in a game that just started and has 20+ players.

Yes it would. Because Titus.

~~Math

Titus handles the town bloc. I handle mechanics liars

[The DEO]

Hey guys, before this phase ends...

Let's all make a pledge to not proclaim that everyone is terrible, and YOU ALONE CAN FIX EVERYTHING IF ONLY YOU WERE LISTENED TO.

Ok?

Look forward to winning with you

Lol it depends on the craziness level of everyone else.

I seriously had a game where that was the case.

I can't make that promise.

~~Math

[The DEO]

The only reason to pass on day chat would be because they hope something better will come along later. Day chat is like one of the main advantages scum have on this site (and the site statistics back it up). The idea that they would pass on it (remember: they can only build it today ... if they pass on it, then presumably it's gone forever {excepting if multiple wonders repeat the same effect, which would be lazy and I know Nahdia isn't}) just because Science lets them plan what buildings to try for at night ... is just plain absurd. Planning which buildings to take is like priority level negative (insert really large integer) compared to what scum can use day chat to coordinate. The whole argument is so over the top ridiculous that I'm seriously wondering if Vecna is just trolling me at this point.

I agree daychat is very powerful, which was my main concern for not wanting science in the first place.

I think what Vecna is saying is that if science is chosen, then they can pass on choosing day chat to try to block off as many of the other D1 wonders that only town can grab, thereby limiting town's power a bit more. They can coordinate at night, knowing they get to choose that night from D1 wonders also with knowledge of what D2 wonders are. So it's not about waiting for powers as much as limiting town's powers on D1.

I'm not sure if that's enough of an argument to make me want to choose none, because I also buy your science argument. I think titus and spiffeh are town. I thought you were town on your first post, but then the back and forth with you and Vecna I have no idea. I've also never seen scum!drixx play. I'm town and if you, titus, spiffeh, ABR are town, we're going to win this. It'll be like mafiaception, but with titus on our side.

Scum w/ Vecna likely found.

Daychat and science are not related. Daychat is powerful in its own right. In fact daychat and science together leads for more ways for scum to possibly slip. And there is very little chance scum pass on daychat. If they do they are idiots and will summarily be lynched anyway. In other words not worried about a scum no daychat world. Because Titus and I will catch them.

~~Math

[The DEO]

The only reason to pass on day chat would be because they hope something better will come along later. Day chat is like one of the main advantages scum have on this site (and the site statistics back it up). The idea that they would pass on it (remember: they can only build it today ... if they pass on it, then presumably it's gone forever {excepting if multiple wonders repeat the same effect, which would be lazy and I know Nahdia isn't}) just because Science lets them plan what buildings to try for at night ... is just plain absurd. Planning which buildings to take is like priority level negative (insert really large integer) compared to what scum can use day chat to coordinate. The whole argument is so over the top ridiculous that I'm seriously wondering if Vecna is just trolling me at this point.

I agree daychat is very powerful, which was my main concern for not wanting science in the first place.

I think what Vecna is saying is that if science is chosen, then they can pass on choosing day chat to try to block off as many of the other D1 wonders that only town can grab, thereby limiting town's power a bit more. They can coordinate at night, knowing they get to choose that night from D1 wonders also with knowledge of what D2 wonders are. So it's not about waiting for powers as much as limiting town's powers on D1.

I'm not sure if that's enough of an argument to make me want to choose none, because I also buy your science argument. I think titus and spiffeh are town. I thought you were town on your first post, but then the back and forth with you and Vecna I have no idea. I've also never seen scum!drixx play. I'm town and if you, titus, spiffeh, ABR are town, we're going to win this. It'll be like mafiaception, but with titus on our side.

Fucking hydra slips.

If anyone has a way of remembering to not hydra slip, please tell me

But I think we both know thats not what he was alluding to in his post.

there is really no need to continue the needling.

drop it.

Ooooh nice scumslips. For the wins of town. Thanks. Please keep doing this.

~~Math

[The DEO]

The problem Drix is that we've seen MB and Titus play tend to backfire on town.

Titus and I are swingy. Look at Undertale. Because sometimes we're wrong and sometimes we're right doesn't mean we are wrong here. Scumz maybe? Going to talk with Titus head some.

~~Math

[The DEO]

I want math to explain how that is a scumslip.
-Nebby

Why would Town have a "need" of having things only go to a certain point?

Why would Town "drop it" there?

Why would if Town coaching be phrased like that?

I do not see two or one townies do this.

This is scum trying to control the situation because the "need" has been met.
~~Math

[The DEO]

PeregrineV is my number one town read and I doubt that will ever change.

I got town vibes from Titus, Drixx, Vecna, Akane and Nebby, probably some others I'm forgetting

I don't really have any scum reads other than Nero. A bulk of the players significantly engaging with the Resolution decision seemed pretty town to me.

I am ok with Drixx, Akane and Nebby, and us being a block.

Why so hard on PV being town? I was wierded out by his push.

Math and I are giving you space on Nero. We don't want another game where we're constantly fighting Nero but at the same point, we aren't 100% TRing him either.

[The DEO]

The Deo what is your read progression on my slot?

Don't worry about it. Tell me who is town or scum. My read on you will fall into place.

~Titus

[The DEO]

What's your issue with this reasoning? What do you mean by "overplaying"? Yes I said it multiple times and tried to convince people to vote my way. That's what I do when I feel strongly about something.

I don't know how you could view what I said about Titus as "non-committal". I was very much calling her out on why I felt her reasoning for wanting Science was concerning.

The beeboy thing was basically a douchier way of saying I disagreed with pretty much everything he was saying.

plausible i suppose. i don't want to tunnel here.

can you explain the Titus read?..how it looked to me is:

Titus: Let's co-ordiante night actions
Spiffeh: No we lost the last time we did that
Titus: Yeah but we might not this time
Spiffeh: ur scum

i mean, Titus wanting to game night actions is something she does all the time anyway, so why the scumread?

No. That's not accurate as to what happened at all.

Spiffeh said that he found it weird that I was ignoring others. Meanwhile at the same time, I was typing out a post to him regarding the concerns others had.

[The DEO]

Max, Creature, Uzi seemed the most scummy to me during the resolution phase. Could buy a Sip chainsaw defending creature if its not too much. Though the Ali head just randomly having a scum read on me in prob scum.

vote:Creature

Sip?

[The DEO]

Spiffeh

Boo.

I'd do Maxous.

[The DEO]

Spiffeh

Boo.

I'd do Maxous.

What do you think of him scumreading me for scumreading Creature?

I think Spiffeh is town.

Maxous is the largest wagon. Are you in or out?

~Titus

[The DEO]

Maxous is the largest wagon. Are you in or out?

Why are you so anxious for me to move my vote?

Why are you deflecting? Maxous is the biggest wagon. You "scumread" him. Yet, you're voting a solo wagon. So, my question is, why did you bypass the Maxous wagon? I'm not particularly thrilled with the rationale for Creature and I love wagons for analysis later.

So, are you in or out on voting Maxous?

@Vecna, You want a shitstorm. Go ahead. I can fight you. I don't particularly care to yet.

[The DEO]

Maxous is the largest wagon. Are you in or out?

Why are you so anxious for me to move my vote?

Why are you deflecting? Maxous is the biggest wagon. You "scumread" him. Yet, you're voting a solo wagon. So, my question is, why did you bypass the Maxous wagon? I'm not particularly thrilled with the rationale for Creature and I love wagons for analysis later.

So, are you in or out on voting Maxous?

@Vecna, You want a shitstorm. Go ahead. I can fight you. I don't particularly care to yet.

TB factually correct here, the Max wagon only blew up after my creature vote so your "Nero bypassed the Max wagon" isn't truthful. I may or may not move to Max when I am good and ready.

You're bypassing it now, and not making a case on Creature.

[The DEO]

@TheDEO: Aren't y'all on Yuri?

Yup. We're not being wagoned and I'm pressuring some things. I'm investigating. Yuri is my biggest scumread, but I'm still going to pressure what I see that feels off.

[The DEO]

My scumread on Creature is basically like several of his posts are this sort of confused "I don't know whats going on" and that just seems p fake to me. Though Titus' "Nero ignored the Max wagon" "He wasn't even a wagon when I voted Creature." "Welll...welll...you are ignoring it now!" Games with Titus would be a lot less frustrating if she'd just take being proven wrong in stride instead of trying to argue that she's right all the time.

We could play timeline semantics, namely that Maxous had two votes but Sondam got off. Then you voted Creature. Then, another vote got added onto Maxous. Yet, that's besides my point and you know it Nero.

My point is, a wagon existed on Maxous at the time of me asking you if you wanted to join it. You deflected my question as a Creature defense. I ask again, and you start this semantic non-sense. So, what is your read on Maxous and why?

[The DEO]

If this is what I get for trying to wagon mutual scumreads, imagine what happens when I actually disagreed with you on something Nero. :/

[The DEO]

So, what is your read on Maxous and why?

No, you don't have to move your vote. No one's saying you do. I'd expect rationale as to why Creature's scum though to try and persuade me to get on your wagon, since I haven't expressly stated a read on Creature or work with me on a mutual scumread. Sticking your fingers in your ears is helping town how exactly?

[The DEO]

Bullshit reason. Not even everyone has posted yet. I read Maxous as town.

~~Math

[The DEO]

I give up. Talk to Math.

Never mind. We'll go back to Ignoring you Nero.

[The DEO]

you can't ask me to engage with you and then when I ask questions back you turn tail and run. :/

You asked Math why she townread Maxous. If you have a question for me, I'd be glad to answer. I just don't think talking to you is more fruitful if the best I'll get out of you is "Creature feels fake" and no effort to get me on your wagon after I reached out to you.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Or you could you know actully comment on what I said instead of getting all bent out of shape that I haven't converted my civilization to the Titus religion yet.

I cannot comment on your feelings. Either they're real or they aren't, and that depends on your role PM.

~Titus

[The DEO]

I want Spif, Deo, Elbrin, Vecna, Uzi, and Frogger to be my mason buddies.

-Nebby

No Drixx?

Take out Vecna and Uzi and add Drixx and I'd feel mighty comfortable with that.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Or you could you know actully comment on what I said instead of getting all bent out of shape that I haven't converted my civilization to the Titus religion yet.

I cannot comment on your feelings. Either they're real or they aren't, and that depends on your role PM.

~Titus

What about Creature?

He looks like agreeable town for now. I don't hard town read Creature but I feel good about him.

~Titus

[The DEO]

tbh I forgot Drixx was in this game.
Why do you not like Vecna?

-Nebby

He seems intent on starting a fight that would do nothing to help the game state, and his push at the start was a little . He's not lock scum for me, like Math thinks. Yet, if a wagon happened there, I'd vote it.

~Titus

[The DEO]

I want Spif, Deo, Elbrin, Vecna, Uzi, and Frogger to be my mason buddies.

-Nebby

You are a fool in the process of being endgamed.

Which one of those is wrong?

[The DEO]

I want Spif, Deo, Elbrin, Vecna, Uzi, and Frogger to be my mason buddies.

-Nebby

You are a fool in the process of being endgamed.

This list is comedically horrible.

Like Vecna Frogger Spiffy LUV Yuri is my scumteam read.

~~Math

[The DEO]

I forgot what MB found scummy about me. Something about anti-town sentiment.

We're still sorting you. I need to sync up with them, but I am busy posting here and not making my DnD character.

So yeah, bye for now.

[The DEO]

I want Spif, Deo, Elbrin, Vecna, Uzi, and Frogger to be my mason buddies.

-Nebby

You are a fool in the process of being endgamed.

This list is comedically horrible.

Like Vecna Frogger Spiffy LUV Yuri is my scumteam read.

~~Math

Did I say sync, I mean buy an adapter cable to reform.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Why is Maxous scum? Why are you so sure they are scum over me that you won't vote someone you just said is scum.

~G

VOTE: Sondham

Do you believe Maxous is scum? Or are you trying to throw more town votes onto his wagon?

~Titus

[The DEO]

Why is Maxous scum? Why are you so sure they are scum over me that you won't vote someone you just said is scum.

~G

VOTE: Sondham

Do you believe Maxous is scum? Or are you trying to throw more town votes onto his wagon?

~Titus

Uhhh. waht. Are you reading wrong or just trying to jump on the sudden attention on me.

I never said anything about Maxous was scum or if he was town. I clearly asked Alisae why they wouldnt vote ME when they said I was scum.

What is your read of us? You've been saying a lot of negative things about a lot of people and having zero followup.

What is your Maxous read? Why are you saying Alisae hydra should vote you?

[The DEO]

Why is Maxous scum? Why are you so sure they are scum over me that you won't vote someone you just said is scum.

~G

VOTE: Sondham

Do you believe Maxous is scum? Or are you trying to throw more town votes onto his wagon?

~Titus

Uhhh. waht. Are you reading wrong or just trying to jump on the sudden attention on me.

I never said anything about Maxous was scum or if he was town. I clearly asked Alisae why they wouldnt vote ME when they said I was scum.

What is your read of us? You've been saying a lot of negative things about a lot of people and having zero followup.

What is your Maxous read? Why are you saying Alisae hydra should vote you?

I have no read on you. Haven't even paid attention to you because I've been focused on specific people Maria wanted me to read into. And OK, saying negatives and getting rebuttles are the point of the game of mafia, welcome to the game.

I have no read on Max currently as I said I've just been reading certain things. And I clearly just fkin said why. Are you not reading? Nebby said I was scum, why would Nebby not vote someone they call scum. Which is why i was asking.

DO you understand how you are mistaken now?
~G

And who are those people that MariaR asked you about?

The game of mafia isn't about just shading people randomly, which you've done. MariaR also voted Maxous previously, so I find it hard to believe that they weren't a name on your catchup.

Your slot has systemically been moving to attack my townreads for awhile now, but retreats pretty frequently too.

~Titus

[The DEO]

My Max read has nothing to do with what Nero thought of him lol

You can go back to my response to Max's initial push to see that I obviously wasn't content with what he had to say.

Math really hates this Maxous wagon, and but I'm not seeing any scum on it.

[The DEO]

I did sr uzi but then I went to sleep and forgot what the sr was for....eh
VOTE: Max

Btw Vecna I don't really see that but then again you were around with him longer what are the dif's you're seeing?
~Maria

You never asked Gerry to check you here?

[The DEO]

The time she messaged me to check those 2 was before she voted Max, obviously.

Again, your original reason for voting us was a misunderstanding. why not point that out?

It is not an understanding.

You've been systemically attacking my townreads for unfounded reasons for awhile and peeling votes away from Maxous.

[The DEO]

Spoiler: Buddying Spiffeh, Shading me

@Titus I refuse to go another game coordinating night actions unnecessarily after The Thing Mafia. The Thing was different in that everyone's role was public knowledge so it made sense to coordinate night actions and even then, scum had a pretty easy time slipping through the cracks because of every night action being public.

What you're suggesting gives scum a roadmap as to how to proceed during the night JUST like it did in that game.

I still have PTSD
~Maria

I fully expect Gerry to want to take any wonder that has kill in the name....I may not stop him (B
Anyone who is voting art you're insane that's a pro scum choice and science is already explained on why it's trash now we gonna take 10 pages explaining this?
~Maria

What do you think of Titus' case for Sciences?

Lol you call it a case that's cute It's still bad. Why give scum any options at all when we can give them none.
~Maria

Spoiler: Shading Quotes on Leon, Drixx, Uzi, Creature, me, and A and N

Leon is scum by the way he's already acting way dif then he was in dota mafia.
~Maria

Sciences

or none imo Arts helps scum way more than town.

I'm leaning Sciences

so we can all do planning but that could end in mass chaos
~Maria

VOTE: None
Yes science helps town but it also helps scum a lot to plan I'd rather leave the game state as it is there's more town then scum these don't help us and we can get better why give scum any wiggle room at all
~Maria

He's saying

something everyone should understand but doesn't

so he explains it so null he's not doing much but stating obv facts.
Some of these powers have there ups yes but the cons outweigh the pros and we can just wait to get something better this isn't the last chance we'll get to vote on this
~Maria

Leans sciences. Changes mind. Discredits those favoring sciences as stupid.

Interesting when I call you out you just post this funny how it works. I said I was leaning science yes but given the arguments and logic shown it's outright stupid

On page 11 atm I'm feeling something along the lines of:

Tr micky
scummy Luv
Scum Drixx Leon

Sweet jesus if I just say Titus has the biggest dick do I get a tr too cause that seems like how it works
~Maria

VOTE: Uzi
~Maria

I did sr uzi but then I went to sleep and forgot what the sr was for....eh
VOTE: Max

Btw Vecna I don't really see that but then again you were around with him longer what are the dif's you're seeing?
~Maria

I did sr uzi but then I went to sleep and forgot what the sr was for....eh
VOTE: Max

Btw Vecna I don't really see that but then again you were around with him longer what are the dif's you're seeing?
~Maria

Fake read like I thought.

I don't think your scum though.

Mother fucker do you want me to put my vote back on you cause it wasn't fucking fake
~Maria

You can after you sheep me on Leon

Works for me
VOTE: Leon

My reads = mickey mouse said something forced af

I'm iffy on Creature, but want him to post more.

I can see why Maria told me to read Leon and he is a bit scummy to me.

~G

Garrybote I like the Maxous wagon mroe atm.
-Nebby

But you just said I'm scum, why does that matter that you like a wagon

~G

So, what's the deal here? Are you running a shade emporium and trying to divide town or what?

[The DEO]

The time she messaged me to check those 2 was before she voted Max, obviously.

Again, your original reason for voting us was a misunderstanding. why not point that out?

It is not an understanding.

You've been systemically attacking my townreads for unfounded reasons for awhile

and peeling votes away from Maxous.

Unfound reasons? Please quote. Also, you just lied.

VOTE: Sondham

Do you believe Maxous is scum?

Or are you trying to throw more town votes onto his wagon?

~Titus

Titus just contradicted herself, everyone. Her original reason was that I was trying to put more town votes on Maxous. Then she just stated that I've been peeling away votes from his wagon. I think this proves that she's just trying to put pressure on us because our name was being spoken in a negative spot.

Can anyone else tell me what they think? Cause she quite clearly contradicted herself.

~Gerry

Check the post above you. Also, you can cry contradiction but I'm trying to get at what the fuck you're doing in relation to Maxous. It's pretty clear I don't know your intent with anything this game. What are you wanting? More votes on? More votes off? What is your read?

[The DEO]

Hi. everyone here check that The DEO contradiction i just posted pls.

He reason for voting us in the first place was flawed, and clearly she tried to cover it up and contradicted herself in the process.

~Gerry

So you're not actually going to answer what your intent is regarding Maxous. Instead, you're outright shading my intent to solve you. You could just you know answer the question.

You could answer why most of the people you shaded are my hard townreads.

You could answer your current reads. Instead, you want a semantic debate.

It all cared about solving your intent. Now, are you just pissed off you cannot shade the thread or what?

[The DEO]

Ok this conversation is done. It is clear you have zero intent of actually helping me correct any flawed beliefs I have regarding you shading my townreads, but instead are looking for a semantic thing to attack.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Hi. everyone here check that The DEO contradiction i just posted pls.

He reason for voting us in the first place was flawed, and clearly she tried to cover it up and contradicted herself in the process.

~Gerry

So you're not actually going to answer what your intent is regarding Maxous. Instead, you're outright shading my intent to solve you. You could just you know answer the question.

You could answer why most of the people you shaded are my hard townreads.

You could answer your current reads. Instead, you want a semantic debate.

It all cared about solving your intent. Now, are you just pissed off you cannot shade the thread or what?

You don't seem to be trying to solve our slot at all more so as just attacking gerry because he has scumreads are your townreads and your first thought is to vote us? Wouldn't you rather know the reasons he has a scumread on your townread instead of just voting and pressing?
~Maria

You've had all day to explain yourself. All your slot is done is pot shots. A vote should help. It isn't.

I am not stopping you from explaining all the pot shots you have already taken.

[The DEO]

Hi. everyone here check that The DEO contradiction i just posted pls.

He reason for voting us in the first place was flawed, and clearly she tried to cover it up and contradicted herself in the process.

~Gerry

So you're not actually going to answer what your intent is regarding Maxous. Instead, you're outright shading my intent to solve you. You could just you know answer the question.

You could answer why most of the people you shaded are my hard townreads.

You could answer your current reads. Instead, you want a semantic debate.

It all cared about solving your intent. Now, are you just pissed off you cannot shade the thread or what?

You don't seem to be trying to solve our slot at all more so as just attacking gerry because he has scumreads are your townreads and your first thought is to vote us? Wouldn't you rather know the reasons he has a scumread on your townread instead of just voting and pressing?
~Maria

You've had all day to explain yourself. All your slot is done is pot shots. A vote should help. It isn't.

I am not stopping you from explaining all the pot shots you have already taken.

You don't want to talk to Gerry fine I sent him back to his cage talk to me were the same slot you're saying pot shots when I think it's pointing out bad reasons
~Maria

What "bad reason" did Drixx give and why was there no follow through? Why has there been no follow through on any of the comments?

Why can I not get a solid stance from you on Maxous?

p-edit, top of the page.

[The DEO]

So garrybote/Maria.
You obviously scumread The Deo.
But you took so long to vote them.
What gives my dude?

How? I clearly just voted them. I didn't even scumread them until they slipped. At first I wanted more opinions on it, but no one spoke so i just voted them.

~G

Dude, we've been real timing it for five minutes. Just how many people did you think would comment in that timeframe?

[The DEO]

Plus, that kinda suggests you were wanting permission to vote me.

[The DEO]

In the first 2 posts I was making a joke with micky if you wanted to look at the buddy thing I'd shocked you didn't quote the one where I outright cleary said I was buddying him I don't think I was shading you in that post more so as your reasoning was weak so I laughed at it getting called a case
~Maria

And the other 6 or so? Where's your follow through?

[The DEO]

I was reading them hold on now I think the only one of those I would call a shade throw was the one where I said do I have to say you have a big dick to get a townread because whenever someone strokes your ego you seem to tr them (drixx for one) I don't see how you call my Leon things shade when one was making a statement and the other was a fact, How is a naked vote on Uzi and a vote on Max Shade?
~Maria

A shade is any comment that puts a player in a negative light, doubly so when unwarranted. You've been trying to get me, Spiffeh, Drixx, Creature and A and N to turn on each other for awhile now.

Say, what's your Yuki read?

[The DEO]

Maria I think I got that, I'm still waiting for an answer to 905

-Nebby

Can we just lynch Sondam? Do you need me for anything? Spending pages arguing with caught scum is only going to convince players that they are town when they aren't.

[The DEO]

tbh DEO hasn't explained that contradiction at all since gerry brought it up.
Also that's twice now (i think) that Titus has backed down from an argument saying 'i tried to reach out but you don't want to have a discussion with me' in like, a really short amount of time. Usually she'd argue for longer. I've been witness to shit like that. But fuck if she's town I don't want to day 1 1v1 her because i want to enjoy this game

But besides that, Titus's rampant paranoia and making most players actions about her (see: saying a player is attacking her townreads, trying to discredit her, tear apart her townbloc, etc. etc.) is so town!Titus.

Fro99er's whole thing w his scum tell looks genuine enough. and, to clear up a point, my problem wasn't with the self-meta (everybody does it it's not scummy inherently) but with bringing up self-meta to a player you have never played with, in response to me calling a post scummy. Doesn't make sense

Uzi, bro, why am scum for you again

Pedit: Oh DEO there u are, can you explain to me what happened with that contradiction re: the Maxous wagon and Sondam

It's not. You see the question mark. It's a snark way of asking what is going on. What is their goal regarding the maxous wagon, which they don't answer.

[The DEO]

Titus...We're only less then like, 24 hours in the day.
Sure I agree, but give me time to interact with them atleast.
I want to see how they answer my question.
-Nebby

Fair enough. I just want to know if I'm needed. Our hydra has a secret personal (read not in role pm) goal to not be the day's largest poster.

p-edit, wait a minute, you're an alt aren't you Yuki?

[The DEO]

Please don't call me Yuki. And yes

Well, I'm afraid you have me at a personal meta disadvantage. I'm aware my laser focus can sometimes be detrimental. I'm working on that, but as you can tell, I'm no saint nor do I ever pretend to be. I still happen to think you're scum though. Math agrees.

Sorry for the misname Yuri.

[The DEO]

Please don't call me Yuki. And yes

Well, I'm afraid you have me at a personal meta disadvantage. I'm aware my laser focus can sometimes be detrimental. I'm working on that, but as you can tell, I'm no saint nor do I ever pretend to be. I still happen to think you're scum though. Math agrees.

Sorry for the misname Yuri.

Np, np. Thought you were doing it on purpose, is all.

So, with Sondam it really looks like a miscommunication easier from here. If you say something in a 'snarky' way that looks like an accusation, that's not opening up a dialogue to get Sondam to answer about their read. And by the time you started pressuring them for a read, you'd made that contradiction that looked really bad (tbh it still looks bad but I can buy you just saying something that came out strange, since the rest from you guys looks town), so ofc they'd be more concerned with that. If the timing on those is wrong somewhere, lemme know.

As for your scumread, I'm not scum, so what are we gonna do to fix that? And, what's your read on Maxous? You've said you're not scumreading the wagon, though Math is, but what's your read on Maxous themself?
Also Fro99er and Uzi.

We're conflicted on Maxous. Math has Maxous as diehard town, but I cannot see why. We're at a crossroads and our plays are actually overlapping each other. Math seems to be starting from a fixed assertion (which I am not sure if it's wrong) and applying everything to fit that theory, which doesn't work for me. There's also meta this, meta that, which is irking me. I tried to sync up but it just wasn't working tonight. They've basically thrown in with mislynch whoever you want day 1... which isn't helping.

As for "fixing" our read on you, I'm not sure that needs to happen, but let's suppose we are both wrong for a moment. You need more posts like this, engaging. Your earlier posts just left me with an eww feeling that's hard to describe, plus the awkward defense of Vecna.

[The DEO]

I am back. Titus what's the dif between shade and an accusation to you? Of course I'm putting some of those people in a bad light I scumread them why wouldn't I
~Maria

An accusation has teeth, a push to get someone lynched. Shade just makes them look worse without any accountability or fixed position. For instance, your Drixx is scum comment that never was followed up on, and your push on players whenever popular.

I still don't know what your stance on Maxous is.

p-edit 905. We're done talking until you answer it.

[The DEO]

We're conflicted on Maxous. Math has Maxous as diehard town, but I cannot see why. We're at a crossroads and our plays are actually overlapping each other. Math seems to be starting from a fixed assertion (which I am not sure if it's wrong) and applying everything to fit that theory, which doesn't work for me. There's also meta this, meta that, which is irking me. I tried to sync up but it just wasn't working tonight. They've basically thrown in with mislynch whoever you want day 1... which isn't helping.

As for "fixing" our read on you, I'm not sure that needs to happen, but let's suppose we are both wrong for a moment. You need more posts like this, engaging. Your earlier posts just left me with an eww feeling that's hard to describe, plus the awkward defense of Vecna.

This reminds me of an interesting theory about how it's better for town in the long run to accidentally mislynch in day 1, but this game is NOT the place for that conversation lmao

Can't do much about an 'ew' feeling, but the Vecna thing was, as I've already explained, an attempt to get drixx v vecna to stop bc it wasn't productive. I also had a townread on both, Vecna bc of its freak-out about the Science vote. Did you find that part scummy, or null instead?

If you found my last post engaging, what do you actually think about what I said concerning Sondam? Was my progression wrong, do you disagree?

For a second, I thought I had an idea on who you were, but that person would rarely if ever think that interrupting an early T v T to diffuse it was a good thing. (Not alt hunting, just a thought in my head). Sometimes a T v T has to happen for two players to sort each other.

I don't know Vecna well enough to know based on the way he voted his alignment there. I don't know the types of roles he prefers or his long term town planning. All I recall in detail is his recent scumgame. Why are you expecting me to argue, or leading me to argue, that Vecna's disagreement with me is scummy?

I'm going to relook at Sondham based on their future votes and pushes in the thread. Given MariaR's lack of explanation for why Drixx was scummy and some of their other (what I perceive to be and probably is) shading, I'm not inclined to townread them, as retroactive continuity is a thing. I'm waiting for my townreads to comment on the exchange. If my townreads agree, I'll bear down. At this stage, I know I can get over the top, so I need to enable my townreads to push their scumreads.

[The DEO]

imo early TvTs (as opposed to later ones) are nearly always some tiny miscommication or issue that spirals into this big dumb fight that doesnt help anything. Happens in like, 75% of my games and I'm surprised they actually listened when I asked them to stop?? But i'd expect that from drixx at least.

Wasn't even thinking of you when I brought up Vecna's freak-out. I wanted to know how you were reading it, because I read that outburst (the all caps big letter post) as town. Don't care about players personal preferences re: resolution vote all that much.

Before I log off for the night, what are your reads on every slot in the game that you have one for?

[The DEO]

I know some have asked for Mathblade, but I am handling D1 until Math can come up with a non meta read that doesn't depend on Vecna being scum. We've agreed that's for the best, as otherwise, Math will repeatedly be attacking my townblock for disagreeing on her Vecna read. I am not hard clearing Vecna but I have zero interest in lock down drag out fights.

Can we get a prod or something on JC? Sitting this long on the sidelines is unacceptable. If their hydra account works, they should be posting. If it doesn't work, we should know that.

[The DEO]

Alisae/Elbrin, I do not want a Notice wagon. Join me back on Sondham please. I think Notice is town here.

[The DEO]

Alisae/Elbrin, I do not want a Notice wagon. Join me back on Sondham please. I think Notice is town here.

Walk me through the notice read? His dumb tell seemed entirely intentional and just nah I don't like him

I am not hard townreading them yet, but I liked their request for Math and their play minus that. I have been lynched before for derp revealing the second scumteam color....while I was SK and just spoke in abstractions. JaeReed's posting makes sense if you suppose their error was in good faith.

I know Mastina will likely never post, but I would like to see her impact. This sloppy play doesn't make sense in a Mastina coached hydra, yet my hydra with Mastina she made zero posts and no communication so...

[The DEO]

@Uzi, I want to believe you are town, but shading me for not agreeing with the wagon you want isn't cool. I just happen to disagree with your assertion. The behavior you describe is too dumb to be AI. I am not ruling out you being right, but opposing wagons would tell us more IMO.

If you want to be on the same wagon, why not Sondham?

@Sondham, Stop talking about who is annoying, get in sync if you can, and case someone.

[The DEO]

@Uzi, I want to believe you are town, but shading me for not agreeing with the wagon you want isn't cool. I just happen to disagree with your assertion. The behavior you describe is too dumb to be AI. I am not ruling out you being right, but opposing wagons would tell us more IMO.

If you want to be on the same wagon, why not Sondham?

@Sondham, Stop talking about who is annoying, get in sync if you can, and case someone.

Trying to set up a Maxous/Sondham dichotomy at this point looks really scummy. It looks like you are trying to manipulate the wagons instead of letting them develop as the game progresses.

Maxous isn't Uzi's wagon of choice. Notice is.

I am also not setting up anything, but rather letting Uzi push his wagon while I push mine. Having that push helps me sort both of them. If they are TvT, merely saying no doesn't help them recognize each other. If it's T v S, then having Uzi and Notice fight will help me sort that. If it's S v S, I do not give Uzi an escape hatch.

@Uzi, I like the reachout, but I want you to actually resolve Notice and try to bring me a scummy read beyond derping. ^^^Reasons above.

[The DEO]

Lol you think I omgus that's cute Alisae also pere wtf do you mean "a lot tr"
were the biggest wagon right now if anything people sr us more then they tr us I don't even know why people sr us no one said anything besides Titus also Nebby this isn't my vote this is Gerry's he think's DEO is hard scum I'm null on it so I'll trust his judgement if I had my own vote I'd be voting Leon right now
Like you people say it's shade comment when it's legit making accusations I do that all the time and so does he so how is it scummy this game compared to other games like what the fuck thinking is all this
~Maria

Sondam (5): The DEO, Elbirn, Creature, Akane and Nebby, Frogger

You're at L-6, not L-0, so some townreads on you exist.

If you were total scum I'd be voting you now.

If Gerry is out of town for two weeks, why don't you vote who you need to?

Why does this reek of coaching?

[The DEO]

@Sondham 1180 part 1 (Phone posting and omitting irrelevant parts is a pain in the ass).

I don't care if it's how you play or not. If you keep getting wagoned for the same behavior, you should stop doing it and adapt. I want to see you take a strong stance on something or eat rope. You and your hydra partner need to speak with one voice and sort shit out if town. Right now, all I am getting is shade tossing, refusal to commit, dissonance and rage.

[The DEO]

Pere the way you worded it was like saying we have a huge amount of people townreading us when I can name 3 so fix your wording
~Maria

Not trying to rage you, but I will say you can't act like being townread is a right when it's something you earn (or not) each and every game.

It's more so I'm upset that I have no idea what were doing wrong. I don't think we've done anything really scummy sure were a stubborn duo but stubbornness is really NAI

@Sondham 1180 part 1 (Phone posting and omitting irrelevant parts is a pain in the ass).

I don't care if it's how you play or not. If you keep getting wagoned for the same behavior, you should stop doing it and adapt. I want to see you take a strong stance on something or eat rope. You and your hydra partner need to speak with one voice and sort shit out if town. Right now, all I am getting is shade tossing, refusal to commit, dissonance and rage.

TITUS. YOU. KNOW. MY. SCUM. GAME. AND. MY. TOWN. GAME. SO WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU ACTING LIKE I NEED TO CHANGE SOMETHING WHEN THIS IS HOW I ACT AS TOWN
~Maria

This AtE does nothing for me. Town lynched you over my objection in PyP. It was my only wrong read. You know I hate meta. Stop AtEing, especially when you know I am the last person to comment on your meta.

[The DEO]

gerryoat's insistence that Titus contradicted herself and desire for everyone to comment on it comes across as extremely town to me

Titus I do not buy what you're selling there

I also don't think Maria buddying me or "shading" others is particularly scummy

Literally the whole point of the game is to "shade" people and get them lynched, and I know from the The Thing that she buddies people pretty hard as town (Firebringer, EP, etc.)

Dude, it's noise tunneling. I invented it years ago.

I get you disagree but it doesn't help town in the slightest.

The point is to solve the game, not shade randomly and never resolve anything.

Pedit, get to yhe quotewall.

[The DEO]

*it = gerry's tunnelling.

I will be out for awhile. I did not sleep well last night and I got Wednesday game night with Math.

Town
The Deo
Spiffeh
A and N hydra
Drixx
Frogger

Prob town
Creature

Lean Town
Uzi
Leon (but this is admittedly a preflip associative deal)
Noticeme (Titus null, Math has at hard town)

Null/Conflicted Heads
Venca
Nero
Maxous
ABR (need reads from them)

Needs talk would lynch
Ssbm
Ooba
Pine hydra

Lean scum
Yuri
beeboy

Scum

Sodham

That's where I am at before we go. I am factoring in some of Math's reads but that's mostly mine

[The DEO]

Guys, can we fucking lynch Yuri.

He is literally NOT scumhunting whatsoever.

Nor are Sondham, but my town pool seems to want Yuri at the moment.

VOTE: Yuri

[The DEO]

Not to mention he slipped as well, just not as bad as Notice.

Titus I think beeboy is just VI. Hard to explain really but gut tells me he probably isn't scum.

Talk to me tomorrow on this. My sibling will be there as well. Do not mention Vecna.

[The DEO]

I want Spif, Deo, Elbrin, Vecna, Uzi, and Frogger to be my mason buddies.

-Nebby

You are a fool in the process of being endgamed.

This list is comedically horrible.

Like Vecna Frogger Spiffy LUV Yuri is my scumteam read.

~~Math

These are still my reads. Not seeing anything that changes them.

Notice is obvTown. Leave them alone.

~~Math

[The DEO]

My Max read has nothing to do with what Nero thought of him lol

You can go back to my response to Max's initial push to see that I obviously wasn't content with what he had to say.

Math really hates this Maxous wagon, and but I'm not seeing any scum on it.

Maxous wagon is horrible.

Vecna and Frogger need rope after they likely bus Yuri.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Pedit I will do so when I get there. I read the posts now I am responding.

~~Math

[The DEO]

What are the others? The case he had on Spi?

just call him spiff or spiffy or spiffeh, please.

Yes. And also his terrible vote on Yuri. Like I said. i'm pretty sure either Max or Yuri is scum. Just not sure which, but I think Max makes more sense to me.

Scum trying not to bus Yuri.
~~Math

[The DEO]

Also, you really think frogger is going this far to bus and bury his own teammate?

His large case on Yuri does not at all change your perception of who the scumteam might consist of?

Nope.

I once wrote a 4 page wall to bus my teammate in 1800 and Town still wouldn't lynch him. Length is not indicative of alignment. Soft defense of Frogger noted.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Pedit Yes JaeReed is.

~~Math

Pedit2 Not gonna happen pretty sure Frogger is scum.

[The DEO]

I want Spif, Deo, Elbrin, Vecna, Uzi, and Frogger to be my mason buddies.

-Nebby

You are a fool in the process of being endgamed.

This list is comedically horrible.

Like Vecna Frogger Spiffy LUV Yuri is my scumteam read.

~~Math

These are still my reads.

Not seeing anything that changes them.

~~Math

Pedit I will do so when I get there. I read the posts now I am responding.

~~Math

Im sure this is just gonna get shot down as shading again, but why are you confirming nothing has changed your reads yet before you have actually caught up?

This is not shading. You're asking a question that should be able to confirm or dispel suspicions.

Shading is comments and no effort to resolve, like I said.

[The DEO]

tbh DEO hasn't explained that contradiction at all since gerry brought it up.
Also that's twice now (i think) that Titus has backed down from an argument saying 'i tried to reach out but you don't want to have a discussion with me' in like, a really short amount of time. Usually she'd argue for longer. I've been witness to shit like that. But fuck if she's town I don't want to day 1 1v1 her because i want to enjoy this game

But besides that, Titus's rampant paranoia and making most players actions about her (see: saying a player is attacking her townreads, trying to discredit her, tear apart her townbloc, etc. etc.) is so town!Titus.

Fro99er's whole thing w his scum tell looks genuine enough. and, to clear up a point, my problem wasn't with the self-meta (everybody does it it's not scummy inherently) but with bringing up self-meta to a player you have never played with, in response to me calling a post scummy. Doesn't make sense

Uzi, bro, why am scum for you again

Pedit: Oh DEO there u are, can you explain to me what happened with that contradiction re: the Maxous wagon and Sondam

I'm scum reading you because of your opening posts, your push on Frog, and your interactions with A&N. The last sentence of the first paragraph in your 226 pinged me a bit because I believe we were just 10 pages in and you were worried or at least implying you were about people trying to fly under the radar. It doesn't make any sense for town to be thinking that way so early on in the game. It read to me like you had received or had some knowledge about a threat that you couldn't potentially manipulate. Your next two posts (229 and 230) made me think you were also a bit too self aware and realized that the stance you were thinking about taking was going to get you some heat so you decided to gave a bullshit read on Leon and then voted Sciences.

Your entire push on Frog was shit and is classic scum making something out of nothing. The way you were talking to A&N about their love and want for the ability to neighbor makes me think you know they're town. I don't understand why town would call a head of a hydra confirmed town after calling people out on town reading half a hydra.

This is scum v scum.

~~Math

Pedit Titus says I have to leave a wall instead of point out how the scums are all trying to manipulative this game.

*sigh*

That will be tomorrow.

Yes I did. JaeReed is town for it. JaeReed suspects me as he does because Shadowrun. JaeReed makes mechanical derps. I like them but he does. This is town JaeReed.

[The DEO]

Also, you really think frogger is going this far to bus and bury his own teammate?

His large case on Yuri does not at all change your perception of who the scumteam might consist of?

Nope.

I once wrote a 4 page wall to bus my teammate in 1800 and Town still wouldn't lynch him. Length is not indicative of alignment. Soft defense of Frogger noted.

~~Math

Pointing at the flaws in your logic gets reframed to defending Frogger huh?

That is not a flaw in logic of mine.
Post length/effort is not alignment indicative.
I was pointing out yours.

Now I am out Titus. Happy? *glares* Vecna is obv scum.

~~Math

[The DEO]

My Max read has nothing to do with what Nero thought of him lol

You can go back to my response to Max's initial push to see that I obviously wasn't content with what he had to say.

Math really hates this Maxous wagon, and but I'm not seeing any scum on it.

Maxous wagon is horrible.

Vecna and Frogger need rope after they likely bus Yuri.

~~Math

what the fuck is this shit.

I'm really losing my townread on DEO because of this dissonance.

Fuck me. Seriously. Does anyone have any good tips for not fucking up hydra stuff

Somehow get your hydra partner to value syncing up?

Or just different skins...

[The DEO]

Yes Math, youre totally correct. Im scum together with frogger and LUV and hard-defending them out in the open because you caught us. Well done.

And if were all bussing Yuri anyway, go ahead and stick to your reads and vote the slot with us.

Because were all bussing our teammate on day2 of day1. With big walls and a lot of focus (look at me taking credit for Froggers work, but the point remains).

VOTE: Yuri

Go at it then, lets see how much trust you have in your read. Were bussing the slot. Lets speedwagon this.

WOOOOO LETS DRIVE THE BUS VECNA!!!!!

VOTE: Yuri

We are voting there anyway...

But I am happy.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Math and I are trying to sync. They're throwing a fit that I refuse to filter all reads through Vecna scum and demanding independent reads. I'm not sure how long the hydra will last. Math is no longer posting for the rest of the day, or until we can get a unified gameplan, because this is unacceptable.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Math and I are trying to sync. They're throwing a fit that I refuse to filter all reads through Vecna scum and demanding independent reads. I'm not sure how long the hydra will last. Math is no longer posting for the rest of the day, or until we can get a unified gameplan, because this is unacceptable.

~Titus

Well then talk sense to him because I know you have allready noticed that he's wrong

Vecna, nothing you say will help the situation. Math was describing their method as find scum and build the world. I essentially have to strip out the bad in that method and show them the good. They perceive the town groupthink as scum groupthink at the moment. Asking them to picture a world with you town actually upset them emotionally, as if I was ruining their whole game.

[The DEO]

Math and I are trying to sync. They're throwing a fit that I refuse to filter all reads through Vecna scum and demanding independent reads. I'm not sure how long the hydra will last. Math is no longer posting for the rest of the day, or until we can get a unified gameplan, because this is unacceptable.

~Titus

Well then talk sense to him because I know you have allready noticed that he's wrong

Vecna, nothing you say will help the situation. Math was describing their method as find scum and build the world. I essentially have to strip out the bad in that method and show them the good. They perceive the town groupthink as scum groupthink at the moment. Asking them to picture a world with you town actually upset them emotionally, as if I was ruining their whole game.

Sorry to tell you this, but im not sure I buy that for a second

That's why their not posting. Their views make no sense because they are pushing through a likely false premise and do not want to realize they are probably wrong, so they cling on and get emotional. They believe, if I had them post more, that the entire thread would be scumreading you and that meta is the sole valid evidence Day 1.

P-edit - Village Idiot = VI

If Yuri flips scum, I will want Nero's head on a Pike.

[The DEO]

There

SHOULD

be a creature wagon but he's scum so thats why its so hard to wagon him.

Not interested in a Bee or Yuri lynch so I'll join the AN wagon unless a Creature one pops up.

I read the following

I'm not interested in the wagons lead by town, so I'll wagon obvious town players instead.

[The DEO]

Can you at least ask about the Jeareed read Titus? Because the explenation I was given was incomprehensible to me.

Mathblade uses They for the record.

Their explanation is simple. JaeReed derped and derping is their town game. See Shadowrun. (I'm sure they'd have more detail, but that's the gist). 90+ percent of Math's reads today are meta.

[The DEO]

There

SHOULD

be a creature wagon but he's scum so thats why its so hard to wagon him.

Not interested in a Bee or Yuri lynch so I'll join the AN wagon unless a Creature one pops up.

I read the following

I'm not interested in the wagons lead by town, so I'll wagon obvious town players instead.

How do you know so many players alignments?

If I know, then why are you not following me?

P-edit: Look at Street Fighters, we full on brawled there. Meta wise, this is different from Nero but we brawl in every game so I'm trying to give him space. I'm failing at it though.

[The DEO]

Can you at least ask about the Jeareed read Titus? Because the explenation I was given was incomprehensible to me.

Mathblade uses They for the record.

Their explanation is simple. JaeReed derped and derping is their town game. See Shadowrun. (I'm sure they'd have more detail, but that's the gist). 90+ percent of Math's reads today are meta.

Then they should know I'm town.

We haven't spoke at length on you. Right now, if you defend Vecna, Math doesn't like you. Given that's everyone but Math though... :/

[The DEO]

@Titus - Get on the same page with Math. Vecna literally tried to reach out and adjust what people believe about another player's reasoning. That's like ... really anti-town. If I wasn't happy with where I decided to vote, I would vote him.

If you are absolutely certain Vecna is town, please explain why.

I think it would be more helpful if you processed a town Vecna gamestate and a scum Vecna gamestate.

I'm also not quite sure what you're talking about there.

[The DEO]

Can you at least ask about the Jeareed read Titus? Because the explenation I was given was incomprehensible to me.

Mathblade uses They for the record.

Their explanation is simple. JaeReed derped and derping is their town game. See Shadowrun. (I'm sure they'd have more detail, but that's the gist). 90+ percent of Math's reads today are meta.

I've never played with math. Can you ask them the reason for the scumread on me?

You're defending "obvscum" Vecna. That's their reason.

(Quotes are because I disagree.)

~Titus

[The DEO]

Can you at least ask about the Jeareed read Titus? Because the explenation I was given was incomprehensible to me.

Mathblade uses They for the record.

Their explanation is simple. JaeReed derped and derping is their town game. See Shadowrun. (I'm sure they'd have more detail, but that's the gist). 90+ percent of Math's reads today are meta.

I've never played with math. Can you ask them the reason for the scumread on me?

You're defending "obvscum" Vecna. That's their reason.

(Quotes are because I disagree.)

~Titus

But I'm bussing obvscum Yuri?

Got it

Math thinks unless Vecna gets lynched today, he will never be lynched. So they justify it as you bussing Yuri to save Vecna. I told them, well we get scum. They said but Vecna gets away.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Still don't know why I should vote Yuri. No one is even bothering to tell me who he is.

Buddying and awkward defenses.

[The DEO]

Can you at least ask about the Jeareed read Titus? Because the explenation I was given was incomprehensible to me.

Mathblade uses They for the record.

Their explanation is simple. JaeReed derped and derping is their town game. See Shadowrun. (I'm sure they'd have more detail, but that's the gist). 90+ percent of Math's reads today are meta.

I've never played with math. Can you ask them the reason for the scumread on me?

You're defending "obvscum" Vecna. That's their reason.

(Quotes are because I disagree.)

~Titus

But I'm bussing obvscum Yuri?

Got it

Math thinks unless Vecna gets lynched today, he will never be lynched. So they justify it as you bussing Yuri to save Vecna. I told them, well we get scum. They said but Vecna gets away.

~Titus

Wish I had a way of defending myself against the accusations, but it would probably just result in the shutter island scenario of mentally insane people claiming theyre not crazy

Which is why I need time to work with Math. The insane is over the top and insulting to Math as a person, but yes, there is a reason I am keeping Math out of the thread.

[The DEO]

The "stop what you're talking about" thing was a joke relax

I read your case, I see your points, but I think beeboy has a better chance of flipping scum so that is who I will be pushing.

I'd like to talk to you and Uzi about beeboy tomorrow. I kinda agree with his gut thing but my brain agrees with you Spiffeh. My way premature VCA says Yuri.

I'd like to get all of town working together than divided. Both are acceptable to me.

[The DEO]

To be fair, this is very much a towntell for Titus I think (at least something I know for sure she does as town)

Not acknowledging the arguments of others is a town tell for her?

Why couldn't she do this as scum?

Why is this still a question? I was typing addressing your concerns as you typed that.

[The DEO]

The way the votes are split like that between the three makes me wanna believe at least one of those are maf but, I'm more sure on The DEO or Creature being mafia

It's too early for VCA proper, but this is a decent conclusion (minus DEO and Creature being scum). It's null because Sondam isn't actually voting a wagon, which makes me a little side eye.

Let's look at wagon composition.

Yuri: Obvious town (although Math disagrees, as they thinks nearly the entirely off the wagon) that townreads each other (for the most part)
Akane and Nebby: Wagon candidate, previous wagon candidate, wagon candidate, guy with messed up reads at best, lurk shade thrower
Beeboy: New arrival, null town PV, Town, Town

Let's look at history.

Yuri happened.
Beeboy happened.
Akane and Nebby happened.


Now, let's look at the A and N wagon, with each vote... as it happens.

Yuri vote is a vote because Maxous wanted it.
Maxous jumps on A and N with no reason, while trying to drege up an old concern Spiffeh had. Motivation to shade and disrupt.
Beeboy makes a comment (false) that A and N is ok with killing everyone.
Nero Cain casts a naked vote.
ABR casts a vote, but has done zero follow through and investigation.

[end rational logic]

[activate moonlogic powers]

Now, looking at the sheer collective of scummy votes, I can see them pulling a collective decision to have all or almost the scum be on the same wagon. Is that accurate? Maybe, but it is shaping up that way. Nero and ABR both snide my VCA, when town. The motivation to wreck that shit deliberately and save a buddy would be present if all scum. Does that mean all of them are? Not necessarily, but it's something my moon logic, sleep deprived mind wants to document before sleeping.

[The DEO]

Mandatory post of Math head.
Still under Titus post ban 2017.
Will post every two days as required by V/LA status until Titus post ban lifted.

#voteVecna

A&N obvTown counter wagon TBH yuri
Beeboy propped by Spiffeh

*sigh*

Next post in two days might have a wall on it. But until then

#postBansSuck

[The DEO]

Mandatory post of Math head.
Still under Titus post ban 2017.
Will post every two days as required by V/LA status until Titus post ban lifted.

#voteVecna

A&N obvTown counter wagon TBH yuri
Beeboy propped by Spiffeh

*sigh*

Next post in two days might have a wall on it. But until then

#postBansSuck

~~Math

[The DEO]

Hey Gamma modded musical mafia, where's beefboy.

#reactiontest

[The DEO]

We will likely be voting beeboy. I do not want a hammer before Math and I establish our town block.

[The DEO]

And like the whole shit about how I said I wasn't comfortable getting reads because not everyone posted = I am scum, is really bullshit because I have made a good chunk of reads so far this game.

You pushed a scumread here? Where?

You have made like 2 townreads?

[The DEO]

VOTE: ssbm_Kyouko

Why not Yuri here?

Math is yelling beeboy is town at me, yet I am not sold either way. Math says I should TR beeboy after his readwall due to matching reads.

[The DEO]

ABR, Nero, we need you to tell us where we are wrong as if we're five.

[The DEO]

Yes, we are provoking a mini fight with you both. One of us thinks you're derping. The other things you're scum. Tell us to show which.

[The DEO]

I've said Drixx, Maxous, Nero, Spiffeh, Vecna, PV and Fro99er are all likely to be town.
Vecna, and Fro99er just feel like they are genuinely solving the game.
Maxous' thoughts make sense and his pushes seem interesting to make if he was scum.
Nero is town cause meta
PV is also meta.
Drixx's entire play so far screams "investigate me no matter how I play" so he is obvious town.
Also I am pretty sure Uzi is town because his paranoia feels genuine and town and it doesn't really feel like scum who knows my lynch will go through regardless of how he defends me.
I also think the Aero+Pine hydra is town cause I feel like the push they made would be weird af to make as scum.

Though, I agree with your townreads (except Aero+Pine, I'm considering Maxous).

I am at Drixx, Vecna, Frogger, Luz, Spiffeh town.

Math thinks there are three scum in there.

[The DEO]

Akane and Nebby (Alisae & Malachite)
Fro99er
Nero Cain
Yuri

beeboy

The DEO (Titus & Mathblade)

Leonshade

Elbirn

Creature
Drixx

Caesar Wills It (Aeronaut & Pine)

Lil Uzi Vert
Vecna

ssbm_Kyouko
ooba

Maxous
PeregrineV

Sondam (MariaR & gerryoat)

NoticeMeSenpai (JaeReed & mastina)

Albert B. Rampage

Spiffeh

[The DEO]

Is Albert usually like this?

He's usually fighting me by now. So is Nero but considering I don't have experience without them.

[The DEO]

Ali, what do you think of Spiff abandoning the beeboy wagon and still ignoring my Yuri case

I am actually bothered by this too. Math is yelling Spiffeh scum with Yuri. but they're basically like this this my answer work with me or not, which makes me want to ignore them.

[The DEO]

The closest we could come this morning is we have diametrically opposed reads and Math thinks her townreads are derping voting A and N and beeboy and that a counter to scum happened organically, and refuses to reconsider how unlikely that is.

[The DEO]

Ok, beeboy, you think Math is town. Math thinks you're town.

Math thinks they have better reads than you, and they do every game. Compromising, in their mind, always leads to a town lynch. That's even after Thing Mafia where I had them compromise on Goatmeal. Help me out here.

Where do you think Math is right? Where do you think Math is wrong? Why do you think Math is making the mistakes they are?

[The DEO]

Not really opposed to Kyouko wagon.

We should be lynching in the top 3 current wagons imo.

[The DEO]

UNVOTE:

I lied I like beeboy

Vote Yuri for me.

[The DEO]

Senators and citizens, your ruler demands your attention.

It has become apparent that our decree regarding the heathen Vecna has gone unheeded. This is unacceptable. We anticipated that the slower of you might not comprehend the sophistication of Our Pronouncement, but this outright defiance will not be borne. We direct you, our good Senators, to the divisiveness of the criminal Vecna's words, and his attempts to sway this righteous assembly to his malign will. We find these actions most heinous, as well as the manner in which he attacks those who oppose him in general, while attempting to procure the good will of those who suspect him specifically. We have determined that this self-centered attitude does not work to the prosperity of the cities of Rome. Your Emperor again commands all loyal Senators to consider the foul vermin Vecna in this new light, and castigate him with your vote of condemnation.

We have further made the following determinations.

While the Senator known as Creature is most tiresome and wrong-headed in many of his proposed initiatives, we find him to be a most loyal citizen. Our experience with this worthy opponent suggests that his conduct in this conclave, in contrast to other such congregations, has the best interests of the Empire at heart. Nevertheless, we find some of his proposals most disagreeable. In particular, we object to the aspersions he has cast upon the proposed construction of the Pyramids outside Imperial Rome, a project We Your Emperors are considering. We find that this Monument to the Gods will be most useful in perpetuating our lineage and our rule beyond the mortal sphere. Further, we would build this wonder to deny it to those other nations who would use it for ill. Further consultation is required before a decision is made regarding Rome's priorities - a grand series of Hanging Gardens also appeals to Our sophisticated aesthetic senses, and a Statue to Jupiter would allow our wisdom to echo through the ages more effectively. We implore Senator Creature not to close his mind to the beneficial effects of these grand projects out of fear for imagined dangers. Such cowardice is unworthy a Roman Senator.

We have also decided, in Our Wisdom, to grant the boon of our patronage to the Senators Beeboy and DEO. Both of these fine examples of Patrician nobility are doing their best to suss out the enemies of the Empire, and their thinking matches Our Own on many issues. We think We may be friends.

His Imperial Majesty
Augustus Caesar

Your majesty,

One of my personalities has trouble with your edict. I do not view Vecna as a heathen, but Math does.

Can you give a pronouncement on Yuri?

[The DEO]

I lied I like beeboy

LAL!

but real talk, such hostility to my early reads only sorta makes me think I'm on the right track and/or have hit a scummer or two.

I also don't agree with Froggers Yuri case.

Ceasar talk to me about your AN read

What hostility? I asked you to fight me and nothing.

[The DEO]

Also, both heads of ours really want Drixx getting pyramids.

[The DEO]

Titus, have you even read Kyouko's ISO?
How is he not scum.

No. We both have SSM as null, would lynch. We read by interactions and the choices people make.

[The DEO]

I lied I like beeboy

LAL!

but real talk, such hostility to my early reads only sorta makes me think I'm on the right track and/or have hit a scummer or two.

I also don't agree with Froggers Yuri case.

Ceasar talk to me about your AN read

What hostility? I asked you to fight me and nothing.

Nero, tell us where we are right and wrong on reads. As if we are dumber than you have portrayed us as ever.

[The DEO]

Senator Nero, as you have found Us in a charitable mood, we shall deign to reply to your most impertinent query.

As nothing prior to our entrance to the Senate floor could possibly be of any consequence, and your collective blathering is most loud, obnoxious, and long-winded, We have chosen not to review the records of what came before. The eagle does not listen to the braying of the ass.

Regarding our opinion of your fellow Senator, and indeed of yourself, We withhold Our Judgment for the nonce. If their is something in particular you would have Us review, We will consider your request.

Senator DEO, my words should satisfy you as well, and we are likewise willing to listen to your cause.

Senator Nebby, your ignorance and impatience shows your roots as a mere plebian most acutely, and for your rudeness we will more readily lend Our Ears to Senator Nero, should his case be convincing.

The Senate is directed to disregard Our speech impediment.

I don't understand.

[The DEO]

So we could like force the Pyramids owner to claim they got it, and then someone try to sort them.

If someone turns out to be the Pyramids and haven't claimed, we know they're scum.

Exactly. Thus, when massclaim happens, they are in trouble if no choice is never allowed.

Stonehenge should not claim and park on Pyramids if we do not get a Pyramids claim, and maybe if we get one.

[The DEO]

Senator DEO, we have had a higher opinion of your faculties of comprehension than that.

We are withholding Our Opinion of the Senators in question until We form an opinion of Our Own based on what We have Seen. If, however, you wish to present Us with or direct Us to a concise case, We will Listen to you, as We hold you in high regard.

Senator Creature, We find this compromise acceptable, and you again prove that Our Trust in you is valid.

Alright then, later tonight, the following edicts shall issue.

Aristotle Agent (Mathblade) shall issue [in a spoiled edict] their view on the gamestate since day 1, and why they refuse to compromise. Socrates Agent shall issue a similar edict and highlight who is lock clear and who is not.

I do not quite trust you yet, but you are someone scumreading Vecna so maybe you can persuade Math to realize LUV is obvious town and vote Yuri so my fears are allayed.

[The DEO]

So we could like force the Pyramids owner to claim they got it, and then someone try to sort them.

If someone turns out to be the Pyramids and haven't claimed, we know they're scum.

Exactly. Thus, when massclaim happens, they are in trouble if no choice is never allowed.

Stonehenge should not claim and park on Pyramids if we do not get a Pyramids claim, and maybe if we get one.

Why not claim immediatelly?

Because scum Pyramids has zero incentive to claim if town Stonehenge does claim.

[The DEO]

What hostility? I asked you to fight me and nothing.

We've already fought and interacted this game. I still feel like its odd as fuck that you were pushing for a Max wagon but voting elsewhere. Very rarely do I ever agree with you and I think that more times then not I'm right not to agree with you. Like ppl can just read 199 and they should realize you aren't this leet player you think you are. Even if you argue that it was just an off game then I'd still disagree with you and I think you are mostly like that. I'm not really sure if its just immaturity that 'causes you to lash out at me and/or those that don't worship at your feet or what. If you are town this game and we argue its doing nothing but cluttering up the thread and I don't know why you'd want that as town. And if you are scum reading me why are you being so coy about it?

One thing that does kinda bother me is that in 199 Pine and I noticed that buddying you as scum made the most sense (and he did do it) and I wouldn't put it past him to do the same thing here.

Do you struggle with a direct question? I am aware of my weaknesses to buddying. I was never lynching AJ. If Elbrin got shot, I was lynching Pine. I expected Elbrin to follow through. I was wrong. I made an error in that assumption, which made me ready to NL. I still pushed on you when no one else did.

None of that though is relevant. I asked you to give me your reads on the entire gamestate because Math and I being so dissonant. I want your reads, so we can sort you and get an idea on where you stand.

[The DEO]

Mod: A and N are also voting Yuri.

[The DEO]

We could just lynch Spiffy, maybe it might clear Yuri?

LOL

A Spiffeh scumflip would have both of us (Math and I) want Yuri.

@Nero, I want detail. Explain like we're stupid on every slot since you think I am bad. Most of my reads are consensus reads IMO.

I don't want you to attack my skill, I want you to attack my reads.

[The DEO]

Nah if he's scum he could be trying to get on the right side of the lynch since he's been finding ways to avoid the wagon.

Math and I view it as more partner avoidance assuming Spiffeh scum given Spiffeh isn't defending Yuri but rather saying not good enough and trying to start popular counters. Of course, that's a supposition without proof.

[The DEO]

We could just lynch Spiffy, maybe it might clear Yuri?

LOL

A Spiffeh scumflip would have both of us (Math and I) want Yuri.

@Nero, I want detail. Explain like we're stupid on every slot since you think I am bad. Most of my reads are consensus reads IMO.

I don't want you to attack my skill, I want you to attack my reads.

Issue is, besides Math's meta reads, there is no idea where you are coming from.

Rephrase?

[The DEO]

Yes I've ignored Yuri so far

I still haven't checked Fro99er's case, I'm sure that will upset him. Reading Yuri's posts independent of that case doesn't really make me feel any type of way so I'm focusing my effort on people that I think are scummy that aren't really in the lime light (like beeboy).

This shouldn't be news to anyone that this is how I play.

I am extremely tempted to continue ignoring Yuri out of spite.

People read your beeboy case and I discussed it with Mathblade and even tried a poorly executed reaction test to support solving things, yet you cannot even be bothered to engage your townread Frogger? What happened to the guy who thought it was an issue that we didn't address your concerns while we were typing them out?

[The DEO]

Like this is already an 80 page game. I understand that more talk is generally seen as pro-town but I think one needs to find an equilibrium between talk and not bloating a game up. Any talk of lurker pressuring or lurker wagoning is just artificially adding more pages to the game. Sure, if a lurker does flip scum I'm sure that someone will try and paint me as said lurkers buddy but *shrugz* So I think I'm mostly done for the day. I'll respond to direct questioning and I'll tell Frogger why I am not in love with their Yuri case.

You still haven't given those reads I asked for Nero.

[The DEO]

Long days favor scum.

Lynch Yuri today and then come back with a few more reasons for your scum reads tomorrow.

This. I find it Interesting Nero wants a short day, but is not on Yuri, not giving his reads, and not pushing A and N despite me giving him a one shot pass to be as abusive as he wants in telling me every read.

[The DEO]

{ }
{A+N, DEO, Elbirn, PV}
{Creature, LUV}
{Drixx, Vecna}
{Spiff}
{ABR, ooba, ssbm, Nero, Caesar} <-- null line
{Sondam, Leonshade} (not together)
{Notice}
{Maxous,Beeboy}
{}
{Yuri}

A+N, DEO, Frogger, Drixx
Elbrin, Vecna, LUV

Notice, beeboy
Null Line --- Spiffeh (dropped dramatically due to recent posting)
Sodham, Leonshade, ooba, Caesar, Maxous (unlynchable bc Math's biggest TR), PV, SSM (PV unlynchable due to math and TRs TRing him)
ABR, Nero (Math thinks these two are dumb, I do not)

Yuri

[The DEO]

This. I find it Interesting Nero wants a short day, but is not on Yuri, not giving his reads, and not pushing A and N despite me giving him a one shot pass to be as abusive as he wants in telling me every read.

this is hot garbage.

I am still waiting for your reads Nero. My ears are open. Confirmed town (Math) thinks I am an idiot on you. The best way to persuade me Math is worth listening to is giving reads.

[The DEO]

Dropping me as a town read for not talking about Yuri is stupid and you should feel bad

Why? It's a major concern of mine you refuse to address.

[The DEO]

ABR is not playing dumb, not even close.

I agree, which is why ISR him.

[The DEO]

Titus talk to me about ABR. I always think he's scum, and he always thinks i'm scum (despite us being town together in every game we've played) so I'm trying not to let my biases against him take over.

That's why I am not pushing ABR today myself. Let's just say I view ABR as a reason you siteflaked. He's the type of player who calls his scumbuddies retarded. The total lack of fight from ABR is wierd, so I am inviting him in one post to tell me where I am dumb.

[The DEO]

Drixx is taking the treestump.
There is no reason for anyone else to take it

Whoever takes treestump needs to be lynched or vigged as soon as possible.

Town won't give a shit, since they are still in the game, and if scum then they have no vote and won't count against our numbers and will probably not bother posting anyway.

PV, Drixx is taking the treestump and has asked to be cop investigated so he can be a permanent confirmed town voice.
As of now, that's the plan.

Yeah, and that makes sense to you?

I don't see a cop investigation wonder, so how will this be accomplished?

He can be a permanent confirmed town voice by coming in here and be town and stuff.

Stonehenge.

Thereby forcing the one cop investigative to stay locked on one player?

Nah. If Drixx wants no competition for treestump, he can come in and town the shit out of the thread.

Agreed

He has to me. The suggestion itself, combined with locking himself into building Pyramids is pretty fucking town.

The only scenario I can see Drixx as scum is rather moonlogicky AND he would be caught be stonehenge.

Scum burning themselves with no guarantee a follow the cop setup does not arise is dumb.

[The DEO]

PV, why should I be TRing you? Everywhere I go, you seem to be trying to derail me.