Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Leonshade]

Suggestion: We publicly agree on who builds which wonder, so that everyone else can submit no build request and get a higher priority during the next era. Then those player agree on which wonders to build while everyone else sits it out, and so on.

Also, I say Sciences on the resolution.

[Leonshade]

VOTE: Sciences

[Leonshade]

Eh, my idea would certainly be bad with this batch of wonders, no point in publicly deciding who gets the doctor. Idea might be bad in general, but it was something that popped into my mind while reading about build priority in the sign-up thread.

[Leonshade]

Agreed with Math. Picking a resolution to minimize scum harm is playing to not lose. Picking what's best for town is playing to win.

[Leonshade]

Playing to not lose = stalling, defensive play, playing to avoid a loss.

Playing to win = pro-active, offensive play, playing to advance your win condition.

Scum can manipulate the game in all scenarios. Voting none will slightly hinder scum, but it also won't help town. Scum can strategize with five heads, but we can strategize with fifteen. Maximizing town information is good. Vote Sciences.

[Leonshade]

I've made my stance clear, but I'm not going to campaign for it.

Playing to not lose = stalling, defensive play, playing to avoid a loss.

Playing to win = pro-active, offensive play, playing to advance your win condition.

Scum can manipulate the game in all scenarios. Voting none will slightly hinder scum, but it also won't help town. Scum can strategize with five heads, but we can strategize with fifteen. Maximizing town information is good. Vote Sciences.

Where does the setup say five players? *squints eyes*

Anyway, I am in favor of sciences but it is a personal choice on my part. I like the study of votes and their placement. One player one vote simplifies the game for me.

~Titus

Vecna was the first one to bring up five players, why are you only focusing on me?

[Leonshade]

VOTE: None

Town will choose nihilism over science, let's get to playing mafia.

[Leonshade]

I really don't think science is a good idea. And arts is just fucking stupid

Strongly disagreed, science is responsible for great advances to humanity and arts brings joy to our lives.

Also for the people who don't want anything, I got my eye on you.

And I ran out of Lillie's bag cuz I hated Lillie and I found Akane and I like staying in her bag more.

-Nebby

Oh, that's the Nebby you're referencing? Nebby is so cute, your avatar should be a picture of Nebby.

[Leonshade]

Govern: None

None is now ineligible for a vote. You must now pick between sciences and arts.

I'll stop fluffposting once the resolution is over.

[Leonshade]

Sciences

or none imo Arts helps scum way more than town.

I'm leaning Sciences

so we can all do planning but that could end in mass chaos
~Maria

VOTE: None
Yes science helps town but it also helps scum a lot to plan I'd rather leave the game state as it is there's more town then scum these don't help us and we can get better why give scum any wiggle room at all
~Maria

He's saying

something everyone should understand but doesn't

so he explains it so null he's not doing much but stating obv facts.
Some of these powers have there ups yes but the cons outweigh the pros and we can just wait to get something better this isn't the last chance we'll get to vote on this
~Maria

Leans sciences. Changes mind. Discredits those favoring sciences as stupid.

[Leonshade]

Because we don't know how these wonders work.

There is so much we don't know. To assume standard distribution is a

flawed starting point

IMHO.

~~Math

It may be flawed, but does that make it scummy?

[Leonshade]

Sciences

or none imo Arts helps scum way more than town.

I'm leaning Sciences

so we can all do planning but that could end in mass chaos
~Maria

VOTE: None
Yes science helps town but it also helps scum a lot to plan I'd rather leave the game state as it is there's more town then scum these don't help us and we can get better why give scum any wiggle room at all
~Maria

He's saying

something everyone should understand but doesn't

so he explains it so null he's not doing much but stating obv facts.
Some of these powers have there ups yes but the cons outweigh the pros and we can just wait to get something better this isn't the last chance we'll get to vote on this
~Maria

Leans sciences. Changes mind. Discredits those favoring sciences as stupid.

Interesting when I call you out you just post this funny how it works. I said I was leaning science yes but given the arguments and logic shown it's outright stupid

Your read on me has nothing to do with this.

To be fair though, scum is most likely voting none after my first post to avoid drawing attention to themselves.

Maybe 1, max 2 wifom'ing it up by voting science or even art.

Yup, blending in is scummier than drawing attention to yourself by fighting a losing battle.

[Leonshade]

No wonder powers so far have been 1-shot actions either so I also don't feel like playing around that either. (Also if we see a blocked cop whoever takes a roleblocker power would obviously be conf scum.)

Also I am assuming whoever takes the treestump power is scum and will ignore them.

That's why a townie should try to take it, to block scum from getting it.

[Leonshade]

Yuck. The only player that should claim tomorrow is Stonehenge and Treestump. Maybe not Stonehenge.

Why should the Treestump claim? If town, the Treestump drawing the night kill would be better than anyone else.

[Leonshade]

Yuck. The only player that should claim tomorrow is Stonehenge and Treestump. Maybe not Stonehenge.

Why should the Treestump claim? If town, the Treestump drawing the night kill would be better than anyone else.

Treestump hides flip. That's a negative utility that gets claimed. It should only go to people who we insist stay at endgame. There's only one person who has posted that I feel confident as town with that ability (not us).

Is there a reason to hide who that person is?

[Leonshade]

@PV: Yeah and 4 out of those 5 have potential to go seriously wrong.

Really? How so?

- Scum can act like they're a PR by bread crumbing or lay lowing and can trick a town who choose the doctor power to protect them
- Scum benefit if they get to neighborize someone or someone neighorizes them since they not only get information they might have not had but also get to manipulate in private
- Scum can use the cop on death to get an idea of who to kill
- Scum can try to act as vigilante bait and get the vigilante killed

These seem to be based on the idea that town is dumb. And yes, scum getting PRs is bad and town getting them is good, it's not rocket science.

K that's a lie I do have reads. Like Leon, dude, did it really not occur to you why outing every single PR would be a bad idea? Cause normally town just thinks about that by default, and scum have nothin to fear.

I hadn't read how the wonders worked when I posted that, I was mostly thinking about build priority and stopping scummy players from getting PRs.

[Leonshade]

You read about how build priority works and that scum could get PRs, but didn't read how the wonders worked? What info were you missing?

And A&K what's the prob with 245. That's classic Spiff, and besides don't see scum being real obvs about denying town more time to discuss this when he's settled on what the "right" choice is. This isn't a lynch vote. (Which, by the way, I also sorta want to get to because voting people is the fun part)

Pedit: the quote miles

The sign-up thread. It doesn't say that wonders are just regular PRs.

[Leonshade]

Let me rephrase why science is bad for town: Scum is going to have daychat. As soon as they know what wonders come up during the next day, they have -5- persons to strategize how to obtain the most powerfull wonders for themselves.

Any vote for a resolution is a scumvote from here on out.

it is so decreed by me, vecna

Scum will only have daychat if one of their team decides to build the wonder that allows it. That person then has to survive, which makes them easier to spot (assuming we don't do the usual thing where lurkers get allowed to lurk the first few days for no fucking reason). As an added bonus, whenever the mid game mass claim arrives, that person has to lie.

And umm... limit 1 wonder per player means a scum team of

(wait ... you know it's 5???)

your indicated size will get to strategize exactly N-1 times all game (I'm assuming scum take daychat). I can see that being an advantage to them, sure, but there's way more town than scum. Further, scum are the informed minority. Sciences gives everyone extra info and thus closes the information gap. In other words ... your logic needs work.

Bolded: Oh come on, this is just ridiculous.

You seem to understand this setup better than most, and provide my viewpoint more eloquently than I could, but the people want "minimal scum power" over optimal play.

[Leonshade]

Let me rephrase why science is bad for town: Scum is going to have daychat. As soon as they know what wonders come up during the next day, they have -5- persons to strategize how to obtain the most powerfull wonders for themselves.

Any vote for a resolution is a scumvote from here on out.

it is so decreed by me, vecna

Scum will only have daychat if one of their team decides to build the wonder that allows it. That person then has to survive, which makes them easier to spot (assuming we don't do the usual thing where lurkers get allowed to lurk the first few days for no fucking reason). As an added bonus, whenever the mid game mass claim arrives, that person has to lie.

And umm... limit 1 wonder per player means a scum team of

(wait ... you know it's 5???)

your indicated size will get to strategize exactly N-1 times all game (I'm assuming scum take daychat). I can see that being an advantage to them, sure, but there's way more town than scum. Further, scum are the informed minority. Sciences gives everyone extra info and thus closes the information gap. In other words ... your logic needs work.

Bolded: Oh come on, this is just ridiculous.

You seem to understand this setup better than most, and provide my viewpoint more eloquently than I could, but the people want "minimal scum power" over optimal play.

This is unnecessarily douche-y, and I can see the viewpoint for None, but I don't agree that limiting information helps town here. Or maybe more accurately, I don't consider the advance information on Wonders a big deal anyway, as like Drixx said, scum will be picky anyway (and there's only five scum, so town will get more abilities anyway).

[Leonshade]

The sign-up thread. It doesn't say that wonders are just regular PRs.

How does them being regular PRs over... actually, what was the alternative here? What did you think they were?

I was thinking Wonders in Civ, which mostly give passive benefits. I still expected PRs of some sort, but I wasn't really thinking about night kills, just about everyone agreeing on who gets the Wonders.

The idea was stupid but I didn't put much thought into it, my original idea was coming in here and declaring that I'm going to be practicing isolationist politics, at least my dumb idea was game-related.

[Leonshade]

Idk I'm of the opinion scum won't pass up such a good power, daychat is really good and I doubt picking Science will mess with that.

Also this Drixx v Vecna thing is messy and based on mechanics and clashing egos and it sucks.

Yup.

I would assume scum would pick daychat over most powers, but then I don't like playing scum.

[Leonshade]

I don't feel well with MG at town or LUV there yet. Leon also doesn't feel that scummy to me.Care to elaborate?~Titus

LUV -- I thought these two posts were towny

Sciences just leads to distractions. Gives scum an excuse to look like they're doing something.

There is way too much distrust early on for all the power we could gain to even match the fact that scum are informed.

MariaGerry (Sondam) and Leon I've associated as one of the two being scum, or tvt. That wasn't a bus between them. But I think leon is probably scum because his opening post looked really tryhard, but not well thought out, and then quotes like this

Vecna was the first one to bring up five players, why are you only focusing on me?

"but they did it too" type stuff always give me scumvibes.

Also thought 143 wasn't so great a retort to Sondam. Like, "oh I found a contradiction". Here's a fun fact. Town contradict themselves all the time. And Sondam's posts actually looked like a progression to me instead of a contradiction.

BS, that's clearly an attempt to sort DEO, not a deflection. I wanted to know why they would question me, yet ignore another player.

[Leonshade]

VOTE: Fro99er

Haven't read anything since the day started, voting for the scummiest in the resolution phase.

[Leonshade]

Creature is town and I will vehemently oppose all attempts to claim otherwise.

Catching up later.

[Leonshade]

I will join this game once I return to civilization (pun started off unintended). Creature is sprobably still but I'll read that meta beeboy posted.

[Leonshade]

Greetings, I'm back.

Random vote on Nero doesn't help

You discrediting the vote and describing it as random is scummy.
The fact that you didn't try to hear him out is scummy.
Everything about this one line is scummy.

-Nebby

+1 Nebby, -1 Maxous.

576: More good stuff from Nebby.

Actually Frog I'm curious as to why you wrote me off as town so quickly?

I thought you might be. And this paranoia is even more reason you're town.

You just seem to really really believe it's not good for scum to do the science thing. Like you really don't want scum to have any sort of advantage. Your reply to Leon's crappy plan was just the start. Being that strongly against a plan that obviously helps scum and then your conviction the rest of the resolution phase show how against scum you are.

At first I thought the bolded part sounded like a fake reason to TR someone, but after I put more thought into it, I get it. Being so afraid of giving scum an advantage that you go out of your way to argue against any mechanics that might help them, I can see TRing someone if you see that in them.

Vecna was the only TR I got during the resolution phase, and I'm willing to take him at his word that this is LUV's town game.

oooo scary what's next you gonna vote me?
~Maria

My name is Nebby. I evolve into a fucking LION
Hear me rawr

Rawr
-Nebby

...this means war.

[Leonshade]

Spoiler: beeboy's 679

I'm null on Nero. I really liked his 453.

I did sr uzi but then I went to sleep and forgot what the sr was for....eh
VOTE: Max

Btw Vecna I don't really see that but then again you were around with him longer what are the dif's you're seeing?
~Maria

Fake read like I thought.

I don't think your scum though.

I didn't like these.

Because?
-Nebby

453 was really far from anything alignment indicative even if he agreed with it. Fake read is a weird af accusation to make towards a town read.

Agreed on both.

I'm null on Nero. I really liked his 453.

I did sr uzi but then I went to sleep and forgot what the sr was for....eh
VOTE: Max

Btw Vecna I don't really see that but then again you were around with him longer what are the dif's you're seeing?
~Maria

Fake read like I thought.

I don't think your scum though.

I didn't like these.

Because?
-Nebby

453 was really far from anything alignment indicative even if he agreed with it. Fake read is a weird af accusation to make towards a town read.

He says in 453 Nero is null though. "Don't think you're scum" doesn't mean he thinks they're town. Could be sorting them
VOTE: beeboy

I agree with beeboy here, and this seems like a bad reason to scumread someone, anyway.

I want Spif, Deo, Elbrin, Vecna, Uzi, and Frogger to be my mason buddies.

-Nebby

You are a fool in the process of being endgamed.

"I just want people to stop lurking"... said every scum ever.

VOTE: Akane and Nebby

These are ABR's only posts after the resolution phase. Seems like active lurking.

- Nebby

[Leonshade]

I don't know if the contradiction Sondam found is indicative of scum for Titus, but I feel the conviction with which the Gerry-head was pushing it.

At page 37, more later.

- Nebby

[Leonshade]

I'm never going to catch up at this rate, someone tell me why I should vote Yuri.

[Leonshade]

Pushing obvtown A&N for BS reasons, works for me.

VOTE: Yuri

L-1.

[Leonshade]

Town

Akane & Nebby
Creature
Fro99er
Lil Uzi Vert
PeregrineV
Sondam
Vecna

Scum

Yuri
NoticeMeSenpai

That's what I got so far. What I've seen of JaeReed doesn't look like town!JaeReed, so he can join the scumpool. I could also see ABR as scum, popping in just to OMGUS DEO after doing literally nothing for so long looks bad.

[Leonshade]

I looked at Maria's ISO in PYP (I went there to get a look at Vecna's scumgame but I ended up reading Maria's ISO instead) and if that's indicative of Maria's scum game, I think she's town here. She's clearly putting in actual effort here, whereas in PYP it looked like she was just coasting by and not paying as much attention. I also felt that gerry seriously thought that he had found scum with that contradiction of DEO's.

[Leonshade]

I wonder if DEO's hydra dissonance is just scum theater. Titus and Math having a lot of disagreements is believable, but making it so public could be a deliberate move to make the thread unreadable.

I would be skeptic of anyone else townreading me thus far, but I can see it with Math. I looked their reasoning up in their ISO (three pages, jfc) and Math has actually picked up on one of the key differences between my scum and town games, I'm much more cautious as scum.

[Leonshade]

Yeah Notice is town for not shrugging and jumping on the biggest wagon like goddamn seriously??? leon that post u voted me for is half a game ago
and thats also ridiculous bc the games been going for four days but thats still a significant amount of pages
town get #rekt

This isn't a bastard game so you haven't gotten a new role PM in the meantime, if you were scum half a game ago, you're scum now. And the day does need to end, so unless you're willing to wagon your TR Notice, you're going to be my vote for the day. And Notice isn't town just for not quickhammering.

I wonder if DEO's hydra dissonance is just scum theater. Titus and Math having a lot of disagreements is believable, but making it so public could be a deliberate move to make the thread unreadable.

I would be skeptic of anyone else townreading me thus far, but I can see it with Math. I looked their reasoning up in their ISO (three pages, jfc) and Math has actually picked up on one of the key differences between my scum and town games, I'm much more cautious as scum.

lol because I am hunting and trying to solve the game

Another person who sees I am not crazy. Hoorah.

Do you have a question to sort me?

~~Math

I was going to ask about your TR on me, but your ISO answered that. Why do you have Notice as a TR?

[Leonshade]

The short sleepy version is because time zones.
When the game is at his speed JaeReed is okay.
He exhibited (in a small way) freakout over how fast the game was.
In this one none was chosen before he could even speak. Having no agency in a game is demoralizing.
Furthermore he is hydraing with Mastina. Mastina doesn't fake slips and would never ask him to.
JaeReed is honest to a fault. That is who he is. I feel bad for when JaeReed does drawn scum in a game I am Town and has to lie to me.

~~Math

I know how sincere Jae is, but what I've seen from him doesn't feel like that. Don't know about mastina, I'll take your word for it.

WHY does this day need to end leon we have ten days, do u not care to play or something bc the threads clogged with 500 fuckin posts of The DEO Show

That's close, though I want the chance to catch up and I can't do that if there's 25 new pages every day. A flip would also be nice.

[Leonshade]

Creature was already on the wagon.

Drixx would not be an ideal choice for the treestump, I was pinged by their entrance and they seem to be struggling with keeping up with the game state, so even if they're town they wouldn't be the best choice. Creature would be my first choice. Vecna is another good one, but I'd be at least a bit paranoid about Vecna, whereas Creature is easy to read.

[Leonshade]

What about 10/10?

[Leonshade]

This is sorta how I feel right now.

Yuri

(5):

Lil Uzi Vert

,

The DEO, Akane and Nebby, Vecna

,

Fro99er

Akane and Nebby

(5):

Yuri, Maxous, beeboy, Nero Cain, Albert B. Rampage

beeboy

(4):

ssbm_Kyouko, PeregrineV

,

Spiffeh, Creature

NoticeMeSenpa

i (1):

Elbirn

The DEO

(1):

Sondam

Fro99er

(1):

Leonshade

Sondam

(1):

Drixx

Not Voting (3):

Caesar Wills It, ooba, NoticeMeSenpa

I only agree on LUV, Sondam and PV.

P-edit: Ahh I understand.

[Leonshade]

If they already had the gimmick in mind before getting their role PM, the roleplaying is NAI.

[Leonshade]

Sorry, I didn't really pay attention.

Notice, are you opposing Yuri wagon?

I don't even know man. I'm saying I want more opinions than just the 5 loudest people in the thread drowning out everyfucking one else and forcing everything to happen their way or no way. I don't want another 20+ pages to have to read when I wake, and I don't want another catch up where I feel extremely uncomfortable because of someone doing something that I think it's just toxic towards another person. I've been reading this all day after hitting my head last night and I'm cranky, nauseated, headachey, dizzy, and I don't have the patience to hold back my opinion on some people if certain behaviours continue.

I'm saying I'm not happy with the number of people I don't have sorted, nor the way people are trying to rush the day or control where the votes go so it's not a natural progression of things. I'm not happy with the way some things are getting completely ignored and not even discussed or asked about. I'm not happy with the way people want to end the day when 2 people declared intent to catch up and we have an actual chance to get a better read on those slots too.

Yeah, this is scum AtE. Complaining about game length and out-of-game things because they are things JaeReed can show honest emotion about, since he has to fake everything else.

[Leonshade]

You people talk too much.

UNVOTE:

Yuri trying to get people to shut up is pro-town, this bloated game inherently favors scum.

Someone tell me why I should vote beeboy. I could go for ABR, but I just want a flip so town can have at least some common ground.

[Leonshade]

VOTE: ABR

I'll go for scum over info.

[Leonshade]

Gameplay like Uzi's are the reason we're going to mislynch today.

Nah, if we're mislynching today it's because you could write a thesis in the time it takes to read and analyze 167+ pages of garbage.

beeboy's ABR vote looks like survivalism, but that doesn't make him scum.

[Leonshade]

Give me something that makes beeboy scum, I haven't read most of it. If there's a case in your ISO I'll read it.

[Leonshade]

If ABR flips town everyone on that wagon loses all credibility for the rest of the game

[Leonshade]

Weird that we're still in the ancient era, you'd think that the middle ages are a better representation of a lack of progress.

[Leonshade]

VOTE: beeboy

L-1.

[Leonshade]

Ah fuck.

VOTE: beeboy

L-1.

What changed your mind?

I never had beeboy as town. I checked out your ISO and your case is largely based on meta, but you're town here so I'm willing to sheep you.

Also doubting my ABR SR. Their play seems consistent now that they've explained their viewpoint.

But most importantly: we need a flip.

[Leonshade]

Wow, Cultural is horrible. Not a big fan of Natural, either.

VOTE: None

[Leonshade]

The likelihood that a wonder from a previous age wasn't built is low, so Natural isn't likely to be that useful anyway. Slight scum advantage since they have a bit more info as to what was built.

[Leonshade]

That Beeboy lynch why??

I kinda feel like there's a ton of scum in the loud posters that artificially dragged the day to create town apathy.

Probably, though our loudest players tend to be active regardless of alignment.

This is the reason I was paranoid of the DEO slot, but I do agree that Titus and MathBlade probably wouldn't use this tactic.

[Leonshade]

VOTE: Cultural

Troll.

A+N or DEO is the days lynch. EOD.

vote:Natural

Nah.

The likelihood that a wonder from a previous age wasn't built is low, so Natural isn't likely to be that useful anyway. Slight scum advantage since they have a bit more info as to what was built.

This is bad. Natural is for each era.

~~Math

I realize that. It might end up mattering in the late game, I'll reconsider.

[Leonshade]

This is the reason I was paranoid of the DEO slot, but I do agree that Titus and MathBlade probably wouldn't use this tactic.

What do you think is the town motivation for Math and Titus to publicly argue with each other?

It's personality, not alignment.

[Leonshade]

VOTE: Cult
~Maria

Lol

Why do people want Culture again?
-Nebby

So what if scum know what pr's/wonders are built what's the big deal if we know what were built and it becomes public less room for fake claims.

So you were opposed to town and scum having equal access to which PRs are available the next Day, but you want scum to know exactly which PRs town has?

[Leonshade]

VOTE: Cult
~Maria

Lol

Why do people want Culture again?
-Nebby

So what if scum know what pr's/wonders are built what's the big deal if we know what were built and it becomes public less room for fake claims.

So you were opposed to town and scum having equal access to which PRs are available the next Day, but you want scum to know exactly which PRs town has?

You can plan with science if scum know what pr's were built what are they gonna do choose a dif nk target? What could they possibly do?

Hunt for town PRs. There's also no town benefit to it (unless we could also get Natural and build former wonders that way).

[Leonshade]

@Leon who are you scum reading atm?

NoticeMeSenpai. There could also be scum in ABR/Yuri, but I don't feel confident about either.

[Leonshade]

How about nobody other than Drixx claims whether or not they built a wonder? Treestump being the exception.

[Leonshade]

Okay, if someone turns out to be treestump, we know it's scum and we just ignore them.

Stop saying wrong and bad things

I think town agreed they would leave The Pyramids for Drixx. Also, scum would want to be janitored upon being lynched, so why not pick The Pyramids for themselves?

Very few people agreed that Drixx should get Pyramids.

[Leonshade]

@Leon

@Leon who are you scum reading atm?

NoticeMeSenpai. There could also be scum in ABR/Yuri, but I don't feel confident about either.

Elaborate on all of these.

Notice because JaeReed doesn't seem like my experience with town!JaeReed, and he's a transparent player who doesn't really vary his style so that makes me think he's scum here. I also think he makes long rants with AtE/complaining about non-game things because that's the only thing he, uncomfortable with lying, feels comfortable talking about.

ABR and Yuri were both popular wagons that got diverted, while the beeboy lynch was pushed through much easier, so I feel that the difficulty with lynching one of them could be due to them being scum (Vecna was also a popular wagon but I'm TRing them). I wouldn't support a Yuri wagon, as their seemed towny during/after they were close to being lynched, and I was only really scumreading ABR because I thought his early inactivity was deliberate.

[Leonshade]

The Hanging Gardens - Doctor
The Pyramids - Self-Janitor Treestump
Mausoleum of Halicarnassus - Temporary Neighborizer
Stonehenger - Public Death Cop
Statue of Zeus - 1-shot passive Self-Redirector
The Great Lighthouse - Encryptor

The Oracle - 1-shot Yes/No Setup Asker (?)
Petra - Tracker
The Colossus - Permanent 1-shot Neighborizer
Terracity Army - 1-shot Vigilante
The Pantheon - Doctor

What a nice

IIOA

you have there.

Shallow tell. Collecting info into one, quotable post is pro-town, anyway.

[Leonshade]

I like wagoning Caesar to sort him, easy to hide behind the gimmick otherwise.

[Leonshade]

I've seen all-town wagons on scum and all scum on a scum wagon, but never saw an all scum on a town wagon.

I (think I) have, but definitely not in a large game. I think the beeboy wagon was pushed largely by town, with some opportunistic scum also piling on.

Nero Cain - Town
The DEO - Town
Caesar Wills It - Would lynch it
Lil Uzi Vert - Town
Vecna - Town
davesaz - Would lynch it
Maxous - idk
Sondam - Would lynch it
NoticeMeSenpai - idk

Agreed on most (scum on Notice, town on Sondam, null on Nero).

[Leonshade]

I hate many of the proposed lynch options so far.

Vecna is the only one I'd consider that has been mentioned so far.

Without rereading their ISO's to clarify my position (which I hope to do later) right now I'm looking at davesaz, Leon, Caesar for scum

I support dave and Caesar.

Why did you stop SRing me?

[Leonshade]

VOTE: Natural

DEO makes a good case.

[Leonshade]

I think all of {DEO, ABR, PeregrineV, Creature, Sondam}

I have lesser town reads on {A&N, Nero Cain, Yuri, Drixx, Uzi, Vecna, Elbirn}

Which leaves me {NoticeMeSenpai, davesaz, ssbm_Kyouko, Leonshade, Maxous, Caesar}

What were your reads prebeeboy lynch and who changed because of it?

~~Math

Mathblade I'm ignoring all of your posts from now in if that wasn't clear

Same with Uzi

I'm not dealing with your ridiculous suspicions of me and reading your posts about me make angry enough to want to insult both of you instead of actually scumhunt which is toxic to the gamestate and in the grand scheme of things makes me useless

So don't expect that question to get answered

That's a very reasonable question to just ignore.

I will comply with players I feel are town and being reasonable to work with.

Right now that aren't many. I'm starting with ABR and Maria and hopefully that group grows.

What are you defining reasonable as? Because from an outside perspective it looks like you consider reasonable "doesn't scumread me and agreed with my reads".

[Leonshade]

While the Senator known as Creature is most tiresome and wrong-headed in many of his proposed initiatives, we find him to be a most loyal citizen. Our experience with this worthy opponent suggests that his conduct in this conclave, in contrast to other such congregations, has the best interests of the Empire at heart. Nevertheless, we find some of his proposals most disagreeable. In particular, we object to the aspersions he has cast upon the proposed construction of the Pyramids outside Imperial Rome, a project We Your Emperors are considering. We find that this Monument to the Gods will be most useful in perpetuating our lineage and our rule beyond the mortal sphere. Further, we would build this wonder to deny it to those other nations who would use it for ill. Further consultation is required before a decision is made regarding Rome's priorities - a grand series of Hanging Gardens also appeals to Our sophisticated aesthetic senses, and a Statue to Jupiter would allow our wisdom to echo through the ages more effectively. We implore Senator Creature not to close his mind to the beneficial effects of these grand projects out of fear for imagined dangers. Such cowardice is unworthy a Roman Senator.

This is bad.

"Creature is town but here are the long-winded, wordy reasons why he is wrong about these roles"

I see no point in saying this unless you want to give the impression that you're contributing more than you are. It's not like anyone was actively agreeing with what Creature was saying so what's the point in devoting all these words to it?

Good catch.

@Leon

@Leon who are you scum reading atm?

NoticeMeSenpai. There could also be scum in ABR/Yuri, but I don't feel confident about either.

Elaborate on all of these.

Notice because JaeReed doesn't seem like my experience with town!JaeReed, and he's a transparent player who doesn't really vary his style so that makes me think he's scum here. I also think he makes long rants with AtE/complaining about non-game things because that's the only thing he, uncomfortable with lying, feels comfortable talking about.

ABR and Yuri were both popular wagons that got diverted, while the beeboy lynch was pushed through much easier, so I feel that the difficulty with lynching one of them could be due to them being scum (Vecna was also a popular wagon but I'm TRing them). I wouldn't support a Yuri wagon, as their seemed towny during/after they were close to being lynched, and I was only really scumreading ABR because I thought his early inactivity was deliberate.

You don't actually know me enough to say that, we're not friends, so stop talking like you know me. Also, I do vary my style quite fucking often, so no. You have literally been in one game and saw me replace into one where I hurt a friend and became a little more subdued after that. And still proceeded to step on the toes of another friend. You trying to say you know my meta based off one game where I was a mason and another where I fucked up and hurt my friends is disingenous as fuck.

And complaining about the pace of the game is definitely a game related thing. So is complaining about the toxicity and gaslighting exhibited by certain players. Is it AI? No, or at least I don't think so in my case, but it is certainly game related. < Yes I understand this is semantics it just bugged me.

Yuri was a consensus wagon for a pretty long time and no one bothered to hard derail it for so long that I don't think they're scum. Only thing I'm wary of there is their defense of me but I think the emotional responses were genuine. ABR is town because he sees the same shit from Vecna that I do, was kinda waffling on this early game because his early game in Shadowrun was more aggressive but the push to derail the Yuri shit was good.

Talk to me about your TR on Vecna? This whole thing feels like grapes all over again.

First off, I apologize if I was coming off like I know your mindset. My intention was to comment on your play, nothing more.

I'm also counting Undertale mafia since I was still following it after my death. I think I explained more clearly in an earlier post, but I interpret your technically game-related, but not game-advancing comments about game length and such as active lurking, the appearance of contributing while not really doing so.

I see what you're saying about Yuri's wagon, but the lack of a visible derail could be caution on the part of his buddies, if they are scum (which, mind you, I doubt at this point).

My Vecna-read was solidified during resolution phase, he made such a strong push for None, and a case for the other two being anti-town, that I think it came from a genuine place. My reads have also been similar to his and I haven't yet had a reason to doubt my TR on him.

How do you feel about A&N and LUV, ABR's other two SRs?

[Leonshade]

So you think I'm scum and you call me "confbias". These two things don't go together.

So you're saying that Confbias can only come from town?
-Nebby

Nero does have a good point, scum can't confbias. Though they may appear/put on the appearance of confbias if they're trying to push someone.

Bee was obvious town man. Entrance alone should have put all doubt to the side. I want to lynch Spiffy today.

VOTE: None

No. Spiffeh is town.

Why?

[Leonshade]

Oh, Pine is one half of a hydra. That doesn't change much for me though.

Why not, if you're voting him based solely on his low vote count?

@ mostly Brain and anyone else

pls vote Nebby.

They are scum b/c they tried to blame ABR for the Yuri wagon dissipating when it wasn't his fault. When I pointed this out they said that that wasn't what they were arguing. When I posted quotes of them arguing exactly that (4444 they didn't reply. He then goes on to call me confbias while still calling me scum. It doesn't make sense so I feel like they are scum that know that I am town. He then argued that there was nothing to respond to in 4444. While yes, 4444 doesn't ask a direct question, I find it oddly convenient that they have no response to the crux of my case.

Counterpoint: He's a VI (my words) but Spiff thinks that her blaming ABR comes from bad town and the Maria head of Sodom think she wouldn't be this mind boggingly stupid (embellishment mine)

Your counterpoint is my viewpoint.

[Leonshade]

FoS: Caesar

They seem to be the major wagon so I'll wait for a VC before voting.

[Leonshade]

Why not, if you're voting him based solely on his low vote count?

Because skimming the hydra's iso just showed more of the same roleplaying activity. To be honest, I haven't read any of it in depth, and town are likely to get drowned out by noise, especially in a game as large as this one. I just don't see any reason to move my vote elsewhere, especially since I've seen scum do weird things to obfuscate their alignment, like spoilering each individual response in a wall response or [reiterating?] information with strange formatting.

Also, you're fos'ing them and waiting to vote them yourself. Why is that?

Similar reasons, I don't consider the roleplaying inherently scummy but it's easy to hide behind it, so I want to pressure the slot to sort them.

ABR's views on the game really do differ heavily from my own, I'm just not sure if town would so blatantly go against the grain on just about everything.

[Leonshade]

@mod: Even though this is implied in the first post with antitown factions only have night chat....

Can you please confirm every player starts off as Vanilla?

There are no roles inherent to any slots in this game.

Note that this deliberate wording does not preclude scum being able to draft their own powers in secret. Crackpot theory: Scum can choose which Natural Wonders to take advantage of.

But far more likely is that everyone is on equal footing here.

[Leonshade]

So I just read Pine's ISO and he's clearly town.
I have no idea what people are yapping about there.

Do explain, I don't see it.

@Vecna:

Is everyone crossed out townreads? Or just people you're not interested in lynching.

[Leonshade]

Why not, if you're voting him based solely on his low vote count?

Because skimming the hydra's iso just showed more of the same roleplaying activity. To be honest, I haven't read any of it in depth, and town are likely to get drowned out by noise, especially in a game as large as this one. I just don't see any reason to move my vote elsewhere, especially since I've seen scum do weird things to obfuscate their alignment, like spoilering each individual response in a wall response or [reiterating?] information with strange formatting.

Also, you're fos'ing them and waiting to vote them yourself. Why is that?

Similar reasons, I don't consider the roleplaying inherently scummy but it's easy to hide behind it, so I want to pressure the slot to sort them.

ABR's views on the game really do differ heavily from my own, I'm just not sure if town would so blatantly go against the grain on just about everything.

He's null and I want him pressured.

[Leonshade]

VOTE: Caesar

DEO, you could have just... not claimed Stonehenge.

[Leonshade]

Pyramids claim now.

Maxous /Spiffeh are you Pyramids?

PYRAMIDS SHOULDN'T CLAIM AT ALL

HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT

What do you want done with the Stonehenge, now that the slot is public and useless otherwise?

[Leonshade]

VOTE: Caesar

DEO, you could have just... not claimed Stonehenge.

Why are you voting for Caesar?

Leon answer this.

Why not, if you're voting him based solely on his low vote count?

Because skimming the hydra's iso just showed more of the same roleplaying activity. To be honest, I haven't read any of it in depth, and town are likely to get drowned out by noise, especially in a game as large as this one. I just don't see any reason to move my vote elsewhere, especially since I've seen scum do weird things to obfuscate their alignment, like spoilering each individual response in a wall response or [reiterating?] information with strange formatting.

Also, you're fos'ing them and waiting to vote them yourself. Why is that?

Similar reasons, I don't consider the roleplaying inherently scummy but it's easy to hide behind it, so I want to pressure the slot to sort them.

ABR's views on the game really do differ heavily from my own, I'm just not sure if town would so blatantly go against the grain on just about everything.

He's null and I want him pressured.

[Leonshade]

DEO honestly just needs to stop posting.

Nothing either head is doing is helpful right now. Titus keeps arguing with ABR and is now proposing a ridiculous plan, Mathblade has a set scum team in their mind and constructs a narrative based on those assumptions when it should be the other way around.

Stop acknowledging them, they're not "leading" town, they don't decide anything.

Gonna keep quoting this until people start ignoring them.

DEO talks a big game about town unity yet they fucking expect a ridiculous plan that they didn't run by anyone to go through and for no one to question it.

They're so full of shit.

JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE LARGEST POST COUNT DOESN'T MEAN THEY HAVE ANY AUTHORITY

How does getting mad help us? Suggest something concrete instead of just calling people bad.

[Leonshade]

Like, do the asking questions thingy?
-Nebby

When I have questions, I will. I want a wagon (which there is) so the attention will be on Caesar instead of him hiding in the sidelines.

[Leonshade]

VOTE: Leonshade

answer my questions.

[Leonshade]

Leon I encourage you to look at Kyouko and Elbrin's ISO.
-Nebby

Kyouko's been largely a non-factor, but that jump on beeboy was really weak. His vote never changed and the scumread was never explained, either.

Kyouko:

Why did you SR beeboy?

VOTE: Leonshade

answer my questions.

Your question was pure fluff and will receive no worthwhile answer from me so I don't see why you asked it.

Your position on Caesar is an easy one to have. I am sketched out that when I asked you who your scum reads were you listed Notice, ABR, and Yuri, yet you've pushed none of them today. ABR is even a viable lynch at this point and you're no where to be found. Notice is being largely overlooked but you're doing nothing about it.

So why is your vote on Caesar more useful for pressure when they're completely absent than pressuring people you are scum reading?

I see.

I'm not scumreading Yuri anymore, as I've stated. I've had interactions with Notice today. ABR is a viable wagon, but the DAy's been going for less than 24 hours, we're not in a hurry to consolidate to a single wagon.

[Leonshade]

Is that a real claim PV?

[Leonshade]

Ahh, PV's trolling, carry on.

[Leonshade]

VOTE: ABR

This game is devolving into ABR vs DEO... again.

ABR, why are you throwing your vote around so much? Is there more purpose to it than antagonizing Titus/MathBlade?

[Leonshade]

ABR's views on the game really do differ heavily from my own, I'm just not sure if town would so blatantly go against the grain on just about everything.

not all town are going to see the gamestate the same way. In fact, I'd argue that the more people that see the gamestate the exact same way prob means that there's scum coasting.

"Town" is supposed to say "scum" there. I agree with you, it's the fact that he's pushing an alternate viewpoint so hard that makes me doubt my SR.

[Leonshade]

Hmmm those colours didnt quite come out the way they looked on the coloured palet.

ABR is my top priority lynch. Followed by Davesaz and Elbirn.

And then followed by Kyouko/Ceasar at a bit of a distance.

VOTE: Albert B Rampage

Is there a reason you want him lynched other than him being disruptive to the gamestate? I see a lot of people stating they want him dead, but not for anything that makes me believe they think he's scum.

Also, if it lands on scum, who cares if the Caesar wagon is a poor information lynch?

How confident are you that a Caesar lynch would flip scum? Is he your only scumread thus far?

[Leonshade]

davesaz might be scum?
his last couple of posts were kinda weird...trying to look town more than

being

town

Here's my quote regarding Davesaz.
He seems more reserved and willing to please than usual...not a strong read but it's there.

I don't know how anybody can be scum-reading Pine honestly.

You keep dodging the question of why you townread Pine.

[Leonshade]

Page 227

Was I force-replaced?

Creature I really do not understand how you get just about half of your conclusions.
-Nebby

And yes, Spiffeh doesn't replace out for that reason as scum.

[Leonshade]

Page 227

Was I force-replaced?

Creature I really do not understand how you get just about half of your conclusions.
-Nebby

And yes, Spiffeh doesn't replace out for that reason as scum.

I am seen scum replace outs and Town ones because I kept tunneling.

I will keep it under advisement and not vote Spiffeh today but I still scum read him pretty hard.

He replaced out because he was frustrated with what he felt was stupid town play. As scum, why would he have replaced out? The game would've been going great for him.

[Leonshade]

I am a mighty lion.
Hear me rawr.

-Nebby

There's only one lion here.
Gonna check out your Elbrin case later.

Hmm, I like Notice's response to me. I may have just gotten the idea that Jae = scum and confbiased their complaints into scummy when they're probably NAI.

[Leonshade]

Leon I encourage you to look at Kyouko and Elbrin's ISO.
-Nebby

Kyouko's been largely a non-factor, but that jump on beeboy was really weak. His vote never changed and the scumread was never explained, either.

Kyouko:

Why did you SR beeboy?

Didn't you just read my ISO? It's in the post in which I voted him. He misrepped something that LUV said and painted LUV scummy for it ("I don't like...")

I'm null on Nero. I really liked his 453.

I did sr uzi but then I went to sleep and forgot what the sr was for....eh
VOTE: Max

Btw Vecna I don't really see that but then again you were around with him longer what are the dif's you're seeing?
~Maria

Fake read like I thought.

I don't think your scum though.

I didn't like these.

Because?
-Nebby

453 was really far from anything alignment indicative even if he agreed with it. Fake read is a weird af accusation to make towards a town read.

He says in 453 Nero is null though. "Don't think you're scum" doesn't mean he thinks they're town. Could be sorting them
VOTE: beeboy

That's it? I thought that jump-on was weird at the time and you never changed your vote, that was your top scumread all day?

[Leonshade]

The Vecna-wagon sucks and there's guaranteed to be scum on it.

So Uhh you guys want to Lynch Kyouko yet?
How many times does he gotta pop into the thread and say jackshit?

I could go for some Kyouko, but ABR should go today.

[Leonshade]

I am a mighty lion.
Hear me rawr.

-Nebby

There's only one lion here.
Gonna check out your Elbrin case later.

Hmm, I like Notice's response to me. I may have just gotten the idea that Jae = scum and confbiased their complaints into scummy when they're probably NAI.

I think i understand what you meant here, and I felt the same way. Which once again shows me we have the same thought process. Good.

(That is, if youre just not simply copying me since everything we think is creepily similair )

Didn't even realize you felt the same (assuming you're talking about Notice and not the lion thing).

Town (unordered)
davesaz
Akane and Nebby
Nero Cain
Yuri
MathBlade
Vecna
Brian Skies
nancy

Townish
Creature
Caesar Wills It

Not sorted
Leonshade
Elbirn
ssbm_Kyouko
Maxous
PeregrineV
Sondam
NoticeMeSenpai

Scum
Lil Uzi Vert
Albert B. Rampage

VOTE: ABR

I like this list, though I disagree with LUV as scum.

[Leonshade]

Because I see them actually trying to reach agreement and compromise if necessary with other players. It doesn't scream scum at me to the point that I'd want to wagon it.

Why wouldn't scum want to appease town?

Senator nancy, let it not be said that Caesar neglects His citizens cries for counsel and succor. Ask, and ye shall receive.

We are at present fairly certain of the loyalties of the good Senators Mathblade, Nero Cain, and Creature, though We are frustrated with the stubborn insistence on wrong-headed proposals by the last.

We also have a modicum of respect for the intentions of Senators Senpai, davesaz, Brian Skies, and Maxous, though these perceptions remain under review.

Of late we have grown concerned with the conduct of Senators Leonshade, Sondam, and perhaps the representatives from Akane and Nebby. Our Judgment of these personages shall be inevitable, but fair. Be it said that they are not yet convicted in Our Sight.

We are yet of two minds concerning the villains Yuri and Rampage, convincing cases for both having been presented before the throne. It is Our intention to decide their fate within a day's time, but we are leaning towards conviction of both.

Finally, We have heretofore rendered Judgment against the barbarian Vecna, and it is the responsibility of all good Senators to cast their vote for this criminal's demise.

If presented with respect for Our Station, noble Caesar shall hear petitions for details concerning any of the aforementioned. Those not discussed have made little impression upon Us yet.

Mostly reasonable reads, though I'd like to hear about the TR on Maxous and Skies. Do you believe that Vecna and ABR could be scum together? My Lord

half-hearted bow

.

[Leonshade]

At the moment I suspect Yuri, ABR, ssbm, Vecna, and Leonshade of conspiring against the Senate in that order of likelihood.

Why are you voting for Vecna if you're more convinced of ABR?

Senator nancy, if you have not yet left the Senate chambers, would you clarify for the assembly whether your list of suspicions ascends or descends in suspected disloyalty? We find your suspicions largely in line with Our Own, but the priority of yon list is ambiguous. If this call does not reach you before your visit to Hypnos, son of Nyx and Erebus, We shall await your reply when you next greet Aurora, She of the Dawn.

Senator Leonshade, we find your queries to somewhat affirm our ill feelings toward you, as they seem to convey information when they in fact do not. We are concerned that this demonstrates an attempt to appear more interested in the welfare of Imperial Rome than you are. Nevertheless, We shall expound.

Senators Maxous and Skies have entered Our preliminary Good Graces due to what appears to be concerted efforts to root out treason and betrayal among their fellow Senators. They have some distance to go before fully earning Our Confidence, but for now they merit a modicum of Trust.

We find it possible that the heinous Vecna might conspire with Senator Rampage, as the former's antipathy towards the latter appears feigned in hindsight. We again point out that the dubious rage with which the vile Vecna castigated Senator Rampage at the end of the first Senatorial session has largely evaporated, consigned to mere dislike and half-hearted probes against him, easily distracted when new targets, such as Senator Maxous or Ourself are presented.

In short, aye. We find the prospect of a foul alliance between the two to be a possibility worthy of further study. As they teach in the Legion, however, leave the planning of tomorrow's battle until after today's Victory is achieved.

Huh, you're the first one who has commented on Vecna v. ABR looking fake. I'm taking it at face value myself, and I think there is at most one scum in Vecna/ABR. I'm TRing Vecna, hence my vote on the ABR wagon.

I've seen Maxous doing some scumhunting, even if I largely disagree with their reads, but I'm less sure on Skies at the moment. It's why I've been prodding at them constantly.

[Leonshade]

At this point I'm more confident that Kyouko will flip scum than ABR, but I'm also confident that Vecna will flip town and I don't want his lynch to happen.

[Leonshade]

Ive provided plenty of material this game for your read to be based on other stuff that isnt gu

yes you have but that doesn't make my reason that

I had a gut scum read on you and then you tried to laugh it off (and I think thats a scummy reaction)

any less valid. Also your self vote is just scum

ATE

. Like if you were really concerned with sheep voting and junk you'd be wary as hell of the Cesar and ABR wagons.

I think I've seen you use this as a scumtell as town before (WWE Mafia maybe?) but I'd like to know why you think it's scummy. Why wouldn't town laugh off someone's gut SR?

[Leonshade]

VOTE: SSBM_Kyouko

We could always try.

[Leonshade]

Bah whatever

VOTE: Vecna

7 votes I guess

Why the vote change?

[Leonshade]

I TR Creature, but I don't remember him stating an SR on Vecna and the Kyouko wagon was gaining momentum.

[Leonshade]

Lynch Vote 2.09

Vecna (7):

Caesar Wills It

,

Nero Cain

,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Elbirn

,

Brian Skies

,

nancy

,

Creature

Albert B. Rampage (4):

Lil Uzi Vert

,

Mathblade

,

Vecna

,

davesaz

ssbm_Kyouko (4):

Yuri

,

Leonshade

,

Maxous

,

Akane and Nebby

Caesar Wills It (1):

NoticeMeSenpai

Creature (1):

Sondam

Not Voting (2):

ssbm_Kyouko

,

PeregrineV

With 19 players alive, it takes 10 to lynch by majority.
Lynch deadline is in (expired on 2017-02-28 16:35:13), at which point we will default to no lynch.

[Leonshade]

What made you start scum reading me Leon?

It's a scumlean, not as strong as the other two. It's mostly gut, but it's been growing on me all day.

[Leonshade]

ok but why?

A lot of your reads ignore things that I consider obvtown (like still scumreading Math and nancy after their respective replace outs). I also feel that there's scum on the Vecna wagon, and you're the scummiest after ABR.

[Leonshade]

Making a note at bottom of 247: why did ssbm-kuyoko wagon take off all of a sudden?

Multiple players have been scumreading them, but they never seemed like a viable wagon before. Unfortunately the wagon stalled.

like still scumreading Math and nancy after their respective replace outs)

Why are Titus' and Spiff replaceouts obvtown?

Spiffeh replaced out because of the claims and other things he perceived as stupid play, which he'd have no reason to do if he was scum (as stupid town play would be advantageous to them). The slot hasn't seemed scummy otherwise, either.

The DEO's public arguments, leading to one of them replacing out, were either a particularly devious and unsportsmanlike scum tactic, or town. I don't believe the former is at all likely, therefore the slot is town. Otherwise, what's the motivation to replace out there? If their tactic was working as planned (and it was, they were a near-universal TR), they could have easily kept it going.

[Leonshade]

Yeah, that was my only reason. It's also not lame in context of when I placed it

in 5852 when u were asked why u SRed beeboy you literally gave that one instance and nothing else so yeah
if you had other reasons lets see em

Wtf, you literally quoted the post where I said that was my only reason for voting beeboy and asked if I had other reasons. I didn't, and that was fine at the time I placed that vote. It was Night by the time I got back to the site

^VOTE: Yuri

Yeah, Kyouko is scum. Let's lynch them D3.

VOTE: ABR

[Leonshade]

I don't think you're scum Vecna, but most of your last couple pages show that you don't want to die more than that you're town.

[Leonshade]

And Creature and A&N's jumps on your wagon are sketchy, but do you think that the scumteam is ABR/Caesar/Creature/A&N? I doubt the scumteam would make themselves that obvious just to get you lynched.

[Leonshade]

Oh

[Leonshade]

@Kyouko:

Your vote on beeboy was for a really weak reason, though I didn't realize before checking your ISO again just now how little time passed between you voting for him and disappearing. Still don't like the vote but my belief that you clutched on to it for too long was mistaken.

And now we have to figure out if Vecna's replace out is because he's frustrated town about to be mislynched for what it perceives to be stupid ideas. Or if he's frustrated scum for both of the wagons. And it's not here to answer any questions. *sigh*

Leon says that replacing out while frustrated is obv town.*



I am being hyperbolic here but his stance's that the Titus head and Spiffy replacing out make them obv town seems p silly to me.

If the frustration could only happen to town, yes. Why would scum!Spiffeh be frustrated by town playing poorly? Why would scum!Titus be frustrated by the hydra dissonance with Math if that was a planned strategy? Vecna's replace out is NAI since either town or scum could be frustrated by being close to being lynched, but neither Spiffeh nor Titus were being pushed, and were both popular TRs. People don't tend to replace out for in-game reasons if the game is going really well.

[Leonshade]

There were several ppl, me included, that were scum reading Spiff.

+ Spiff is like the worlds biggest baby if he's town.

This seems to support my conclusion? Why would Spiffeh replace out there if scum? He didn't seem busy, there didn't seem to be any interpersonal drama etc. that might have made him replace out as scum. Replace outs are NAI if they are for out-of-game reasons or for reasons either town or scum might replace out for, but I don't see this as either of those.

[Leonshade]

Dave because he's a scumread of mine.
Also
VOTE: Vecna
-Nebby

This post concerns me very much for other reasons.

Did you do what I did in Shadowrun? This would make so much sense if BaeReed is scum.

Holy fuck.

Enlighten the rest of us, what did you do in Shadowrun?

[Leonshade]

This seems to support my conclusion?

Does it? How do you know he's town. Does he have a history of replacing out when frustrated?

I don't know, this was my first game with him. You're the one who brought up his town meta.

[Leonshade]

holy misrep batman!

Spiff is like the worlds biggest baby

if he's town

.

this has fuck all to do with meta.

"if he's town" so it's literally his town meta according to you.

I just wish Vecna was here because this Vecna wagon now feels like garbage.

maybe we can lynch Creature then?

No.

[Leonshade]

"if he's town" so it's literally his town meta according to you.

no its fucking not. I'm saying that if he's town and replaced out of a game this large and bloated since there was atleast one real claim and one maybe fake claim I'm saying that that's immature as hell. I don't think I've played with Spiff recently at all. How would I know his meta?

Ohhh I thought you were saying "Spiffeh tends to be a big baby as he's town" not "if he was town in this game, he's a big baby".

leon/creature/sodam/dave/????? team?

All town except maybe Dave. Why did you stop scumreading Vecna?

[Leonshade]

"if he's town" so it's literally his town meta according to you.

no its fucking not. I'm saying that if he's town and replaced out of a game this large and bloated since there was atleast one real claim and one maybe fake claim I'm saying that that's immature as hell. I don't think I've played with Spiff recently at all. How would I know his meta?

Ohhh I thought you were saying "Spiffeh tends to be a big baby as town" not "if he was town in this game, he's a big baby".

EBWOP.

[Leonshade]

Why did you stop scumreading Vecna?

I didn't. I have too many scumreads and not enough scum slots for them all.

You don't think Vecna could be part of the team you outlined?

[Leonshade]

Caught up, AMA.

[Leonshade]

My name is Leonshade.
My quest is to seek

the Holy Grail

scum.
My favorite color is purple.

My name is Leonshade because my zodiac sign is Leo and shadowy stuff sounded cool to me when I was 12/13, which is when I came up with the name.

[Leonshade]

A&N is still town, it would take a lot for me to change this read.

nancy you've been quiet lately.

So has everyone else, why single out nancy here?

[Leonshade]

Assuming all my townreads are correct, my PoE is down to {ABR, Nero, Elbirn, Brian Skies, Caesar, ssbm_Kyouko, Maxous, Senpai}. Senpai is the first one I'd take off that list, bringing it down to seven people. I feel strongest about ABR and Kyouko being scum, so I'll put my tentative scumteam at those two and three others from the above list.

[Leonshade]

You can, I would've followed up if I had a problem with your answer.

[Leonshade]

There really has been no reason to townread the slot, could just be people sheeping DEO/Math's strong TR for it.

[Leonshade]

Leon, you say you continue to TR A&N - dont you find their recent behaviour very strange?

1)

-Townreading me all game, when im close to a hammer they suddenly vote me with no explenation

2)

-When questioned about it, they claim its because they reset all their reads

3)

-In their new reads im suddenly scum, but brian skies and Elbirn who did nothing in this period are their strongest townreads now.

4)

-When asked to explain any of this they flat-out refuse, using some weakass wifom too scum-to-be-scum type of answer and asking whether we really feel scum would do this the way they did.

1)

I did find this weird, from both A&N and Creature. But they were both strong TRs before that point and they're both the type of player I would expect to have quick read changes as town.

2)

Their ISO does show them mentioning a read reset prior to their vote on you. I've never done one, and the concept seems weird to me, but it doesn't mean they're scum.

3)

Don't know about Skies, I do remember them mentioning some of Elbirn's posts looking town recently.

4)

Yeah, that could easily be scum trying to avoid explaining their reads. But it could also be town with legitimate reasons, and I have thoughts about what those ~reasons~ could be. There's a good reason to hide them if so, but if I find out otherwise I'd be willing to reconsider my read on them.

A&N's behavior is pretty weird and anti-town at spots, but I still think they're town here, if playing rather lynchbaity (which I hear is common for Alisae).
.

[Leonshade]

I wonder if Leon is scum or if his reads are just assbackwards.

A+N is sketchy as F (enter he's a vi comments and he does this as town so he must be town!" and Creature just is flying so low under the radar and avoiding really making any waves.

Hey, that's my thoughts on you.

There's probably scum flying under the radar, but I think it's Kyouko plus others, definitely not Creature. Creature is not drastically different from any of his other town games, in at least one of which I SR'd him for scummier behavior than any he's exhibited this game.

[Leonshade]

I wonder if Leon is scum or if his reads are just assbackwards.

A+N is sketchy as F (enter he's a vi comments and he does this as town so he must be town!" and Creature just is flying so low under the radar and avoiding really making any waves.

Hey, that's my thoughts on you.

There's probably scum flying under the radar, but I think it's Kyouko plus others, definitely not Creature. Creature is not drastically different from any of his other town games, in at least one of which I SR'd him for scummier behavior than any he's exhibited this game.

[Leonshade]

Yuri you need to reset your read on be.
Cuz you're suffering from conf bias
-Nebby

are you suddenly townreading me lmao

I'm in the process of resetting my read on you cuz your recent posting was towny.
You're making me think my dude.
-Nebby

....
...
...
..
.
VOTE: Vecna
-Nebby

Hmm, that's the only reset A&N mentions before the vote. It does come out of nowhere.

[Leonshade]

I sort of agree with leon that A&N was appearing quite town before this, but I also feel he's not really giving significant meaning to the sudden complete 180 on my slot.

Creature did the same, and i really don't think this is Creature's scum game. And if I think one town player can do it, there's no reason for me to think that another one wouldn't.

[Leonshade]

how is this Smackdown Creature?

I don't know, Creature got lynched before I got drafted to Smackdown. I was thinking of Dota Mafia as a game where I was TRing him, then started questioning my read.

[Leonshade]

Leonshade might be scum yeah.
I'm coming round on that.

Do explain.

Hope ABR gets back soon, the game is stalling and we need action.

[Leonshade]

Weird that we're still in the classical era, you'd think that the middle ages are a better representation of a lack of progress.

[Leonshade]

Glad that that other game is over Leon. The weird thinkbig CC to scum almost made me suspicious of you in this game since your play is so similar.

Now I can just continue to townread you and be happy that our thoughts match so closely.

I'm not really happy with my play in this game thus far, especially compared to a game like Code Geass. I hope I can get more into it as the game advances.

I think town!Creature and town!Maria have SR'd each other in every game I've been in with them, makes me feel good about my TR on both.

Maxous seems different from Undertale, but not in a different way. I'm reading their play as more disengaged than scummy, but even so I don't have much to TR.

[Leonshade]

there is a vig in play tonight. Vig ABR/ABR targets Math/Math targets whomever. Though the "scum will fuck with that" crowd will be in full force.

So you want to use the vig... to enable a different vig? The vig could just kill whoever we would want ABR to target instead of wasting a PR.

[Leonshade]

PeregrineV is pretty cool when he's active. Zero reason to believe the sign-up list is the priority list, the order people sign up for the game isn't random and I assume the priority list is.

ABR's claim could be rolefishing, but I believe it. Doesn't make him town, the role has a bit of anti-vig utility and stopping town from getting it is a big deal. Also has some WIFOM possibilities. ABR's pretty much never getting shot now, so I don't see what people are waiting that requires us to hold off the lynch.

[Leonshade]

Also this Kyouko flashwagon is lol and making me second guess my SR on him.
-Nebby

Same, if ABR flips scum Kyouko is probably town.

Luv, if ABR flips town who do we lynch and why?

Luv, if ABR flips town who do we lynch and why?

We'll figure it out.

^
scum that knows ABR is town

Not even close. Your play in general is looking like chainsaw defense/stalling tactics for ABR's lynch.

[Leonshade]

Please tell me that Brian's vote is a hammer.

It is! Life is good.

[Leonshade]

Ssbm is scum. This has nothing to do with ABR.

If ABR is scum, the flashwagon has a lot to do with them. Though it could be scum WIFOM.

Brian's naked hammer after defending ABR and scumreading Vecna and claiming they can't be partners doesn't impress me by the way.

[Leonshade]

VOTE: Nay

Machu Picchu makes me happy we didn't pick Science, holy shit.

[Leonshade]

Nah.

Though if sheeping smart town means voting Kyouko, I'm down.

[Leonshade]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=70313

My recently finished scum game with Alisae, it's the real reason I've been townreading them. Their play here is not their scum play.

[Leonshade]

I don't think a town vig would've shot PV so he's pretty likely to be town.

[Leonshade]

nancy, Akane and Nebby, ssbm_Kyouko, Brian Skies

Okay, scum are there and should be sorted somehow.

Kyouko and maybe Brian.

A&N and nancy are both town.

[Leonshade]

Vigilante refrained from shooting.

Let's see if he'll use it or if he's a scum vigilante keeping his shot to endgame us.

There's a doc in play, so I'm not ruling out the possibility of a vig shot yet. Though with so many players a correct doc is much less likely.

Town vig saving the shot seems unlikely, unless they want to put the shot to a vote or whatever.

[Leonshade]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=70313

My recently finished scum game with Alisae, it's the real reason I've been townreading them. Their play here is not their scum play.

Read this game if you scumread Ali, he's not confident enough in his scumgame to play like he has here.

[Leonshade]

Spoiler: Brian's read progression on ABR

ABR is always manipulative. It's one of his more endearing traits.

Hmmm those colours didnt quite come out the way they looked on the coloured palet.

ABR is my top priority lynch. Followed by Davesaz and Elbirn.

And then followed by Kyouko/Ceasar at a bit of a distance.

VOTE: Albert B Rampage

Is there a reason you want him lynched other than him being disruptive to the gamestate? I see a lot of people stating they want him dead, but not for anything that makes me believe they think he's scum.

Also, if it lands on scum, who cares if the Caesar wagon is a poor information lynch?

VOTE: Creature

I've fallen behind. But I do think Vecna was town flailing in response to the pressure of his wagon. I didn't like Creature saying he liked the Kyouko wagon and then jumping to Vecna before it could materialize. I also didn't like him asking who should volunteer to be lynched in the event Vecna flipped scum.

I don't know why people are townreading Uzi. A lot of his comments surrounding setup speculation is scummy. He says most of the abilities are bad and that town shouldn't invest in them, which could be scum hoping to skate by with for a few nights with relatively powerless town while scum get a better shot at getting the more concerning roles. He also had a crumb as early as page 25, so I feel the whole argument of ABR pushing a scumread on him for faking a claim to be either insincere or misguided. I thought maybe Vecna was a partner, but I can kind of see a townie just wanting to hold onto a shitty meta read.

I think A+N is town. I like most of their early posting and don't understand why people scumread them. I also have a townread on Yuri.

I'm busy today, but will return later tonight.

VOTE: Albert

@Brian Skies:

Why did you hammer ABR?

[Leonshade]

Vigilante refrained from shooting.

Let's see if he'll use it or if he's a scum vigilante keeping his shot to endgame us.

There's a doc in play, so I'm not ruling out the possibility of a vig shot yet. Though with so many players a correct doc is much less likely.

Town vig saving the shot seems unlikely, unless they want to put the shot to a vote or whatever.

really hoping theres 2 docs in play by now.

I also find it rather.....peculiar that scum just happen to hit the treestump straight away like that. I dont want to believe they would sac one of their own, but we cannot completely discount it.

Also, woops (ABR)

Thoughts like these are why I still TR you, you think scarily similar to me at times.

Scum could've gotten the vig and refrained from vigging to kill PV so they could create the illusion that he was a scum-motivated NK. It's a pretty far-fetched idea so I didn't bring it up, and it seems like a waste of an NK to do it as early as N2 anyway.

[Leonshade]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=70313

My recently finished scum game with Alisae, it's the real reason I've been townreading them. Their play here is not their scum play.

Read this game if you scumread Ali, he's not confident enough in his scumgame to play like he has here.

There may be some hydra dissonance in the mix, or weird OP-vig distortion in the game im referring to, but I still feel he plays very different from how he played in Code Geass as town.

He was in a hydra in the scumgame too (and doing most of the posting both there and here), I don't think Ali is similar to his Code Geass self, but he's even further away from his scum play.

[Leonshade]

Assuming all my townreads are correct, my PoE is down to {

ABR

, Nero, Elbirn, Brian Skies, Caesar, ssbm_Kyouko, Maxous, Senpai}. Senpai is the first one I'd take off that list, bringing it down to seven people. I feel strongest about ABR and Kyouko being scum, so I'll put my tentative scumteam at those two and three others from the above list.

ABR's townflip makes me rethink my Nero read too. Top SR is Kyouko, and I like Brian after that. Unless Creature is right about only four scum, I would guess that there's also scum in my TRs.

[Leonshade]

Add davesaz to the above scumpool.

[Leonshade]

Why does it make you rethink Nero? This white knighting as scum seems just up his alley.

Don't have any scum meta of Nero, but you're right that he could still be scum. I just had him in mind as a likely ABR buddy so the townflip made me reconsider. Gotta check his ISO to see why he was TRing ABR.

[Leonshade]

>

All players have been

privately assigned a priority value which they are unaware of

. This value determines who successfully builds a Wonder if multiple people submit a build request for the same structure.

@Math:

I found conclusive proof that your theory is wrong. The opening post is neither private, nor something players are unaware of.

[Leonshade]

MathBlade: Yae sucks VOTE: Nay
Yuri: Yae bad VOTE: Nay
Brian Skies: Not allowing it VOTE: Nay

Sondam: WTF, I want to be able to build two wonders

VOTE: Yae
Nero Cain: No VOTE: Nay

Only good thing about Machu Picchu is that now we can tell the difference between mafia kills and vig shots.

[Leonshade]

Though they can still use a non-Machu Picchu player to kill if they want to.

[Leonshade]

VOTE: Kyouko

how do you know what their scum play looks like?

Because I just finished a game with scum!Leon as his scum buddy
-Nebby

link

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=70313

My recently finished scum game with Alisae, it's the real reason I've been townreading them. Their play here is not their scum play.

Read this game if you scumread Ali, he's not confident enough in his scumgame to play like he has here.

[Leonshade]

Their play here is not their scum play.

how do you know what their scum play looks like?

vote:Nay

Wait, you quoted the exact post where I gave the link!

[Leonshade]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=70313

My recently finished scum game with Alisae, it's the real reason I've been townreading them.

Their play here is not their scum play.

How did you even manage to crop out the answer for the very question you're asking?

[Leonshade]

Add davesaz to the above scumpool.

What do you think of dave's push on Creature upon replacing in and then backing out becuase townreads wanted them to?
-Nebby

I don't remember this, but I'll check it out.

ssbm

, A+N, Nancy, Leon,

Brian Skies

-slots that were on both mislynch wagons.

Lines up well with my suspicions.

[Leonshade]

yes, I missed the link. You two chuckleheads throwing shade on me for asking for a link is pretty silly.

You also asked a question, but cropped out the answer to that question from the very same post. An error, sure, but it suggests that you could just be looking for things to question, rather than trying to actually scumhunt.

[Leonshade]

but it suggests that you could just be looking for things to question, rather than trying to actually scumhunt.

If you believed that I haven't been scumhunting at this point and you've yet to call me out on this then it prob means that

YOU

are scum.

I just called it out, and I've expressed suspicion of you before.

[Leonshade]

Putting on the appearance of scumhunting?

That post of yours was a tell, you questioned a statement when the answer was given in the sentence right next to it. That's a sign of selective reading, which scum are more likely to do than town. I haven't seen you be that obvious before, since my scumread previously was based on other things.

[Leonshade]

PereV having Pyramids threw me for another loop

because I was pretty sure Spiffeh had it and they replaced because they were mad math was trying to PoE who had the wonder by getting everyone else to say no

.h

I thought the same thing, though PV with his self-massclaim was my second guess. Third guess was that scum got it.

Please tell me that Brian's vote is a hammer.

It is! Life is good.

Spoiler: Brian's read progression on ABR

ABR is always manipulative. It's one of his more endearing traits.

Hmmm those colours didnt quite come out the way they looked on the coloured palet.

ABR is my top priority lynch. Followed by Davesaz and Elbirn.

And then followed by Kyouko/Ceasar at a bit of a distance.

VOTE: Albert B Rampage

Is there a reason you want him lynched other than him being disruptive to the gamestate? I see a lot of people stating they want him dead, but not for anything that makes me believe they think he's scum.

Also, if it lands on scum, who cares if the Caesar wagon is a poor information lynch?

VOTE: Creature

I've fallen behind. But I do think Vecna was town flailing in response to the pressure of his wagon. I didn't like Creature saying he liked the Kyouko wagon and then jumping to Vecna before it could materialize. I also didn't like him asking who should volunteer to be lynched in the event Vecna flipped scum.

I don't know why people are townreading Uzi. A lot of his comments surrounding setup speculation is scummy. He says most of the abilities are bad and that town shouldn't invest in them, which could be scum hoping to skate by with for a few nights with relatively powerless town while scum get a better shot at getting the more concerning roles. He also had a crumb as early as page 25, so I feel the whole argument of ABR pushing a scumread on him for faking a claim to be either insincere or misguided. I thought maybe Vecna was a partner, but I can kind of see a townie just wanting to hold onto a shitty meta read.

I think A+N is town. I like most of their early posting and don't understand why people scumread them. I also have a townread on Yuri.

I'm busy today, but will return later tonight.

VOTE: Albert

@Brian Skies:

Why did you hammer ABR?

Leon, talk to me about this? The relief over the hammer to stop the shitposting to blaming Brian for the lynch seems disingenuous.

I made this post almost immediately after my reaction to the hammer:

Ssbm is scum. This has nothing to do with ABR.

If ABR is scum, the flashwagon has a lot to do with them. Though it could be scum WIFOM.

Brian's naked hammer after defending ABR and scumreading Vecna and claiming they can't be partners doesn't impress me by the way.

I'm not blaming Brian for the lynch, but I think his hammer was suspicious.

[Leonshade]

Have we settled on scum?

Or is MathBlade gonna lead town to more mislynches?

Sniping townies doesn't help anyone.

Do you townread Sondam?

If yes, why?
If not, why are you not voting?

I do, mainly because of their D1 play. They've done nothing for the past two days, but I haven't yet reached the point where I'd need to start doubting my townreads.

Btw, we should try to lynch scum today, it would be pretty awkward to have a LyLo with 11 players left.

^
slip that there are 5 scum left.

"Scumslips" like that post come from town at least as often as scum.

[Leonshade]

Alisae and Creature aren't scum, but Kyouko or maybe davesaz should be the leading wagon.

[Leonshade]

Ali, do you still think Kyouko is scum? Because I think we should lynch Kyouko.

[Leonshade]

Shame

[Leonshade]

I really don't think Creature is scum here, even if his scum game has gotten better I don't think he can keep it up like he has here.

davesaz could be scum, but it's nothing I'm confident about.

I'm not even incredibly confident about Kyouko, but he's at the top of my list. All the counterwagons suggested today (Creature, Sondam, Alisae) I'm townreading.

[Leonshade]

Lynch Vote 2.20

Albert B. Rampage

(10):

Lil Uzi Vert

,

Vecna

,

davesaz

,

Leonshade, MathBlade

,

Caesar Wills It

,

nancy, Akane and Nebby

,

ssbm_Kyouko, Brian Skies

ssbm_Kyouko

(6):

Yuri, Maxous

,

Creature

,

Nero Cain

,

Albert B. Rampage

,

PeregrineV

Creature (2):

Sondam[/color]

Maxous (1):

NoticeMeSenpai[/color]

Lil Uzi Vert

(1):

Elbirn

[Leonshade]

Creature's wagon interactions are utterly horrible and now he's just spouting AtE. This is scum. Vote it.

Once I have doubted my Creature TR for similar reasons (Dota Mafia). Never again.

[Leonshade]

Yeah if you're talking about this game there is no similarity whatsoever. So I am calling bullshit on that. Creature is scum.

Check out Code Geass if you want to see Creature in a large game. His game solving wasn't the greatest there and he seemed similarly lost to some of the mechanics there as he does here. Dota I used as an example of his reactions to a wagon on him seeming scummy.

Your problem isn't on what you're doing, it's on what you're not doing.

It's

how

i'm not doing what I'm not doing that is the dead giveaway. If I'm totally upfront about saying I don't know who is scum, I'm being honest. What alignment is honest?

And how are we supposed to know you're being honest? I don't understand the point you're getting at, in any case.

VOTE: LUV

[Leonshade]

I'd like to hear anyone provide a single reason to TR Brian Skies that isn't "pyramids".

Creature isn't scum here. I'm less certain of LUV, but I don't scumread him based on his play thus far. I can buy him genuinely losing interest after his main SR was wrong.

Looks like we can't get a Kyouko wagon going.

VOTE: Brian Skies

[Leonshade]

@nancy:

I don't agree at all that Drixx was towny, he didn't do much and what he did was NAI.

[Leonshade]

Creature and Sondam having their usual TvT spat, let's wagon someone else.

[Leonshade]

Because he's town.

VOTE: davesaz

[Leonshade]

Creature ignores me whenever I say you're town, both in Dota Mafia and here.

[Leonshade]

Senpai is town as fuck for 7593, single-handedly course-correcting the game state.

[Leonshade]

@nancy:

What made your TR on me change?

Brian's reads list is meh, and calling nancy "manipulative" is not a read. Nothing about their recent activity compels me to doubt my SR there.

[Leonshade]

A Maxous wagon does not fill me with confidence. He's in my PoE pool but I haven't really seen a reason to scumread him. I think there's scum floating under the radar, but I'd rather lynch in dave/Brian/Kyouko than Maxous.

Opinions on Caesar Wills It?

Do you think he's scum going under the radar or does he have a real life problem rn?

His inactivity is NAI, it doesn't look like Pine is actively avoiding the thread. There are quite a few players flying under the radar and I don't know how to sort them when nobody wants to wagon them.

[Leonshade]

Creature and Sondam having their usual TvT spat, let's wagon someone else.

I don't actually agree with this, I thought mariaRs response to getting wagoned was very scummy and in line with how ive seen her scum playstyle respond to pressure.

I don't think I have any scum meta with Maria, but her response didn't seem far off from how I'd expect town!Maria to respond. I think Maria's frustration at Creature is genuine, though I suppose it could come from scum!Maria annoyed at Creature.

And yes, Drixx being the reason Brian is allowed to so blatantly fly under the radar is really frustrating.

[Leonshade]

Why can't we just wagon the scumcloud? Pretend Drixx didn't exist and look at his ISO. He defends ABR but later naked hammers him and to this day hasn't stated why he did so. He spends the early days of D2 doing nothing and then shows up just to defend himself. His vote-hopping seems to make little sense based on his stated reads, and he's otherwise doing just the bare minimum to get by.

There hasn't been a strong wagon all day, I think this game state is the result of scum hanging back and letting town argue with each other. Brian is easily the most blatant example of such behavior in this game yet 90% of you are letting him off the hook because of one post from Drixx.

VOTE: Brian Skies

[Leonshade]

excuse me if I don't trust the reads of someone that has been on both mislynches.

Also I find it hard to believe that a town Math is so dejected that she's goinf to play from the sidelines.

I'll agree to this.

I've seen dejected Math before, I can believe their play here.

Senpai is town as fuck for 7593, single-handedly course-correcting the game state.

Do you still feel the same knowing that its based on outdated meta that no longer applies?

I think the only reason for Senpai to do what they did is if Creature is buddies with them. A generally easy to TR Creature getting wagoned only benefits scum, and Notice went in hard on defending Creature. I don't think the potential towncred would be a worthy trade-off for stopping the wagon on Creature. I also TR Creature and LUV and agree that the two of them being the top wagons was horrible. Notice went out of their way to change the direction of the game away from a direction I loathed, going against a universal TR's reads in the process. I don't see any reason for scum to do any of the above except to defend their buddy, and I don't see Creature as scum here.

Whether or not the meta is accurate is irrelevant for my TR on Senpai.

[Leonshade]

excuse me if I don't trust the reads of someone that has been on both mislynches.

Also I find it hard to believe that a town Math is so dejected that she's goinf to play from the sidelines.

I'll agree to this.

I've seen dejected Math before, I can believe their play here.

Senpai is town as fuck for 7593, single-handedly course-correcting the game state.

Do you still feel the same knowing that its based on outdated meta that no longer applies?

I think the only reason for Senpai to do what they did is if Creature is buddies with them. A generally easy to TR Creature getting wagoned only benefits scum, and Notice went in hard on defending Creature. I don't think the potential towncred would be a worthy trade-off for stopping the wagon on Creature. I also TR Creature and LUV and agree that the two of them being the top wagons was horrible. Notice went out of their way to change the direction of the game away from a direction I loathed, going against a universal TR's reads in the process. I don't see any reason for scum to do any of the above except to defend their buddy, and I don't see Creature as scum here.

Whether or not the meta is accurate is irrelevant for my TR on Senpai.

Oh yes, if im correct here it pretty much means the scumteam is alisae + notice + creature.

For now we can work off the assumption that they wouldnt be that obvious, but you never know.

Will be ingerested in seeing what people have to say a out the meta stuff in tone/playstyle that i noted from notice

If that's the scumteam then I've been snowed hard. Ali and Creature are my two top TRs and I just explained Notice. I just can't see that team being the case here, I would especially not expect to be able to read neither Ali nor Creature here.

Don't have any scum meta with Notice and I don't feel confident discussing the tone and playstyle things you brought up. Though I think if your first assumption is masterful scum performance, especially from a player that isn't known for that AFAIK, it's more likely that your assumption is wrong and they're just town.

I've seen dejected Math before,

but was it

TOWN

dejected Math?

Never played with scum Math, but I wouldn't have said that there anyway, were I not referring to town Math.

[Leonshade]

I'm the kind of person that thinks someone usually active being lurky means scum but doesn't think that someone usually lurky being active means scum.

Pretty much, I don't see the uptick in activity from Dave as scummy.

just for the record you are scumreading Nancy?

No, some of you just assumed I was. I wouldn't be surprised if that slot was scum though. I pretty much just ran down the playerlist and left my immediate impression of each slot.

An assumption made because you were unclear.

But if the game you're basing your read on ended before this game began, what's to say he didn't just decide to try something new and he's making a huge leap here?

Your meta reliance doesn't make sense to me, but to each his own

.

Why does the bolded ping me so hard? It's like simultaneously discrediting Vecna's read while trying to be non-committal about it.

[Leonshade]

@nancy:

What made your TR on me change?

I haven't really ever been TRing you and posts like 7766 are why.

What do you find scummy about 7766?

Let's remember that Cloudie replaced into a slot that is probably town.

Disagreed.

VOTE: Brian

My prayers have been answered!

Careful, your colors are showing.

Shading.

VOTE: vecna

use your words.

Yup. Someone tell me why Kyouko was so town that we can't wagon this.

No town block can be formed at this point to be honest. Game is in such disarray.

I'm doing what I can to fix that. I have Aslan and Math as locktown. You,

Brian

, Creature,

CloudKicker

, Notice, Vecna, and Yuri are TRs who I am willing to work with to get Town into a better position. This is enough for the time being. I believe we can get a scumflip today, but we need to get our reads in order.

Anyone on the Sondam wagon, why is Sondam scum? I don't have a good read on the slot and I don't have a good metaread on MariaR. Treat me like I'm 5, please.

Anyone off the Sondam wagon, why is Sondam Town? Same as above.

There are flaws in your townblock. I've talked about my Sondam townread before, though I'm not as confident on it now as I was D1. Someone (Vecna?) made the good point that they're no longer interested in Math despite gerry seeming so convinced he'd caught a slip from the slot D1.

[Leonshade]

how do u feel about it?
looks like town Leon to me. do u think the push is trash? frustration over brian being passed over cause drixx seems genuine enough

D1 I thought you were RC, but now I know that isn't the case.

I feel like Leon is treating Brian like he was treating me in Spyro.
We were both scum together and the whole game he was distancing himself from me but he was also keeping other oppertunities open.
Like I feel like Leon told Brian in their scum PT after Brian hammered ABR "Hey, you're going to get some heat on you and I'm probably going to have to bus you."

What heat? If it wasn't for me, Brian would still be coasting by thanks to a residual Drixx TR. Hell, I'm pushing him and he's STILL coasting by thanks to a residual Drixx TR. So far today we've had LUV vote for him just now, and Vecna express suspicion on the TRs on Brian but not scumread the slot.

Why would Drixx saying that he wanted to go after pyramids but didn't or didn't win it affect your Skies read?

^

What's your read on Brian, Nero?

Yeah Drixx was obvTown so unless Brian scumclaims I don't want to vote there.

...............................................................................................

Why would Drixx saying that he wanted to go after pyramids but didn't or didn't win it affect your Skies read?

Satisfaction cuz that's the only thing that's holding me back from voting that slot because it really seemed like an obvtown move to make.
Also Brian confirmed Drixx didn't get it btw.

Math what do you think of Brian hammering ABR?

NAI to me. That slot is Town purely because of Drixx. Brian's play is wholly unremarkable.

No, that slot is scummy and people are ignoring it because of their dumb TR on one Drixx post.

[Leonshade]

My townbloc is Aslan and Math. Not much of a townbloc. 7766 is scum because Brian as just Brian is lynchbait, that's the only context in which that lynch goes through, and you're pushing it. "Why can't we just wagon the scumcloud?" comes from Town 1 mislynch away from LyLo ummmm.. never.

You should reconsider if the reason you SR someone is just because they disagree with your reads.

How is Brian lynchbait when 80% of the playerbase TRs the slot? These inexplicable TRs are part of the reason I scumread the slot, I feel like at least some people have to be faking it.

There's 17 players in the game, we're two/three mislynches away from LYLO.

Brian and CloudKicker are my top two SRs here, yet Brian is being TR'd for bad reasons and having his play ignored otherwise, and CloudKicker is all of a sudden town for reasons I clearly missed? All day the top wagons have been either my TRs (Creature, LUV, Sondam) or slots that could go either way (Caesar). Meanwhile I see zero reason to TR either Brian or CloudKicker, yet people are calling the former town for stupid reasons and the latter is inexplicably town now?

How are we ever going to know whether Brian's actually scum instead of just lynchbait if we're never going to wagon the slot?

[Leonshade]

Brian, Cloudkicker, both were on both mislynch wagons. I TR the rest of the players that were. You can go "scum want to avoid being on mislynches" but there's also scum that doesn't, I think at least one of these two is it.

[Leonshade]

yeah ok Alisae is actually town im putting that on my srs reads list

Math is town too. im gonna poe this shit i dont have any good scumreads. kyouko is one from forever ago

i scumread kyouko everygame its okay

Explain the Vecna vote.

[Leonshade]

How are we ever going to know whether Brian's actually scum instead of just lynchbait if we're never going to wagon the slot?

Yeah, no Town outside of a newbie has ever said this.

None of my reasons for SRing you have to do with your reads. And I don't believe your dumbtell about there being

17 players

in the game. Try again.

The fuck? I scumread the slot, you say it's "lynchbait" with zero explanation as to why, I want to pressure because I disagree, "no town outside a newbie ever said this"?

Regarding the bolded:

Lynch Vote 3.11

Caesar Wills It (3):

nancy, Creature, Brian Skies

CloudKicker (2):

Yuri, Maxous

Sondam (2):

Vecna, Nero Cain

Lil Uzi Vert (2):

Elbirn, Sondam

Brian Skies (2):

Leonshade, Lil Uzi Vert

Nero Cain (1):

MathBlade

Maxous (1):

NoticeMeSenpai

Vecna (1):

CloudKicker

Not Voting (3):

Caesar Wills It, davesaz, Alisae

With 17 players alive

, it takes 9 to lynch by majority.
Lynch deadline is in (expired on 2017-03-11 09:45:13), at which point we will default to no lynch.

17 - 2 = 15, even with a vig shot we're still not in LYLO range.

[Leonshade]

Living (17)

:

Spoiler:

Alisae
Nero Cain
Yuri
MathBlade
Leonshade
Elbirn
Creature
Brian Skies
Caesar Wills It
Lil Uzi Vert
Vecna
CloudKicker
davesaz
Maxous
Sondam
NoticeMeSenpai
nancy

Just in case my point was not clear. There's 17 players here.

[Leonshade]

WHAT FUCKING DUMBTELLING?

I KNOW WHAT A LYNCHBAIT IT THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M ASKING

[Leonshade]

@Leonshade it would be 17-3 one for lynch one for NK and one for vig would be 14 in worst case scenario.
Then that would be 8 to lynch and 5? scum remaining that would be one lynch removed from LyLO.

Like we need a scum today.

Your math is correct, we're two mislynches away from LYLO assuming five scum, three assuming four. Playing with five scum in mind to be safe, we're still two mislynches off of LYLO.

[Leonshade]

nancy, sometimes scummy players are just scummy, not "lynchbait". Sometimes people play up their lynchbaity-ness to avoid being scumread (see Ali in Spyro the Dragon). Simply labeling certain players lynchbait without a second thought is bad play. Brian has not been pressured once this game, if he was truly "lynchbait" scum should be all over him. Or maybe they're avoiding him because of the Drixx association, but I don't think we can truly know based on current information. Brian's play is scummy to my eyes, and I don't agree with the Drixx TR. That is why I want to wagon him. Maybe I'll change my mind when i see how he reacts to pressure, but so far I've seen zero reason to believe he's town.

[Leonshade]

No town block can be formed at this point to be honest. Game is in such disarray.

I'm doing what I can to fix that. I have Aslan and Math as locktown. You, Brian, Creature, CloudKicker, Notice, Vecna, and Yuri are TRs who I am willing to work with to get Town into a better position. This is enough for the time being. I believe we can get a scumflip today, but we need to get our reads in order.

Anyone on the Sondam wagon, why is Sondam scum? I don't have a good read on the slot and I don't have a good metaread on MariaR. Treat me like I'm 5, please.

Anyone off the Sondam wagon, why is Sondam Town? Same as above.

Why do you townread Yuri and Vecna when their wagons just instantly collapsed?

My main problem with the wagons given is the reasoning is because and I find the people who hop on a reasonless wagon suspicious.

Could you do Nero with me? His list just looks like the common wagons and hard townread people to try to create apathy?

@nancy

I'm liking Nero less and less, but there's so much noise in the slot that I'm not sure whether it's bad posting that I'm getting a read on or actual scumfuckery. His responses to being pressured are just awful. His ability to work with other people is just nowhere to be seen. I'll do meta on him to figure out the slot more.

I think the Yuri wagon collapsing was a result of reads genuinely changing, not of scumfuckery.

I'm not sure about Vecna. It may be that because Vecna was the largest wagon after ABR at the time that went through that people associated the shit feelings of mislynching ABR with Vecna, as in "fuck we were probably wrong on both wagons yesterday".


Leonshade, you've been around since 2010.

Don't try and tell me you don't know that players alive = players in game.

You are a lying, dumbtelling scumfuck.

Huh? That's exactly what I've been saying! 17 players alive = 17 players in the game! What part of this statement do you disagree with?

[Leonshade]

I feel like I'm being gaslighted, I've double-checked what I've said wrong and I can't find anything.

Game started with 21 players, after 4 deaths there are 17 players left in the game.

17 - 5 scum = 12 townies.

12 - 1 (lynch) - 1 (NK) - 1 (vig) = 9 townies left in the game

With 9 town and 5 scum, town can still afford another lynch and NK before LYLO.

If there are only 4 scum, town can afford a third lynch on top of that.

What of the above is incorrect "dumbtelling"?

[Leonshade]

I feel like Leon is treating Brian like he was treating me in Spyro.
We were both scum together and the whole game he was distancing himself from me but he was also keeping other oppertunities open.
Like I feel like Leon told Brian in their scum PT after Brian hammered ABR "Hey, you're going to get some heat on you and I'm probably going to have to bus you."

So it suddenly went from lock-hard townread on Leon to suddenly thinking he's bussing huh?

What happened to that meta you had on the slot? Also, very convenient that you refuse to answer my meta-related questions when I asked them, but now ur suddenly in "leon might be bad mode"

VOTE: Alisea

Scum-scum-scum

I want this lynched so we can lynch all the other slots that have been townreading it based on meta.

Im not buying it. Noone cares to explain any of it. Its false false townreads.

I think I'm the main perpetrator of TRing Ali based on meta here. Unless Ali was purposefully playing worse in Spyro (though after a while he actually was and it was hilarious) or leveled up after just one game, I don't think he's scum here. I don't understand all of his reads changes, but I see it more as town flailing around in a game with no obvscum than inherently scummy.

@Math well I just skimmed like 5 of his other games and results are inconclusive soooo nothing from meta unless I actually pore over it, which isn't really my style.

@Leonshade you passed the test.

VOTE: Caesar

@Venca pick another slot, Aslan isn't happening.

Reaction test, should've known.

Interesting that noone on my wagon went to ABR, except Caesar and brian skies

Everything seems to point to Brian and nobody wants to wagon him.

At any rate; Leon, Nancy, LUV - I want to come to a concensus with you guys, where we openly discuss on who were going to lynch today.

Looking at what's common between you and nancy, Caesar is the one I'm willing to vote for.

VOTE: Caesar

[Leonshade]

Sondam is a TR, though not a strong one anymore. Still would prefer not to lynch today.

Yuri is likewise a TR, though one that was formed D1 and hasn't changed much since. They haven't done much since, and it's a bit worrying that the most I remember them being active was when they were close to being lynched.

Sondam and Yuri are probably my weakest TRs at this point, but I'd prefer to lynch outside them today.

davesaz I'd be fine with, but he's not a lynchable for nancy.

Maxous I'm back and forth on, I misread him in Undertale but he doesn't feel like his Undertale self here. Nero has warmed up to gut town for me.

[Leonshade]

What's your read on Brian, Nero?

I'm kindaish POE town reading him. I understand why you are scumreading him. I think if he's scum he'd have to be scum with Nancy. Remember his "reads" list and he called Nancy manipulative? That's not really an accusation you make if you are town reading a slot so he's scum and calls his buddy maniplutive b/c a scum her

WOULD BE

manipulative.

Nancy accusing you of dumbtelling was really dumb and I don't really buy the reaction test explanation. Why do you?

Because I had her as lock-town already. It was weird and I'd be skeptical if it came from most players, but the slot as a whole has been so town she would have to scumclaim for me to change my read. I see her reaction test on me the same way I see her faking her reads, weird but not scummy.

I don't know why Brian would call his buddy manipulative, though I agree that calling a TR manipulative in your reads list is really weird.

Without a scum flip, I'm not confident in any TR that is a result of PoE.

[Leonshade]

Don't know about Gerry, but town!Maria has a history of scumreading town!Creature. You'd think she would learn, but it hasn't happened so far.

[Leonshade]

Half my townreads I'd be pinged by if I didn't have meta with them (Ali, Creature, Sondam), this is a weird game. All my townreads are/have been dominating the action, what are scum doing?

[Leonshade]

There's no way that a town vig shot PV. Scum wasting a kill on themselves is not impossible, but generally seems like a poor idea. If scum got pyramids and vig, then I could see them using a shot on their own pyramid (and their other shot happened to get doc), but outside of that PV is probably town.

His style and tunnel on Math is way different from anything I've seen of PV before, but he's dead now so who cares about his alignment. I'll still play like there's five scum but take everything PV says with a grain of salt just in case.

[Leonshade]

I don't want to catch up right now.

I'll just point to this page next time someone says Creature is scum.

I like Creature's PoE scumpool, only one I would immediately take off is Senpai. Don't want to lynch in Yuri/Sondam today, but if I'm going to start doubting my TRs they would be the first two to go.

[Leonshade]

Gin/notice/alisae fits so damn well its allmost too good to be true.

And a random extra space for yuri

Anyways i do tend to see connections that dont really exist as town. Gotta be carefull with drawing too many hard conclusions and confbiasing myself.

How come you dont see what im seeing leon? We were vibing rather well earlier

Looking forward to your catchup

Quick summary of why you suspect Gin/Notice/Ali?

Gin I don't know about, Elbirn was null for me. Ali I'm still townreading for the same reasons, and I don't see Notice's hard defense of Creature coming from scum. Creature might still be a wagon if JaeReed hadn't interfered, but now I don't see Creature ever getting wagoned again. It could have been a play for towncred or a buddying attempt, but derailing a mislynch for potential towncred seems like a net negative, and Creature doesn't strike me as the type that is easily buddied (and JaeReed has experience with Creature, too). I'm inclined to believe that the lack of presence Creature talks about is just due to lack of engagement, due to the size of the game.

I'll try to catch up later today.