Mini 1875: Pine's Death Trap Post Game - Town win!

[Akarin]

/confirm

[Akarin]

I'm sorry the dog is bullying you but please don't cry!

[Akarin]

Sorry, I got distracted by real life. Going to sleep now but I didn't forget about this game! I'll catch up and post tomorrow afternoon.

[Akarin]

VOTE: Vifam

I was part way through catching up when that stupid hammer came down. Just after reading about how Vifam didn't want to lynch either RC or Gerry.

My other scumread is Rautherdir.

[Akarin]

There are 3 players I will NOT be voting today:

RadiantCowbells
Vifam
Transcend

I refuse to believe they are obv-scum.

Their anti-town/scummy actions on D1 made me want to replace out.
People must remember this a team game. I do not respect selfish players.
I could spend all of D2 attacking their play but it's too easy work (however, I will express my position on all three players before moving on).
My only interactions with them today will be to find scum in the remaining pool (Grendel, Akarin, Rautherdir, JarJarDrinks, Lil Uzi Vert, Cooperative Sheep, mattblackguy).

So you're forming a town bloc based on people you think are anti-town?

[Akarin]

It's been a couple days and I forgot some stuff, but I think it was mostly unvoting for me without voting for someone else even though the only reason to initially vote for me was that I hadn't posted, and calling it SvT or TvS but they weren't sure which and saying they wanted more people to talk about it when it looked TvT.

[Akarin]

The RC vs Gerry thing. Wasn't he?

[Akarin]

At least Rauth has more meat to chew on now...

Yep. I wish more people were talking because I think gerryoat/RC is SvT or TvS. Right now I lean towards RC being town and gerryoat being scum, but I'll read over the game again just to be sure before voting.

UNVOTE: Akarin, she'll get prodded soon anyways...

This post

[Akarin]

It doesn't read like it was SvT. And I thought a lot of people were voting Gerry based on a townread on RC. I think scum were pushing that. And he didn't vote here, while pushing the narrative that there was scum involved.

[Akarin]

Seeing as Gerry got lynched most people seemed to think it was a SvT situation there

So at what point did you decide Gerry was scum after all?

[Akarin]

oh hey akarin is scum

Sorry, if I go back to not posting will you townread me?

[Akarin]

I just did it cuz Transcend dared me to

And yet Gerry got lynched because most people thought he was scum?

[Akarin]

I come in and vote Vifam.

Vifam argues with me for a bunch of posts about the one other read I have without talking about herself.

Vifam votes me over the other read.

[Akarin]

I was scumreading you before you hammered. The hammer just seals it.

[Akarin]

That's what I was talking about earlier. And I got prodded on Day 1 (after I'd posted saying I'd catch up and post, so that didn't prevent a prod) then I was reading the thread when you hammered it. I was already prodded and reading the thread at that point, why are you saying I just rolled in here now?

[Akarin]

I'm annoyed because I was frantically trying to catch up before you hammered and I was paying attention and trying to get reads. But I don't remember all of that now because I never had a chance to post it.

And if I were scum, why would I come in here now and just jump on some random wagon like you're saying I'm doing? Wouldn't I have had like 3 days to plan out some good way to enter the game and not immediately get suspected?

Your argument doesn't make any sense.

[Akarin]

So you're forming a town bloc based on people you think are anti-town?

From my experiences on MS, anti-town does not equal scum.

Are you lazy town or lazy scum?

My point isn't that anti-town = scum, it's that it seems weird to me that you're assuming anti-town = town.

Those are completely different things.

[Akarin]

And why are you calling me lazy over that?

I didn't mean to not post Day 1. I thought I had plenty of time.

[Akarin]

I don't see how I've been wishy washy about Gerry, never said I was interested in lynching him or thought he was scum

[Akarin]

Everyone else already left your wagon.

[Akarin]

Why are you making it out to be that the argument is that your hammer was anti-town. I mean it was, but I never said that's why I'm voting for you.

It was a scummy hammer, not just an anti-town hammer.

And you started by ignoring that and attacking my other read to discredit me, then moved on to saying I was just sheeping what everyone else is doing without having reasons for it.

[Akarin]

You said you had a scumread on me before the hammer, what about my play before then was scummy to you?

It was the way you sheeped onto the Grendel wagon for no reason, then commented that you didn't notice he was so close to a lynch after Gerry and RC commented on it without unvoting. But at that point in the day it was less of a read that Rautherdir for me.

[Akarin]

What happened to Akarin

It was Sunday and I was fighting a head cold. Weekday afternoons are my active time.

[Akarin]

I'm annoyed because I was frantically trying to catch up before you hammered and I was paying attention and trying to get reads. But I don't remember all of that now because I never had a chance to post it.

And if I were scum, why would I come in here now and just jump on some random wagon like you're saying I'm doing? Wouldn't I have had like 3 days to plan out some good way to enter the game and not immediately get suspected?

Your argument doesn't make any sense.

The second point is just straight bad, b/c to acknowledge that you would do "x", or "y" as scum rather then "z" means that you are self aware enough to do just that to subvert what you'd do as scum.

The only instance I'd buy that is if what a player did really _would_ hurt their chances to win as scum, or if somebody else came to that conclusion.

Posting earlier then you'd perceive scum!you doing is not that.

That's not at all what I said. I wasn't saying I posted earlier than I would have as scum, I'm saying that if my reasoning is so poorly thought out that it's going to immediately get a wagon on me, why wouldn't I have run that by my scumbuddies during the night instead of coming in with what Vifam is claiming is both poor, lazy reasoning and a plot to get her lynched.

"You'd have known that as town you would come in here and vote for Vifam in such a way that people would want to vote for you, so you did that as scum," isn't very good reasoning. Especially considering the only person I've played with before in this game is Alisae and they're dead.

[Akarin]

I don't really see the problem here. He decided his vote on you wasn't doing any good and wanted to be sure of his first impressions of both players. Seems reasonable considering the length and intensity of the back and forth between the two.

The problem is that the vote wasn't doing any good, but they just unvoted rather than voting anywhere. It wasn't doing

more

good being on no one, and I had done literally nothing at all to warrant any change. Committing to one stance or another would have been good, but fanning the flames with "this doesn't seem like town vs. town" but not committing to anything is pretty scummy.

Besides which, it really does look pretty town on town, and Vifam is both arguing that well it must have looked scum on town to a lot of people because Gerry got lynched, but at the same time, Vifam didn't suspect or want to lynch Gerry.

[Akarin]

I come in and vote Vifam.

Vifam argues with me for a bunch of posts about the one other read I have without talking about herself.

Vifam votes me over the other read.

This reeks of bull. What else was Vifam supposed to have said in regards to why he hammered Gerry? Why can't he focus and talk to you about two things at once?

My problem is that it's like Vifam knows OMGUS looks scummy, but they want a wagon on me and to discredit me, so they attack the other read for a bunch of posts before placing the OMGUS vote.

[Akarin]

Fuck off I just read that slot and Akarin is town. I will vote you again if you keep pushing it.

What caused you to go from "almost purely null" to "I'll vote you for pushing town"?

[Akarin]

It doesn't really make sense because how is Rauth thinking Gerry vs RC is SvT at that point in the game scummy? A few other players did and she doesn't get on anyone else for it.

It's not scummy to think that there may be scum in our 1v1. What is scummy is sitting there being yeah there's definitely a scum in there but I don't really have any coherent thoughts about who it is but hey look at that juicy 1v1 there's bound to be some scum in there let's lynch them.

AFAIR no one else was that vague. A ton of people said 'Hey I think that's TvS and that Gerry is scum here', a few people said it's TvT, but Rautherdir was the only one who was totally blase and just like YEAH THERE'S SCUM IN THAT JUICY 1v1 RIPE FOR THE MISLYNCH PICKINGS.

Yeah okay, that makes more sense than what she was saying tho

Except this is exactly what I was trying to say.

[Akarin]

Idk I thought the way Rauth reacted to his wagon on D1 was town, he is ignoring the wagon on Matt though which I dont really like

You've said this a few times, but what specifically about the D1 reaction gives you such a town read?

[Akarin]

It doesn't really make sense that his first reaction to Gerrys flip is that RC was reaction testing. Like shouldn't he have considered that RC was scum that got caught fakeclaiming? Especially considering that he soon starting pushing RC-scum soon after.

RC scum still makes more sense. But Town RC/Town Matt makes no sense.

What does this even mean? You're scumreading RC, but if RC is town, Matt is definitely scum, even though you're townreading Matt? And you have a problem with Transcend suspecting scum Matt but town RC, but your argument here is basically an argument for scum Matt, town RC?

Why should Town RC imply scum Matt?

[Akarin]

Question JJD: if you can conceive of either of our slots being town and the either scum, then why can't you conceive of both of our slots being town?

Like if either one of our interactions could have been TvS there's no reason why they couldn't have both been and the whole situation being TvT.

I mean I don't think it's impossible for you both to be town. I just think it's ridiculous that transcend can rule BOTH of you out as scum.

That's not the argument you made though.

So why is that a ridiculous read from Transcend?

[Akarin]

And Grendel, last game I ended up basically being confirmed town day 2. I was also making a complex move to try and catch scum off guard which required me to keep active.

So you were trying an advanced strategy to catch scum off guard by not helping town too much and looking scummy?

[Akarin]

Cause like look @ this first post of the day from Matt:

VOTE: Vifam

RC, why didn't you reveal it was just a reaction test, and you weren't actually the cop yesterday?

It doesn't really make sense that his first reaction to Gerrys flip is that RC was reaction testing. Like shouldn't he have considered that RC was scum that got caught fakeclaiming? Especially considering that he soon starting pushing RC-scum soon after.

RC scum still makes more sense. But Town RC/Town Matt makes no sense.

This is a really good point, that I agree with - I'll move Matt into an acceptable lynch slot now.

Do you think the argument is good overall (i.e. about Transcend's reads), or just the point about Matt not considering that RC was scum fakeclaiming?

[Akarin]

VOTE: Transcend

So what exactly changed your mind in those couple posts?

And why Transcend in particular?

[Akarin]

The statement from Matt is scummy regardless. I've already said that the statement could come from scum matt even if RC is scum as well. But it makes way more sense for scum matt to make it about town RC.

And as I said later, It's not impossible for for them both to be town. My statement was directed @ trans and how terrible it was for him to be townreading the both of them.

Yeah, I can see why Matt's post is scummy, but that's not what I'm asking. You said later they could both be town. But exactly as you just said, you think it was terrible for Transcend to be townreading both of them. Which means you think that if RC is town, Matt should be more likely than average to be scum.

But nothing you've said explains that. Why do you think that?

[Akarin]

So if being more active got you universally townread, why didn't you want to do that here?

[Akarin]

Not that I should be one to talk about inactivity...

[Akarin]

Yes, that's an argument for scum Matt.

If RC flips scum, does that make Matt's response is townier?

[Akarin]

I feel like Keyser is daring Transcend to self-hammer here and I don't like it.

[Akarin]

Yes, that's an argument for scum Matt.

If RC flips scum, does that make Matt's response is townier?

Yes, a little bit.

Why?

You keep hedging and repeating yourself without really explaining your logic.

[Akarin]

Rauths reads list is pretty terrible. Everyone except trans and RC are some variation of null. Reeks of scum trying to keep his options open.

This I agree with though.

So if Jar Jar is scum, I don't think it's with Rautherdir. But I'm thinking one of them is.

[Akarin]

So for people voting for Transcend, how many of you are policy voting, and how many of you think he's scum?

[Akarin]

2 days.

I'm not voting for Transcend, I really don't like this wagon.
I could go for Vifam, Jar Jar, or Rautherdir.

[Akarin]

"Day 2 ends in 9 days..."
not "Day ends in 2 days."

I am the best at reading.

[Akarin]

It

feels

like it's been a lot longer of a day than it has been.

[Akarin]

Why Rauth?

He called you town/town PR as a fact. Zero paranoia or doubt.

You never responded to RC's question, but where is this coming from?

RC is town PR.

Is that a fact or your belief?

"I think gerryoat/RC is SvT or TvS"

"I think I said I was sure it was TvS/SvT."

"I failed to take into account that Gerry could be a power-role."

Again, why did you NOT like gerry's reaction to RC's roleclaim on D1?

[Akarin]

RC, why did you decide to move your vote to Rautherdir when you did, rather than when you unvoted Transcend?

[Akarin]

UNVOTE:

By way of summary what was the nature of your scum-read of Transcend?

Already kinda answered this

It's a little of both. It's policy cause he's stubbornly refusing to play. But I also think it's scummy because I know he's capable of playing a solid game. If he'd start giving us real content, I'd probably move my vote.

So considering his play was anti-town and I know he's capable of much better, I lean scum on him.

So basically my vote was mainly to attempt to motivate him to start posting real content and if he didn't, I would have been happy to lynch him.

Looks like the replacement is already redeeming the slot w/ a vote on RC.


VOTE: RC

You're not actually answering the question. You weren't policy voting him, but you know he's capable of more, so you have a scum read on him and are voting for him, but didn't really want to lynch him and were just voting him to motivate him and would have moved your vote if he posted more and the replacement is town because they're trying?

That sounds exactly like a policy vote that you don't want to admit is a policy vote.

[Akarin]

What question?

Is this a joke because I can only omgus people?

I know that isn't a serious question but you didn't address what RC was getting at, which is why are you asking that/what do you mean?

[Akarin]

Akarin

- slight scumlean. I feel like a lot of her questions directed @ me are designed to get me to scumread Matt and/or townread RC. Agree w/ her vif and rauth reads though.

I wasn't trying to get you to scumread Matt. I was pointing out that your reasoning doesn't make sense. You basically logic yourself into having a scumread on Matt, but then don't actually have one, and now are scumreading me for "trying to get you to have a scumread on Matt."

I'm pointing out that by your logic, you already

should

have a scumread on Matt, but you don't, you think Matt is town and RC is scum. And regardless of Matt, who honestly I'm not sure how I feel about,

that

is scummy.

It's not real logic, it's convenient reads and then logic made up to support them.

[Akarin]

That said, Nancy's big post on RC is persuasive and she's almost definitely town, so I should probably go back and ISO RC. I'll try to get to that tomorrow I guess, although weekends can be weird for me.

[Akarin]

In the meantime
VOTE: JarJarDrinks

I'm still happy with a Vifam or Rautherdir lynch, but I think I'm feeling this more right now.

[Akarin]

This is basically a prod dodge, will post more on Monday, don't have much time today. Welcome to the game Fro99er.

Keyser, why is WIFOM on Vifam stronger than any actual reads you have that aren't PR claims or cop clears? Weren't you like solving the entire game based on how perfect your reads were earlier?

[Akarin]

I have no problem with lynching Jar Jar before I get caught up, but I think others should be given the time they want. Rautherdir, why are you wanting to lynch him in the next few hours?

[Akarin]

So mean.

Anyway, I'm not going to catch up until tomorrow.

Also, who died and made you RC?

[Akarin]

I'm catching up, now. Anyone want to go for the hattrick and just hammer somebody in the next half hour?

[Akarin]

food for thought

RC and I have played together 3 times before. We were both town each of the 3 times (Refraction, AngryPigeon's with mollie and pie that was a shitfest...JarJar was in that game too, and Varsoon's with FA that was also a shitfest). All three times he scumread me despite me being town.

We are both town here. Consider the fact that RC doesn't know how to read me. At all.

That's not an attack on RC

. That's just a fact that he hasn't been able to read me correctly, period. The same thing is happening here. Just take into consideration he hasn't been able to figure me out.

This seems like it could be deliberately trying to get under RC's skin.

RC seems to be a very ego-driven player, and here Frogger is saying "this isn't an attack

but

RC can't read me at all, and is always wrong."

Later he admits that RC read him correctly after Day 2 in one of those games.

And it seems to me like when RC is worked up, they post a bunch and wind up doing less to steer town, but when they are calm they make a lot of good, rational points. RC is essentially confirmed town and is one of the main people pushing Frogger.

[Akarin]

What if it's a Jar Jar, Matt, Frogger scumteam?

[Akarin]

Could we get a vote count please?

[Akarin]

Only Rauth can call someone 100% town.
You t/clearing non-confirmed players and narrowing down the lynch pool only narrows our focus (anti-town).
Anyone is up for the lynch (including me) except for RC and Rauth.
Hard defending a player without an investigation just causes a distraction.

[Akarin]

Akarin, who did you want to half-hour hammer?

That was a thing called sarcasm. Every time I try to read this game when I have a bunch of pages to catch up on, someone hammers and ends the day.