Mini 1875: Pine's Death Trap Post Game - Town win!


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Post Post #1000 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:31 am

Post by Akarin »

In post 894, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
In post 847, Akarin wrote:I come in and vote Vifam.

Vifam argues with me for a bunch of posts about the one other read I have without talking about herself.

Vifam votes me over the other read.
This reeks of bull. What else was Vifam supposed to have said in regards to why he hammered Gerry? Why can't he focus and talk to you about two things at once?
My problem is that it's like Vifam knows OMGUS looks scummy, but they want a wagon on me and to discredit me, so they attack the other read for a bunch of posts before placing the OMGUS vote.
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Post Post #1001 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:32 am

Post by Akarin »

In post 899, RadiantCowbells wrote:Fuck off I just read that slot and Akarin is town. I will vote you again if you keep pushing it.
What caused you to go from "almost purely null" to "I'll vote you for pushing town"?
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Post Post #1002 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:35 am

Post by Akarin »

In post 919, Vifam wrote:
In post 917, RadiantCowbells wrote:
In post 913, Vifam wrote:It doesn't really make sense because how is Rauth thinking Gerry vs RC is SvT at that point in the game scummy? A few other players did and she doesn't get on anyone else for it.
It's not scummy to think that there may be scum in our 1v1. What is scummy is sitting there being yeah there's definitely a scum in there but I don't really have any coherent thoughts about who it is but hey look at that juicy 1v1 there's bound to be some scum in there let's lynch them.

AFAIR no one else was that vague. A ton of people said 'Hey I think that's TvS and that Gerry is scum here', a few people said it's TvT, but Rautherdir was the only one who was totally blase and just like YEAH THERE'S SCUM IN THAT JUICY 1v1 RIPE FOR THE MISLYNCH PICKINGS.
Yeah okay, that makes more sense than what she was saying tho
Except this is exactly what I was trying to say.
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Post Post #1003 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:41 am

Post by Vifam »

UNVOTE:

/kanyeshrug
ok
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Post Post #1004 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:41 am

Post by Vifam »

I think you're town now honestly idk what to do in this game
ok
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Post Post #1005 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:42 am

Post by Vifam »

VOTE: Transcend
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Post Post #1006 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:42 am

Post by Akarin »

In post 932, Vifam wrote:Idk I thought the way Rauth reacted to his wagon on D1 was town, he is ignoring the wagon on Matt though which I dont really like
You've said this a few times, but what specifically about the D1 reaction gives you such a town read?
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Post Post #1007 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:52 am

Post by Akarin »

In post 963, JarJarDrinks wrote:It doesn't really make sense that his first reaction to Gerrys flip is that RC was reaction testing. Like shouldn't he have considered that RC was scum that got caught fakeclaiming? Especially considering that he soon starting pushing RC-scum soon after.

RC scum still makes more sense. But Town RC/Town Matt makes no sense.
What does this even mean? You're scumreading RC, but if RC is town, Matt is definitely scum, even though you're townreading Matt? And you have a problem with Transcend suspecting scum Matt but town RC, but your argument here is basically an argument for scum Matt, town RC?

Why should Town RC imply scum Matt?
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Post Post #1008 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:54 am

Post by Akarin »

In post 966, JarJarDrinks wrote:
In post 965, RadiantCowbells wrote:Question JJD: if you can conceive of either of our slots being town and the either scum, then why can't you conceive of both of our slots being town?

Like if either one of our interactions could have been TvS there's no reason why they couldn't have both been and the whole situation being TvT.
I mean I don't think it's impossible for you both to be town. I just think it's ridiculous that transcend can rule BOTH of you out as scum.
That's not the argument you made though.

So why is that a ridiculous read from Transcend?
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Post Post #1009 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:56 am

Post by Akarin »

In post 967, Rautherdir wrote:And Grendel, last game I ended up basically being confirmed town day 2. I was also making a complex move to try and catch scum off guard which required me to keep active.
So you were trying an advanced strategy to catch scum off guard by not helping town too much and looking scummy?
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Post Post #1010 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:01 am

Post by Akarin »

In post 985, Cooperative Sheep wrote:
In post 963, JarJarDrinks wrote:Cause like look @ this first post of the day from Matt:
In post 683, mattblackguy wrote:VOTE: Vifam

RC, why didn't you reveal it was just a reaction test, and you weren't actually the cop yesterday?
It doesn't really make sense that his first reaction to Gerrys flip is that RC was reaction testing. Like shouldn't he have considered that RC was scum that got caught fakeclaiming? Especially considering that he soon starting pushing RC-scum soon after.

RC scum still makes more sense. But Town RC/Town Matt makes no sense.
This is a really good point, that I agree with - I'll move Matt into an acceptable lynch slot now.
Do you think the argument is good overall (i.e. about Transcend's reads), or just the point about Matt not considering that RC was scum fakeclaiming?
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Post Post #1011 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:03 am

Post by JarJarDrinks »

In post 1007, Akarin wrote:
In post 963, JarJarDrinks wrote:It doesn't really make sense that his first reaction to Gerrys flip is that RC was reaction testing. Like shouldn't he have considered that RC was scum that got caught fakeclaiming? Especially considering that he soon starting pushing RC-scum soon after.

RC scum still makes more sense. But Town RC/Town Matt makes no sense.
What does this even mean? You're scumreading RC, but if RC is town, Matt is definitely scum, even though you're townreading Matt? And you have a problem with Transcend suspecting scum Matt but town RC, but your argument here is basically an argument for scum Matt, town RC?

Why should Town RC imply scum Matt?
The statement from Matt is scummy regardless. I've already said that the statement could come from scum matt even if RC is scum as well. But it makes way more sense for scum matt to make it about town RC.

And as I said later, It's not impossible for for them both to be town. My statement was directed @ trans and how terrible it was for him to be townreading the both of them.
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Post Post #1012 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:09 am

Post by Akarin »

In post 1005, Vifam wrote:VOTE: Transcend
So what exactly changed your mind in those couple posts?

And why Transcend in particular?
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Post Post #1013 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:13 am

Post by Akarin »

In post 1011, JarJarDrinks wrote: The statement from Matt is scummy regardless. I've already said that the statement could come from scum matt even if RC is scum as well. But it makes way more sense for scum matt to make it about town RC.

And as I said later, It's not impossible for for them both to be town. My statement was directed @ trans and how terrible it was for him to be townreading the both of them.
Yeah, I can see why Matt's post is scummy, but that's not what I'm asking. You said later they could both be town. But exactly as you just said, you think it was terrible for Transcend to be townreading both of them. Which means you think that if RC is town, Matt should be more likely than average to be scum.

But nothing you've said explains that. Why do you think that?
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Post Post #1014 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:22 am

Post by Pine »

Four people are coming up on prods in the next eight hour. Let's not slack our activity, folks!
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

Act 3, Scene 1 of
Julius Caesar
, by W. Shakespeare
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Post Post #1015 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:44 am

Post by Rautherdir »

In post 1009, Akarin wrote:
In post 967, Rautherdir wrote:And Grendel, last game I ended up basically being confirmed town day 2. I was also making a complex move to try and catch scum off guard which required me to keep active.
So you were trying an advanced strategy to catch scum off guard by not helping town too much and looking scummy?
I was talking about my previous game.
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Post Post #1016 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:47 am

Post by Akarin »

So if being more active got you universally townread, why didn't you want to do that here?
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Post Post #1017 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:47 am

Post by Akarin »

Not that I should be one to talk about inactivity...
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Post Post #1018 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:57 am

Post by Rautherdir »

In post 1016, Akarin wrote:So if being more active got you universally townread, why didn't you want to do that here?
That was not what got me townread. I soft-claimed a PR day 1 that game due to pressure, then claimed 1shot BP first thing day 2 after we mislynched our Jailkeeper. Since it was my first game, everyone else considered me essentially confirmed town.
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Post Post #1019 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:03 am

Post by JarJarDrinks »

In post 1013, Akarin wrote:Which means you think that if RC is town, Matt should be more likely than average to be scum.

But nothing you've said explains that. Why do you think that?
I feel like I have. The gist is:

Town matt should see Gerry flipping cop and think to himself "Hmm RC is caught in a fakeclaim. Might be scum"

Scum matt on the otherhand knows that RC is town (assumming they're not both scum) so he immediately jumps to the conclusion "Hmm RC is caught in a fakeclaim. He must have been reaction testing"

This is made worse by the fact that matt pushed RC scum soon after.
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Post Post #1020 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:27 am

Post by Akarin »

Yes, that's an argument for scum Matt.

If RC flips scum, does that make Matt's response is townier?
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Post Post #1021 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:09 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 1014, Pine wrote:
Four people are coming up on prods in the next eight hour. Let's not slack our activity, folks!
I got overloaded with illustration/graphic design projects for school this week.

I'm gonna be
V/la until the 9th of February.

V/LA noted
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Post Post #1022 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:44 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 982, Cooperative Sheep wrote:
In post 883, Grendel wrote:I think now that I pointed it out it should be clear that I was suspecting Gerry early with my posts, You disagree?
Yeah, I do. You offered some general stabs at him in a soft/jokey manner. You did the same to many other people - if you suspected him at best I would be able to create a list of about five or six names you suspected equally. The vote did feel out of nowhere and without support.
I suspected Gerry, and Mattblk that was all.

I questioned Transcend to know how seriously to take his early town reads. Because he was dropping a lot of town reads. If he is a player that takes those reads seriously then I'd have that down in my notes for future ref.

I engaged Ruath, and Alisae due to both of them having presence in other recent games I was in. I also responded to Keyser with a snarky comment b/c I didn't appreciate his assertion that I wasn't raising legit points.
In post 883, Grendel wrote:
In post 773, Grendel wrote:I’m not sure where a stand on you, currently. I can’t help but feel that you have been manipulative.
Why?
I have literally not acheived any of my stated lynch goals yet in this game - what am I manipulating? Unless I manipulated you into voting Gerry somehow...?
I feel like you're trying to do more to prove me dumb rather then prove me scum. If that makes sense.
No, I'm not with you on that - I just asked why you think I'm manipulative. Do you feel I'm trying to manipulate you/make you look dumb by asking why you think I'm manipulative? I think when you make the accusation you ought to be able to talk about it to some degree - or at least tell me it's just a gut vibe or something.

Still owe 38+
[/quote]

Manipulative wasn't the correct word. I was trying to nail down what was bugging me, and I think it is that you are more interested in proving me wrong then proving I'm scum. The later is a reassessment of the first.

I'd sum it up as a gut feeling. I could be wrong, as is the risk of listening to the heart. Eventually when I have time I'll look for examples in our past exchanges. Maybe I can better explain it then.

What is 38+?
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Post Post #1023 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:54 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 967, Rautherdir wrote:
And Grendel, last game I ended up basically being confirmed town day 2. I was also making a complex move to try and catch scum off guard which required me to keep active.
Idk, you don't have to be expressly active to be open with your reads, and thought processes.

reads like these for example:
In post 990, Rautherdir wrote:Reads!

Transcend is scum.

Vifam is null/scum.

LUV is null/slight scum.

Akarin is null.

Keyser is null.

Matt is null.

I(Rautherdir) am not reading myself.

JJD is null.

Grendel is null/slight town.

CoopSheep is null/town.

RC is town PR.


Night Kill Analysis
I don't know about everyone else, but I personally thought Alisae was scum when Night 1 started. The only conclusion I can draw is that scum were trying to find and kill other town PRs.

Matt's wagon. I never really understood how it happened, but after a lookover I came to the conclusion that its possible that he is scum, but I don't see it as likely.
You were releasing reads on every slot on the roster in the last game throughout D1.

I'm pretty sure that this is the first time you've done it this game. As short as yesterday was... you didn't seem that into sorting the rest of the roster.
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Post Post #1024 (ISO) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:15 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 998, Akarin wrote:
In post 885, Grendel wrote:
In post 856, Akarin wrote:I'm annoyed because I was frantically trying to catch up before you hammered and I was paying attention and trying to get reads. But I don't remember all of that now because I never had a chance to post it.

And if I were scum, why would I come in here now and just jump on some random wagon like you're saying I'm doing? Wouldn't I have had like 3 days to plan out some good way to enter the game and not immediately get suspected?

Your argument doesn't make any sense.
The second point is just straight bad, b/c to acknowledge that you would do "x", or "y" as scum rather then "z" means that you are self aware enough to do just that to subvert what you'd do as scum.

The only instance I'd buy that is if what a player did really _would_ hurt their chances to win as scum, or if somebody else came to that conclusion.

Posting earlier then you'd perceive scum!you doing is not that.
That's not at all what I said. I wasn't saying I posted earlier than I would have as scum, I'm saying that if my reasoning is so poorly thought out that it's going to immediately get a wagon on me, why wouldn't I have run that by my scumbuddies during the night instead of coming in with what Vifam is claiming is both poor, lazy reasoning and a plot to get her lynched.

"You'd have known that as town you would come in here and vote for Vifam in such a way that people would want to vote for you, so you did that as scum," isn't very good reasoning. Especially considering the only person I've played with before in this game is Alisae and they're dead.
Well, do you plan out things that well in advance as scum? Why not plan things out in advance as town too?

You're basically throwing shade on your own argument here. Saying that what you said/pushed is too ill-informed, not planed, for scum to do it seems to fall exactly into what I was originally saying. In that you seem perfectly aware that it isn't a great play for scum, therefore you could do it with that intention. So I don't really see pushing Viafam when scum wouldn't push them
because planning
as a convincing argument.
"You'd have known that as town you would come in here and vote for Vifam in such a way that people would want to vote for you, so you did that as scum," isn't very good reasoning.
Um, pretty sure this wasn't what I was saying. I'm refer more to the idea that you wouldn't enter that day x or y way as scum, rends the assertion null. It doesn't mean that you were doing something that you knew would blow up, you might not have expected the reaction you got at all.
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