Mini 1875: Pine's Death Trap Post Game - Town win!

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm sorry but you have merely dabbled in my scumplay. I am not in the least bit afraid of JarJar and in fact think him sitting around all day calling him scum would make it

harder

to lynch me.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Transcend is still probably scum as well but I'm much less sure and I feel like if we keep pressure up on him and force him to engage me we'll eventually know for sure.

Wouldn't it be easier to do that if you pressured him via a vote and/or tried to engage him with direct questioning?
You aren't doing either, so I'm not sure I follow.

[RadiantCowbells]

Idk. Knowing that I'm not going to die to nightkills tonight makes me feel like I'm in no rush to really do anything and I feel like Transcend is burnt out of mafia atm regardless of alignment so I am fine giving them space.

[RadiantCowbells]

FTR the day 1 deathtunnel was because I was trying to act like investigative RC who got outed and expected to die and needed to lynch his target at all costs.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Idk. Knowing that I'm not going to die to nightkills tonight makes me feel like I'm in no rush to really do anything and I feel like Transcend is burnt out of mafia atm regardless of alignment so I am fine giving them space.

Not really a fan of that as a strategy.

[RadiantCowbells]

If I didn't have something that I had conviction in then I wouldn't be doing it but right now I feel like MattBlackGuy is the place to be.

[Vifam]

How do you feel about Akarin @ RC

[RadiantCowbells]

They are almost entirely null to me.

[Grendel]

I was originally interested in Gerry before RC vs Gerry occurred. I generally like to have open reasoning out for critiques before voting. Saying that i voted my counter wagon, _just_ because it was my counter wagon is unfair. Also people had reservations about Gerry, and i probably could have done as well pushing Ruath instead.

You didn't make those stances clear at the time, and the vote did look survivalistic to me. Clearly you'd disagree, but from someone splitting hairs about "how townie did Sheep really state Keyser" as a basis to suspect me - I'm curious why you wanted me to presume things you didn't even remotely imply. Double standard?

ehh, I decided to start off subtle this game with my interactions, in hopes of catching my suspects off guard. I had no idea that the next time I get the opportunity to talk it'd be like fifteen pages later with Gerry getting heavily scrutinized.

I think now that I pointed it out it should be clear that I was suspecting Gerry early with my posts, You disagree?

Prefacing it with “I Don’t get the strong town reads”, along with the usage of both “Kinda tend”, made me think the “town read” was weak enough to assume that he was null. You hamming it up to be a strong town read looks like an exaggeration. Did you go on to reference Seyser as more then kinda sorta town read before I made the above posts?

Your previous issue with me was that I didn't sheep a town read but sheeped someone I didn't town read.
Now that you're aware I at least stated Keyser as my second strongest town read - your issue is that I didn't sheep a potentially stronger town read. You also made up that I called it a strong town read, i just said I town read him - which my words support.
Goal posts, they be a movin'.

I guess there isn't much else to say here other then I really think you were making it out to be more of a read then it was.

But in fairness I can't really attack you for it, as he was a town read for you in some facet.

Well you were in my scum reads weren’t you?

Why do you think scum would hop onto the wagon opportunistically *before* it hit a tipping point? To be opportunistic doesn't the hop have to be after the tipping point?

I'm saying that Your vote came at a pivotal moment where Gerry was under pressure, and it looked like you were directing pressure onto me. Granted this point doesn't apply since Gerry it flipped now.

I’m not sure where a stand on you, currently. I can’t help but feel that you have been manipulative.

Why?
I have literally not acheived any of my stated lynch goals yet in this game - what am I manipulating? Unless I manipulated you into voting Gerry somehow...?

I feel like you're trying to do more to prove me dumb rather then prove me scum. If that makes sense.

[Grendel]

When did I make an emotional appeal

Fear of Doc or a status quo kill would be my working theory.
What's yours?

Honestly I think my reads are just probably shit and I fucked up tbh

This is the first time I genuinely feel like I fucked things up in a game Im actually kind of annoyed with myself now that Im actually dealing with this in D2

These looked like emotional appeals while I was reading. I couldn't tell if the frusteration was town or not though.

[Grendel]

I'm annoyed because I was frantically trying to catch up before you hammered and I was paying attention and trying to get reads. But I don't remember all of that now because I never had a chance to post it.

And if I were scum, why would I come in here now and just jump on some random wagon like you're saying I'm doing? Wouldn't I have had like 3 days to plan out some good way to enter the game and not immediately get suspected?

Your argument doesn't make any sense.

The second point is just straight bad, b/c to acknowledge that you would do "x", or "y" as scum rather then "z" means that you are self aware enough to do just that to subvert what you'd do as scum.

The only instance I'd buy that is if what a player did really _would_ hurt their chances to win as scum, or if somebody else came to that conclusion.

Posting earlier then you'd perceive scum!you doing is not that.

[Grendel]

UNVOTE:

I hate to admit it, but I'm struggling to get reads I'm confident with this game.

I should look at some of the players I've been putting off

[Grendel]

I was scumreading you before you hammered. The hammer just seals it.

What were your thoughts on a Scum!Viafam before the hammer?

[Grendel]

@Rautherdir

Can you show me how you've sorted players thus far in the game.

I know you are think that its scum Viafam/Transend. And that you are town reading RC.

What were your other reads?

[Grendel]

I understand what you're saying RC. You're going for the mislynch on me, and night kill on JarJar, so you can easily coast to victory.

Weren't you town reading RC earlier?

It seems like you went into D2 town reading him.

When did that change?

[Grendel]

{Alisae,Grendel}
{RC,Keyser,Sheep}
{Vifam}
{Gerry,JarJar}

I'm fine with a Gerry lynch today, but I don't think 464 should ever come from any non-newbie town player.

VOTE: JarJar

Which is why I'm more confident on my read of you and Grendel than a few others.

Why were you town reading me?

I usually remember when someone town reads me, but for some reason seeing this surprised me.

Also your Jar jar read. You seemed sure he was scum yesterday, but now its like he is the shining hero who is defeating evil RC for you. Like you reads coming into today seem to have flipped completely.

Like why is RC scum instead of town but wrong?

[Grendel]

Why is Keyser a strong townread? I can see him as scum.

Explain this beyond, "He still had his RVS vote out"

Surly there is more to this read then that alone.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Vifam

I was part way through catching up when that stupid hammer came down. Just after reading about how Vifam didn't want to lynch either RC or Gerry.

My other scumread is Rautherdir.

At least Rauth has more meat to chew on now...

Yep. I wish more people were talking because I think gerryoat/RC is SvT or TvS. Right now I lean towards RC being town and gerryoat being scum, but I'll read over the game again just to be sure before voting.

UNVOTE: Akarin, she'll get prodded soon anyways...

This post

I don't really see the problem here. He decided his vote on you wasn't doing any good and wanted to be sure of his first impressions of both players. Seems reasonable considering the length and intensity of the back and forth between the two.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

It doesn't read like it was SvT. And I thought a lot of people were voting Gerry based on a townread on RC. I think scum were pushing that. And he didn't vote here, while pushing the narrative that there was scum involved.

Why are you acting like your opinion on the situation was the most commonly shared one?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I come in and vote Vifam.

Vifam argues with me for a bunch of posts about the one other read I have without talking about herself.

Vifam votes me over the other read.

This reeks of bull. What else was Vifam supposed to have said in regards to why he hammered Gerry? Why can't he focus and talk to you about two things at once?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don't really do cases, just reasons:

That's cool, I consider them the same thing

I don't like how he opened today, feels like he should be voting for RC or Keyser.

How come this? (I can understand your other points)

As to why I didn't sheep you on to Transcend is because I don't really have a read on your slot and from what I remember of D1, Transcend didn't come off as scummy.

Do you feel Transcend is town or null?

Wouldn't that just make him a bad/illogical player as opposed to scum?

Exclusive of alignment, it was an illogical progression of opinion-meditation-action. I.e his actions did not complement his perspective.

Correct me if I'm wrong - you created a town read off Vifam due to the play being so terrible as to be unwise for scum to do (which it was).
I would think that getting a scum read off of it is an equally valid opinion (play so terrible it is unwise for town to do - which it was).
At that point, if his logic here is empty, isn't yours equally empty?

Also, could you expand on why you logic Transcend as town? I understood your reasoning on RC and Vifam, but you offered none on Transcend.

Oh and as far as JarJar goes his push on RC is towniest thing I've seen so far on day 2. The tone was genuine, and all his points so far toward RC are valid concerns yet everyone is ignoring him.

I don't think it's fair to say that people are ignoring him. Two of his points are;

1. RC fake claims cop as scum.
2. RC's "fake" claim is countered by the Gerry flip.

I know I and at least one other person addressed #2 noting that it wasn't a direct counter claim in any way.
I know at least one person addressed #1 noting it is within RC's town meta to fakeclaim cop just as much as within his scum meta - making the play maybe bad, but not a good alignment tell.

What other points of JarJar's do you find good that people are ignoring?
What about the above equates to ignoring?
I'll agree that people aren't agreeing with him - is that what you meant to say? If so, what about his concerns do you find valid in the face of the counter arguments offered against it?

I felt he should be voting for one of those two based on his 683, 703, 767, 793, and 797. It sounds like he doesn't believe that RC is a PR at all or understands what motivation RC had to do what he was doing Day 1. It also sounds like he believes Keyser is fence sitting.

Transcend is null for me.

[Grendel]

I want to town read Luv. He's kind of reflected some of my unspoken thoughts on the game state thus far this game, and I think that is more likely to come from town then scum.

Hopefully.

[Vifam]

Join the Akarin wagon imo

[Vifam]

She's earned some serious pressure

[RadiantCowbells]

Fuck off I just read that slot and Akarin is town. I will vote you again if you keep pushing it.