Mini 1875: Pine's Death Trap Post Game - Town win!

[Keyser Söze]

I can confirm that I am ready to enter Pine's Death Trap.

[Keyser Söze]

I admire that firm stand. I hope Pine upholds the iron whip this game.

[Keyser Söze]

L-3

I'm hard.

[Keyser Söze]

Pine promised me pain.


Is this a normal single-scum faction set-up?

[Keyser Söze]

Does it matter?

I want to know if we're only hunting group-scum.

[Keyser Söze]

Thanks Pine, couldn't find it in the queue thread.



Rautherdir
gerryoat
JarJarDrinks
Soumil07

Whoever hammers I won't vote all of day 1...

[Keyser Söze]

"The first door may be bypassed only with a blood sacrifice"

What better sacrifice than the blood of a player claiming scum with players

VOTE: gerryoat
gerryoat wants pain, let's give it him...

But wait, would scum want pain?
UNVOTE: gerryoat

"Don't WIFOM out on a vote you pussy, Pine's not gonna modkill him. Plus, confidence isn't alignment indicative."

OK, let's see if he likes anal. VOTE: gerryoat




Actually, I still don't like this vote.

"Could we compromise on a player already town-reading gerryoat?"

Deal. VOTE: Transcend

"At least it gets us out of RVS."

[Keyser Söze]

Hey guys. I highly recommend FOSing me because you never know when RC could be an undercover scumfuck.

Finger of suspicion unnecessary RC. I respect your gut reads, so it's always good to keep you alive in the game past Day 1. But thankyou for the invitation.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: keyser

Now I was hoping for you to get all emotional and defensive...

I'm sorry but that naked OMGUS vote isn't good enough.
It's too cliché and non-committal.
Show me some frustration or at least some righteous indignation, otherwise I have nothing to bite on.

[Keyser Söze]

Hi Lil Uzi Vert, good to see you so soon! I'm glad Alisae is in here too.

I also have playing experience with JarJarDrinks and RadiantCowbells - two of my favourite players on MS (either alignment).

The rest are new faces I believe - I look forward to introducing them all to Lucille. She is thirsty.

[Keyser Söze]

[Probably my prefered set-up: not a complete sausage-fest, but enough players to keep the game engaging even if 3 or 4 players lurk out. Hopefully this is 10 town vs 3 scum, my ideal classic set-up. I like themed games too, because it gives you the room to add life and color to proceedings. Things tend to get serious on MS ]

[Keyser Söze]

Are you being serious Lil Uzi?

[Keyser Söze]

I tr rc

Are there anymore early town reads you wish to share?

[Keyser Söze]

I read JarJarDrinks' post in a different tone but I'll wait for him to confirm.



Transcend, don't ignore me. I want to be friends. We're gonna be trapped in this room together for two weeks.

[Keyser Söze]

Two weeks? Do you plan to night kill me n1 :p

Yes, two weeks. I prefer playing with the mindset that I only have the one day to hunt scum.

[Keyser Söze]

JarJar, does my tonal perception need to be reconfigured?

[Keyser Söze]

I read JarJarDrinks' post in a different tone but I'll wait for him to confirm.

Not sure what ur trying to confirm but my post was RVS and a jab @ RCs play.

Yes, that's what I thought, but I didn't want to jump to the defense of you.

[Keyser Söze]

@Transcend - do you find you form scum reads just as easy as town reads?

[Keyser Söze]

OK, I'll let you do your thing. I don't think it's as insidious as I first thought.

UNVOTE: Transcend

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: mattblackguy

[Keyser Söze]

Vifam puts the breaks on the mattblack train... was it going too fast for you?

[Keyser Söze]

Transcend was throwing out town reads on many players. That would have been a poor attempt to pocket or buddy players due to the prolific rate and substance of them.

[Keyser Söze]

Pretty sure Transcend always does early TRs like that. It's NAI

Thanks for that meta defense - I probably wasn't going to dig up Transcend's town and scum games.

The RVS wagon on you wasn't any fun. You didn't even blink! What a badass Didn't you at least want to warn us how close to L-1 you were? I would have raged - what if scum had a double voter?

[Keyser Söze]

Welcome Grendel. You're there aren't you? Come play with us.

VOTE: Grendel

[Keyser Söze]

I was personally thinking double voter already on the wagon (then an unsuspecting townie with the early-hammer).

[Keyser Söze]

Want out of RVS? Let me help you.

What do you think of RC's twitchiness about being given such an easy town read from Transcend? Do you think this behaviour is more often associated with paranoid townies? Or is scum-RC just as likely to make such a song and dance over it?

[Keyser Söze]

Happy with my vote on Grendel right now. Call it gut.

I feel like you are sharing highlights for the sake of posting. I don't believe they are genuine concerns / suspicions. Where's your vote right now?

[Keyser Söze]

Not convinced by Rauth so far. I want to see him upset an active player. Feels like he's trying to play a safe game. Once I see his teeth I may get a better look inside his soul.

[Keyser Söze]

I might go dig up a vote count of what the Matt wagon looked like when it was big cuz that's important.

If Mattblack is town maybe, but I wouldn't label it "important" until after a flip.

[Keyser Söze]

No Ali. Not until after a flip. Are you going to lynch off a RVS wagon on D1?

[Keyser Söze]

wtf Garrybote your reads are terrible right now.
Maybe you are scum.

Both scum and town can have shite reads. 1) do you know who is town so you know his reads are shit? 2) are you very familiar with a town-gerryoat who usually has great early D1 reads? 3) Did you want to give me a third option?

[Keyser Söze]

Holy shit, I didn't think you'd go down avenue number two. That is interesting.



Mattblack, we won't be analysing RVS wagons until Day 2.

[Keyser Söze]

Have you ever played with town gerryoat though?

Moreover, your town read of Grendel must be obviously strong right now.

[Keyser Söze]

Then why the fuck are you calling his reads terrible? We've just come out of RVS.

[Keyser Söze]

So only scum-Gerryoat is allowed to scum read you?

I find your defense short sighted.

[Keyser Söze]

wtf Garrybote your reads are terrible right now.
Maybe you are scum.

Let's edit this for accuracy then:

"wtf Garrybote your scum read of me is terrible right now."

[Keyser Söze]

Grendel is maf with Alisae. my reads are on point this game

You said Alisae was being defensive. Anything to add to that read?
What's your angle with Grendel? Or was you just jumping on my suspicions of him?

[Keyser Söze]

RC, this is why gerryoat is scum reading you:

RC is maf too. Trying to steer the direction of the game back into RVS when we just had a good discussion

He has not built a meta-case on you.

[Note: I did not see RC's vote as RVS, perhaps because I too have bad feels on Rauth's contribution so far, so I filled in the blanks in my head. I.e there was nothing scummy about RC's vote in my eyes]

[Keyser Söze]

Ok, I didn't like RC's overreaction:

As in, RC implied that gerryoat was scum reading everyone for the same reason (meta reasons) but gerryoat had a different reason for each player.

Ali - over defensive
Grendel - meta
RC - trying to extend RVS

[Keyser Söze]

Yes that discrediting was admittedly petty.

[Keyser Söze]

Who is 'town-RC' calling "idiots"?

[Keyser Söze]

Your failure to see what I am trying to explain and why gerryoat is scum-reading you doesn't make us "idiots".

Moreover, no one is getting lynched on the grounds they want to lynch you.

If everyone carried that same threat it would be any orgy of OMGUS.

Claiming a cop role this early does not make your reads any more accurate as anyone else's. However it does ensure you are not lynched Day 1.

[Keyser Söze]

No one should counter-claim either. Half the player list are still in RVS.

Claiming a PR does not strengthen your case on him. It weakens it.

[Keyser Söze]

gerryoat, RC is not being lynch Day 1. I would suggest unvoting.

[Keyser Söze]

I mean, I can show you. But why WOULD I? I'm not trying to convince you that you're scum.

If you want gerryoat lynched, roleclaiming cop won't do it. You have to convince us of scum-gerryoat.

[Keyser Söze]

you're going to get lynched because every single person in this game will realize that your reaction to my claim didn't come from town.

I personally didn't like your early cop roleclaim either. It's very short-sighted. What about the long-term? It's basically saying we can't lynch you now.

[Keyser Söze]

Quote fixed:

you're going to get lynched because every single person in this game will realize that your reaction to my claim didn't come from town.

I personally didn't like your early cop roleclaim either. It's very short-sighted. What about the long-term? It's basically saying we can't lynch you now.

[Keyser Söze]

Conclusion #1:

RadiantCowbells and gerryoat aren't in the same scum faction.

[Keyser Söze]

Conclusion #1:

RadiantCowbells and gerryoat aren't in the same scum faction.

You never know

60% of the time, my conclusions are right every time.

TvT / SvT / TvS for me.

[Keyser Söze]

My read DID make sense, key agreed as well. You're the one blowing things out of proportion

I saw why you were scum-reading RC (I did not agree with it though). That seems a lifetime ago now.

[Keyser Söze]

Fake-claiming anything cop is a bad idea. In this small game we are unlikely to have multiple cops so a newb-townie could have countered you and we'd been fucked in the ass. A newb-doc could have also protected you. I think both town and scum are going to react negatively to an early PR claim - I would find it hard to distinguish between the two negative reactions.

@RC - interestingly, did you find my reaction to your roleclaim town-indicative or scummy?

[Keyser Söze]

You tried to discredit me and got super defensive.

Could you see town-RC doing this just to get you lynched?

[Keyser Söze]

I agree that we are unlikely to have multiple cops and I would be suspect of anyone else who claims one. But obviously if someone actually is another cop variant they should not 'counterclaim' since I will be dying tonight anyway. I would lean town except for the fact that you are still not voting gerry and it feels like you might be scum with him waiting to see how the rest of the game reacts before you commit a vote to him.

I won't be joining a wagon on either of you or gerryoat because I don't believe in either case.

I am very confident that both of you are not in the same scum faction though. I cannot see any

long-term motivation

, because you're both unlikely to last the whole game now.

[Keyser Söze]

Mr. Newb-doc protecting me is exactly the point of this exercise you dolt.

Then that is selfish/anti-town play.

[Keyser Söze]

If you're not going to vote him then don't blame me if my last will is for you to be lynched tomorrow.

If gerryoat flips scum, then me trying to explain his reasoning to you could be seen as a hard defense. Then yes, I would expect to see pressure directed at me Day 2. But I doubt I will be lynched. I will use my own reasoning to defend myself without resorting to roleclaiming.

[Keyser Söze]

And that also explains his attitude towards being called Newb!Scum; he clearly cares more and tries harder and prides himself off of his scum play so being called newb here would probably bug him.

I usually town-lean that behaviour. I.e a player taking pride in his own scum-game and expressing hurt... viewing someone's critique of their game as a personal attack of their skill.


You are guilty of the same thing this game. That's why I'm resting my ballsack on TvT right now. I'm happy for the night phase to make the picture clearer too.

[Keyser Söze]

But after many games up to and including Miller's Hollow I would think that you would think better of my scumhunting ability.

Between correctly calling my N1 innocent result as a godfather, single handedly destroying your scumteam in 193, and single handedly ending Miller's Hollow with a successful lynch we hard drove and our venge shot...

Are you suggesting we just let you slip your cock down our throat based on your excellent play from previous games where you were town-aligned?

I will listen to your reads, but I wont sheep them blindly. It is better I am convinced that gerryoats is scum and I come to that conclusion naturally.

[Keyser Söze]

I am empathising with some of his reactions to your "roleclaim" / "newb scum case" / bringing up your own Greatest Hits - thus, I can't just help feel that gerryoats is in the same boat as me. I could imagine the frustration and shock he is experiencing.

[Keyser Söze]

All I see is shock and frustration but I will re-read later.

[Keyser Söze]

At least Rauth has more meat to chew on now...

[Keyser Söze]

Great to come back online and see 6 pages to get stuck into!

Rautherdir's view that RC vs gerryoat is "SvT or TvS" intrigues me as I felt it was TvT when I was caught between the cross-fire. I'll be interested to see how Rauth pursues his scum-reads.

I'd be happy to lynch Gerry.
I also am not overly fond of Alisae or Vifam and would consider them secondary scum reads at this stage.

Vote: Grendel

Do you like to pace your pressure on players? I did not expect that vote on Grendel given your direct introduction. [Ok, you later call it a "sheep" wagon, so this tangent vote on Grendel feels more natural to me now.]

Well I'm not caught up but he's obvtown to me so far.

great opening post from coopsheep

You have lots of love to give this game Jar Jar...

Yeah, I love Coop Sheep's breakdown of what RC's possible motivations were in regard the roleclaim. I like the logic.

Fuck me, Grendel was at L-1? We need to label that shit.

[Page 19 cont.]

[Keyser Söze]

Gerry is mighty scummy i admit

I still need help to get to "mighty scummy".
Could you explain why gerryoats is "might scummy", that remark carries alot of pressure on Gerry's slot (even if you aren't voting him). Coming out of nowhere just to keep the focus on gerryoats (while not adding anything tangible to his wagon) is suspicious.

[Keyser Söze]

It felt pro-town in nature and demonstrated an earnest pursuit of trying to understand Rautherdir's perspective while expressing his own stance to everyone. The logical delivery also helped me to look at my own analysis of what RC's motivation could have been. I don't believe Cooperative Sheep was putting this effort in just to win 'town points'. Plus, his explicit and balanced explanations of his reads and positions so far complement his 'looking for answers' persona. He posts in a style which will be hard to lynch.

"I don't see how the above points would be hard for scum to come to a conclusion too"

- I think that can be said about every post in this thread, but it is our job to make something up and see if it agrees with our limited or vast book of town/scum-tells.

[Keyser Söze]

@Pine VC please.

I am liking Grendel's 'comeback'. The tone is very coarse and probing, different to his earlier posts. He feels motivated now.
UNVOTE: Grendel

[Keyser Söze]

People keep saying gerryoat is scum but then they vote someone else...

Is it because:
1) you have a stronger scum read?
2) you think it is an inevitable lynch so you're going to jump on later?
3) are you waiting for your town reads to vote for him?
4) do you want to gain more information on other players then would gladly hammer?

gerryoat is one of the most active players so you should vote for him and ascertain if he really is scum NOW. People are labeling him scum but leaving it at that. Many agree with RC's reasoning that gerryoat's reaction to his PR-claim is categorically scum-indicative.

[Keyser Söze]

Who the fuck is cooperative sheep when the fuck did they get here

Gerry is mighty scummy i admit

I don't believe any of this outrage/emotion is genuine.

Show me - you appear detached from the game but then enter the game riled up.

Why aren't you trying to lynch "mighty scummy" gerryoat?

[Keyser Söze]

gerryoat still sounds genuinely dishonoured and demands justice:

lmao whenever you brag about how good you think you are, i'm gonna post this game

@gerryoat

What's your position on RC at the mo:
- "ego"-fueled townie strong-arming a lynch on his scum-read?
- do you still stand by the

scum-trying-to-extend-RVS

theory? Or have you revised your read on it?
- are you null on his "manbaby" conviction?
- I noticed you didn't flag Grendel for having RC as one of his strongest town-reads. You were concerned with his SR of you, and his TR of Ali. Does that mean you are ok with someone hard-town-reading RC?

[Keyser Söze]

why do you think i'm mafia?

I think I've already been over this... Oh. Hmm, I should clarify something.

I think either you or RC is scum. I have said that before. I'd rather lynch you before RC because of RC's claim

.

I still think this is an unsatisfactory answer from Rautherdir.


"I think gerryoat/RC is SvT or TvS" -

please explain why there MUST be scum in gerryoat and RC

(exclusive of RC PR-claiming).

At the moment, I feel like Rautherdir has parked an unsupported scum-read on gerryoat that he'll likely return to when things start getting sexual (probably near MC Hammer Time).

I want the full scum-feelings

now

.

[Keyser Söze]

Not convinced by Rauth so far. I want to see him upset an active player. Feels like he's trying to play a safe game. Once I see his teeth I may get a better look inside his soul.

Why would seeing him purposely upset active players make you feel better about his alignment?

Upset as in engage in an interaction that demands him to reason out a conflict of reads / ideas / beliefs. I want to see blood.

Not "upset" as in 'your breath stinks of penis'.

[Keyser Söze]

I just don't understand why you associate engaging with upset. I think him being himself has been enough so far.

"Engaging" does not = "upsetting". But it is one part of interactions I like to look at.

Part of my concern I am sure you should be able to relate to. You personally asked Rautherdir: "Are you usually this cautious?".

There is one type of mafia playing style I have encountered that Rautherdir has exhibited. Thus, I want to drill down on what he actually is posting (does he believe any of it? is he willing to broadcast those beliefs to everyone? is he willing to cause conflict in order to push his scum-reads?).

"I think him being himself has been enough so far."

- it sounds like you currenty town-read Rautherdir so I'd expect for that to be your default position. Do you have a problem with me wanting more from Rautherdir in order to 'enhance' my read of him?

[Keyser Söze]

1: Transcend if he doesn't reply
2: For me it's the 'we have 48 hours left in the day' lynch
3: I need to get town reads first
4: Definitely

Ok, that's clearer now.

As for why I think RC leans town, it's RC's claim and Gerry's reaction to it.

I didn't see you challenge "Gerry's reaction" until now. But that is the popular theme as to why gerryoats is scum.
What part of RC's 'reaction' did you scum-read in your early T-S / S-T theory?

[Keyser Söze]

Well you were one of the first players on the scene after their 'fight' so I wished you'd shared your reasons there and then and explained how Gerry's reaction was scummy in your own words. But it's gone now, so I'll have to let it pass. The seriousness/strength of your read on gerryoats is very clear now though.

[Keyser Söze]

@JarJar - what's your read on mattblackguy?

[Keyser Söze]

Tl;dr this plz

Is this the real life?
Is this just fake negligence?
Caught in a landslide...



P.EDIT yes, please catch-up when you can. Right now, not even a gerryoats-scum flip would make me town-read you.

[Keyser Söze]

Point accepted. Please continue.

I'll come back to your slot if you lynch town.

[Keyser Söze]

Nvm 622 was scummy as fuck

Not scummy, it's me clearly saying how I will approach your playstyle.

Basically you're saying 'leave me alone let me do my own thing'. I respect that.

I accept I can't change the way you have been playing. If you're contributing to lynching scum you won't be an immediate concern of mine (but still wouldn't be a town read, as in the case of a Gerry scum flip).

But if you are lynching town and not giving the whys/who's/when/how's to what you're doing I want to revisit your slot with heightened scrutiny.

[Keyser Söze]

I'm prone to error

Then would you like to explain how you are getting to your destinations?
Or shall we leave it to when we get intimate?

[Keyser Söze]

Point accepted. Please continue.

I'll come back to your slot if you lynch town.

Hey! Trans was on a wagon where a townie was lynched. He must be scum!
Am I rite?

Wrong.

[Keyser Söze]

Not really

We're cool then.

[Keyser Söze]

Point accepted. Please continue.

I'll come back to your slot if you lynch town.

Hey! Trans was on a wagon where a townie was lynched. He must be scum!
Am I rite?

Wrong.

Oh?
So you know your logic was bad there.
Good to know.

My logic was not "bad".

It was your narrow understanding of what I meant to say was

wrong

.

Do you really think I believe that

if a player lynches town that means they are confirmed scum

? That is insulting.

[Keyser Söze]

gerryoat is L-2 I believe.

[Note: We need to be more conscious of the VC now as in the case of Grendel. No quickhammers please. Still lots of information to gather].

[Keyser Söze]

I do like those dogs though

[Keyser Söze]

Even though I won't be joining the wagon I must admit it is the optimum info lynch based on the interactions so far this game.

No early hammer gentlemen.

[Keyser Söze]

If someone troll hammers and Gerry flips town I'm outta here.

[Keyser Söze]

I promise to give this game 48 hours more commitment.

If it remains an anti-town game it is a waste of my time and town's time.

I was disgusted with that hammer.

[Keyser Söze]

There are 3 players I will NOT be voting today:

RadiantCowbells
Vifam
Transcend

I refuse to believe they are obv-scum.

Their anti-town/scummy actions on D1 made me want to replace out.
People must remember this a team game. I do not respect selfish players.
I could spend all of D2 attacking their play but it's too easy work (however, I will express my position on all three players before moving on).
My only interactions with them today will be to find scum in the remaining pool (Grendel, Akarin, Rautherdir, JarJarDrinks, Lil Uzi Vert, Cooperative Sheep, mattblackguy).

[Keyser Söze]

RadiantCowbells

Spoiler: List of observations I made D1 I still remain unchanged on

1) RC was miss-repping gerryoat's reason for scum-reading him.
2) I do not like RC's overreaction to gerryoat's vote on him. RC miss-implied that gerryoat was scum reading everyone for the same reason.
3) RC refused to see what I was trying to explain, and refuse to acknowledge gerryoat's reason for scum-reading him
4) I felt RC's vote on gerryoat was OMGUS-fueled and tactically futile
5) claiming a cop role did not make his D1 reads any more accurate or trustworthy
6) RC claiming a cop role ensured he wouldn't be lynched D1
7) RC did not convince me of scum-gerryoats. RC claiming a cop role did not change that fact
8) RC's cop role claim was short-sighted (as town). I felt it insured his safe passage to N1/D2.
9) I did not believe the validity of RC's roleclaim. I thought fakeclaming a cop role in a small game was tactical suicide (as town) because a real cop would more likely counter. In this game, it was gerryoat's reaction (the real cop) to RC's claim that got him miss-lynched.
10) I did not see any long-term motivation in RC's play, because I thought he was unlikely to last the whole game now. WIFOM makes me town-lean that behaviour
11) I think his play is selfish and anti-town.
12) I felt RC's attempt to scare me on to the gerryoat wagon was pathetic and weak.
13) I town-leaned RC's behaviour of taking pride in his own scum-game, and viewing someone's critique of their game as a personal attack of their skill. I thus concluded RC vs gerryoat was TvT.
14) RC bringing up games where he had a great game as town was laughable. I was not going to blindly sheep RC into a wagon I did not believe in.

New thoughts:

RC spent the latter part of D1 forming association-reads off his main scum-read (gerryoats). Thus, basically anyone defending gerry, hedging on the gerry-wagon, or opposing the gerry-lynch were gerryoat's scum partners.

[All this paranoid/drawing-up-lines-together scum theory I would usually associate with a townie who has a very strong scum read of a player. Thus, he was stuck in confirmation-bias. Does scum-RC have the ability to replicate this behaviour? Yes - but in this game his name is fucked now. He played a large role in a misslynch and the indirect outing/death of the cop. His play just attracts an investigation / vig kill / reflex wagon. WIFOM: where is the scum-motivation in that?]

RC has now roleclaimed bulletproof townie - something you should never claim unless you are L-1/intent on you. RC has now ensured the only way he is getting out of this game is through a day lynch.

WIFOM dictates RadiantCowbells is town

who had sincere town-motivation to solve the game through his fake-claim gambit. His methods proved hurtful and disastrous. He's probably only got a couple more miss-lynches in him until someone pushes a policy lynch. I will not be voting for him unless night-actions prove he is scum. We must now work with him.

[Keyser Söze]

Vifam

That's weird I tend to keep all my thoughts to myself

Playing with Vifam, this rings very true.

I do not expect Vifam to present an exhaustive 2 page scum-case or detailed 10 bullet-point dossier on his scum reads.

On D1, Vifam kept repeating:

"I dont wanna lynch Gerry or RC today tho"
"I like Gerry"
"I just like having Gerry in the game he's entertaining"
"RC didn't really sell me with her argument on Gerry being scum"
"I don't think he's done anything scummy yet"
"Plus I just like him"
"I don't have a strong read on Gerry so I don't really feel like lynching him right now."
"I never said I was interested in lynching either of you"
"never said I was interested in lynching him or thought he was scum"

^^^Now if that isn't fucking clear enough I don't know what is.^^^

Then this happened:

Im gonna hammer it

VOTE: Gerry

- quickhammer with no roleclaim
- hammering a player that you did not scum read
- quickhammering before half the player list had caught up
- ending Day 1 prematurely

Yet another WIFOM argument:

Vifam's scummy/anti-town actions made me sick to the core. I wanted Lucille to kiss his skull with her barbed-wire teeth.
Scum do not play like that. I bet the majority of players right now would consider a Vifam policy-lynch as a pro-town move.
As scum you must set yourself up for the long game. If you're going to bury yourself you at least make sure your scum partner is the one who drives the dagger into your back.
In this scenario, everyone has justifiable reason to lynch Vifam.
There is no scum-gain.
No one can win any town-points from his lynch.
Was his purpose only to kill 1 townie for 1 scum?
He wasn't even a mass-scum read so he could have just continued his low-key trajectory and stayed off the grid.
Now he's put a target on his head (inviting both day and night attention).

Scum-motivation?
So players like Keyser can town-read him using WIFOM? I don't buy that.

I won't be voting Vifam.

[Keyser Söze]

Transcend

I still stand by what I told Transcend on Day 1:

Nvm 622 was scummy as fuck

Not scummy, it's me clearly saying how I will approach your playstyle.

Basically you're saying 'leave me alone let me do my own thing'. I respect that.

I accept I can't change the way you have been playing. If you're contributing to lynching scum you won't be an immediate concern of mine (but still wouldn't be a town read, as in the case of a Gerry scum flip).

But if you are lynching town and not giving the whys/who's/when/how's to what you're doing I want to revisit your slot with heightened scrutiny.

Now I don't give a fuck who you think you are, but you are now sharing the reasons why you are town-reading / null-reading / scum-reading players.

On Day 1 I said I would allow you room to do whatever you think you're doing, but your actions contributed to a miss-lynch.

1) I did not respect or understand your reads Day 1.

This needs to change for Day 2.

2) I did not like your interactions around the Gerry-lynch.

It was scummy as fuck and opportunistic but I will not push your lynch for it.

3) I did not like you goading Vifam to quickhammer Gerry.

It was sickening but I will not push your lynch for it. More likely two townies being selfish and fucking up.

4) You said my "posts feel overdone and ingenuine".

That is your subjective opinion so I must respect that, but I hope you make your contributions more 'done' and 'genuine' for the benefit of this game.

I do not know what is in Transcend's head. I do not know his motivations. All I see so far are the results of his actions.

I am unlikely to vote for Transcend today.

[Keyser Söze]

@Keyser

Even though I won't be joining the wagon I must admit it is the optimum info lynch based on the interactions so far this game.

No early hammer gentlemen.

I'd like to hear some of your conclusions.

You seemed to have some thoughts pending the flip.

Yes, I will want to discuss these interactions next.

It all stems from my paranoia on D1:

People keep saying gerryoat is scum but then they vote someone else...

Is it because:
1) you have a stronger scum read?
2) you think it is an inevitable lynch so you're going to jump on later?
3) are you waiting for your town reads to vote for him?
4) do you want to gain more information on other players then would gladly hammer?

gerryoat is one of the most active players so you should vote for him and ascertain if he really is scum NOW. People are labeling him scum but leaving it at that. Many agree with RC's reasoning that gerryoat's reaction to his PR-claim is categorically scum-indicative.

I will first look at Cooperative Sheep, Rautherdir and JarJarDrinks.

[Keyser Söze]

I may look at mattblackguy first actually:

The fact that Keyser didn't make a vote outside of RVS yet was still active is a little concerning.

Either you did not fully read Day 1 or you are scum.

VOTE: mattblackguy

You can start by deconstructing your read of JarJarDrinks from Day 1 through to Day 2 (from scum-read to town-read)

GO!

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Vifam

Is this why you think Vifom is scum?

Vifam's hammer doesn't make any sense from a townie's perspective.

Vifam said he didn't think Gerry was scum

, and that he didn't want to lynch Gerry because "I like him". Doesn't make sense to hammer him before he even gets a chance to claim then.

...because he contradicted himself?

Wouldn't that just make him a bad/illogical player as opposed to scum?

Exclusive of alignment, it was an illogical progression of opinion-meditation-action. I.e his actions did not complement his perspective.

[Keyser Söze]

So you're forming a town bloc based on people you think are anti-town?

From my experiences on MS, anti-town does not equal scum.

Are you lazy town or lazy scum?

[Keyser Söze]

Apologies for my non-activity.

My re-read of Rauth, Sheep and JarJar is next.

[Keyser Söze]

Rautherdir re-read

I have no idea what is happening but I guess it's RVS so I'll just vote someone.

VOTE: Akarin

'Ah, look at me, I have no idea what I'm doing, but I'll narrate it to make sure you know I'm here'

. I don't agree with voting a non-active player. Why not vote an active player and engage? This is probably me disagreeing with Rautherdir's playstyle than anything.

You'll be waiting until after RVS to see me do anything other than vote the last person in the activity overview. Which, by the way, is what I'm doing right now.

Rautherdir wasn't going to change just because I wanted him to - I respect that.

I think gerryoat/RC is SvT or TvS. Right now I lean towards RC being town and gerryoat being scum, but I'll read over the game again just to be sure before voting.

I don't know how Rautherdir ruled out a TvT scenario. Why did their interaction have to have scum in it? I disagreed with Rauth's "RC being town and gerryoat being scum" early conclusion. I suspected on day 1: was Rauth crowbarring in a scum-read so that they could later vote gerry? [Note: but Rauth did not later vote gerry, and wasn't part of his quickhammer].

Rauth asks JarJar why he thought his "I have no idea what is happening" post was scummy. Vifam didn't like it either. Rauth replies:

"Let me just put it this way: This is my second game."

. Ok, Rauth is playing the newb-card. I don't like this.

I do think we shouldn't lynch Gerry quite yet though. While reading through the game some posts caught my eye.

Let's see if Rauth presents these ideas or lets gerry hang un-opposed.

414 Seriously? Transcend, remind me again why you are voting me.

I didn't like Transcend's naked votes on D1 either - so I identify with Rauth's frustration here.

414 Seriously?

Transcend, remind me again why you are voting me.

Please respond. I would actually like to know why you are voting me.

VOTE: Transcend

Rauth is happy to escalate his frustratrion to a vote/pressure. Nice.

And as to Gerry... I'm just going to ignore him for a while. I'll probably support a wagon on him later on though, when I don't have anyone else to bother.

I hated this hedging. Rauth had earlier said "we shouldn't lynch Gerry quite yet" based on posts he had read (not yet highlighted) - why support a wagon on him now? If you have scum-feelings for a player you talk to them directly, not "ignore" them and see how their wagon unfolds. Tbh, it's weird you would admit to this though.

Rauth talking to gerry:

Have I ever townread you? You and Transcend are my strongest scumreads so far. I happen to be pestering Transcend right now, and after that I'll be poking around for other scumreads. If neither of those plans pan out into a lynch I'll be getting on your wagon.

"strongest scumreads" - ok, Transcend's naked vote, I can see how that could annoy you (OMGUS-fueled).
I still can't see why you had gerry as one of your "strongest scumreads" who you weren't going to engage directly.
Why vote Transcend who was playing his own closed-game, and not gerry, who was one of the most active/open players from Day 1?
I don't understand the reasoning here. Neither did I understand the nature of this 'strongest scumread'.

ok the last line is better. but the way you explained it made no sense. why do you think i'm mafia?

I think I've already been over this... Oh. Hmm, I should clarify something.

"I think I've already been over this"

... NO YOU HAVEN'T. You were refusing to disclose the in's and out's of your scum-read. Why?

I think either you or RC is scum. I have said that before. I'd rather lynch you before RC because of RC's claim.

I was not satisfied with this reason.

I still could not understand how gerry was your strongest scum-read.

As for why I think RC leans town, it's RC's claim and Gerry's reaction to it.

This is the first time Rauth mentions not liking Gerry's "reaction" to RC's claim. So many people were sheeping that idea around - it felt like Rauth had adopted it too.


Day 1 conclusion:

- I felt your Transcend scum-read felt real/plausible (OMGUS/frustration)
- I DO NOT understand how you got your strongest scum-read of gerry. My suspicion is that you were sheeping a popular view. If you believed it with your own reasons, you would have pressed gerry harder.

Day 2

RC is town PR.

Is that a fact or your belief?

"I think gerryoat/RC is SvT or TvS"

"I think I said I was sure it was TvS/SvT."

"I failed to take into account that Gerry could be a power-role."

Again, why did you NOT like gerry's reaction to RC's roleclaim on D1?

[Keyser Söze]

This is PL until he replaces out or produces content.

I want to give him at least 1 more day.

[Keyser Söze]

Cooperative Sheep re-read

Why do you not want to lynch Gerry? He seems a perfectly fine lynch option.
I'd be happy to lynch Gerry.

...but votes Grendel [he later explains it as a pressure wagon. I respect that. I just wished I'd seen more Gerry-Cooperative Sheep interactions on Day 1].

You certainly implied it though, and then defended the idea of not lynching him off of the meaningless-to-alignment tell of liking him. It's not a smoking gun, but if he's scum you've done actions that I can easily describe as defensive and deflective for the slot while also doing some sort of vague either-or setup for no discernible reason. It reads to me as a soft setup to allow you to push a false argument (one of them is scum, options open) but when questioned on it you kind of did an awkward defense of both. I think it reads as softly scummy in general, and if Gerry is scum I could see it as defense. Clearly you'll disagree, because either you're scum who will lie or you're town who did it without malice - but it's what it looks like to me.

Cooperative Sheep painting a Vifom-Gerry scum-scum picture.

Sounds like Cooperative Sheep didn't know gerry is town

. Why would scum-Cooperative Sheep be trying to scare town-Vifam about defending town-gerry... (town-lean this suspicion).

That is impressive misdirection from Cooperative Sheep if he is scum!


[Hard to pick apart any of Cooperative Sheep's posts - they are all finely explained. Every move he makes he shares his motive, theories and conclusions. As I said before, his playstyle is so water-tight, it'll be hard to lynch him. I genuinely hope he finds scum, then we start wondering: "why the fuck is scum keeping alive such a pro-town player? Every sentence he writes I can follow. If he is town (which I would lean right now) I'd like to play with him again in a future game].

Vote: Transcend

I find Vifam's behavior yesterday to be incredibly aggressive scum.
I find Transcend to be skating sneaky scum.
I think one is more likely than the other.

I think all three of Sheep's observations are valid opinions to hold based on Vifam's/Transcend's D1 actions.

The Transcend case has value - he is contributing nothing, and had suspect vote movement yesterday considering flips, and also is a slot that works within the confines of a 'don't jar the status quo' potential kill.

Again, all valid points.

Grendel wagon yesterday sucked and it contained {Keyser, matt, Sheep, JarJar, Vifam}

I bet at least 2 scum were here.

By what logic do you conclude one scum on a known town PR flip and 2 scum on an unknown flip that you're not even overly confident is town?

I like this question alot.
Why does Transcend want to lynch off Grendel's RVS wagon (Grendel is confirmed nothing).
But we have gerry's wagon to analysis (town flip).

Also, could you expand on why you logic Transcend as town? I understood your reasoning on RC and Vifam, but you offered none on Transcend.

@Cooperative Sheep, fair observation. My read on RC and Vifam is different to my read on Transcend.
I do not town-read Transcend:

"I do not know what is in Transcend's head. I do not know his motivations. All I see so far are the results of his actions.
I am unlikely to vote for Transcend today."

He is the wrong side of null at the moment and an easy lynch I could get over the line today or tomorrow. However, in the chance he is letting his ego getting in the way of him effectively playing the game (as town), I wanted him to use Day 2 as his last chance saloon.

After this read, I want to call Cooperative Sheep an ally now. Hard town lean. I'm going to bury my suspicion of him to the back of my head (scum playing the 'perfect-safe-meticulous-game'). Tbh, I do not think I'll be voting him at all this game unless we're at at LYLO and it's him versus me.

[Keyser Söze]

My only interactions with them today will be to find scum in the remaining pool (Grendel, Akarin, Rautherdir, JarJarDrinks, Lil Uzi Vert, Cooperative Sheep, mattblackguy).

I've taken out Cooperative Sheep's name from this list.

Does anyone disagree?

Rautherdir stays in, on account of his unresolved scum-read of gerry. I may be hating on his "newb" sensibilities, but I think everyone should be able to explain their suspicions in their own words.


I want a satisfactory read on all these players before the end of D2: (Grendel, Akarin, Rautherdir, JarJarDrinks, Lil Uzi Vert, mattblackguy)

[Keyser Söze]

Yes, that was my personal position, sorry.

We agree he is off today's lynch pool though.

[Keyser Söze]

I am now satisfied.

Thank you.

[Keyser Söze]

Transcend, is this the way you want to leave this game?

Selfishly clutching to your closed play-style?

You're making your lynch easy work.

Start explaining your reads.

[Keyser Söze]

PLAYER A is a misslynch because:

PLAYER B is a scum because:

PLAYER C is town because:

PLAYER D & PLAYER E is TvT because:

PLAYER F is fake because:

[Keyser Söze]

Well played Transcend.


No quickhammer gentlemen.

Can I please read 4 more players.

[Keyser Söze]

Transcend is at L-1. Be careful.

Thanks Matt!

[Keyser Söze]

As if you'd claim

It would mean conceding.

Pride's a bitch ain't it.

[Keyser Söze]

I feel like Keyser is daring Transcend to self-hammer here and I don't like it.

I want Transcend alive standing next to me Day 3.

[Keyser Söze]

Rauths reads list is pretty terrible. Everyone except trans and RC are some variation of null. Reeks of scum trying to keep his options open.

I haven't looked in depth at your D2 posts but what are YOUR reads today?

It was difficult to get any firm reads out of Rauth D1 [like getting blood out of a rock] so I feel he naturally wouldn't have a spectrum of reads on D2 with only 10 interactions today.

[Keyser Söze]

So for people voting for Transcend, how many of you are policy voting, and how many of you think he's scum?

One of the best questions asked.

From my perspective he is a policy lynch. Not going to hammer him on the 3 in 11 chance of him being scum. He hasn't given his slot justice IMO. The fact he won't even roleclaim hints he doesn't give a fuck on what we think either.

[Keyser Söze]

@Keysor, I'll do a full readslist tomorrow. RC is surely scum though and by far my strongest scumread. It upsets me that ur not on my side w/ this one as everything about his claim and play here mirrors the game where you and I led a lynch on scum-RC.

My only remaining suspicion on him this game is that he has left me alone since I said I town read him (and not willing to lynch him). I would have expected at least some paranoia from him. Perhaps the town flip of Gerry has quashed his scum read of me though.

In regard that previous game, this feels different.

I feel like you have buddied up to me too easy this game. Am I really that obv-town to you?

[Keyser Söze]

Re-reading D2.

RC: Why did you roleclaim BP again? Didn't you want to eat bullets?

[Keyser Söze]

Rauth believed RC to be town for a "fact".

[Keyser Söze]

Leaning town this game. But the fact you play aggressive and utilise anti-town gambits as both alignments I will not be shocked if you flip scum.

I liked your effort to try and get something out of Transcend too. It demonstrated your warm side

[Keyser Söze]

While Transcend composes his thoughts...



Can someone please show me why Lil Uzi Vert is town.

[Keyser Söze]

@Rauth - your readslist has a strong core of null reads.

Do you think your 10 posts today are helping you sort these players?

Or are you happy with your scum reads of Transcend, Vifam and LUV?

[Keyser Söze]

We're just playing to our WIN-CON.

We do not want to lynch someone we're not scum-reading.

If you want someone lynched you have to convince the other town players to join you. Your reads might have been 100% right but the game isn't about who has great reads, it's about lynching scum as a team. Listing names won't achieve anything.

Good luck in your next game though mate.

[Keyser Söze]

Welcome nancy!

[Keyser Söze]

UNVOTE:

By way of summary what was the nature of your scum-read of Transcend?

[Keyser Söze]

Why Rauth?

He called you town/town PR as a fact. Zero paranoia or doubt.

[Keyser Söze]

Nancy's impressive scum-case on RC did make me feel like I was an idiot for town-leaning his D1 play - such the artistry of her RC-scum-narrative persuasion.

[Keyser Söze]

Is the answer... "never needlessly tell scum that you are a bulletproof townie"?

[Keyser Söze]

@Jar Jar

I'm playing this RC scum-narrative through my head...

RC is town PR.

Does this make Rauth, RC's scum partner?

I feel like Rauth is town-clearing RC (through an investigation?).
Rauth is talking "facts" not theories or blind opinion. Rauth's assured stance wanted me to stay away from both of them D2.

[Keyser Söze]

Cooperative Sheep

- Town. Doesn't have that many posts but the ones that do are full of good content. Makes alot of good points that I agree w/ and is solidly scumhunting.

Yes - Coop Sheep is one of the 'active' scum-hunters presenting his 'logical' breakdowns. I agree he's the classic 'towniest-looking player' in a game full of lynch-bait, null-reads, lurkers and anti-town culprits.

mattblackguy

- townlean. He had a good explaination for what I thought was scummy and he's pushing RC.

Can't see town yet - my attack on him was admittedly OMGUS-fueled, so I'd like to re-read his D2 posts with a level head.

Nancy

- townlean. Her posts so far have been good enough to negate my bad feelings about transcend.

Transend, I was happy to null read/wait for him to contribute til D3 instead of policy lynching him (based on his D1 actions) - Nancy's focused and pointed opening has made me re-think my stance on RC's D1 play.

Lil Uzi Vert

- Null. Need more content. I've had trouble reading Uzi in the past and he hasn't posted nearly enough for me to get any type of real read

Yes, null-zone sounds about right. Best case: he's lurking town with real-life shit right now, unable to solve the game. Worst case: he's scum getting a free-ride, coasting through each day.

Grendel

- null slightly scummy. Grendel doesn't seem to say or do much. There's nothing overtly scummy but I get the impression he's being extra carefull w/ his posts.

Didn't like his start to D1, but everytime he makes an effort (in his catch-up posts), he seems to dispell those fears.

Akarin

- slight scumlean. I feel like alot of her questions directed @ me are designed to get me to scumread Matt and/or townread RC. Agree w/ her vif and rauth reads though.

Wasn't present D1, weirdly not gaining any lean from her D2 posts.

Rautherdir

- scum. Just playing the noob card way too hard. So many LAMIST posts

I suspected he was using the noob card too - but his laboured and late explanations to his reads always seem to clear up the fog he creates. He believes for a fact that RC is a town PR too.

Vifam

- Scum. Have already posted about how he tried to imply that one of RC/Gerry was scum and then backtracked. The derphammer is self-explanatorily bad.

I WIFOM'd myself out of scum-reading his 'obv-scum' D1 play. I began D2 thinking he was a townie having a nightmare game.

[Keyser Söze]

What question?

[Keyser Söze]

What question?

Is this a joke because I can only omgus people?

I know that isn't a serious question but you didn't address what RC was getting at, which is why are you asking that/what do you mean?

Yes, it was a joke question because RC can only OMGUS people


No, it was a serious question. I didn't expect his next vote to be Rauth (perhaps I was naively transferring my own read of Rauth onto RC, and second guessing his read/reaction on Nancy's big post).

RC has now remarked: "Whether or not she's town or not doesn't make her right." (thus, he thinks that slot could be town now: if she's town, it doesn't mean she's right though).

I'd take another angle... playing the Devil's Advocate, the problem is: RC's actions could fit the scum-narrative that Nancy has painted like a glove,

but RC could still be town who did all those anti-town/scummy things!

[Keyser Söze]

Rauth, is RC town?

Do not post absolutes in a readslist unless you can explain why.

Is it an opinion or fact?


Whether RC is the bulletproof townie is a game-breaker here.

[Keyser Söze]

Sorry for making you claim Rauth but I thought the rest of D2 was going only one way. Your position on RC unnerved me.

[Keyser Söze]

I look forward to JarJar's and RC's next move.

[Keyser Söze]

Hoping to sort you this weekend LUV If anyone has concrete reads on the following 3 players please share:

LUV
Mattblack
JarJar


My JarJar read is a weird one - I feel like he's town as per his town meta but I still don't trust him.

[Keyser Söze]

You were going to be lynched.

You voted Rauth.

I think I needed to step in.

[Keyser Söze]

Rauth, is RC town?

Do not post absolutes in a readslist unless you can explain why.

Is it an opinion or fact?


Whether RC is the bulletproof townie is a game-breaker here.

Whether you and Rauth are town is the game breaker.

We can continue from there.

I'd witnessed enough votes on your slot to realise the momentum was changing (Transcend's replacement's case on you even gave me cold feet on my town lean on you!). Scum-Rauth would not town-clear scum-RC imo.

If true, we now have a bulletproof townie, a cop who can be protected and a wagon that can be analyzed.

[Keyser Söze]

Can we please stop the '1 in 3 are scum', '2 in 5 are scum' theories.

I'd prefer to see a scum flip before ruling out partners.

[Keyser Söze]

I apologise RC.

[Keyser Söze]

Reading through LUV's 50 post ISO now... on phone so excuse the poor presentation.

VOTE: RC


He should have had @ least 3 hard scumreads that he's pushed insanely strong by now.

This is a bit of a reach here. The game just officially started.

Are you being serious Lil Uzi?

Yes

At the time this felt to me like LUV was giving JarJar a scum read for no reason. "Reach"? JarJar was obviously being sarcastic.

[Keyser Söze]

if i keep them to myself, how can i help town

By not helping scum.

how are my reads terrible? how do you know grendel is town?

Why are your reads good? How do you know Grendel's scum?

Are these questions helping Gerry help LUV. No.

I have no idea what is happening but I guess it's RVS so I'll just vote someone.

VOTE: Akarin

Scummy post

No, your reply is the actually definition of scummy. Where's your vote? Where are the attempts to dig? Do you not care why he thinks Gerry is scum and RC is town?

More of LUV scum reading hard on JarJar. Let's see the development of LUV vs JarJar through the game. No vote yet!

[Keyser Söze]

Hey mama, I'm all caught up!

I think there are at least two scum within Gerry/Jar/Matt/Vifam.

VOTE: Gerry

Oh no, LUV votes my boyfriend instead. I think his vote should have been on JarJar here.

Not convinced by Rauth so far. I want to see him upset an active player. Feels like he's trying to play a safe game. Once I see his teeth I may get a better look inside his soul.

Why would seeing him purposely upset active players make you feel better about his alignment?

Upset as in engage in an interaction that demands him to reason out a conflict of reads / ideas / beliefs. I want to see blood.

Not "upset" as in 'your breath stinks of penis'.

I just don't understand why you associate engaging with upset. I think him being himself has been enough so far.

I don't know why LUV was grilling me on this. I had a reason of concern on Rauth. (Rauth has just revealed he was being closed and scummy on purpose so it explains his behaviour perfectly now). I don't know why LUV had to step in and defend Rauth.

[Keyser Söze]

I have no idea what is happening but I guess it's RVS so I'll just vote someone.

VOTE: Akarin

Scummy post

No, your reply is the actually definition of scummy. Where's your vote?

I pointed out his post was scummy. That doesn't mean I automatically vote him. I pointed out other scummy posts as well.

Where are the attempts to dig?

What else can I really say about that post? I explained to him why I thought it was scummy.

Do you not care why he thinks Gerry is scum and RC is town?

Sure I care.

Well my thing is, why? Just saying it's scummy without backing it up is pointless and arguably will help him in the long run if he's scum. He'll know that whatever he did, said, or how he said something isn't ok and possibly will be able to adjust and blend in better.

I really don't like last part of this reply. Does it sound sarcastic to anyone else?

I just don't understand why you associate engaging with upset. I think him being himself has been enough so far.

"Engaging" does not = "upsetting". But it is one part of interactions I like to look at.

Part of my concern I am sure you should be able to relate to. You personally asked Rautherdir: "Are you usually this cautious?".

There is one type of mafia playing style I have encountered that Rautherdir has exhibited. Thus, I want to drill down on what he actually is posting (does he believe any of it? is he willing to broadcast those beliefs to everyone? is he willing to cause conflict in order to push his scum-reads?).

"I think him being himself has been enough so far."

- it sounds like you currenty town-read Rautherdir so I'd expect for that to be your default position. Do you have a problem with me wanting more from Rautherdir in order to 'enhance' my read of him?

Yes I currently town read him and I think I do. I'm not completely sure yet because I haven't had a chance to mull it over deeply but from your original request, it seems like you want him to purposely go out of character.

Point accepted. Please continue.

I'll come back to your slot if you lynch town.

Huh?

For the love of God get your vote on JarJar, you've presented the biggest case on him but not followed through with a vote.

More defending of Rauth. Why was I not allowed to question his suspicious behaviour? He wasn't confirmed town.

[Keyser Söze]

On a serious note, I think scum is in Jar, Matt, Sheep, and Vifam. I can't seem to get a solid read on Akarin.

I think JJD is town too I forgot about him

Why are you town reading Jar? Is it for his recent tunneling? If so, what are your thoughts on RC's take on that?

Again... on Day 2..."I think scum is in Jar", "why are you town reading Jar?"

You haven't shown you believe it yet. Where's your vote right now... it was on RC...

[Keyser Söze]

Pre-flip association analysis on LUV and JarJar... it's not looking good gents.


Your vote on Gerry was too easy. But your whole D1 push was on JarJar.


I feel a disturbance in the force.

[Keyser Söze]

Don't tell me how I'm supposed to react to your crap.

This is scum flail.

You're just lashing out here in hopes that people will let up. I don't think any amount of pressure at this point is going to help discren your alignment.

VOTE: RC

This is a really sketchy way to push a narrative.

I was just saying how I feel. Why do you feel like I'm not telling the full story?

How you feel huh?

How do you feel about JarJar?

[Keyser Söze]

Vifam probably isn't scum sadly.

--

VOTE: Matt

I really don't like last part of this reply. Does it sound sarcastic to anyone else?

Hard to tell in text - if he had said "Suuuuuuure I care" then, yeah, sarcastic, if he had said "Sure I care" then, no. Can't tell without tonal inflections.

Vifam probably isn't scum sadly.

--

VOTE: Matt

Could you tell me whyI should sheep onto Matt and also why you didn't sheep onto Transcend?

I don't really do cases, just reasons:

His joking around with Gerry earlier felt forced.
His vote for Grendel also felt forced. It read to me like he sensed he needed to do a strong town motivated play at the time to discourage any suspicion.
I didn't like how he just sort of shrugged of the chance to get a better idea of RC's alignment who he claims he's wary of.
I don't like how he opened today, feels like he should be voting for RC or Keyser.

--

As to why I didn't sheep you on to Transcend is because I don't really have a read on your slot and from what I remember of D1, Transcend didn't come off as scummy.

Votes Matt early doors.


Why jump off this wagon where all your reasons sound like you've convinced yourself of Matt = scum?

[Keyser Söze]

Hoping to sort you this weekend LUV If anyone has concrete reads on the following 3 players please share:

LUV
Mattblack
JarJar


My JarJar read is a weird one - I feel like he's town as per his town meta but I still don't trust him.

I think I need a flip within these three.

For now... VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert


I think I'm caught up in confirmation bias.

[Keyser Söze]

I sadly won't be voting Vifam at all this game unless there is a GUILTY/incriminating evidence on him.

[Keyser Söze]

Whenever Grendel isn't posting I get scum feels, but as soon as he posts I get town feels.

[Keyser Söze]

I think I'm caught up in confirmation bias.

Nah he's scum

The confirmation bias is in regard yours and JarJars associations with LUV ( through his posts).


Will need to sort you and JarJar now.

[Keyser Söze]

If LUV and JarJar flip scum, it will look bad for you. D1 you scum read JarJar hard. Start of D2 he was then a town read. And now he's back in your list of players that you'd happily lynch.

This is all association theory though. One flip at a time.

[Keyser Söze]

I still don't get why you're scumreading me for not voting someone when the quickhammer came down. I was busy defending Gerry and waiting for a roleclaim. I didn't expect Vifam to hammer, ending D1 prematurely (how many days left did we have til deadline?!) More than half of the player list hadn't contributed to my satisfaction (my reads were thus INCOMPLETE).

How can you be scum reading me, if you'd read Day 1? You should have understood how D1 unfolded.

[Keyser Söze]

@Nancy - that question was in regard D1's deadline. Was it really 2 days?

Re: order of lynch: I'm still reading players.

[Keyser Söze]

As I remember it, yeah, it was like 2 days and 14 hours or something.

Game started Jan 30th.
Gerry was quickhammered Feb 1st.



We should have had 14 days.



Why is MATT scumreading me for not voting / developing strong scum reads?

[Keyser Söze]

Going to bump this analysis from Akarin:

The statement from Matt is scummy regardless. I've already said that the statement could come from scum matt even if RC is scum as well. But it makes way more sense for scum matt to make it about town RC.

And as I said later, It's not impossible for for them both to be town. My statement was directed @ trans and how terrible it was for him to be townreading the both of them.

Yeah, I can see why Matt's post is scummy, but that's not what I'm asking. You said later they could both be town. But exactly as you just said, you think it was terrible for Transcend to be townreading both of them. Which means you think that if RC is town, Matt should be more likely than average to be scum.

But nothing you've said explains that. Why do you think that?

If RC is town... where should JarJar's vote be right now?

[Keyser Söze]

Current tin-foil hat:

JJD likely the scum with powerful PR.
LUV disposable goon or deadweight scum.
Matt the third lynch through associations.

Vifam "policy lynch" too early. He's been in my town pile ever since the hammer

Lynch LUV 1st, incase the associations were planted.

[Keyser Söze]

One last look at the VC...

==> Vote Count 1.5 (FINAL) <==

With 13 votes in play, it's 7 to lynch!

Given his name, it should come as no surprise that this was the most favored method of execution by Vlad the Impaler. In 15th century Romania; the victim was forced to sit on a sharp and thick pole. When the pole was then raised upright, the victim was left to slide down the pole with their own weight. It could take the victim 3 days to die using this method and it has been said that Vlad once did this to 20,000 people all while enjoying a meal.

[L-7]

Alisae -

[L-6]

Grendel - Cooperative Sheep,

[L-7]

Akarin -

[L-7]

Rautherdir -

[LYNCH ACHIEVED]

gerryoat - RadiantCowbells, Alisae, Grendel, Lil Uzi Vert, Transcend, JarJarDrinks, Vifam

[L-6]

JarJarDrinks - mattblackguy

[L-7]

Lil Uzi Vert -

[L-7]

Transcend -

[L-7]

Cooperative Sheep -

[L-7]

Keyser Söze -

[L-6]

Vifam - gerryoat

[L-7]

mattblackguy -

[L-7]

RadiantCowbells -

Waiting for their DOOM

- Akarin, Keyser Söze, Rautherdir

Day 1 ends NOW

Yes, let's do this.

Matt leaving his vote on JarJar... only fuels my theory even more.

Scum needed to be present on that wagon to ensure the miss-lynch...

[Keyser Söze]

@keyser yeah putting gerry to l-1 was like the primary reason i

scumread the slot

Was your earlier town read of JJD and scum-read of RC really a reaction-test?

Can you confirm please.

[Keyser Söze]

What's the case against me again?

Basically being in the wrong place at the wrong time in the two most pivotal moments of the game so far:

Gerry's misslynch and RC's wagon

[Keyser Söze]

JJD
LUV
Vifam
MBG

Terrible reads. Vifam is the only person in this list that I'd consider lynching today.

You're not even town-reading LUV

[Keyser Söze]

Was her town read of you a reaction test too?

[Keyser Söze]

Everyone else: Any suggestions as to who I should investigate?

Investigate a player who is being scum-read by the majority.
Keep it secret for now.

If we have a tracker, watcher or doctor we should be able to resolve a few things tonight...

[Keyser Söze]

On a serious note, I think scum is in Jar, Matt, Sheep, and Vifam. I can't seem to get a solid read on Akarin.

Please give me a bulletpoint summary on:

Matt and Sheep

[Keyser Söze]

On a serious note, I think scum is in Jar, Matt, Sheep, and Vifam. I can't seem to get a solid read on Akarin.

Please give me a bulletpoint summary on:

Matt and Sheep

Of their ISO or my reasoning for scum reading them?

Reasons for scum reading them.

[Keyser Söze]

Take care Vifam.
No more quickhammers.
see you soon x

[Keyser Söze]

Hi Fro99er, good to have you on board.

[Keyser Söze]

Did transcend claim?

VT

[Keyser Söze]

No it's nothing to do with that. It's not the fact that he's tunneling it's the fact that he's reducing my play to simple bullet points to scumread me for.

As I said, expect much better and detailed case now that an RC-Lynch is looking possible for today.

Did this ever happen?

I don't see it in Jar Jar's ISO

No - the mood changed when Rauth roleclaimed and said RC is town.

[Keyser Söze]

Did RC claim cop or a role with "cop" in it?

I saw his claim and nowhere did it say he claimed Cop. Unless he claimed Cop later and I haven't seen it yet

He claimed a cop x role on D1. Not "TOWN COP".

[Keyser Söze]

What Matt said - smelled like a policy lynch for me too.

I.e lynch the anti-town player

Didn't have the full support of the 'town core' to push over the line

[Keyser Söze]

Any other claims I should be aware of?

Rauth backup cop.

[Keyser Söze]

What did Rauth claim?

Backup cop

[Keyser Söze]

Sorry phoneposting. Keep seeing the same questions.

[Keyser Söze]

Read Lil Uzi Vert next Frogger, I'd be interested to hear what you think.

D2 will come down to TWO lynches. LUVs or JarJars. Wanna hear your thoughts before someone accidentally quick hammers

[Keyser Söze]

IMO, they're not in the same tier as RC and Rauth.

They are second tier, 'town leans'

Matt drawing that definitive line was concerning.

[Keyser Söze]

On phone, so keeping it simple.
Detail found in my ISO.

Current scum team theory:
Uzi, JarJar and Matt

Rauth town through claim
RC town through investigation

Sheep town through controlled protown play, would be hard to lynch.
vifam/you town through WIFOM, not going to vote unless GUILTY

Second Tier Town leans:
Akarin
Grendel
Nancy

[Keyser Söze]

No one has convinced me on scum-Sheep yet, so I'd be intrigued to hear your scum-case on him.

[Keyser Söze]

Matt on D1 voted Jar for a single reason that wasn't even that great. And then never pushed him again.

That's a pristine example of a D1 bus, because it doesn't mean anything then as the sole person voting him.

Notice how he's not pushing Jar now.

Yes the associations look eerily very clear.

[Keyser Söze]

No one has convinced me on scum-Sheep yet, so I'd be intrigued to hear your scum-case on him.

It's mostly VCA stuff

Were you going to post it now, or wait for a flip first?
Best get it down now than never mate.

[Keyser Söze]

I think Nancy is scum. Her reaction test story is garbage. She was certainly gonna let the lynch happen.

So then rather than have a town-confirmed RC at her throat, she makes up the story and strokes his ego a bit ("I totally knew you were so obv town bro") cause we all know he eats that shit up.

I will re-read her entrance into D2.
We have time.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser, why is WIFOM on Vifam stronger than any actual reads you have that aren't PR claims or cop clears? Weren't you like solving the entire game based on how perfect your reads were earlier?

I have a special relationship with WIFOM that some would consider "stupid" or "idiotic" - but it helps me with my reads.

Do you have a scum-case for any of my town-reads/leans? I'm always open to other people's theories.

[Keyser Söze]

Fro99er, you're scaring people off my scum-reads

[Keyser Söze]

Yeah, we don't need a 1v1 fight between Fro99er and JarJar.

In my eyes, JarJar, LUV and Matt have 1 day to find scum.

[Keyser Söze]

I didn't think you were reaction-testing with your entrance reads. I felt like you were genuinely town reading JarJar and sincerely scumreading RC.
Obviously I have miss-read your entrance if that was your intentions.
Was your read on Akarin and me all real though?

[Keyser Söze]

I will auto self vote tomorrow if JJD flips town

I'd prefer you to replace out then self vote x

[Keyser Söze]

Day 2 ends in 4 days.

We have time to talk to our scum-reads. We lost out on a lot of information on D1. We aren't making the same mistake here.

JarJar is already L-1 so I am in no hurry to hammer.

[Keyser Söze]

Given how consolidated we are as a whole on 3 to 4 players today I think we can afford to take a step back. The VC reflects this too.

I want to hear JarJar's new readslist.
Both Matt and LUV need to sell me on Sheep and Fro99er too.

[Keyser Söze]

TR on JJD mainly because his posts have mirrored my thought processes for most of the game. D2 start and the push on RC is Town through and through.

Was this a reaction test nancy?


What results did you get? (if already posted, please link)

[Keyser Söze]

How many more miss-lynches can we afford (presuming scum get a successful NK each night)?

[Keyser Söze]

{Fro99er, Keyser, RC}
{Akarin, LUV}
{}
{Sheep}
{Grendel, MBG}

Why did you leave out Rauth's name?
You thought he would/should be dead?

[Keyser Söze]

that ladies and gentlemen is what you call an obvious bus.

That's why I didn't want a "Fro99er vs JarJar 1v1" - I knew it would only cause suspicion (via WIFOM).

At the end of the D2 I was locked into a JarJar-LUV-Matt scum team theory. I'm going to take a step back from that for the moment because I felt the associations fit too easily. I'm going to look at my town leans/reads first (excluding RC and Rauth who are my constants).

Like Pine said, no toxic play ladies and gents. We can talk this through.

[Keyser Söze]

Day 1 VCA

I have never seen a 3-player scum team all push through a D1 miss-lynch on the same wagon (scum are more likely to want to be null-read or town-read). Has anyone else? Gerry wasn't even obv-scum.
Thus, 1 or 2 of the remaining scum were on a counter wagon or not voting.

Removing town/Rauth, that leaves a group of 3: Matt, Akarin, Sheep. At least 1 of these is guaranteed to be scum. Potentially 2 if only scum-JarJar was on gerry's wagon.

Matt, Akarin and Sheep should all agree with this (but I would obviously expect them to substitute my name for theirs if they scum-read me).

If I go back to the lynch wagon, if I remove town/RC/JarJar that leaves:
Grendel, Lil Uzi Vert, Nancy, frogger

As I stated earlier, I do not expect the 2 remaining scum to be within this list of 4 players. (Not impossible but unlikely). I only see a possibility of 1 scum in that list of 4.

Do Grendel, LUV, Nancy or Frogger strongly object to my conclusion?

[Keyser Söze]

Stop saying 'sacrifice you' Frogger, that will only fuel people to want to lynch you

[Keyser Söze]

I don't like frogger lining up my lynch after a matt-town flip but I will allow it as I am not a tier 1 t/read.

[Keyser Söze]

Stop saying 'sacrifice you' Frogger, that will only fuel people to want to lynch you

sacrificing yourself for the good of town is a noble and worthy thing. I am happy to do so.

I prefer us lynching someone we naturally scum read.
You presenting us this 1 for 1 trade is a logical fallacy. It can be used as both town or scum.
Let's study the evidence first.
I do not want to lynch you (right now), and I am reading your VCA.

[Keyser Söze]

Why can't we lynch MGB or Sheep D3?

Stop making this a 1v1

[Keyser Söze]

I have all the time in the world to evaluate everyone.
I am in no rush to lynch my scum-reads.
I want to scrutinise my town-reads first.

Through D1 VCA, I have already highlighted how through PoE at least of my t/reads can be scum (plus, ruled out potential scum-teams).

[Keyser Söze]

Side question:
At what stage during D2 did JarJar realise he was a dead man walking? Was it when Rauth t/cleared RC?

I want to figure out when his play went from trying to manipulate a miss-lynch, to protecting his teammates for after his lynch via WIFOM.

[Keyser Söze]

Agreed, I suspect 1 in each group or 2 in Sheep/Akarin/Matt.



Re-reading JarJar's ISO, he held Sheep as a t/read through-out D1 (2nd strongest t/read after me). JarJar is very conscious of the advanced scum tactic to t/read a scum partner (reverse WIFOM) so I will look at my t/read of Sheep next.

I would like to re-bump this conversation between Akarin and JarJar regarding Matt:

It doesn't really make sense that his first reaction to Gerrys flip is that RC was reaction testing. Like shouldn't he have considered that RC was scum that got caught fakeclaiming? Especially considering that he soon starting pushing RC-scum soon after.

RC scum still makes more sense. But Town RC/Town Matt makes no sense.

What does this even mean? You're scumreading RC, but if RC is town, Matt is definitely scum, even though you're townreading Matt? And you have a problem with Transcend suspecting scum Matt but town RC, but your argument here is basically an argument for scum Matt, town RC?

Why should Town RC imply scum Matt?

The statement from Matt is scummy regardless. I've already said that the statement could come from scum matt even if RC is scum as well. But it makes way more sense for scum matt to make it about town RC.

And as I said later, It's not impossible for for them both to be town. My statement was directed @ trans and how terrible it was for him to be townreading the both of them.

Now we know JarJar is scum and now believe that RC is town (via the presumption that Rauth is the backup cop), do you think this is good or bad news for Matt? (In regard his position on RC at the beginning on D2)

[Keyser Söze]

Re: advanced scum strategy to hard townread a scum teammate:

I would actually say that make Rauth very unlikely to be RCs partner. I feel like giving a scumbuddy a hard townread is advanced scum strategy which doesn't fit for Rauth. Noob-scum wants to distance/avoid teammates.

As a neutral I would agree me and Sheep fit this theory.

Thus, I think JarJar is experienced enough to bus one teammate, while reverse distancing the other teammate.

[Keyser Söze]

Re-reading Sheep's D2 ISO (in it he t/reads JarJar, s/reads Nancy and slight s/leans Matt). I can see why town-Sheep would be s/readin both Nancy and Matt so nothing to flag there.
I still cannot directly pin scum on Sheep with something tangible (I still need help there).
The fact JarJar and Sheep were t/reading each other (reverse distancing) isn't a strong enough reason for me to want to lynch Sheep today.

[Keyser Söze]

I'm 100% positive Uzi is town.

100%? You are in no position to state this.
Please confirm.

[Keyser Söze]

RC, do you believe Nancy's D2 s/read of you and her t/read of JarJar was a genuine reaction test? It nearly made you give in and quit the game.

(I share the same doubt as Sheep regarding this).

Moreover, is her lying about it NIA?

[Keyser Söze]

Only Rauth can call someone 100% town.
You t/clearing non-confirmed players and narrowing down the lynch pool only narrows our focus (anti-town).
Anyone is up for the lynch (including me) except for RC and Rauth.
Hard defending a player without an investigation just causes a distraction.

[Keyser Söze]

I'm catching up, now. Anyone want to go for the hattrick and just hammer somebody in the next half hour?

[Keyser Söze]

What if it's a Jar Jar, Matt, Frogger scumteam?

Would need alot of convincing on a Matt-Frogger team.
Frogger could do the double-bus, but the way he came into the thread with his dramatic 1v1's, we are too cynical to give him town points for lynching scum. I.e even if he pushed through lynches on his 2 teammates he'd still be up for a lynch.
No tactical gain = can't see the scum-motivation. Thus, I doubt this pairing right now.