OPEN 663: STACK THE DECK (GAME OVER)

[Dunnstral]

The problem is except explaining "I have read it before"

How do you ISO SuperHans *250*posts in 2 minutes?

Stop throwing shades.

It doesn't take that long

to skim through an ISO.

He insists that it's possible in 2 minutes.

ok... still, he says SKIM, not read. He's not pretending to have thoroughly analyzed

I'm not saying it's ideal for him to do that in itself, but why are you worked up about it? Do you think skimming is scummy, or do you think he can't skim an iso in 2 minutes (For me personally, 2 minutes wouldn't be enough time to think over things)

[Dunnstral]

Just realized I've been reading but not posting.
In retrospect I think MariaR did indeed crumb traitor. Too late at night to dig further but I can vote at least.
VOTE: Desperado

I'll go over this again for you guys

Just because someone is pushing for "being traitor" doesn't mean they actually believe it

I can confirm, that at that time, there wasn't actually a compelling reason to think desperado was the traitor, and I said as much (funny that nobody analyzed that.)
In that case, dave could be pushing a townie (in his eyes) - The Antihero lynch being the traitor is kind of irrelevant in all this

That's the first argument for him being town that others have presented

The second is that his tone is genuine (or something)

Which I have not been feeling at all, so my next step is to ask where his town is genuine and I want to take a look at it again



I am considering that it would be weird for scum dave to vote scum desperado there

[Dunnstral]

Regfan what are you seeing about dave that makes you think "this guy is towny on tone"

I know you've mentioned it a few times before, and I know you're considering pairings

[davesaz]

What hes seeing is that im thoroughly disgusted that im even a topic of discussion. This is town me. There is so much difference between this and any game ive been scum that you must be blind to not see it. Either drop the subject of me scum, or lynch me and probably lose.

[davesaz]

Second guessing is going to lose this for town even if we were right from the beginning about who scum are. We had 4 firm town, two likely scum, and two question marks. Now we have as many as 6 question marks because we've screwed around so long that the likely scum are talking themselves back into the town.

[Superhans]

What hes seeing is that im thoroughly disgusted that im even a topic of discussion. This is town me. There is so much difference between this and any game ive been scum that you must be blind to not see it. Either drop the subject of me scum, or lynch me and probably lose.

Dude u saying you're town doesn't make you town. Also your indignation is a huge turn off.

Try and solve the game genuinely if you don't want to be lynched.

[Superhans]

I mean easy in the sense of obvious, not in the sense of no resistance.

Why is ThinkBig 'obvious', I'm finding reading TB far from obvious anything.

[Superhans]

Davesaz ansser my question

[Superhans]

Also Davesaz how would you feel with lynching Desperado? Happy? Sad?

[Regfan]

@Desperado RE; Post 2244 I agree we seem to be reading the game very differently. I think scum are less likely to attempt to buss D1 in this setup specifically with 2 unknown PR's, the fact that his vote wasn't on Dunn for long though makes it a fairly weak point and you'd notice I still leave TB+Dunn as a possible world here. I've read your reasoning for town reading Dunn inside Post 2173 and I think it's very shallow; don't think his response to RQS is alignment indicative whatsoever and I think his treatment of TB has been rather suspect rather than a town-tell, I can see it as him attempting to WK a town player to look good upon the flip and also defend a partner in hopes of saving them. I think the fact that he's shown no reassessment of TB regardless of what's provided on him is a huge issue. I think his response to you re; "him not slipping" means nothing; it was never a slip therefore he can genuinely talk about it not being a slip regardless of alignment.

[Regfan]

@Dave - I agree a flip will help but don't particularly think rushing a TB lynch here is the right move. I'm trying to work with you here, I think you're town, you understand this right? You also understand I die tonight, right? So at least try and work back with me; who would TB be scum with from your perspective?

@Dunn - RE: Post 2251, I agree that his 'traitor' section isn't a big town tell, I think it's a big indication he's not scum with Desperado though. My reasoning behind town reading him is largely attitude and tone, I admit to this. It's the "I don't give a fuck I'm town" type attitude that I've seen in 5+ of his town games that I took a quick skim through, it's not something I've particuarly seen from him as scum. I think specifically his attitude in Post 1125, Post 1424, Post 1889 and Post 2253 are all posts that make sense from a town mindset from him and I'd struggle to see him actually make posts like that as mafia; I think he genuinely believes that his town v scum meta is miles apart and I don't think he brings that up as mafia.

[Regfan]

Also Nydus I need you here.

[nydushermain]

Hi sorry D: I'm here. What do you need friend?

[Regfan]

Vote; Dunnstral

Will elaborate on this vote later but most of the reasoning has already been presented in the last ~3-4 pages.

Hi sorry D: I'm here. What do you need friend?

Read the last few pages if you haven't already, focus specifically on the interactions between Realeo/Me/Dunnstral and let me know what you think. I'm growing more and more sure that the remaining scum team is something like Dunn-TB or Dunn-Desperado.

[nydushermain]

I'm having a hard time scum reading realeo at all so don't count on me if you think he's even remotely scummy, ever. I'll read during the night phases and I've been keeping up with the thread, just not posting. I was thinking dunn/desp as well and I'm okay with voting either, but I don't think I want to vote TB unless it's a final 3 scenario.

[nydushermain]

The thing that realeo mentioned about TB potatoing in this thread, but being hyper active in another is pretty interesting though. Haven't actually read his activity in the other thread so if you could enlighten me in terms of "how active" he's being by comparison, that would be great.

[Regfan]

Oh I don't have a scum read on Realeo, he's my strongest town read by a long shot. I merely want you to read Dunns interactions with both of us.

[Regfan]

TB's been very active around the site in comparison to this thread, it's a rather big concern and I could see a world where it's TB+Dunn given it, Dunn never reassessing, commenting on or even acknowledging any of this despite being well aware of the activity difference as well as TB's problematic posting throughout this day phase is something I struggle to see coming from a town mindset. I similarly don't see Dunnstral actually attempting to gamesolve here much at all, he's far too happy to push on Dave (And do so

"confidently"

) without providing a whole lot behind his push while ignoring the rest of the playerlist, it's just scum play.

[ThinkBig]

VOTE: Dunnestral

I know I've been putting this game off and I do apologize. I've been extremely busy and notice that my activity in games seems to go down when I'm widely scum read/close to being lynched. It is something I need to work on.

I can definitely see a Desperado/Dunnestral team. I will elaborate this more when I get to my laptop. There are a few posts that feels like he is outright trying to buddy me. He says he has a town read on me, but can never actually explain

why

he town reads me.

I'll be happy lynching either desperado or dunnestral today.

[davesaz]

I don't normally think in terms of teams. I find it leads me to rule out good scum with few or more obvious teammates prematurely while incorrectly pairing town with scum or each other.

Dunnstral's adamant refusal to back down on calling me scummy without being able to specifically point to specifics causing the read is a big red flag, but unfortunately I know he does this as town.
Superhans overreliance on asking other people their reads is also a red flag.
I would not want either of them in LYLO.

[Regfan]

We're going to need a lot more from you then that TB and really hoping the "When I get to the laptop" isn't another postponement of getting to this game for 24+ hours or anything. What's your reads on other players inside the game at the moment (With reasoning attached) and do you scum read Desperado based on his play or solely via linking him with Dunnstral? Some original content from you is appreciated.

[Regfan]

I don't normally think in terms of teams. I find it leads me to rule out good scum with few or more obvious teammates prematurely while incorrectly pairing town with scum or each other.

That's fair. What I'm moreso trying to get at is that if you remove your strong town reads I want to see how many players

might

be left because I think you'd agree that Desperado-ThingBig are never a scum team so that's one person that'd be removed instantly and fairly safely.

Dunnstral's adamant refusal to back down on calling me scummy without being able to specifically point to specifics causing the read is a big red flag, but unfortunately I know he does this as town.
Superhans overreliance on asking other people their reads is also a red flag.
I would not want either of them in LYLO.

What do you make of Dunnstrals reads on players that don't involve you though? And do you think him overly focusing on you to the point where he was happy not looking at other players at all is more likely to come from him as scum or town? He's effectively used his read on you to not look into Desperado/Hans much an still hasn't got around to commenting on TB at all really. What specifically about "asking others for reads" do you think is scummy from Hans? I do it a lot as town and find that it's a good way to get content into the thread from others as well as understand their thought process.

[nydushermain]

I would lynch dunnstral, and I'd lynch desperado, those are the two people I think are the scummiest. I don't actually think what dunnstral did in the past 4ish pages was that scummy. Maybe I don't know what to look for but it seems NAI other than one post where I just didn't like how it read.

[nydushermain]

You're saying vote dunstraal because you have a team of dunn + thinkbig and dunn + desperado correct?

[Regfan]

I'm voting him because he's my strongest scum read at the moment and by some distance too; if you take a look through his play this day phase there's not really a genuine town thought process or attempt to solve the game really shown, his push on Dave lacks solid foundation and looks more like an attempt to push a weaker player, him being content doing that while ignoring what's happened re; TB & putting Hans/Desperado to the side is a big problem. Him going from agreeing with me that Hans dumbtell makes him much more likely town to wanting him in the suspect pool (In fact adding him to his most likely scum team) doesn't come across as town. The fact that he's also inside 2 of my 3 remaining likely scum teams is just a bonus on top of that, technically TB is also inside 2 as well though.