OPEN 663: STACK THE DECK (GAME OVER)

[Realeo]

His play today in regards to Kop makes sense as scum attempting to grab some sort of town credit for defending Kop when the defence wasn't based on a 'town-read' the entire point as that was only mentioned once pre-hammer from him

Didn't he mention that he only vote Kop as a compromise? I think it would be scummier if Desperado compromises at Kop, Kop claims role blocker, and still vote at him when there is a chance to advocate not to--because what breaks the compromisation wall?

[Superhans]

I like the town read Desperado made of Dunnstral, some very agreeable points. I didn't like the Davesaz's last comment saying that me asking that question to Desperado was scummy. Think your logic to scum read me is fairly contrived and I want you to know that I think you're most likely scum.

@ThinkBig

Once I get back home from synagogue, I'll update my reads.

Don't say things like this if you don't actually end up doing so.
Why is Dunnstral scum? Who could be his partner?

[Regfan]

I'll respond to Desperados wall about his Dunn town read shortly but this is me acknowledging and appreciating it existing.

Anyway from where I was earlier I feel fairly good about Realeo, Nydus and SuperHans all being town and have gone into my reasoning behind town reading all of them in fairly big detail, if anyone strongly disagrees with them being town they should let me know what about my town read reasoning they disagree with and why.

That means for now I'm working forward with the assumption that both scum are inside ThingBig, Dave, Dunnstral and Desperado.

With them there's 6 potential scum teams to begin with;

1. ThingBig - Dave
2. ThingBig - Dunnstral
3. ThingBig - Desperado
4. Dave - Dunnstral
5. Dave - Desperado
6. Dunnstral - Desperado

I've only gone through Dave in detail so far (Will be going through all four of them though), here's what I gleaned from it;

I think Daves Post 144 points against him being scum with Dunnstral. His vote on Desperado and belief that he was the traitor D1 Post 540 and Post 645 heavily points against the two of them being a scum team. With mafia knowing there's two unclaimed power roles at the time they couldn't afford to buss at given existence of Tracker/Roleblockers would put them in a really bad position, I also think pushing a mafia partner with the case of "They're the traitor" is a really unlikely angle scum would take. I actually find his response towards SH in Post 795 to come across as town but do dislike his vote on ThingBig in Post 861 and makes sense as making sure he's voting a partner to get some of the town cred in the case that ThingBig is scum. I think his Post 942 and Post 1061 also point against him being mafia with Desperado. I found his response towards me replacing in to come across as fairly town in Post 1125 and Post 1136 and find Post 1424 as a fairly decent town tell; I think it's a post he'd have difficulty actually making as scum. I like the way he's wanting to approach the game inside Post 1843 and Post 1857. I think his interaction with Dunnstral in Post 1853 and Post 1889 points heavily against them being partners (particularly the latter post), the personal attack via 'misreading' is something I really don't see as scum/scum.

So overall I actually lean towards Dave being town at the moment, happy to rule out Dave-Dunn & Dave-Desperado worlds from existing. TB-Dave is possible.

So now at;

1. ThingBig - Dave - Daves vote on TB D2 makes some sense as making sure to get on the wagon of a partner about to be lynched, outside of that there's very little interaction between the two of them on Daves end and they do make some sense being partners.
2. ThingBig - Dunnstral
3. ThingBig - Desperado

4. Dave - Dunnstral
5. Dave - Desperado

6. Dunnstral - Desperado

Will take a short break and then get though one of the three remaining players. Would love others input as well.

[Realeo]

His vote on Desperado and belief that he was the traitor D1 Post 540 and Post 645 heavily points against the two of them being a scum team. With mafia knowing there's two unclaimed power roles at the time they couldn't afford to buss at given existence of Tracker/Roleblockers would put them in a really bad position, I also think pushing a mafia partner with the case of "They're the traitor" is a really unlikely angle scum would take.

I reject that analysis. That post is made 12 hours before deadline. There is no pressure to vote Desperado.

I like the way he's wanting to approach the game inside Post 1843 and Post 1857.

I lek it is different to I townread him, I suppose?

I think his interaction with Dunnstral in Post 1853 and Post 1889 points heavily against them being partners (particularly the latter post), the personal attack via 'misreading' is something I really don't see as scum/scum.

That's funny because I just used personal attack to seperate my self in a recent scum game.

If it's Dunn/Dave is usually a hint of Dave saying "Please stop bussing me or at least came up with a better reasoning to bus me. Your white flag gambit sucks." Also, let us be honest. Dunn scumread Dave out of nowhere. If Dunn used white flag gambit, it sucks.

I'm starting to think that Dave+TB is the wrong combination.

[Realeo]

ThingBig - Dave

ThingBig - Dunnstral

ThingBig - Desperado

Dave - Dunnstral
Dave - Desperado
Dunnstral - Desperado

methink

[Regfan]

@Realeo - Can you run me through what's made you rule out ThingBig-Dave, would love to be able to do that myself but nothing inside their interaction from Daves end points against them being a potential scum team here. Please don't respond with anything like "It'd be too obvious".

I reject that analysis. That post is made 12 hours before deadline. There is no pressure to vote Desperado.

The first post was made with 3 days to go until the deadline, that's hardly "No pressure". The second was made closer to the deadline, yes but it merely restating his preference. Scum know there's 3 PR's inside the game, they can't exactly afford to risk bussing D1 and bussing via the means of "I think X is traitor" is a very weird avenue for scum to take. I'm still comfortable ruling out Deperado-Dave here.

I lek it is different to I townread him, I suppose?

I find it a town motivated way to approach the game, it's not particularly difficult to fake as scum but it does weakly point towards town.

If it's Dunn/Dave is usually a hint of Dave saying "Please stop bussing me or at least came up with a better reasoning to bus me. Your white flag gambit sucks." Also, let us be honest. Dunn scumread Dave out of nowhere. If Dunn used white flag gambit, it sucks.

I know you yourself may have used person attacks as a means of distancing recently but I think you'll be the first to admit you're not a particularly normal scum player; the fact that you faked being a VI as scum is testament to that. I don't attribute that level of manipulation to Daves gameplay and I think the manner the comment and interaction came across points very heavily against Dave-Dunn as does the only posts I linked about them.

[Realeo]

Hey buddy who I can't talk to in PT because we don't have daytalk!

This is casting shades. I do this in most of my games. It's NAI for me.

See here, here, and here. As a rule, I try to welcome replacements (though I don't always).

Also, with three town PRs, the scum team most likely chose day chat over the other PRs.

OK, back to work. I'll finish responding later.

Also, I don't understand why you don't cross TB-Desperado.

[Realeo]

I don't attribute that level of manipulation to Daves gameplay

Oh God. The last someone use the "compotence logic", we lynched a roleblocker

Spoiler:

It should be obvious why I spell it compotence instead of compatence.

[Regfan]

Patience young grasshoper, I've only typed up my thoughts on Dave so far. I'm currently working through another post on them.

Also amusingly enough neither of your spellings inside your spoiler are correct.

[Realeo]

Also amusingly enough neither of your spellings inside your spoiler are correct.

Which is part of the joak.

[Regfan]

Okay finished going through Desperado, I've stated my reads on his slot previously in this day so I'm mostly going to be looking at interactions here.

Will say that I did like the majority of his D1 play again on a reread particularly his analysis on Gamma and AH inside Post 353. I find his comment directed towards Dunn inside Post 389 to be phrased differently with how he interacts with most other players there, does make sense as scum trying to directly interact with a partner though. Still liked his prodding of people near the end of D1 inside Post 514 but it's still a very weak town tell. His switch from AH -> TB at the end of D1 when there was a very reasonable chance that TB was going to get lynched inside Post 658 and Post 691 points very heavily against them being partners. Him opening D2 up continuing to push on TB inside Post 776 when the AH flip gives him an avenue to stop doing that also makes very little sense to do if they're partners and there's unclaimed PR's out there. For the same reason I find his case and push on TB inside Post 858 and Post 859 to rule out that potential scum team. His first stated read on Dunnstral in the entire game comes in Post 1226 and it's when I questioned him why he chose to vote Kop and it was a town read on Dunn based on vague reasoning at the time. Disliked his accusation that Dunn may have slipped in Post 1400 especially given it wasn't met with a vote from him, never really came across like he actually believed it himself and does make some sense a scum theatre/attempt to distance, he restates his strong town read on Dunn inside Post 2011.

So I think Desp-TB is pretty much never a scum team and willing to rule it out and think Desp-Dunn makes some sense as a scum team from Desps side.

So now at;

1. ThingBig - Dave - Daves vote on TB D2 makes some sense as making sure to get on the wagon of a partner about to be lynched, outside of that there's very little interaction between the two of them on Daves end and they do make some sense being partners.

2. ThingBig - Dunnstral

3. ThingBig - Desperado

4. Dunnstral - Desperado - Desperados interactions with Dunn throughout the game have been limited and do come across somewhat differently in comparison to other players, the town read on Dunn was never mentioned throughout his entire ISO nor was it really hinted at until I questioned him about his vote placement on Kop over others; this does make some sense as partners not wanting to be hard linked to him early on and then stating a town read to explain not voting him when pressured on it. The "slip" section similarly makes sense as scum theater.

[Regfan]

Funny joka! Now answr dis plox?

@Realeo - Can you run me through what's made you rule out ThingBig-Dave, would love to be able to do that myself but nothing inside their interaction from Daves end points against them being a potential scum team here. Please don't respond with anything like "It'd be too obvious".

Probably going to leave the rest of the deep interaction reading for tomorrow since it's getting somewhat late here but happy to discuss some reads and thoughts for the next ~30 minutes or so if you're going to be around Realeo. Alternatively we could just both vote Nydus and call him a loser, either works.

[Realeo]

Hey buddy who I can't talk to in PT because we don't have daytalk!

This is casting shades. I do this in most of my games. It's NAI for me.

See here, here, and here. As a rule, I try to welcome replacements (though I don't always).

Also, with three town PRs, the scum team most likely chose day chat over the other PRs.

OK, back to work. I'll finish responding later.

If you remember, after I expose "How the fuck you iso in 2 minutes," he went ultra defensive and call almost everything shade throwing. At this point, if we can assume that if ThinkBig is scum, he demonstrated a classic scum play of "proof everyone is stupid."

Given the condition of the game play, I don't reckon ThinkBig would go so far to "Ah.. I would bus my partner," because there is no utility for bussing. He 'shade throw' too often that bussing would be ineffective.

[nydushermain]

I agree with your analysis on dunn+desp,
@reg,
and I agree with you about me. Should I self vote?

I haven't really read deeply into dave's iso as of late but I'll take a look at your case on him and others on the bus. I'm kinda just waiting to sheep you but it seems like we're in the same spot anyways so all is good.
I'm not as confident on the superhans town read as you are btw, but I think there's a good chance dunns/desp ends the game so I don't really care too much on that read.

[ThinkBig]

No. No one should self vote.

Be home in about two hours. Should respond more then

[davesaz]

Pressed for time, I have a bug to squash.
I think I'm satisfied that ThinkBig is no longer "too obvious a choice". I'm very happy with the amount of analysis, I agree with most of it, and I think that's our lynch. Because of that bug I don't have time right now to add anything new.

LA for 24-36 hours

[nydushermain]

Pressed for time, I have a bug to squash.
I think I'm satisfied that ThinkBig is no longer "too obvious a choice". I'm very happy with the amount of analysis, I agree with most of it, and I think that's our lynch. Because of that bug I don't have time right now to add anything new.

LA for 24-36 hours

My reading comprehension turned to mush when I read this. Can you rephrase "I'm very happy with .... I think that's our lynch" again before you leave?

[nydushermain]

No. No one should self vote.

Be home in about two hours. Should respond more then

I was trolling reg.

[Superhans]

ThingBig - Dave

ThingBig - Dunnstral

ThingBig - Desperado

Dave - Dunnstral
Dave - Desperado
Dunnstral - Desperado

methink

I endorse this product (as you'd put it.)
Not so sure about the Dunnstral theories, haven't seen anything particularly scummy his ISO.

[Dunnstral]

Regfan I'm not sure I buy into that pairing thing, specifically it looks like if I'm town thinkbig should be lock scum, and so if he's not I know the whole thing is wrong

[Superhans]

Also y is ThinkBig Dave tean an impossibility?

[Superhans]

No. No one should self vote.

Be home in about two hours. Should respond more then

Dude u make more posts saying that you

will

post than actual legitimate posts.

[Superhans]

DAY 3 VC 002

ThinkBig ( 2 ) -

(Desperado, Realeo)

davesaz ( 1 ) -

(Dunnstral)

Desperado ( 1 ) -

(Superhans)

Not Voting ( 4 ) -

(davesaz, ThinkBig, Regfan, nydushermain)

Five to lynch.
(expired on 2017-02-04 21:45:02) remain until deadline.

Half the playerbase haven't commited themselves to voting. Now is the time people (although make sure to check and double check if u may be L2/1

[Regfan]

@Reaelo RE; Post 2187 so it's based on interactions from TB's end then, in that case I'll see it when I go through his ISO.

@Nydus - Sure, selfvote but the loser statement when doing so is mandatory. Looking forward to you getting around to some of your own analysis, think we need to work together to solve this. What's your hestiation re; SH?

@Dave - If you think TB is scum who do you think makes sense as a partner?

Regfan I'm not sure I buy into that pairing thing, specifically it looks like if I'm town thinkbig should be lock scum, and so if he's not I know the whole thing is wrong

Tell me which pairing you think I've ruled out incorrectly then or tell me which town read that I haven't included in the pairing you think is wrong. Just stating "I'm not sure I buy it because it makes me possible scum" is super vague and actually pretty scummy.

[Dunnstral]

Tell me which pairing you think I've ruled out incorrectly then or tell me which town read that I haven't included in the pairing you think is wrong. Just stating "I'm not sure I buy it because it makes me possible scum" is super vague and actually pretty scummy.

From the start you've been wrong when you only put in 6 pairings

Does Superhans-TB makes sense to you?

What about Superhans-Dave

Which might be what I'm leaning towards right now