OPEN 663: STACK THE DECK (GAME OVER)

[Realeo]

But why he would get himself self lynched? To give TB town cred?

I mean, your explanation explains why TB suddenly change mood at L-2, but the end goal?

[Realeo]

*why AH suddenly change mood at L-2

[Realeo]

You know what, we are scumreading Daveaz. Let's forget TB and talk about Daveas earlier.


Let me bring some iso.

[Realeo]

He's decent.

[Realeo]

And his case was bad because?

I did't think it was bad, actually

It's shallow.

The description that you apply to AH's read can be applied to yours as well?

[Realeo]

Wow. I can pull nothing from daveaz.

[Realeo]

Someone need to explain why it's Kop.

[Realeo]

Didn't SuperHans been consistent on TB @ D1?

[Realeo]

DAY 2 VC 002

Gamma Emerald ( 4 ) -

(Kop, Realeo, Superhans, Dunnstral)

ThinkBig ( 4 ) -

(Desperado, Gamma Emerald, Alisae, davesaz)

Realeo ( 1 ) -

(algebra)

Not Voting ( 1 ) -

(ThinkBig)

Six to lynch.
(expired on 2017-01-21 05:24:02) remain until deadline.

Ah, Superhans voted GE. I need to iso that.

[Realeo]

@Regfan: SuperHans do seems opportunistic at Gamma wagon? You want to play more attention at that.

[Realeo]

^

I fucked up that one. Proceed.

[Realeo]

However, when voting Gamma, I wasn't saying that I was voting Gamma BECAUSE of the death of SSBM, I was saying that I was continuing her push onto Gamma, not accusing Gamma of NKing her.

If you can re-elaborate it more, I feel better @ you.

[Realeo]

No. It was ssbm kyouko

[Realeo]

No. It was ssbm kyouko

oh. is that why you killed him?

I will roll a emotidice. This dice will dictate the emoticon that you would receive.

1 -
2 -
3 -
4 -
5 -
6 -

Original Roll String: 1d6

1 6-Sided Dice: (6) = 6

[Realeo]

Now that you point that out, that is a confuzion. I checked his iso and he didn't pursue Desperado at all?

[Realeo]

Intent to hammer

Going back through the game and through kop's ISO, he has shown little attempt to solve the game give reads. His parked vote on Gamma, even after Gamma claimed Goon Cop, worries me the most. IIRC, he parked his vote on Gamma on D1 for almost 100 posts until making a naked vote on antihuman after it was clear that AH would be the lynch.

YOUR
READ
LIST

I have adapt to unfulfilled promise. But unfulfilled promise + swangy hammer? Hello? No.

[Realeo]

Why I was scum back early?

[Realeo]

VOTE: ThinkBig

[Realeo]

I don't understand how me + Alisae jump from scummies 3 into safe zone.

I just don't get it. Where did that comes from.

[Realeo]

During that interval, I made that town read post. What did Alisae do?

[Realeo]

I also don't understand your progresss of though.

Alisae

- Strong town lean. I like his analysis so far and he seems to be making a genuine attempt to scum hunt and solve the game.

He's top town

OMGAWD YEAH HE DIIIIIID. REALEO NEVER UNVOTED!

And I will when I get back home.

Duuuuuuuude. You just hammered.

For now

VOTE: Alisae

I feel like 991 and 993 were contrived.

Then bottom 3...

Then weak town read.

(your read list)

Then null

alisae'a slot is still null.

What is happening?

[Realeo]

I am aware of emotional read, but that Alisae top solving -> Alies scumread for contrived is confusing. If you townread Alisae in the beginning for game solving, why his "reaction test" is not part of his beginning game solving?

[Realeo]

@Alisae thoughts on Kop?

And what do you think of what Realeo is saying here?

Alisae replaced out.

[Realeo]

Realeo - TB did state his reads and where he was at before stating intent to hammer, I'd like reasoning behind some of his reads but he's stated he's willing to get to those when he's at a computer next which is reasonable.

Stop defending him. Your entire case on TB is meta case.

If he's town, then he would defend himself.

I think this question is the

root of my concern

. Thank you for your concern, but for this

potentially final

question, I'd like you to go away.

[Realeo]

I'd like reasoning behind some of his reads but he's stated he's willing to get to those when he's at a computer next which is reasonable.

Of course you like it! It's all generic argument.

He's pointing out that Kop is inactive,

which what we have been talking for the last pages and the argument you have been pressing.

The problem is, told you that I accused him for plagiarising arguments--

making appeal to majority (or appeal to IC) arguments.

Your entire argument of "I like his reason" is the core problem of why I scumread him. It doesn't fly for me.

I need to check his logic on specific argument. His argument on Alisae is a specific, non appealing majority argument.

That's how I know if he's being sincere.

[Realeo]

If I figured out that there is genuine scumhunting on Alisae argument, I can be more easiely convinced that he is agreeing on the majority is simply a coincendental--wisdom of the crowd.

[Realeo]

@Kop:

How inactive are you?

[Realeo]

@People @ Kop wagon

(except Desperado) I can relate--but do not necessarily--concur that Kop can be scummy.

but why Kop is scummier than Daveaz?

The thing is I found it funny that Kop wagon

builds quicker

, but Daveaz is a

long-timer

(almost) unanimously scum-lean in this game. Not scumread, scum lean. He was not townread and get some nudges here and there.

I expect that since Daveaz a longer-term scum lean for this game, in the inner self of the people, players would want to lynch Daveaz because second scum after TB.

But Daveaz wagon didn't took of.

But when regfan talked Kop, suddenly people move to Kop?

I am willing to consider
town:TB
town:Kop
mafia:Daveaz
mafia:SH

...due to the speed of the wagon.

[Realeo]

Ah. You mean my sudden vote? He wasn't near at L-1 so I just vote him back.

I guess internet doesn't convey every emotion perfectly.

[Realeo]

My brain is not an average brain so I would not be able to make an objective call.

Is it normal for a human brain to still remember/forget something from 1 year ago?

[Realeo]

Stop throwing shades

Notice me, Senpai!

[Realeo]

Before we proceed, is it just me or assuming Kop is scum~there are 4 PRs?

[Realeo]

~there are at least 3 PRs?

[Realeo]

If Kop is scum it's possible we only have 2 PRs

We would talk about this after the mass-claiming.

[Realeo]

Wait for Alisae or wut?

[Realeo]

I'm VT.

[Realeo]

Davesaz - Town
Genuinely attempting to solve the game

<--- agreed

This always makes me worried.

NOT

because Antihuman agreed at Davesaz town, but WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH ALISAE'S MIND?

[Realeo]

I mean, the context is the last 10 pages, which is page 11 ~ page 20.

But I don't remember that at all?

[Realeo]

He did. The question is did he notice the traitor crumb, right?

[Realeo]

I am somewhat confindent that Alisae is Power Role.

[Realeo]

I would like to take a short V/LA, please

24 hours.

Not in optimal condition of brain to play it. Making too many logical mistake.

[Realeo]

I mean, I have confbias so I need to wind out my brain.

But some details about ThinkBig is town can't be filled despite best effort.

[Realeo]

So I just take a quick walk and I realized 2 problems.

• According to you regfan, TB is VI because he is weak. The question would be,
  If town!TB is a weakplayer, than what would scum!TB be?
  Einstein? A weak player as well, right?
  
• SuperHans pointed this. Regfan said that AH started a wagon from GE to TB only a subversion. Merely a Traitor v Town. If that's the case
  Why AH didn't push TB until final blood?
  Why say "lynch me I flip town" at
  L-2
  ?
  an unnecessary move that he know he would flip traitor

The more I think it, occam razor wise, Alisae's case makes more sense.

The moment TB voted him, he went to self-destructive.

It's like AH want to remove any guilty assosiation.

I think Alisae case of AH inviting lynch to himself makes perfect sense.

conf!bias, possibly.

This entire push that a traitor is more likely to replace into a game and hard push a partner in an attempt to get themselves lynched D1 to make their partner look better is a real stretch and would be

very suboptimal traitor play.

however.

1 ] I just can't ignore AntiHuman's attitude.

2 ] Since it's suboptimal play, wouldn't it make excellent gambit,

especially this is his first game as an alt with no meta knowledge

? regfan, you knew who he is, but only after he's dead you sub in

Personally

1] I have played a game where I bus someone from get go to remove any trace.

2] The VI gambit that I mentioned early, was first played in my Newbies game in mafiascum.net because "no meta" background

[Realeo]

I swear, I tried my best to townread TB. However, it's like those Sherlock moment where "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

[Realeo]

You didn't want an "Inactive Child", well you got an active one, one that's

more experienced than you and one that's telling you TB is town

and not the focus needs to move elsewhere.

Let me say this:

The last time someone did this

• He was a SE in my Newbies game. Using his SEness to dominate the exchange.
  
• He mocked me. Called me "WOTCed in 3 months"
  
• Also being hyper-confindent like you.
  
• Pushed on town and the scum he is townread buddy him
  
• Took 9 pages of exchange to actually convince to lynch the right guy

Regardless of ThinkBig's actual alignment

, please don't do that. People with such attitude is actively deterring new players from joining this game.

Such attitude should only stay in EpicMafia.com tournament lobby, where there is no new player.

#LynchTheNoavi

[Realeo]

Or Team Mafia 2017.

[Realeo]

I went over the Desperado/SuperHans interaction from a few pages back and didn't like it on SuperHans end at all, found that his stance in that argument didn't match his play inside the game.

SuperHans is a new player so I reminded you before you went interrogate him.

[Realeo]

@Kop

If you are nervous of Gamma's wagon, why you don't role block him?

[Realeo]

Hold on a second. Why is it not town consistent if Kop didn't roleblock Gamma? According to TB and regfan, we called it didn't consistent because he changed from Kyouko -> Gamma?

But from town!Kop's mind, when he roleblocked kyouko, kyouko is still alive. It's a double standard to expect Kop would vote for Kyouko despite he's dead, right?

Let me rephrase it: regfan said that there's inconsistency on how he thinks. That is true assuming that Kop thinks GE > Kyouko.

But can't we assume that Kop thinks Kyouko > GE, which makes more sense?

[Realeo]

Another scum point for TB for repeating what regfan previously said.

[Realeo]

I suspected Gamma, but then when I seen kyouko positioning himself with regards to the AH wagon and totally misunderstanding the whole traitor, I felt that with AH flipping traitor, kyouko knew that he was the traitor.

Which post does this happen?

[Realeo]

To be specific, kyouko positioning himself.

[Realeo]

VOTE: Kop

I'm off work an hour and a half before deadline btw if it has to be AH, his wagon is certainly going up and down a lot here

You mean this one?

[Realeo]

@Realo do you still believe this?

I still believe this.

But the initial assumption is that TB is town.

I removed that in my current calculation.

[Realeo]

Is he genuinely confused?

mafia traitor is bulletproof btw so they wouldn't even die

I didn't realise it's BP until I looked at the setup specs. It's one shot though, but obviously that doesn't mean anything, just means scum won't shoot that slot again.

Bodyguard is close enough to doctor that that's what I'd take it as, by the way

I agree, but I don't see any point crumbing it. It would be plain stupid for someone to be brazen enough to stand up and shout hey I'm a cop, or I'm a doctor/bodyguard.

And if he is stupid enough to do it, then well I'd not be lynching him based on that, the game will dictate what will happen if there was any truth in it.

Which I don't believe there is.

I cannot tell if it is a genuine train wreck.

I keep asking how "he missed traitor crumb" but it seemed he didn't miss it, he mistaken it with "Mafia PR CC crumb?"

[Realeo]

Good point!

[Realeo]

@Does the clock stops if Alisae replacement doesn't come in until deadline?

[Realeo]

Let's finish the clarification at ThinkBig's case at Alisae and lynch Kop.

[Realeo]

Yo, TB. Alisae and Desperado.

Pedit: My pleasure

[Realeo]

Oh no. I was talking about TB. TB had an outsanding explanation about his town/null/scum read at Alisae.

[Realeo]

He only explained his current read at Alisae due to waiting replacement. I'm still awaiting explanation about the previous read.

[Realeo]

TB you must have had something you read on Alisea town prior Nydus's replace in to have them as null overall; what was it for you?

492 came across as genuine, 496 also came across as a genuine town dumbtell (unlike Kop's).

I also like what I have heard from nydush and believe he is probably town, for the reasons I have mentioned.

Uh... No?

Your reasoning for townread Alisae according to your readlist is genuine game solving, not genuine town dumbtell.

[Realeo]

To be more precise, elaborate how a "fake reaction test" destroys everything in the past.

[Realeo]

And how does a read list containing

Kop - Town
Genuinely evaluating game

Is genuine game solving?

[Realeo]

1) People need to get in here and post their thoughts/analysis of the mass-claim results,

Is there anything to analyse? It went, uneventful.

[Realeo]

Can I just sheep you this game? I replaced into a game too big for me :<

L.A.Z.Y.S.C.U.M

[Realeo]

@Realeo - Thoughts on scum taking 1 thing only v 0? If you had to take a punt at the exact scum team right now who is it?

I have been messing with non-TB possibility and I can accept Dunn-davesaz

With TB, I am still satisfied with TB-Kop. With TB townreading Alisae for "gamesolving" which includes Alisae townreading Kop for "gamesolving", I'm marking "scum!TB townreading town!Alisae for townreading scum!Kop"

[Realeo]

My strongest read is on realeo. I think he's pretty town even ignoring the claim on him. I'm kind of liking hans in terms of content but dislike his aggression but that could just be a personality clash thing.

Agree

As an individual, I kinda scumread SH, but I cannot find a good assosiation.

[Realeo]

P.S. I never actually intended to hammer today, just wanted gamma to give reads at that moment but he's not... here?

[Realeo]

P.S. I never actually intended to hammer today, just wanted gamma to give reads at that moment but he's not... here?

To be fair, I feel "never actually intended to hammer" not genuine. When I see this post, I went..

[Realeo]

I don't think TB ignoring it has anything to do with his alignment because if he's scum, he doesn't know AH is traitor. If anything,

I think scum would fight back because they'd be annoyed.

Actually yeah, if what you're saying is true, TB is probably townier but I should still read it myself.

Is that even AI?

[Realeo]

my vote on Gamma wasn't ever because he was SSBM's target at one point. I literally just say that I'm carrying out her wishes, not citing it at all being a reason.

My problem would be why keep the vote until L-2. If Gamma vote is some mini D-2 RVS, I can relate. It seems reckless to me.

[Realeo]

What is (gap)?

And why I am getting no response?

[Realeo]

Final reads for the day

Town (S->W)

: Realeo, Nydus, (gap) Dunnstrsal, Dave

Null

: Gamma, Dave

Null scum

: Kop

Scum (S->W)

: Desperado, Superhans

Gamma will get resolved tonight. If Gamma is actually the goon cop, then Gamma will be dead tonight. I am confident there is scum inside Superhans/Desperado with Superhans slightly more likely to be scum than Desperado.

I'm fine with ending the day phase. It has been almost 3 days and Kop still hasn't came back and answered our questions and responded to our arguments.

Yo. Alisae. Continue the story.

[Realeo]

Yo. Alisae. Continue the story.

[Realeo]

What is (gap)?

The (gap) is basically to show that one town read is stronger than the other.

You are

acutely

aware that learning from THAT advice thread, ignoring people to respond to scumreading is effective for town/scum.

But let me tell you if you pulled the ignoring play, I can flip the table in a grand way for people who ignore me and everytime I pulled such play, he got lynched.

So please help me. I have a conf bias to solve. Win/Win solution.

[Realeo]

intent to hammer

this one is real. How long do I give it?

Should be now. I saw kop inning a queue.

[Realeo]

I think Gamma just exit V/LA?

[Realeo]

I think Gamma just exit V/LA?

He left V/LA 2 days ago.

I am shooting you.

[Realeo]

Eh. Let's see how this roll.

VOTE: ThinkBig

Although, I don't daveaz is scum?

[Realeo]

We are doing it my way today Reg.

Someone is on fire.

[Realeo]

@ThinkBig If you are town, thank you for playing along with the gambit

[Realeo]

My thoughts:

1) Desperado has been throwing shades at me for nearly the entire game. His "logic" and reasons are almost as bad, if not worse than, antihuman (who flipped traitor).
2) Gamma claimed goon cop. For the record, I see no reason not to believe his claim.
3) Not liking realeo at all. Don't like how he mixed up gamma's claim and turned it into a JOAT (a scum-only role in this set-up).
4) Alisae's reaction test seems contrieved and fake. These types of "reaction tests" I expect to see more from scum than from town.

Final thoughts for now: I think you'll find the last remaining scum between desperado, realeo, and alisae.

Spoiler: Between then~Alisae made 6 posts

I guess I'll believe Gamma's claim now that Realeo showed up.
Realeo's logic makes sense to me.
Lots of it.

My thoughts are...

Algebra is a fucking normie.

Reg, are you suuuuuuuure that AH wasn't attempting to push another traitor? I don't remember TB having any attention on him at that point.

Reg, are you suuuuuuuure that AH wasn't attempting to push another traitor? I don't remember TB having any attention on him at that point.

I can guarantee you he wasn't trying to push another traitor. I think it's very unlikely he was trying to push another mafia partner, the only way that traitor can die inside this setup is via lynch effectively given their BP vest and the lack of doctor meaning that mafia are never going to night kill them.

The only way that AH makes that play is if he is confident that TB won't get lynched on the back of it and if he thinks he himself will get lynched before TB to make TB look good

. I don't think he'd be replacing into the game and instantly planning what would be optimal in his own demise and deciding to take the risk having a potentially rolled killing mafia die just to have that occur. If you notice even after the point where he stated "I wasn't trying to get you lynched" (Which was a week after trying to get him lynched) he continued voting and trying to lynch TB constantly decrediting all of TBs reads and play. It's much more likely here that TB is just town.

Sorry about the typo, meant scum instead of traitor. mybad.
The bolded is as I feel like that's exactly what happened.

So what?
The way I see it, AH was telling the truth.

Before I head off for shabbos, here are my reads:

Regfan

Gamma Emerald

Realeo

Alsae

Dunnestral

Superhans
Kop

Desperado

Davesaz

Spoiler: Key

Conftown

Town

LeanTown

NullTown

Null - {N}

NullScum

LeanScum

Scum

ConfScum

I'll give a full explanation of my reads after shabbos. For now, I believe Gamma's claim and should there be a counterclaim, get a results to night and CC tomorrow. Gamma's result of not a goon on real makes it far more likely that he is town than scum. Gamma/Real=Not a team. Claiming an innocent result on a scum buddy would be far too risky.

I want to go back through dave and desperado's ISO. Their push on me seems opportunistic. I also don't like the way that Desperado has been throwing shades.

Have a good shabbos/weekend everyone!

Explain why suddenly Alisae from bottom 3 -> green.

[Realeo]

That is, the biggest mystery for me.

[Realeo]

Town: {Real,

nydush

}

Where does this comes from?

[Realeo]

I think he's mafia

Why do you think he is mafia? Why do you think he is a better lynch than desperado or superhans?

I support this product. As an isolated read, SuperHas is worse than daveaz.

[Realeo]

Can the people who keep mentioning Superhans tell me why?

The interaction of Desperado v Hans was confusing.

So Hans said that Desperado case at TB is good, but Regfan is better. He said that Desperado naked vote was not enough. Then Desperado pushed it again and suddenly SuperHans revoked his townread.

The decision of SuperHans revoking his townread @ Desperado for pushing it again for me is confusing. The conclusion should be "Desperado lost the case clash" not "Desperado is scum pushing bad case"

At the very least, nobody is voting him.

There is something called parallel discussion.

[Realeo]

But to be fair, SuperHans never really went into my lynch list. There is just someone who is scummier for me.

[Realeo]

Senpai ThinkBig, stop ignoring my question.

[Realeo]

Senpai ThinkBig, stop ignoring my question.

[Realeo]

Senpai ThinkBig, stop ignoring my question.

[Realeo]

Senpai ThinkBig, stop ignoring my question.

[Realeo]

Senpai ThinkBig, stop ignoring my question.

[Realeo]

Senpai ThinkBig, stop ignoring my question.

[Realeo]

Senpai ThinkBig, stop ignoring my question.

[Realeo]

Senpai ThinkBig, stop ignoring my question.

[Realeo]

Senpai ThinkBig, stop ignoring my question.

[Realeo]

Senpai ThinkBig, stop ignoring my question.

[Realeo]

Senpai ThinkBig, stop ignoring my question.

[Realeo]

Senpai ThinkBig, stop ignoring my question.

[Realeo]

I am dissapointed that quote pyramid can only contain 10 levels of quote.

[Realeo]

I am dissapointed that quote pyramid can only contain 10 levels of quote.

[Realeo]

I am dissapointed that quote pyramid can only contain 10 levels of quote.

[Realeo]

I am dissapointed that quote pyramid can only contain 10 levels of quote.

[Realeo]

I am dissapointed that quote pyramid can only contain 10 levels of quote.

[Realeo]

I am dissapointed that quote pyramid can only contain 10 levels of quote.

[Realeo]

I am dissapointed that quote pyramid can only contain 10 levels of quote.

[Realeo]

I am dissapointed that quote pyramid can only contain 10 levels of quote.

[Realeo]

I am dissapointed that quote pyramid can only contain 10 levels of quote.

[Realeo]

I am dissapointed that quote pyramid can only contain 10 levels of quote.

[Realeo]

Phew.

[Realeo]

It worked with Transcend.

[Realeo]

If I am actually ThinkBig's townread, instead of ignoring my question, he would answer my question and try to make a townblock. If he actually townreads me, answering my question is a win-win solution.

[Realeo]

And the fact that I keep asking question should be read as an intention of good faith of willing to be persuaded. If I have bad faith, I would ask no question to protect my stubborness.

[Realeo]

Vote: ThinkBig

We are doing it my way today Reg.

In the another side of the coin, this is a bad faith. Leaving no chance to be persuaded.

[Realeo]

I tried to be persuaded...we ran up another town PR and then lynched him anyway.

I believe in second chance but your outrage is understandable.

[Realeo]

In another news, I get bad vibes from Dunnstral of "scum shuts up and let town kill each other"

[Realeo]

In another news, I get bad vibes from Dunnstral of "scum shuts up and let town kill each other"

Seriously though what is this? I've been talking all day, you spammed up a page, in reality I posted like 4 posts above that

Ignore that. I had paranoid meltdown.

[Realeo]

The way ThinkBig plays is very annoying and I don't think it's that helpful for town either. Kinda flaky, and insubstantial.
HOWEVER
Explains his weird behaviour D1 and I think that he is probably town.

Elaborate "his weird behaviour D1"

[Realeo]

Are you Merkans? Why are you awake 5 am? When someone makes dumb post, I classify that "losing brain quality over insomnia" or "just drank too much"

[Realeo]

Because I noticed that the frequency of stupid post from me increases as time approach midnight.

[Realeo]

In another news.

We have 3 PRs.

Are we looking that mafia has day chat? It seems awkward for me for mafia to upgrade only 1 PR.

[Realeo]

The way ThinkBig plays is very annoying and I don't think it's that helpful for town either. Kinda flaky, and insubstantial.
HOWEVER
Explains his weird behaviour D1 and I think that he is probably town.

Elaborate "his weird behaviour D1"

Flipping from AH to Dunnstral and effectively divorcing himself from his 'biggest scumread'

Can you rephrase "Explains his weird behaviour D1 and I think that he is probably town." Language barrier as a foreign speaker.

[Realeo]

UNVOTE: Desperado
VOTE: Superhans

As an ISO read, Hans is worse than desperado

What specifically in my ISO?

I would lower my bar. If ThinkBig can explain this, I would like to think that I have an easier time believing him.

[Realeo]

His play is consistent with his play D1, so likely he is an awkward town player rather than mastermind scum.

Didn't Desperado had a case as this and you said a "good case, but regfan is better"

A good case deserves credit, eh?

[Realeo]

Timestamp 10 : 32

Can the people who keep mentioning Superhans tell me why?

At the very least, nobody is voting him.

I already explained my thoughts on those to. To reiterate:

I honestly think the best lynch today is either desperado or superhans. While I do not think they are scum together, I'm confident that there is at least one scum between them. Desperado's case against me was pretty much all shade throwing and trying to somehow connect me to antihuman (which I still do not understand).

Hans, on the other hand, took his arguments and sheeped it and cheerleaded his arguments. I find myself agreeing with Desperado that Hans sudden shift on me did not come from a town mindset. Yet the flip side of that, I really really do not like 1357.

Timestamp 10 : 34

UNVOTE: Desperado
VOTE: Superhans


As an ISO read, Hans is worse than desperado

How do you ISO SuperHans *250*posts in 2 minutes?

[Realeo]

Don't said you iso earlier. If you did, you would start the day by voting SH, not Desperado,

[Realeo]

And don't you say I iso him before I wrote 1672. If that's the case, you would put the vote in the same post.

[Realeo]

You didn't Iso SH, did you?

[Realeo]

My problem is this. If you say Hans iso is

bad

, I can still entertain the concept of skimming. You can make a

qualitative

judgement from skimming from quick impression

If you say Hans iso is

worse

, I don't. How do you make a

comparative

judgement from skimming? Comparative takes time to judge which one is bad or worse.

Comparison is different from impression. Especially in this social deduction game.

.

Let on reading the iso in 2 minutes, I find it hard to believe that you make the comparison in 2 minutes.

[Realeo]

How do you ISO SuperHans *250*posts in 2 minutes?

Stop throwing shades. It doesn't take that long to skim through an ISO.

@regfan: Go take a look and see if you can skim SuperHans iso in 2 minutes

[Realeo]

250 posts in 2 minute is 2 posts/ second

Is that biologically possible?

[Realeo]

I think that it should be obvious that I am advocating "Lynch all liar" because

1 ] He cannot even justify making a read.
2 ] He's dodging question about read. Not only my question. Superhans question.

Unless everything is a grand scheme of ThinkBig's ultimate reaction test, which according to regfan's meta at ThinkBig's intelligence is approaching impossible, then lynch him.

[Realeo]

And if regfan said that "ThinkBig is dumb town", the next post would be in Swahili.

[Realeo]

How do you ISO SuperHans *250*posts in 2 minutes?

Stop throwing shades. It doesn't take that long to skim through an ISO.

I am shade throwing? Oooooh. Is this the moment where I became from top town read into bottom scum read...just like Alisae?

[Realeo]

Desperado y do you think you are in a position to lead. You're the last person I want to lead right now.

I couldn't care less what you want.

You're making this relationship more toxic.

To be fair, instead of asking why, you can just overtake the leadership.

Just like regfan did at me @ D2.

[Realeo]

Leadership overtaking is a legal strategy in mafiascum.net

[Realeo]

y tho?

Because your entire demeanor regarding his lunch andy case changed when reg replaced in and started WKing think but even though you're sheeped his case you still wouldn't call Think town. It was all terribly scummy.

felt that your demeanor regardign Regfan questioning your logic was scummy.

Potential town post.

[Realeo]

One Scum within:
{ThinkBig Desperado}

How do I persuade you to switch to ThinkBig? What logic explanation that I can fill for you?

[Realeo]

For overall goodness, can you clarify 'y thinkbig?'. Do you mean, "What catch Desperado's attention to think, 'Ah, maybe ThinkBig is scum. I should check it'"?

I presented a case why {Desperado,Alisae,GE} town due to AH reaction. It should be accesible in my iso.

Local clock approaching midnight. Offline soon.

[Realeo]

Not the AH desperation part. The other where AH rebuttal Alisae's read list.

[Realeo]

Elevator pitch me ThinkBig.
Desperado first (hopefully)
but i want everyones case.

L A Z Y?
It's in his iso.

[Realeo]

You should be an expert on my Think case, you spent half of D2 riding my jock and waving it in front of everyone's face

Good point

[Realeo]

Which part of my logic confuses you all?

[Realeo]

Because the problem is, I get no feedback. It's just a constant battle between me v Hans.

[Realeo]

I tossed why TB is scum and no one talked about it.

[Realeo]

If ThinkBig is scum, why are his reads changing in such an organic way that flows with the game events?

Loaded question

Isn't that why his scum? No resistance. Like he has no opinion.

[Realeo]

Like everyone disagree at something right?

Dunn thinks daveaz is scum.
SuperHans thinks Desperado is scum.
I think TB is scum.

Does TB has nothing to say? Does he only repeat what the mood syas?

[Realeo]

What did you expect to get feedback from?

ANd what the hell is this? When you make a read, you just shut your ear and don't care what people say?

[Realeo]

Do I need to make another pyramid quote to get people feedback?

[Realeo]

How do you ISO SuperHans *250*posts in 2 minutes?

Stop throwing shades. It doesn't take that long to skim through an ISO.

250 posts in 2 minute is 2 posts/ second

Is that biologically possible?

Like, I don't see a reason for town to lie unless it's a gambit.

[Realeo]

And ThinkBig is now dodging SuperHans question again the moment SuperHans is too busy with Desperado.

[Realeo]

@davesaz

For your 1852, I think I can create any narrative that I want to that conversation.

[Realeo]

Judging by the fact he still sticks with Desperado, methink SuperHans is town.

[Realeo]

I also think tb is towny

Lying is town action?

[Realeo]

I also think tb is towny

Lying is town action?

You are speculating tb is gambiting?

[Realeo]

@Realo,
Do you think TB's chronic lack of content and originality is necessarily scum? What else do you base your scum read on?

His lying. There is a legitimate excuse for that 250 posts/2 minutes...I can think one legit, but he just say "Stop throwing shade."

So he didn't deny the 250 posts/2 minutes.

And I ask if it's biologically possible.

[Realeo]

[...]
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt instead of power lynching you. I suggest you use that opportunity to up your game.

Lol I can see scum motivation in this post. Threatening Dunnstral for making a case on you. Id like to see you to go ahead and tell me

how

you'd power lynch Dunnstral.

Enlight me.

[Realeo]

Someone.

Explain to me in plain English..

Why

consistently

avoiding question is towny?

The keyword is avoding. Not "small content". Avoiding.

[Realeo]

Out of topic. Superhans. Why you asked for an elevator pitch? I am still flustered.

[Realeo]

To be more specific, I don't know what is your end goal for asking the elevator pitch. My impression is "for luls", but if you do it "for luls", why are you making a serious fuss on Desperado?

[Realeo]

Somebody who townread TB needs to explain it..including D3 interaction.

[Realeo]

V/LA 24 hours

Potential confbias, need to wind out.

While I'm winding out, let me express my self.

The reason why I am having hard time to townread ThinkBig is those who townread TB, didn't explain why TB is town, considering D3 interaction.Most people who townread ThinkBig mentioning reasoning from D2 and not mention D3.

Since you didn't consider D3 interaction, your townread at ThinkBig is set at stone?

[Realeo]

V/LA 24 hours

Potential confbias, need to wind out.

While I'm winding out, let me express my self.

The reason why I am having hard time to townread ThinkBig is those who townread TB, didn't explain why TB is town, considering D3 interaction.Most people who townread ThinkBig mentioning reasoning from D2 and not mention D3.

Since you didn't consider D3 interaction, your townread at ThinkBig is set at stone?

It just feels double standard that people consider Superhans action at D3, Desperado action at D3, but not ThinkBig.

[Realeo]

Out of topic. Superhans. Why you asked for an elevator pitch? I am still flustered.

Well if u want to lynch TB, pitch it to me.

Imagine this is happening at the end of presidential debate.

Ok. Presidential candidate. Tell us in 30 seconds your entire case of building America.

But we just talked about in for the last 2 hours of the debate! Why do we need to repeat what we say?

I don't give a damn. I am the moderator. Eventhough that I have moderated this debate for 2 hours about a lot of things, I am going to ask you to summarize what your 2 hours debate in 30 seconds in new word.



Regardless of Desperado's actual alignment, I would be surprised if he's not pissed off.

[Realeo]

Out of topic. Superhans. Why you asked for an elevator pitch? I am still flustered.

Well if u want to lynch TB, pitch it to me.

Can I convince you to read Desperado's iso instead of asking him to make an evelator pitch?

[Realeo]

The last thing we need is someone scumreading someone for disagreeing on morality and the ideal way to do communication.

[Realeo]

The last thing we need is someone scumreading someone for disagreeing on morality and the ideal way to do communication.

Which, to a certain degree is why I'm asking people about why is it towny to ignore~because it seems a peer consensus that ignoring is a good thing.

[Realeo]

Also your comparison to political debates is silly. Politicians are always being asked absolutely enormous questions which they have to boil down into 30 second sound bites.

So you agree with me that political sound bites is not the most efficient way, eh?

I mean. Since you're UTS + 0, then *cough* Brexit *cough* A lot of political sound bites that expat are bad *cough*

[Realeo]

He has not spent the last 2 hours talking about ThinkBig, since early D2 he hasnt reiterated his case that much at all.

Out of topic. Superhans. Why you asked for an elevator pitch? I am still flustered.

Well if u want to lynch TB, pitch it to me.

Can I convince you to read Desperado's iso instead of asking him to make an evelator pitch?

Look at page 73, I pull out Desperados case (that he made in page 35 and page 36). I mean thats quite a while ago would you not agree? Thought by asking for an elevator pitch, he could accommodate for the 35 pages after his last post.

Ah. So it's a case of bad word choice then. You shouldn't say the word Elevator Pitch since the connotation of "Elevator Pitch" is tell everything in short time (ie. "Tell me your startup idea in 30 seconds".) You should have said "Is there anything new or update about your read)

[Realeo]

Ah. So it's a case of bad word choice then. You shouldn't say the word Elevator Pitch since the connotation of "Elevator Pitch" is tell everything in short time (ie. "Tell me your startup idea in 30 seconds".) You should have said "Is there anything new or update about your read)

Does "Elevator Pitch" has a different meaning in U.K. Like "Your idea sounds interesting" means "Your idea sucks"

Serious question. I find UK's culture confusing.

[Realeo]

See the context. Superhans is actually asking for "Is there anything else"?

[Realeo]

I'm trying to think how "Ok Superhans, please tell me again in one post why you want to lynch Desperado" would not piss Superhans off.

[Realeo]

SH, I think either you are bad at estimating someone's patience or

you are a really really really patient person in real life

What do you for living?

[Realeo]

SH, I think either you are bad at estimating someone's patience or

you are a really really really patient person in real life

What do you for living?

Study.

You must be one of a heck curious student.

[Realeo]

Also, I still think that TB is most likely town due to the day 1.

You are the person that I am implying when I said, "Townreading without considering the interaction of day 3." I guess I am not good at making sarcasm.

[Realeo]

I've played this setup before and the scum team chose no powers and town got bodyguard and tracker and lost





good thing I wasn't town

Interesting comment now that we know that scum chose a power. Do you think that dunnstral as scum would pick a power after claiming to have won this setup having chosen no powers prior?

I would consider it NAI, to be fair. Too speculative. He has a meta of capable of doing literally anything as scum...and town.

[Realeo]

Wait, so goon cop gets a "not goon" result on:

Bulletproof
Role Cop
Jack of All Trades

?

In the future, if realeo ever does become considered potential scum, I think the world of realeo + dunnstral is dead just because of this. I don't think scum!dunnstral would be confused enough to ask this question. I think he'd just be super duper happy that his scum partner got not goon checked.

The last time we used this logic, a roleblocker is lynched.

@Dunnstral

: When is your last game of STD?

[Realeo]

The logic used to lynch kop was one in which we assumed that scum would take 0 powers or many many powers, not just 1 because I personally couldn't see why scum would stop at 1 when combinations of powers seem so much stronger. It had nothing to do with "these 2 can't be partners."

No. No. You're a short term person.

If you use the logic that [1] scum!Dunn won't say "Phew" so scum!Dunn + scum!Realeo is impossible.

the next step would be

[2] Dunn said "phew" but he had knowledge of this game from previous play, therefore is lying scum for being confused.

I just want to prevent us from getting to [2]. The first step to avoid [2] is to avoid [1]

[Realeo]

I don't have the posts saved to prove it but I feel like anyone reading the ISOs can probably say that superhans and dunnstral are unlikely to be partners

May you explain why? I think I would agree, but for different reason.

[Realeo]

I'm putting TB in the reconsider section for now.

won't progress to [2]

Thank you.

[Realeo]

@

Regfan

1. No. There is two d2 readlist. The first one, TB puts Alisae at green. The null one is the second readlist.

2. I thought regadless of Kop's flip, there is a high chance of Gamma being Nk, so a retarded attempt to claim vig and get Nked instead.

Obviously, no Oscar.

[Realeo]

Outside TB? I'm second guessing ndus and Dunnstral.

[Realeo]

@Real

Before I head off for shabbos, here are my reads:

Regfan

Gamma Emerald

Realeo

Alsae

Dunnestral

Superhans
Kop

Desperado

Davesaz

Spoiler: Key

Conftown

Town

LeanTown

NullTown

Null - {N}

NullScum

LeanScum

Scum

ConfScum

I'll give a full explanation of my reads after shabbos. For now, I believe Gamma's claim and should there be a counterclaim, get a results to night and CC tomorrow. Gamma's result of not a goon on real makes it far more likely that he is town than scum. Gamma/Real=Not a team. Claiming an innocent result on a scum buddy would be far too risky.

I want to go back through dave and desperado's ISO. Their push on me seems opportunistic. I also don't like the way that Desperado has been throwing shades.

Have a good shabbos/weekend everyone!

[Realeo]

What's your read on SuperHans, Desperado & Dave at the moment?

I actually townread Superhans.

I townread him because ThinkBig jumped on him

I townread him that even though he acknowledge TB is bad, he still try to solve Desperado~which I think is consistently town. It seems like a town with a consistent priority-o-meter. Think about this. If I tunnel TB, it would take a massive case for me to jump out of the tunnel. Given the size of my case, it's not really huge enough to jump out of Desperado. Once it's resolved that he doesn't see anything wrong about 'Elevator Pitch', I see him as "Ah, the town who didn't make things clear" instead of "Ah, the scum who tries to find alibi to white knight his partner.

I haven't solve Desperado and daveaz.

[Realeo]

@Realeo - Here's the entirety of ThingBigs reads list that I can find, D1 #502 where he has Alisea listed as town, D1 #570, still has Alisea listed as town, inside Post 999 he finds recent posts of her scummy on D2 and votes her and mentions the same in Post 1039. Then in D2 #1143 he has her listed as null (maybe null town) in the reads list which he maintains in D2 #1466 until he states that he town reads the slot due to Nydus's posts and moves them to town in D2 #1621. Don't find the progression that bad overall, think your point about him pretending to read Hans ISO is much stronger. The post you just quoted isn't a new reads list, it's a copy of #1143.

You get the chronology wrong

Final thoughts for now: I think you'll find the last remaining scum between desperado, realeo, and alisae.

Before I head off for shabbos, here are my reads:

Regfan

Gamma Emerald

Realeo

Alsae

Dunnestral

Superhans
Kop

Desperado

Davesaz

Spoiler: Key

Conftown

Town

LeanTown

NullTown

Null - {N}

NullScum

LeanScum

Scum

ConfScum

I'll give a full explanation of my reads after shabbos. For now, I believe Gamma's claim and should there be a counterclaim, get a results to night and CC tomorrow. Gamma's result of not a goon on real makes it far more likely that he is town than scum. Gamma/Real=Not a team. Claiming an innocent result on a scum buddy would be far too risky.

I want to go back through dave and desperado's ISO. Their push on me seems opportunistic. I also don't like the way that Desperado has been throwing shades.

Have a good shabbos/weekend everyone!

Then his 2nd readlist put Alisae at null.

[Realeo]

The question: What happens between 1039 and 1439 for him to townread Alisae?

[Realeo]

I mean, between 1039 and 1143.

[Realeo]

Keep in mind that 1130 readlist is made

before

the replacement.

[Realeo]

I guess I'll believe Gamma's claim now that Realeo showed up.
Realeo's logic makes sense to me.
Lots of it.

My thoughts are...

Algebra is a fucking normie.

Reg, are you suuuuuuuure that AH wasn't attempting to push another traitor? I don't remember TB having any attention on him at that point.

Reg, are you suuuuuuuure that AH wasn't attempting to push another traitor? I don't remember TB having any attention on him at that point.

I can guarantee you he wasn't trying to push another traitor. I think it's very unlikely he was trying to push another mafia partner, the only way that traitor can die inside this setup is via lynch effectively given their BP vest and the lack of doctor meaning that mafia are never going to night kill them.

The only way that AH makes that play is if he is confident that TB won't get lynched on the back of it and if he thinks he himself will get lynched before TB to make TB look good

. I don't think he'd be replacing into the game and instantly planning what would be optimal in his own demise and deciding to take the risk having a potentially rolled killing mafia die just to have that occur. If you notice even after the point where he stated "I wasn't trying to get you lynched" (Which was a week after trying to get him lynched) he continued voting and trying to lynch TB constantly decrediting all of TBs reads and play. It's much more likely here that TB is just town.

Sorry about the typo, meant scum instead of traitor. mybad.
The bolded is as I feel like that's exactly what happened.

So what?
The way I see it, AH was telling the truth.

[Realeo]

In fact, Alisae has been pushing ThinkBig.

ThinkBig has been calling every push on him shade throwing. ThinkBig shouldn't null town him. ThinkBig should have scumread Alisae even further.

[Realeo]

him not considering davesaz is what irks me

[Realeo]

I was going to say good point.

[Realeo]

The full chronology is this

Town lean

-> knee jerk reaction ->

Scum lean

-> ? -> Town null -> replacement -> Absolute null

correct?

I understand

Town lean

-> knee jerk reaction ->

Scum lean

I don't understand the

Scum lean

-> ? -> Town null. What is this '?'.

[Realeo]

I have been promising from D2 that understanding '?' would help me be convinced why he's town.

But he refused to answer..

[Realeo]

During this '?', I make this super-towny-analysis-at-AH and the conclusion is Alisae is town and Alisae + Realeo becomes a town block. I hyphothize that TB is appeasing us by putting Alisae null town.

But the problem is Alisae has been tunneling. Since when, according to TB's definition, tunnel is pro-town? Every tunnel is disregarded as shade throwing. That's what he did at me. What he did at Desperado. Why not at Alisae? If it's shade throwing, why null town instead of scum lean?

[Realeo]

And TB only starts to refuse answering my question the moment Alisae replaces out...because I lost my ally so I no longer a threat.

[Realeo]

Uhhh, if alisae was scummy, can we just ignore that he was ever in my slot? I agree that it's shocking that alisae, as town, didn't suicide by the end of day 1 but read my play instead realeo xD.

It's not Alisae that's scummy.

It's you.

Alisae is my town ally.

[Realeo]

Anti human also townread daveaz.

[Realeo]

Anti human also didn't rebuttal Alisae argument of Despeado is scum. Which is the entire core reason why I townread {GE,Alisae,Desperado}