Open 669 - Nightless Vengeful Mayhem [Game Over]

[MagnaofIllusion]

And since FC is trying to lurk out the pressure I thought I’d refresh with my case on him (aside from the Daykill which has been handled pretty well in thread recently) –

To Doomfeathers, I was making a joke; I knew I couldn't vote, so I did that.

And I was answering your question.

Vote: Doomfeathers

For being confusing.

Well, to be honest, we are kinda still in RVS...

First indication of scum alignment. In context – Day 1 had just started. Already Doom had amassed 3 votes on the same page – myself, wgeurts, and Hawk. In those votes there was plenty of reasoning (page 2 reasoning which says “not strong” but enough) to be had. Then in swoops FC with the fourth vote “for being confusing”. Which is pretty poor but when I voted him for the clear bandwagon his response is “We are in RVS”. Which is not a response consistent with someone who simply got an single empty vote (46) and thinks we are in RVS. His response is an explanation … if he really thinks we are in RVS why isn’t there some consideration that my vote could be RVS? Too immediately defensive of a single vote.

Wagons aren't always a bad thing, as Hawk said.

I would FOS Magna, but his scumhunting makes me inclined to believe he is town.

As before this shows that FC is again worried about perceptions. His instinct is to strike back at the person calling him scum but is worried about being called out for OMGUS. So he instead throws down a self-contradictory post so he isn’t ignoring my posts.

I’ve already pointed out that his reads lists from 138 and 153 don’t make sense as actual reads lists given I did not post at all in that period but I went from NullTown to Null.

Hm. Nullscumreading Superhans.

Only null, as it is a bit usual in mafia for deaths to occur.

Vote: Karnos

I’ve already pointed out why this is a scum-motivated post.

And lastly we have his Prod Dodge from 375.

So look at his ISO in full. It isn’t long. Ask yourself – is there any indication in those posts that FC was actually trying to solve the game and sort out the Mafia from the Town? I don’t see any at all. No interactions and questions. Just posts that purport to provide content but have no semblance of thought process or reasoning supporting them. Active lurking to a tee.

[lucca261]

My problem with UD is that their thought progression doesn't seem to be natural. Maybe it's the Hydra, but I don't think so.
I didn't like their scumread-townread-scumread on Revan, specially when they go asking around other people about their scumread on Revan, but themselves don't give their opinion. I think it's scummy, and that he's testing the waters.
Their interaction with Sesq is weird as well, and on all of their interactions seems that UD is preparing for an unvote on him.
Also, a lot of his posts are just playstyle/theory arguments, and there is not a lot of content.

Well, we've been somewhat transparently open to lynching either FC or Sesq, so in that sense we've certainly been "preparing" for a potential move. I also have literally no idea what you're talking about when you say

a lot of his posts are just playstyle/theory arguments, and there is not a lot of content

. I don't know if you're confusing "reading the game state and known scum actions" with "theory", or if there's some other entirely different point you're trying to make.
It's also odd that you're talking about our thought process being unnatural without being able to cite specific examples of why you think that to be the case. Since this seems to be a point you care about, please illustrate and explain it.

The "preparing" part means that I get the feel that you actually don't want to lynch Sesq, and is trying desperately to get on other wagons while staying with the Sesq bus option.

One of the stuff I look when hunting for scum is consistency. Scum has to portray a narrative of why they're town. If for some reason people break their narrative, it's a break on the consistency of the player. For an example, if either Wgeurts or Magna posted a very emotional post on a situation that wouldn't require this type of posting, I would re-read that slot more carefully.

I didn't like your interactions with Mozamis or Sesq. You (sorry if I'm getting the pronoum wrong.) seem like you're a very thoughtful player, who's always asking questions and following up on them. That's why your interaction with Mozamis felt so weird to me. You asked things to him, he didn't answer, and you just let go, like you were not interested anymore. I think I explained my problem with your interactions with Sesq up on this post.

Truthfully, my read on you depends more on the Sesq flip. It's too early to do this? Maybe. But if Sesq is scum, I think you're a possible partner for him. If he's town, you are probable null to me, since your interactions with him, my biggest issue with you, become null as well.

The game content stuff is that, for a player with a lot of posts like you, a lot of your posts consists only on day-kill analysis and theory questions. I think a scummy player could use that to escape giving meaninful thoughts. Not your case. I was putting that on the "case" as something to analyse further on other time.

[Friend Computer]

I'm sorry I'm not more active.

I tend to forget...

Look. I'll do what you want me to do.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Look. I'll do what you want me to do.

--

Ok, being serious at this stage somehow if you are Town you should be re-reading the game and be ready to make your best effort at a Vengekill.

[Revan]

Am I the only one getting the too scummy to be scum vibe from FC?

[lucca261]

Am I the only one getting the too scummy to be scum vibe from FC?

I think he's faking it.

[doomfeathers]

I thought you meant from yourself. Superhans has, in fact, been resisting your lynch. I think he's your partner.

It could be a gambit of some sorts. He might be trying to back me so it looks like I have viable partners (and more reason to lynch), and then I flip town and those associations are dropped.

Noted, thanks. In that case, I'll remember to suspect him no matter what you flip.

Come to think of it, we may want to try to lynch the day goon today so he can't use his second kill. Do we have any indicators of who might be not only scum but also the killer?

not necessarily in a scummy sense, but that lack of thread awareness, given that it's been a frequent point of discussion, is kind of annoying

I'm pretty sure I posted that before Magna's wagon on FC for that purpose was started.

But let's not lynch until near end of day; we want to catch as many as possible. It'd probably be good to avoid L-1 until then, too, to avoid wayward hammerers, especially since Sesq is offering to self-hammer

Just in case this is just you not really understanding, which since you're relatively new I'll just guess to be the case, taking too much time is anti-town as well as a stalled game state induces apathy and laziness. Take all the time you need, not all the time you have.

Thank you for explaining that. I still want to make good use of all the time I can, but now I'm okay with going ahead and lynching if things aren't happening.

I'm sorry I'm not more active.

I tend to forget...

Look. I'll do what you want me to do.

Hm. Nullscumreading Superhans.

Only null, as it is a bit usual in mafia for deaths to occur.

Vote: Karnos

Friend Computer, could you explain your motivation for voting karnos?

Great. Could you answer this question, please? Then I'd quit bugging you about it, and you would also have a post from this week that's more than a prod dodge!

(Also, if you are somehow town, shoot Sesq, please.)

[doomfeathers]

Am I the only one getting the too scummy to be scum vibe from FC?

"Too scummy to be scum" isn't valid for the same reason as "too townie to be town". http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Too_Townie

[Friend Computer]

It was a joke. I wanted to see what would happen if you voted the mod.

[doomfeathers]

That kind of makes sense, though it seems odd that it took you three days to answer.

[Sesq]

This is because I forgot about the vote reset and assumed I had 5 (4 from pre-dk and the one after).

This doesn’t explain why you claimed you would self-vote if you were Town.

It was me expressing how scummy I looked for an outward angle. I wouldn't actually self-vote, it's fucking pointless unless you're a Jester.

No, it's actually more of a town tell. If scum has a large wagon, other scum will want to stop them. This hasn't happened at all.

If by some circumstance you aren’t Mafia I suggest you go to the Wiki and look up “bussing” because this is all sorts of incorrect.

I know what bussing is, my mafia strategy is to allow myself to bus the hell out of people. However, even with bussing factored in, scum isn't going to just not want a counterwagon of some sorts.

That said, it isn't really relevant, as the last votecount was 4 votes for FC, and 2 for Revan, Superhans and I, each.

Friend Computer - Has done much less than I and yet has no votes. This is idiocy.

So the clear inference is that FC not having votes for doing “less” than Sesq is idiocy which means he should have votes (ie that behavior is suspicious). Directly conflicts with the above where Sesq says “My experience is that those that neglect the thread are more likely Town”.

Because if people re-evaluate their reads, they MUST be scum. There seems to be a serious problem throughout your post of presupposing I'm scum, and then finding arguments to back that up. Your posts are good ignoring that, but it is an issue. Sometimes you need to pull your head waaaay out (of your reads not your
VOTE:
That said, the following shenanigans involving FC were quite amusing.

Right after Magna points out his prod-dodge, he sticks his head out and is like

I'm sorry I'm not more active.

I tend to forget...

Look. I'll do what you want me to do.

This is the least I've seen anyone try at a mafia game ever for all time and eternity. The "Look. I'll do what you want me to do." quote especially just feels really scummy. And him responding to his modvote 12 (TWEEEEELLLVEEE) pages ago with "eeeeh it was just a joke, a gag eh? I just wanted to see..." just- no. Just no. At this point, with these prod-dodges, lack of interaction, excuses, I feel confident placing my vote now, as Revan's wagon seems unfortunately dead.

VOTE: Friend Computer

I should also point out that the karnos vote being a joke itself isn't really super scummy, just kinda pointless, but him trying to answer to that three days later... ugh. I don't know.

[Ultimate Despair]

@UD how are you reading Wguert?

Both me and Mukuto have consistently bad gut feelings on him. But neither of us trust our gut that much, and we didn't see anything scummy when we looked at his ISO, so I'm willing to say that we townread him for now.

- Junko

[Ultimate Despair]

You saying “Please explain your Town read on wgeuts” and saying Moz’s reasoning is bad isn’t really very compelling Day 1 as a reason for him to totally re-assess.

Do you not Town read Wguets?

It's a compelling reason. If their reasoning has been proven wrong, they should want to re-assess their read, because the carpet just got yanked out from under them, so to speak.

I do townread Wgeurts. But I also think that mozamis handing out this kind of read and being absurdly stubborn about it is frivolous and could be scum trying to buddy or look good if wgeurts flips town.

[Ultimate Despair]

There is a possibility that experienced scum did a "random" kill on purpose, to implicate the possibility of a newbie scumteam, that would be wrong?

I doubt it. Two kills a game means the kills are valuable and need to be hoarded. The scum team can't afford to waste one on some flimsy WIFOM nonsense. This looks like a panic kill and I'm treating it as such.

- Junko

[Ultimate Despair]

@UD, what is your current read on Mozamis?

Scumlean.

- Junko

[Ultimate Despair]

Hey, UD, could you clarify which head thinks that Revan is scummy? It would be easier to read your posts.

Previously it was just Mukuro. I think I'm starting to swing around to his line of thinking given some of the horrible posts Revan has made.

[Ultimate Despair]

VOTE: Friend Computer

Think this is L-1

Superhans is scummy, anyone trying to divert us off the Sesq/FC wagons with WIFOM nonsense is scummy.

[Friend Computer]

Look, I'm very sorry about this, but I missed so much that I can't really be of any help.

i don't know what to do

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Friend Computer

Think this is L-1

Superhans is scummy, anyone trying to divert us off the Sesq/FC wagons with WIFOM nonsense is scummy.

Uh....nope...that was hammer. Mod had (4/7) showing but also clearly stated it was 6 to lynch (since there are 11 of us left). Your vote makes 6.

[Friend Computer]

Meh. Wouldn't be of much use anyway.

[mozamis]

sorry ill yesterday. catching up.

[karnos]

Vote Count 1.8

**Friend Computer**

(6/6)

- wgeurts, magnaofillusion, havingfitz, doomfeathers, sesq, ultimate despair

Superhans

(2/6)

- revan, lucca261

Sesq

(1/6)

- mozamis

Revan

(1/6)

- superhans

A lynch has occurred!

Please stand by.

[karnos]

Friend Computer has been lynched!
He was a

Spoiler:

Townie

[/spoiler]

R.I.P.

Sesq has been vengekilled!
She was a

Spoiler:

Townie

[/spoiler]

R.I.P.

Day 2 begins!

(expired on 2017-02-04 09:00:01) until deadline.
With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

[Revan]

I guess I was the only one getting the too scummy to be scum vibe...

VOTE: Superhans

[havingfitz]

Mod...when you post your vote counts could you add a line for those not voting?

I knew there was a player not on any EOD1 wagons but couldn't remember who (it was FC btw).

Sucks that FC was town. Glad he took out lynchbait Sesq though. But sucks that Sesq was town. (you said "butt sucks"..hehe...hehe -Beavis)

As for D2...I lean towards there not being a lot of scum support for the FC lynch. He was a weak lurky player who had good points made against him. The same with Sesq. So while it sucks they were both town...at least we got rid of some of the low hanging fruit. Point being though...I do not think scum would have had to put a lot of effort into support FC's lynch. I could see there 0-1 on the mislynch. I.e. 2-3 off the mislynch.

All this off the top of my head so I want to go back over D1 to see where I want my vote to go today.

And as usual...my weekend posting will be limited so it might be tomorrow or Monday before I get a chance to apply a closer look.

p.edit.

Revan...can you give some reasoning too for your Superhans vote? Do the two town flips effect your read on him at all?

Also...Superhans....would you mind if I just called you Hans?