Mini Normal 1861: Musical Mafia (TOWN WIN)

[Naomi-Tan]

Hey all. This is my first time replacing! (mainly cause the cue was a large game and multi-ball Yuk!) so here I am Normally I like to make a statement second post but as Im replacing I think i'll just do it here.

Firstly; I call Town Green and Mafia Reds. this is cause I think the use of Scum and Scummy is kinda mean to say to people who are just playing a game and red and green are much nicer terms. I mean its not like you getta hand select roles This is just a thing to bare in mind going forward.

Secondly; This entire post is NAI. I post this as both alignments the only thing changing being the wording as I tend to just rephrase it a little each game to try and get better wording. You can check this in my Green meta on my Wiki page. as all newer games (prob the last 4 or 5) have this kinda statement (normally on my second iso post)

Finally; I have an abnormal play style. Unlike the meta on this site I tend to do things that help me survive as both alignments. Sometimes that means bending things to a point and other times it means I'll do LAMIST things for no good reason other than I don't wanna die. I also play with a very open hand though. This is beacuse I feel that being open and forward helps keep me alive with Green members and help me decide who is green and who is red. I struggle when pressured and if I'm pressured by a lot of people my reads get tilted as I am prone to confirm bais at times and unless I have a healthy view point its hard to get reads. additionally if my big reads go wrong I sorta get lost and confused until I can refind my footing. I'm telling you this as Its something that Red players can use to push my misslynch and green players can get tricked by. Additionally as I make this statement as both alignments Its impossible to tell what I am using this statement. Think it a quick overview of green meta. You may look at any of my games on my wiki Ordered first to last to look for these trends but imo they are all there. Other than that I tend to make long posts every so often and multiple shorter posts in between asking questions or looking into things that I find interesting. I like to exchange information freely to those who ask unless I have a plan that requires not telling people stuff (like I'm baiting a reaction for example)

And I guess I'll ask whats up with my slot right now while I start looking back at the game. I may spam the thread a bit while reading up as I react and ask questions on the fly. As of now I've replaced into this slot entirely blind to the game.

[Naomi-Tan]

Hey Naomi I'm town, let's start with that, otherwise we're gonna butt heads, so let's avoid that right from the start. *halo*

So your not town got it.

[Naomi-Tan]

Page 1; I question my slots choices -_- Like seriously? -_- just gonna go and be all slayer gambit, but be so freaken obvious that no red will fall for it. jeez.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay its becoming clear that Im not gonnna get my pure unbiest read from cloud kicker just kinda being... well.. Loud? I'm going with loud.. So.. Yeah I guess It may take me a bit to grasp at things here as this review is going poorly. maybe I should of read a bit before I accepted the slot XD

[Naomi-Tan]

On Page 3 now. kinda skipping a lot of stuff as I'm trying to have an open mind and disagree with CK's apporch but as i'm in their slot I have to also avoid being influenced by that. Kairal is looking kinda redish so far..

[Naomi-Tan]

On page 4 just got an 68 seems a bit too soon for anyone to make a town statement like that so.. It makes me think that their slot (BlackVoid) might be red too.

[Naomi-Tan]

Sigh.. the worst part about this read up is I'm waiting for CK to self destruct and disrupt my reads as she dominates chat..

[Naomi-Tan]

Urgh... of course you lynched IO.. I just went to check if they was in the game getting a green read from there first post alone and poof dead.. great.. welp least I'll get to filter that train sigh.. this is a lot of text..

[Naomi-Tan]

A little new at this but
VOTE: CloudKicker
Cuz you're standing out more than others

When did 'standing out' become a reason to vote? couldn't you of gone more indepth about your thoughts on things at least others commented about if they was faking or not. Your just like; you talk too much vote. come on..

[Naomi-Tan]

Huh.. so Grey really does just push people.

[Naomi-Tan]

Page 5; time for a break.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l7shCvDXUU

Thoughts so far;

I have a Green read off of culted There actions don't fall in line with what I'd concider red moviation and they seem to be thinking and working well off others.


HellloooNewman
I Am Innocent
Aj The Epic

Are getting free pass's for just generally not getting any interest from me what so ever. (AKA Null reads)

Massive should also be a null read but I didn't like there reaction to my last post. seemed a bit weird//not what I remember but then again I think thats just me so you can sit in the cataogry im gonna call the void which lines in a space between null and redish.

I didn't really like flubbs reaction to CK's faked slips but I think if they are as smart as I think they are they also might of called it and not cared as I would of if I was playing and not in this slot.

Dierfire I didn't like there entrance post and given it was 5 pages in thats kinda lurky.

Kairal Probs my biggest red read on page 5. Apart from voting every green read I've had bar one. They always seem kinda weak. I also didn't like them leaving the gray train that they had committed too earlier.

Black Void I have your slot listed as possible red. Though I didn't write down why and off the top of my head don't remember must been a post your precessor did. but I can find that in a bit once I'm done and might get some more supporting or conflicting evidence for you being red. sorry for the vagueness but I lost the note XD

FOS: Kairal

I'm not gonna vote until I have read up and know if my reads are right. but as a reaction to the first 5 pages. this is what I got. stay tunned for more later after I wish to continue

[Naomi-Tan]

I didn't really like flubbs reaction to CK's faked slips but I think if they are as smart as I think they are they also might of called it and not cared as I would of if I was playing and not in this slot.

Uh .. wait what? CK's

faked

slips?

yeah you know that stuff they was doing on page one

[Naomi-Tan]

I didn't really like flubbs reaction to CK's faked slips but I think if they are as smart as I think they are they also might of called it and not cared as I would of if I was playing and not in this slot.

Uh .. wait what? CK's

faked

slips?

That + ahmished tell certainly doesn't help how I've been reading Shadow's slot recently.

What can I say. when I read the first page and saw them claim to be red and then rolled 1d9 I was like this is dumb and so obviosuly fake. This shouldn't be a shock to someone who knows mini-setups but generally speaking 4 reds is a no go and here its still not a thing else the game would of ended.

[Naomi-Tan]

BTW Im still on page 5 I got rather distracted with the internet as you do. Anyway I guess I better keep reading. though now im kinda sleepy and off hilter so.. things may be a bit stranger as I struggle to focus ^^;

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay.. I like that late page 5 post by Kairal Examining and noticing flailing and saying it in such a way that others take note of it I feel is a very pro-townie move as reds don't really wanna stop chaos like CK was causing at the start of D1 This is why I felt like going back and exmanining things was important. I feel that showing your thoughts to where you end up with your living reads is a trip people need to see as it gives insight into your thinking as green and allows less wiggle room for reds. like I could of just read it and said nothing but I would find that infinitely more unhelpful than someone who takes there time and talks about old stuff without knowing the twists. Like I had no idea they was cops before thingy said ealier. As I haddn't gotten to that part. So I didn't have that filter lense it was just pure what I think. If that makes sense. anyway I'm sleepy waffling back to reading.

[Naomi-Tan]

You know. knowing your slot is VT as you read back interactions with others is a very weird experience. I have no idea what CK is thinking all early game but I know there green its like... I can't see where there coming from at all. its so strange.

[Naomi-Tan]

You know. knowing your slot is VT as you read back interactions with others is a very weird experience. I have no idea what CK is thinking all early game but I know there green its like... I can't see where there coming from at all. its so strange.

Its like. If I was playing Vs. CK I'd thought to vote them... yet I'd been wrong. and that just tossing me for a loop like.. I'd vote for them as green. so can I really fault others for red reading? Do I just look for the obviously week pushes? how do you handle that? Cause CK just handled themselves so poorly I'm just bewildered.

[Naomi-Tan]

Did shadow at least handle things better? or was they one of those replacements that got some heat and flaked?

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: IO

Omg PLEASE don't tell me they was on the IO wagon at flip >_<

[Naomi-Tan]

Double checked Kairal didn't tell me who the cop or innconnects was explicitly this means that I'm free to continue to work out the game without rose tilted glass's XD I wonder If I can work it out shh. don't tell me who till I get there

[Naomi-Tan]

How do associative tells not work? Like I know I've been gone for 8 months but how does the community just disregard an entire part of scumhunting? (Asking because this is something I've heard multiple times in like 2 days). They absolutely do work, Grey's just grasping at shit and hoping something sticks.

Where did this post come from? I don't recall anyone mentioning anything on this matter previous (It is entirely possible I might of skimmed over it)

[Naomi-Tan]

114 leads me to believe cloudkicker is more concerned with being self-congratulatory than actually trying to prove they are town

More like, im playing for my wincon the way i want, i dont really care if you fos me but dont call say im playing bad town. At the end of the day, ill vote for scum and you might not

This post XD

[Naomi-Tan]

Btw the reason your not seeing me talk about the people who are dead is put simply We know there alignments and I do as well so... it kinda wouldn't be useful to work out my alignment.

And I don't need to work on theirs so I can just use it to reflect on you guys .

[Naomi-Tan]

How do associative tells not work? Like I know I've been gone for 8 months but how does the community just disregard an entire part of scumhunting? (Asking because this is something I've heard multiple times in like 2 days). They absolutely do work, Grey's just grasping at shit and hoping something sticks.

Where did this post come from? I don't recall anyone mentioning anything on this matter previous (It is entirely possible I might of skimmed over it)

Flubber's post two above it.

Cool I agree with flubbs. at that stage in the game there isn't really enough to go on. though it is a powerful red hunting tool in later stages (D2 // D3+) I feel that within the first 10 pages its effect is too minuscule to be used.

[Naomi-Tan]

Huh.. its like TF 2.0

[Naomi-Tan]

Btw the reason your not seeing me talk about the people who are dead is put simply We know there alignments and I do as well so... it kinda wouldn't be useful to work out my alignment.

And I don't need to work on theirs so I can just use it to reflect on you guys .

Actually, you've mentioned those dead far more than those alive.

Oh I have? I wasn't keeping count I was just commenting on things I saw.

[Naomi-Tan]

Btw the reason your not seeing me talk about the people who are dead is put simply We know there alignments and I do as well so... it kinda wouldn't be useful to work out my alignment.

And I don't need to work on theirs so I can just use it to reflect on you guys .

Actually, you've mentioned those dead far more than those alive.

Oh I have? I wasn't keeping count I was just commenting on things I saw.

I expect i'm not going into detail though.

[Naomi-Tan]

With current site meta your best bet really is to ignore scum reads on you unless there's something off on a really fundamental level

I don't like this statement it discourages conversation and exploration of alignments viva questioning. Though I must admit when the heat gets over a certain level I do vanish for a while to reset it if I make too many mistakes (as both alignments) though I always think first piroity should be discussion of a point before ignoring of a point.

[Naomi-Tan]

I'm sheep voting with you? I had no idea. My read on massive was utterly independent of yours.

Oh wait, you don't even have a read. Just an RVS vote.

whats your current view on flubs?

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: AJ

I'm going to have to agree with Kai after reading their accusation.

Gonna say Kai doesn't have a post that justifies your vote, and so far neither do you.

I'm guessing these two lines are independent, but it's also the only possible line that could give reasoning to your vote.

I'm not saying that you should flail all over the thread, but to engage people who're taking issue with your thought processes instead of pretending that they aren't there, then possibly make us aware of how you're reading these things.

Have any questions for me jin?

It sounds like you're obtusely encouraging jin to flail over the thread in this post

With current site meta your best bet really is to ignore scum reads on you unless there's something off on a really fundamental level

Current site meta is a myth. People have an individual meta, the game has it's own phases, but saying 'it's suddenly acceptable to be scummy as shit' defeats the entire purpose of the game. How the hell do you win a game when you rely on someone making a mistake that large?

Certainly even if such a thing did exist, 7 players have new accounts here (though I'm running on the assumption that Culted/Elhabe are alts) and I've missed 8 months of this meta. It's ridiculously inefficient to discount actual scumtells that we've used for years in the light of some fantasy where everyone is allowed to make them.

There is a thing here. its called the slayer gambit. you purposely make yourself look sorta red. not so red that the greens vote you outright but just red enough to bait overeager reds to vote for you with reasoning and then you turn the tables and say. No that wasn't a thing and snap shut the trap. This is a thing in the wiki. I did it once to quickly terminate a RVS. Its a highly risky manuver though cause if you fuck it up or reveal it wrong your just gonna end up being under a lot of heat forever. like CK it was a poorly executed one that wasn't designed to catch reds but show them as green which doesn't work the slayer gambits green credit comes from the oh snap and I see what you did there reactions. So yeah.. There is also site meta, which Is why I cover my ass with my meta-post as I go against meta as Green which makes it harder to get an alignment read. Though I can tell you my slayer gambit worked it was offsite so.. not on my wiki. I timed it to be just long enough that people just started to turn generally sour. didn't try to make it out like I was trying to be red to confirm myself as green lol either. CK's start was poorly executed.

[Naomi-Tan]

> Do not use proven randomness, like the dice tags.

LOL CK broke the rules on the first page XD

[Naomi-Tan]

Spoiler: Vanilla Townie Role PM
Hello (Player Name)!
You are a Vanilla Townie.

You have your voice and your vote. Use them wisely!
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
The game is here

Please confirm with your role name.

[Naomi-Tan]

Just quoting page 1 so I could find it (as I keep going back to check the player list. its hard to keep track with people talking)

[Naomi-Tan]

Just quoting page 1 so I could find it (as I keep going back to check the player list. its hard to keep track with people talking)

well not so much find it but jump to it after closing a batch of tabbs.

[Naomi-Tan]

Then what's it called when you're assuming someone's mafia and doing association from that? Is that confbias or just tunneling?

I call that roleplaying.

[Naomi-Tan]

193 is true
194 is true
195 is true
196 is true

[Naomi-Tan]

199 Is true

[Naomi-Tan]

200 Yeah... this feels like Green massive right here.

[Naomi-Tan]

Im not making fun of this agreeing thing any more the fact that it went into a discussion is very silly to me enough that I made fun of it.

[Naomi-Tan]

Unfos: Blackvoid

Fos: Flubber nugget

[Naomi-Tan]

other ppl who should be town from a gut reads are grey and hellooooo but needs more content

H-How did she even get this read on hello he had posted like 4 lines AURGH.

[Naomi-Tan]

Do i look like i give a shit, antagonize me more now youre 1 lynch away to get owned all game gratz

Im pretty sure this needs to die.

Why are you town?

[Naomi-Tan]

Sigh flipping backwards again.. I'm on page 10 now and well.. I'm seeing the slow motion explosion that is CK... its so greenie though... No way that kinda tantrum comes outta reds... I had Kairal as a green at the moment before that. but now... I'm just left with this burning curiousity. Kairal You've shown so far in what I read kinda high intelegnece you think about posts and try to help others and even tried to calm CK down... what happened to change your mind on their alignment? I think If I saw someone meltdown like that i'd be sure there green forever as its not a thing red do.

[Naomi-Tan]

Im getting too sleepy to think properly now so I don't think I'll read any more tonight. I go out friday as well... so.. I will likely not be around till a bit later tonight. I hope to get more read up tonight. might get to page 20.

[Naomi-Tan]

If you always read everyone who throws a tantrum as town you simply give scum incentive to fake tantrums. I have seen a game as I said where scum had a huge argument and replaced out over it.

yeah but arguments I understand CK was literally being a triggered baby. There must be more to it than that.

[Naomi-Tan]

All right, here I go!

I'm reading culted as Town. The vote for Secret Agent Jin in 41 and the reasoning given in 62 indicate an attempt to read alignment (is paying attention to why Secret Agent Jin is asking certain questions), and 57 looks like a good attempt to break up a fight between two players that culted reads as Town and focus on Secret Agent Jin instead.

CloudKicker and MiniDeathStar also both seem Town to me. My opinion of CloudKicker is mostly anchored in the "Town slip" business (mistaking the number of players in the game); I find it relatively unlikely that CloudKicker decides to fake this. I think that I have a good question that will help me be certain. My opinion of MiniDeathStar is mostly anchored in 154 and 155 (reconsidering the read on CloudKicker when many players seemed inclined to agree with MiniDeathStar rather than CloudKicker means forfeiting an easy opportunity to be on the "right" side--that is, the popular side--of an argument with a Town player unless both are Mafia, and I think that CloudKicker is unlikely to display such hostility to MiniDeathStar at this stage in the game if both are Mafia).

I'm undecided on Secret Agent Jin and have not much useful to say there at this time. My default would be to follow culted.

Flubbernugget is showing evidence of paying attention to details (75 looking at the VC, 135 paying attention to the reads that massive gives). Ordinarily I consider these things to indicate Town alignment and effort to solve the game; in this case I have a vague feeling that they don't conform to my previous experience with Flubbernugget as Town, so I will check that at some point to be certain.

I'm agreeing with Aj the Epic in 178 that the vote from Io in 166 doesn't seem to have a good reason for the vote. Also of importance to me is that the other major read that Io seems to have is that CloudKicker is Town, but she fails to make a meaningful attempt to interpret votes on that wagon (in particular, in 87 she declines to cast a vote despite having reasons to be suspicious of -Grey- and Kairal that are, as best as I can see,

stronger

than her reason for voting for Aj the Epic).

That's it for my first pass.

UNVOTE: CloudKicker
VOTE: Io

Holy cow this post pretty much mirrors my note pad.

POE

Green
culted
BlackVoid (By assoiation)
massive(200+
Dierfire (There reads entirely match my own and they went heavily in depth to their reasonons just like I like. love it!)

Null
Kairal (Though there read was green I dislike the fact that they have any kinda Red read on me after the CK tempure tantrum.)
HellloooNewman
I Am Innocent
Aj The Epic

Red

Flubbernugget
(Not really trusting there reaction to the slips)
(Stopping discussion by saying defending yourself is bad)
(Mudslinging blackvoid by saying they was sheeping when they wasn't given Flubs vote was RVS)

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay on page 10 I think I can set aside my reads and isolated my picks as red being within flubs, hello, I Am, and AJ

[Naomi-Tan]

You know when you say you'll stop.. and then you go one more post... that was many hours ago XD

[Naomi-Tan]

The only issue is HelloNewman has been dead for 2 days, and flipped town.

Yeah I was just checking his activity to see if he needed a prod and realised the mod didn't remove him from the alive player list

MOD: Please update the alive player list

[Naomi-Tan]

Now I really am taking a break. everyone enjoying my one girl show? As I rummage and relive moments past?

[Naomi-Tan]

It is interesting. There are a number of things that make me quite suspicious of you. For example you imply that you are reading from the start- so why do you ask Mini a question as if she's still in the game and then remove your Fos from her replacement, well before she replaces out (if you were actually still only on page 10). Seems rather inconsistent no?

I also find your confidence that you can make reads based on 10 pages of a 47 page game rather... odd.

Then there's your description of Cloud making a 'fake' slip.

Likewise if you're reading from the start why are you claiming VT already? Why do you need to post the VT role pm?

This all seems pretty weird to me and it's not like I was confident about either of your previous slots. As far as cloudkicker goes I used kid gloves because it was clear he was genuinely upset. I was trying to calm him down at that point- in no way did it mean I was getting a strong town read from him.

However your main scum read is on Flubber which is where I landed pretty recently. This is making me doubt my Flubber read somewhat. That means scum would be... culted Naomi and... one of my town reads.

Really not sure here. Maybe she's just reading the room and thinking it's time to bus Flubber? Or maybe she's planning to have an 'evolution' and move around to voting me instead?

I think I'll give Naomi a little more rope and continue voting Flubber for now

Hmm okay gonna tackle this before going back to reading so we can have discussion while I'm catching up.

why do you ask Mini a question as if she's still in the game:

Because I was sleepy at the time. There is no motivation for talking to a flower pot XD. BlackVoid please take that question as directed at yourself.

remove your Fos from her replacement, well before she replaces out:

Simple. I gave my reads and my Fos around page 5, by the time of my second read list Mini had posted lots of what i'd call pro-green post and given flubs did the whole sheeping mud sling at that peroid I went from a Red read to a green read. Thing with early game reads is there more influx and can change.

I also find your confidence that you can make reads based on 10 pages of a 47 page game rather... odd:

I made akin read lists around page 10 on most of my last 3 games as green. You may look that part up. I feel that I'm pretty good at finding greens. Though at page 10 won't be my 'final' reads thats just my reads as of page 12 (gonna shift up from 10 as the read list was posted off a page 12 post) I expect some flux as I sort after all there are a few unplaced and unknowns.

Then there's your description of Cloud making a 'fake' slip:

Yeah thats entirely my bad for not being definitive about which slip.

Likewise if you're reading from the start why are you claiming VT already:

You asked for a massclaim. I just did it as part of my reading. I also assumed there claim was already out there given people was suspicious.

The bottom part isn't directed at me but I can confirm that As im reading my view point may change as It does when you have like 75% of a game to read still. I'm just keeping you guys simi-kinda informed of my views If I was around at these times of the game

[Naomi-Tan]

However your main scum read is on Flubber which is where I landed pretty recently. This is making me doubt my Flubber read somewhat. That means scum would be... culted Naomi and... one of my town reads.

Why do you SR Culted?

[Naomi-Tan]

Oh.. Okay now I see why you'd still be suspicious. I thought CK was gonna explode much more than that before getting replaced. Though I agree with Grey here 315 Of course I would though so.. not sure if thats useful.

[Naomi-Tan]

I mean seriously, Gamma forcing someone out for simply playing suboptimally is ironic as all fuck when you consider how suboptimally he plays.

This however, I'm not in agreeance with. There is no way mini's slot is red IMO.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay SS has entered the game now. So.. now there will be no more CK

[Naomi-Tan]

I find it really humorous how many people are like "Kairal's behavior is so obvtown!" because all it reads to me is newbscum. Like, his partners are cringing in their heads thinking how they can ditch him. Kairal's "moving on" in 66 didn't make sense to me either. His explanation post is 119 which is after 99, and I didn't get to thinking about it until overnight. That whole time, though, I'm still thinking newbscum.

I am not remotely surprised that my scumspect is trying to cast doubt on what's becoming a universal town read.

The best part is Kairal's partners wondering how to ditch him when he's being townread by half the village.

Horsepucky, and you know it. I was asked a question about PAGE 2. I answer a question about PAGE 2. I have said at least once that my opinion of Kairal has changed. And yet you still want to front it as (a) Kairal is a universal town read and (b) me doing something sinister about it.

And yeah, the lady doth protest too much.

VOTE: MiniDeathStar

Ehhh... I don't like this push.

[Naomi-Tan]

Ah... given the first thing SS does Im not shocked the read of the slot slipped greatly over the course of his play. least if thats what I'm too expect.

PEDIT: I could but that would allow me to fake reactions and have a cause before effect situations. So I won't Like. for example. If I knew we had proven Innos I wouldn't get red reads on people when I should be doing so. (unless I think the cop is fake. Which I am trying to work out before knowing who the cop slots are) I'm sorry for spamming as I'm going but 45 pages of stuff Is a lot to catch up with. So... yeah. another example is I wouldn't of stated I was with grey here is I knew he then did a MDS or CK policy vote shortly after. given MDS is on my green list and therefore yourself.

[Naomi-Tan]

hey I have 45 pages to read over. If I add a good 3 or 4 to the pile its only good for greens. plus most of my posts are only a paragraph. So its not like reading huge theories.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay so here is my 5 step program.
Step 1. read upto present
Step 2. read Iso's of each alive player
Step 3. ?????
Step 4. Find and kill all the reds.
Step 5. Profit.

[Naomi-Tan]

I'm burning out again.. Stopping on page 17. XD

[Naomi-Tan]

This is actually my first game encountering an odd or even night cop. Is it weird to have both? It seems logical to me. I mean sure scum have to kill twice as many but each cop is only half as useful so it seems reasonable?

Aside from that why would massive claim it now? There's no way we have two so a counterclaim would definitely get him killed. We should still have today and tomorrow left at a minimum. Also while he's been scumread a lot throughout the game he wasn't getting a lot of pressure today really... it's not like it was a last ditch effort to save himself or anything.

I guess I don't really see the benefit for scum.

Since you're confirmed town I'd like to hear a bit more about why you think Flubber is a lock town. There's been quite a bit of suspicion on him including from your own slot.

well its not SO OP that its irrpluasable and as red you already know everyone's alignments and could even clear your buddies so it allows a lot of power.

[Naomi-Tan]

Overall, Odd/Even cop combos are insanely powerful, ESPECIALLY in a setup with a JK. The potential to keep a hidden JK protecting an odd/even cop on off nights is pretty high and it forces a double find by scum. I'd expect scum to have a lot of power in that case, but it's at least safe to assume they don't have a role blocker (since Newman would've survived night 1 then). IDK what else scum could get to counter that power swing... no vig means no scum doctor... I guess scum tracker? But like what's the point. Encryptor, I guess, but even that's a weak answer to double cop JK.

Oh if we have a JK I think the likely hood of a Double cop extremely unlikely. as even with encryptor, strongman and Rolecop I think it would still kinda favour Green. The thing is Though on the surface it looks like a normal cop. from a red presepective its a double cop as they need to kill two over one. which makes it kinda strong.. think about what would happen if the two didn't claim till now. We'd have 3 confirmed from cops and possibly 3 confirmed off JK which is madness.

[Naomi-Tan]

So how far along are the catch ups? Also I think Dierfire and Culted have been out for a while...

I stalled on page 17 I didn't get much sleep last night and its hard to focus right now. I was planning to make a start and reach page 20 today.

[Naomi-Tan]

@MOD: Can I request a 24 hour extension for me and the other replacement to catch up? as not a lot is happening while we're reading up and 45pages + is a LOT of text.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay guys I'm getting to the point that I don't feel my reads are going to change very much. May I have the cop results and who the cop was and what nights.

[Naomi-Tan]

I just want to point out that if i randomly voted a bunch and got heat and votes for it then said it was random and meaningless i would be called scum and lynched.

[Naomi-Tan]

My concern is not for whether you and CK are the same alignment, MDS, nor for whether the mod was correct in replacing CK for his actions. My concern is for the amount of time and effort you put into getting people to NOT LOOK AT IT, to ignore it, to claim it's NAI, and THAT is what makes me say "the lady doth protest too much." Which is, in all honesty, what "protest" MEANS. And how, of course, me "doubling down" has no actual link to factual in-thread posts. You tried. You failed.

just tackling this part'
My concern is not for whether you and CK are the same alignment - Being the same alignment would mean you could confirm one from the other. this as green would mean one less person to find or one less person to suspect (depending on red or green flip) So it would be something you would want to find out as green.

I would of covered the second part but it kinda confused me as it felt like two conflicting things. So.. yeah..

[Naomi-Tan]

No no no, massive, sorry but you don't get to backpedal on that now. You very clearly stated it right here:

You'd have to start with explaining how scum-CK voting town-MDS is playing against his wincon.

and this is why I'm playing by post XD If I read this after. I wouldn't of said that last thingy.

[Naomi-Tan]

Oh no, I thought I'd placed Flub at the top of the orange section and you interpreted him as my top scumread. I don't actually care that much to sort people *within* each category, just to sort them in categories.

Thanks Kairal. ♥

Im doing kinda the same thing where I have people in groups based on my thought on them.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay Im on page 20 and should explain something about how I form reads as I only noticed it over this read over that I never noticed it before. So.. the longer the game goes on the harder it becomes to shift my veiw on things.. so between each of these big read landmark points my reads have less and less veriantion as I find things more and more mounting up so its twice as hard to shift my read between 1-5 as it is between 5-10 and twice as hard again from 10-20 and so on. right now I feel that I have my reads kinda cemented. though I will threw I am in the boat of feeling pretty comfertable with my list being where it is. So without futher ado I will now compile and explain my reads at the start of PG20

culted - So far there posts have looked and examined things in depth. they explain there points and push there red reads with conviction but are not byond talking with both others and the target to work out the alignment of the person in question. They also appear to have had quite a busy season so had posts less often as the game progressed. this also makes sense for someone getting demoralized. I do not think there playing lurky red though as when they return they always do with a nice bit of content and covering stuff they wish to (kinda like i've done)

Blackvoid - other than that they was pushed poorly by flubber and massive. both of which I'm red reading and that the mod confirmed (in my mind) that we're the same alignment I am sure there town. Oh yeah and they also have excellent content and have beed red hunting pretty consistantly all game so I don't think there gonna flip red for all those reasons

Kairal - though they had a rocky start I feel there content really picked up after the start of the game and they kept the momtum going and even now they are still looking and examining things explaning there reads not only to those there pushing but the others as well. additionally there are a few stand out moments. such as stepping up to protect someone from a red push when they didn't need to. which though could be white knighting I seriously dobut thats the case given how much content they have been produceing upto the halfway mark.

diefire - though they are busy a lot I agree with most there views It seems entirely likely to me there green as there reads though given rarely have a lot when there given and has trended towards my own thoughts at the time of their posting which makes me feel like they are thinking and considering the game in the same kinda style I do.

Aj The Epi - Good content as the game when on. I can't think of any note worthy wow moments but I think they have given about the same ammount of effort threwout the game and have been concidering and trying to solve the game. not as strong read as the ones above and my last nullish with green hints.

Okay and now who I personally suspect as being the red pool

I Am Innocent - I can't remember anything note worthy from this person at all. Thats how little they stand out I regard them as a lurky red and only in red cause poe I don't think they are putting in enough effort to join the green list above.

massive - Has had some terrible pushes selecting people who are obviously green and trying to make them out to be red. He also has only said someone is green once. my slot back in the mid 100's (bare in mind this is upto 475) If someone was trying to sort green from red I think there would at least be 2 or 3 green reads by the time nearly 500 posts was up or given our group at least 3 or 4.

Flubbernugget
(Not really trusting there reaction to the slips) I'm not going into this one but I'll leave my raw note here
(Stopping discussion by saying defending yourself is bad) I think I commented on this one ealier
(Mudslinging blackvoid by saying they was sheeping when they wasn't given Flubs vote was RVS) and this
Those was my top 3 notable notes. (ones I wrote down because omg) Other than those there general pushes have been bad//weak. they don't post very often (upto page 20) and when they do its about the same number of line I been making on my catchup posts without the supplementary large posts that come every now and then.

There may be some coordination between My two biggest red reads but I don't think its strong enough to really hold up. things like both of them pressuring MDS at about the same time and both of them Town read my slot.

Additionally much like Massive they don't give many Town reads. the above mentioned thing being the only thing of note Pre-475.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay guys I'm getting to the point that I don't feel my reads are going to change very much. May I have the cop results and who the cop was and what nights.

Newman was odd cop, died night one. massive has claimed even cop, checked Black void night 2 (town result).

Now see here comes my issue. Blackvoid is in creditable Green. Everyone here was calling that D1 other than Massive (and I'm not sure if his read changes D2 so I'll keep an eye open for that now)

So my problem is as follows;

If Massive Is green I have to speculate that one of the following people has to be red; Culted, kairal, diefire, or AJ and I just can't see this as being true.

[Naomi-Tan]

Ignore reads on me = not crying when I'm scum read

Not only am I scum hunting you right now, I started the massive wagon too

Wait what? No. I would of noticed. Oh OH yeah that whole BS! Your Random Vote Stage Vote Does Not Count As Starting A Wagon!

[Naomi-Tan]

Massive, I would like your read on cloudkicker. I see your 94 as not reading them as town, yet your 95 votes for someone else for *reasons*

And my vote is staying on you.

look at how random my vote is everyone

LOOK AT IT

Thats not your Vote post and is literally your only interaction directly (and subsequent conversations on the topic). You may have turned your joke vote into a semi-serious vote. but thats not really starting a wagon. Your barely even pushing :/

[Naomi-Tan]

it's not like I even care who started the wagon. It just boggles me why you keep bringing it up

[Naomi-Tan]

You voted him during the RVS with no bloody evidence and you still credit yourself with "starting his wagon".

Like, it's not like I even care who started the wagon. It just boggles me why you keep bringing it up, as if you're trying to squeeze out some town credit in case he flips scum.

Is it because you *know* he is scum?

Yes, I was making the first accusations on him. You're accusing me of not scumhunting when I began voting him for the same reason you did later

Also, you blatantly lied. And it shows that you thought you would get away with it because you're AGAIN trying to handwave when I began to have an actual scumread on massive.

I hate the way he's twisting words here.

[Naomi-Tan]

Yes, I was making the first accusations on him. You're accusing me of not scumhunting when I began voting him for the same reason you did later

Also, you blatantly lied. And it shows that you thought you would get away with it because you're AGAIN trying to handwave when I began to have an actual scumread on massive.

Tbh you have a point. You *were* scumhunting, lackluster as it was. It's just, the fact all your posts look pretty much the same, and the fact you never actually gave reads or overarching analysis on anybody, makes it very difficult to see the actual scumhunting from you.

But yeah, your defence makes more sense now.

UnFOS: Flubbernugget

Looks like I'm the second townie to notice that XD

[Naomi-Tan]

Well its blatantly obvious to me who scum is, ill give you a hint, its flubber. He doesnt take much interest in the game until he feels he can strike at an opportune time and argue his way into getting a player lynched. He also, like Massive, doesnt really explain much. He also is just pointing fingers at MDS and pushing the points she is making aside. Its sort of like when you argue with your parents and they say "That doesnt matter, listen to me, i am the parent" he is just deflecting what she says with minimal effort.

[Naomi-Tan]

Even without massive's claim I was pretty sure he and Flubber couldn't be a team. Remember that in Day 1 there's a fairly lengthy period where massive is the frontrunner votewise. Flubber stayed on him like glue all of day 1. I don't believe a scum teammate would be very likely to do so. Not saying it's impossible because I did see a scum player do that recently. It's pretty risky play though. He could have tried to push the wagon to Io or Newman but never did. That is a pretty hardcore bus if it is one.

yeah but despite being on them They didn't really push there was a total of one thing he brought up and other than that it was just sorta left to sit. I also read that interaction between massive and flubber as distancing more than anything and given there reads have been in alignment from my iso so far why would you find the person agreeing with you suspicious? especially if there not doing it loudly giving there own little flawed small reasons for it.

[Naomi-Tan]

stopping at top of 22

[Naomi-Tan]

stopping at top of 22

For now XD

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi's pushing Flubber hard. By PoE they're probably both scum. The question is whether this is a plausible bus?

My read of the room is that today's lynch is probably not gonna be anyone other than Naomi, culted or Flubber. The only other push really is massive on me. If I'm right that Naomi, culted and flubber are all scum then surely they'd push for me instead? I mean Naomi has left room to move to a lynch on me so I guess she could later.

The more likely explanation is that one of Flubber and Naomi aren't scum. culted is currently voting Naomi (and was doing so before she replaced out).

Yeah I think it's more likely that Flubber and culted are scum and Naomi is town. The third would have to be Aj, Dier or IamI.

I think it's unlikely to be IamI given the way those Jin votes came out. So it's Dier or Aj and I'm guessing AJ- he's also voting for Naomi which lines up with my scum team theory...

Well anyway these associatives are dumb. The point here is that most scum teams I can think of include culted and flubber but, tentatively, I'm not sure Naomi fits with them.

I am confirm as of right now I have no intent of pushing you and if your content remains consistent post page 22 Im pretty certain that won't change. You may been one of my later reads but I been Green reading you for at least 12 pages. (though I don't have my notes the precise time)

[Naomi-Tan]

Even without massive's claim I was pretty sure he and Flubber couldn't be a team. Remember that in Day 1 there's a fairly lengthy period where massive is the frontrunner votewise. Flubber stayed on him like glue all of day 1. I don't believe a scum teammate would be very likely to do so. Not saying it's impossible because I did see a scum player do that recently. It's pretty risky play though. He could have tried to push the wagon to Io or Newman but never did. That is a pretty hardcore bus if it is one.

yeah but despite being on them They didn't really push there was a total of one thing he brought up and other than that it was just sorta left to sit. I also read that interaction between massive and flubber as distancing more than anything and given there reads have been in alignment from my iso so far why would you find the person agreeing with you suspicious? especially if there not doing it loudly giving there own little flawed small reasons for it.

Hmm I see what you're saying that they both spent a lot of time on Mini. It's definitely silly that Flubber tried to propose a scum team of Mini and massive. They spent a long time going at each other. I guess the advantage of massive's approach is that he makes a lot of enemies- hard to see him on a scum team with quite a few players.

Anyway massive is cop so it's not possible for them to be a team.

Cop claim can still be a fabrication. sure it was a risk but I dunno how it came out. if they was close to flip I could see it as a viable roleclaim as you would be screwed in a CC case, and without a CC your ass is saved and given there target last night it makes less sense. However, I feel massive isn't pirioity if I was red and he was green you know I'd be killing him before he gets chance to confirm another player. Else your just making your life even harder (especially concidering tommorow is LYLO) If on the other hand he is red I'd expect them to live and get a positive red find tomorrow. on someone who is low on the list (me if we some how Lynch a non-red) (or the person most pushing my lynch and pretty low in town respect if I die) And then its game.

If the roleclaim came out at the start of today. I can see it as preplanned setting up my slot or AJ's for tomorrow.

[Naomi-Tan]

Yeah I get what you're saying about the cop claim. However 1) the roleclaim came quite late in the day. Like 8 days or more iirc. 2) massive had one vote on him at the time 3) he's an even night cop so he doesn't get to deliver any verdicts tomorrow.

This means that he can't use the claim to influence lylo if it is tomorrow, he wasn't removing an heat from himself and he didn't do it early. Moreover IamI suggests very early in the day that there's probably an even cop and specifically says he thinks they should wait till near the end of the day to reveal. This means that if scum massive was using it as a claim he couldn't be sure that a real even cop wasn't just waiting a little longer before revealing. Also the one verdict he did provide is a town read on someone who was in no danger of being lynched today either.

Basically it's a gambit that provides little advantage, and has a huge risk. It just doesn't make sense for scum.

Okay then the next logical step is; why did they claim if not under pressure. given Cop is a very powerful role and given how many people was suspicious of him D1 why wouldn't he sit on the information until he got a red. Was MDS about to flip? cause other than that he was just exposing himself for no reason.

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi's pushing Flubber hard. By PoE they're probably both scum. The question is whether this is a plausible bus?

My read of the room is that today's lynch is probably not gonna be anyone other than Naomi, culted or Flubber. The only other push really is massive on me. If I'm right that Naomi, culted and flubber are all scum then surely they'd push for me instead? I mean Naomi has left room to move to a lynch on me so I guess she could later.

The more likely explanation is that one of Flubber and Naomi aren't scum. culted is currently voting Naomi (and was doing so before she replaced out).

Yeah I think it's more likely that Flubber and culted are scum and Naomi is town. The third would have to be Aj, Dier or IamI.

I think it's unlikely to be IamI given the way those Jin votes came out. So it's Dier or Aj and I'm guessing AJ- he's also voting for Naomi which lines up with my scum team theory...

Well anyway these associatives are dumb. The point here is that most scum teams I can think of include culted and flubber but, tentatively, I'm not sure Naomi fits with them.

ROFL so what about you then? You're over there stating people who vote Naomi are scum but you were just casting suspicion on Shadow yourself. Sure you didn't vote, but even after Naomi's replacement, you have Naomi listed as scum with Culted/Flubber, and Dier/Myself/IAI as town. Why all of the sudden are all three of the last set possible scum and naomi your sudden town read?

Extend

To be frank CK was laughably bad and Shadow, not much better. So far my entrance has had more posts than either of them and more reads and information than I expect shadow put out (assuming his performance stays at the level I observed so far.

[Naomi-Tan]

Yes but you won't stop ahmished telling.

whats that?

[Naomi-Tan]

Where you basically call out your past slot owners on their own bad play and try to distance yourself from what they're doing. It's basically confessing they had anti-town motives.

Who's confessing anti-town motives. like CK was replaced for not playing to her win con and the other guy had 28 posts which so far on my end consist of calling the person pushing Ck's madness sore butt hurt red as they didn't get a ml and then a few posts of nothing. Like I just Iso'd shadow as part of this post and my last read list alone has more words and more about my view than his entire stretch in this slot. Do you really blame me for wanting to distance myself from bad play. they may of been doing there best but after CK's performance Shadow needed to be vocal needed to act not be passive.

[Naomi-Tan]

It's your slot, regardless of their play you should be able to see the motivation behind it because you know everything they do. I replace in a lot. Recently replaced in (finished game, Nhadia's Trial of the Evoker) for some idiot who claimed he was passively a role reflector and got caught in a lie by a fucking mail-man spell. Yeah, that's bad play. However I can't exactly be like "yeah my predecessor is a moron ignore everything he said" because A.) It's my slot and it's still my responsibility and B.) he was town with a RB role so you at least have to understand he was trying to dodge a NK.

Look I don't care who i'm replacing bad play is bad play. Its not red play. Like yeah If I was green and saw Shadows entrance i'd jumped on that wagon. Really though From an objectively neutral view point we had a person who had a temper tantrum over nothing followed by Shadow, which looks like saying nothing and lurking from my quick skim (seriously he must of written 2 paragraphs and the rest are one liners)

[Naomi-Tan]

I haven't replaced into a game but out of curiosity if you replaced into CK's spot and he was town... what would you say about his play?

I'm not sure how this question would be useful.

As red I'm not sure I'd mentioned much at all just sorta moved onto it and read up but only commented after reading and probs only a handful of things as it makes my trail and though process harder to pinn down giving me some wiggle room. maybe like 1-3 lines on each active player but yeah.

[Naomi-Tan]

Oh okay. Carry on then XD.

[Naomi-Tan]

I feel as though Naomi isn't telling the truth when she acts like she didn't know Neman/Grey/Jin were dead

Okay I dislike this comment for the following 2 reasons; Firstly The only person I didn't know was dead and included in my read lists was newman. Who was removed upon you pointing it out and the reason they was thought as alive was beacuse I copied the alive player list to my note pad and they haddn't been removed at the time (thus my comment)

Secondly you imply that I was including more dead people in my big read lists than I was.

I haven't replaced into a game but out of curiosity if you replaced into CK's spot and he was town... what would you say about his play?

A few issues I have specifically with this (because yeah, it's pretty common to be frustrated with a replace-in slot [see above: rarely ever viewed as protown]) is Naomi's claim that she does a lot of LAMIST. Yeah, we've seen that. However, CK did the same thing and when we're talking about an ahmished tell, I'd expect that part to bother her a lot less considering these two have very similar play in many aspects concerning how they carry themselves.

You may think our play styles are closer but that doesn't change the fact she did really dumb things. You'd have to be silly to think that her play wasn't bad. heck the mod replaced her for not playing to her wincon!

[Naomi-Tan]

. Jin's dead and flipped green, making the opinion potentially 'more impactful' to us because we know his alignment. But in the same breath, it's caused Naomi to do nothing more than agree with it instead of offering her own arguments

Lost a quote.

Okay so. If someone makes the same argument you'd made I shouldn't agree with them? like they have valuable points that I agree with and I wasn't even around to post to join in at that time. Like.. I can't time travel... So.. this is the best thing I CAN do.

Additionally making my suspicions clear has been kept to a handful of posts where I do explain my issues and why I think there red while your statement makes it look like I am not writing anything original and thats just not true.

[Naomi-Tan]

Hmm I see. I think you have a pretty good argument about her selective re-read. I think she intends her reading to be a clear sign of town. However it seems to me it would be very easy to simply read scum chat to know what her allies are planning and use that to inform her reread.

I'm not really townreading her... I just think she's probably not on a team with culted and flubber. I'm not really sure who her team mates would be. It would have to be two people I'm townreading: Aj, Dier and IamI. Not impossible but it seems less likely.

This isn't something you can defend. As there is no legal way to confirm your town as VT.

[Naomi-Tan]

3

Why just fos kai and not vote him?

Well I don't know where the Vote count is and I don't feel right voting without being read up. As things people do make you think and reconsider.

[Naomi-Tan]

I am confirm as of right now I have no intent of pushing you and if your content remains consistent post page 22 Im pretty certain that won't change. You may been one of my later reads but I been Green reading you for at least 12 pages. (though I don't have my notes the precise time)

Hmm.

What did you see that changed from your initial impressions up to page 12?

Im guessing you mean in reference to Kairal. Their content stepped up. at page 5 (125 posts in) they had only really made a few one line statements and a series of tripple posts at the very tip. Post that point we had a lot of good discussion which helped me make my green read after. Posts like this one;

Sheeping discussion. Personally I've never really understood the concept. The whole reason I make arguments is in order to persuade people. I want them to go 'Oh that's a convincing argument that X is scum, so I'll vote for them too'. To me sheeping seems like successful persuasion. On the other hand last game scum did blatantly use my argument, everyone else called them out for it and lynched them. So it seems it is a scumtell. It's a weird thing that's for sure.

Anyway right now we have 2 votes on AJ (from Massive and Io) and I don't see any reasoning provided for either. Mind explaining? Personally I looked through his ISO and he looks fine to me. By which I mean he has a reasonable number of posts and doesn't seem afraid to create solid interactions with people, and is actively creating content. Now sure my reads are often poop as previously established but if you post persuasive arguments as to why he should be lynched maybe I'll vote him too :p.

As red you'd have no real reason to make people out to be less red for easily ML's So it makes sense to me that their Red.

[Naomi-Tan]

To that end culted repeatedly fits the pattern of someone with the appropriate timing for scum. His activity is good in the beginning- once it becomes clear that scum are winning handily his activity drops. His reads line up with Flubber (on Jin specifically) but he frequently tries to avoid mentioning him. When he does he's always convinced he's town, a read which I'm not sure anyone else in town has. Right after I say I'm not sure culted is scum because the best path for scum right now is to try and lynch me, he jumps into the thread with a crappy scum read on me. He continues to try and throw doubt on a cop claim with no counter. Incidentally if IamI was trying to set up a massive claim why does he specifically tell the cop not to reveal soon? Surely that's the exact opposite of what he and massive would need?

None of this is a smoking gun but it all adds up.

Incidentally Flubber has a post in caps where he makes it clear the word he used was pathetic, not apathetic. I'm not quite sure why you two are both misreading that.

I dislike this post. For the sheer reason that this game travelled over the holiday season and around that time of year everyone gets more busy with IRL stuff so there would be a drop of activity for either alignment.

[Naomi-Tan]

3.) The reveal was pointless. At no pressure to lynch either MDS or Massive, he reveals cop?

Thanks for repeating my issue with it (Or what I was trying to establish) Now whos the one copying.

[Naomi-Tan]

1) How do we know they don't have an RB? Without any flips we have no way of knowing what scum do or don't have.

2) How is this beneficial to scum massive? He'd obviously prefer to produce a 'guilty' result on lylo to get a win.

3) If he waited past today it'd be lylo and it would become hard to believe. Scum could counterclaim and make it a 50/50 (and generally I'd say people will lynch the original claimaint rather than the counter)

But really why risk dying (given that he can't be sure we don't actually have an even cop) for the benefit of... clearing two people who weren't likely to be lynched today anyway. As you note there was no pressure.

As it stands though all he did (going off what AJ said) was set himself up to be shot. No one was suspecting MDS and though Massive has had heat over the days it benefits a town PR such as cop to wait to be forced to claim (at L-1) but given the situation it doesn't make sense to me to not hold back.

[Naomi-Tan]

Welp... Its official I'm getting paranoid about AJ being red. Reading 526 and all Im thinking of is how he is pushing me in the present with things I don't like and defending my red reads in the past.

[Naomi-Tan]

Welp... Its official I'm getting paranoid about AJ being red. Reading 526 and all Im thinking of is how he is pushing me in the present with things I don't like and defending my red reads in the past.

You know what no. Its just paranoia Aj is still probs green.

[Naomi-Tan]

As red you'd have no real reason to make people out to be less red for easily ML's So it makes sense to me that their Red.

What drives me nuts about Naomi is she has no attention to what she's saying. She said the above explaining her town read on Kairal. Unfortunately it says he's "red" which in her parlance means he's scum. Is this another dumb scumslip and they're partners, or is this just sloppy? I'm gun shy now because I've attacked her in the past for sloppy stuff like this and she was town. But I also feel like she isn't going to pay better attention unless she suffers continuously for it.

Oh yeah Good typo catch. Well the former statement obviously is referencing something there not doing in the selected post. So yeah. I meant green.

[Naomi-Tan]

[quote=Newman]

Unvote Cloud/Shadow

Vote MDS

[/quote]

Not sure if your reading along still but; USE A COLON!

Seriously. Its how I search for votes and things said to a mod. as there included with the automatic taggs. VOTE: and UNVOTE: not without the colon

[Naomi-Tan]

Unvote Cloud/Shadow

Vote MDS

Not sure if your reading along still but; USE A COLON!

Seriously. Its how I search for votes and things said to a mod. as there included with the automatic taggs. VOTE: and UNVOTE: not without the colon

EBWODP -_-

[Naomi-Tan]

As red you'd have no real reason to make people out to be less red for easily ML's So it makes sense to me that their Red.

What drives me nuts about Naomi is she has no attention to what she's saying. She said the above explaining her town read on Kairal. Unfortunately it says he's "red" which in her parlance means he's scum. Is this another dumb scumslip and they're partners, or is this just sloppy? I'm gun shy now because I've attacked her in the past for sloppy stuff like this and she was town. But I also feel like she isn't going to pay better attention unless she suffers continuously for it.

I remember that game but not much from yourself. Vediths barrage that broke me is the only thing that stands out in my mind about that game.

[Naomi-Tan]

I think the other thing that REALLY irritates me about the flubbs // massive thing is how flubbs had their vote on massive all of Day 1 (or at least upto where I am located) and had multiple oppertunities to push what they felt was there red read (if their green and massive is either alignment) but didn't. but also they didn't push there miss lynch, (if their red and massive is green) Which leads me to the odd conclusion that they know each others alignments.

Okay Let me make this a bit clearer by running threw all 4 situations

• [Green Flubs, Green Massive] Not knowing the alignment of massive and thinking there red, they would pick up and push things as they happen with the rest of Green

•[Green Flubs, Red Massive] Not knowing the alignment of massive and thinking there red, they would pick up and push things as they happen with the rest of Green

•[Red Flubs, Green Massive] Wanting a miss lynch they push whenever they think they can get away with it. pushing softly and edging them out.

•[Red Flubs, Red Massive] Voting them for distance but not really putting heart into lynching them as you want them alive.

[Naomi-Tan]

@MOD: Flubs hasn't posted in over 2 days

[Naomi-Tan]

Now associative tells are cool and all but they require a flip

I think I just did an associative tell without a flip..

[Naomi-Tan]

That being said (as I've highlighted already) Saj is doing very little

That's kind of part of his meta on Day 1.

I assume you mean his town meta? How is his scum meta different?

As of this post, my top 3 scum reads are Jin, IO, & Newman.

How did i get lumped in your scumreads? Is there reasoning?

Cause I'm a good scum hunter and you are apparently bad as scum.

Can everybody take note of this when i flip Town? Lynch this with fire.

`

As they requested we take note I thought I'd repost.

[Naomi-Tan]

Io, ignoring that for now, what are your thoughts on the massive/Newman/Flub situation?

Well situation implies they are connected which they certainly aren't.

Newman's town but the scummiest of the group solely, not that he had other content, from the push that the only way Cloud could have been replaced is if he was Mafia hard bussing. His reason for the initial tunnel was also pretty trash with it just being that he claimed scum which no one should even take seriously. The other part of his scum read of Cloud that they were overly pushing the town slip was OK and a valid argument I think. The reason I think he's not scum pushing for 2 mislynches, as he's pushing to lynch both of you, is just because of how genuine he is in the push itself. He is stubborn, but not scum.

Flubber I just don't really know about to be honest. He shares no read with me, and was very quick to town read AJ who I think is scum. Leaning scum though which would make me think Massive is town because he's done a few quick jabs on him, 2 and the RVS.

Side note, I'm not even that confident you are town either. I'm getting the Aj & Culted scum team vibe with wither Mini or Flubber
Culted just really doesn't ever talk about AJ unless it was asking me to explain the AJ scum read, which Culted also said that other people asked so I don't see why Culted would have felt the need to talk about it. Then the only times he talked about you was at the very beginning asking for a read, something which I personally just notice a lot of scum do to partners they feel wont be too active or slightly scummy, then later on the talked about you and Flubber being TvT which is what is making me think one of you are scum. Culted is mostly a slight scum read for the lack of interactions with my stronger scum read and their overly nice behavior also just kind of feels disgenuine.
Honestly though I'm more confident that AJ and Culted are a scum team than you Mini. That's mostly because you're play style right now is basically mimicking how you played in 658, and it's not like I really disagree with you a ton. Though you and Culted do look pretty buddyey right now.

And yet your strong scum read has no explanation backing it and you haven't addressed your own blunder (the 'time traveler' issue). Your entire scum/town read is based on an idea that I'm scum, who you've yet to give a reason for in 400 in-game posts. Now associative tells are cool and all but they require a flip, and you're so very far off base to begin with that you've drawn up three additional possible scum reads with no flip and no stated reason on why you think I'm scum. You've already called out an entire group to lynch through, day 1, no flips on 'associative tells'.

Also your post serves to have another contradiction. In the first line, you state Newman is the scummiest of the group, but town. Then you state Flubber is scum, who was part of the three in the first group. Actually through your entire post, you waffle on this scum/town read on Flubber. You don't have a definitive opinion on him, and basically go from town to scum in all the shades of the rainbow in one post.

Lastly, burden of proof's on you to EXPLAIN some of this. You've got some reads that are unpopular. Really, as I've stated, this starts with you explaining why I'm scum, and then showing interactions if associative tells are really your only shows altogether.

I don't even know how to break up that post so I'll just do it in points.
"Haven't addressed why you are scum" - You lack reading comprehensions skills.
"Time traveler" - are you like high and making up terms right now?
"no stated reason on why you think I'm scum." - 'cuz you don't actually read any of my posts for some reason.
"In the first line, you state Newman is the scummiest of the group, but town." - Literally not a contradiction, you read the first line then stopped. If you would have bothered to continue reading you would have seen the explanation as to why he is bad and why the only scummy thing he did was tunnel.
"You don't have a definitive opinion on him" - Slight scum
"Lastly, burden of proof's on you to EXPLAIN some of this." - Which I did.
'You've got some reads that are unpopular." - That's not a reason to scum read that's called actually bothering to look at someone without just sheeping the crowd.
"Really, as I've stated, this starts with you explaining why I'm scum" - I did and you chose to ignore them.

Given this post I'm entirely sure I'm just being paranoia about AJ as he pulled a thing back here sorta like what happened now and I think its just more his 'style' than anything else.

[Naomi-Tan]

Read through the first 5 pages. More later.
When is the deadline?

ÀURGH.
how does it take someone 4 days to read 5 pages including the RVS section!

[Naomi-Tan]

Read through the first 5 pages. More later.
When is the deadline?

ÀURGH.
how does it take someone 4 days to read 5 pages including the RVS section!

Seriously like I read that in my first day at the end of the night and commented on some notable stuff AND comprised a preliminary read list! Omg..

[Naomi-Tan]

@MOD: Was shadow replaced for not playing into his win con too? I have to know seriously

[Naomi-Tan]

Scum can be paranoid. They have to worry about looking town. If anything town aren't paranoid because you don't need to fake looking town.

I think this is a legit scumslip because town doesn't need to even think about looking town, let alone worry about how they can fake it.

Looking town is something that comes solely from a scum mindset.

Io basing their paranoia argument on looking town instead of reading scum is scum-driven.

VOTE: Io

I hope this isn't the day 1 flip train I'm seeing here. I disagree with greys use of semantics. but there both dead players. just thought I'd chime in here encase someone wanted to question me on it.

[Naomi-Tan]

Unless someone else wasn't removed from the players alive list that I am considering as alive still. yes. I've made comments on dead people if I feel there posts was imporant or bared repeating. but I have kept them out of read lists.


PEDIT: Oh I see what you did there. Yeah that was just me sharing my thoughts in that post. More content is never a bad thing, especially when it shows your thoughts.

[Naomi-Tan]

5/6 Extensions (Me, Kairal, AJ, IaI, Black Void)

They argument is entirely weak, but I'm totally holding the fact massive and cult didn't vote extension against them. (My reads remain unchanged on them both.)

[Naomi-Tan]

Im just gonna put this out there as Im thinking it right now; this game entirely hinges on me and flubbs. If flubbs is Town then my push so far today will result in my misslynch in Lylo I believe. and If i'm killed today Flubbs will be the next logical lynch choice. So if flubbs is green I think the red team has won.

[Naomi-Tan]

[quote="In post 663, massive"]My new favorite Mafia phrase is "adjacent reasoning."[/quote
whats adjacent reasoning

[Naomi-Tan]

I think i'll take a break again on top of page 28.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay guys. I think most of us are in agreement at a flubbs lynch is an okay thing. we may disagree on me or massive being the bigger one but I think we could for now all settle on middle ground and then use his flip to determine mine and massives alignments for Lylo.

[Naomi-Tan]

As red you'd have no real reason to make people out to be less red for easily ML's So it makes sense to me that their Red.

The last line doesn't make any sense.

Your correct, Massive picked up on that the correct thing it should say is;

As red you'd have no real reason to make people out to be less red for easily ML's So it makes sense to me that their

Green

This is why it makes no sense. My apologies.

[Naomi-Tan]

@mod

I'm almost certain that vc is wrong.

What I'd like to do now is figure out exactly why there's so much resistance to a kai lynch.
And why everyone in the game is lock-scum on flubber.

I can explain my red flubs read if you would like. But I wish for you to request it so I know this isn't directed at Kairal

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi would you vote kairal?

No, she falls outside my red pool. right now. My red pool is Flubbs, Massive and IaI in that order. IaI currently lies in my POE slot. As the only remaining person who I don't feel is playing a strong Green game.

Additionally I won't be voting anyone until I've caught up as I feel only knowing part of the game is not helpful or constructive to victory and you cannot make good judgements with only half the story. You may take my FoS on Flubbs as intention to vote once I caught up assuming nothing changes

[Naomi-Tan]

When did you have a scumread on I am?

And you're not caught up yet?!

No i'm not. I'm on page 28/45 so it looks kinda like this;

███████████████████████████

██████████████████

█████████████

Where the red bit if the unread part of the game.

[Naomi-Tan]

When did you have a scumread on I am?

And you're not caught up yet?!

No i'm not. I'm on page 28/45 so it looks kinda like this;

███████████████████████████

██████████████████

█████████████

Where the red bit if the unread part of the game.

EDBWODP

part of the game thats unread.

As for when I got a Red IaI read its more of a slot filler. See from my perspective If its not IaI then it would have to be one of my Green reads. consisting of; culted, BlackVoid, Kairal, Dierfire or Aj The Epi

Aj was my final Green read. If IaI is green then I'd look to them next. but I'm not willing to hunt for my last slot. Flubs and massive I have red reads on. while everyone is is somewhere null and above. The last slot is IaI based solely on lack.

[Naomi-Tan]

UNVOTE: Naomi-Tan

Wait

Well, one of my recent games had a red encryptor and a strongman and rolecop is just one of those defacto roles when I think of reds. I was just pulling 3 red poweroles from the top of my head.

[Naomi-Tan]

Right I'm heading to sleep shortly I hope to tackle a bit more tomorrow.

If Massive is Green "then it would have to be one of my Green reads. consisting of; culted, BlackVoid, Kairal, Dierfire or Aj The Epi" As it stands I doubt that any of those players are Red given each has shown traits I assositate with Green play. Defending those you have a green read on, Examining what people are saying and forming views that your vocal about, and analysis of other peoples reads and asking questions // starting discussions. Being reasonably active enough to be involved in all the major pushes (IRL not withstanding) and having Town reads not only red reads that their willing to talk about if questioned by others.

So yeah. not sure if everyone has shown the traits off the top of my head, but I have most people in the top half who I feel are doing those things.

[Naomi-Tan]

I thought that the role and result claimed by massive made sense with earlier play.

HellloooNewman claims in 805, and the next post from massive is a vote for HellloooNewman (838).
That and the progression of the read on MiniDeathStar corroborate the claim well enough to satisfy me.

I am upto 675 and cannot colaborate on activity after that point and before the page I joined my Apologies.

[Naomi-Tan]

Grey is playing in a way that makes his intentions ambiguous and that needed to be highlighted

Im counting this as a mudsling.

[Naomi-Tan]

Um, honestly 5 days is not *that* little, it's over a third of Day 1. DAE find Io's voteshift onto a leantown read of hers a little worrysome?

Then there's her 601 that was addressed to me, which I asked about and she didn't explain:

Honestly though I'm more confident that AJ and Culted are a scum team than you Mini. That's mostly because you're play style right now is basically mimicking how you played in 658, and

it's not like I really disagree with you a ton

. Though you and Culted do look pretty buddyey right now.

Io says she doesn't disagree with me a lot, even though I
[1] scumread her,
[2] scumread the people she thinks are town (massive and Newman), and
[3] townread the people she thinks are scum (culted, a little bit Aj).

scumslip

,

n

/'skʌmslɪp/

A careless mistake that exposes one as scum.

‘You think I'm scum and your reads the the polar opposite of mine but it's not like I really disagree with you a ton’

VOTE: Io

They was wrong. but I just LOVED that definition thing XD I'm guessing this is why IO dies. Silly mistake. but great post 10/10

[Naomi-Tan]

If Newman is town, he's definitely managed to outscum the real scum.

Grey, you're kind of a dick, you know that right?

If by dick you mean I'm most useful during hard times, you're right.

OMG she is on fire!

[Naomi-Tan]

I'm a cop!

Okay first cop claim. Go.

Before the cop claim, everyone was reading them kinda red and multiple people had intent to hammer. So It made sense to claim to save there own ass.

Massive themselves had just declared intent to hammer. Given that he claims now to be a even night cop and the claim was normal cop. Why would massive not INSTANTLY attack this slot if not Counter Claim. Just 5 posts previously we had him tossing suspicion on people defending Newman and now to see his reaction.

VOTE: Newman

And then lurking for the rest of the day. Now ... Coming from a town perspective, You just had someone claim your role, someone you thought was red. then you just let them go. You don't chew them out you don't push you don't even type words. you just blank vote and vanish... That is not Green play. In my mind. If I get counter claimed. As green the first thing I do is declare it. this all most always results in the other person or myself getting lynched. Now lets time warp and look what the odds are. If you think there red and your green. You would of had a 90% chance to killing a person you thought was red D1. As the majority of town had voted with 2 declaring intent. That kinda cloud doesn't vanish instantly. You see... here is what I think Actually happened though. you thought it was 100% that you'd die. why? because as red lying about your role (declaring your a cop) and entering in a 1v1 is a bad idea unless your going to win the game off of it (like In Lylo or Mylo. If you'd countered claimed they would of flipped green and a cop and then the crowd would of turned bad.

So here is a quick round up here.
If Massive knew the alignment of Newman. then counter claiming would result in him dying. however, if he didn't know their alignment and thought they was red like they was supposing at the time of the claim. Then there would be no reason not to counter claim as if they DO flip red. you've just confirmed your slot and gotten rid of mafia which is a good trade.

[Naomi-Tan]

36/45 and breaking for now. 9 pages to go so should finish catching up today or tomorrow.

[Naomi-Tan]

The other thing about Flubber is that he took massive's cop claim in stride. As I did initially as well. Given we were both scum reading massive, and I'm town I should probably assume he's town as well?

Hmm. I also can't really decide whether or not scum would be more likely to accept the claim or dispute it. I've already decided that flubber and massive are very unlikely to be partners. Now scum flubber would therefore know that massive is telling the truth so he might think it's not worth arguing about. There are still enough people with a bit of suspicion that he can get lynched. (me or Naomi, who I think is also an unlikely teammate).

However scum benefit from confusion- a town that strongly believes massive is a town that has fewer suspects and thus more chance of finding a scum team.

Town flubber is probably caught between his initial distrust of massive and his willingness to accept claims. So yeah I'm not sure

the scum team have confused you. go read everything you can and reaffirm why you thought that way to begin with.

[Naomi-Tan]

in short Naomi or Flubber look like a good lynch.

Holy cheese.. she got to where I was yesterday XD

[Naomi-Tan]

I see. Well I feel reasonably confident that scum won't clearly work as a block. The entire point is to try and find a way to hunt scum that doesn't rely on my reads or views on their interactions since I haven't been confident about that at all so far.

For what it's worth both Flubber and Naomi have been reasonably suspicious today and this different approach seems to indicate that suspicion was well founded.

Wait I been suspicious.. JEez.. talk about belittling your efforts.. I mean come on this has been a lot of work.

[Naomi-Tan]

Flubs is a good middle ground as its yours. mine, AJ's, Culted and I think IaI's red list. (which means the majority of town do think there red and could go for hammer. but I'm still reading) I think Once I vote too the dynamic will hopefully shift enough to put L-1

[Naomi-Tan]

this is why I told them to reafirm their reads. in their head reds had convinced them of falsehoods by rereading you can go; these are mY reads uninfluenced

[Naomi-Tan]

Urgh im too sleepy to handle this properly.. Okay so here is how I'm going to deal with this right now. I'm going to direct a small bit at each of you then im going to sleep and I expect to change whats going on.

Kairal Thought your read after your theory lined up with my declaration, I would advise you reconcider your actions. The way you got to the read is flawed.

Kairal II: Though It is a flawed read it is not in anyway alignment indicative. Just not a theory that is fuctional as its built on flawed foundations

AJ: this is oppertunistic and bad play does not equal Red members. Your right about the logic and the theory (at least I think I didn;t really check as I just want sleep) but it was not the time to push as It did not reflect on their alignment

Both: We should focus on less wildcard lynches today. you may red read each other but the majority is focused on flubs and myself. You should also focus us as the day is all most over and tackle your issues tommorow when we can explore this more in depth without risking a rushed misslynch due to time.

Hopefully this settles you both down. I didn't really wanna post as I just want sleep but I couldn't let this sit and result in a miss lynch.

[Naomi-Tan]

Wow... Well I guess my little post did nothing :I You know what. I'm gonna just lie down as I don't wanna deal with this mess. Assume my reads unchanged.

[Naomi-Tan]

Wow... Well I guess my little post did nothing :I You know what. I'm gonna just lie down as I don't wanna deal with this mess. Assume my reads unchanged.

well don't assume but I havn't really read the bigger walls yet as I didn't like the base and it looks like just one calling red for bad logic and the other calling red for calling them red... its a whole lot of bleh. I'll read it in depth in a sec, but I doubt its really gonna do much to shift me if what I just wrote is true.

[Naomi-Tan]

Incidentally I assume we're all on the same page about scum being pretty good this game right? they've effectively gotten 3 mislynches without raising any real suspicion. Does that sound more likely to be me, the guy who's played all of 3 games or AJ the long term veteran? If I'm good enough to avoid any kind of detection for 2 days why do I throw that away on a Jin lynch that was bound to happen anyway? If I'm scum why even bother with the VCA? A method which as massive notes implicates me to a large degree?

I dobut there especiually good. just town has been pretty bad and super paranoid. If there is something there good at its talking others into questioning themselves. Like Flubs and massive have had lots of pressure multiple times this game then they say something or someone does something right near flip. it blows up and then miss lynch. Take Massive D1, All the day everyone was red reading them (same for flubs today) and then right at the end out of no where IO's misslynch comes right off the back of MDS claiming a slip. Though the base arugement wasn't great it was presented in a very convincing way and misslynch. Most of town is paranoid as you can see by how scattered the reads are. If we cannot create a cohesive unit and suspect EVERYONE then we're just gonna die.

You may be wondering how I'm so clear right now; Its cause i am not looking for the reds. I look for the greens Reds don't want to be noticed while greens don't care. Reds need to give off green traits but still need to focus on Misslynches. While greens will give off consistent and persistent tells. Kairal I want you to forget about links between players and pick out 4 people who you believe are Town due to the way they play, not poweroles. PR's can be faked interactions cannot be. Find your greens then check whats left. because if you find 4 greens. You have 4 people remaining. which gives you about a 75% chance of each being red.

Next consider which of your reads are red. look for connections and look for why they didn't make your green list. By the time you done this you should be having a clear understanding of who you feel is red and green. Its harder for red to convince you that your green reads are red and cause confusion and its harder for reds to hide from this POE style hunting.

[Naomi-Tan]

When I read Kairal's last post I asked; Is this normal confusion or fake confusion. I think its extremely obvious that its real confusion as before the confusion Kairal was only really suspected by one person and had clear reads and abandoning those reads and acting confused benafits no one. red or green. yet if red motivated I would of expected them to have recovered at some stage instead of going into a tail spin. this leads me onto a pretty clean and certain Kairal read.

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi if you're going to play with motives I'd like you to read my post on it. This isn't a "Meh my gut tells me ____" scenario.

Examining your motive was not my goal. I did read your previous post and decided to evaluate your actions here separately. Kairal has a much more clear motive. Yours would require a more indepth look and I am taking today off so I can brace myself for it. (your posts are kinda heavy as my own)

[Naomi-Tan]

I wasn't talking about mine, but rather Kairal's. I see a scenario that he presents that wins him the game as scum. I only really looked for it because the method seemed so bad, but now my point is to highlight this possibility.

Btw how DID flubber end up claiming last?

according to super confirmed town slot blackvoid - yes.

[Naomi-Tan]

...There was no yes/no question there.

You... are correct... well thats awkward.. I will now attempt to subtlety deflect this with a question; Do you think there late claiming is indicative of alignment.

[Naomi-Tan]

Btw how DID flubber end up claiming last?

Do you think there late claiming is indicative of alignment.

No, it's kinda a failure on the town to not call it earlier. Not that I really expected anything but VT claims with what roles had been revealed. If we had another PR, it was going to end up being a 1v1 with massive.

So why did you bring something up if you didn't think it mattered to determine the alignment of flubbs?

[Naomi-Tan]

I still feel our best chance is in {culted, AJ, Dier.....maybe outside shot of Flubber}

The only of those 3 who have voted Flubber, AJ D3.

This fits my red read of IaI so nicely.

[Naomi-Tan]

I still feel our best chance is in {culted, AJ, Dier.....maybe outside shot of Flubber}

The only of those 3 who have voted Flubber, AJ D3.

This fits my red read of IaI so nicely.

How exactly does this fit you scumread of IAI?

Well I'm Green reading Culted and Dier. AJ is my 4th slot and flubber is the one most people are sure of. If your red you don't wanna push your buddies but do wanna push those who you might be able to Misslynch which would be Dier and AJ (not sure why culted is there) and Given they also slightly red readed there red buddy they won't get any major heat for it later. so it fits well.

[Naomi-Tan]

Well you was reluctant on the one person in your grouping that I red read and is most likely to flip red today when their lynched. I can't think of any reason to hold back on that read.

[Naomi-Tan]

IAMI

: Did you understand that? Because ... I did not.

Naomi

: Unless you're saying "I can now scumread IAI based on associatives with unflipped players" in which case I totally understand what you are saying.

Yes. When Flubbs flips red it'll then confirm my theory. I can make associative tells If I'm sure enough of my results. nice try though.

[Naomi-Tan]

I think you're wrong about IamI Naomi. Please reconsider your view on AJ and culted. If you think Flubber is red I don't understand how you can't see both of them protecting him. Also what do you think of Io's reads exactly coinciding with what I'm proposing and then AJ misrepresenting them whenever that fact is mentioned?

Eh Im reading Aj in the 4th reddist slot and IaI in the 3rd I think they'll be plenty of time to sort that later. Rather get the stronger and more obvious reds gone first.

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: Flubbernugget I'm not really gonna have time to finish my read up as I caught the flu and am not really able to focus much, but as the day is ending I think I need to help lynch my primary focus. You can see why im voting from numberous posts. but yeah. Lets flip the red.

[Naomi-Tan]

Can we get flubbs voted up before we have a no lynch.

[Naomi-Tan]

most people are reading flubbs in there top 3 most likely to be red. we should settle as we don't have time left really :/

[Naomi-Tan]

Why not culted?

Cause there on less than half peoples red read. while flubbs just seems to be on partially everyone's.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay I think cultured is town however, I have intent to hammer to prevent a no lynch. So, if you can get one more person on that wagon I'll hammer. if not I won't. but Im gonna wait as long as I can (until I go bed) before doing so :I

[Naomi-Tan]

@IAI and Naomi: what do you think about going for AJ?

I like it better than going for culted. still not in my top 3 but Im really not sure who is more likely to be the 4th red AJ or IaI

[Naomi-Tan]

Why not culted?

Cause there on less than half peoples red read. while flubbs just seems to be on partially everyone's.

Wait, you said you didn't want to lynch Culted because there's no support for that lynch but now you are implying that Culted is town?

Firstly I didn't say no support. I said that there was less support than a flubbs lynch. but as massive and IaI both went back on there Flubbs reads its now more likely

Secondly. this isn't the first time I've said that I town read them. please reference every post I talk about them on my catchup big read lists and my general attitude.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay, but who are your top three?

Flubber
Massive
IaI
AJ

[Naomi-Tan]

How many does AJ have?

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi listing me as a scumread probably means this is town Naomi. As inexplicable as Naomi is, I can't imagine scum-Naomi being on the wrong side of the cop claim.

Oh Now you say something -_- I been talking about my red read and disbeliving of the cop claim since like 5 pages ago. but you only change your tune now. what gives?

[Naomi-Tan]

I need a vote count before I act before sleep.

[Naomi-Tan]

I'll agree with the idea that Aj The Epic is a greater threat if Mafia, but that conditional is really important and I'm not persuaded of it.

I can be online about three hours before the deadline for about an hour, and if we really need an emergent hammer I can be on in the last 30 minutes.
If we need something earlier than that I can try to be online intermittently starting six hours before the deadline, but that will be sporadic.

its certain little things isn't it? that just stick out.. weird interactions.. Its why I have him 4th slot.. Im unsure still and its rather bothersome.

I think flubs is still a safe bet considering you and dire have expressed that its a good choice and I feel at least 2 more may join it.

[Naomi-Tan]

I wish that I had entered when Shadow did.. this slot is such an uphill battle -_- Like.. I've done everything I can to stop this slot stigma but its so hard. at this point in time.. I've posted the second most out of all players.. yet i'm still being punished the bad an weird choices CK and shadow made.. There should be enough content for you guys to use without citing CK and shadow.. Sigh.. oh well.. tomorrows another day.

PEDIT; personally I thinks flubbs entire push on massive reads as distancing. There is like 1 or 2 things showing them as being red. Like if they thought that way they would push. much like I been pushing flubbs lynch for most of my active time. Grey I can believe though as grey is kinda abrasive as green and can certainly come off as red to players who react negatively without looking too deeply into it. Given this attitude it would make sense to fuel his emotions. Personally flubbs on massive was on such a dull flame that I'm not sure if you can count it as pushing.

[Naomi-Tan]

No thats not my bigger argument thats just my counter argument for him being town for his interactions with massive.

[Naomi-Tan]

Well as people don't know why im voting flubs lets get a compilation post

I didn't really like flubbs reaction to CK's faked slips but I think if they are as smart as I think they are they also might of called it and not cared as I would of if I was playing and not in this slot.

With current site meta your best bet really is to ignore scum reads on you unless there's something off on a really fundamental level

I don't like this statement it discourages conversation and exploration of alignments viva questioning. Though I must admit when the heat gets over a certain level I do vanish for a while to reset it if I make too many mistakes (as both alignments) though I always think first piroity should be discussion of a point before ignoring of a point.

Flubbernugget
(Not really trusting there reaction to the slips)
(Stopping discussion by saying defending yourself is bad)
(Mudslinging blackvoid by saying they was sheeping when they wasn't given Flubs vote was RVS)

Flubbernugget
(Not really trusting there reaction to the slips) I'm not going into this one but I'll leave my raw note here
(Stopping discussion by saying defending yourself is bad) I think I commented on this one ealier
(Mudslinging blackvoid by saying they was sheeping when they wasn't given Flubs vote was RVS) and this
Those was my top 3 notable notes. (ones I wrote down because omg) Other than those there general pushes have been bad//weak. they don't post very often (upto page 20) and when they do its about the same number of line I been making on my catchup posts without the supplementary large posts that come every now and then.

There may be some coordination between My two biggest red reads but I don't think its strong enough to really hold up. things like both of them pressuring MDS at about the same time and both of them Town read my slot.

Additionally much like Massive they don't give many Town reads. the above mentioned thing being the only thing of note Pre-475.

Ignore reads on me = not crying when I'm scum read

Not only am I scum hunting you right now, I started the massive wagon too

Wait what? No. I would of noticed. Oh OH yeah that whole BS! Your Random Vote Stage Vote Does Not Count As Starting A Wagon!

Massive, I would like your read on cloudkicker. I see your 94 as not reading them as town, yet your 95 votes for someone else for *reasons*

And my vote is staying on you.

look at how random my vote is everyone

LOOK AT IT

Thats not your Vote post and is literally your only interaction directly (and subsequent conversations on the topic). You may have turned your joke vote into a semi-serious vote. but thats not really starting a wagon. Your barely even pushing :/

You voted him during the RVS with no bloody evidence and you still credit yourself with "starting his wagon".

Like, it's not like I even care who started the wagon. It just boggles me why you keep bringing it up, as if you're trying to squeeze out some town credit in case he flips scum.

Is it because you *know* he is scum?

Yes, I was making the first accusations on him. You're accusing me of not scumhunting when I began voting him for the same reason you did later

Also, you blatantly lied. And it shows that you thought you would get away with it because you're AGAIN trying to handwave when I began to have an actual scumread on massive.

I hate the way he's twisting words here.

Even without massive's claim I was pretty sure he and Flubber couldn't be a team. Remember that in Day 1 there's a fairly lengthy period where massive is the frontrunner votewise. Flubber stayed on him like glue all of day 1. I don't believe a scum teammate would be very likely to do so. Not saying it's impossible because I did see a scum player do that recently. It's pretty risky play though. He could have tried to push the wagon to Io or Newman but never did. That is a pretty hardcore bus if it is one.

yeah but despite being on them They didn't really push there was a total of one thing he brought up and other than that it was just sorta left to sit. I also read that interaction between massive and flubber as distancing more than anything and given there reads have been in alignment from my iso so far why would you find the person agreeing with you suspicious? especially if there not doing it loudly giving there own little flawed small reasons for it.

I think the other thing that REALLY irritates me about the flubbs // massive thing is how flubbs had their vote on massive all of Day 1 (or at least upto where I am located) and had multiple oppertunities to push what they felt was there red read (if their green and massive is either alignment) but didn't. but also they didn't push there miss lynch, (if their red and massive is green) Which leads me to the odd conclusion that they know each others alignments.

Okay Let me make this a bit clearer by running threw all 4 situations

• [Green Flubs, Green Massive] Not knowing the alignment of massive and thinking there red, they would pick up and push things as they happen with the rest of Green

•[Green Flubs, Red Massive] Not knowing the alignment of massive and thinking there red, they would pick up and push things as they happen with the rest of Green

•[Red Flubs, Green Massive] Wanting a miss lynch they push whenever they think they can get away with it. pushing softly and edging them out.

•[Red Flubs, Red Massive] Voting them for distance but not really putting heart into lynching them as you want them alive.

Grey is playing in a way that makes his intentions ambiguous and that needed to be highlighted

Im counting this as a mudsling.

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: AJ Fuck it.. compromise it is.

[Naomi-Tan]

Unofficial Vote Count

0 - Dierfire:
0 - BlackVoid:
3 - Kairal: Culted, Aj The Epic, Flubbernugget
2 - Flubbernugget: Dierfire
0 - I Am Innocent:
0 - Naomi-Tan:
0 - culted:
0 - massive:
4(L-1) - Aj The Epic: Kairal, BlackVoid, I Am Innocent, Naomi-Tan

Not voting: massive

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2017-01-13 15:30:00)

[/quote]

[Naomi-Tan]

It seems like it's Kairal-Naomi-IAMI vs Flubber-AJ-Culted and I'm 100% it's not as easy as that.

It's funny, re-reading culted makes me think culted-Naomi would be the pair. Culted tries to question Cloudkicker about his 9-die "slip" but never really follows up on it, and then doesn't interact with the slot until Naomi needs a little coaching.

Get the fuck out.

[Naomi-Tan]

Thats hammer.

[Naomi-Tan]

I think that Aj The Epic has four votes and Kairal has three. That makes my decision straightforward, at least (although I won't say "easy").
I'm reading Aj The Epic as Town, and I'm expecting a Town flip, but I don't think that the read is strong enough to justify passing on the lynch.

It really burns me to do it.

VOTE: Aj The Epic

Im just about reading them Green. So Im kinda excited. there Very boarder line for me. just edging out of the slot with a few good posts.

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: culted

I definitely wouldn't want to lynch Kairal at this point; that read feels good to me and my main suspects were voting for Kairal with Aj The Epic.
Similarly, my read on I Am Innocent and Naomi-Tan is strengthened by the lynch. I might perhaps reassess Naomi-Tan if we get another Mafia flip with one of the roles from the list in 1191, but otherwise I'm looking elsewhere.

Why would a red team member out all of the PR's of their team? wouldn't that be counter productive?

[Naomi-Tan]

So you guys need to sell the town that this:

5 (LYNCH) - Aj The Epic: Kairal, BlackVoid, I Am Innocent, Naomi-Tan, Dierfire

was all town. I personally find it highly unlikely.

uh... hmm... indeed.. well... okay lets back track a bit. IaI myself and Diefire all voted on the last day and it was pretty early so i think most people was not awake or was at work or otherwise unable to post. I am still in favour of my flubbs and massive theory. As I don't think its unreasonable that town didn't get chance to react.

Speaking of my line up. Sorry IaI I had you pegged incorrectly it was always a toss up between you and AJ for that last slot. So ... sorry.

[Naomi-Tan]

I have suddenly become unsure of my massive read. As these last few posts are suspiciously reasonable.. However, If they live past tonight we will know their red (as why leave a cop up when he will result in the morning) If massive is red they will live.

in other idea's if massive is green why choose blackvoid over massive.. well the only reasonable explanation is as I was pressuring them.. but IIRC AJ was agreeing with my suspensions of massive so.. I think its reasonable to assume green for now.

[Naomi-Tan]

I'm inclined to believe Karial is town and AJ was feeding into their poor play to waste time.

Naomi is seriously trying to doubt that massive is a cop...just like Aj. I suspect this could have been a pivotal point of the scum strategy that didn't pan out the way they wanted it to.

I'm starting to warm up to IaI's scum read on culted. His defense of me seemed kinda weird, but I pretty much blew it off due to me knowing I'm town anyway.

Also, I would at least expect a POE this far in the game to explain a vote.

VOTE: culted

this here just proves that flubs wasn't attucally reading and just name skimming as they would of seen my adjustment to my massive read ealier on today.

[Naomi-Tan]

Was also probs wrong on iami- he was a big part in making the aj lynch happen.
Probably just was omgusing on him because his push on me was bad.

Naomi or dier was the bussvote.

Dier's hammer was awkward... but naomi is more scum by play.
Torn there.
So we lynch the obvscum who was off today and work that out tomorrow.

see this is why im now considering a Culted and flubs team.. Both come in and go for me.. I don't know why anyone would think the vote I made would be a bussvote considering I had been posting for a while my thoughts on them and that they was a close 4th most red. Like turns out they was red. but I did point out explictedly red behaviour that they did. you'd think that they would of accepted it. this push stinks of red motivations.

[Naomi-Tan]

oh okay. Err.. cool. least I got my voice out before flip... that was stupidly quick.

[Naomi-Tan]

Yeah I hope your right and this isn't some tempture tanturm I was just getting a little suspicious of them but generally still held them above the bottom 2.

[Naomi-Tan]

@MOD: Vote Count

[Naomi-Tan]

Well then I guess I really was being paranoid..

[Naomi-Tan]

Vote: Flubber

I'm happy for this vote.

[Naomi-Tan]

Well its been nearly 2 days I don't really have much to add right now. I think flubs is red so.. voting flubs is what I'm doing. Sorry for not really saying much so far today. but I didn't really feel that I needed to comment.

[Naomi-Tan]

I feel my entrance really helped town.. I think If I hadn't put in so much effort my slot may of been miss lynched and it may of GG'd

[Naomi-Tan]

OH YEAH speaking of modding. Does anyone remember when I did this;

Spoiler: Vanilla Townie Role PM
Hello (Player Name)!
You are a Vanilla Townie.

You have your voice and your vote. Use them wisely!
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
The game is here

Please confirm with your role name.

Well I said I'll point it out post game so here it is;

You are a

Vanilla Townie.

You have your voice and your vote. Use them wisely!
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
The game is here http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69502

Please confirm with your role name.
[/quote

My role pm had a Link to the game where the example post had it hyper linked. So I worked this out at the time I quoted that but decided it wasn't in the spirit of the game to use that to confirm my slot to all other VT's who could confirm it viva paraphrasing XD.

[Naomi-Tan]

It was helerious XD If I had joined into the start It would of activated a reroll xD

[Naomi-Tan]

Oh also this quote;

Subject: Mini Normal 1861: Musical Mafia

Just quoting page 1 so I could find it (as I keep going back to check the player list. its hard to keep track with people talking)

Thank you for clarifying that: I jumped when I saw you quoting the sample role PM.

Makes me wanna troll more Mods as VT by quoting their example post XD

[Naomi-Tan]

I think the mod made the right call in replacing but I feel that he could of provided less information if he had gone with 'CK is being replaced for abuse to another player' As it would denied both sides alignment information. I think killing the slot would of provided an unfair advantage.