In Memory

[Vaxkiller]

Hey everyone. I'm Vaxkiller, feel free to call me anything resembling as such. Still skimming over the game, then ill move on to the isos of anyone that pings me during my skim.

I'm a strong believer in the "eager snake" approach to replacing in: Tell me about any important events in the game so I know how each of you feel about them.

That said, im off to read, but I'll keep checking the latest posts, because they are by far more interesting!

UNVOTE:

[Vaxkiller]

First read through done last night, so im semi caught up.

The biggest thing that hit me was anyone who could possibly think creature is scum is crazy. (Looking at you kuroi)

Rm looks scummy, and so does Gamma.

I dont possibly see how lycan could be lying about his role, and it doesn't seem scummy to me. Can someone explain?


Off to read more

[Vaxkiller]

Elaborate please?

I'm assuming you are only referring to that part about you thinking creature is scum.

Hes the sun. We have 2 days in a row because of him. How the hell is that a scum ability?

He also seems to be aware of our abilities and is sharing some of that information.

[Vaxkiller]

VOTE: boring

@kurio Could you tell me why you think creature could be scum?

[Vaxkiller]

Why the fuck am I at the bottom

You have the scummiest avatar.

Did lycan actually activate some sort of ability or was he jsut screwing around?

I still think we need to lynch boring, thier vote of kurio is bad to say the least, just scrambling for something to turn away the wagon on them.

[Vaxkiller]

Is a loved modifier often a scum thing, or it it more like anything goes since this is an open setup?

That said, kurio is a bad wagon and I highly doubt anyones going to start a flash wagon anytime soon, so someone needs to hop on the boring wagon

[Vaxkiller]

btw, does anyone know anything about why boring's flip was redacted? I'd guess it was either her role or a scum day power but wasn't sure if there's some other explanation that I'm missing

Valinor is kind-of like an afterlife place in LotR so yes, boring should be dead. Presumably she got janitor'd.

Since he went to Valinor, does it mean he might come back? It doesn't say he was lynched or anything.

[Vaxkiller]

Btw, who else was speculating that I must be a scum-aligned Sun? There must have scum around there.

I only remember kurio, but I dont think he is scum.

[Vaxkiller]

@kuroi

If creature was scum, don't you think the wise move for the scum team would have been to bus him day 1 before there were 2 day cycles in a row?

@Dreal, thats just how creature posts. Yeah its hard to read, but for this game he gets a pass because of his role, im pretty much treating him like an innocent child at this point.

[Vaxkiller]

But how would they have known there would be two day cycles in a row? It's not like game started and we said, "Let's lynch KTS."

How would who know? The scum team? We are all agreed that creature caused the 2nd day cycle right? So if you are saying creature is scum the scum team would know. Or do you think that ability is a secret ability hidden from creature?

[Vaxkiller]

The sun has returned and the day will continue!

Not sure how else to interpret this.

[Vaxkiller]

Why is town reading creature dumb (or lazy) and why would you think the 2nd day is not caused by him?

(Scifi nerds read on)
I kind of doubt were on Trisolaris with multiple suns.

[Vaxkiller]

The scum team didnt try and bus thier compulsive buddy that game?

[Vaxkiller]

I'm kinda lost this game
I have too many TRs

The 2nd part is usually a scum problem.

[Vaxkiller]

Kuroi is a bad wagon.

Gamma does not feel like the other games I've played with him and he seems way more cautious today that the previous day.

VOTE: gamma

[Vaxkiller]

As for "too many TRs", if you really think it's a scum thing do you think I'd announce it?

You have a point.

@zeifiend
I can actually see gamma using meta as an argument and telling others he doesn't care about meta as town or scum, I don't think it idicates alignment

I think Kuroi is town now, too.

Why?

Why and when.

BTW I just realized I'm town reading postie because he asks "Why" every time I want to know more about something. Not sure if thats a good reason for that read tho.


Post edit:
Gamma, your above comment I agreed with originally, but upon re-reading is kinda WIFOM'y Why wouldn't you announce it as scum if its a town thing to do?

[Vaxkiller]

Reasons to not vote Creeps20 besides "he's hated"?

He seems like lynch bait to me. He is not really contributing, but doesn't appear to be scum either.

[Vaxkiller]

People, the DEO hydra contains Scum. Please lynch them.

He is "part"-scum

[Vaxkiller]

DEO, you think lycan was vigged and NK'd?

[Vaxkiller]

I do. I find it is the most plausible explanation for no scumkill. Except I don't think scum would shoot there.

To me the simplest explanation is Drealmerz is lying.

The most plausible explanation? If dreal is lying he has to be scum, if hes scum why would they waste a vig shot and NK on lycan, who was lynch bait anyway?

[Vaxkiller]

DEO, you think lycan was vigged and NK'd?

I do. I find it is the most plausible explanation for no scumkill. Except I don't think scum would shoot there.

To me the simplest explanation is Drealmerz is lying.

~~Math

I really have a hard time following this - I can't see what you're thinking

you say "no scumkill" but then, by your logic, isn't lycan the scumkill and I'm lying about my vig timing?

what is my lie? ugh this is realllly frusrtating

MB, check yourself if you're town, I think you just get lost on crazy theories to explain things

to me this just feels like scum pushing an agenda hardcore though

I am saying
Scum submit you to do kill on player X.
You vig Lycanfire for cred.
Lycanfire having you as a top scumread redirects all your actions to him. Since you claimed killing role and based on thread meta he was likely being mislynched.

Therefore the scum kill and vig kill went to Lycanfire and Drealmerz is a scum vig.

If lycan had dreal as a top scum read, wouldn't he want to redirect dreal onto himself?

[Vaxkiller]

EBWOP, redirect dreal onto dreal

[Vaxkiller]

btw I'm not explaining my Vax vote

rofl

[Vaxkiller]

I really like FA's activity, im getting good town vibes. I'm glad it came to a slot that no one could read. Please dont ask for roles from other townies tho.
For the past day I've been looking into and makign a post about what postie/gamma/DEO have been saying about their PT's, hoping there would be something there. Now that I have finished, I feel like I'm at the same place where I started. I still don't trust gamma, but I don't think there was any information surrounding the PT's that aided that opinion.

[Vaxkiller]

Yes

Postie/Gamma
and
Gamma/DEO

[Vaxkiller]

and he was town in Ttyll and I saw the same sort of "issues" with him, so

Oh yeah, in that game I seem to recall you being scum

[Vaxkiller]

Here is what I had on the PT's for wahtever good it is.

Gamma/Postie PT
Gamma/DEO PT

Postie seems suspicious of Gamma. Posts 1834 2103 2109 2123

DEO trusts gamma and is trying to pass information to postie through him -Posts 2126 2127

Is the information not arriving? Because postie seems to be indicating that gamma is not being helpful at all. @Postie is gamma not answering specific questions, is he just being silent or what? Some context would be great.

Gamma are you not talking with postie because you think he is scum? Reading through your iso I see that you pushed him early on in post 159, but then defended him in 435, so I'm not sure what your current thoughts on postie are at the moment, because those are quite old. You seem to think DEO is town in this post here 1963

Postie seems to trust DEO post 2134 but is slightly paranoid of him in an earlier post 1950.
Deo seems to trust postie in posts 1345 and 2090 and is requesting in this thread to talk privately through the PT's - see post 1826


So what the fuck does all this shit mean?

I keep running all these scenarios through my head:

town!postie scum!gamma town!DEO The gamma scum scenario is the most likely. Gamma seems to be getting along with DEO but not postie. I can't find any of gammas thoughts on postie, only postie thoughts on gamma. This appears to be the breakdown in communication. I am biased however, I think my outside opinion (of this topic) of gamma is leaking in.
town!postie town!gamma scum!DEO This is possible, DEO seems to really want to get information to postie, but postie doesn't trust gamma. This could be town or scum motivated tho
scum!postie town!gamma town!DEO I'm town reading postie and this (while possible) seems highly unlikely.
scum!postie scum!gamma town!DEO Very unlikely. Postie is suspicious about gamma not being cooperative in chat.
town!postie scum!gamma scum!DEO Possible, but unlikely.

scum!postie scum!gamma scum!DEO

I can't conceive this possibility.
town!postie town!gamma town!DEO Maybe.

[Vaxkiller]

I'm here, catching up now, sorry I had something come up over the weekend. If you have a specific question just ask it and ill answer it while I catch up.

[Vaxkiller]

Titus has RL. Never accuse RL of being fake. Sometimes one head in a hydra posts more than another.

I get that, but my problem with you is that both of you have different reads, so its easy to say "Oh, my other head thinks that, hes crazy" and then just push whatever agenda you feel like.

Math bought me drinks.

VOTE: Frozen Angel

He bought your vote?

Can you explain your FA vote to me because I don't get it. Her activity is through the roof. I know activity is non-AI, but her thought process leans toward game solving and I fail to see the scum motivation behind it.

mhsmith brought up some good points in 2848, which scares me because he is not part of my town block.
DEO, you seem to be going after my hard town reads. Do you think creature is scum too?

I would liek to see more pressure here.

VOTE: DEO

[Vaxkiller]

mhsmith brought up some good points in 2848, which scares me because he is not part of my town block.

If they are good points then what is scaring you?

What is your "town block"?

It scares me because I don't have a good read on him so I don't know if I'm being manipulated or not.

My "town block" is just my way of saying town reads.

[Vaxkiller]

Being manipulated about the townread on me or being manipulated about the way you feel about him townreading me?

and what are your townreads?

No, Being manipulated by mhsmith by shedding light to DEO's posts and questioning his reads, but without actually calling him scum or voting him.

My town reads are Creature, FA, Postie, in that specific order.

[Vaxkiller]

Why you're townreading us?

and what about not townreading us three is scummy?

I've posted all my town reads before. Creature is town because he brought about the 2nd day (some people dispute this). You and postie are town because your posts show a clear thought process with active game solving.

Where do I say not townreading you guys = scum?

[Vaxkiller]

DEO, you seem to be going after my hard town reads. Do you think creature is scum too?

@FA
The above isn't my reason for voting DEO. Scum should just want to lynch middle of the road people, not people who are actively trying to solve the game. The above is just me commenting on my surprise that he is going after these people, who are my town reads.

[Vaxkiller]

No, I want more pressure on DEO.

I should have wrote

"I want more pressure here

:

Vote DEO""

[Vaxkiller]

DEO wagon had Vax having an awful jump on with a "bought your vote" comment in response to Titus saying Math bought drinks.

Jareed hates jokes. Check.

I just want DEO to consolidate their reads and stop contradicting thier selves (half the head says the think someones scum and the other half doesn't) It's a big deal because every time something comes up, the other head speaks up and says "that was titus/mathblade, that wasn't me"... but it WAS you. You are hive mind, you are hydra.
This is why I want pressure on DEO

If they can't do that, they need to be lynched, because scum!DEO can just keep on skating on through this game this way.

[Vaxkiller]

@kuroi
Are you town reading Jareed and Klingon?

[Vaxkiller]

The people asking me to case Vax after I already did so are mostly my townreads + zef I think?

People keep asking for a case because you have nothing.

I went though the rest of your iso and found anything you had to say about me... its all just "Vax is scum" and "I already presented my case"
Here is the one post I could find where you say anything of value... and its all about Vedith, and its all from page 9 and before.

I can try to give a soft case if it'll help?

Go for it.

So far it's just what I've noticed early on in the game.

Alright, Gamma scumread around the push on Clemency.
Reasoning: 51 followed by 54 and 56. Hanlon's razor. Titus towncred for 57/59 given that.
By page 5 in my reread I was at Gamma scum, DEO town. Creature and Creeps I was on the fence about as I disliked both of their votes on S_S.
I agreed with 113 and 128

Enter Vedith in 137 with a post that is awful in a way I can't really describe because words. But it's a bad post and there's a reason that I can't articulate right now.

169 still by far the worst hop on I think given Deimos post prior in 154. That said I always misread Klingon and she bubbled KTS and I can't see why she'd do that from a scum perspective. Especially as she's still passing on information from him, which means he trusts her to do so, which means she's not omitting things on him. (Trust is evident in the fact that he's obviously still talking in the PT)

184 again from Vedith is really bad in light of how things have gone down. I don't like the push away from Gamma here. I don't believe it's town motivated, regardless of Gamma's alignment. There's no reasoning why that doesn't make Gamma scum.

205 I again dislike from Vedith. S_S had a clearly expressed scumread on Gamma and possibly on DEO (started with DEO then dropped that in favour of thinking Gamma was the most likely scum on his wagon). I don't like the off-handed dismissal of Gamma being scum without any reason why at all. The reads on Rach and Kuroi are again both dismissive and indicate he doesn't want to read them. Then the characterization of drealmerz in order to justify a scumread there as though people can't have quieter games pings me. The last two lines "The rest, who knows as of yet? Now your turn." comes across as grandstanding. Like he's trying to make a point of "I've been pro-town here".

Here is most of times you have mentioned me:

Spoiler:

Yeah its hard to read, but for this game he gets a pass because of his role, im pretty much treating him like an innocent child at this point.

VOTE: Vaxkiller

Treating him like an IC for his flavour reveal and the double day which we're not even sure was caused by him is a lazy af read. It deserves a vote while I continue my reread, at the very least.

VOTE: Vaxkiller

I think this is actually scum.

what you did in another game and what you do here only matters as far as comparitive information, it doesn't MEAN anything necessarily

what means more to me is that it struck me that you were being a little fishy (in both senses of the word here) around the lycan kill, almost a little frantic it seemed? and considering I kind of said I was going to kill him, it adds to the fishyness of it that you didn't 'let it be' a bit more

I'm not saying YOU'RE SCUM because of it, but, it's definitely notable and I'd like other ppl's views on it (me having made the kill and knowing what happened with lycan gives me an entirely different view than the rest of you so I might be seeing more than is actually there?)

I mean yes and no. It matters to understand my mindset when I'm scum. There's no guarantee I'll post in exactly the same way but there hasn't been much time passed since then. Which means you either have to believe I can improve in a major way with my mindset in a short amount of time, or I'm just town this time.

And yes, the Lycan kill didn't make sense from scum and would have indicated everything I thought about the gamestate being wrong. I would have left it if I thought it was a vig but the case of a vig with no scum kill isn't one that I see often enough to believe it actually happens lol.

Why?

Do you have a reason why not?

I can try to case it tomorrow, but I can't understand why you're only questioning me on Vax.

Idk. I have enough of a townread on you as of 2067 that I'm not going to bother to probe further for now. zefiend has sunk low enough in my reads that I want to vote him instead.
IfIHadOne.jpg

Or maybe Vax.
God where's the direction in this game I need to reread

I'm more on Vax, but I don't have motivation to push it. I can try to give a soft case if it'll help?

I can try to give a soft case if it'll help?

Go for it.

So far it's just what I've noticed early on in the game.

Alright, Gamma scumread around the push on Clemency.
Reasoning: 51 followed by 54 and 56. Hanlon's razor. Titus towncred for 57/59 given that.
By page 5 in my reread I was at Gamma scum, DEO town. Creature and Creeps I was on the fence about as I disliked both of their votes on S_S.
I agreed with 113 and 128

Enter Vedith in 137 with a post that is awful in a way I can't really describe because words. But it's a bad post and there's a reason that I can't articulate right now.

169 still by far the worst hop on I think given Deimos post prior in 154. That said I always misread Klingon and she bubbled KTS and I can't see why she'd do that from a scum perspective. Especially as she's still passing on information from him, which means he trusts her to do so, which means she's not omitting things on him. (Trust is evident in the fact that he's obviously still talking in the PT)

184 again from Vedith is really bad in light of how things have gone down. I don't like the push away from Gamma here. I don't believe it's town motivated, regardless of Gamma's alignment. There's no reasoning why that doesn't make Gamma scum.

205 I again dislike from Vedith. S_S had a clearly expressed scumread on Gamma and possibly on DEO (started with DEO then dropped that in favour of thinking Gamma was the most likely scum on his wagon). I don't like the off-handed dismissal of Gamma being scum without any reason why at all. The reads on Rach and Kuroi are again both dismissive and indicate he doesn't want to read them. Then the characterization of drealmerz in order to justify a scumread there as though people can't have quieter games pings me. The last two lines "The rest, who knows as of yet? Now your turn." comes across as grandstanding. Like he's trying to make a point of "I've been pro-town here".

I'm not sure if it's alignment indicative or just indicative that he's not invested in the game.

my feeling was more that he has been sitting back watching things unfold because of the way the game-state is all weird and shit, but, not speaking for him, that's more my read, and to me that is towny

it doesn't feel lurky-scummy it feels observant-towny, with the bits he's inputed, and yeh, a bit of deimos there are townpings (scumpings too, but, that was an odd involvment from that slot...this is a weird game...)

I think he's just being lazy, personally =P I've seen him put in more effort in most of the games I've seen him play.

@JaeReed Looks like you have machine gun instead of a sniper rifle. Focus in top scumread.

~~Math

I am focusing on my top scumread. It's Vax.

Vax is an infinitely better lynch.

I'd rather no lynch than lynch DEO.

Goodie. I can ask the same question for both posts. Perhaps I'm missing something - why?

DEO is obvtown. Their pushes have always been righteous. I already gave my case for Vax lynch. You all ignored it, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

so give me a better SR and make the case!! I'm listening!

...............................................................................................................................

I feel like I need those breathing exercises after seeing this.

Remember my case on Vedith? I've asked multiple times what you thought of that and you've always defaulted to talking about Vaxkiller instead. I want your opinion on why what Vedith did D1 and how he positioned himself there and stayed off wagons is in any way town indicative or not scum indicative enough for a vote, please.

So by my count by Page 20 the votes looked like this:

DEO wagon had Vax having an awful jump on with a "bought your vote" comment in response to Titus saying Math bought drinks. Kuroi had a "we need to consolidate votes" jump on, which then tied it with the Vax wagon. drealmerz jumped on during the back and forth.

The DEO (4): Klingoncelt, Vaxkiller, KuroiXHF, drealmerz7
Vaxkiller (3): JaeReed, Gamma Emerald
ɀefiend (1): Creature
Mhsmith0 (1): ɀefiend
Frozen Angel (1): The DEO

Not Voting: Postie, Mhsmith0, Frozen Angel

With 12 alive it takes 7 votes to lynch.



Gonna continue getting an unofficial count up after the latest vote changes.

I really would just prefer Vax. There is too much resistance to that lynch and too much of people ignoring my points then asking for them repeatedly. Counterwagon on my hardest townread DEO popped up to it. Now a counterwagon on Gamma the person voting with me on Vax. But people are saying he's town so :/ iunno. I'll hammer or vote on whoever gets up to a leading wagon that I'm not hard townreading at this point.

pedit - thanks drealmz <3 *hugs*

I really would just prefer Vax. There is too much resistance to that lynch and too much of people ignoring my points then asking for them repeatedly. Counterwagon on my hardest townread DEO popped up to it. Now a counterwagon on Gamma the person voting with me on Vax. But people are saying he's town so :/ iunno. I'll hammer or vote on whoever gets up to a leading wagon that I'm not hard townreading at this point.

I mean even those points aren't particularly relevant as reasons, actually.
The people asking me to case Vax after I already did so are mostly my townreads + zef I think?
The people doing counterwagon votes outside of my townreads are Klingon and smith only and I think Klingon voted DEO ages ago and hasn't been around much since, so it's really just smith.

Klingoncelts reason for voting me:

KTS Scumreads KuroiXHF and Drealm. These two and Vax are the likely Scumteam.

Thats it.

At this point I'm not sure which is scummier to be honest.

Jareed, you keep saying you have something, but you have nothing.

VOTE: Jareed

[Vaxkiller]

I mean this is all you could come up with after 126 pages of content? Like really?

?

I keep trying to read his iso to get a read and I can't. I can't get a read on DEO, because its literally 2 people with 2 opinions.

[Vaxkiller]

Ugh, waht a shit night, then I come back to this.

Jesus, look at the apathy on my wagon, just look at the last page. Can anyone in their own fucking words explain their vote on me? No, they dont even fucking know.

I'm an element cop, I can inspect someone to figure out how many elements their role has. Last night I inspected Lycan, he obviously had 2.

[Vaxkiller]

No lynch is not an option, and it looks like gamma is going to be replaced as he has not posted, and he has been posting everywhere else on the site. I doubt we are going to get a good read on his replacement in the time remaining, if one can even be found in time.

We need to agree on a lynch, but I'm not lynching inside this pool: Creature, FA, Postie.

[Vaxkiller]

vax, if you investigated a VT or goon, would you get 1 or 0 as your answer?

0

also vax, what in particular made you investigate lycan last night?

Yesterday I was pretty sure lycan was town, but he was the top counterwagon, so I wanted to use my ability on him to confirm how many elements wer ein his role.

Yesterday when I said "I dont think lycan can be lying about his role" it was because I thought he was telling the truth about this:

I'm Kalista, a Requested Soulbinder Modified Conditional Flavor Cop Global Modified Cop Modified Reflexive Delayer Double Dayer.

I mean how the could anyone make that up?

I didn't realize until today that it was a joke.

@DEO
Element is a role, but I don't get the role back, I just get how many "roles" the target has.

[Vaxkiller]

VOTE: Vaxkiller

For Titus. She said if certain things happened vote Vax. She is in court so I am.

~~Math

Thats a lynch, way to fucking go.

[Vaxkiller]

Kuroi why did you not call out L-1?

~~Math

You thought I claimed at L2?

[Vaxkiller]

Reads list:

Creature, Postie
zeifiend celt
gamma celt DEO
mhsmith dreal kurio
FA Jareed

[Vaxkiller]

btw, does anyone who knows math know whether derp-hammering like that is at all AI for them? Like, is this something she does as either alingment normally, neither alignment normally, etc.? It seems kind of odd that they'd throw down a vote near majority without double-checking the votes, but idk if that's just a sloppy playstyle kind of thing and I shouldn't read into it.

Nice shade, scum

[Vaxkiller]

Wow you agree on something AFTER im lynched. Thanks.

BTW, what was it that came to light that made you vote for me?

VOTE: Vaxkiller

For Titus. She said if certain things happened vote Vax. She is in court so I am.

~~Math

[Vaxkiller]

btw, does anyone who knows math know whether derp-hammering like that is at all AI for them? Like, is this something she does as either alingment normally, neither alignment normally, etc.? It seems kind of odd that they'd throw down a vote near majority without double-checking the votes, but idk if that's just a sloppy playstyle kind of thing and I shouldn't read into it.

Nice shade, scum

That's not shade, that's a legitimate questino about whether Math's sloppiness (which is transparently what happened if they were town) is legitimate or if it should be read into. Some players are in fact sufficiently sloppy that it's reasonably within what we shoudl expect; I don't know Math well enough to know if it applies to them or not, thus I punted the quesiton to the group.

You have been off my radar because you have done nothing, but now you come in and start posting? LOOK AT ME, im mhsmith I'm HELPING!

[Vaxkiller]

Wow you agree on something AFTER im lynched. Thanks.

BTW, what was it that came to light that made you vote for me?

VOTE: Vaxkiller

For Titus. She said if certain things happened vote Vax. She is in court so I am.

~~Math

Titus said to wait and see if Zefiend interacted with your wagon. I did.

She said if zefiend was scum he would avoid your wagon like the plague. I thought he was Town and so when I thought he unvoted I voted you. I think zefiend is scum for the bait and switch.

~~Math

So its Titus's and zefiend's fault im lynched.... great.

[Vaxkiller]

You have been off my radar because you have done nothing, but now you come in and start posting? LOOK AT ME, im mhsmith I'm HELPING!

Do you think the question itself is meaningless and useless? Did you think that the questions I'd asked of you BEFORE math's hammer were meaningless and useless? I guess I don't really see the theory you're advancing here, or why you think it's particularly scum-indicative to come in when your wagon is at L-1 and be productive.

Ok, fine, I get it now.

[Vaxkiller]

FA was so obv town, I couldnt even fight it, lol. To be honest there were so many obv towns it was really hard to hide as scum.

Very well played everyone, had a good game.

@mod, great flavor, great setup! Very nice!

[Vaxkiller]

I never had fun in a mafia game after bloodborne so yeah

Do you like constructing them?

[Vaxkiller]

I never had fun in a mafia game after bloodborne so yeah

Do you like constructing them?

I do and I am construing them

I'm patiently waiting for techies btw.