Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[MathBlade]

No matter what I say no matter what I do because scum are demanding Cakez and Gio you won't listen. I suggest PV miraculously the lynch always falls to someone else. It really doesn't matter because no one gives two shits you all want this game to be over instead of lynching scum.

[MathBlade]

So as far as I am concerned we have already lost because no one uses their damn brain ever in this fucking game.

VOTE: MathBlade

I am done caring. Drink your game away you ignorant buttholes and have whatever scum their is left rip open town's corpse.

[MathBlade]

I don't give a shit about swaying it is a matter of saving the people who will actually be heard. As long as I am around people won't play mafia so come and have your mislynch scum. Let's go let's do this so the rest of town sobers the hell up. I will leave a last will and stop having to try to talk with people who decide their stomachs are better at mafia than their brains.

Come and lynch me you scumfucks.

[MathBlade]

Nahdia went along with it in a simple one word gotcha post.

And I wonder why you would object to Nahdia if she is a Jailkeeper protecting the last useful PR we would have left.

Or is it that you know she isn't a Jailkeeper.

If you can throw out the mechanical conf townieness I have through Gio I can ignore the VT claims because oooooh I think like JaeReed

because all I do is post while drunk

and I should take a step back and think but nooo I am going to push Math because I don't like how they play and they won't vote who I think is scum so they have to be scum with me.

You realize Almost50 is off the damn wagon and you townread Almost50. If this was LyLO Almost50 would be scum.

I highly doubt this is LyLO. Man if I didn't have that VT confirmation

I would say it would be you and CFJ

.

On and Ank another townread of yours not on the wagon. Wtf are you doing in your own proposed LyLO

voting with a scumread of yours Gio

? You make no sense right now. If I was a cop I would pull you over for posting while intoxicated and leverage a no posting anywhere til sober fine.

"Or is it that you know [they aren't] a Jailkeeper."

You were pretty convinced that they weren't a jailkeeper and that jailing someone with a PR would be the way to confirm them, why are you having an issue now?

"because all I do is post while drunk"

This is pretty AtE or emotional in itself in the context its written in. It was... what, a few posts? You're using that to describe "everything" JaeReed does?

"I would say it would be you and CFJ"

Convenient you added CFJ in there, since I do recall you defending them since Narna cleared them and they were backing up JaeReed.

"voting with a scumread of yours Gio"

Any post you have where you have direct conversation with Gio looks like distancing to me, this looks like a desperate attempt to do so.

First paragraph I have no problem with the plan others do.
Second paragraph exaggeration heard of it?
Third I said if I ignored mechanics and logic. I don't.
Fourth I said Gio is a scumread of JaeReeds. I have and do townread him.

[MathBlade]

I am going to rip apart which scum fucking vote me in my last will and you all better follow it because quite frankly everyone is getting lead around like a puppy dog on a leash to a player that the majority scumreads.

Bring it on lynch your town BP. Do it. I DARE you.

[MathBlade]

\\
First paragraph I have no problem with the plan others do.

What?

Second paragraph exaggeration heard of it?

Yes. Why is it useful here? It's a last resort to try to discredit someone.

Third I said if I ignored mechanics and logic. I don't.

What?

Fourth I said Gio is a scumread of JaeReeds. I have and do townread him.

Seems like a dumb reason to ask him to get off of SC. Wouldn't it be great if, in a game like this, everyone's scumreads stayed off their wagon?

I exaggerate all the time. I can think of three instances in day 5. Was it a last resort when I replaced in.
Third go reread with context.
Fourth yes it would but if this is LyLO scum won't bus. I am using that to counter JaeReed's point about it being LyLO

Omg are you not reading for context at all?

[MathBlade]

Pretty much if you think SirCakez is scum you are betting on it not being LyLO

[MathBlade]

Pretty much if you think SirCakez is scum you are betting on it not being LyLO

I understand this now.

Then reread again. See why I said what I did.

[MathBlade]

Actually I don't, but I wanna get criticism for it so I'm just gonna shut up.

Excuse me...Apparentlh this wall beside me doesn't have enough Marh head decoration in it.

[MathBlade]

LyLO = All Town agree on a wagon or we lose.
JaeReed if he believes that believes that at the time of that post me and Almost50 are scum with SirCakez yet he has adamantly said A50 is a townread.

Therefore his LyLO argument is meant to drum up fear and invalid.

[MathBlade]

Actually I don't, but I

don't

wanna get criticism for it so I'm just gonna shut up.

EBWOP

Lying about understanding something is NEVER okay.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade, here's the thing.

Each investigative role we have this game is nerfed heavily in some way.
My role is a confirmed killing role,

which is an investigative role

.
You are claiming to be a bulletproof townie.

Do you see how that doesn't make sense with the rest of the setup?

Killing roles are killing roles.

Investigative roles are ones like cop watcher.

And I am claiming it because it is true numb nuts. If I was scum I would come up with a better claim like I did in Shadowrun Mafia when I was Alien instead of JK.

The only thing different between cops and vigilantes is that vigilantes don't have to claim to give their results and the results can't be doubted in exchange for their target being out of the game.

Vigilantes
are
an
investigative
role

Vigs are not investigative. They leave corpses. Investigation is one that gives feedback. Saying a vig is investigative is like saying Supergirl's eye rays are investigating the internal structure of a building. What do you mean the building collapsed? Supergirl was investigating it. In reality their X ray vision is the investigation took.

Cracking open an egg to see if the yolk is intact is not an investigative role.

[MathBlade]

No matter what I say no matter what I do because scum are demanding Cakez and Gio you won't listen. I suggest PV miraculously the lynch always falls to someone else. It really doesn't matter because no one gives two shits you all want this game to be over instead of lynching scum.

Welcome to my fucking world.

Your world is not based in logic. It is like the entire game decided "Let's not play mafia today"

[MathBlade]

PeregrineV has been prodded.

Received. Will stop by later tonight to catch up.

......

[MathBlade]

V/LA the rest of today,tomorrow, and the following day

Helping a friend move. Probably will be able to post if lucky just no where near as active.

[MathBlade]

It is because I can't prove you are a killer. As I have said in the hood I am working on multiple theories one of which is there was an SK. Unless it is Nahdia someone has a role that is provable and can kill.

Everyone then decided to lynch the last bit of town power over "scummy" without an explanation as to which posts. SirCakez only started pinging me today and on such a small subset of posts. If we were lynching by gut only I would still go with you PV.

[MathBlade]

They please.

[MathBlade]

Scum have control of this game and are plotting my mislynch next. I can't prove it but lynch chaining is generally horrible and making plans to prove Town = good. It is like mafia 101. Catch scum make plan to prove it or disprove it. You don't just read from your ass. That is literally taking dice and hoping it lands on scum. Your dice suck. Hammer while I am away so I do not have to deal with this bullshit when I get back.

[MathBlade]

The logic says it should be.

Furthermore there has been a "miller" to every investigative Pr out there.

The most likely thing is I am fucking town and everyone scumreading me is bending over backwards to do so.

This game is lost. I will give my all and a last will tomorrow but I suspect it will be the quickest hammer ever.

[MathBlade]

Will read tomorrow morning super tired.

[MathBlade]

Still helping a friend move today. Not much time to do anything. Nahdia can has Town reads. The SirCakez lynch is dumb. No time to explain.

[MathBlade]

I think that Jae surviving gives more legitimacy to Nahdia's JK claim.

Agreed. I saw Nahdia visit JaeReed and JaeReed didn't die.

[MathBlade]

I think that Jae surviving gives more legitimacy to Nahdia's JK claim.

That's one way to look at it. Scum may know Nahdia is Town (and thus have no reason to lie) and took their word for granted, yes.

But it could also be a collateral gain, as the scum may have wanted CFJ dead more, and.. give Nahdia's claim more legitimacy in the process.

No this is bad. Nahdia was unclaimed in the hood. After the SirCakez lynch I said do what you want as a test. It means a bad person is in the hood more than likely.

VOTE: Ankanimus

[MathBlade]

Was action unclaimed*

[MathBlade]

I gotta go. But let's lynch Ank.

[MathBlade]

So where is your voe on Math then? You supported a lynch there yesterday and today you say they're almost certainly scum, so I'd appreciate some support pushing them now and seeing where everybody else stands. I mean, you can retract your vote later and wait for the hammer if that's what you want, but at least give this wagon a jump start.

This gives me the heebie jeebies. Mentioned why in the hood.

VOTE: Almost50

I think Ank can only vote Town. That is my hunch. Going to check the game to confirm later. I think A50 is trying to play both sides and push Ank but at the same time get a mislynch on me.

[MathBlade]

I get the strong feeling that someone has overclaimed this game (i.e. claimed a stronger role than they actually have); such a player is highly likely to be scum.

That was Mathblade claiming BP to claim they were shot at thus earning town credit. Such claim (being shot at) was nullified by Yoshi's claim.

CFJ was actually a loud voice opposing Math's schemes (mainly for lynching me, but also other moon-logic including Math being "Conf!Town" to which CFJ never gave in).

So I went back to look a Maxous' ISO, and sure enough .. I found what I wanted.

SirCakez is kinda town
Creature is town

I think Ankamius is town though admittedly i've been wrong about him a couple of times in the past so yeah.
SlySLy is town
Pepto is scum
Gamma Emerald is awkward as hell town that is easy to nitpick at (and a possible counter-wagon attempt from peptobislawl)

Nahdia is trying too hard to redeem Giga's slot. They ain't succeeding.

Bolded, underlined and put in Italic: The top two "Town" reads of Maxous were SirCakez and Creature (Creature is now Mathblade). These were the first two he targeted to recruit after his death (apparently he thought they would outlive many others and was proven right).

...well that list is MY town-reads anyway (plus creature) so :dealwithit:

additonal note: if pepto does end flipping town, i'm prolly gonna lynch mcmenno

And here he is reasserting his Town read on Creature, and lining up lynches on Townies (Pepto was Narna's sot).

also: McMenno is selectively responding, his latest contribution is entirely to complain that i've been taking potshots. i think he's even still voting Narna.
who is town here? probably Cakez, Nahdia, Narna.
multiball is likely, so Titus and McMenno can both be scum. zakk could be scum. Andrius and magna? i don't want to say both are scum, but one of them probably is.

then just vote menno please.

you agreed with me 20 pages ago that a lynch needed to happen yet here we are.

creature is town but if you want to talk about him, holy hell we can talk about him Day 2

.
That goes to all these 1~2 vote wagons.

More defending of the Creature slot in particular.

Titus
Gamma Emerald
Creature
PeregrineV

-
SlySly
Leonshade
Narna
Yume

-
Ankamius
Andrius
zakk
MagnaofIllusion
Nahdia

-
Not Chara
-
SirCakez
Firebringer
massive
Shiro
-
Nosferatu
SnarkySnowman
McMenno


i think that's my current position in order from town => scum
i might be misremembering somebody because of the slog but w/e

I mean, he put my slot up there right below Titus at the very top bc most players were hard Town reading Gamma by that time, but look at where Creature is. I don't see ANYTHING to justify such a strong Town read on him by that time. Cakez is even relegated to a null/scum kind of read.

Now somebody tell me this sequence of

Spoiler: 5 posts

Yeah, motivation is still low.
NC is an acceptable lynch.
I want to move onto the part where narna/Leon get hanged.

VOTE: creature

There's a day and a half left.
Everyone either gets on creature or not chara or be considered vig-bait.

Agreed. Leon should of been auto-lynched.
People really over complicated this with WIFOM.

Agreed. Leon should of been auto-lynched.
People really over complicated this with WIFOM.

WILL YOU JOIN IN OUR CRUSADE

Crusade status: joined

VOTE: leonshade

I wasn't super happy on creature anyway

makes any sense (other than it being for distancing when the VC get analyzed later out of their context).

I mean, naked vote then asking for an either/or then stating he wasn't happy about wagoning that slot??

Then this:

Creature.
I saw that you may of blocked me though

But -interestingly- it was Maxous who also claimed having blocked Creature, so which is it did he mean??

Also interestingly Creature wanted to end the game in a draw at about the same time Maxous had called for it, so -maybe- he was notified of having lost his ability?? Not too sure about that last part since I still believe the "Maxous Followers" faction was "created" after his lynch.

Anyway, I have this urge to vote Mathblade now. They seem to be the one person that would have been targeted by CFJ today after the Cakez flip, so they benefited the most from their death.

Their defense? Yeah sure they did push Max and got him lynched, only they didn't know they were to join his faction after his death (and I just said that I still believe that was the case. The faction was CREATED and the member only got notified AFTER the Maxous lynch had occurred).

VOTE: Mathblade

@Almost50
One ) Most of your posts are pre Maxous death. Based on SorCakez's flip it is likely that people changed alignments during that weird night 5 thing.

Two SirCakez was still an inventor in his flip. He did not seem to gain any misdirection modifiers.

Three I claimed BP pre Maxous flip.

Four Therefore if I am godfather and BP like you are hypothesizing then I would have had god father Pre Maxous flip.

Five If I would have had godfather preMaxojs flip this would make me not Town the entire game as a town Godfather is just Town.

Six If I was scum the entire game why would I point out Maxous was lying there? It makes no sense.

Seven Ergo I am not godfather.

Eight ergo Nahdia JaeReed and I are Town block.

[MathBlade]

My role functions exactly the same as it always has.

Mathblade is almost certainly scum. The meltdown last phase looks significantly worse after a SirCakez scum flip.

And you never voted Scum yet. Pre Or Post Maxous you have never voted scum or any kind. I don't like you.

I genuinely read SirCakez as town. Misreads happen. What matters is adjusting and fixing it.

[MathBlade]

Well, Ank would work for me too, but I want to hear you shouting and spewing your "brilliant" logic all over the place before I decide which one of you I want to lynch the most. Also funny that you should now confirm Nahdia of all players.

Tell me something: Why did you track Nahdia and not Ank?? I mean, you did suspect him more, right? And he didn't hammer scum, so I would have tried to verify HIM over Nahdia if I were you.. (if I were TOWN!Yo, that is)

I specifically said in thread I wanted to confirm Nahdia could Jailkeep. The question is why the hell are you trying to paint me doing what I said I would as scummy. Especially when I had a plan to back it up.

[MathBlade]

Also Almost50 you are not a confirmed town you are likely town. You have claimed something that makes people not want to lynch you. That in no way means you are telling the truth.

And your rant is anger disguised as logic as I cannot have inherited Godfather as demonstrated bun sirCakez lynch.

VOTE: Almost50

I am good with either of them.

[MathBlade]

That is not helpful. Please explain how you think I can be Town preMaxous flip, not inherit Godfather, and still be scum with SirCakez.

[MathBlade]

Ank I want you to vote a different person between each vote count to prove you can vote anyone. I think you have a voting and/or hammering restriction to only vote Town. I think as 3P Chara you could easily be the SK. With the flavorcop flip you could easily have been caught. Anything else could be explained with Miller but not that. I think you Strogman killed Zakk to get around Nahdia's protection for this reason. The fact you do not attack Nahdia here after the two N clan deaths after screaming Nclan hood screams one of two things.

1) You are scum with Nahdia. Highly unlikely.
2) You knew I was going to return a townresult after Nahdia and JaeReed were nice enough to suggest openly I had tracker and not big brother like I was trying to deceive scum with.

[MathBlade]

Response in line

Your entire bit of logic assumes that Maxous was the only scum before his death. We still have very little basis to assume this is true.

No it doesn't. It proves I cannot have changed with SirCakez. It also assumes you are 3P SK

It also assumes that if you're scum, you would've known that Maxous would've changed the game state, which is not necessarily true.

If I was scum preMaxous then any buddies I had would have lynched me for cred a long time ago. Furthermore if I had a known liar in a bastard game and was scum I would have ran to my buddies in a hood and said : "Maxous is conf scum let's lynch it" and there is no way the Maxous lynch drags out that long. Ergo I would have to be scum by myself preMaxous flip and do all the killing. Except Creature didn't kill Shiro when if I was Godfather by myself then Shiro would be too much a threat to leave alive. There is literally no way I am scum.

I would like to point out that you spent a majority of your time in the game insisting that pushing Maxous to a lynch makes you town,

despite the fact that there is no evidence that he was part of a scumteam that knew about his role.

It still does. It demonstrates I was gamesolving instead of apathy lynching. Yes I was wrong on Cakez but I have been trying. If we lynch someone for being wrong I would be the only person left being the least wrong and Town wins.

You have been trying to brute force a confirmed gamestate when there has been very little to no precedence for clears having any impact on the game. This shows you are trying to manipulate the gamestate.
You've spent the entire game trying to brute force your will and shut down anyone who tried to defy you... at least until the last day. When your scumbuddy was being run up and you were losing influence, you threw up your hands and tried to WIFOM.

I would also like to point out a second time that if you are truly a bulletproof, it's most likely that you were put there as a scum BP to weaken my role, which is designed to kill people. This makes far more sense than your bulletproof being designed to have a town role that can counteract my kill, as that has far less of an impact over the role itself.

This is false. Miller is put in place to stop Narna. If anything I am a town counterpart as there seems to be one fake guilty except you who claimed guilty to everything. Rather convenient.

Giovanni has yet to be confirmed to have his results be accurate, yet the closest we have is that he didn't die when following a third party. The fact that he got an "investigative" result means jack shit.

If I am third party I am not Town. Ergo Gio visited me and I am Town. I confirm Nahdia and I confirm JaeReed.

The only way I am scum is if Gio is lying or I am godfather which can't be right see above

[MathBlade]

I would also like to point out that callforjudgment was very strongly implying two things last night before his death:

1. He was hard town reading me for my play yesterday
2. He was strongly believing that SirCakez was scum since the beginning of the game.

It was also looking pretty likely that he would've ended up pushing Mathblade today, which means that there are at least three people that would've been likely to push that slot (being him, me, and Almost50). I'd be very interested in knowing who you think killed CFJ and why, because having a slot that was gaining as much influence as he has while still having me in his blind spot would've been a very interesting choice of a kill for me.

You has wine. I has facts. Town doesn't let Town consume wine to mislynch mechanically confirmed town before Gio. If you think I am scum the proper thing is Gio first.

[MathBlade]

I has fever more nap for me

[MathBlade]

So many words. So little reasons.

All you say is "gut". My "gut" says you are scum.

Scum by play is little more than vapors. What are the facts?

[MathBlade]

Almost50 and you need rope. So freaking bad.

[MathBlade]

Explain how Nahdia is seen visiting you and performs the kill. If they were ninja they wouldn't be seen doing anything.
If they were scum they'd have to be scum with you. And you are a VT per my PM from Skull...Sooooo...Nahdia didn't kill you.

This means they cannot be a killer since the start of the game if there is an SK which makes more sense based on this scenario.
So Nahdia is nigh on close to conf town.

[MathBlade]

Er... Walk me through how Nahdia can't be one of Gaster's followers? Or how they're scum with me when you have it CONFIRMED to you that I am a VT?

The last question was why it was ridiculous Nahdia was scum. I don't believe that ergo not answering that. Because it's dumb.

Nahdia if she was one of Gaster's followers isn't the person killing people at night more than likely. Notice how Gaster's followers flipped a different color than Gaster. That means it is highly likely that Nahdia is not a killer since Maxous likely wasn't one. Nahdia MIGHT be Gaster's follower but it is almost a certainty that she is not the person who killed CFJ. Which means that the killer is narrowed down.

We need to find the person killing townies repeatedly. We originally estimated 2 or 3 people if Maxous did anything were alignment swapped. So we are likely one or two more reds and a lone killer. This means three scum likely remain who are not you and not me, and IMHO not Nahdia.

[MathBlade]

Wasn't it you that initially suggested that the scum team might have been the ones culted?

I suggested a lot of things when I was trying to figure out what happened. However that theory becomes much less likely as townies were lynched repeatedly. If a scum team existed and had a culted member I think people would have had major changes in reads and a scum team lynch come up. The most likely scenario is a lone killer.

[MathBlade]

But why would a Nahdia red flip make me scum too? I'm not following that in the slightest.

Why is it not plausible to you that the killings are coming from the followers and Maxous had the kill prior as an SK/Cult Creator upon death type role, which got passed down to his faction?

I don't like that you're SK hunting over scum hunting. I believe the killings are coming from the scum faction, which we now have evidence actually exists and that their roles are irrelevant.

Because I checked you as VT post Maxous. If you were not a VT you wouldn't have given me a VT check. So Nahdia and you scum is ridiculous.

If the second case was true then there were 5 days of which would in essence be unimpeded recruitment. Only one of Gaster's followers has flipped. Meaning 4 would remain. If 4 would remain then SirCakez wouldn't have had any pressure at all and I would have been mislynched. The fact that SirCakez was lynched at all implies that the Gaster's followers are smaller in number.

I am scum hunting and SK hunting. We don't have proof of a "scum" in a traditional sense. We have a group of people no longer aligned with town post Maxous flip that may or may not have a kill.

Furthermore I don't see Maxous if he was the only scum in the entire game outright lying during the claiming period should that be the case. Someone else had to be doing the killing besides Maxous.

[MathBlade]

I also thought of a possibility since the fact that there is a specific person that supposedly brings dead players to wherever the dead people go:

It might be possible that Maxous is still in the game, just not publicly.

Sure....And he's writing all of my posts. /sarcasm

The mod posts who is alive in the Vote Counts. Mod doesn't directly lie. Maxous is dead.

[MathBlade]

Current Vote Count:
(0) Giovanni il Pellegrino
(2) MathBlade -- Almost50, Ankamius
(0) PeregrineV
(0) Nahdia
(0) Ankamius
(0) BigYoshiFan
(1) Almost50 -- MathBlade
(0) JaeReed

Not Voting: Giovanni il Pellegrino, PeregrineV, Nahdia, BigYoshiFan, JaeReed

See all the votes available. Assume Maxous is still alive he'd have a vote.

[MathBlade]

But why would a Nahdia red flip make me scum too? I'm not following that in the slightest.

Why is it not plausible to you that the killings are coming from the followers and Maxous had the kill prior as an SK/Cult Creator upon death type role, which got passed down to his faction?

I don't like that you're SK hunting over scum hunting. I believe the killings are coming from the scum faction, which we now have evidence actually exists and that their roles are irrelevant.

Oh and also Nahdia visited you. If she was a roleblocker it was a waste of a check. Like if Nahdia was scum it's quite possibly the worst move Nahdia could have done.

I'm killer hunting. I have to eliminate all non town. They are all of equal importance to me.

[MathBlade]

Because I checked you as VT post Maxous. If you were not a VT you wouldn't have given me a VT check. So Nahdia and you scum is ridiculous.

No, that means ME scum is ridiculous. Why did you say if Nahdia's scum it is with me? Why can Nahdia not be scum without it being with me?

Because scum wasted their roleblocker on a confirmed VT explicitly AFTER I said do whatever the fuck you want. They could have easily blocked someone else or only have pretended to do your request and you just live until the next day. The fact they visited you and only you means either they culted you which I doubt based on your posts or Nahdia is town.

[MathBlade]

CFJ believed that the follower faction could have existed prior to Maxous flip due to the way Cakez distributed his actions and the inventions he possessed, ftr.

I doubt this. Otherwise the N5 bit is no longer needed. His play pre and post Maxous was hella different looking back and probably why I was stuck in my townread.

[MathBlade]

I also thought of a possibility since the fact that there is a specific person that supposedly brings dead players to wherever the dead people go:

It might be possible that Maxous is still in the game, just not publicly.

Sure....And he's writing all of my posts. /sarcasm

The mod posts who is alive in the Vote Counts. Mod doesn't directly lie. Maxous is dead.

Are you forgetting that this is a bastard game and his role already has some bizarre elements to it?

Him only existing in a PT isn't outside the realm of possibility.

I doubt this. Otherwise having no way of eliminating Maxous being only a bulletproof townie I would instantly lose having no way to complete my wincon unless all Maxous followers have to die. Which in that case Maxous having a PT outside of the game would be irrelevant because I still have to eliminate all non townies and Maxous death is a side benefit. So two options exist there:

1) Maxous has a PT with his followers still and I have to eliminate all the followers then from my POV I don't give a fuck as I have to eliminate all non town and no followers would end the game.
2) Maxous is dead dead and don't give a fuck.
3) Maxous has a PT and even with no followers he has it. At that point I cannot complete my wincon and would be endgamed.

[MathBlade]

I also thought of a possibility since the fact that there is a specific person that supposedly brings dead players to wherever the dead people go:

It might be possible that Maxous is still in the game, just not publicly.

Sure....And he's writing all of my posts. /sarcasm

The mod posts who is alive in the Vote Counts. Mod doesn't directly lie. Maxous is dead.

Are you forgetting that this is a bastard game and his role already has some bizarre elements to it?

Him only existing in a PT isn't outside the realm of possibility.

I doubt this. Otherwise having no way of eliminating Maxous being only a bulletproof townie I would instantly lose having no way to complete my wincon unless all Maxous followers have to die. Which in that case Maxous having a PT outside of the game would be irrelevant because I still have to eliminate all non townies and Maxous death is a side benefit. So two options exist there:

1) Maxous has a PT with his followers still and I have to eliminate all the followers then from my POV I don't give a fuck as I have to eliminate all non town and no followers would end the game.
2) Maxous is dead dead and don't give a fuck.
3) Maxous has a PT and even with no followers he has it. At that point I cannot complete my wincon and would be endgamed.

[MathBlade]

In other words. Maxous might have a PT with his followers.

If he does it becomes fundamentally irrelevant to my wincon.

[MathBlade]

I am looking for the not town and trying to eliminate them. Either Maxous is eliminated or he isn't. If I have no way to eliminate Maxous then I would be endgamed becuase I would have no way to complete my wincon.

[MathBlade]

Furthermore if we deal with a cult since the start then the N5 action would be a dud which I hypothesized and I was told NOOOOOOOO that can't be a thing. So which is it guys? I do not believe in a cult since the start so there is likely something killing.

[MathBlade]

Let's take you one further. Let's assume there was a cult since the start of the game and Maxous did all of the killing as proposed. Yesterday there would be 4 culted people. It took 6 to lynch yesterday.

Those off of it were myself, Nahdia, SirCakez, and Ank.

Unless you believe that is the cult team, which ha ha ha ha, that's insane. Then someone on that would have to be bussing for that to be true. Which then brings up the question of why? They could have gone in here with it being true lylo. A bus doesn't make sense there.

No. The followers were likely invented N5 and something else doing the killing.

[MathBlade]

Furthermore you'd have to explain how Gio has an innocent on me when he himself would not be scum in that scenario. Please stop pitching scenarios that can't exist in order to have me be scum. It just hurts your brain, wastes our time, and is horribly unproductive.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Ankamius

Hood reasons made me realize Ank is better today.

[MathBlade]

I'm town JaeReed but let's do a thought exercise:

1) Assume I am scum preMaxous -- Why would I lynch Maxous of all people? Assume Gio town then I would have to be a godfather. Why would I as scum propose a godfather existing when no one was thinking it?
2) Assume I am scum postMaxous only -- How does Gio's check fail in that case and he still be town? Keep in mind godfather is not an option per SirCakez flip.

Ergo if you think I am scum you should be voting Gio.

Which case do you think I am and why?

[MathBlade]

I am not scum for disagreeing with the person killed. Furthermore his last words per you were to assume I am town. There is no way I would kill someone who townread me. Period. I am not scum. You are going through mental gynmastics after Shadowrun. Stop it. Your paranoia will doom us.

[MathBlade]

Which is it JaeReed?

Am I SirCakez's buddy or scum at the start of the game?

[MathBlade]

It isn't deflection. You have said I have am scum because I don't agree with CFJ.

I am not deflecting I am literally saying discuss me. I'm asking you to think about not just that I am scum but how I am scum. Because if I am scum it matters what kind of scum. I'm not scum but for case and point.

If I am SirCakez's buddy then what does that mean for the gamestate?
If I am not his buddy what does that mean?

I am not deflecting I'm asking you to go deeper.

[MathBlade]

math i really dont want an ank lynch sorry. i still feel they've been legit even through today.

Ank can be legit as 3P. He can say who he wants and who is against his plan. I still don't think he can vote nonTown. He never has on a single vote count but I will double check later today. I would expect someone genuinely vote hunting to hit scum at least once.

Being "legit" is not an explanation of why they aren't scum.

[MathBlade]

I think that Jae surviving gives more legitimacy to Nahdia's JK claim.

Agreed. I saw Nahdia visit JaeReed and JaeReed didn't die.

When did this happen?

Last night.

[MathBlade]

In other words. Maxous might have a PT with his followers.

If he does it becomes fundamentally irrelevant to my wincon.

So scum, in addition to their roles and PR's, could be still accessing the advice of the 3p player/leader to elevate the power of the scum team, while I can detect dogs on the lynch wagon?

I'm skeptical.

Are you even reading my posts? I said I was skeptical and irrelevant.

[MathBlade]

math i really dont want an ank lynch sorry. i still feel they've been legit even through today.

Is there a reason you did not Jailkeep CFJ to avoid his, like, death?

I don't like you either. This reeks of knowledge of the hood I just can't prove it.

[MathBlade]

We literally haven't gotten a single scum lynch until yesterday, which you were adamantly against as well.

Maxous is

not

a scum lynch.

He is a Not town lynch ergo scum.

[MathBlade]

18 Narna - psychiatrist. claims a clear on Nahdia and Massive. Notably claimed a guilty on town-Shiro

Why would Nahdia be scum when the flipped town psychcoloigst says they is not?

And this is to anybody trying to push the slot as scum, or even voting them.

And this leads me to the question of why

@Mathblade,

you followed Nahdia when she couldn't be the killer anyway.

The reason Nahdia can't be the killer is because of last night's results. I followed them because no proof any Jailkeep was successful.

[MathBlade]

I gotta go. The huge difference between Nahdia and Narna is Nahdia was proven to have failed every odd night.

[MathBlade]

Failed/not chosen*

[MathBlade]

The difference is Nahdia couldn't have killed CFJ.

And yes it is the rest of the scum have to be in Ank/PV/Almost50.

Lynching me before Gio is ridiculous. Y'all are moon logicking to get rid of the BP.

If you do mislynch me I expect Ank's head on a fucking platter tomorrow because there is no way his spec in the hood makes sense. He has been completely destructive and refused to vote his scumreads that weren't Town. Ank is deliberately scumming up this game. Lynch him.

[MathBlade]

Every fucking time without fail anytime I suggest lynching in those three the lynch always gets diverted to someone else. Always. I just don't have concrete proof like I did with Maxous or y'all would be going down.

[MathBlade]

I don't know what to say here. Gio clears can be trusted. You are acting as if there is a godfather when nothing has been proven to indicate it and lynching the one person scum can't kill.

We are literally fucked if you take Ank at face value. Like all it is rolling dice. His gut is so horribly wrong. Lynch Ank.

[MathBlade]

So I make sense as scum so that is why you scumread me.

And if I don't make sense then I am scum because I don't make sense.

Sooooo anyone see a problem here? Namely how Ank ever reads me as Town?

He literally has been saying I make no sense therefore I am scum.

This is Ank just wanting to lynch me.

[MathBlade]

My favorite part about this right now is that you discredited me before for not making calls based on information and the setup, and now you're discrediting me for making calls based on information and the setup.

I am saying you willfully ignored clears to try to lynch confTown.
Now you are not using the setup you are literally calling me a godfather so you can lynch me ignoring clears again.

I think you need to realize that everyone will see you are not Town when I flip green. You are here so I don't instant end game.

[MathBlade]

The this is implied a50 and when the amount of scum remaining is unknown I won't self vote as it may mean GG.

I think Ank is SK and PV+A50 (maybe one maybe both) are the scums. Leaning PV more than A50. I have lots of RL to deal with and I need to go to bed. Will be here as best I can.

[MathBlade]

You never actually addressed why Giovanni's clears should be trusted.

You never addressed why they can't other than "Godfather"

Proof is in your court and every single clear so far has turned true.

[MathBlade]

I think Ank is SK and PV+A50 (maybe one maybe both) are the scums.

Yes. We are Cakez scum p's but he opted to give YOU the toys over either of us. You know Cakez loves to do good even when he draws the villain.

He was forced. I forced him.

You will see. Then you will lynch Ank tomorrow.

Tinfoil

Nahdia culted JaeReed. Don't see a world where JaeReed goes back on calling me Town.

So without tinfoil it is Ank/PV/A50 scum in there.
Tinfoil Nahdia culted JaeReed Ank killer.

Either way Ank needs rope.

[MathBlade]

Consider those my last reads as probably will be hammered since there really isn't much to say against a bullshit made up Godfather claim and JaeReed just calling me dense for no apparent reason. I am AFK most of tomorrow good night.

[MathBlade]

@PV - Ank is proposing that I am a godfather variant that also returns Town to weak players when I am not Town.
I don't think Gio is lying. Much like Cakez I suspect roles won't change. Gio has been a player very rarely active much like you and he did crumb IMHO. But that is my opinion.

However on the off chance he is not Town he is still truth telling as I am Town.

[MathBlade]

I said you both are. Stop twisting my words.

Weak Gio targeted Maxous who is a claimed ascetic. That means the target never happened because ascetic.

[MathBlade]

@PV - Ank is proposing that I am a godfather variant that also returns Town to weak players when I am not Town.
I don't think Gio is lying. Much like Cakez I suspect roles won't change. Gio has been a player very rarely active much like you and he did crumb IMHO. But that is my opinion.

However on the off chance he is not Town he is still truth telling as I am Town.

Weak Gio targeted Maxous, and yet lives. If Ank wants to speculate that you are scum with Gio being town, he's welcome to do so, but I would suspect some for of redirector role before I think you are a GF. Your more likely BP scum.

Interesting how I have 2.5 times the number of posts Gio has, but am "very rarely active".

You mean a redirector that not a once seems to have come into play? You are literally making up things before Gio flips Town in order to still scumread me. Daaaaaaaaaamn.

[MathBlade]

Instead of scumhunting you and Ank make up a theory out of thin air.

First it is that I am a variant Godfather.
Then it is a redirector despite every single one of Narna's checks being right but Town derp.
Despite having a way to instantly kill Gio when he would have followed me but instead a redirector...

Please. That is bullshit.

Just stop. You are inventing ways to lynch me because you don't like me versus actually hunting. It is sad.

[MathBlade]

The role of Godfather exists to return false positives to cops.
The modifier of weak means "target scum and you die".
Does a weak role targeting a Godfather die?
If it's weak, yes, because the godfather is STILL mafia. Not Town, mafia.

I guess you answered it yourself later on. Gio did visit Maxous who was .. erm.. "a menace to Town" (to avoid the dichotomy of 3P vs Scum terminology). Gio didn't die. This means either this is not a standard weal role, or that Gio is lying. Either way it makes Mathblade more likely scum than not. If Gio is lying then he is covering for his scum p. If he has a tweaked role then his role doesn't die to "???" where "???" is unknown at this point, but it sure isn't beyond Skull who is well known to use non-standard and even tailored versions of roles.

Or Maxous was fucking ascetic as mentioned.

Stop this please. It is sad. Like really really sad.

[MathBlade]

Mafia isn't a popularity contest. It is a who is scum and who is Town contest and y'all seem to be bending over backwards to call me scum because you don't like I townread SirCakez. I am human and I am vocal deal with it. I won't ever be liked because I am me. So once you wake up and admit you are lynching Gio and me because you don't like me then it may be too late to switch to Ank and PV.

[MathBlade]

A) That isn't how ascetic works
B) If it was how you thought it worked you would have brought it up much earlier.

Ascetics are not a roleblocker they are untargetable.

[MathBlade]

Ascetic is a role modifier (though it can function as a role in its own right) that causes a player to be immune to all actions at Night except kills. More precisely, Ascetic reflexively Roleblocks all actions taken against them except kills.

Reflexively roleblocks meaning untargetable. The action never takes place.

[MathBlade]

A roleblock even if you argue it as such means Gio never visits Maxous meaning no result meaning Gio can still be weak still target Maxous get no result and still be alive.

Furthermore you cannot argue Gio Cakez scum because then nothing would happen N5.

God you make me sick with how much bullshit you spew.

[MathBlade]

When roleblocked a person goes no where and does nothing. That is the entire point! If Gio was targeting Maxous then he is roleblocked and goes nowhere and does nothing. The roleblock supercedes the follow in that case.

[MathBlade]

This role modifier is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. An Ascetic role cannot be targeted by anything other than a kill. A role attempting to target an Ascetic should be seen doing so by Trackers and Motion Detectors. Investigative roles (Cops, Role Cops, Watchers, etc) should receive "no result" if attempting to investigate an Ascetic role.

Untargetable meaning Gio doesn't die

[MathBlade]

Read the next paragraph. It means Gio never targeted Maxous if he is a weak follower and is telling the truth.

Furthermore Gio also confirmed Narna and Narna flipped Town. In multiball what scum makes that risk? Please do explain.

[MathBlade]

So for your point to have any merit at all Gio would have to be with Maxous before confirming Narna otherwise he was Town at that point and only would be converted post N5 but that possibility is eliminated as well.

[MathBlade]

This role modifier is considered Normal on mafiascum.net.

An Ascetic role cannot be targeted by anything other than a kill.

A role attempting to target an Ascetic should be seen doing so by Trackers and Motion Detectors. Investigative roles (Cops, Role Cops, Watchers, etc) should receive "no result" if attempting to investigate an Ascetic role.

Untargetable meaning Gio doesn't die

Commuter is optional and also works on kills.
Ascetic is rolemodifier not optional and doesn't work on kills. Untargetable is in the goddamn wiki.

[MathBlade]

This role modifier is considered Normal on mafiascum.net.

An Ascetic role cannot be targeted by anything other than a kill.

A role attempting to target an Ascetic should be seen doing so by Trackers and Motion Detectors. Investigative roles (Cops, Role Cops, Watchers, etc) should receive "no result" if attempting to investigate an Ascetic role.

Untargetable meaning Gio doesn't die

Commuter is optional and also works on kills.
Ascetic is rolemodifier not optional and doesn't work on kills. Untargetable is in the goddamn wiki.

[MathBlade]

So Gio cannot target Maxous per the wiki in size 100 for you if Maxous was indeed ascetic. Size 500 font for you.

[MathBlade]

This role modifier is considered Normal on mafiascum.net.

An Ascetic role cannot be targeted by anything other than a kill.

A role attempting to target an Ascetic should be seen doing so by Trackers and Motion Detectors. Investigative roles (Cops, Role Cops, Watchers, etc) should receive "no result" if attempting to investigate an Ascetic role.

Untargetable meaning Gio doesn't die

Commuter is optional and also works on kills.
Ascetic is rolemodifier not optional and doesn't work on kills. Untargetable is in the goddamn wiki.

[MathBlade]

What do you know Gio received a no result because he didn't target Maxous. Shocking. And because no target weak doesn't trigger.

[MathBlade]

This role modifier is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. An Ascetic role cannot be targeted by anything other than a kill. A role attempting to target an Ascetic should be seen doing so by Trackers and Motion Detectors. Investigative roles (Cops, Role Cops, Watchers, etc) should receive "no result" if attempting to investigate an Ascetic role.

Untargetable meaning Gio doesn't die

More precisely

, Ascetic

reflexively Roleblocks

all actions taken against them except kills.

Read the normal modifier section.

Gio can't fucking target Maxous and therefore weak would not trigger.

[MathBlade]

This role modifier is considered Normal on mafiascum.net.

An Ascetic role cannot be targeted by anything other than a kill.

A role attempting to target an Ascetic should be seen doing so by Trackers and Motion Detectors. Investigative roles (Cops, Role Cops, Watchers, etc) should receive "no result" if attempting to investigate an Ascetic role.

Untargetable meaning Gio doesn't die

Commuter is optional and also works on kills.
Ascetic is rolemodifier not optional and doesn't work on kills. Untargetable is in the goddamn wiki.

[MathBlade]

Weak is a role modifier that causes the player to die if targeting a mafia-aligned or otherwise anti-Town player. While this seems like an obvious drawback, this inherently makes all Weak roles investigative abilities with power akin to Cops - if a Weak role survives targeting a player, that player is confirmed Town.

Weak has to target.

Per wiki ascetic is not targetable with anything other than a kill.

Ergo Gio receiving no result on Maxous pretty much damn well confirms Maxous was ascetic.

[MathBlade]

Read the next paragraph. It means Gio never targeted Maxous if he is a weak follower and is telling the truth.

Furthermore Gio also confirmed Narna and Narna flipped Town. In multiball what scum makes that risk? Please do explain.

Why would you think it's multiball? The 2 kills a night every night except 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 7?

Why do you think scum-Gio is incapable of fakeclaiming the weak modifier?

Because Gio visiting Maxous and confirming Narna means he cannot have been aligned with Maxous at that time. He would have to be something unaligned with Maxous have the divine foresight to know Maxous was ascetic without being able to have anything to investigate said ascetic player.

Gio is town I am town.

[MathBlade]

So the only way Gio is scum with Maxous is if it happened during the N5 bullshit but if it happened during the N5 bullshit he would still be weak which means I am still Town!

[MathBlade]

The specific reason I doubt Giovanni is a town follower is because Giovanni would have been able to confirm the type of action Maxous took along with Narna. Combining that with Giovanni's opportunistic vote on Narna when they already had the innocent means something was up. Town PRs never vote their innocents.

So, if I am scum along with Maxous, why didn't I fake confirm the type of action he did? It is not hard to not say anything or, since Maxous had already said who he targeted when I said that something was up when I received his result, to confirm his type of action?

Narna's vote was not opportunistic, although it may seemed like it. It was just me saying "lay down the pitcforks and enough with the bullshit".

I am saying your vote is opportunistic.

Yes. Two town roleblocks in a game of this size yet no one hardly ever claimed it. Hell if you actually saw him perform a roleblocker action I would have expected you to scumread Nahdia hard.

I don't get it.

You are saying that I am scum with Maxous.

1) If I am a scum follower, why would I target my scumbuddy in the first place? Why would I claim my role? Why would I say that I saw my scumbuddy perform an interfering (that is how is called) action?

2) Since I was Townread and my weak claim was generally believed (and Maxous was further Townread because of it), why come out, after Maxous said who targeted during Day 2, and say that my action targetting him seems to have failed somehow?

-------

Regarding the vote, I will explain it one more time.

Narna has basically become synonymous with the Antichrist before you three replaced. Every Day Phase since Day 2 started with Narna and was about Narna. All logic was paused in order to lynch Narna. All meaningful discussion was paused because of Narna's existence in the game. Leonshade was lynched because of Narna. The game would not move on unless some people replaced (which didn't seem the case) or the boogeyman was out of the way. I was tired of the same mantra being repeated every single day.

1) The premise is bad. If you are scum the entire thing is poisonous and you are not required to have actually targeted your buddy or have told the truth about any of it. I think the claim is engineered to give Maxous a bit of legitimacy.

Has no one seriously questioned why no roleblock claims have come up with two claimed blockers in a huge game like this?

2) Because either A) Maxous is ascetic or B) again you are lying to give Maxous Credibility. Weak is a rare fake claim most people don't question that and it lets you "confirm" your buddy.

....Option A people. It was confirmed later and doubly so when Nahdia tried roleblocking Maxous.

SirCakez was converted overnight on N5 other way on D4 there is no reason SirCakez claims blocked which is what caught Maxous in an unreedemable lie.

[MathBlade]

Otherwise SirCakez stays silent and then we have "proof" Nahdia's Jailkeep works.

So the only way Gio is scum is if he was converted on N5. Not before which means Maxous was ascetic.

[MathBlade]

Oh my god.

We've already proven that Miller doesn't use the most standard variant, so we cannot assume that any other modifier used in the game is using the most standard variant either.
You're also assuming that the player you keep insisting is scum had to have been telling the truth, even though it is entirely possible that Maxous wanted to be lynched and covered for Giovanni.

No we didn't!

You are saying that. The wiki still holds true here people. The wiki says returns guilty. Narna town deeper and hit the guilty.

[MathBlade]

So SirCakez was converted N5 and that is what fucked either my read of them and why I hard core townread them.

Which means people are keeping their roles which is why the roles check out.

Oh damn I still wish Shiro was alive to hit Ank.

[MathBlade]

This role modifier is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. An Ascetic role cannot be targeted by anything other than a kill. A role attempting to target an Ascetic should be seen doing so by Trackers and Motion Detectors. Investigative roles (Cops, Role Cops, Watchers, etc) should receive "no result" if attempting to investigate an Ascetic role.

Untargetable meaning Gio doesn't die

More precisely

, Ascetic

reflexively Roleblocks

all actions taken against them except kills.

Read the normal modifier section.

Gio can't fucking target Maxous and therefore weak would not trigger.

Is this a normal game?

Spoiler: Hint

No.

Welcome to Theme Park.

Gio can't be blocked unless he targets.

Fine since the mod has already broken rule 23)

@mod: Assume a weak follower submits an action to a nonTown ascetic what is the result the weak follower would receive and would they live?

[MathBlade]

Weak is a role modifier that causes the player to die if targeting a mafia-aligned or otherwise anti-Town player. While this seems like an obvious drawback, this inherently makes all Weak roles investigative abilities with power akin to Cops - if a Weak role survives targeting a player, that player is confirmed Town.

Weak has to target.

Per wiki ascetic is not targetable with anything other than a kill.

Ergo Gio receiving no result on Maxous pretty much damn well confirms Maxous was ascetic.

More precisely, Ascetic reflexively Roleblocks all actions taken against them except kills.

Further down it says weak don't target.

[MathBlade]

Weak is a role modifier that causes the player to die if targeting a mafia-aligned or otherwise anti-Town player. While this seems like an obvious drawback, this inherently makes all Weak roles investigative abilities with power akin to Cops - if a Weak role survives targeting a player, that player is confirmed Town.

Weak has to target.

Per wiki ascetic is not targetable with anything other than a kill.

Ergo Gio receiving no result on Maxous pretty much damn well confirms Maxous was ascetic.

Pedit ascetic can't be targeted...derp

More precisely, Ascetic reflexively Roleblocks all actions taken against them except kills.

Further down it says weak don't target.

[MathBlade]

ALL CHECKS

return as mafia-aligned.

ALL
CHECKS

Guess what??? A rolecop doesn't return Mafia or scum aligned!! It says just your role!!

[MathBlade]

No it takes more than that.

SirCakez is a Gaster follower.
Either he was converted preMaxous or post Maxous. Since they have a different color rolePM it has to be post Maxous. Furthermore no way SirCakez as the same alignment as Maxous exposes Maxous as a liar.

[MathBlade]

That only sets up Maxous to be lynched.

Purple is not red. This means SirCakez and Maxous were not on the same alignment!

[MathBlade]

ALL CHECKS

return as mafia-aligned.

ALL
CHECKS

Guess what??? A rolecop doesn't return Mafia or scum aligned!! It says just your role!!

What does this have to do with anything I just said?

It is a check against you that would prove you are full of shit.

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE: Mathblade

I want hammer.

Yay and Ank only hammers town again.

God damn you all.

If Gio is scum converted N5 is the only way.

Nahdia is confirmed not killer.
JaeReed is confirmed VT.

[MathBlade]

At least wait until Skull comes back and answers the bolder question.

[MathBlade]

you're all arguing things that, with the assortment of facts we have, could potentially be wrong or right, but we can't know. but you're acting like we can know. agree to disagree and move on please.

I will not agree to scum making up literal bullshit in order to mislynch me.

Maxous was an ascetic. SirCakez was only converted N5 and JaeReed is a VT and Nahdia is a confirmed not killer.

These are facts.

[MathBlade]

Explain how Nahdia's block of N4 on Maxous fails if Maxous is not ascetic.

If we all agree amaxous was an ascetic roleblocker Gio lives. We just have to wait for the bolder question to come back.

[MathBlade]

you're all arguing things that, with the assortment of facts we have, could potentially be wrong or right, but we can't know. but you're acting like we can know. agree to disagree and move on please.

I will not agree to scum making up literal bullshit in order to mislynch me.

Maxous was an ascetic. SirCakez was only converted N5 and JaeReed is a VT and Nahdia is a confirmed not killer.

These are facts.

Why are you trusting scum?

I am not.

I am saying that there is no way SirCakez would leave Maxous out to dry if he knew Maxous was scum.

Therefore the only possibility is SirCakez and he were of differing alignments D4.

[MathBlade]

they're "confirmed" VT via a neapolitan.

Stop that. The instant I am mislynched they are confirmed more than stone.

[MathBlade]

you're all arguing things that, with the assortment of facts we have, could potentially be wrong or right, but we can't know. but you're acting like we can know. agree to disagree and move on please.

I thought we did, but if someone is trying to base EVERY SINGLE POST AND CONCLUSION on what they THINK is right, I gets arguey.

That is what you are doing to frame me.

I am using facts to prove you wrong one I am waiting on Skull's reply to shove that smugness down your throat.

[MathBlade]

This role modifier is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. An Ascetic role cannot be targeted by anything other than a kill. A role attempting to target an Ascetic should be seen doing so by Trackers and Motion Detectors. Investigative roles (Cops, Role Cops, Watchers, etc) should receive "no result" if attempting to investigate an Ascetic role.

Untargetable meaning Gio doesn't die

More precisely

, Ascetic

reflexively Roleblocks

all actions taken against them except kills.

Read the normal modifier section.

Gio can't fucking target Maxous and therefore weak would not trigger.

Is this a normal game?

Spoiler: Hint

No.

Welcome to Theme Park.

Gio can't be blocked unless he targets.

Fine since the mod has already broken rule 23)

@mod: Assume a weak follower submits an action to a nonTown ascetic what is the result the weak follower would receive and would they live?

[MathBlade]

you're all arguing things that, with the assortment of facts we have, could potentially be wrong or right, but we can't know. but you're acting like we can know. agree to disagree and move on please.

I will not agree to scum making up literal bullshit in order to mislynch me.

Maxous was an ascetic. SirCakez was only converted N5 and JaeReed is a VT and Nahdia is a confirmed not killer.

These are facts.

Why are you trusting scum?

I am not.

I am saying that there is no way SirCakez would leave Maxous out to dry if he knew Maxous was scum.

Therefore the only possibility is SirCakez and he were of differing alignments D4.

It's confirmed they are not the same alignment.

Correct. So if SirCakez knew Maxous was scum even if they had a different alignment why say he was roleblocked? Therefore SirCakez couldn't know. Ergo he wasnt culted and was only created post N5.

Same applies to Gio which means Gio had to be Town on D2 when he claimed funkiness with results.

[MathBlade]

I am damn disappointed in you all.

They plan a mislynch on Gio then a mislynch on me.

Ank only hammers and votes Town. This is shit. Utter bullshit.

[MathBlade]

Otherwise SirCakez stays silent and then we have "proof" Nahdia's Jailkeep works.

So the only way Gio is scum is if he was converted on N5. Not before which means Maxous was ascetic.

I don't care if her jailkeep works.

I care she can't kill. Making her not scum.

Which after my mislynch Nahdia is confirmed not to have killed CFJ.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Almost50

I'll keep cutting through the bullshit claim that I can't vote scum, then.

That only applies if you wait for a VC after each vote. Sort of like when yoshi "hammered" so far you haven't proven shit.

[MathBlade]

It also means since Gio claimed D2 funkiness with results that if Gio knew Maxous was scum and was in communication with him (the prevailing theory) why reveal Maxous's possible asceticness D2?

[MathBlade]

Otherwise SirCakez stays silent and then we have "proof" Nahdia's Jailkeep works.

So the only way Gio is scum is if he was converted on N5. Not before which means Maxous was ascetic.

I don't care if her jailkeep works.

I care she can't kill. Making her not scum.

Which after my mislynch Nahdia is confirmed not to have killed CFJ.

no see i could be a special magic ninja that shows as visiting someone other than who i kill.

That would go against moderator intentionally lying and a tracker wouldn't work then.

[MathBlade]

Yoshi is either scum turned N5 like Maxous who discharged his thing to protect new cult buddies or just Town. Strongly suspect the latter.

JaeReed is confirmed town after my mislynch.
Nahdia barring scum stupidity is the kill tonight after being confirmed not killer and is a JK.

The only thing that can be pushed without likely hitting scum is me and Gio together.

[MathBlade]

Like SirCakez by Maxous*

[MathBlade]

Or Maxous was fucking ascetic as mentioned.

That's as good a theory as any. If it's not mod confirmed it is just a theory.. a proposition, not a fact. It was MAXOUS who suggested he was ascetic, yet he also suggested he was BP. What are the chances that there TWO BP roles in the game do you reckon?? Yes, I thought so...

So, if we opt to believe Maxous you are most likely lying! If we opt to believe your BP claim then Maxous was the one lying, and if he was lying about his BP he might as well have been lying about being ascetic, and it could have been done to cover up for Gio, yes.. which makes Gio scum I acknowledge, but then Gio is also protecting you so you are scum.

You see, every scenario I try to consider ends up with you being scum in it. You could be scum with Nahdia, or you could be scum with Gio, or you could be scum with both of them, or you could be scum with Nahdia while Ank is the SK, but the one thing in common in all of these theories is that you are scum.

Now ENOUGH WITH SETUP SPECULATION, and let's do the good old scum hunting thing. X defends Y and pushes A & B. A knows he's Town and Town reads B. They both vote Y and Y flips red. It is only natural that A now turns to X who claims to have an infallible logic and heavily scum read them. You try to switch places with me here and see if you would think twice about lynching me had I been the one defending Cakez AND pushing you instead 9while acknowledging you are likely Town no less), let alone having been the one SCUM CAKEZ picked to give toys to, not once but twice or thrice.

I will ask you one more time: WHY would SCUM give YOU .. ANYTHING? Why would Scum hand "Town" a Tracker shot? Why would they give them a Neapolitan shot? Was there a third toy you got? I don't recall and I'm too lazy to actually look it up, so I'll settle for these 2. EXPLAIN what the scum motive is in handing "Town" (or more to it, someone who is not from the same faction) a Neapolitan check and a Tracker ability? DO NOT DEFLECT. DO NOT CHANGE THE SUBJECT. THESE ARE STRAIGHT FORWARD QUESTIONS AND I WANT STRAIGHT FORWARD ANSWERS.

I suggested ascetic when I replaced in. Stop suggesting they made it up.

Defending someone means they have a read. It is townie to not go with the group mentality and stick to your guns. You X Y push shit is wine and means nothing.

I got toys twice not thrice both after N5.

Andrius who is JaeReed is conf town and got toys twice.

I got the toys because if he didn't give them to me because I was widely townread post Maxous lynch it would be a scumclaim.

[MathBlade]

oh boy howdy i'm finally going to die tonight? thank GOD.

I wish I could die tonight but instead I have to do this thing called play to wincon and not be mislynched and point people towards scum. So tomorrow once people recalibrate people will realize I am Town.

[MathBlade]

Oh my god.

We've already proven that Miller doesn't use the most standard variant, so we cannot assume that any other modifier used in the game is using the most standard variant either.

You're also assuming that the player you keep insisting is scum had to have been telling the truth, even though it is entirely possible that Maxous wanted to be lynched and covered for Giovanni.

This, right here. This is what I've been thinking reading up to this post.

Again this cannot be the case. If it were Gio never paints Maxous as ascetic in the first place on D2.

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE: Mathblade

I want hammer.

What do you get when you do?

I wouldn't trust a thing Ank says.

[MathBlade]

Odds are 100% I am. Can't speak to Maxous's but I find it likely so N5 shit doesn't go off early and PV/A50/Ank has an SK amongst them.

By the same token 2 BP
Can ask two millers

[MathBlade]

Didn't you at one time say that PV had to be a 3P?

That was before N5 shit was proven to be a flip of alignment only with SirCakez flip.

Everyone now has a confirmed role now it is a matter of alignment.

[MathBlade]

But not followers. They get no result and because it is not targeted (the prior sentence) weak doesn't trigger. Omg are we reading the same paragraph??

Cannot be targeted is cannot be targeted but are seen doing so. Wtf? Like seriously the whole point of ascetic is lack of target.

[MathBlade]

It literally says Ascetic cannot be targeted.

That means weak cannot fucking fire as it doesn't have a target.

[MathBlade]

If I think I'm understanding what you're saying, then you're making conclusions assuming that you're town and that Maxous did not want to be lynched. I don't know... maybe the optimal play for the scumteam was to have Maxous lynched. You're pushing these assumptions and forcing them as "facts" and it is confusing the shit out of me.

I am town is a fact. To you no. To me yes.

Why would a scumteam of Gio and Cakez that had 0 suspicion come in and lynch Maxous? Furthermore a me+Gio+Cakez team not lynch Narna there?

Yes I am assuming Maxous didn't want to be lynched.
If it was the optimal play for Maxous to be lynched explain not a single one of them pushing Maxous even after I replaced in and pushed Maxous.

[MathBlade]

So SirCakez was converted N5

GREAT! Now we're getting somewhere. He then gave you TWO checks. YOU.. not anyone else. He was lynched and he flipped red and the game didn't end, meaning he was not the last scum in the game. Now why would he give YOU stuff and not his own buddies?

Wait! If you already responded to my previous post you need not repeat yourself. I have yet to get to that point, so bear with me.

Yes because on N5 not doing so is a scum claim.
N6 is because if he doesn't I don't townread him anymore and that is his only hope of not being mislynched. I said I was wavering in the hood and there was a plan to confirm Nahdia that required them to give me a toy. Again not doing so is scum claiming since he wasn't in the hood and didn't know the plan fell apart.

[MathBlade]

SirCakez was leashed.

SirCakez had to be converted N5 which means at the start of the game there were likely only two maybe three antitowns. I have a hunch on the third but it isn't based in fact so leaving that aside for the moment. An SK likely Ank and Maxous.

That is it. It is why there were struggles with mislynches. Then we finally lynch Maxous and then SirCakez + X others turn into a faction of Not town but can't kill and Ank keeps killing.

[MathBlade]

@math I think it's Gio/Narna/A50/Max/one of the lurkers (prob the massive slot)

VOTE: maxous

Actually, SirCakez DID vote Maxous and did not unvote up to Maxous' lynch.

That is only after severe hand wrangling and didn't push it.

And note there is still no way SirCakez out Maxous as a lair if SirCakez knows Maxous is scum.

[MathBlade]

Uhhhhhh, weird coincidence or something scum-related?

No valid counter theories. Again because there is nothing to counter a caught liar. He was confirmed not Town. I was going to keep going til he was lynched and even with him claiming it was hard to get a majority because Narna was so goddamn entrenched.

[MathBlade]

Day reset he had to be lynched twice. Whinch VC do you mean Yoshi?

[MathBlade]

That is what I am thinking.

I am also thinking A50 is a jester that doesn't want to be shot so that makes their wincon.

Ank is SK.

PV I think is the other culted.

That is my tinfoil hat theory.

[MathBlade]

Well A50 has made his lynch pretty unappealing too.

Not really. He has voted himself a couple times. It is only others that suggest not voting A50.

[MathBlade]

HOLY SHIT 9 PAGES
First post I promised:
IN THIS WORLD...IT'S KILL OR BE KILLED

Soft crumbs a killing role.

[MathBlade]

So from the looks of it, many of our powers are based on lynching. Had no idea I signed on for Voting Mafia. Would have noted this earlier, but had other games to attend to.

Powers based on voting.

[MathBlade]

Shoot me and it'll be your last shot.

Nope never mind. A50 can be derptown.

[MathBlade]

So just Ank and Maxous only antitowns at start of the game. With Maxous lynch now Ank has more he can't hammer.

Ank can probably only hammer town.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Almost50

I'll keep cutting through the bullshit claim that I can't vote scum, then.

That only applies if you wait for a VC after each vote. Sort of like when yoshi "hammered" so far you haven't proven shit.

LOL

Is this a serious post?

Yep. I am still checking VCs to see if any ever had a Maxous or SirCakez vote. I don't think they ever did.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Almost50

I'll keep cutting through the bullshit claim that I can't vote scum, then.

That only applies if you wait for a VC after each vote. Sort of like when yoshi "hammered" so far you haven't proven shit.

STOP SPEWING JUNK AND READ THE GODDMAN THREAD!

So far Ankamius APPEARED VOTING ON A VC on Gio, Math, PV & Nahdia. He is now waiting for the next VC to show him voting ME. He will then move his vote to either Yoshi or JaeReed, and after another VC shows his vote there he will vote the other. I'm sure he is willing to even vote himself afterwards just to shut you up.

All people I townread except PV. And I need to see if that PV vote is post N5. It is completely serious.

[MathBlade]

If ever, at any time, I end up flipping, Narna and Nahdia are confscum.

I don't expect that will happen unless a hammer gets stolen out from under me, in which case that person should be flipped third after those two.

Furthermore what happened to this. Narna is conf town

[MathBlade]

Does that matter if he can prove he's voted everyone here?

He has voted only Town with every vote so far I see. If PV isn't post N5 IMHO still applies.

[MathBlade]

So are you assuming that SirCakez was lone-scum?

No I am not.

I am saying PV and SirCakez got new alignments N5 and you are an SK.

[MathBlade]

@Math:

So EAT THE GOFFAMN ROPE QUIETLY. You claim all of Gio, Nahdia and JR will be confirmed with your flip, yet you refuse to go down CONFIRMING THREE TOWNIES?? I can't even begin to fathom a town driven thought process that would lead you to refus to b lynched in exchange of confirming not one, and not two, but THREE players to be Town-aligned!

I don't eat rope quietly when people have set up for a Gio mislynch even when I am townfirm.

Not only do I have to confirm people I have to make sure it sticks after my death because all of you are fucking lying about mechanics to try to scumify people.

Gio is town and I am town.

Those three need to dissect themselves and lynch in there. That won't happen if I quit fighting.

[MathBlade]

So are you assuming that SirCakez was lone-scum?

No I am not.

I am saying PV and SirCakez got new alignments N5 and you are an SK.

So your assertion that I can't vote scum was fluff?

Again I just stated it is not fluff. Still going through VCs but I don't see you voting PV post N5 and showing on a VC.

I think A50 may be culted but probably Town but not scum at start of game.
PV probably culted N5.
Ank is just SK or cult. No doubt about it.

[MathBlade]

PeregrineV is still super town, by the way.

No he isn't. Just like I am Town. You will let me guess magically see PV scum tomorrow and never vote him. Of course.

[MathBlade]

If ever, at any time, I end up flipping, Narna and Nahdia are confscum.

I don't expect that will happen unless a hammer gets stolen out from under me, in which case that person should be flipped third after those two.

Furthermore what happened to this. Narna is conf town

Because Narna's result makes no fucking sense. We established that forever ago and the fact that Narna flipped town still doesn't change the fact that it makes no fucking sense.

Town derp. Done. Like I said and people tried to discredit.

Each time I say something truthful mechanically someone tries to discredit me.

SirCakez had to be culted N5. No doubt in my mind.

[MathBlade]

Then we finally lynch Maxous and then SirCakez + X others turn into a faction of Not town but can't kill and Ank keeps killing.

By the way, does anybody else see what is wrong with this?

Please tell the class. Oh so incorrect Ank.

[MathBlade]

oh boy howdy i'm finally going to die tonight? thank GOD.

I wish I could die tonight but instead I have to do this thing called play to wincon and not be mislynched and point people towards scum. So tomorrow once people recalibrate people will realize I am Town.

What you're doing is NOT playing for a "Town" win con by any means. It's a SURVIVALIST attitude at it's prime. Going down to CONFIRM THREE TOWNIES is what any one with a brain would consider playing for a Town win con under the circumstances. 3 conf!Town in a 7-player setup is overkill. In other words, Town win locked.

To me it is Town win locked.

However to everyone else it isn't.

I have to keep fighting until people see it and get rid of Ank for we lose.

[MathBlade]

I have to fight until people believe me otherwise Town loses. Therefore I have to demonstrate not only that I am Town but how Ank an PV are misrepresenting mechanics to make sure conftown stay conf. Otherwise Ank and PV will run this game and we lose.

[MathBlade]

If I am not believed then after my mislynch comes Nahdia death.
After Nahdia death comes Gio mislynch.
After Gio mislynch comes JaeReed death.

This leaves PV Ank Almost50 and Yoshi alive.

This means unless Ank is lynched we lose.

[MathBlade]

Thanks for admitting you did.

Secondly because CFJ believed I was Town.

[MathBlade]

Are you serious, Mathblade?

1 Third party with the only nightkill in the game
1 Third party that cults two people when they die
18 town

Really?

Yes. Very serious.

[MathBlade]

Outside chance of A50 or Yoshi being culted but other than that I don't see any.

JaeReed is conf VT
Nahdia is confirmed to visit JaeReed and nothing happen

Killer has to be inside the hood to know CFJ wouldn't be protected. You are literally the only person who could kill CFJ and that will be clear with my town flip.

[MathBlade]

Willing to keep fighting serious even though I am just waiting for someone to vote me serious so then Ank doesn't get hammers serious.

There were very few if any antitowns at the start of the game.

[MathBlade]

The only way Gio is scum is post N5 remember that.

[MathBlade]

Willing to keep fighting serious even though I am just waiting for someone to vote me serious so then Ank doesn't get hammers serious.

There were very few if any antitowns at the start of the game.

Antitowns besides Maxous and Ank*

Merged thoughts

[MathBlade]

No one else is going to be the lynch. I am mislynched either way. I suspect Ank is 3P and not Town. It is literally the last thing I can do to help Town.

[MathBlade]

This game insists on misgendering me
Insists on inventing bullshit theories not supported my mechanics
Insists on treating Ank as above scrutiny because "miller" when there is already one miller flipped

Like the only way JaeReed is not VT is if Nahdia culted them and became a cult leader N5 which is insane. So JaeReed is conf town. Ergo Nahdia is by visiting them.

Nahdia is confirmed not killer. Gio is only cult if done on N5 in that case why does he confirm Town?

Fucking lynch Ank.

[MathBlade]

By mechanics*

[MathBlade]

You see absolutely no problem with the fact that I willingly claimed Chara without any provocation in the neighborhood, combined with the fact that I also claimed that my role revolves around kills at the same time?

You see absolutely no problem with the fact that the setup is completely and utterly broken beyond belief if I get lynched day one? Especially since the very first thing I did when the game began was claim modifiers that tend to be policy lynched before LyLo (aka Hated)?

You see absolutely no problem with the fact that I forcefully put my own skin on the line for Shiro when she had a guilty result claimed on her?

You see absolutely no problem with the fact that I was outwardly scumreading Maxous for around 2 day phases, then started arguing against his lynch only after he was confirmed to not be able to win with town?

You see no problem with how I substantiated infinite bulletproof when under no pressure to do so?
Answer to your question you're a liar.

You see no problem with just assuming I am scum when everyone has a decoy?
Answer to your question you are a liar but you would be a 1 shot lynchproof liar. Or it turns into a mafia game without kills. That is a thing and they have to race to find Maxous.

You see no problem with how I stuck my head out for Narna after the Shiro town flip?
You have to play both sides.

Because you needed what ever happened afterward to befriend you.

[MathBlade]

Claiming miller underneath no pressure to do so doesn't make you Town. It just makes you someone with a scum aligned check would avoid. Shiro however should have checked you because that isn't a scum aligned check.

[MathBlade]

Insists on treating Ank as above scrutiny because "miller" when there is already one miller flipped

When did this happen?

The entire fucking game.

[MathBlade]

Again you can insult me and put it in all caps but it doesn't change facts. Gio is weak and would not have died there.

No role targets an ascetic it is untargetable. That is it. Therefore Gio doesn't die. And Gio is therefore opposite alignments as Maxous and therefore has to be Town until N5 or later.

I will not replace out because you don't understand mechanics.

[MathBlade]

You can vote me and I hammer or you can continue your bullshit which people will see as bullshit when I flip town.

Period.

Or you can convince people Gio is a better lynch of which I will take no part except to deny Ank hammers as I don't trust him.

[MathBlade]

if i was a mod resolving actions i wouldn't have a weak death trigger if the user was roleblocked. just saying.

I would not have a weak trigger when it doesn't target. Weak requires a target and an ascetic cannot be targeted.

[MathBlade]

Does anyone not realize the convenience of this NOW? Not when Gio first proposed it? Cmon this is such a horrible setup job it is bullshit.

[MathBlade]

Yes because on N5 not doing so is a scum claim.

How so??

N6 is because if he doesn't I don't townread him anymore and that is his only hope of not being

mislynched

.

Guys, I officially give up. They still call it a mislynch and expect anyone to take them seriously. I must've been the definition of a lunatic to have evn tried to reason with Math under the circumstances. I'm stepping out of this thread before I say something I will regret later on.

See you later.

Because I was the spear head of the Maxous lynch. I was so obvTown my ass displayed it proudly.

Fuck autocorrect on the last one. It should have said lynched and I didn't notice. The proper word there should be lynched. That was a mistake.

[MathBlade]

But not followers. They get no result and because it is not targeted (the prior sentence) weak doesn't trigger. Omg are we reading the same paragraph??

Cannot be targeted is cannot be targeted but are seen doing so. Wtf? Like seriously the whole point of ascetic is lack of target.

I can't believe you're that obtuse. ANY FUCKING ROLE that TARGETS AN ASCETIC.. would be TRACKED OR MOTION DETECTED as HAVING TARGETED THE ASCETIC.

ANY ROLE

. Now I don't care if that

OTHER ROLE

would not be detected "performing an action" on said Ascetic. That's IRRELEVANT.

The FOLLOWER .. TARGETTING AN ASCETIC .. WOULD BE TRACKED TO THAT ASCETIC.. BY A FUCKING TRACKER, and THUS .. THE FOLLOWER DID TARGET THE ACSETIC.. THEN THEY GOT ROLEBLOCKED. IF WE HAD A TRACKER THEY WOULD HAVE TOLD US THEY TRACKED GIO TO MAXOUS REGARDLESS OF THE RESULT GIO GETS.

This is what the wiki says. "Any role targeting the ascetic would be seen as doing so by a Tracker or a Motion Detector" thus the "targeting" part occurs, but not the actual action because THAT is what gets roleblocked.

In other words: Gio leaves home at night and does arrive to Maxous place. That's the targeting part. He then tries to find out what Maxous has been up to. That's the action part. He fails. That's the Ascetic/Roleblock part.

Now being weak would "normally" make him die once he arrives at Maxous place regardless. THAT was not the case. However, we do know that if he is truthful that the targeting did occur, thus it's a non-standard weak modifier that's in use. That or Gio is lying.

Now if you still can't get it I suggest you request to replace out because this is becoming too much for me to handle, quite honestly. Like, not a single statement do you interpret accurately for the whole damn day is way too much to take. Whether you're doing it on purpose or if you really can't speak English like AT ALL isn't the problem here. The problem is the fact that it IS happening, and the game is seriously no longer fun when one cannot communicate with you not even on the level of a 5 year old.

The wiki clearly states the ascetic is untargetable. Set aside the results a tracker would get. It is why ascetics always claim D1. It is so Town doesn't get bit in the ass by discrepancies. The ascetic is untargetable which means weak would not fire.

[MathBlade]

You can vote me if you like or insult me but if I am in a normal game with weak and ascetic interacting I always would have weak live and have no regrets about it.

[MathBlade]

Omg JaeReed why?

*dies a bit inside*

Scum Nahdia would have voted me ages ago and let me hammer.

[MathBlade]

Omg JaeReed why?

*dies a bit inside*

Scum Nahdia would have voted me ages ago and let me hammer.

? Why would scum Nahdia do that? You're clearly pocketed if Nahdia is scum, and flooding the thread with your arguments with everyone which is distracting the thread from scumhunting.

Because at that point if it is a faction I had conftowned them and as soon as I flip Nahdia scum could rip through the game and blame their not death on wifom get another mislynch then probably lynch Nahdia as too much wifom to not be believed.

[MathBlade]

But that is assuming that scum don't already win by then.

So Nahdia is almost certainly town.

[MathBlade]

Assuming 1 kill a night we have at most three more days left

8 today becomes 6 tomorrow becomes 4 day after no lynch as is standard then 3.

Wake's game did it with 42 and the SK won Ank.

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE: BigYoshiFan

I think I've made my point about the votes.

Nope not until Almost50 and PV.

[MathBlade]

Quite competent actually. People suspect more actual scum than present so they rip themselves apart.

[MathBlade]

Look I didn't hammer Maxous because I suspect he is evil..Evil people if you exist please don't harm me. <<That is how it happens.

[MathBlade]

Then I keep fighting.

[MathBlade]

I keep fighting til they understand the mechanics that make them conftown. Or someone adequately explains how they aren't which hasn't happened yet. Nahdia didn't kill CFJ.

That means they are Jailkeeper. If they are Jailkeeper then no scum Jailkeeper forgets a submission on D3.

Therefore the only way Nahdia is scum is post N5. Post N5 Nahdia doesn't bus SirCakez.

[MathBlade]

Shit they didn't bus SirCakez.

[MathBlade]

You're still scum you need to hammer scum. You haven't and until you do I don't believe you.

[MathBlade]

And where is Gio? I am phone posting.

[MathBlade]

But then again post N5 Nahdia wouldn't call attention to the fact they didn't block either. It is dumb as any alignment to not block. Did they block me suspecting I was scum and then claim no one when I had no action? It would explain their reluctance on voting me and how they didn't want to give a shit about the argument.

[MathBlade]

But no I was obvTown then.

Ugh head hurts.

Ank is scum. Lynch him.

[MathBlade]

Andrius who is JaeReed is conf town and got toys twice.

I got toys once.

SIRCakez said he targeted you twice RB'd once whoops.

[MathBlade]

Then we finally lynch Maxous and then SirCakez + X others turn into a faction of Not town but can't kill and Ank keeps killing.

By the way, does anybody else see what is wrong with this?

I do. We had TWO NKs at one night and we know which was yours, but I said I would step away from the thread so I couldn't care less to comment on anything anymore.

We did. Doesn't mean Ank didn't kill both people. He is a claimed homicidal maniac and so far flavor matches up with role pretty damn well.

[MathBlade]

I keep fighting til they understand the mechanics that make them conftown. Or someone adequately explains how they aren't which hasn't happened yet. Nahdia didn't kill CFJ.

That means they are Jailkeeper. If they are Jailkeeper then no scum Jailkeeper forgets a submission on D3.

Therefore the only way Nahdia is scum is post N5. Post N5 Nahdia doesn't bus SirCakez.

Yes, the only way Nahdia is scum is post N5, but because of Narna's check on them, not because they forgot to submit an action. Forgetting to submit an action is NAI, as Cakez proved, because he also claimed to have forgotten to submit an action.

IIRC Nahdia wasn't thrilled on the Cakey lynch either?

You're still scum you need to hammer scum. You haven't and until you do I don't believe you.

This is a clear tunnel and confbias now, Math.

Tunnel yes. Confbias in that Ank refuses to hammer scum. No. that is a fact.

[MathBlade]

You're still scum you need to hammer scum. You haven't and until you do I don't believe you.

Not like you believing me or not means anything since you're scum that has decided that trying to mislynch me is their only chance.

This is a tunnel. Of which you as non Town will pay for.

[MathBlade]

Ank refused to hammer Maxous calling it a trap.
Ank refused to hammer Cakez for let me look up Why again.

Now Ank wants to hammer me. Notice a pattern?

[MathBlade]

I didn't hammer Cake because I didn't support the lynch. I wanted to lynch either Mathblade or Giovanni.

Bullshit.

[MathBlade]

He is a claimed homicidal maniac and so far flavor matches up with role pretty damn well.

Alphys flipped Gaster's Follower, scum.

Alphys in the game is not evil, and I don't think she has anything to do with Gaster?

To be fair I haven't played the game though, just watched let's plays because I figure I'll suck at the gameplay part.

I mean flavor matches with roles not alignment.

Chara being a homicidal maniac is not likely town.

Furthermore if we go with your theory Nahdia scum and I am insane I think Nahdia wouldn't want to lynch Ank because Ank would be killing for them in that case.

[MathBlade]

Ank refused to hammer Maxous calling it a trap.
Ank refused to hammer Cakez for let me look up Why again.

Now Ank wants to hammer me. Notice a pattern?

My role functions exactly the same as it always has.

Mathblade is almost certainly scum. The meltdown last phase looks significantly worse after a SirCakez scum flip.

And you never voted Scum yet. Pre Or Post Maxous you have never voted scum or any kind. I don't like you.

I genuinely read SirCakez as town. Misreads happen. What matters is adjusting and fixing it.

I can't even take that assertion seriously after looking back on this.

Misreads do happen yes. I have had one. I admitted it. You have had the entire game along with ignoring factual evidence. Huge difference. And you are doing it again in the case of Gio.

[MathBlade]

I mean flavor matches with roles not alignment.

Chara being a homicidal maniac is not likely town.

really

Combined with how Nahdia wanted your lynch.

Look at me I am Undyne the Undying. BP matches flavor.
My gf in the game Alphys is a scientist ergo inventor.

Nahdia's flavor which they crumbed is likely Jailkeeper.
JaeReed as Frisk VT makes sense.