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Post Post #1150 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:08 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

I like walls when they have spoiler tags, then it makes me happy because everything is neat and my OCD is happy.
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Post Post #1151 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:10 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

gamma asking questions to posts on page 2
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Post Post #1152 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:10 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 1096, Human Sequencer wrote:Really conflicted on Wraith. Old multiball point still stands, and if multiball is confirmed he's obvscum to me. But his catchup walls look genuine and are towny as fuck.
He could just be better than me though lmoa

RB, grey, Creature, Dunn, what do you think of Wraith and why?
I wouldn't lynch him today
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Post Post #1153 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:10 pm

Post by Wraith »

I usually do try to format why Walls. It's just these catch-up ones were SoC where I typed my thoughts as I read. Hence the warning
Show
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Post Post #1154 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:11 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Now take a look at my 1055 @hs
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Post Post #1155 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:17 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

In post 1065, SlickDilinger wrote:Thanks for the prod reminder, I’m here.
Only been trying to watch things unfold.
Within this space it seems like there are already lots of strong personalities scum-hunting,
so I don’t want to get in the way.

Not planning to change my vote until I’m more confident about it; I like drealmerz7’s work based on seeing more of his analysis and posts, but I don’t often have strong reads during day ones.
Do you expect me to not vote this?

VOTE: Slick
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Post Post #1156 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:18 pm

Post by TheRealGin-N-Tonic »

DAMNIT WHY DIDN'T I CALL HIM SLICK RICK
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Post Post #1157 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:21 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 1065, SlickDilinger wrote:Thanks for the prod reminder, I’m here.
Only been trying to watch things unfold.
Within this space it seems like there are already lots of strong personalities scum-hunting, so I don’t want to get in the way.
Not planning to change my vote until I’m more confident about it; I like drealmerz7’s work based on seeing more of his analysis and posts, but I don’t often have strong reads during day ones.
Thanks for scumclaiming.
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Post Post #1158 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:21 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 1068, SlickDilinger wrote:
In post 1067, Alisae wrote:Hi have a good idea! Why don't we flashwagon this?
VOTE: SlickDilinger
Or someone can do a meta dive real quick, either work for me.

I'm the ninth person you've laid a vote against on day one.
And? That alone means nothing.
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Post Post #1159 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:22 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 1070, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I know what's SD's getting at but I don't care about that right now.

SD
, it seems like you've taken quite a bit of notes about this game, who do you think are D7's partners?
Unless I missed something, didn't he say he was townreading drealm?
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Post Post #1160 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:26 pm

Post by Zachstralkita »

VOTE: TheRealGin-N-Tonic
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Post Post #1161 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:29 pm

Post by Creature »

VOTE: SlickDinger
Sigh
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Post Post #1162 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:29 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

VOTE: TheRealGin-n-Tonic
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Post Post #1163 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:34 pm

Post by -Grey- »

VOTE: Slick
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Post Post #1164 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:40 pm

Post by Alisae »

In post 1122, Wraith wrote:
In post 1115, Alisae wrote:
In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8691308#p8691308]post 1112[/url], Wraith wrote:
Alisae wrote:Have you ever thought of asking me to go more indepth on my reasoning instead of just saying I'm scum for it?
Why do I have to ask for it? Why are you not just saying it?
To understand my reasoning a bit more. Unless you're scum and you don't care about that stuff.
Plus it's not my duty to prove to you that I am town. It's my duty to hunt, find, and lynch scum.
WTF kind of response is this?

My point is if you are actually trying to scumhunt then you should be posting detailed explanations for your reads with context anyways, without anyone having to ask.

I'm not saying you have to post massive walls of quotes and text. That can be done badly to the point it gets ignored (cough dreal cough).

It's the difference between
Grey wrote: I scumread Wraith because his post finding rb scummy for apparently scumslipping multiball while also simultaneously being skeptical of this being a multiball setup. Therefore, I'm voting to lynch him.
and
Alisae wrote: I townread Debi for being a VI. I scumread Wraith and Ircher for pushing a lynch on a VI.
The difference is that Grey's reasoning for scumreading me comes from a logical thought process that is clearly explained; you have decided Debi is a VI for arbitrary reasons you fail to elaborate upon and then scumread players based on that initial unexplained, arbitrary conclusion.

And that's just one example of fake scumhunting out of several so far already. And you're trying to paint ME as the bad guy for finding you scummy for this crap?
So you're basicly saying my playstyle is scummy?
Adapt.
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Post Post #1165 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:58 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 1097, Wraith wrote:My beef with Alisae. This will largely be me copy-pasting all the bullet points from my two compilations with maybe some extra commentary. I just want to put it all in one post.

A* Alisae not reading the rules and voting Gin in #46/48 for mentioning scum daychat is another strike against him. It wouldn't look bad by itself but combined with the more egregious posts by him (JFC I keep writing "her" because of the username and avatar)...
B* Alisae townreads me in #206 and #215, then scumreads and votes for me in #239. I made no new posts between #206 and #239, the only thing that changed is she talked to Echo. And in light of her future voting patterns, she seems to be getting in on a growing wagon on the ground.
C* Alisae gets a scumread on Dunnstral early on for weak reasons (#225) and continues to cling to it over time without wavering and without giving further reasons to maintain the scumread (#363, #409). As much as Alisae spams the thread she does very little to justify or explain her reads in general. I point to #409 in particular where she posts "woe is me I'm gonna get lynched I'll just post my reads with absolutely no context bye now." It reeks of falseness
D* In #434 Alisae labels Debi VI without that much to go on and then draws scumreads based on that label. Inherently flawed logic leading to flawed conclusions which looks like fake scumhunting to me. This is the difference between players who get legit scumreads on me (Grey, Ircher, Echo) and players who don't, and is another big part of why I strongly scumread Alisae
E* Alisae's #450 is pretty egregious to me. She townreads Echo for his apparent frustration at seven new pages overnight in his #231. Yet she doesn't react whatsoever to other players similarly reacting to sudden surges in thread activity - myself (#481), HS (#487), GE (#1026). Why does Echo get this special treatment? I'll also bring back up the incident where she 180'd on her read of me between #206 and #239, where I made no new posts in between those but what she did do was talk to and sheep Echo. Again, it appears to me that Alisae is coming up with bullshit reasons to read people and that way she appears to be scumhunting, but it reality she's doing nothing and joining the most popular wagon of the moment.
F* Has so little conviction in her scumread of me that she'll flip to Pine after a short exchange, and then flips back to me after another, and then flips back to Pine YET AGAIN after another. Again, her scumread on me coming not from herself but from Echo. Oh, and with more "woe is me I'm gonna get lynched overnight" bullshit after the re-vote. This isn't real scumhunting folks, this is the appearance of scumhunting.
G* Essentially claims VI after several players have called her lynchbait and continues playing that up even now.
H* Joins the flashwagon on All Alone (with Dunnsral, someone she allegedly has a scumread on).
I* Openly talks about a pressure wagon on Pine, defeating the purpose of a pressure wagon. Again, not scumhunting, but appearing to scumhunt.
J* Joins the flashwagon on Ircher (WITH THE GUY SHE WAS SCUMREADING HUNDRED POSTS AGO)
K* Rejoins the flashwagon on All Alone (more justifiable, but again, if she scumreads All Alone WHY DID SHE NOT IMMEDIATELY CALL FOUL ON THE IRCHER FLASHWAGON?)
L* OMGUS scumreads drealmerz for scumreading her in #1049
M* Pushes yet another flashwagon on Slick

Let's check the voting record - when they happened, who was already on the wagon, and whether or not anyone voted for the same target immediately after she did:

1. Kyouko (#6, RVS)
2. Gin (#46, Creature #23, All Alone #42, probably still RVS)
3. Creature (#63, Gin #41, Pine #85, probably still RVS)
4. Kyouko (#175, probably still RVS)
5. Wraith (#239, Ircher #146, Echo #231, Gin #241, sheeping Echo)
6. Pine (#466, knee-jerk)
7. Wraith (#470, Still Ircher + Echo, Kyouko #303, still a popular wagon)
8. Pine (#474, Creature #497, knee-jerk)
9. All Alone (#820, Dunnstral #816, Creature #818, flashwagon)
10. Pine (#853, Zach #852, Creature #855, Kyouko #890, flashwagon)
11. Ircher (#912, rb #910, All Alone #914, flashwagon)
12. All Alone (#933, Dunnstral #816, Echo #864, Uzi #923, rb #925, Creature #929, Ircher #964, flashwagon)
13. Pine (#976, Zach #852, Kyouko #890, actually a consistent scumread)
14. Slick (#1067, Creature #1076, Uzi #1090, starts a new flashwagon)

So the tl;dr gist is:


1. Alisae town- or scumreads players for extremely shallow and arbitrary reasons or for reasons she fails to adequately explain.
2. Alisae's vote changes practically every hour, primarily jumping on the most popular bandwagon of the moment.
3. Therefore, Alisae is not genuinely scumhunting or trying to contribute, and both her reads and votes both lack any sort of conviction or depth as a result. My conclusion is that she is scum trying to appear to be active and scumhunting but trying to blend into the background of wagons to conveniently shift off blame later.
Lets look through this cuz I have a few issues with it.
A) It's really a null thing. Plus, scum are GENERALLY more cautious than town. Not reading the rules tend to be a laziness tell than anything.
B) Really don't see the issue here. Well, I do, but I also believe that there are reasonable reasons for Alisae to change reads. That plus meta doesn't make it look that off.
C) Meh. Depends on the player; pretty sure this isn't a scumtell for Alisae.
D) Fair eough I guess
E) I don't disagree w/ the facts and your analysis; I disagree with your conclusio because this is onc again, not too surprising from Alisae. Look further than knee-deep please.
Annotate
. (I don't annotate that much tbh, but it would actually be a very useful skill for mafia.)
F) It once again does look scummy, but is it truly scum-motivated? My opinion is no.
G) Self-aware lynchbait can be town as much as they are scum, You can look through some of my old gmes; there are plenty of examples where I have been town self-aware lynchbait. Bad generalizations are bad for mafia; one-size-does-not-fit-all.
H) You're going to have to get into more detail if you want to convince people that that is indicative of scum. Teamwork/Compromise/Cooperation is just as important as being a skilled scumhunter.
I) Null.
J) Typical Alisae behavior imo
K) Fair point, but minor. People don't tend to read closely and stuff like that happens.
L) OMGUS is a very bad scumtell and like beetlejuicing, it shoukd be cast into an eternal void of oblivion.
M) Still sounds like typical Alisae imo

My question for you:
What is the scum motivation for this?
Why does Alisae vote strangely? Why does Alisae contradict himself frequently? You have to make inferences, draw conclusions, and most importantly, think. One suggestion is to annotate. It will help you look past the words and towards the true meaning behind it all. Another thing you should consider doing is research -- look up and read some of Alisae games. Maybe they will change your perception (and if they don't, then you now have a way to explain why this behavior seems scum-motivated). Those who don't believe in meta are foverer condemned to mislynching lynchbait players because more oft than not, lynchbait players are going to draw town and play relatively the same regardless of alignment. Meta forms the guidelines to reading player; it doesn't make individual actions towntells or scumtells (that would be trust tells imo btw), but it does give you a feel for the player. Use it like any other tool.
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Post Post #1166 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:59 pm

Post by Zachstralkita »

It won't be a drink with ice when I throw Gin on the rocks.
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Post Post #1167 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:00 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 1114, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
In post 1111, Alisae wrote:
In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8691301#p8691301]post 1110[/url], Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Didn't you use to wall in your first couple of Newbie games?
lol couple. I only finished 1 newbie.
You mean my very first game? Yeah but then Tywin Lannister happened and TierShift was like "Walls are bad."
Swear it feels like you completed 10 :lol:

I don't mind walls as long as they're well formatted. No one seems to do that anymore though.
I generally number my points, but aside from that .....
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Post Post #1168 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:03 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 1127, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 14, Pine wrote:
In post 8, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Scum have daychat, Pine can fuck off

VOTE: Pine
TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:A grudge vote that's what
It's a fair Cop.
Dayvig Gin


DIE SUCKA
did you just dayvig the cop
,,,,Are you really that far behind?
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Post Post #1169 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:05 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 1138, Gamma Emerald wrote:You, know what, given the present info, Debi is obvtown now. She would not have stated 9 scum if she knew how many scum there were.
Hooray for derptown.
What??? Could be derpscum as well. Null.
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Post Post #1170 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:08 pm

Post by Ircher »

Alisae is still Null leaning Town.
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Post Post #1171 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:10 pm

Post by Alisae »

Ircher you make it sound like we played a lot of games together
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Post Post #1172 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:11 pm

Post by Ircher »

Nope. I just know lynchbait when I see one.
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Post Post #1173 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:18 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 1166, Zachstralkita wrote:It won't be a drink with ice when I throw Gin on the rocks.
ayy
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Post Post #1174 (ISO) » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:15 pm

Post by rb »

In post 1173, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 1166, Zachstralkita wrote:It won't be a drink with ice when I throw Gin on the rocks.
ayy
lmao
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