Mini Normal 1854: Game Over

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: havingfitz

You aren't getting away this time.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: havingfitz

You aren't getting away this time.

What happened?

Nothing happened. I'm just participating in RVS.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: havingfitz

You aren't getting away this time.

What happened?

Nothing happened. I'm just participating in RVS.

Why do you feel the need to participate in RVS?

This is an odd question. Why wouldn't I feel the need to? RVS is a good way to spur the game into action.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Ari seemed like he was either reaction testing or being sarcastic. Leaning the latter.

I think TVD is hiding how experienced based on his response to Gamma's 48. He dodges a very simple and straight forward question. Can anyone else find any other logical reason(s) as to why he would answer in such a way? I have a feeling he's an alt and is afraid to give himself away because of the reputation of his old account.

@Ted:

TVD's vote doesn't look like pushing to me. He didn't call for anyone to follow him, he just put more of a spotlight on Ari's post by voting.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Ari seemed like he was either reaction testing or being sarcastic. Leaning the latter.

I think TVD is hiding how experienced he is based on his response to Gamma's 48. He dodges a very simple and straight forward question. Can anyone else find any other logical reason(s) as to why he would answer in such a way? I have a feeling he's an alt and is afraid to give himself away because of the reputation of his old account.

@Ted:

TVD's vote doesn't look like pushing to me. He didn't call for anyone to follow him, he just put more of a spotlight on Ari's post by voting.

EBWOP

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I have a feeling he's an alt and is afraid to give himself away because of the reputation of his old account.

(maybe it's not important)

disclaimer: i honestly know nothing

Feels like it could be. Might give us an understanding of how he or she plays.

I have a feeling he's an alt and is afraid to give himself away because of the reputation of his old account.

(maybe it's not important)

disclaimer: i honestly know nothing

Yeah, there is no way to prove it.

We just have to take his(her?) word for it.

Any actual debate about it is incidentally also anti-town.

Why would it be anti-town? You seem to be trying to shutdown a discussion that could potentially help in the long run.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Meta has been helping me a bit more recently but I think you guys are right, don't want to be overly reliant on it. I've seen quite a few players addicted to using it and I don't want to end up like them.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I have a feeling he's an alt and is afraid to give himself away because of the reputation of his old account.

(maybe it's not important)

disclaimer: i honestly know nothing

Feels like it could be. Might give us an understanding of how he or she plays.

I have a feeling he's an alt and is afraid to give himself away because of the reputation of his old account.

(maybe it's not important)

disclaimer: i honestly know nothing

Yeah, there is no way to prove it.

We just have to take his(her?) word for it.

Any actual debate about it is incidentally also anti-town.

Why would it be anti-town? You seem to be trying to shutdown a discussion that could potentially help in the long run.

The

potential

chance of them saying "ok you caught me Im an alt" is slim to none.

Even then, it doesnt prove scum.

What else are you expecting out of discussing this?

Never said that it would prove anything, just that it could potentially help in the long run if he or she choose to reveal his/her main account.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I have a feeling he's an alt and is afraid to give himself away because of the reputation of his old account.

(maybe it's not important)

disclaimer: i honestly know nothing

Feels like it could be. Might give us an understanding of how he or she plays.

I have a feeling he's an alt and is afraid to give himself away because of the reputation of his old account.

(maybe it's not important)

disclaimer: i honestly know nothing

Yeah, there is no way to prove it.

We just have to take his(her?) word for it.

Any actual debate about it is incidentally also anti-town.

Why would it be anti-town? You seem to be trying to shutdown a discussion that could potentially help in the long run.

The

potential

chance of them saying "ok you caught me Im an alt" is slim to none.

Even then, it doesnt prove scum.

What else are you expecting out of discussing this?

Never said that it would prove anything, just that it could potentially help in the long run if he or she choose to reveal his/her main account.

Ok.

I never said you said that.

I'm thinking that my reply made it obvious I read your post. why repeat yourself?

Sorry Im feeling petty

It's cool. Just seemed like you are implying you thought I did.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I guess my main thing with how this started was how it was labeled as a push rather than bringing something into the spotlight. I can see newb town doing the latter or even a player who's not familiar with MS meta which is why I'm curious as to whether TVD is an alt or not as well as his or her experience.

Looking forward to his/her response as well as everyone who hasn't chimed in yet but I have a feeling that TVD might be the most optimal play for today. Especially since I've been a little suspicious ever since he/she asked such an odd question regarding RVS.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

unvote, vote: lil uzi vert

Mind explaining?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@

Hiraki:

I'm curious as what else you or Ted want me to talk about while we are waiting for 4 replacements.

What's wrong with being suspicious of a question?

Don't get your last point. Especially after I said how I'm looking forward to others thoughts on the matter. If I was opportunistic like you seem to be implying, I would have voted for TVD already.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Hiraki:

I'm not entirely sure what's the problem. I was simply just trying to get a better understanding of TVD's play since I assumed he was an alt. You still aren't suggesting other topics to talk about by the way.

I could see scum easily asking that question in attempt to look like they're trying to understand thought processes and motive.

And no I can't, but I may be able to get a better idea and that's the big picture. You seem to be missing that and I'm not sure why.

@TVD:

I felt it can and I still think it can. It's okay if you disagree.

I didn't call you newb town. I was saying the way you put Ari's RVS post into the spotlight is something I could see newb town doing. I also said you

might

be the most optimal play for today. Key word is might there. As in, when Day 1 is close to being all said and done, if you're a lynch candidate, you would have the strongest chance of flipping scum.

Could you describe in a little more detail how me interpreting "reeks of opportunity" as someone trying to say I'm opportunistic throwing shade?

I didn't really think you were pushing for a lynch because you didn't really advocate for anyone to sheep you. You just stated a case I found very week and now it looks like you're currently trying to sort Ari.

I'm not scum reading anyone at the moment. I can see how you think I was though. I find your vote on Ari NAI.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

People who are town: FrankJaeger, Hiraki, Twoface, and probably TwiszTed.

People who are scum: Aristophanes, Lil Uzi Vert

Mind explaining your town reads?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Hiraki:

I'm not entirely sure what's the problem. I was simply just trying to get a better understanding of TVD's play since I assumed he was an alt. You still aren't suggesting other topics to talk about by the way.

I could see scum easily asking that question in attempt to look like they're trying to understand thought processes and motive.

And no I can't, but I may be able to get a better idea and that's the big picture. You seem to be missing that and I'm not sure why.

@TVD:

I felt it can and I still think it can. It's okay if you disagree.

I didn't call you newb town. I was saying the way you put Ari's RVS post into the spotlight is something I could see newb town doing. I also said you

might

be the most optimal play for today. Key word is might there. As in, when Day 1 is close to being all said and done, if you're a lynch candidate, you would have the strongest chance of flipping scum.

Could you describe in a little more detail how me interpreting "reeks of opportunity" as someone trying to say I'm opportunistic throwing shade?

I didn't really think you were pushing for a lynch because you didn't really advocate for anyone to sheep you. You just stated a case I found very weak and now it looks like you're currently trying to sort Ari.

I'm not scum reading anyone at the moment. I can see how you thought I was though. I find your vote on Ari NAI.

EBWOP

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@TVD:

Well nothing, you didn't bother to link your homesite. All I can do now is speculate that bringing attention to soft claims is the norm where you come from.

I can see it coming from newb town because in my experience, the majority of new players don't understand the risk of putting attention onto soft claims. You seemed to didn't understand that risk with your vote based on how quickly you jumped on Ari's post.

I don't have any other reason at the moment to believe you'll flip scum other than your question about RVS. I was just explaining what I meant by optimal play.

I wasn't calling you scum. Reread my explantation on what I meant on optimal play.

We are at Page 5. I started talking about this on page 3.

I'm playing my game as well as interacting with you and others about the big events that have taken place so far.

Now as far as your reads, I do agree with you on Ted despite my dislike of his vote on you. He seems to be all about business and I think he's doing that in his own way here based on his interactions on Gamma.

Don't really get the Frank and TF read. Their ISO screams null so far.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Eric:

Activity is not indicative of alignment. What's off about my analysis?

It seemed like you were scum reading Ted in 125 but apparently you weren't since you said he's starting to sound scummy in 130. This makes me think you're faking the rest of your reads. Especially due to your 140.

Explaining your reads gives the town an understanding of what you're thinking and will help players decide if they want to follow you or not. Why does it appear like you're denying the town this information? How does not helping others see what you're seeing a town mindset? If the rest of your reads are gut, you can at least point us to what's giving you that feeling.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Eric

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Question: Can we role claim ?

Please don't.

So does that mean I can? Its just a question though

Yes, but there is no logical reason for you to do so right now.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hiraki:

No, I haven't been reading your past games due to my lack of free time and the fact that I don't believe I'll have a ton of trouble reading of you.

I'm voting for Eric because he's implying my activity is indicative of my alignment and I don't believe his reads on Gamma and Ted are real due to how he seems unwilling to share how he came to town read them. I'm not trying to get anyone to think the way I think, I'm just trying to understand how he got his other reads.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I didn't call you newb town. I was saying the way you put Ari's RVS post into the spotlight is something I could see newb town doing. I also said you might be the most optimal play for today. Key word is might there. As in, when Day 1 is close to being all said and done, if you're a lynch candidate, you would have the strongest chance of flipping scum.

"You're probably newbtown, but you have the highest chance of flipping scum."

WFT IS THIS SHIT!?

VOTE: Uxi

Please reread. That is not what I said.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Gamma actually explained what I meant quite well. Not sure how you guys are misunderstanding anything but it happens I guess.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Gamma actually explained what I meant quite well. Not sure how you guys are misunderstanding anything but it happens I guess.

im glad you took someone else's response for your own

Or I'm glad he can read. Reading is fundamentally my friend.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Gamma actually explained what I meant quite well. Not sure how you guys are misunderstanding anything but it happens I guess.

im glad you took someone else's response for your own

Or I'm glad he can read. Reading is fundamental my friend.

EBWOP

[Lil Uzi Vert]

You are. It's not that hard to understand what I meant. I feel you have a issue with how a play. I'm not going to force myself to comment or talk about things that I didn't feel were worthy of a comment. I make notes, revisit often, and keep things moving until I feel I have a real strong read. I don't have any strong reads but I always feel like following the weak reads I do have is better than nothing. Which is exactly what I'm doing.

I also believe I commented on TF and Frank saying that their ISO should read null to most. Frank more so than TF at the moment.

I never asked anyone for reads, I asked people to explain their reads. Please reread.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah looking back post 109 is horsecrap.
As for the deal with "newbies aren't scum": in the face to face I play you tap people a certain amount of times to determine their role (mafia, mason vigs, SK, VT). That means it's possible for the mod to do that sort of thing,

Why is it crap?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

You are. It's not that hard to understand what I meant. I feel you have a issue with how a play. I'm not going to force myself to comment or talk about things that I didn't feel were worthy of a comment. I make notes, revisit often, and keep things moving until I feel I have a real strong read. I don't have any strong reads but I always feel like following the weak reads I do have is better than nothing. Which is exactly what I'm doing.

I also believe I commented on TF and Frank saying that their ISO should read null to most. Frank more so than TF at the moment.

I never asked anyone for reads, I asked people to explain their reads. Please reread.

@Hiraki

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah looking back post 109 is horsecrap.
As for the deal with "newbies aren't scum": in the face to face I play you tap people a certain amount of times to determine their role (mafia, mason vigs, SK, VT). That means it's possible for the mod to do that sort of thing,

Why is it crap?

Previously you had stated TVD "might be the optimal play", indicating you scumread them.

LOL.

Again, I'm said might be the most optimal play as in when we as a collective decide the day needs to end and we have more than one lynch candidate or he is the only candidate, it might be optimal to lynch him because he would have a good chance of flipping scum.

This is true for basically everyone else from my point of view correct? As in, if say you or Ted end up being a lynch candidate by the end of Day 1, it might be optimal to lynch Ted over you. Or vice-versa.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah looking back post 109 is horsecrap.
As for the deal with "newbies aren't scum": in the face to face I play you tap people a certain amount of times to determine their role (mafia, mason vigs, SK, VT). That means it's possible for the mod to do that sort of thing,

Why is it crap?

Previously you had stated TVD "might be the optimal play", indicating you scumread them.

LOL.

Again, I said might be the most optimal play as in when we as a collective decide the day needs to end and we have more than one lynch candidate or he is the only candidate, it might be optimal to lynch him because he would have a good chance of flipping scum.

This is true for basically everyone else from my point of view correct? As in, if say you or Ted end up being a lynch candidate by the end of Day 1, it might be optimal to lynch Ted over you. Or vice-versa.

EBWOP

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Ah I see the confusion here. I was suspicious of TVD but that doesn't mean I was scum reading him then since I did state I found his vote on Ari overall null.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Like I felt the vote was important in terms of reading him overall than the odd question and his meta.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Keep tunneling away bud.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Well yeah, I don't like his reasoning for not wanting explain his reads. I also don't believe they're real.

Just noticed you are voting for Misa, how are you feeling about her now? I think her jump on Eric for wanting to the day to end is a little suspect but I think she has good intentions with her vote. No reason to rush the day when there is still a lot of it left and we are waiting for a replacement. I also think she might be on to something about Eric in regards to his experience. He has this sort I don't care how I look or what you think of me attitude going on so I don't see why he would try to lie about how long he's been playing forum mafia.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Welcome Deer!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah that was odd. A part me thinks she doesn't feel like likeshe'll get along with many of the players here but that's just based on my last game with her.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah that was odd. A part me thinks she doesn't feel like she will get along with many of the players here but that's just based on my last game with her.

EBWOP

[Lil Uzi Vert]

TF:

I don't think it's moreso like dislike, I think just she seems the clique type. I think if a majority of her friends aren't in a game she won't have a good time.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Lmao.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Mafiascum is life.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Mafiascum is life.

UNVOTE: Eric

VOTE: Uzi

Useless posts. Constantly. I really haven't seen much content

Creeps, filler is NAI. Please unvote.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Filler is NAI because there is no motivation to do so as either alignment. What's the scum motivation behind me laughing at House's alt getting banned and calling this site life? I'll wait.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Well that's L-2. Thanks for putting me there without noting you did.

I'm a mason.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Misa.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

My hand was forced and I didn't trust this player list so I claimed before I got to L-1. We are all to blame for making the game more about me rather than letting things come naturally. But, the day is still young so we can still salvage this.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don't blame Gamma for wanting me to out my partner because I don't think anyone was going to believe me if I didn't. As for Creeps, from my experience, he's like this and is going to most likely be a difficult read. We'll see what he brings to the table Day 2.

I'm not sure what is it about this game but I'm having more trouble than usual with reads. I liked what I've seen from Deer outside of his Ari town reading. Other than the scolding of why it wasn't wise for how the mason thing went down, I don't really have a reason to TR Ari. I was liking the questions Fitz was asking but scum reading people for voting me when they didn't know I was a mason is dumb but that's not enough for me to cast my vote there. TF seems to be being his usual self, although he did seem a little protective than need be of Eric early on when it came to his play style. Frank and TVD need to post more.

Honestly I feel Hiraki is scum. I've been going back and forth as to whether he was just blindly tunneling or not but I can't help but feel he's the reason we are at right now. The game literally turned into about me once he stated why he voted for me and all he's done really is dismiss reasons for why people are scum reading Eric.

VOTE: Hiraki

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hiraki:

Not really, just reread your ISO and it looks like you're kind of soft defending him and giving him advice. I'm still seeing you dismiss any and all suspicion on him because you think he's lying about his experience. You're not taking into account that even if he is, it does not clear him. Outside of activity, can you explain his lack of scumhunting and why he has shown no signs of willing to do so?

I'm struggling see any reason for town to lie about how experienced they're at this game. There is no motivation to do so as town and I believe him when he says he's been playing mafia for a couple of years on another site. Very rarely do we get new members who have no prior experience.

Also took another look at his 161 and not only is it a terrible excuse, it's very manipulative.

As for Deer, I'm not seeing the case for him. I like a lot of the questions he asked and observations he made in his catch-up posts. Only thing that gave me pause is his Creeps SR but that's not really his fault since this is his first time playing with him and he doesn't know his meta. His argument with TF is also probably because he's never played with TF before as well.

Vedith:

Welcome!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'm not down. If you believe Creeps is scum, help find his partners.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

If Hiraki flips town, we lynch Creeps tomorrow.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Sorry, been less active due to being pissed about having to claim over something that was relatively easy to understand. Thought Hiraki would be lynched by now.

Something about Ari's reactions and interactions with Creeps or anything Creeps related reads very fake to me. Mainly his 494 and his 507.

Creeps as already stated, is playing poorly and looks like he isn't willing to put the effort in at all. There is no motivation for his play for either alignment and if he's playing the too scummy to be scum card we can always lynch him any Day 2 or 3. We can afford to make a few mistakes, so I rather gamble on one of the other widely scum read players, especially considering myself and Misa are basically confirmed.

Fitz reads like he truly believes what he's saying but I don't like that he won't point to what is giving him these gut reads on Hiraki and TVD. He's using TF's comments soft defending Eric to justify not having to answer questions but fails to realize those same comments were about explaining reads early on in the day phase. It's late into Day 1, no excuse. That being said it's looking like Fitz won't get lynched today and we are running out of time.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Fitz:

I knew you were town reading Hiraki and TVD, the problem was that you weren't explaining what was giving you those reads and the reason you gave for choosing not to didn't make sense considering what part of Day 1 it is. This new reasoning doesn't make sense either. You have two basically confirmed masons, wanting to know how you came to your gut reads to determine if they're genuine and not fake yet you insist on being vauge and making yourself even harder to read. I don't see the motivation to do that as town. I understand you want to find scum, but town hunting can be just as effective as scum hunting and building a town block right now could help with the efforts.

@TF:

Well, we might, but with three potential replacements coming in and Frank catching up at a turtle's pace, I just don't see it.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

It means save Creeps for Day 2 and hop on the other wagon so we can avoid a no lynch.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

This game is literally the worse.

Did a quick skim and ISO, my vote is still where it needs to be. Willing to compromise on Ari.

Spoiler:

@Ari:

Why is Math town?

@Fitz:

Alright, fair. I don't agree with some of your thoughts on those two but at least you explained your gut reads on them. I don't have anymore reasons to currently suspect you but I do disagree with your read on Josh in 750. He hasn't really done anything either.

Frank:

Replace out!

Josh:

Deer seems town and scum reading his slot for IO's play is awful.

Mathblade:

You're using meta to partially read Gamma, I'm using meta to partially read Creeps. Creeps is lynch bait as either alignment and is not worth the risk Day 1. Also your tunneling on Gamma looks forced. Especially your 724, reeks of fake outrage. If his role fishing is quite obvious, why make a show about it? People can read and see his attempts at doing so and then make up their minds from there. Scum wouldn't blatantly role fish like he's been doing and I don't fault him for forcing me to claim. He's more suspicious for his go with the flow play this game, he's literally just sheeping anything that walks.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Ari: Why is Math town?

He's doing a bang up job at actually scumhunting this game, conversing, and seems genuinely to be trying to win as town. He's probably become my biggest townread.

Except he's done none of that. All he's done is tunnel and try to enforce his theories about mafia on others.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

You assume he's wrong here btw, can you explain why?

I just did. It be fine if I saw the latter and saw scum hunting too but I'm not.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Did a quick skim and ISO, my vote is still where it needs to be. Willing to compromise on Ari.

Why!?

Missed this. A lot of your posts feel fake and all of you're votes are just really bad or blind sheeping.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hello scum!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Alright I'll compromise. What's the VC?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah still not doing Creeps.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Fitz

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Sorry for the lack of activity. Disinterest and life reared their ugly heads again but I'm going to start seriously playing this game now.

Fitz had me fooled for a little while to be honest when I finally got him to explain those gut reads. I was satisfied with the reasons he gave for those reads but I kept overlooking how much he's ignored those two slots.

I share the same stance on claimed PRs Day 1 as TF does so it would be very hypocritical for me to scum read for that him but, it was very odd there the end of Day 1 where he just adamantly refused to lynch Fitz after how hard he pushed him. I understand people have beliefs and all but it's a little concerning how easy TF was willing to give up that lynch. Might be scum who tried a last effort attempt to hop off of a buddy.

Not really feeling Josh at all. He hasn't done anything at all that makes me want to TR him and he's only brought the suspicions I had about that slot back and this time, they're a lot more intense. I'm not sensing effort at all in any of the scum reads he shares or the cases he presents. I also think he's playing up his play style a bit in order to justify how's he playing in order to coast.

I saw some talk about Gamma forcing me to claim and I want to state again that I don't think he should be SR for this. I had no choice to claim at the time and part of this is why I've been scum reading Hiraki.

Ari continues to filler with a bit of maifia theory and sheeping. Frank continues to prod dodge and not commit to fully catching up.

The problem I'm having with a lot of these reads is that most of them are based on effort and that's NAI. A part of me feels Frank is too easy and a part of me reads him as a player who would not savagely prod dodge as scum like he's been doing.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah I strongly disagree with his read on you Josh. A little bit on Ari as well.

Definitely agree with him on TF, I just threw that observation out there just because you'd be surprised and it's not out of the realm possibility technically. TF response though is typical TF and reads town. I liked Deer's content but I think he's going to get replaced soon so it'll probably go back to null for me.

If I had to give reads list:

Town: Creeps, Gamma, TF
Null: Deer, Vedith
Null Scum: Ari, Frank
Scum: Josh, Hiraki

Looking now I don't think are reads are that different where it should be an issue. Nice town block we have honestly if Gamma and TF are town.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hiraki's vote on Frank is the only thing I've liked from him all game. I'm torn.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Intent to hammer

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Not entirely sold.

He could always lie about who he protected during the night in order to avoid suspicion when questioned about why he didn't die.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Which makes sense for balance since bodyguard + Masons is too weak but other things are mostly too strong. Don't think Frank has the experience to come up with that and doubt he was putting in work Wiki-diving to come up with it.

Bg with 2 masons isn't that weak. I think the game with uzi and I, we had 2 masons and a watcher with a hated. (Thinking that's right. Uzi? Isn't that the game)

Correct but that set-up seems a lot stronger than this one is.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Hiraki

[Lil Uzi Vert]

AJ's fine. Hope he catches up soon.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Nice scum claim man. I couldn't outdo that if I tried.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Vedith is town I think. Tone up until the Creeps vote seals it for me, he just seems misguided a bit recently.

If we're lucky Creeps will get replaced and we'll have another active member of the town.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Let's see what he comes up with once he's finished catching up.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Vedith:

What's stopping Creeps and Hiraki from being partners?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I think I understand what Nacho is getting at with the Ari read but I can't say anymore since it's ongoing.

My vote is still good.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

It might end very soon so I might be able too.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Disagree with your read on the Eric slot, AJ. At no point in time did his tone indicate that he was trying to be someone he's not and I think you're confusing one defending themselves with being self absorbed here.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I've been disinterested because this day should've been over with already. I hope Sonia follows through and we can move on.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hiraki has no one to blame but himself. Still blacklisting him after this game.
_____

Confirmed Town: Me and Nacho
Practically Confirmed: TwoFace and Vedith
Might Be Town: AJ, Josh
Probably Scum: Ari, Gamma, and Sonia

_____

Me and Nacho are masons.

_____

TF was the driving force behind the Fitz wagon from the jump and fought tooth and nail a lot more than I did to ensure Creeps wouldn't be lynched. I have a decent amount of games with him and he doesn't strike me as a gimmicks guy, meaning he's probably not one to try to WIFOM towns to victory as scum. I also feel he's a decent judge of skill level so I don't see him sticking his neck out so hard unless Creeps had an very important role for the scum team.

Vedith was exactly like TF was with Creeps when it came to Hiraki, just went about it the wrong way as he was unable to explain the town read he had on him due to the fact that he could potential violate site rules. It doesn't make sense for scum Vedith to defend a townie this hard considering the game state and how much attention not explaining the read could've gotten him. We have had two confirmed masons since Day 1. I see scum more likely to try to buddy one of us than opposed to Hiraki who doesn't strike me as a guy who would be easy to manipulate.

_____

I've liked a lot of AJ's content at a glance but I haven't given it much of a look until now. I don't like his push on Josh is solely on his slot predecessors play. I think he would have to know that sort of push isn't going to go through considering he didn't sub in the same time Josh did and it has been a struggle to get lynches like that to go through considering Creeps slot is still alive. His case on Ari is solid and is probably where my vote is going to at the end of this.

Josh's pushes have been pretty nonsensical but on a reread the tone of a lot of his posts feel town and his frustrations after being pressured from AJ and Hiraki seem genuine.

_____

Ari continues to do nothing but post mafia theory and sheep. Called out a lot of his posts feel fake to me earlier. Going to wait for the defense on him from Nacho. He doesn't feel like the best lynch today though.

Gamma is a PoE read for me. I still don't and will not scum read him for forcing me to claim but when I go through everyone else like I just did, I don't see him fitting in the categories that don't include me and Nacho. Also MB pushed him pretty hard Day 1 and had an actual meta case to back it up if I recall correctly so we all may have to revisit that.

Sonia - I haven't payed much attention to this slot because Creeps was the predecessor and while I usually don't keep reads on a slot, this felt like a special case. Sadly I've made a mistake. She has done nothing to redeem this slot at all. Her unwillingness to reread feels telling, especially considering that me and Nacho were pretty much public knowledge at that point and I would naturally think if you're town, you would want to know how I claimed. Her push on AJ is also terrible. There was no wagon on the Eric slot at the time and as I explained earlier, the likelihood of a lynch on that slot going through at that point of the game was slim to none.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Well the same 2 who voted fitz with me voted creeps also so I think that rules out possible budddies don't ya think? I get why people are voting creeps, but again gut says he's probably town. I don't see scum playing blatantly scummy like that.

No, I don't think that rules out buddies.
Why is Creeps probably town for you? You need to explain that further.

Also waiting for your read on Hiraki to be explained more.

Creeps isn't playing like how I expect scum to play. He's saying scummy things and doesn't care. I almost never see scum do that.

Hiraki on the other hand seems to be playing carefully. Saying just enough to stay relevant while not really saying anything relevant. Plus I thought it was odd hiraki outlined his reads on basically everyone but him and tvd. Hiraki' reaction to fitz just doesn't seem natural to me either. Kind of hard to explain that last one.

Creeps is playing scum, but not how you expect scum to play?
So you expect scum to play town.
You also

almost

never see scum play like that, meaning that you still do?

Hiraki is playing how town should play, but how scum would play? Or did I mis understand this part?

You can probably see why I don't follow you here, right?

You are misunderstanding. Plus I don't care if you follow me or not.

Then help me understand, because that's how I read it.
You should care if I follow, if you actually think he's scum.

creeps is saying stuff that on the surface looks scummy to most people (not me personally but to others) but I don't see anything that has scum intent. He comes off as just a bad player who doesn't really care how he is perceived. Typically scum are going to care how they are perceived. Scum need to blend in and look townish

I mean, don't get me wrong, you're probably right here and normally (even more so day 1) the "scummy" plays turn out to be town. This doesn't mean that pressure shouldn't be applied.

that's what I feel hiraki is actually doing. He isn't really doing much though

Not sure what to say about this. I think you're wrong, but wrong isn't scummy.

I don't know if I can explain it any better so your simple mind can understand and tbh I am not going to waste my time. It's a gut feel kind of thing.

How do you expect to play Mafia if you can't explain, or even put the effort into people seeing what you see?
This is just you being frustrated town imo, and I don't doubt that you believe your gut and there probably is another reason to it which you're just getting flustered to explain because you think I'm only trying to shoot down your case, but I'm actually looking for a valid reason to it.

and no I don't care if you follow me or not. 2 and a half days left, the wagon on my top scum read fell apart due to a poor player being PL'd by 2 more poor players which leaves a scum read and a PL as the biggest wagons, so I joined the wagon on one of my scum reads.

Again, you should care, I'm willing to discuss over it.
Creeps won't be getting PL, as PL is for fuccbois. Anyone on his wagon not pushing it with reason will be shown as scum.
We have plenty of time to move votes back or around.

Look at that wagon on creeps - deer is kind of meh, hiraki I am scum reading, and the last 2 are basically policy lynch votes. that's a bad wagon. You are free to make up your own mind where you vote though. I have made my decision.

I'm not saying it's a good wagon. But I'm not seeing Hiraki as a good wagon.
Suggest someone else to lynch, Hiraki isn't the only scum for you, right?

@Creeps wagon - Give your reasons for voting Creeps.

Can you tag the post of the Fitz case?
Also, I'm not saying I disagree end of...

The reason I'm talking to you is because you are currently playing in the game and posting. I'm not worried about the Creeps wagon yet, and there is a lot of time still.
I don't think it's bad to discuss with you though while I check others.

I'll take a look at Fitz and TVD then
@Ari - Sell me on Fitz

Screams town.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I can get down with Gamma though. I remember you scum reading him.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

It's nothing with him personally, it's just based on his play for me.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Ari continues to do nothing but post mafia theory and sheep.

But is my theory scummy? Have I not been vocal?

I told you Hiraki was a bad lynch, and that he'd flip town. I did not sheep there.

I feel like people are oversimplifying my play here.

Your theory isn't helping sort or understand anything. And no, you tried to argue why MB was town, not Hiraki.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Wow, I came off as an ass there. Sorry man!

But really, I don't see a good reason to vote Hiraki.
Why is that a good wagon again?
Can we shift it somewhere else or is it basically decided for the day already?

Not really since you're voting creeps slot.

lol
sarcasm is lost on you ;;


@aristo i guess nacho either knows something we dont or he no longer is confident in his read on you since he has ignored every time ive asked. who are your scum reads right now and why?

I mean, he literally already said it is simply meta. Sadly, I am very easy to meta and it gets me caught as scum a lot. Usually I'm easier to meta as scum than town, but I definitely see his application of it from my earlier gameplay.

As for scumreads, I believe I had had them on Deers and Creeps, but both slots have now changed hands and I have given them a light reset.

I like the Masons, Frank, and TwoFace as town. Hiraki is aight from my read of him, and I think Vedith could be good as well. This leaves Gamma and Josh, with the possibility of Sonia and AJ as my scumpool.

How's that?

Aristo, Hiraki, mind voting AJ with me? As far as catchups go, that one was particularly pitiful.

Wow, I came off as an ass there. Sorry man!

But really, I don't see a good reason to vote Hiraki.
Why is that a good wagon again?
Can we shift it somewhere else or is it basically decided for the day already?

We can shift it. I think that we should shift it onto AJ.

I agree and shall I'm sure. I wanna read the last 2 pages first at least tho.

No you're right. I toootally never faught against that Hiraki wagon.

You said you told me. You never talked to me about it. Only MB when I asked you why you felt he was torn.

Saying let's shift it without any reasons why hardly is putting up a fight.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

You said you told me. You never talked to me about it. Only MB when I asked you why you felt he was torn.

Saying let's shift it without any reasons why hardly is putting up a fight.

"I told you" was a general statement meaning I had told the thread. Imma start using "yous" I guess, since this gets confused a lot.

I was trying to work out a different lynch because this one sucked, had no strong reasoning behind it, and was on likely town.

No, telling me is addesssing me directly and stating reasons why you feel something. Again, you didn't do that.

Reread his entire ISO up until his vote for Frank. His play spoke for itself.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I told you is the same as I told y'all or everyone. Okay

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I told you is the same as I told y'all or everyone. Okay

I mean, it is...

That's like saying tweeting my political opinions to my followers on Twitter is the same as telling you my political opnions in real life.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

No. He's trying to argue he shouldn't be scum read because he claimed he tried to shift the wagon and told me Hiraki is town. He never did the latter and the attempts he quoted of trying to do the former isn't pushing a shift on anything. Instead of admitting he was mistaken and telling me who he's scum, he rather try to brush me off.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

It's not even about the wording it's about what he claimed to do and what he just quoted.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

It's not even about the wording, it's about what he claimed to do and what he just quoted.

EBWOP

[Lil Uzi Vert]

No. He's trying to argue he shouldn't be scum read because he claimed he tried to shift the wagon and told me Hiraki is town. He never did the latter and the attempts he quoted of trying to do the former isn't pushing a shift on anything. Instead of admitting he was mistaken and telling me who he's scum, he rather try to brush me off.

It's not even about the wording, it's about what he claimed to do and what he just quoted.

EBWOP

I thought Hiraki was town. I disliked the wagon. I attempted to shift it.
I thought I had said my read more explicitly, but I think I made it rather obvious even if I didn't utter the exact words that "Hiraki is town" and regardless of who they were intended for.

You're nitpicking hard man, and you're wrong. If you weren't a Mason I'd probably be all over you.

Again it's not about wording. It's about effort and initiative. If you thought he was town, why didn't you state specifically why and try to drill that into those who were pushing him consistently? I'm not nitpicking, you felt your play was being wrongly summarized and you argued that you been doing something. I'm arguing why I don't think you really did anything.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Could've swore you were pushing him. So your case on Gamma is him treating himself like confirmed town? I think he knows that we know that is far from the case.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Ari

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Disagree with the 2nd part of the 2nd post
Agree with the first
And I'll take your word for the first post

I share the same thoughts on the case as well so I'll unvote for now.

UNVOTE:

Exchange goes together. Gamma advocates the PL on Creeps, Ari shows interest and in fact subsequently votes for creeps on the admitted PL. Both bad by Gamma and Creeps. Major issue is there's two posts between this and his fitz vote. First, one complaining about Creeps posting a huge wall for nothing more than a line response. The second correcting a grammatical mistake in his post brought up by another player.

I don't think that Ari advocating a PL on Creeps is scummy. Gamma saying that Creeps should be PLed for doubting the mason claim was questionable to me (because Creeps wasn't actively pushing the masons, he just said that he didn't trust us yet AND it's not like both of us were going to be alive in LyLo so that shouldn't be a significant worry of Gamma's). Aristo not mentioning why he thought Creeps should just be PLed shouldn't be a dig against Aristo (why would it be?), especially when his other posts in context demonstrate that his attitude towards Creeps has been "his posts suck, let's lynch him" more than "I think Creeps should be policy lynched in order to protect the game!".

I disagree. I think it's perfectly fine to scum read him for that but I'm in agreement that it shouldn't immediately discredit what you pointed out. I'm rarely a fan of policy lynches and Creeps play did not call for one.

I told you is the same as I told y'all or everyone. Okay

I mean, it is...

That's like saying tweeting my political opinions to my followers on Twitter is the same as telling you my political opnions in real life.

You is an acceptable alternative for "y'all" for areas not in the Regional South. Alternatives are "you guys and you people" which are awkward/too informal for many situations; I have no idea how denying grammar rules became a part of your case on Aristo but it's certainly a first for me.

Grammar wasn't my point. I also don't see how in the context people could say he meant everyone, rather than me.

See 1832 for my main point. You can also adamantly state you want something without being aggressive in my opinion.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'll have to reread AJ again but I strongly think his attitude is personality and not AI.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Where was all this the previous day? You didn't do anything but exsist.

There was no real pressure or worry of a lynch until today because we were distracted elsewhere.

Now that there is, he has to produce or die.

So,
VOTE: AJ

He wasn't in danger yesterday. He is now though. You just put him at

L-2

.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Not really seeing it. He voted for Gamma yesterday and was asked to explain why today. It just looks like he's stepping up more in my opinion.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Can't tell if King is VI or scum.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

TF is town.

Can do Ari/Emp/Gamma today.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Intent to hammer

Can also get with an AJ lynch His 2050 pinged me pretty hard and it's only been getting worse from there.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Intent to hammer

Can also get with an AJ lynch. His 2050 pinged me pretty hard and it's only been getting worse from there.

EBWOP

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'm tying something up now. I've kind of just been sitting back and watching to see if King would continue to dig his own hole.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

My thoughts on King below. I understand the scum motivation for his play may be nonexistent according to my mason parter but I haven't gotten a town vibe from it at all.

Spoiler:

King has just been scummy and off from the go and I think there's a good chance AJ or Gamma is his partner.

Take his opening posts in 1954 and 1956. He checks in, states he'll get to rereading, and then immediately asks AJ for a brief summary of the thread. This is off because AJ hadn't posted anything game related in a while at the time of this question and he was also the leading wagon. You haven't read the thread and you're asking the leading wagon for a summary when you have no idea of what your thoughts are on his alignment. Why would town do this? You just subbed in and you haven't read anything and you want a summary of the game from someone you don't know if you can trust yet. Just doesn't add up.

In 1956, he gives out a read list while stating he still has not read the thread. What was the point of this? Why would town give a reads list if they have not read the thread? What's even more telling is that he's obviously lying about not having read the thread based on his read on Josh. There is no way one can have that strong of a SR on Josh if they've claimed to have not read the thread. What are you hiding from scum from lying about not having read?

Then we have his 1960 and we see where the confusion has sort of stemmed from and why VCA can never be the basis of an entire case in his 1961. VCA lacks context and it does not always tell the whole story.

In 1960, he says he's only looked at the vote counts and that's how he got his SR on TF. That's fine. What's not fine is that he had no intention of going back and understanding how the Fitz wagon formed based on his latter comment in his 1965 and you could argue his first point in that same post was the beginning stages of him discreditng the work TF put in by calling his policy awful. What also doesn't make it fine is when he decides to argue semantics in 1975. Maybe policy isn't the best choice of words but it's clear that TF means a general belief and he showed examples of him following that belief in 1967. The issue should've been dropped right then and there.

In 1983, he claimed he finished reading Day 1 and that Gamma is the reason why Fitz was lynched. This is bull and anyone who was actually here Day 1 can tell you that's not how it went down but even if you weren't, a through reread what have told you that wagon was all TF. He also says this clears Gamma which isn't true and why does Gamma barely providing any reasons of his own and being on the wagon clears him but TF being the driving force of the wagon but hopping off because a belief he proves he actually has doesn't? This thinking doesn't sound like it's coming from town.

Fast forward to his 2038, he says TF has been basically flip-flopping. This is another example of King having not read throughly and missing something called context. The lynch was inevitable because Day 1 exceeded way past the two week limit due to the amount of replacements and the extensions we were given. That takes a wear on players especially after so much had been discussed. In his 2051, he argues that lynching is something one doesn't do by themselves and plays the semantics game. If so, why give credit to Gamma for the lynch and then latter Nacho? And again, it's clear what TF means by lynching here. He is obviously saying he doesn't help lynch claimed PRs.

Here, in 2058, is another example of where the argument should've been dropped. King brings up again that TF is trying to get town credit for lynching Fitz. Why would scum who dropped off the way King has been arguing TF did constantly bring up he was the driving force of the Fitz wagon? Makes no sense.

In 2108, another attempt to discredit TF after he presented the argument he had for Fitz being scum in 2055 and another sign King hasn't read throughly. The reason the wagon stalled on Fitz was because we had competing wagons on Creeps and Hiraki and various people on those wagons were stubborn, including me!

--

tl:dr: King is scum because he has proven that he's unwilling to make the effort to read the thread throughly and understand context as well continue to argue semantics

[Lil Uzi Vert]

A slot starts fresh for me when someone subs in but to answer it definitely outweighs.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Luv:
I'll answer Luv's 2181 point by point.

Interacting with the largest wagon and asking things from it is not "off". That's retarded.

Giving your reads as they're created is obviously pro-town. My read on Josh was dead-on so I appreciate why you might think that it surely couldn't have come without a thorough reading, but it did. Josh had loads of posts, but none really that Nacho considered worth responding to or quoting. That's scum flying under the radar. That's active lurking. I was dead-on.

Read the thread. Read the pages either side of Nacho's vote if you think that reading all of Day One is too much work. Two is not the reason that the Hiraki and Creep wagons were overcome and scum got lynched. That came from Nacho and Gamma. Two was making no effort to get Having lynched Day One when the final wagon got on him. These are simply facts that happened. Don't trust me, look at the pages in question.

That's not semantics. If he is claiming to have a policy in this game. And it certainly looks like a policy in this game. But it wasn't a policy in those other games. Regardless, I literally said that I am willing to concede the argument in that post. That's not remotely arguing over semantics.

I have never said that Two going off the wagon was scummy - maybe before he said the policy - although I've acknowledged that it ought to be. What is scummy is that Two won't give a straight answer to questions about why he unvoted. "I don't lynch claimed PRs" is nonsense; it's impossible. It is halfway between "I won't be on the wagon of a claimed PR day one. Just won't" and "I'll try to keep claimed PRs from being lynched" Posturing or protecting, but when asked directly which one he just calls me a liar and repeats his (gibberish) mantra. That's not pro-town behaviour. Perhaps it was obvious to you that he meant posturing? But where was the pro-town motivation is refusing to make it obvious to me? My question was not difficult.

He was flip-flopping in his discussion with me. I was literally the only one reading his posts in connection to me. If scum did think Having's lynch was inevitable then why the Jailkeeper claim?

"Why would scum try to get credit for a scum lynch" is a retarded question, and you should be ashamed for making it.

How come competing wagons stopped Having from being lynched when Two voted him first, and went down so smoothly when it was Nacho? Did those competing wagons simply vanish? No. The competing wagons is obviously not a valid reason for saying why the wagon stalled with Two and went smoothly with Nacho.

Luv: in your second paragraph you are calling me a liar and saying I had read the thread. But then later posts are saying that I'm scum for not reading the thread. Did I somehow unread the thread in my intervening posts.

Everyone: Please just reread the creation of the final Having wagon. The fact that Having was lynched Day One was not down to Two. Just read the pages in question, it's not ambiguous. Two's most recent comment on Having before Nacho's interrogation is explicitly giving up on Having been lynched Day One. Nacho - and accidentally Gamma - are responsible for Having being lynched. I'm not saying trust
me over your memories. I'm saying reread the pages in question. It's not ambiguous.

If that requires my flip first then that's fine. But once it's proven that I am town, could people just read the relevant pages. Please.

It's off when you just subbed in and gave no indication in your opening post of having played with him prior like you did with Nacho. If me and Nacho weren't masons and you had asked him that same question, I wouldn't have given it a second thought because you at least showed that you knew him prior to this game and for all I know that's enough of a reason you may have to trust his summary of the game for the time being.

Giving reads isn't exactly pro-town and it definitely isn't when 3 of those reads you got were from Nacho. You didn't say you skimmed or you read just ISOs, you had claimed to have not read the game. There is no way you could have that read on Josh with that claim which is why I called you a liar. Your case on Josh still doesn't make him scum. Active lurking is NAI. Also, why does it sound like you're trying to get town credit for giving reads yet you criticized TF for claiming he was trying to get town credit for saying the wagon on Fitz was all him?

I don't trust you because I think you're scum and I was actually there. The reason people came around to Fitz were mostly for the reasons TF laid out.

TF's 2189 addresses this point fairly well.

All the answers he's given to that question are pretty much the same thing, you just keep arguing semantics.

This is dumb. Scum want to live just as much as town do. Of course some sort of fake claim was going to be thrown out.

Competing wagons stopped Fitz from being lynched quickly because people essentially wanted to policy lynch Creeps and also wanted to lynch Hiraki because his play didn't read like it was coming from town and was screaming scum. It looked like Nacho was the one that got Fitz lynched because he subbed in very late into a day which had taken such a toll on the town. We gave in and we lucked out.

I am calling you scum because you have shown you're not willing to reread the game throughly. If you were willing, we would probably not be having this discussion right now.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

uhhhhhh
VOTE: Twoface VOTE:
Okay that's a lie
Scoty claimed tracker and you were still on her wagon without a 2nd thought.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68822

Don't have the time to reread right now but if true, wow.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Luv:
I'll answer Luv's 2181 point by point.

Interacting with the largest wagon and asking things from it is not "off". That's retarded.

Giving your reads as they're created is obviously pro-town. My read on Josh was dead-on so I appreciate why you might think that it surely couldn't have come without a thorough reading, but it did. Josh had loads of posts, but none really that Nacho considered worth responding to or quoting. That's scum flying under the radar. That's active lurking. I was dead-on.

Read the thread. Read the pages either side of Nacho's vote if you think that reading all of Day One is too much work. Two is not the reason that the Hiraki and Creep wagons were overcome and scum got lynched. That came from Nacho and Gamma. Two was making no effort to get Having lynched Day One when the final wagon got on him. These are simply facts that happened. Don't trust me, look at the pages in question.

That's not semantics. If he is claiming to have a policy in this game. And it certainly looks like a policy in this game. But it wasn't a policy in those other games. Regardless, I literally said that I am willing to concede the argument in that post. That's not remotely arguing over semantics.

I have never said that Two going off the wagon was scummy - maybe before he said the policy - although I've acknowledged that it ought to be. What is scummy is that Two won't give a straight answer to questions about why he unvoted. "I don't lynch claimed PRs" is nonsense; it's impossible. It is halfway between "I won't be on the wagon of a claimed PR day one. Just won't" and "I'll try to keep claimed PRs from being lynched" Posturing or protecting, but when asked directly which one he just calls me a liar and repeats his (gibberish) mantra. That's not pro-town behaviour. Perhaps it was obvious to you that he meant posturing? But where was the pro-town motivation is refusing to make it obvious to me? My question was not difficult.

He was flip-flopping in his discussion with me. I was literally the only one reading his posts in connection to me. If scum did think Having's lynch was inevitable then why the Jailkeeper claim?

"Why would scum try to get credit for a scum lynch" is a retarded question, and you should be ashamed for making it.

How come competing wagons stopped Having from being lynched when Two voted him first, and went down so smoothly when it was Nacho? Did those competing wagons simply vanish? No. The competing wagons is obviously not a valid reason for saying why the wagon stalled with Two and went smoothly with Nacho.

Luv: in your second paragraph you are calling me a liar and saying I had read the thread. But then later posts are saying that I'm scum for not reading the thread. Did I somehow unread the thread in my intervening posts.

Everyone: Please just reread the creation of the final Having wagon. The fact that Having was lynched Day One was not down to Two. Just read the pages in question, it's not ambiguous. Two's most recent comment on Having before Nacho's interrogation is explicitly giving up on Having been lynched Day One. Nacho - and accidentally Gamma - are responsible for Having being lynched. I'm not saying trust
me over your memories. I'm saying reread the pages in question. It's not ambiguous.

If that requires my flip first then that's fine. But once it's proven that I am town, could people just read the relevant pages. Please.

It's off when you just subbed in and gave no indication in your opening post of having played with him prior like you did with Nacho. If me and Nacho weren't masons and you had asked him that same question, I wouldn't have given it a second thought because you at least showed that you knew him prior to this game and for all I know that's enough of a reason you may have to trust his summary of the game for the time being.

I did not interact with him to sheep him. I interacted to try to get a read on him since he was the biggest wagon. Is that honestly a concept you are unfamiliar with?

Giving reads isn't exactly pro-town and it definitely isn't when 3 of those reads you got were from Nacho. You didn't say you skimmed or you read just ISOs, you had claimed to have not read the game. There is no way you could have that read on Josh with that claim which is why I called you a liar.

I also made several references to Nacho's reads. Do you genuinely think i was trying to give the impression that i had read nothing related to the game? I had not read the game at that point just the mod's and Nacho's posts. If you'rte coming me scum for "arguing semantics" then how do you explain the beam in a mason's eye? surely that would be the definition of NAI if a mason like yourself is relying on it.

Your case on Josh still doesn't make him scum.

And whatever case was made on your slot didn't make you scum. and whatever case was made against hiraki doesn't make him scum. This is garbage reasoning for thinking somebody is scummy.

Active lurking is NAI. Also, why does it sound like you're trying to get town credit for giving reads yet you criticized TF for claiming he was trying to get town credit for saying the wagon on Fitz was all him?

I'm not trying to get towncred. I'm saying that calling providing content scummy is risible - particularly when you're calling active lurking null.

I don't trust you because I think you're scum and I was actually there. The reason people came around to Fitz were mostly for the reasons TF laid out.

TF's 2189 addresses this point fairly well.

You do not have to trust me. I am not asking you to trust me. Take ten minutes to read the relevant part of the thread.

All the answers he's given to that question are pretty much the same thing, you just keep arguing semantics.

This is dumb. Scum want to live just as much as town do. Of course some sort of fake claim was going to be thrown out.

If he was fakeclaiming to increase his chances of stying alive, then his odds of staying alive after the lynch was - to the scum's perspective - not inevitable.

Competing wagons stopped Fitz from being lynched quickly because people essentially wanted to policy lynch Creeps and also wanted to lynch Hiraki because his play didn't read like it was coming from town and was screaming scum. It looked like Nacho was the one that got Fitz lynched because he subbed in very late into a day which had taken such a toll on the town. We gave in and we lucked out.

The competing wagons were stil there when nacho subbed in. The existance of competing wagons does not explain where it took 20 pages after he made it for Two's arguments to magically create the successful wagon.

I am calling you scum because you have shown you're not willing to reread the game throughly. If you were willing, we would probably not be having this discussion right now.

Don't be a hypocrite. I've read the game thoroughly. If you thought that I hadn't, then you'd be willing to read the handful of pages relevant to this discussion. If you're actively avoiding looking at readily available evidence then that's not because you think the evidence will confirm your suspicions.

If Nacho had not voted Having at the end then Having would not have been lyynched day One. If Gamma had not followed - something he very easily could have avoided - then Having would not have been lynched. Two, on the other hand, had no such freely-made keystone choice. You don't have to trust me on that. You can read the thread. The primary source is right here. Its easy! If you're reading this sentence then you're most the way there.

P-Edit: I said policy in 1965. You continued the use in 1966. You gave examples in 1967. Regardless has there ever been a more semantics argument that "I never used the exact word"?

That's a lie. I am not the one bringing it up. That's Luv (and I think) you.

Oh I understand the concept, it just doesn't make sense to me when you claimed you haven't read. I honestly think town would be more interested finding out for themselves why the wagon formed and who is/was reluctant to join it.

It didn't sound like you were joking when you said you hadn't read at all and if you only read the posts from the mod and Nacho, why wouldn't you just state that? Even then, how did Nacho's posts give you that read on Josh at that point?

I'm not saying and have never said you're scum for calling someone an active lurker. I'm just saying that doesn't make Josh scum.

Your reads list wasn't really content. There was no depth to it and looked very easy to fake.

I took a look and right after Nacho asked for TF to explained why he found Fitz to be scum in 935, he was convinced to vote for him in 938 based on TF's 937. He never moves his vote at any point that day and even tried to get Gamma to compromise in 992.

And yes the competing wagons were still there, that doesn't change the fact that the people on those wagons were stubborn. Also, Nacho is a mason and reads like an experienced player to me and some of the newer players on the site, we were waiting for him to catch-up and give his own reads shortly after he voted for Fitz.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Just waiting on Nacho lol.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Nacho, who do you think is AJ's partner? I want to lynch there.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

So how about we vote Gamma today? That slot has been scum for me by PoE for a while now.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Gamma

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Welp. Nacho if you're reading this please post any last minute thoughts/reads in the mason PT.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Not sure how to feel about being right about AJ.

VOTE: King

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Right now, yes. I SR him more than I do Gamma.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Nope. I think he forgot to leave any final words due to the holidays.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'm down with either by the way.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Can't say I expected that
I rather Gamma get lynched over EMP but

I really don't have a pref cause I don't both are scum.

Huh?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

That ninja..

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I think both could be but I also think with the AJ flip, anyone not me could be.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'm likely going to hang back for a bit, see what sticks out at me.

Why are you taking this stance at this stage of the game?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

UNVOTE:

Not ending the day until I hear back from Gamma.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Gamma:

Are you still scum reading King?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Thinking.

A part of me wants to do Gamma but then there's another part of me that's like King is obvious scum and if he somehow isn't, tip your hat to scum.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Give me this today TF. I wanted it Day 3 and didn't get it.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Why? Gamma feels like scum trying to lurk out the day and his flip scum or not should make it obvious who is town and who isn't.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

We still have a mislynch left right?

Could everyone else just weigh in? I know this game is boring but the silence is disturbing and ultimately not helpful. If King flips town, who's scum? If Gamma flips town, who's scum?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

There's too many unknowns in this game still. Ari and Sonia in particular.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

It be easier if we just had one scum left but we have fucking two. I just want to flip the slot that would give the town the most information here before I die.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

It's not about whether it makes sense, it's about Gamma's play. Excluding him asking me claim because for me personally I'm not going to scum read him for that, he's done nothing that makes me want to TR him. Every time I sit and make a reads list, I'm always going back to PoE him as scum. That's a red flag in my book.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Like I feel regardless of a King flip, the town is just going to go back to the dysfunction we hard earlier.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

No, but there is still a slight possibility that King is just VI.

The problem I have with a King lynch is that no one can tell me who is the definite focus for Day 5 regardless of flip. With Gamma it's like, okay, Day 5 should be at the most two hours but with a King lynch, Day 5 is just going to lead to whole bunch of back and forth with no end in sight and a likely compromise on a town slot. I rather not have the town lose that way.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Alright, if I don't hear from Sonia tonight, I'll vote for King.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: King

Fuck it. Someone hammer away.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Haven't seen Sonia in a while.

Josh, hammer please.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE:

Please.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Bold counts...?

RULES

Day Phase

13. Players may vote to lynch another player using either vote tags or bold tags as demonstrated below.
VOTE: Name

Vote: Name

In order to be counted, votes should appear on a separate line and not within spoiler tags or otherwise concealed. Votes not following this format may be counted if I believe that a vote was intended.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

DC Comics themed game!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

DC Comics themed game!

Like I can do charachters and shit but I'm not creative with flavor.

That is basically flavor unless you're talking about having trouble with powers and stuff?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Can we get back to the game plz

No.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Mod is on vacation

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yay!