Micro 670: Death Miller Mafia 2 GAME OVER

[mykonian]

votecount

Charloux (3): rb, Road Kamelot, culted
karnos (2): GuiltyLion, Lemons
GuiltyLion (2): BTD6_maker, karnos

not voting (1): ArcAngel9, Charloux

7 days till deadline.

[culted]

Im not frustrated, im pissed off.
Here are my demands or ill become a pseudo lyncher/jester
1) rb takes this game seriously, uses his brain and does something that has value.
2)rk explaines her read on me and apologizes for spitting in my face when i asked her earlier.

@culted: why is me scumreading somebody who is gutvoting me scummy? Why is it scummy for me to be open with my thought process?

Sometimes it's you bud.

How could anyone think that you're scummy for scumreading someone. I wanted you to go into why you thought the naked vote was scummy not throw me some obvious bs about you wanting to hammer if their wagon got to L-1.

Then you get cheeky with me about asking filler questions like, why should I want to work with you if you're not gonna try and work with me and I ask again; if you have scumreads why aren't you voting for them?

[culted]

I kinda think Charloux is town tbh, like can someone who is scumreading the "fake" frustration break down for me why it's fake and not genuine?

karnos is still scum. It's frustrating that he's gonna just post one-liners like 179, ignore everything else going on, and you all are letting him off the hook for it.

culted's kinda making me paranoid too, like the stuff he's been saying as of my last post is pro-town and makes complete sense but it's really on the pulse about what's going on, like he's being extremely diligent to pay attention to what people are saying and he's really perceptive of the general threads of conversation. I want to push on this:

Naked votes aren't always scummy. Unless you're one of those robots who scumreads things irregardless of context then more power to ya.

That's also a terrible excuse to not vote a scumread.

VOTE: Charloux

Why exactly do you think Charloux is scum? Is it something more than "not voting a scumread"?

That's a pretty boring angle to push. You can read the post you just quoted.

Also, can you show me some examples of RK sorting the game? Seems odd of you to miss my questions to you since it looks like you're paying pretty close attention to me.

[culted]

like are you both seriously asking me to just explain why I'm town? What use is that to either of you? How is that a helpful question?

omg the semantics

How are you exactly reading BTD's push on you here? Hard to tell.

Also, this post in general is not at all town motivated. I will flip green. If karnos is town he is literally chaining mislynches. Only scum has incentive to be so bullheaded in their push that they wager their own lynch on it. If karnos were town I would expect him to be a little more uncertain. like I keep saying, I still don't understand why he thinks I'm scum, and he constantly refuses to answer.

That's a lot of words for an OMGUS read.

[rb]

Im not frustrated, im pissed off.
Here are my demands or ill become a pseudo lyncher/jester
1) rb takes this game seriously, uses his brain and does something that has value.
2)rk explaines her read on me and apologizes for spitting in my face when i asked her earlier.

@culted: why is me scumreading somebody who is gutvoting me scummy? Why is it scummy for me to be open with my thought process?

Sometimes it's you bud.

How could anyone think that you're scummy for scumreading someone. I wanted you to go into why you thought the naked vote was scummy not throw me some obvious bs about you wanting to hammer if their wagon got to L-1.

Then you get cheeky with me about asking filler questions like, why should I want to work with you if you're not gonna try and work with me and I ask again; if you have scumreads why aren't you voting for them?

Holy shit yeah, Charloux has all these players he finds scummy but isnt even voting.

More Charloux votes pls, Im happy lynching him now tbh

[ArcAngel9]

7 days to deadline. We still have enough time.
I ll get my thoughts up later today.

[Charloux]

Yeah, i'm gonna die today. I'll post what i think right now and leave the rest to you.

Spoiler:

Town:

GL

Townlean:

Karnos
RB
Culted

Null:

BTD6_Maker

Scumlean:

Lemons
ArcAngel

Scum:

Road Kamelot

I want you to at least tell me why your gut tells you i'm scum. It happens in 90% of my games regardless of alignment. Is it the tone or something?
And make Karnos claim tomorrow.

[rb]

Bro you dont even like play you just get angry and stuff. Is this normal for you?

[rb]

Charlohx why are you NOT voting one of your SRs?

[karnos]

Someone awhile back asked me who is scum if GL isn't.

Lemons. This thing of latching onto a bad logic push and then questioning it (but keeping his vote up), followed up by lurking and barely contributing... stinks of scum.

I don't believe both scum would push together so blatantly, but if guilty isn't guilty, my money is on lemons.

[Lemons]

I asked you, and I was waiting for an answer. Of course, that doesn't excuse my lurking in general. I have excuses about why I haven't been able to post, but I'd rather put my money where my mouth is and start contributing.

My initial vote on karnos was based mostly on something I saw scum do in my previous game. That being, claim to have some kind of 'plan' all game while refusing to share information. That said, there could be legitimate town reasons for this which I hadn't considered. Looking over karnos vs GL now, I still find karnos looking scummier between the two. GL has given good reasoning and has occasionally tried to contribute to other areas of the conversation. Karnos on the other hand has really only been defending himself and throwing shade toward his accusers, now including myself. It's interesting he would single me out for lurking, and not maker or angel.

Charloux's frustration seems forced to me. I can't understand how someone would get this upset over a day 1 L-2, to the point of self voting. It's also suspicious that he hasn't voted for anyone he finds scummy, as others have pointed out.

Rb still seems town. He's been contributing to conversation in a mostly constructive way, and I really don't see scummy intent there, even if Charloux flipped town.

Everyone else is null for now.

As I still find karnos the most scummy here, my vote will stay on him, though a charloux lynch could be alright.

[BTD6_maker]

Mod, I will be V/LA from the 26th December to the 5th January. I will still try to occasionally post though.

Anyway, GuiltyLion looks worse from what he says. He assumes that without any evidence that he is scum he should be considered Town, and that the game is about explaining why people are scum, not why people are Town. This does not hold up.

Firstly, if there are no reasons for Townreading or scumreading a player, that does not make them obvTown. It makes them null.

Secondly, looking at why players are Town (Townhunting) can be as helpful as scumhunting, and defending your claims that you are obvTown is helpful for others to assess whether you really are.

Thirdly, letting a baseless claim like "I am obvTown" stand without being challenged makes it meaningless. If you declare yourself obvTown but refuse to back it up, don't be surprised if it comes under scrutiny.

Also, your next posts are just as bad. "Everything I've done and why it can only come from scum and not town". This is serious misrep. I did not hold you as obvscum or even a moderate to strong scumread. In fact, I held you as nullscum. In that case, why would I be convinced that everything you did can only be from scum and not Town?

[rb]

Im gonna get to this game in a bit, have some thoughts.

[rb]

Okay so the thing is when I vote early day1 the vote moves if the player starts to towntell or someone else really scumtells. Charloux isn't being town and his responses to his wagon are really bad and I dislike them.

1. He has a lot of scumreads, doesn't have a vote on anyone - wut?
2. When I push on him, he's been complaining that I don't put out content, I'm not doing anything etc. and despite that I'm tunneling on him (presumably a town player) he still really thinks I'm town - wut?

But despite thinking I'm town, he wants to discredit me as much as possible but he's still insisting I am town. This is in my experience what happens when scum get caught. They can't agree with the reasoning or the wagon obviously, but they don't call me scum either because they know it'll make me tunnel harder.

So it's like, "ur town but ur wrong!" - I get NK'd on night 1 like all the fkn time as well because of this, to find that my day1 vote was on scum OR I was really close to outing some scum. Scum often TR me and just decide they're gonna kill me, because when I'm town I towntell hard and they can't mislynch me (and I guess i'm a decent scumhunter).

Charloux is playing in this weird way that I just don't see town really play - he's not solving, he's not pressuring, he isn't cooperating with anyone, he's just posting reads lists. He's making a lot of noise to get his wagon to dismantle, while doing really nothing else.

If he's town I'll be really disappointed, but I think he's scum.

[Road Kamelot]

Ok, lurking Road ends today! Five hour train rides with nothing but a wifi connection and videos blocked will do that. I'm happy with the Charloux wagon, but shit feels too easy. I'm really thinking rb is town here, but I've seen bad town do what Charloux is doing too. So I'll be rereading and getting a good basis from where I can be nice and active

[karnos]

Charlohx why are you NOT voting one of your SRs?

This is a good question.

7 days to deadline. We still have enough time.
I ll get my thoughts up later today.

No vote from you either. I think "later today" is already passed (although, India, funny timezone). I haven't played with ArcAngel but this seems like some really lurky play so far. Not calling her scummy just yet, but consider this a nudge to be more active please.

[karnos]

And now I see that a few minutes after my last post, ArcAngel posted in the open games queue, still no promised update here.

Null read starting to look worse.

[GuiltyLion]

That's a pretty boring angle to push. You can read the post you just quoted.

Why are you being snarky here instead of clarifying? I read the post I quoted, it still doesn't make sense to me. Do you have more behind your Charloux scumread beyond "he's not voting his scumreads"? Or is that it?

Also, can you show me some examples of RK sorting the game?

Sure - 36, 41, 74, 145 and 171 taken together, 208.

If you think RK is scummy and my townread is wrong, why not vote her and sell me on it? You suggested having doubts about scum!Charloux in 160, well I think Charloux is a Bad Wagon and your vote on it needs more justification, especially if you're gonna simultaneously be asking me about why I'm townreading another player.

[GuiltyLion]

How are you exactly reading BTD's push on you here? Hard to tell.

honestly BTD just makes me exhausted when I read his posts, dude's a brick wall and it seems like he's trying his damnedest to ignore the point of what I say and reframe the argument into something stupid. I'm not sure if he's scum or if he's just doing it unintentionally

[GuiltyLion]

Charloux's frustration seems forced to me. I can't understand how someone would get this upset over a day 1 L-2, to the point of self voting. It's also suspicious that he hasn't voted for anyone he finds scummy, as others have pointed out.

I don't buy this and neither should you. You can't understand him being upset, why not ask him about it? Why is it suspicious that he hasn't voted, why is that something that scum is more likely to do than town? Especially since other people have been asking him about it and voting him for it already.

[GuiltyLion]

Also, your next posts are just as bad. "Everything I've done and why it can only come from scum and not town". This is serious misrep. I did not hold you as obvscum or even a moderate to strong scumread. In fact, I held you as nullscum. In that case, why would I be convinced that everything you did can only be from scum and not Town?

I was mostly referring to karnos instead of you in that section. See these quotes from karnos:

and you conceded it was a "play error".

Nope. I said it *might* have been a play error.

But luckily you revealed your alignment by jumping on as only scum would

, so it's a fair trade.

My proposal: we lynch guilty lion. If he is town, he should be okay with being lynched because his flip will validate his argument and theoretically town could lynch me in retaliation.

Except that won't happen because he is going to flip red

.

I do want to know, BTD6 - why aren't you holding these claims up to the same level of scrutiny as you took on my "obvtown" remark? karnos is calling me scum and depending on his alignment he will naturally have different thought patterns as to why he is making that claim. My point is that his statements are more worth diving into, especially given that you're voting me already.

[GuiltyLion]

I do agree with karnos that if karnos is town, Lemons would look a lot worse as of his latest few posts.

Currently I'm sitting here

townblock: {RK, rb}
probably town: {Charloux}

needs to actually do shit: {AA9, BTD6}
scummy-but-there's-at-least-one-town-in-here: {karnos, Lemons, culted}

[rb]

Why is RK town

[rb]

Like dont give me reasons for why she's town I'm more asking how she isnt likely scum from your POV.

Not that it really matters atm. I could actually lynch ArcAngel too.

[karnos]

Also, your next posts are just as bad. "Everything I've done and why it can only come from scum and not town". This is serious misrep. I did not hold you as obvscum or even a moderate to strong scumread. In fact, I held you as nullscum. In that case, why would I be convinced that everything you did can only be from scum and not Town?

I was mostly referring to karnos instead of you in that section. See these quotes from karnos:

and you conceded it was a "play error".

Nope. I said it *might* have been a play error.

But luckily you revealed your alignment by jumping on as only scum would

, so it's a fair trade.

My proposal: we lynch guilty lion. If he is town, he should be okay with being lynched because his flip will validate his argument and theoretically town could lynch me in retaliation.

Except that won't happen because he is going to flip red

.

I do want to know, BTD6 - why aren't you holding these claims up to the same level of scrutiny as you took on my "obvtown" remark? karnos is calling me scum and depending on his alignment he will naturally have different thought patterns as to why he is making that claim. My point is that his statements are more worth diving into, especially given that you're voting me already.

I hate to answer for someone else, but your question is so illogical it demands a response.

My claim that you are scum actually puts me at risk. If I am wrong, and you come up as town somehow, I'll probably get lynched in return. i'm willing to take that risk, obviously, but it's a risk I am taking.

OTOH you are not really taking any risk at all by claiming you are obvtown, as the only way to prove you wrong would be to flip you or investigate you, in which case you are dead anyway. You aren't *really* risking anything by making the claim, because disproving the claim costs you your life in the game anyway.