Mini Normal 1857 (Game Over - Mafia Wins!)

[Titus]

Lol, and what exactly would have done with that information?

Shot my target

[Drone]

With? Someone else have been targeted anyway.
Much to my surprise actually.

[gerryoat]

Did you tell drone who you were targeting?

She did, one minute before her post here, with the same information.

Did you tell drone who you were targeting?

No. I did not trust him.

ummmm. so did she or did she not lol

[Drone]

Not whom, but that she didn't get a result.

[Titus]

With? Someone else have been targeted anyway.
Much to my surprise actually.

The scumkill.

[Drone]

You sent me the result when the day already began.

[Titus]

You sent me the result when the day already began.

Right. I did not tell you at night my target. So you would not shoot my target or fuck with my result.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So did you tell Drone "I got a no result on [this player]" once day broke, or did you tell him "I got no result" once day broke? Also did you tell him whether you'd be GSing or JKing last night?

[Titus]

Gs no result, did not say which action

I am inclined to think my target is ascetic

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I got no result on my gs check. I am treating this as a guilty on the target. Result at midday.

Also how can no result be treated as a guilty? Just curious what the logic is even if it's moonlogic

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That seems like an odd conclusion for what's confirmed in this setup

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Do you have any reason to believe your target is ascetic rather than you got roleblocked?

[Titus]

That seems like an odd conclusion for what's confirmed in this setup

Limited shot investigatives, plus scum strongman (which is the theory we went with yesterday), suggests no RB.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What about scum JOAT with 1xRB 1xNinja and 1xStrongman to balance town JOAT?

[Titus]

What about scum JOAT with 1xRB 1xNinja and 1xStrongman to balance town JOAT?

Possible.

[shannon]

I had to read up on the ascetic thing, and OK, it makes sense as a role modifier that could give 'no result' to the GS investigation. Are there any other roles that could do the same? Is ascetic necessarily scum, or just more likely in the current scenario?

Prima facie I'd say that we should ask for a claim from whoever Titus' target was, and then discuss whether it's plausible and lynch the hell out of it if not. If the target flips town with no modifier that would suggest a no result, then Titus is a no-brainer lynch the next day.




I'm clearly out of the loop here, can anyone explain?

[shannon]

Ugh hit enter too quickly without fixing my nonsensical last sentence.

I'm clearly out of the loop here, can anyone explain what the other options are for 'no result' investigations?

[Titus]

I had to read up on the ascetic thing, and OK, it makes sense as a role modifier that could give 'no result' to the GS investigation. Are there any other roles that could do the same? Is ascetic necessarily scum, or just more likely in the current scenario?

Prima facie I'd say that we should ask for a claim from whoever Titus' target was, and then discuss whether it's plausible and lynch the hell out of it if not. If the target flips town with no modifier that would suggest a no result, then Titus is a no-brainer lynch the next day.




I'm clearly out of the loop here, can anyone explain?

VOTE: Shannon

Why leave out I was roleblocked?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I've been through the mini normal archives, using ctrl+F to find all the setups with JOATs and found several games with Joats and X-shot or even full mafia roleblockers. I think it's reasonable to assume that there is a roleblocker and a strongman in this setup, whether they are X-shot or if they are both 1-shots on a single JOAT is another matter.

She may have gotten no result if she was Roleblocked or if her target was a Commuter or a Hider. I'm not lynching based solely on a No Result because it does not allow for us to prove Titus is scum if her target flips town. I would gladly trade 1 town for 1 scum but that is not guaranteed here.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Actually nevermind, if there is a roleblocker that is even 1-shot they could have blocked Transcend and killed him last night, and it would be a good plan if Mafia has a roleblocker to block Transcend and kill him because they know he is a good player with a PR that was part of the townblock. Universal Backup is a convenient claim post-flip that would make us want to let Titus live longer because we would now think she has Transcend's remaining powers. Her push on TTTT D1 was an attempt to start a different cw to rb because the Gerry wagon wasn't taking off. If Titus flips scum it's possible Raskol or Drone were the scum trying to counter rb's wagon, or that Gerry is scum and she had to make a completely new wagon to counter all this. More likely Gerry is town in this case because Titus was throwing shade at Gerry early D2 for assuming that it was a strongman that killed Transcend.

VOTE: Titus

[Titus]

Dude, is my target your buddy? You got hostile awful quick after I revealed the no result?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No, I don't have a buddy. I also don't know who your target is yet since you haven't revealed it. Your claim and attempts to convince us the setup doesn't have a Roleblocker and indicates an Aesthetic seem fabricated to me to mislead town into lynching your target, at which point you can just say "I got No Result so it's not my fault they were town after all!"

[Titus]

No, I don't have a buddy. I also don't know who your target is yet since you haven't revealed it. Your claim and attempts to convince us the setup doesn't have a Roleblocker and indicates an Aesthetic seem fabricated to me to mislead town into lynching your target, at which point you can just say "I got No Result so it's not my fault they were town after all!"

That's a highly melodramatic and defensive reaction, to something I left on the table for the group to discuss. If this setup does have a roleblocker, then my result is worthless.

You seem to have a fair amount of cognitive dissonance to, arguing simultaneously that scum blocked me and I am scum.

Why the 180?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not arguing that you were RBed. I'm arguing that scum has a roleblocker that RBed Transcend N1 and that is how he died, because his BP is activated and therefore roleblockable according to the mod. I was explaining to shannon what other roles could have led to you receiving "No Result" if that is truly the result you received.
Is this what you left on the table for the group to discuss?

That seems like an odd conclusion for what's confirmed in this setup

Limited shot investigatives, plus scum strongman (which is the theory we went with yesterday), suggests no RB.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say "something." You're the one backpedaling from "I'm going to treat my No Result as a Guilty" to "If this setup does have a roleblocker, then my result is worthless." You seemed convinced a Roleblocker was impossible so I did an archived game dive and saw that a roleblocker is not uncommon with a JOAT at all.

What do you think I'm 180ing on? After seeing LUVs claim was real, seeing that d7 was NKed after he and I pushed you most of yesterday, and seeing you try to waste half the day phase by not giving us the name of your target immediately is making me think you're scum even more than I did yesterday.

Who did you target last night, and why did you choose them?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You also have a funny way of reading an aggressive tone as defensive