Mini 532: Yaw's Split Open Mafia: (Game over)


User avatar
bird1111
bird1111
He
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
bird1111
He
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3322
Joined: May 11, 2006
Pronoun: He
Location: Clemson SC

Post Post #275 (ISO) » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:01 am

Post by bird1111 »

Prodded Zhao

Vote Count:
Zhao (3): SensFan, Holy, Off the Mark
Drunken Piper (1): Thanatos
Thantos (1): Phate
SensFan (1): Zhao
Off the Mark (1): Panzerjager
Phate (1): Korlash
QuickBen (1): DrunkenPiper

Not Voting (3): kabenon007, QuickBen, Jex

With 12 alive it is 7 to lynch.
Last edited by bird1111 on Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Thanatos
Thanatos
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Thanatos
Goon
Goon
Posts: 510
Joined: November 7, 2007

Post Post #276 (ISO) » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:02 am

Post by Thanatos »

OTM/Panzer, if the game is over, can you link to it?
Never forget...you are Mortal.
User avatar
Off the Mark
Off the Mark
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Off the Mark
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1284
Joined: May 3, 2007

Post Post #277 (ISO) » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:53 am

Post by Off the Mark »

Sure thing. It was a hell of a game, let me tell ya. Should be a fun read, but I doubt you'll trust me afterward. I was godfather in this game, and Panzer was scum along with me.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... highlight=
User avatar
Zhao
Zhao
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Zhao
Goon
Goon
Posts: 130
Joined: August 30, 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Post Post #278 (ISO) » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:57 am

Post by Zhao »

Drunken Piper wrote: Can you please explain their votes to me?
Sensfan voted for me because I misrepresented a relationship between him and Phate.

Holy thinks I’m purposely trying to start bandwagons.
OTM wrote: OK, even if you disagree with Phate's plan, at least he is trying to propose something to help the town in a game with a rather unusual setup. I doubt scum is going to be bold enough to put forth a plan like this so early in the game, therefore I immediately put Phate in the "trusted" category.
Is it to be expected that scum would push a pro-town plan at the end of day 1 or day 2 instead? This is my first normal game so you have to enlighten me. Besides, I don’t see why scum can’t think outside of the box.

I feel it’s dangerous to label someone townie based on an assumption. Just because something is unlikely to happen, doesn’t mean it won’t. What if Phate was scum and he knew either the reopener or switcher were scum. The vanilla townie doesn’t get a power role so his plan fails. Phate would blame it on one of the many possible factors, shrug and say oh well, at least we tried. Meanwhile since he pushed a pro-town move, he’s viewed as townie and can coast through the rest of the game.
OTM wrote: Zhao seems to equate bad plan with scum, which seems disingenuous to me, and not a true townie-thought-process, so I became suspicious when Zhao said Phate was suspicious.
I never equated bad plan with being scum. I guess the Haiku was a bit ambiguous.

The plan is not a good one because there are too many factors that need to fall into place. The reopener and switcher have to be townie. Also they both have to follow thought with the plan. The scum team could have many openings to exploit it.

I felt Phate was suspicious because he so resistant to criticism when he was trying to sell his plan. I would think that a townie would try to be more cooperative. He kept on saying his plan was flawless, and even when as far as saying that people that were against him were either dumb or scum.
OTM wrote: Sure, scum could come up with a bad plan that would benefit scum more than town, but that is SO risky, and Phate's plan doesn't strike me that way.
Like I said above, there are many possibilities to Phate’s plan that it would be difficult to say what happened if the plan failed. Or if the opportunity arose, the scum team would pull a move and no one would know.

So you are currently supporting Phate’s plan?



I should take my vote off Sensfan since there is no reason for it to be there.

Unvote
User avatar
Phate
Phate
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Phate
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1361
Joined: October 10, 2007

Post Post #279 (ISO) » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:02 am

Post by Phate »

Zhao, your entire post can be invalidated by the following word:


Playstyle.

If you weren't a newbie, I'd find it scummy, but you are, so I don't.

Unvote: Thanatos, Vote: OffTheMark
I will fuck up your name and gender. Deal with it.

PM me to replace into Infection Mafia, a semi-open Mini Theme.
User avatar
Korlash
Korlash
Krap Logick
User avatar
User avatar
Korlash
Krap Logick
Krap Logick
Posts: 6579
Joined: August 23, 2007
Location: The Constellation of Kasterborous

Post Post #280 (ISO) » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:30 pm

Post by Korlash »

Phate... You wana.. um... give reasons? Or you wana keep appearing scummy? Either one is fine... You know, just go on and do your thing... I'll use it against you later...
It's not my job to be right, it's my job to be convincing.

Star Trek Voyager Mafia! Ends in a Starfleet victory! Pomp, Circumstance, and Bloodwine for all!
User avatar
Phate
Phate
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Phate
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1361
Joined: October 10, 2007

Post Post #281 (ISO) » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:12 pm

Post by Phate »

Bah. I thought those were apparent to everyone else. Ok, reasons forthcoming:

Playstyle: I'm irritatingly arrogant, and right almost enough to justify that. I tend not to repeat myself; if someone has asked for an explanation of something I've already explained I prefer to ignore them. When I find their posts illegible, logically flawed, or otherwise moronic, I find personally insulting my fellow scummers to be acceptable both as a valuable gauging tool and for my own perverse satisfaction. When I do explain myself, I'm highly logical and prone towards massive analyses when I have the time or am highly interested in the game. Endgames are exciting to me. Anything where I get a chance to rule things out definitely a la logic puzzles are exciting to me. When the game interests me, I'm likely to play town leader; otherwise, I'm likely to watch from the shadows, posting once a day or so with my general thoughts on the situation. I don't mind helping newbies, as long as they're quick to learn. Because it's hard for me to get a read on them, I'm reluctant to lynch a newbie. I tend to defend myself extremely vigorously.
Is it to be expected that scum would push a pro-town plan at the end of day 1 or day 2 instead? This is my first normal game so you have to enlighten me. Besides, I don’t see why scum can’t think outside of the box.
In my experience, scum never propose strong plans or weak plans, and very rarely do they propose medium plans. Scum generally play reactively. Of course, there are exceptions that prove the rule, so you shouldn't automatically clear anyone based on the fact that they've proposed a plan.
I feel it’s dangerous to label someone townie based on an assumption. Just because something is unlikely to happen, doesn’t mean it won’t. What if Phate was scum and he knew either the reopener or switcher were scum. The vanilla townie doesn’t get a power role so his plan fails. Phate would blame it on one of the many possible factors, shrug and say oh well, at least we tried. Meanwhile since he pushed a pro-town move, he’s viewed as townie and can coast through the rest of the game.
The obvious solution here is to not label me as confirmed town just because I proposed the plan. Of course, by the same token, my proposing the plan shouldn't be seen as scummy, either, with the only evidence being that if I were scum I'd know how to mess the plan up.

I am resistant to criticism. I'm not terribly cooperative, either. That's not a scumtell, that's my playstyle.

I think that's all of Zhao's pseudo-accusations.


Reasons for voting OTM:

I've been mentioning for some time now that I think he's been scummy, and why. Go read me in isolation and you'll find that. Post 273 only confirms his scumminess to me. I won't defend anyone else (not because I think any of his cases are anywhere at all close to valid - I don't - but because I'm interested in seeing those accused defend themselves), but automatically putting me at the top of his trusted list because I proposed the switching plan is not only bullshit but it feels like surreptious buddying up.
I will fuck up your name and gender. Deal with it.

PM me to replace into Infection Mafia, a semi-open Mini Theme.
User avatar
Korlash
Korlash
Krap Logick
User avatar
User avatar
Korlash
Krap Logick
Krap Logick
Posts: 6579
Joined: August 23, 2007
Location: The Constellation of Kasterborous

Post Post #282 (ISO) » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:17 pm

Post by Korlash »

Wow... For a second I thought the only reason you were going to give was "Post 273 confirmed his scumminess." That wouldn't have blown over so well...
It's not my job to be right, it's my job to be convincing.

Star Trek Voyager Mafia! Ends in a Starfleet victory! Pomp, Circumstance, and Bloodwine for all!
User avatar
Thanatos
Thanatos
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Thanatos
Goon
Goon
Posts: 510
Joined: November 7, 2007

Post Post #283 (ISO) » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:55 pm

Post by Thanatos »

As I'm almost positive I mentioned in the past, OTM has come off really scummy to me. Phate's vote on him was unexpected, but it's convinced me to
Vote:OTM
, with intent to lynch. It's late, so I'll go into detail tomorrow.
Never forget...you are Mortal.
User avatar
kabenon007
kabenon007
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
kabenon007
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1186
Joined: April 19, 2007
Location: Cannot be disclosed, as it would jeapordize my mission

Post Post #284 (ISO) » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:59 pm

Post by kabenon007 »

If Phate's vote was unexpected, how did it convince you to vote for OffTheMark?
I put the "laughter" in manslaughter.
User avatar
Off the Mark
Off the Mark
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Off the Mark
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1284
Joined: May 3, 2007

Post Post #285 (ISO) » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:40 am

Post by Off the Mark »

This
Zhao wrote:I felt Phate was suspicious because he so resistant to criticism when he was trying to sell his plan. I would think that a townie would try to be more cooperative. He kept on saying his plan was flawless, and even when as far as saying that people that were against him were either dumb or scum.
is absolutely correct. Phate's reactions to the challenges of his plan have been ridiculous. However, I agree with Phate that this comes down to playstyle. Phate may be an arrogant bastard, but this unfortunately does not make him scum. I still consider him trustworthy as town, but I do not find it fun to be a "teammate" with someone like this and I almost want to vote him off just to improve the game.

This
Phate wrote:I'm irritatingly arrogant
couldn't be more true, and it is annoying to me that you see this in yourself and you choose not to change. Do you like pissing everyone else off or what?

Phate - please tell me what about post 273 makes you so sure I'm scum. You voted for me with no reason whatsoever and then Thanatos hopped on board with no reason.

Therefore,

unvote, vote: Thanatos


Thanatos: You are a tagalong, and you've done nothing to make me think you're playing for the town. All you've done is react to Phate (usually negatively) and now you're jumping on a bandwagon he started, on a player I know is townie, with no reasons of your own. You've earned this vote.
User avatar
Phate
Phate
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Phate
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1361
Joined: October 10, 2007

Post Post #286 (ISO) » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:41 am

Post by Phate »

[quote="OffTheMark]Do you like pissing everyone else off or what?
Do you like pissing everyone else off or what? [/quote]

Yes.

I have already adequately explained my reasons.
I will fuck up your name and gender. Deal with it.

PM me to replace into Infection Mafia, a semi-open Mini Theme.
User avatar
Off the Mark
Off the Mark
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Off the Mark
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1284
Joined: May 3, 2007

Post Post #287 (ISO) » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:08 am

Post by Off the Mark »

No you didn't. You had some reasons before, but as Korlash so eloquently and sarcastically pointed out, all you said recently was "post 273 confirms him as scum." That's not a reason.
User avatar
Phate
Phate
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Phate
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1361
Joined: October 10, 2007

Post Post #288 (ISO) » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:09 am

Post by Phate »

I've been mentioning for some time now that I think he's been scummy, and why. Go read me in isolation and you'll find that. Post 273 only confirms his scumminess to me. I won't defend anyone else (not because I think any of his cases are anywhere at all close to valid - I don't - but because I'm interested in seeing those accused defend themselves), but automatically putting me at the top of his trusted list because I proposed the switching plan is not only bullshit but it feels like surreptious buddying up.
I will fuck up your name and gender. Deal with it.

PM me to replace into Infection Mafia, a semi-open Mini Theme.
User avatar
Off the Mark
Off the Mark
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Off the Mark
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1284
Joined: May 3, 2007

Post Post #289 (ISO) » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:15 am

Post by Off the Mark »

Oh, that's all? The top of the trust list, that's what's bothering you? FYI - the orders of the list mean nothing... I'm not that specific in my suspicions. I just put you down first because you have stood out as memorable.

If I had to pick players I trust the most at this point, it would be Holy, Korlash, and SensFan.
User avatar
Off the Mark
Off the Mark
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Off the Mark
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1284
Joined: May 3, 2007

Post Post #290 (ISO) » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:17 am

Post by Off the Mark »

Phate, to change gears slightly, what do you think of Thanatos's recent hop-on of your bandwagon? Doesn't THAT seem like buddying up, since it seems to irk you so much when people agree with you?
User avatar
Phate
Phate
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Phate
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1361
Joined: October 10, 2007

Post Post #291 (ISO) » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:21 am

Post by Phate »

Even if I'm at the bottom of the trusted list, I still find your reasoning to be bullshit.
OffTheMark wrote:OK, even if you disagree with Phate's plan, at least he is trying to propose something to help the town in a game with a rather unusual setup. I doubt scum is going to be bold enough to put forth a plan like this so early in the game, therefore
I immediately put Phate in the "trusted" category
. Zhao seems to equate bad plan with scum, which seems disingenuous to me, and not a true townie-thought-process, so
I became suspicious when Zhao said Phate was suspicious
.
Thought process:
1. Phate has proposed a plan.
2. Regardless of the quality of the plan, this immediately makes Phate trustworthy.
3. Zhao thinks the plan is bad, and that Phate could be scum.
4. Zhao is added to the suspicious list.

That logic is incredibly bad, and it's one of the major reasons I see for the OTMscum case.
I will fuck up your name and gender. Deal with it.

PM me to replace into Infection Mafia, a semi-open Mini Theme.
User avatar
Phate
Phate
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Phate
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1361
Joined: October 10, 2007

Post Post #292 (ISO) » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:23 am

Post by Phate »

I enjoy it when people agree with me. It irks me when people agree with me without providing their own reasons. Thanatos says reasons are forthcoming, and I am granting him the benefit of the doubt. In addition, I believe (but am not certain) that he has mentioned reasons for his opinion of your scumminess in the past. Therefore, I need to read him in isolation again.
I will fuck up your name and gender. Deal with it.

PM me to replace into Infection Mafia, a semi-open Mini Theme.
User avatar
Off the Mark
Off the Mark
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Off the Mark
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1284
Joined: May 3, 2007

Post Post #293 (ISO) » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:23 am

Post by Off the Mark »

#2 is incorrect. If the plan felt like a scum setup, then I would not consider you trustworthy. As I said before, your plan doesn't strike me that way, therefore, yes, I consider you more trustworthy than other players who are simply reacting.
User avatar
Phate
Phate
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Phate
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1361
Joined: October 10, 2007

Post Post #294 (ISO) » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:26 am

Post by Phate »

Then why this?
OTM wrote:Sure, scum could come up with a bad plan that would benefit scum more than town, but that is SO risky
Implication is that good plan means protown means town, and bad plan means too risky to be scum means town. Complete WIFOM.
I will fuck up your name and gender. Deal with it.

PM me to replace into Infection Mafia, a semi-open Mini Theme.
User avatar
Off the Mark
Off the Mark
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Off the Mark
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1284
Joined: May 3, 2007

Post Post #295 (ISO) » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:27 am

Post by Off the Mark »

I also find it a little disturbing that you are saying my logic is suspect because I think you are a townie. If you ARE indeed a townie, shouldn't you just think I am perceptive? Perhaps you read too literally. I don't share ALL of my thoughts as I read the thread, or else I would dominate the thread with pages and pages of material. That's one of the hardest things for me when I play this game, is how much I choose to communicate, and what I choose to share.
User avatar
Off the Mark
Off the Mark
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Off the Mark
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1284
Joined: May 3, 2007

Post Post #296 (ISO) » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:28 am

Post by Off the Mark »

risky is not impossible, just unlikely
User avatar
Phate
Phate
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Phate
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1361
Joined: October 10, 2007

Post Post #297 (ISO) » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:35 am

Post by Phate »

That's one of the hardest things for me when I play this game, is how much I choose to communicate, and what I choose to share.
Indeed. That's why I am not mentioning some of the other reasons I have for voting you; they have to do with your attacks on other people that I find faulty. I choose not to share my perceptions those attacks at least until and unless those you've attacked defend themselves, however.

Thinking I'm probably a townie isn't scummy.
Saying I'm probably a townie usually isn't scummy.
Saying I'm on your trusted list - and validating that decision with faulty logic - is scummy.

If I said that Zhao was undeniably a townie because of post 272, where he asks you to link to your previous game with Panzer, that would be scummy, for several reasons.

The logic is bullshit.
Assuming someone's alignment based on flawed logic is scummy.
If that makes me scummy, the scumminess leaks over to Zhao, the guy I'm blatantly buddying up to.

I don't want to give scum a free chance to link themselves to me in anyone's mind.
I will fuck up your name and gender. Deal with it.

PM me to replace into Infection Mafia, a semi-open Mini Theme.
QuickBen
QuickBen
Goon
QuickBen
Goon
Goon
Posts: 176
Joined: November 10, 2007
Location: North Ridgeville, OH

Post Post #298 (ISO) » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:53 am

Post by QuickBen »

I do find myself agreeing with Phate as far as his logic goes. I'm actually much the same way when it comes to people stating they can trust me as the only people who can positively identify me as town are scum (providing there's no evidence of a SK) and the cop (who shouldn't be dumb enough to say anything that bold unless I'm in danger of being lynched).
User avatar
bird1111
bird1111
He
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
bird1111
He
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3322
Joined: May 11, 2006
Pronoun: He
Location: Clemson SC

Post Post #299 (ISO) » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:01 am

Post by bird1111 »

Bumping Vote Count onto the next page.

Return to “Completed Mini Theme Games”