Open 661: Pick Your Poison [Game Over]

[nn30]

Nice avatar Gamma.

VOTE: gamma

[nn30]

@Lickety - explain that logic please

[nn30]

This is not an RVS vote.

VOTE: Realeo

His 62 followed by his 64 feels like he's trying too hard to please. His 69 feels too defensive for this early in the game and his 74 once again feels like he's trying too hard to be buddy buddy.

[nn30]

That's a start.

Thoughts on the substance of the post itself?

[nn30]

And I can town read you for taking away my town read for not questioning your town read on me.

*whew*

In all seriousness, the 'that's a start' was more of a 'great, what do you think of the actual post' than 'SWEET I'M GETTING TOWN READ.'

I can see how you interpreted this post the other way, though. My initial thought was just that - not to trust you throwing me a town-read. You just modded a game with me in it and could see that I tend to care about whether or not I'm getting town read and could use that against me in this game.

[nn30]

@Lickety - I mixed up my mods. I was referring to Art Mafia, modded by SirCakez, which just finished. I mixed the two of you up in the post game chat as well. Thanks for not speaking further on the game in progress - I oopsed by accidentally bringing it up.

@Realeo

Spoiler:

This is not an RVS vote.

VOTE: Realeo

His 62 followed by his 64 feels like he's trying too hard to please. His 69 feels too defensive for this early in the game and his 74 once again feels like he's trying too hard to be buddy buddy.

My respond:

1) 62 + 64. Sorry? Your point being? "Too hard to please"?

2) 69. I can relate to that.

3) 74. I asked LQ about his "strong evidence" and he said "You would not like my playstyle. LQ, in turn, question my agression. I said "That's how I roll." Isn't it natural that I said "we will get used to each other" when both of us shows sign of disturbed by each other play style.

1) Don't play dumb. You've got enough games under your belt to know that a player trying too hard to please others is scummy.
2) You can relate to that? What?
3) Sure, I guess. To answer your next question - the smiley is what makes it eager to please. The sentiment was fine but the smiley put it over the top.

[nn30]

A smiley, seriously? I'd love to see you play irl mafia and try to keep a straight face.

IRL mafia and forum mafia are poor comparisons.

Body language IRL is very important to discerning if somebody is lying.

All we have to go on with forum mafia is tone - and a smiley face implies a particular tone.

[nn30]

I'm in 6 games right now (I've made a huge mistake...) so I don't actually remember why I had a gut scum read on you Cheese, but I had one before this post.

I still don't see the problem with it. Perhaps you are reading too much into this?

Or perhaps I'm blind.

After this post, the scum read has only intensified. The bold is a hedge that scum put into their interactions with town. You're trying to appear amicable here with the bolded sentence. It could come from either alignment, but IMO it's more likely to come from scum. Townies don't care if they piss somebody off by being intractable. Scum do. I picked up on this because I did similar things in my first scum game.

VOTE: Cheesy

[nn30]

I think our differences come from the fact I have experience mostly in real life mafia where interactions are different and you get instant feedback from everybody. It's difficult to adjust.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go


Check out my 97 from this game. I'm scum. I used the very same defense you're using right now.

[nn30]

Are you an alternate reality version of me Cheesy?

[nn30]

Forgive me for not believing you.

I want to explore alternate dimension me though.

1) What year is it over there?

2) How tall are you?

3) Tits ass or dick?

4) Were you a Bernie bro?

[nn30]

Hmmm..........

Ok.

I'm interested in other townie's feelings on Cheesy. I'm done questioning the witness for now.

[nn30]

And I got my first 4 move mate as a 14 y/o, I also ran the school chess club, so what if you made a checkmate. That's besides the point though, I'm going to struggle to apply logic to this thread tonight as I got home from school two and a half hours ago, left 45 minutes later returned 70 minutes later and I have to go out again in 20 minutes for 2 hours, which takes me round to 10 p.m. GMT by which time I will lack the capacity to pick up my phone and read this.

Chess is great. A+

Looking forward to hearing about your thoughts on the game at hand.

[nn30]

Not impressed by TB. He seems to be pushing Cheesy on play he knows is the player's town play.
VOTE: ThinkBig

That's pre-flip.

Not pre-flip, misapplied meta.

Misapplied meta can come from stupid town too.

[nn30]

Also, the tone coming from Cheezy's posts totally switched in the last couple pages and I really can't figure out why.

[nn30]

Still not liking Cheesy.

[nn30]

????

[nn30]

So who's scum?

I think I like Mr.Snowman the least.
Realeo pinged me with that "parking the vote and unvoting" thing, which ThinkBig pointed out (credit to him) but I think it may be playstyle related on nn30 hurried too much with his vote. However it's fine since they apparently don't know each other so I'm going to assume it was a Town vs Town interaction.
Going back to Mr.Snowman I don't like the only things he posted is a fluff post and a setup speculation post.

But I think it's too early to judge with the amount of content he's provided.

On re-read, this pinged me as way scummy from Cheesy.

His comments on Realeo are unoriginal so I can't give any town credit there.

His original thoughts are on SnarkySnowman - and at the time of 128 Snowman had made a whopping two posts. So instead of looking at the game and making an earnest effort to solve the game, he took a swipe at low hanging fruit. He even acknowledged this with the bolded from above.

This approach is non-commital, fence-sitty, and more likely to be scum motivated than town motivated.

More Cheesy votes guys.

[nn30]

At least he's taking a decisive stance

Heh, you're an adorable hypocrite Cheesy!

@Town - ISO him. In the entire game, he's taken exactly 1 hard stance and it was in order to vote Vedith based on meta (fairly weak). The rest of what he's done is poke holes in other people's thoughts.

He isn't scum hunting.
He isn't town hunting.
He isn't trying to solve the game.

He's scum.

[nn30]

Much defense.

So wow.

[nn30]

How, exactly, do you have a town read on Cheesy?

[nn30]

Somebody who is town reading Cheese - tell me why

[nn30]

Somebody who is town reading Cheese - tell me why

TB's push is horrible

How does this have anything to do with Cheese?

[nn30]

@Gamma - okay, so, for you to town read cheesy, because of TB's push, Cheesy and Jester have to be the same person - because TB says in 248 that the behavior of Jester is similar to another town game.

Is that a thing?

[nn30]

Somebody who is town reading Cheese - tell me why

TB's push is horrible

How does this have anything to do with Cheese?

Its a question of whether he is distancing or not.

In that case, pre-flip associative. Discount that.

I want to know why Cheesy is town or scum based on what Cheesy has done this game. I don't care about TB right now.

[nn30]

Read cheesy, I'm pretty positive that's a town slot. Reading Realeo next, because anyone who townreads me when I've made like 2 posts is usually scum.

Realeo has claimed that he made that read list to get reactions.

Why is Cheesy town?

[nn30]

Bah humbug.

I guess everytime I ask a question about Cheesy nobody sees it.

[nn30]

Anyone want to vote nn30 with me?

Pass.

Also, why are you asking permission...?

[nn30]

Which tell?

[nn30]

Fair enough

[nn30]

VOTE: Real/Real's replacement

That exchange read like scum flail.

I don't think Vedith is scum there.

[nn30]

Also we should have a conversation about realeo since his slot seems to be in the hot seat. Would scum really replace out like he did? He surely would know that his actions would be scrutinized by everyone by replacing out. Or should we take his replace out at face value (that his emotionsm bias against vedith's slot)? Just wondering here, since we're waiting on multiple replacements here.

Ugh.

Replace out WIFOM.

So, I just finished a game where a town replaced out for real and a scum came 99% of the way to replacing out before calming down and coming back. So, I think to could happen from either alignment. I'm having trouble reading anything Real did leading up to replacing out as town, however. I think that's the more important discussion to have.

[nn30]

Also we should have a conversation about realeo since his slot seems to be in the hot seat. Would scum really replace out like he did?

This is why I think they're not scum together. Even for the most distancing scum team, it is unlikely they would both replace out. One of them is town and the other is most likely scum.

They're 100% not teammates due to the double replace.

Let's talk about something worthy.

I'd like to lynch Realo because 1) I scum read him before the replace out and 2) we get a pseudo conf town out of the flip if he flips red.

p-edit - I thought he said the argument could be TvT or TvS?

[nn30]

@Arona - ahh yes, he discounts this.

@TB - why do you discount the TvT in your recent post?

Realeo has played with Vedith before, but doesn't understand that Vedith was joking during RVS? Unlikely.
651 and 668 didn't sit well with me to begin with. In the space of a page, he goes from "he's scum!" to "he's town!" Didn't sit well with me, though it

could

be coming from town, this wasn't my initial impression.

[nn30]

@TB - can you point to posts that felt like distancing scum buddies?

[nn30]

Why don't they sit well with you?

[nn30]

My read on Cheese has switched to town.

I'm still waiting on an answer to my question to TB. Hope he comes back soon.

[nn30]

If it's TvT or TvS either determine scum or f*** the argument and move onto something more productive.

I'm going to move my vote onto someone who I feel is spouting bs.
VOTE: Realeo

This feels bad.

Fuck the conversation, but I'm going to vote one of the subjects of the conversation?

[nn30]

Welcome titus and vax!

This game is a shitpost slog. Good luck reading it.

Thoughts on TB, nn30 and cheesy?

Post a non-shit post then!

[nn30]

Well we would hope you do...

Also

Hi Titus!

[nn30]

Well we would hope you do...

Also

Hi Titus!

Nah. We don't. Who wants to relive toxic crap?

Well, mostly people reading the game in order to discern alignments. So, town.

[nn30]

???

I'm not getting that one Cheesy.

[nn30]

@Titus - how do you scum hunt w/o reading the game?

[nn30]

For now I'm willing to believe Vedith v reeleo was TvT.

I've never seen Vedith replace out, but I'm sure its happened before. I feel its pretty unlikely his slot is scum. While reeleo COULD be scum, I really think its more than likely town.

I think we have scum in nn30 and/or toejam for the opportunistic as hell votes for no reason, and we need to be voting them right now.

They're 100% not teammates due to the double replace.

Let's talk about something worthy.

I'd like to lynch Realo because 1) I scum read him before the replace out and 2) we get a pseudo conf town out of the flip if he flips red.

They're 100% not teammates due to opportunistic vote when being replaced.

Let's talk about something worthy.

I'd like to lynch nn30 because 1) I scum read him before I even knew this game existed 2) we get a pseudo conf town out of the flip if he flips red.



I would be happy voting nn30 as well. Lynching one of them gives even more info. If one flips scum, reeleo slot is town, and the other one is likely scum too!

This is also a bad use if pre-flips. nn30 could be scum bussing his partner.

There's exactly 0 reason for me to be bussing right there.

[nn30]

Prodge.

Busy night.

[nn30]

Titus, Realeo is almost confirmed scum, please comment on that

The fuck snarky is in this game?

For a while now, yeah.

I find this fishy of Culted honestly.

What makes this fishy for you?

[nn30]

Saw that after posting. Thanks.

I don't find it fishy. I missed Snarky too for a while...

I don't feel like we're getting very far right now.

My town list:

LQ - Early game interactions with me + general behavior.
Cheesy - I came around. Still gut and I wish he'd hunt more but *shrug*
Vedith/Titus - Primarily for the sub out. I don't think scum actually subs out in this scenario. Ftr I don't like Titus' play since subbing in but the sub out is strong enough in my mind that this slot is still townie

Everyone else is just a blur. We've done nothing but shit post this game and it's not helping me get any reads.

VOTE: Arona

In 100 words or less, why are you town Arona?

[nn30]

Earlier in the game you town read someone, and then took that town read away due to what you thought was an overwillingness to accept your town read. Now you town read me off a question, and when I question your town read you say you may be wrong?

Good observation.

[nn30]

I am not town reading Cheesy/Realo(Realo's replacement?) and Vedith/Vedith's replacement) as well as Gamma.

Light town read on Arona too.

I love having 10 pages to work with - it gives me a chance at a birds eye view of the game (similar to replacing in but not exact).

I think LQ is scum.

VOTE: LQ

No recent VC so I have no idea where that puts him (I saw L-2 earlier? So I'm assuming it's not hammer).

[nn30]

Now*

Not not.

Sorry.

[nn30]

You guys are goddamned prolific.

I don't have the time to re-read 30 pages and over analyze anything (I've been skimming as things happen however).

I like Fish, Cheesy, Titus, and Gamma for town.

Tojam and Arona are more iffy IMO.

Fish is basically god status as far as I'm concerned. I'll sheep whatever he wants me to since I don't have the time to put into this that he does.

[nn30]

Then why are you not voting LQ?

Because I didn't know where his vote was.

VOTE: LQ

FTR - I scum read this slot yesterday (about 2309230 pages ago).

So yeah.

[nn30]

Then why are you not voting LQ?

Because I didn't know where his vote was.

VOTE: LQ

FTR - I scum read this slot yesterday (about 2309230 pages ago).

So yeah.

As far as I was aware, you town read me for taking the Town read away from you for when I assumed you were just accepting the Town read by me on you. Now I think there is a chance that you were BSing when I took the Town read away and that you were just trying to cover your ass.

Here is the post:

And I can town read you for taking away my town read for not questioning your town read on me.

*whew*

In all seriousness, the 'that's a start' was more of a 'great, what do you think of the actual post' than 'SWEET I'M GETTING TOWN READ.'

I can see how you interpreted this post the other way, though. My initial thought was just that - not to trust you throwing me a town-read. You just modded a game with me in it and could see that I tend to care about whether or not I'm getting town read and could use that against me in this game.

But I honestly don't know how to read this:

Somebody who is town reading Cheese - tell me why

TB's push is horrible

How does this have anything to do with Cheese?

Its a question of whether he is distancing or not.

In that case, pre-flip associative. Discount that.

I want to know why Cheesy is town or scum based on what Cheesy has done this game. I don't care about TB right now.

You're right. I was town reading you for that.

That read changed.

[nn30]

*ignores the thread*

VOTE: nn30

P-edit: I assume that since I said 'I don't want to talk about TB right now' you're interpreting it as a soft defense of a scum buddy. It wasn't.

Also, you put some quotes together which don't belong together at the end of your post. Tacking on 1615 and 1608 is really misleading since they were never meant to respond to the above quotes you included.

[nn30]

NN, I was confused by that. Are you saying that because you didn't direct a quote to Lickety that he shouldnt respond to it?

To anyone that isn't me, the fact that they weren't separated in the original comment suggests that they were connected comments when in fact they were not.

[nn30]

*ignores the thread*

VOTE: nn30

P-edit: I assume that since I said 'I don't want to talk about TB right now' you're interpreting it as a soft defense of a scum buddy. It wasn't.

Why not?

Also, you put some quotes together which don't belong together at the end of your post. Tacking on 1615 and 1608 is really misleading since they were never meant to respond to the above quotes you included.

Bro, I quote people more often than I don't. Deal.

And answer what I asked you as well, you're dodging.

I'm not dodging.

I was not soft defending TB. I actually just didn't want to talk about him because I wanted to focus elsewhere. This can easily come from a townie.

If you're going to scum read me, you're going to need more than OMGUS and a cherry picked behavior of mine, scumboi.

[nn30]

Wehlp. That backfired.

All right Formerfish, why are you scum reading me? I trust your views on the game but not enough to self vote.

P-edit yarp

[nn30]

MOAR votes on nn30!

Don't do this.

I'm town.

Assuming we can trust Titus (I do) and you're town (I think you are since I trust Titus) you need to de-OMGUS me and consider me possibly still town.

I think your reasons for scum reading me were weak. You're looking for a gotcha moment and, while you may have found one in my 'soft defense' of TB, such a single instance isn't good enough.

I genuinely didn't like your posting yesterday. It felt scum motivated.

*shrug*

UNVOTE:

[nn30]

LQ, why the change in tone and behavior?

LQ, why the change in tone and behavior?

Because it turns out I do have some confidence after all.

????

Both nn30 and TB both questioning me here. At this point in the game these two have not interacted at all with each other.

I didn't interact with many people this game.

I was in 5 games at the time and this is one I wasn't super interested in.

I'm now actively in 2 games - so my time has freed up.

[nn30]

CONFIRMED BITCHES!!!!

That means I have one game day to either solve this game or do as much damage to Scum as possible.

I think it is nn30/toejam, but I want the information to be sure.

We know vig is the second PR. So the non vig PR should out today, to stop dumb vig shots and to only shoot within the pool.

The one instance I have of playing with you (when I was scum) your reads were why we won the game Titus. You got townies lynched for us.

You may be right about Toejam, but you aren't correct about me.

[nn30]

Had a really busy Friday / Saturday. Posting in a few hours

*Cough*

Read cheesy, I'm pretty positive that's a town slot. Reading Realeo next, because anyone who townreads me when I've made like 2 posts is usually scum.

Realeo has claimed that he made that read list to get reactions.

Why is Cheesy town?

Once again we see these two questioning the same person without interacting with each other.

Why would you do the same thing you scum partner does? I was under the impression that people tend to avoid what their partner does. Not reinforce it.

This makes no sense as the basis of a scum read.

[nn30]

Earlier in the game you town read someone, and then took that town read away due to what you thought was an overwillingness to accept your town read. Now you town read me off a question, and when I question your town read you say you may be wrong?

Good observation.

I am not town reading Cheesy/Realo(Realo's replacement?) and Vedith/Vedith's replacement) as well as Gamma.

Light town read on Arona too.

I love having 10 pages to work with - it gives me a chance at a birds eye view of the game (similar to replacing in but not exact).

I think LQ is scum.

VOTE: LQ

No recent VC so I have no idea where that puts him (I saw L-2 earlier? So I'm assuming it's not hammer).

Now*

Not not.

Sorry.

These are the last 3 posts from nn30 from last game day. After that he goes dead silent.

The last 7 days have been the busiest of the last 6 months. I've been planning a small seasonal small business idea and this last week is high season for me. Don't scum read me for having things to do IRL.

[nn30]

I was feeling eh on culted all of day 1 but I like the last posts he made that day. Seems very genuine in his skepticism and there's a logical progression from their reread (Post 1243) to them voting TB. I was entertaining the idea of TB voting culted early on in the game to distance themselves from their partner but looking at LQ's recent posts on that I think culted's reaction (to hound TB on it) makes me lean town on him.

I do want to know what their vote is doing on me because it came out of left field sorta (I'll say more in my next post).

I'm still 100% down with tojam unless his soft claim is genuine.

I also have no problem shamelessly sheeping titus and lickety right now.

VOTE: nn30

I think that's L-2

Arona put a lot more thought into his town game when I was scum. I'm not liking Arona rn.

[nn30]

LOL they sheeped onto me as town in that game in an identical way.

As it stands, I'm still suspicious of titus. But I agree with shaddowez/algebra about nn30 so I'm fine with joining this wagon and seeing where this goes.

VOTE: nn30

I dunno who's scum in this game.

All I know is that I'm town. Lynching me is undeniably bad. Give me reasons why you scum read me and I'll refute them to the best of my ability.

[nn30]

Newbie 1741.

[nn30]

LOL they sheeped onto me as town in that game in an identical way.

As it stands, I'm still suspicious of titus. But I agree with shaddowez/algebra about nn30 so I'm fine with joining this wagon and seeing where this goes.

VOTE: nn30

I dunno who's scum in this game.

All I know is that I'm town. Lynching me is undeniably bad. Give me reasons why you scum read me and I'll refute them to the best of my ability.

K, you don't know who is Scum?

Who is Town?

You Titus Fish Cheese Gamma.

[nn30]

Newbie 1741.

I said quotes, not games.

I did provide a quote. It's on the previous page. I was responding to GE when I said Newbie 1741.

[nn30]

@nn30

Am I not thinking as much or saying as much? There's a difference.

Also, how is that quote you gave showing me sheeping in an "identical way"?

They both basically say 'yeah I'm sheeping' followed by a vote.

Though the version in this game is a bit more verbose. Could be scummy.