Mini Normal 1861: Musical Mafia (TOWN WIN)

[Secret Agent Jin]

I dont think one clears the other in this situation MDS, you both are independent of each other.

[MiniDeathStar]

That's exactly my point.

[massive]

I actually think that I'm fine with MDS trying to push this wagon and with Jin in the scumspot of the wagon.

[Aj The Epic]

Can you quote 99 and, specifically, what is exemplary of your point above?

Yea with relooking at 99 you don't seem to be pushing cloud.
Can I ask your motivation behind post 99 then and what your purpose was of discrediting cloud's townslip beforehand?
And also clarify what you meant by 'stick up for' kairal? Cuz in my mind kairal's trajectory on cloud the first few pages looks pretty transparent, calls out something he thinks is a slip, argues it until the realization that they're probably wrong kicks in and they move on.

Like, why do you think cloud should be taking issue with that?

Psst, guys, jin doesn't want to address the pressure on him until there's an 'actual wagon'.

Who's down to figure out how many votes jin thinks a wagon is?

It sounded more to me like he didn't see any pressure, or at the very least, didn't want us to think he saw pressure.

And he'd be completely correct in not seeing any pressure, as there wasn't any.

A vote doesn't need a paragraph of word vomit beneath it to create pressure.

What are your scumreads, AJ?

Well... it was going to be Grey, Io and Hungry/Happy whatever their name is but then the last five pages happened.

Uh gotta say I like what Grey did though. I was thinking the "same alignment modconfirmed CK/MDS" thing had a lot of flaws, but the context of it being a bait does more than redeem it. No way a mod blatantly tells another town player they're voting a town player as the reason for their replace out. I think massive kinda gave himself away.

Ergo I think the only proper assumption is massive to have been duped. I was about to say Jin's vote felt contrived but I think he missed the entire point of what Grey did.

What I can say is CK (and replacement), MDS do look town given prior actions. Culted does as well. I feel Jin is a bit oblivious but probably oblivious without any malicious intention. Whoever replaced Kai is town too. I think I'm willing to view Grey as town as since his early vote, nothing he's done has had any other motive.

given that

unvote

Happy/Hungry, Massive and Io then would be the three scummiest.

Hungry... Is the least convincing of those for scum, as it was more his AtE post made me look sideways. I haven't really looked into his posts much this game though, so it's really not fair to act as if he's on the same level as massive/ Io are for me.

What's massive's wagon count at?

[Aj The Epic]

Wait, Elhabe2 got replaced, Kairal is still here. Kai is still the one I view as basic conf town tho.

[Aj The Epic]

And 'hungry/happy' is actually 'hellooo' for HelloNewman....

His post 79 is fine, calling CK out for congratulating himself on a townslip is all well and good. The only issue is HelloNewman never actually interacts with anyone outside of CK and tunnels a bit that he's scum long after most of us have him as town. I don't mind contradictory viewpoints, but with an unpopular view comes a burden of proof, and I don't think Newman attempts that at all in his post. His reasoning CK is scum doesn't change at all (propped himself up on a townslip) even though he challenges CK multiple times through different wordings for the same thing. As I've said, I feel CK's play there was anti-town (aka looking at himself instead of others) but still NAI. Newman should've been tasked at building a case to actually make something happen rather than just stating he didn't like CK. At that point in time, nothing was happening with CK as a wagon so he either needed to drop it and refocus or force a real reason behind it.

So that's what I've got on Newman for the 4 posts so far.

[MiniDeathStar]

Aj the Rubic, why are you scumreading Io btw? I looked through your posts but you never actually mentioned that until now.

[Flubbernugget]

I'm "caught up" in that I've technically read it all but my brain is too fried rn for me to say I processed it.

[Flubbernugget]

Fwiw I do think omega slipped but I'm not 100% we will have an accurate interpretation of how. I do think it is ethical to use his posts for reads but don't think it is worthwhile

[Aj The Epic]

Aj the Rubic, why are you scumreading Io btw? I looked through your posts but you never actually mentioned that until now.

Some of it is OMGUS at face value but the unexplained vote on me wasn't good, especially considering she had explained her position on other wagons far more clearly. Dierfire more or less explained it earlier, but it was a vote that made no sense given the post she made it in had other stronger scumreads.

[MiniDeathStar]

She's the one I'm actually most worried about, because while she *does* look somewhat scummy and anti-town (like choosing to argue definitions for pages instead of talking about the game, staying under the radar), I have the feeling she's one of those players who read super similar as either alignment and can easily confuse town later in the game.

It's also going to be extremely difficult to build an actual case on her. I suggest whatever cops exist in the game point their radar guns there.

[massive]

Directing power roles, SAUCY

[Kairal]

Well tbh I was always planning on voting cloud. I just wanted to fish around for a bit more info on everyone else before getting to it. Yes the die thing was stupid but everything else he posted looked scummy as hell to me. I kind of had a gut feeling that maybe he was too obvious to be scum, but bad players can be scum too.

Anyway now that Cloud's gone it hardly seems fair to lynch Shadow for it. I'd like to see Newman's thoughts on other players. I guess Aj or Massive seem to be the two we're talking about now...

I understand Massive's vote on me and it makes sense. If anyone still wants to discuss it I can explain but it's kind of a complicated situation without much pay off so I'd rather not bother.

I don't understand his vote on AJ - he never provided a reason as far as I can see. His reasoning for voting Mini is also pretty wacky. You'd be a lot easier to trust if you just explained where you were coming from you know that?

Mini seems pretty town to me this game. She's playing about the same as she did in her last town game. She also provides clear explanations for who she's voting for at any time and it makes sense even if I don't always agree. It's possible I'm biased since she's the only one I've played with before I guess. I don't think so though.

[Kairal]

@Flubber. I see you weren't actually suspecting Cloud. I inferred something in your posts which wasn't actually there then I guess.

[massive]

No way a mod blatantly tells another town player they're voting a town player as the reason for their replace out.

So you're not entertaining the fact that they could be scum together?

What's massive's wagon count at?

Oh there's plenty of room for you, but thanks for at least trying to appear town before sheeping MDS. You know she said not to, right?

[massive]

You'd be a lot easier to trust if you just explained where you were coming from you know that?

I'm gonna blow your mind here. If I don't explain blank votes, I never deceive you. WHOA MIND BLOWN

[Aj The Epic]

I'm not entertaining it because my reads aren't bad.

[massive]

Saying that implies you think mine are. So are my reads bad or are they fabricated?

[MiniDeathStar]

Directing power roles, SAUCY

[Kairal]

You'd be a lot easier to trust if you just explained where you were coming from you know that?

I'm gonna blow your mind here. If I don't explain blank votes, I never deceive you. WHOA MIND BLOWN

I laughed. I'm still gonna vote you though since I feel unexplained votes are anti-town and you seem committed to not explaining them.

VOTE: massive

[Aj The Epic]

Saying that implies you think mine are. So are my reads bad or are they fabricated?

That's not mutually exclusive. Ftr, both.

[Kairal]

Incidentally as far as Gamma goes, as far as I'm concerned rule 0 is in effect. Rule 0 is: the gamerunner is always right. if you have a problem with their ruling bring it up after the game. Gamma says the replacement isn't AI then it's not AI. If it were Gamma could always have restarted the game or whatever.

[MiniDeathStar]

Oh, I totally missed that mafsive brought up my sheeping argument again. Let me reiterate for the last time: please think for yourselves and carefully consider every argument and explanation that you agree with. Agreeing is not bad, agreeing without thinking is.

[MiniDeathStar]

You know, in case the mafia try to make you believe I'm totally against people voting the same targets as I.

That said, I think I should sleep now. Night everyone. ♥

[massive]

Remind me in post game that if I am the first lynch that I will bow down to your scum powers of mind manipulation.