Mini Normal 1857 (Game Over - Mafia Wins!)

[Impoetic]

OMG SCUM ^^^^^

It's always the lurkers.

You got us, I'm his partner

hi everyone i would like to announce that I was literally reminded of this game on skype and still forgot to check MS when day started. i'm good

[Impoetic]

at being bad, that is

[Impoetic]

VOTE: rb

[Impoetic]

VOTE: rb

what is this vote...? explain?

a joke

i'm not caught up yet

[Impoetic]

Actually I forgot why I was scumreading ssbm.

VOTE: TTTTT

Naked vote entrance, insists Drone explains stuff when all he's done is naked vote.

also this post was odd in the face of the wagon; if i had to pin down why, i'd say it was 'cause it seems like he's trying too hard to seem like he doesn't care

but he also might really just not care, and i'm not sure how everyone has real reads already at page like, 3, so "joke vote" is an equally accurate explanation. it was a combination

[Impoetic]

on second thought i change my mind on that post

UNVOTE:

predit: joke votes from someone who just entered when people were discussing naked vote validity -- how is that alignment-indicative, in either direction?

[Impoetic]

also lol @ "this far in the game"

it's page 7, dude.

mildly antitown? maybe, but scummy? you'll have to enlighten me

in the meantime i'll be catching up but i'm not convinced it'll change the fact that everyone's null and scumhunting is hard

[Impoetic]

if i stated it it would ruin the joke

i checked the vote log and figured L-2 wasn't so bad, but that may have been stupid of me

[Impoetic]

Let me rephrase: this is antitown because I am town risking letting people pile on a vote 7 pages in that most likely wouldn't flip scum, and then getting fosed for it, leading to potentially burning out multiple MLs due to my incompetence if it had happened.

If I were mafia, I'd be risking trading myself for a quicklynch d1, the day I imagine it's

least

suboptimal to quicklynch because flips help town and i heard scum rarely gets lynched d1 in forum mafia anyway. What's the scum thought process in doing that intentionally?

I can only imagine your argument is that I don't care who is lynched therefore I'm scum, but to that I'd point out that scum's first goal in the game -- or one of them, anyway -- is to look like they care who is lynched.

[Impoetic]

I've seen town quickhammer before too though. again, antitown is not scum, even if it should be

how did lil uzi vert try to impede the game? i don't understand you =(

[Impoetic]

the "i heard scum rarely gets lynched d1 in forum mafia" line feels really off. You coming in and voting someone to L-2 without explanation, and then unvoting the second someone puts their fos on you, and then poorly defending yourself all feels very off. You stating what scum's goals are feels EXTREMELY off. Your prior post did have some good points, but you're still looking more suspicious than rb.

VOTE: Impoetic

Pedit: A lot of rb's wagon was jokevote/rvs shit, and I know I'd feel uncomfortable with a lynching under that. Don't think rb cares at all though.

Pedit2: Also, "impede the game"? What impeding has he done, other than questioning other people? He's my only townread so far.

i unvoted because my vote WAS a joke

read the post above it. They were talking about naked voting, so i naked voted. it seemed funny to me at the time

I defend myself when i get fosed. I'm impatient, and i'm not going to wait until people just naturally TR me for them to unvote if i think i can defend myself (as in, I said what came to mind, and i'm sure some of it was off, but so was the idea that what I did made me mafia)

I stated why scum's mindset wouldn't line up with what Kohai said was scummy. How is that off? Is town supposed to be incapable of trying to figure out what mafia is likely to be thinking at a certain point?

[Impoetic]

Let me rephrase: this is antitown because I am town risking letting people pile on a vote 7 pages in that most likely wouldn't flip scum, and then getting fosed for it, leading to potentially burning out multiple MLs due to my incompetence if it had happened.

If I were mafia, I'd be risking trading myself for a quicklynch d1, the day I imagine it's

least

suboptimal to quicklynch because flips help town and i heard scum rarely gets lynched d1 in forum mafia anyway. What's the scum thought process in doing that intentionally?

I can only imagine your argument is that I don't care who is lynched therefore I'm scum, but to that I'd point out that scum's first goal in the game -- or one of them, anyway -- is to look like they care who is lynched.

This feels contrived and feels like really bad WIFOM.

Thanks, it's bad wifom because it's not wifom

If it were contrived i'd be trying harder to make it clear and easy-to-follow rather than jumbled like it probably was (haven't read it, so idk). I'm trying to explain to you why a joke vote isn't scummy, even if it is out of place, which I don't feel it was, this being page 5.

You haven't answered me. Why do you think i did it as scum?

[Impoetic]

voting to kill someone is no joke

i STILL think it was funny

[Impoetic]

impoetic - would you agree it was very anti-town to cast a vote that you didn't believe in at this stage in the game?

i said it was somewhat antitown

i didn't think it was that bad, no. i might be underestimating the likelihood of 2 votes piling on while i'm catching up; i was going to unvote soon no matter what, and i didn't think it hurt anything. I was honestly hoping the rb or TTTTT would be there to react, but they weren't

*mumbling* i bet

they

wouldn't have pushed me over it

predit: no, that's not what i'm literally saying

i'm explaining why it's not scummy and was trying to explain that if i WERE scum, it wouldn't be antitown, because if he really got lynched, i'd be next, and a 1v1 trade isn't worth it

nice one-liners and strawmen, can you please answer my question and actually address me instead of talking to everyone else

[Impoetic]

so you're the type of person to go up to a stranger, punch them in the face, and think it's funny / walk away laughing?

in a video game? Yeah

[Impoetic]

I'm getting off work in 5 hours. I'll make my cases then. For now, FOS on:

1. Impoetic
2. Dreal
3. RB

I'm fairly confident at least one of these is scum. I will further make my case when I get off.

Impoetic Is literally saying that she wouldn't do X as scum because it is obv anti town, yet she does X anyway; therefore she isn't scum. Yeah, I'm fairly convinced Impoetic is scum.

so in the space of one post, you went from saying there was 1 scum in 3 people to

completely ignoring me

whilst addressing the rest of the table and saying you're convinced I'm scum

all without seriously responding to anything I've said and only saying that my attempt at actual productive discussion over it is "bad wifom and contrived"

and you certainly aren't attempting to see what i'm saying for what it is. I'm not saying i'm town, i'm saying you voted me for being antitown -- something town does sometimes -- and I want to know why you think that makes me scum.

It's not like I malignantly quickhammered. I joke-voted. I'm telling you there isn't scum motivation in joke-voting, and it's only bad for town because the culprit is town in the first place; if I were mafia, I'd be giving town the rope with which to hang me for... what? A tiny chance to get one townie lynched early in d1... which would require two townies messing up and doing the same thing you're saying i'm scum for?

[Impoetic]

TTTT is probably town for staying on it actually

TTTTT wasn't here though. Walk me through your thought process in slightly smaller baby steps?

predit: drealmerz i do not understand the argument

[Impoetic]

It's not like I malignantly quickhammered. I joke-voted. I'm telling you there isn't scum motivation in joke-voting, and it's only bad for town because the culprit is town in the first place; if I were mafia, I'd be giving town the rope with which to hang me for... what? A tiny chance to get one townie lynched early in d1... which would require two townies messing up and doing the same thing you're saying i'm scum for?

How do u know im townie though?

you're most likely town because statistically most people are town in the game, and the argument against me is assuming you're town so there's no point in considering the other scenario

[Impoetic]

TTTT is probably town for staying on it actually

TTTTT wasn't here though. Walk me through your thought process in slightly smaller baby steps?

predit: drealmerz i do not understand the argument

yes he was, he just posted after the wagon dissipated and stayed on it

it had 4 votes on it when he last posted, didn't it?

even if it had more before, or if he posted since you said, I'm not sure i'm sold on that making him town. Firstly, I know this is sort of something i was just talking about and makes less sense when written out than it does in my head, but... scum has a brain too, and being too nervous to get off a wagon the moment it starts heading downhill seems more than plausible. I guess I should reread before trying to understand your thought process here though. I got sidetracked by the votes on me....

predit: stop posting so fast ;-;

[Impoetic]

you're most likely town because statistically most people are town in the game, and the argument against me is assuming you're town so there's no point in considering the other scenario

Are you seriously town reading someone because statistically they are more likely to be town? Wtf?

Are you seriously saying you're misunderstanding every one of my posts this badly on purpose?


REad what i said. Read it. I said very clearly that STATISTICALLY, EVERYONE IS MOST LIKELY TOWN, and FOR THE PURPOSE OF THE HYPOTHETICAL, I was referring to a world in which RB is town, because that's the relevant scenario there, when RB asked me why I was assuming they were town when I was defending myself for joke-voting them.

[Impoetic]

[quote=impoetic]
Are you seriously saying you're misunderstanding every one of my posts this badly by accident?[/quote]
EBWOP

[Impoetic]

VOTE: Impoetic


TTTT is town but avatar is disturbing

rb is also still scummy

And last but not least- drealmerz is a mislynch

Aite cya

Haha no i'm pretty sure you can read me in forum mafia

why are you jumping on a mislynch when the person being voted is trying to contribute and the person doing the voting is half-assedly misconstruing every single thing I say and talking like I'm confscum when he's barely read me and I haven't had time to be conf-anything

you're better than this

[Impoetic]

Are you seriously saying you're misunderstanding every one of my posts this badly by accident?

EBWOP

EBWOP

[Impoetic]

I'm getting off work in 5 hours. I'll make my cases then. For now, FOS on:

1. Impoetic
2. Dreal
3. RB

I'm fairly confident at least one of these is scum. I will further make my case when I get off.

Impoetic Is literally saying that she wouldn't do X as scum because it is obv anti town, yet she does X anyway; therefore she isn't scum. Yeah, I'm fairly convinced Impoetic is scum.

so in the space of one post, you went from saying there was 1 scum in 3 people to

completely ignoring me

whilst addressing the rest of the table and saying you're convinced I'm scum

What a blatant misrepresentation! And no, I'm not completely ignoring you.

I was giving my top SRs right now. And you're at the top.

you were there, and i've said many times that I wanted to actually discuss it with you, which you've been ignoring as far as i can tell

i don't feel like reiterating myself anymore but you can see that i've asked for responses if you actually read my posts, which i feel like you are not.

You listed 3 names and said at least one was scum. I assumed that meant you were still considering and understood that any individual one of those wasn't

necessarily

scum, but then in the next post you stopped addressing me despite having still not fully engaged me like I keep asking since, you know, that's what you do with people when you're trying to sort them before writing them off and saying you're confident they're mafia.

If you really think you don't have to engage me to know my alignment and that i'm definitely scum, you're the one being antitown.

i didn't mean to misrep you.

[Impoetic]

Like, you said I was scum for leaving someone at L-2 in a joke vote on page 7. Then I responded with a long paragraph trying to explain that antitown and scum are two separate, if related, things, and that my vote in particular was not all that antitown and that if i had been scum, it would be just as anti-scum as it was antitown the way things are, ergo in my opinion, it should not be AI. You said that was "bad wifom and contrived" which is annoyingly vague and tells me that you most likely weren't really trying to consider what i was saying, whatever your alignment. You then completely changed the nature of my statements and went on to say you were fairly confident I was scum, even though I was asking you to engage me about it the whole time

That already seems more antitown than the thing i did, to me.

[Impoetic]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. My bad, sorry.

Sorry for all the text-walls and painful run-on sentences, then. It's a bad habit.

[Impoetic]

can we lynch LUV now?

omg

I said this already but i don't understand your argument.

[Impoetic]

oh god i'm actually getting wagoned d1 jesus

i'm town, i was defensive because i didn't like the explanation for the fos on me, i wouldn't be defensive as scum, scum is the only thing i do well

[Impoetic]

i know that's wifomy but jesus christ it's fucking suboptimal for scum to spaz out and respond wiht walls upon walls of text to a single joke that would normally just fade with time (it's page 7) unless they're doing it for town cred and i mean since i spent walls and walls letting myself get BWed before bringing this up to cash in for towncred... just stop speedlynching me i just saw like 3 votes

[Impoetic]

this vote has had resistance from exactly one person, and the justification from everyone has been

I'm defensive

and

I jokevoted

the jokevoting justification is absolutely stupid and i've gone over that extensively

the "defensive" reasoning is about me going over it extensively, which is pro-town and generates content. Argument is good, isn't it? I can't go into any more detail because people can just chalk up anything i say in defense of myself to wifom

it's infuriating

i cannot believe i'm getting wagoned. i guess that's what i get for spazzing out there

I don't know why people TR drone or SR

actually i'm getting very few of the reads here. I tr Roxy but that may be bias because they're the only person i can understand at all this game

maybe rabbit but his last few posts sent him back to null

predit:

oh good someone else who isn't jumping on that stupid bw

shannon -- I typed walls of text as town because I had things to say. I'm not going to hold back what i want to say as town because I risk SRs, because I usually figure as town that justice will prevail in the end, and if people push on me, that gives more reads. I'm not used to being MLed

[Impoetic]

like

ok

maybe i would ever do it as scum, for wifom

but that'd be because I also do it as town. If I get voted and I don't think it's reasonable, I will respond with why it's unreasonable, and expect the voter to engage me so i can try to figure out whether they're pushing a mislynch as scum or genuinely just mistaken town

predit: the only player i know is transcend and i'm pretty bad at reading him as far as I know. I'll get back to you on that. If I knew a LOT of them, it'd be cause for concern on your part, wouldn't it? Like, if all the people who could meta me were wagoning me...

predit2: the "I'd do this as scum" was fine but then the "town points for the first person to give reasons for scumreading me" slightly leaned scum. Also i feel kind of pocketed right now but that's just me being paranoid. I don't think it's implausible that you're town but I mean, if you are, I don't think you'd lie, and it means you think people should potentially scumread you at this point; if you're scum, that means something else.

[Impoetic]

I wanna say kohai because his push was bad but I think that's probably not the smartest logic to use and he hasn't gotten back from work yet

Shannon hasn't stuck out to me so far, which is a -

through my tinted lens at the moment a lot of the votes look scummy. As in, too many to really be scummy. so...

[Impoetic]

"town points for the first person to give reasons for scumreading me"

i hope you can see how this can result in a pro-town interaction if somebody decides to take me up regardless of our alignments

didn't dawn on me that this was what was going on in your mind until now

predit: off tone I thought shannon was townier than some of the others, maybe kohai too, but that was it. It's really late for me at the moment. I know i need to start scumhunting but it's hard for me to focus/i've never been good at it/I haven't had time to give it a thorough look

i'm gonna be embarrassed later when 1 of those is the only scum on my wagon and transcend's town lol

[Impoetic]

i mean I thought Toshino Kyoko was town earlier so I guess that's one.

The more I think about it without looking back the more I think it's Transcend, but I don't think it's really reliable for me to think about things without looking back. My memory's atrocious.

predit: why?

[Impoetic]

that the scum is transcend* not the town. but the last time I SRed transcend he was scum and the last time I TRed him he was town :\

[Impoetic]

No, I'm not. I'm an OK scum player sometimes, but that's it.

I just wanted to know why, because that level of confidence surprised me.

[Impoetic]

that the scum is transcend* not the town. but the last time I SRed transcend he was scum and the last time I TRed him he was town :\

you can't read me worth a damn

you waffle your read on me every single time

watch it be wrong tho

i know! that's what i said =(

but you think i'm scum this time, allegedly, so it wouldn't be a botched read -- it would be scum pushing a ML.

[Impoetic]

Err, not pushing a mislynch, but... whatever. Scum faking reads, not town fucking them up

unless i misunderstand the definition of waffling or something

[Impoetic]

I know I was told to stop defending myself and that's reasonable advice at this point but there's one thing i need to point out before I go to bed.

The fact that you've posted about *knowing* how it looks shows that you could have intended it for WIFOM purposes, like too obv scum to be scum.

No, wifom like that doesn't work. Everyone's aware of wifom and will consider the possibility, and i've made it pretty easy for people to say i'm wifoming -- and they have. You can do it to play to your town meta, maybe, but that just makes you null. I mean, you can't take my word for this part. This is wifomy too. But I'm not asking you to say I'm conftown; I'm telling you to stop scumreading me for it.

If i did it as scum for wifom purposes, that means I was aware I was being defensive. If you're arguing that line of thought, it should mean that you've mentally conceded that yes, I COULD do this as town. I.e. either I'm lying about being aware that defensiveness and walls of text are more likely to be scumread than townread or it's not something to scumread me for and you can just say it's NAI.

[Impoetic]

Like yes, I could be scum. I've never said I couldn't be scum here, and you can ISO me and see that. I don't ask to be cleared over subjective stuff. But so could anyone else; this is a game where everyone and everything can be scum at the start. That's kind of the premise. So if there's a situation where i'm town, and there's no reason to think the situation where I'm scum is more likely, then what sense does it make to scumread me over everyone else?

I know I'm being a derptown and that's why I'm actually at risk of getting MLed here, and I know I should be scumhunting and not continuing to pitch a fit over a tiny little wagon early on in d1.

It's just my style to be bad, tbh -- but also the fact that my terrible communication skills are frustrating me and making me want to keep trying to reword everything and not move on from the topic.

OK, done spamming this time. really.

[Impoetic]

Fuck you spammers I don't want to read this garbage Lynch drone he's spamming this thread up why the fuck is there 18 pages?!?!

This guy is writing fucking nonsense and transcend is handing out town reads like hot cakes. He prob town reads Hitler too

VOTE: drone

Drone wasn't one of the spammers though! It was like, me/drealmerz/transcend/etc. depending on your definition, iirc

sorry about that

some other people too

also I hated transcend flipping right after fluffyrabbit said to get off me but whatever, I don't think i can read him

let me catch up and try not to start spamming again immediately afterwards

[Impoetic]

I'm really sorry for the overreaction. Originally i thought it would be fine because discussion helps get reads and stuff, but I think I dwelt on defending myself too long and didn't try hard enough to actually make myself clear despite knowing i was typing in a way that was easy to misconstrue, and it wasn't only suboptimal, it was annoying and unfun

[Impoetic]

Probably too simple to be a scumtell from transcend

we'll see who else did it though, I remember at least one person did

[Impoetic]

Elaborating defeats the purpose of reading between the lines,

Wow.

VOTE: Kyouku

Marvelous, that's one scum.

I defend this. What he was saying is that if someone makes it clear what they are conveying you don't have to infer/assume things, not that we shouldn't look into things at all.

I thought he was saying he didn't want to elaborate? lol

[Impoetic]

hey wait luv did you ever actually explain how drealmerz scumslipped? I remember not remembering it earlier and pushing on fake scumslips is scummy but I forgot to bring it up at the time. At the moment I think drealmerz is pretty towny, just off tone. Like could be fake, but seems town.

[Impoetic]

I mean, can be scummy. Whatever

[Impoetic]

Quotewalls incoming. Tried to organize quotes by the players they were primarily addressed at to make it less unbearable to read, but time-wise they're super out of order because I ended up wiht half of the quotes on my clipboard instead of using the +q feature. Also tried to cut out the ones that I didn't have something really specific to say about like the lines I TRed drealmerz for which i originally quoted but decided to leave out

Spoiler: @Transcend

didn't read 17 lol

watch it be wrong tho

RABBIT SEEMS KNOWLEDGEABLE AND THIS PERSON'S ISO WASN'T IMPRESSIVE

VOTE: KOHAI

Can you tell me where in these posts you read page 17 and if you have an explanation, explain why you suddenly 180d because of rabbit?

Spoiler: @LUV

Fluffy earlier insisted on not being town read for some reason, makes me wonder if he's worried about people seeing that his posts are designed to have people TR him.

that is most certainly not what bothered me about his insistence. Saying he was "worried about people seeing his posts are designed to get TRs" is equivalent to saying "worried he's transparent scum" and I don't think that's the thing to provoke such WIFOM as "I shouldn't be TRed" if he wouldn't do exactly the same as town. Did that make sense?

Like do you actually picture scum having the thought process you described?

I'm mainly scum reading Impoetic because I think Drealm scum slipped but I saw a few of her explanations earlier and it give me some pause and her recent tune is relatively easy to fake so there is something there for me to look at if I'm wrong about Drealm.

just for good measure I'm gonna reiterate this question here: where's the actual scumslip and why is it a scumslip? Sorry >_< I know i just asked it but I figure since I'm putting a spoiler just for addressing you I might as well make sure you notice.

Her recent tune doesn't really feel natural at all, at least from how she was defending herself before. She seemed a lot more confident when she the accusations were first coming down. However being defensive isn't scummy, it's a character trait. So if any of you are voting her for that, please move your vote.

I mean, defensiveness can be scummy. Character affects it and it's not necessarily always so because it's such a basic thing to SR people on and scum has a brain too with which to avoid things that are really commonly acknowledged as scumtells, which I think defensiveness is. But it can be scummy, because scum care more about being voted than town. How is my fading in confidence scummy though? I might have been less confident towards the end because everyone seemed to be at odds with me, and I started feeling like I might have been spazzing out with a lot of the things I said, even if I still knew I was town. Why is scum more likely to be less confident as time goes by than town is, in your eyes?

Spoiler: @Kohai & Drone

VOTE: Ironstove

He has only posted four times in the game and is very difficult to read. I don't like how he comes in out of nowhere and immediately votes drone and accuses him of spamming.

What the hell was this flip

Why did you stop scumreading me with rabbit's bout of posting? You said before that you planned to be more detailed and engage me about your read when you got back. You didn't, and you flipped the moment someone who sounded confident/has sway and charisma came and argued.

Take cover, I feel like we're giving way too much legitimation to Fluffy's blade fury!

So is fluffy scum defending his partner? Or just town that is mistaken? I know i probably just think this because I was the target here/I know what i'm thinking, but I don't see how anyone could say his read was less legitimate than the SRs on me at that point, in terms of logic. Again, there wasn't much detailed analysis, and most of the votes were repeating others' lines of logic, which were already extremely simplistic in the first place. So what do you mean by this post about the legitimacy of Fluffy's read that you made right after talking about my overreaction?

A lot of that might still end up being fillery

I agree with rabbit's reads on both kohai and sesq, just i'm less confident in their alignments than he seems to be. Not sure I have the same read on Sesq but I agree on the actual alignment; as for kohai I think his points are good, but I don't know if kohai is actually scum and I don't think I'll be able to tell until he's able to give his thoughts on the game more in-depth.

SSBM is an OK vote too.

Spoiler: this is how I picture their interactions with transcend

But I don't know if I actually TR rabbit himself. Most of the time I'm inclined to, off of tone/making good points/etc., but it's forum mafia and I think most scum are capable of making some towny posts/a lot are pretty good with faking tone/having good logic in earlygame doesn't necessarily mean anything even if it seems like it should on a base level. I'd like for him to flip town, but I wouldn't be shocked if he ended up as either alignment.

[Impoetic]

Oh hey, not actually that many quotes in the end. Just a lot of text that I forgot to chip down

[Impoetic]

Spoiler: some reactions

#LeaveDroneAlone

Oh if only if only..!

VOTE: rb

what is this vote...? explain?

It's called scum slipppppp!! Or is it?

how the fuck did my wagon evaporate? scummiest wagon ive ever fucking seen tbh

Needless to say that some in this wagon were honest RVS, some an easy way for scum to jump in a wagon for a push, and open pathway for future LAMIST!

I looked over the post orders and if you look at it closely, Impo was already unvoting before someone voted her, but she got ninja'd. My other points were just "off" things, that are more gut. Still can't understand you half the flippin time. Drealmerz seems to be doing a lot of misrepping and also 171, which does come across as scummy, but I don't feel comfortable voting it yet. So I'll stick to UNVOTE: . Yes, I'm aware how much I'm voteshifting. It's how I play/think/smell/eat pizza.

PEDIT: rb, your wagon was mostly a jokewagon, which was in of itself fairly NAI. A lot of unvotes were also due to new people coming up and being scummier (instead of just jumping off a fading wagon).

PEDIT: my beliefs continue to be confirmed by the above posts

That's one big joke then. Huh?

you're most likely town because statistically most people are town in the game, and the argument against me is assuming you're town so there's no point in considering the other scenario

That's gonna be a "When mathematical analysis goes wrong"

Are you seriously town reading someone because statistically they are more likely to be town? Wtf?

When mathematical analysis goes wrong..

Impoetic scum too

Why would that be? She's done a pretty smashing job of defending herself.

Pedit: I have literally no idea what you are trying to say to me dreal

It's called "making a mountain out of a slope".

With drealmerz, they seem more like bad/derp town than scum to me so I'm not voting yet.

If they're town they're fine.
If they're scum they're very good!

I'm fine with Uzi, Kyouku, rb, Dream and Trancend.
Not liking Sesq.
Not liking Impoetic.

@rb
Plz explain that TR on me.
I mean, other than how your role PM told you that I'm not on your team.

Consistency is town trait
It's not a Newbie game, I think it's obvious and needless to say. But I can agree that it was a bit too early to give that read.

@Transcend
Why is Imp scum?
I'm going to split posts just so you can enjoy my avatar more...

Because of the 101st point on Impoetic, durr!

What strikes rb as scum to you?

Vote was based on gut upon game entry. Not really buying the cavalier meme-posting attitude on the first pages. Looks forced. Totally gut though.
Naked votes are best votes when entering a game.
Then rb said he couldn't remember why he was SRing ssbm.

Spoiler: Like this never happened

I just made a note "48 - enter rb:gets on the first wagon that is picking up with real intent but attributes his vote to an rvs policy lynch"
His motivation here is either scummy or towny so I'm hoping he's town

No way dude. You mean my motivation could be scummy OR towny? What an enlightening post, it's so good I think I might just

VOTE: ssbm

we should have more ssbm votes tbh

sesq is probably town rn

you can start by changing your vote to ssbm

super saiyan blue majiffy is probably not town tbh

super saiyan blue majiffy is probably not town tbh

Why do you think that?

post 54 is literally pointless fluff that serves no purpose except, 'look im contributing'

Upon wagon collapse, he gives me a TR.

TTTT goes like “look, I'm town alright? I have reasoning and I'm sure of what I'm doing" in this post. I'm buying it!

scum look bad if the wagon goes through, ppl lost their minds about it getting to L-2. i'd be mislynch but everyone on the wagon would be under suspicion - you don't really seem to give a shit because ur not worried about it, so ur town enough for now

But that means you didn't consider I'm a good enough scum player to not freak out about L-2.

Then he just shits on it with "fuck it, no I'm scum".

And that's why TTTT is scum guys!

Specifically for these two posts.

don't these posts make the flip off of me seem really odd to you? I felt like the flip was

really

fast, and if i did something that made me realistically obvtown to everyone who had previously SRed me where I wasn't until that point, I'm too dumb to figure it out on my own. I'm not an expert on VCA but I feel like some of those flips were scummy, and this is one of them.

Also whoever said you were misrepping sesq earlier (either fluffyrabbit or Roxy herself) was right.

[Impoetic]

drealmerz and sesq are two people i'm currently townleaning

sesq is far less of a serious read though, so i guess that's more null now. Nothing particularly scummy except for the lack of scummy things/standing out in general to me recently compared to earlier on.

I wouldn't be opposed to joining the luv wagon either

[Impoetic]

I feel like transcend is scum this game but last time I was SURE his tone was like that of his scumgame, i found out I was jumping to conclusions from too small a sample size, and he was town and had played far better than I had

so i'm really hesitant to push on and vote him today just for like, tone/LAMIST/disliking his reads

[Impoetic]

if i did something that made me realistically obvtown to everyone who had previously SRed me where I wasn't until that point, I'm too dumb to figure it out on my own.

It wasn't any one post that made me think "Yeah, she's probably not a lynch today." It was the entirety of the conversation with rabbit that initially got me thinking this way. At first you did look scummy with all the wallposts that looked kinda scum AtE-esque, but the more I saw you post the more genuine it looked. I was fine following fluffy's read based on that since he seems the most town to me now and he seemed the most town to me then. You've done more things to solidify that TR since and I don't think anyone

should

be trying to lynch you today. It's possible that there were scum on your wagon at the time that hopped off because they realized that the town on your wagon were starting to TR you though. So people would get off your wagon whether they were town or not imo. I just skimmed the VCs and only saw Sesq, Kohai, Transcend, and ironstove on you but I could have sworn I was voting you.

Just checked myself, I was definitely voting you for about 12 hrs, mod must've been asleep,

post sinks

It was like page 17/18 and I was convinced by what rabbit was saying about how "scum can't fake interactions that fast" (unless you rehearsed that with rabbit in daytalk PT and I don't see rabbit as scum right now at all), that's like right where I was at.

wait why are people questioning each other on V/LA

is V/LA really actually likely to be intentionally done by scum

because if it is that's lame as fuck lol

[Impoetic]

that quote was a mistake and not associated with the post.

@Kyouko:

i understand that, but I don't feel like I stopped the walls, and I don't understand what changed for people that were

outwardly scumreading me

before and then flipped, because i didn't intentionally change my playstyle as far as I can remember, and even if i did... it seems like something that might be seen as towny by

some

people, but not ALL, and certainly not all of the people who had scumread me for everything up until that point and were therefore not connecting with my mindset; on top of them, some of them should have been somewhat confbiased on top of it. Does this make sense?

[Impoetic]

Like, I can imagine that getting pressure off me helped me not seem hyperdefensive because, well, duh, but there's

also

rabbit's scene, and that seems more concrete than any of the tells you've been describing. Like, they make sense, and i can think of reasons for people to flip, but not reasons substantial enough to convince

everyone

in a pool of players who ALL claimed to think I was scummy before that point. IIRC i have literally no votes on me now. That's like, 5-0. in a short space of time.

No, not all the flips can be mafia; I just think some of them probably are, and I felt like drone was potentially one of the scummier ones.

[Impoetic]

Also not being hyperdefensive because of fewer votes is a chicken/egg scenario, because clearly some of the people who unvoted did not unvote for that, and it seems like most of htem claim not to.

There's also an odd consensus on the reasons people have been using for why i'm scum/town respectively. Again, no argument i've seen for either side has been substantial enough to make me think "jeeze, i would connect with this if i didn't have my alignment confirmed to me ahead of time" and "it totally makes sense that there's so little conflict on my alignment."

I guess that's it. Lack of conflict. Everyone agrees. That's not what I've seen in the past, and it could jsut be coincidence, but to me it seems the simplest (possibly too simple) conclusion is that some of the votes are not genuine sentiments.

[Impoetic]

*not a chicken/egg scenario but you know what i mean

oh frick i'm quadrupleposting sorry ):

anyway, i wanted to point out that town can sheep logic/be swayed by popular consensus too, and I understand that is a possible scenario. So yeah okay votes can either be town or scum.

I'll have to review it i suppose. Or look up VCA, because I don't think improvising completely is a good strategy. Or just stop and look elsewhere.

[Impoetic]

V/LA until december 4th

[Impoetic]

rb's iso was lackluster and he could basically flip either way?

i just got back and i'm trying to catch up, sorry. Titus, i thought you said you thought all town were lynching town, and i see that your SRs are not voting it, so why does wagon analysis prove he's town like that to you?

I mean, ok, lack of counterwagon. That might be a good point, actually.

But why can't TTTT be scum with him? It looks like TTTT is pushing the second most likely wagon right now.

[Impoetic]

well hey that was obvious and cool

transcend i did figure out you were town while i was rereading = ( and i think kyouko's town too from what i've seen, but i'm far from finished catching up rip

rescinding the read on sesq

[Impoetic]

OH JEEZE there are already messages. Daystart flip was the last on the page so i thought it was the last post made LMAO

[Impoetic]

Okay wait I don't think I ever absorbed who D7 was. Sorry for the dumb question, but who is that? Or do you mean like, when it hits 7 people or something? :s

predit: sorry oops, that was unclear. Transcend was obvious town and an obvious kill (in reference to the flip) and cool as in we lynched mafia. I only checked transcend's actual role after people brought it up so i didn't see he was a JOAT immediately.

[Impoetic]

actually i'm not entirely sure what the obvious was directed at it might not have been transcend given my next sentence

i assume i said it on autopilot. I didn't really remember anything about RB, and though i thought his reaction was bad, titus resisting it made me pretty indifferent to that lynch, so i would hope i wasn't referring to that.

[Impoetic]

So "obvious" refers to Tran's alignment and "cool" refers to lynching scum?
And you didn't even read Transcend's flip until after you posted 1427?

PEDIT:

Well, if it makes more sense, I think "cool" was more of a visceral reaction to how the game was going so far. I would assume "obvious" is directed at transcend, i just don't know, because I tend to type without thinking. It's a habit i haven't shaken off since Epicmafia. Why are you picking on this though? Did you think my reaction might be scum/forced when you first saw it?

@Imp
Plz explain why you failed to vote day1.
I mean other than voting rb early on day1 for a total of 47 minutes before unvoting.

I was V/LA and hadn't read up, and like I just said, Titus was resisting it. I haven't played much with Titus but I know they're generally a good player and that gave me pause. You can criticize me as a player for that mindset and i'd definitely accept it, but again, not sure why you singled me out there over others. I'm pretty sure all the other wagons were really scattered and people were effectively not voting in some of those cases?

[Impoetic]

Actually, of course I wouldn't vote? There was one wagon which I wasn't opposed to and was really close to being hammered, and a player I know is good was resisting it while the wagon itself was on a relatively apathetic/null player, with the only scumtell i knew/remembered being his reaction to the wagon that i felt was icky when i skimmed some of his iso.

[Impoetic]

I mean they're in really poor taste but iron's posts about Kohai's vla st least look like genuine scum hunting. Don't tr him yet but don't think he's today's lynch anymore for me. Want to hear more from rb before I vote I think but will need to check my notes once I'm off phone. Also will get to Impoetic when I'm home, it's hard to fully address walls from phone.

health reasons = suffering too much anxiety trying to figure out a post to craft to get him out of the hole he's dug himself into after I called out his BS to link me to his other games and would rather dump the problem onto another player instead.

Nobody has ever faked being sick to leave, or left due to suspicion. Is this projecting? Probably not. Also, I was going to unvote you for your early posts, and I don't see this as a scum move as much as I do a dick move, so I'm unvoting.

UNVOTE: ironstove

MFOS: ironstove

also, due to his recent prod-dodging shenanigans and general disengagement, VOTE: rb Get your head in the game.

Imp is getting off easy here. His posts today are bad.
Iron continues to lurk.
Probably scum in ^there

My posts today are nonexistent

and lurking is antitown but why do you say it's scum?

ugh i'm sorry i've been meaning to catch up on this game but just... blech

[Impoetic]

oh my GOD i had 2 posts in +q sorry

[Impoetic]

I think I was just saying I agree with them tho

[Impoetic]

Okay i'm sorry can someone tell me why one of the potential lynches is a PR claim? also wow, titus replaced fluffyrabbit. I was honestly townreading rabbit but at the same time felt like i was being buddied and id k

i need to catch up but the more i think about that hte less i want to play this so i'm gonna try to just do that in bits and keep up with later posts

[Impoetic]

Oh wait apparently both are PR claims

I was referring to lil uzi who claimed tracker early on

[Impoetic]

UNVOTE:

@Shannon

hey what's your actual basis for saying titusslot/bunny's conversation with me was scum-scum? Seems like a really dumb assumption out of air. The only thing I saw from it was, "Well I townread them for it so it must have been preplanned."

I never TRed bunny outwardly when other people did. If I were

really

scum, why would I intentionally not vote? Why not hop on to the wagon when it was bound to go through? I think it's pretty clear why I haven't been voting, although my personality does contribute to it.

And it makes absolutely no sense for you to use it as an argument against Titus. Plenty of reasoning behind the titus lynch, but not pre-flips analysis. If you think I'm scum with enough confidence that you'd bring that point against titus, start another wagon on me. Should be easy with how little activity I have today, which you seem to treat as a scumtell.

[Impoetic]

Put better: it's really weird that you would include that in your list of points against Titus because it doesn't seem like a substantial point in the first place and, even if it were, it would imply you wanted me lynched first solely on reads. Titus is a JOAT, so I don't see why you wouldn't try to lynch me if you thought I was scummier than titus.

[Impoetic]

Oh and I had that unvote post on Q+ (and a bunch more before I restarted my browser ooooops) because I didn't understand why you unvoted there since you didn't switch your vote

[Impoetic]

UNVOTE:

@Shannon

hey what's your actual basis for saying titusslot/bunny's conversation with me was scum-scum? Seems like a really dumb assumption out of air. The only thing I saw from it was, "Well I townread them for it so it must have been preplanned."

I never TRed bunny outwardly when other people did. If I were

really

scum, why would I intentionally not vote? Why not hop on to the wagon when it was bound to go through? I think it's pretty clear why I haven't been voting, although my personality does contribute to it.

And it makes absolutely no sense for you to use it as an argument against Titus. Plenty of reasoning behind the titus lynch, but not pre-flips analysis. If you think I'm scum with enough confidence that you'd bring that point against titus, start another wagon on me. Should be easy with how little activity I have today, which you seem to treat as a scumtell.

They're scum so...

I can't just write them off without engaging them though so...

[Impoetic]

i hadn't read the page AFTER the flip

I hadn't clicked the flip, only seen he was town. I had assumed he was VT.

[Impoetic]

Like, I saw someone mention it. Most likely it was when I went back to read the page I had missed post-daystart, since that post came after the one where I said I hadn't read it. Why wouldn't you have noticed this earlier if it were "one of the scummiest day starts of all time!"? o:

predit: yeah but isn't it something you want to know as scum too? as in, you wanna know what town lost? making it null that i didn't check it?

And yeah, he was nked, so obvs i realized he was town. durr.

[Impoetic]

drone i wanna sheep transcend's read on you but it sounds like you're pushing because of an argument that

wouldn't even be alignment indicative

if it weren't patently false

Explain why you think I'm scum

[Impoetic]

...Go on, go on. @TTTTT @Drone

y'all were super excited, right? let's see this awesome logic. I don't think i'm so biased that I can't accept it if there's something that makes me look bad, but I'm not seeing it, so level with me! Sounds like you both mindmelded and had the same exciting epiphany about something that happened ages ago

so let's hear it!

also not sure what to make of titus's townslip/dumbtell earlier so i'm leaving it at null i guess. Anyone have meta on whether titus is the type of player to force that?

[Impoetic]

internet went down for a sec. @TTTTT why don't you read drone's posts???

[Impoetic]

i'm laughing

@TTTT read what drone said

@Drone why are you conveniently pointing out that NKs are naturally going to be assumed town to

me

and not to TTTT who apparently needs to have it pointed out to him???

[Impoetic]

and drone i don't see your point.

[Impoetic]

i'm glad you're not ocnvinced of everyone's alignments and i feel your pain there assuming you're really town, but i don't see why you feel the nitpicking on semanticcs to be relevant. It doesn't change the fact that you haven't explained hwy I'm "scummy" for what you're harping on.

predit: why don't you read TTTT's posts????

[Impoetic]

i hadn't read the page AFTER the flip

I hadn't clicked the flip, only seen he was town. I had assumed he was VT.

Isn't it something you'd like to know as town? As in... You wanna know what you lost..

And yeah, he was nked, most likely town. Durr.

i hadn't read the page AFTER the flip

I hadn't clicked the flip, only seen he was town. I had assumed he was VT.

How did you see that without clicking the flip????????????????????????????????????

During the night Transcend was killed.

He was…

Spoiler:

Welcome to Mini 1857, Transcend!
You are a

Town Jack of All Trades

.
Your abilities are:
1-Shot Bulletproof – You may activate this at night to make yourself impervious to one killing action that night.
1-Shot Jailkeeper – You may choose a player to jail at night, causing any actions by them or on them during that night phase to fail.
1-Shot Gunsmith – You may choose a player to investigate for a gun that night. Possible results are “Has a gun”, “Does not have a gun”, and “No result”.
You may activate only one ability per night.
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one town player is still alive.
The game thread is here.
Please confirm by responding to this PM with your role and alignment.

Day 2 begins now!

[Impoetic]

are you guys seriously claiming you didn't fcking see that???? this was a long time ago and i don't even REMEMBER it but that's the obvious conclusion and it was literally pointed out and you both claim to have read each others' posts??????????????

really? like, actually?

[Impoetic]

is English your second language? am i just not being clear? Someone level with me. This isn't even just snark, I genuinely want to know whether i'm the one going off the deep end here?

[Impoetic]

Let me run through the scenario from my point of view again:

I was messaged saying it was daystart. I saw transcend was killed and therefore town and was like 'yeah' 'cause iirc (which i may not, because again, i don't remember this very well, it was a long time ago) he was one of the people i thought was probably town in retrospect after I saw we lynched scum 'cause of him. I was operating largely on autopilot and didn't click the flip or notice there was another page after it, so I didn't see the page between his flip and my post until I went back and checked.

You both, just now, decided it was the scummiest thing ever with an exclamation point. Someone please explain how.

[Impoetic]

Oh wow titus isn't at L-2 anymore?

[Impoetic]

I take it TTTT, drone, and Kyouko-chan were all on titus and suddenly flipped. Odd...

predit: haha jaereed more lie jade-eed

[Impoetic]

Definition of automatic pilot

1
: autopilot 1

2
: a state or condition in which activity or behavior is regulated automatically in a predetermined or instinctive manner <doing his job on automatic pilot>

predit: yes well the natural assumption is it's town.

predit2: i was assuming you had because titus was at like l-2 and you were one of 3 people i saw changing votes.

[Impoetic]

I have only had a few games of forum mafia so far, none of which involved a vig shot on mafia (or a vig shot at all that i can recall) simultaneous to a doc save. It wasn't my instinct to reconsider, especially considering

i had already thought he was town from what i read the night before

you clearly haven't thought anything out and yet you say I'm caught scum?

Predit: Yep. I think it's North anyway. I'm pretty bad with geography =(

[Impoetic]

Why would a role like that be CCed in a mini normal...?

And I'm not over-defensive, I'm just responding and trying to clarify why I think everything you said is wrong, because you didn't seem to be understanding me, or I wasn't understanding you, or whatever. Are you now saying it was a reaction test, Drone?

predit: Oh wow, I actually am lol. Neat.

[Impoetic]

Fair enough; I think I getcha now.

I would like to point out that I'm probably going to respond adamantly to accusations I disagree with for a while yet. I've been briefed once on why it might be suboptimal, but for now, I'm not entirely convinced enough to change it. If you want to call that over-defensiveness, that might be fair, but I don't fully agree that it's bad or abnormal to try to shoot down reads on you when they're made and they seem unreasonable -- which will be most of the time, because confbias.

[Impoetic]

Can titus not imitate her town meta as scum? Can you elaborate on how she's played to her town meta that you think doesn't apply to her scumgame? and what shenanigans? i literally only defended myself from random accusations and made a few random posts with initial thoughts. The things TTTT mentioned were way back at daystart. Are you saying you, along with drone and TTTT, only just noticed something scummy about them now? Be more specific about why it's scummy, since TTTT has yet to retaliate to anything I've said about it.

In fact, be more specific about everything.

Why is lurking and being AFK scummy? I don't think antitown and scum are one and the same.

[Impoetic]

that was all @sesq, I missed some posts since then. Sorry, I keep forgetting to preview.

[Impoetic]

that was all @sesq, I missed some posts since then. Sorry, I keep forgetting to preview.

I was thinking that my point of titus's meta wasnt very good after posting it, but idk. I don't really see scum there, just weird town. but rask is lurking, and her former slot was also a lurker/barely did anything. gerry is obv

Which one's weird town?

And I just don't understand why lurking is inherently scummy. In my experience -- which is admittedly minimal -- town is just as likely to lurk as scum. Like, in an ideal world, maaaybe that wouldn't be true, but

I don't think it's really that much more optimal for scum than town and I don't think that's what generally goes through your mind as scum (at least not if you're anything like me; I understand some people take a more strategic approach). I think scum are generally more involved than VTs? And have a more urgent motivation to not get lynched by PoE/lurk. It might be antitown for people to lurk overall, hence the ideal world comment, but yeah. I don't see how it's inherent that lurking=scummy, and I feel like that's a really easy way to write off an FoS and not put pressure on yourself for it.

[Impoetic]

Friendly reminder that Shannon didn't visit anyone last night according to LUV.

On the other hand, a lot of what raskolnikov said resonates with what I was thinking and/or brings to attention things I hadn't noticed. I don't think she's the *only* person who has those problems, though perhaps the only person who has all of them simultaneously. I know I still need to ISO people though

Rask, I take it you don't want to lynch either of the PR claims so far, right? Is that off reads or mechanics?

[Impoetic]

Starting to think there's no scum in Uzi/Titus for how comfortably these two joined Shannon wagon.

I don't really follow

[Impoetic]

Right now I'm kind of worried about losing our advantage and I'm also not so sure about Raskolnikov coming in and completely overlooking the lynches at the time since I recently read outside of a game that his approach upon entering late was to skim the most viable lynches. I want to see his thoughts outside of Shannon before doing anything. As for voting Shannon, I feel like I'd sooner vote Luv just off mechanics, since I don't TR either off reads? Am I being stupid there?

And I don't understand why Titus is avoiding the LUV wagon since she has outed a scumread on the slot.

I'll try to be more active with votes. So far I've considered voting sesq, drone, and luv but paranoia has struck me down before I could, and ISO of sesq reminded me of my initial TR on them so idek, still considering it

[Impoetic]

@TTTT
Lean town on imp. Kind of townslipped actually if you read my post on shannon where I talk about that wagon. I've probably already had more impact on the game than she's had throughout her existence but that isn't even a bad thing for someone who said they preferred to play as scum I think? Without much action there's only really tone, which although self-absorbed doesn't look overtly malicious... she should be pressured for more tomorrow but it's a bit late to start that today.

Sesq I'm reserving judgement on until I can question her push onto me.

For the record I prefer to play as town normally, because I want to improve. I'm just finding it really impossible to read in forum mafia games like these, and the pressure of not being caught up builds and makes me even more likely to be my usual procrastinating self. I'm sorry

[Impoetic]

I guess I'd lynch shannon today, but again, are we not doing something bad by lynching an inno this early when we have the advantage over scum?

[Impoetic]

Assuming LUV and Titus are both town, scum will probably NK Titus to prevent Gunsmith from catching them. If LUV is scum I think it's pretty easy to finish the game off since we'll have 2 of the 3 scumteam to look for associations between those 2 and the last one. If the last 2 are LUV/Shannon I'd be shocked by the accuracy of the associative reads I picked up D1. Assuming LUV and Titus are both town and the other scum are somewhere in the null zone (Sesq, Impoetic, Rask(your slot makes it hard to tr you)), scum may choose to let Titus live for WIFOM mislynch with confidence knowing she won't Gunsmith check any of them.

Coming out now to say that I'm not the vigilante.
@Vigilante: If you did not shoot Transcend last night and LUV flips Follower, don't shoot shannon. Best shot in this scenario is probably Drone or Titus, but only if the follower claim is proven legit. I'd say shoot Drone if you're comfortable with that, unless of course I'm addressing Drone right now, then just kill Titus.
If you did shoot Transcend last night and LUV flips Follower it's possible shannon ninja-killed so she could be shot in this case
If LUV flips scum just shoot shannon to prevent the WIFOM of whether he was claiming his buddy was innocent or trying to set up a mislynch in the event of his death, that way we can either wake up the victors or wake up without WIFOM clouding the lynch

Okay I think I've said everything I need to say now probably
VOTE: LUV

Go ahead Drone

Sorry, but can you run me through why you're assuming both titus and luv are town? I'm not so confident from the little I've read. Or is it solely a hypothetical?

[Impoetic]

Oh, also, "shoot shannon to prevent wifom"?

That seems like falling for wifom. Like, "giving a thief his money so he can't steal it"-type thing. Why not just

not take that report into account

if you don't want to have to worry about it?

[Impoetic]

If scum is gonna keep Titus alive, they'd have to do more than mess with her; they'd have to have some reason

worth risking getting roleblocked or guiltied

after one of their partners had been lynched day 1.

Also, we lynched nilla mafia. The mafia that leads the kill would be the second least-important member, right? And we think they have a strongman?

I feel like the mafia

not

leading the kill would have to be visiting n1, making Shannon less likely mafia solely because LUV was real.

Maybe I shouldn't try to take any of this into consideration when I'm so bad at it and know nothing about setups. Idk.

[Impoetic]

oh holy shit. sorry. i've been considering subbing out and probably would but i see i'm at L-1 so there's not really time wtf lmao

hi.

[Impoetic]

The only case against me is i'm lurking and useless, right?

[Impoetic]

Once I hear this i guess i'll replace out because it seems i'm incapable of getting involved, for the record, but I want to make sure there's nothing i can clear up first.

[Impoetic]

Impoetic, can I ask you why you haven't really voted or anything. Please give an actual reason as it will give me a better read on you.

The reason why I haven't voted should be kind of obvious, though. I haven't been here or read much, and anyone who's played with me in any version of mafia -- which certainly includes you -- knows that i'm really bad at making decisions and really bad at... playing the game, honestly. Obviously not normally this bad, but this game it has become worse and worse. D1, it really happened before I could; I came back to a wagon on RB, which I didn't mind, but didn't want to hammer when I knew nothing about the game anymore and Titus (a player I respect) was saying she townread him. That last part of the reason is bogus, but it's what went through my mind, and I'm trying to be honest.

Day 2, all the wagons were on PR claims and PR reports, and as you know, in normal mafia, it's pretty suboptimal to vote those off early on unless you're sure. I don't know if it's the same here, because again, I don't know much about setups; that's why I kept asking. You'll see that in the last part of my ISO in the few posts i did make. If people answered, I always missed it. As for starting my own, I just didn't have enough information or confidence to really feel like voting/fosing anyone, and I was just being a bad player.

Today, I have been completely absent. This is the first or second time I've even checked the website.

I might be a little cheap for playing this card, especially considering it was for slightly different reasons the other time, but you were in the other game I pulled this and I was the clear PR. I just felt completely frozen reads-wise. It applies to my epicmafia play and it applies to a much more debilitating extent here. I am fully aware of how terrible my play has been, and I kept pretending to myself I'd change it, but I don't think I'm capable of that right now, especially with how far behind I am.

Sorry.

[Impoetic]

Specifically I think it should be obvious to gerryoat, but i see he isn't voting.

@Titus: If I recall correctly I thought you were scummier than some others day 1 primarily due to townreading RB and your claim being a powerful PR in a mini normal (which shouldn't have too many, I think? not sure) when you were about to get lynched, but felt/feel hesitant actually stating that. I was also considering shannon/sesq, but at the time I reconsidered on Sesq due to the beginning of their iso (lol) and shannon is mechanically more likely town than others.

[Impoetic]

Not claiming unless there's intent to hammer because I see this as a pressure wagon/a wagon on someone who has been not participating, and I feel like it'd be a waste, but please tell me so i have the chance if you actually have intent to hammer.

[Impoetic]

I just checked and you were already voting me,

[Impoetic]

@Titus: If I recall correctly I thought you were scummier than some others day 1 primarily due to townreading RB and your claim being a powerful PR in a mini normal (which shouldn't have too many, I think? not sure) when you were about to get lynched, but felt/feel hesitant actually stating that

You thought Titus was scummy during day1 for TRing RB?
That implies your day1 thoughts leaned to rb being scum
just read your day1 iso and nope
you literally took no stance on either Titus or rb day1
when rb was at L-1 you wrote 1324
That's it.

that was d2

[Impoetic]

This is a liability lynch (oops) rather than a scum lynch, meaning mafia gets a free day even though I'm still considering subbing out (have been posting without being caught up so I'm pretty sure I'm further behind than you think, Shannon -- though the potential subber-inner would be that far behind too, they'd most likely be better than me) so the fact that I *am* subbing out should be cause for unvote unless you actually SR me, which I don't remember people voicing while I was actually active (except that brief wagon at d1 which dissipated just as briefly).

[Impoetic]

@Sesq do you consider Impoetic a compromise lynch, or do you 100% oppose it?

And with 11 days left, there's no way anyone should be on a compromise lynch, especially as a hammerer.

[Impoetic]

This is a liability lynch (oops) rather than a scum lynch, meaning mafia gets a free day even though I'm still considering subbing out (have been posting without being caught up so I'm pretty sure I'm further behind than you think, Shannon -- though the potential subber-inner would be that far behind too, they'd most likely be better than me) so the fact that I *am* subbing out should be cause for unvote unless you actually SR me, which I don't remember people voicing while I was actually active (except that brief wagon at d1 which dissipated just as briefly).

I'm beginning to think that with daytalk on shannon could have placed a quick vote on you to make your wagon look too easy/fast so that it would break up. Other people could reason it was my vote that did that but I know that if any vote was placed intentionally to make the wagon dissipate it was shannon's. That's when you followed up saying something like "wait don't speedlynch me guys I just saw like 3 votes" (quoting from memory) and then the wagon broke up soon after

Is that really the more obvious conclusion than "people crowded on the wagon because they could"? And does scum daytalk ever actually go that fast? Like, do scum really do things like that? Especially considering if shannon and I were the scumteam we wouldn't know that would be the result, and would be adding to the wagon? Normally when people talk about voting to influence other votes, it's "add pressure to the wagon and exploit group psychology".

Besides, you're saying if I'm scum, so is shannon, but there are arguments against shannon and the argument against me is, again, that I'm a liability, but I'll probably sub out anyway. This is just pre-flip associative tells, which leads me back to my previous post stating that any votes on me at this point should be due to actual scumreads.

Why didn't sub out or do more ages ago? I have been nagging you to vote since d1

That's what I'm asking myself.

[Impoetic]

For the record, when I was actually posting, I was trying to find a vote. I just couldn't find a good one.

Also, Rask replaced drealm, right? I had written down somewhere that drealm was town and I'm starting to think the disregard for the mechanics is towny from rask, too.

[Impoetic]

That came out wrong. I was looking at everyone posting and I couldn't pin down any reads that I felt comfortable pushing. It was bad, I know, and I realized that at the time, too.

[Impoetic]

@Titus: If I recall correctly I thought you were scummier than some others day 1 primarily due to townreading RB and your claim being a powerful PR in a mini normal (which shouldn't have too many, I think? not sure) when you were about to get lynched, but felt/feel hesitant actually stating that

You thought Titus was scummy during day1 for TRing RB?
That implies your day1 thoughts leaned to rb being scum
just read your day1 iso and nope
you literally took no stance on either Titus or rb day1
when rb was at L-1 you wrote 1324
That's it.

that was d2

No it wasn't.
unless by "that" you mean something other than what we are talking about...

forgot to respond to this earlier

my scumlean on titus was d2.

[Impoetic]

I don't get how no report = a guilty

why would scum leave you alive if

[Impoetic]

I don't get how no report = a guilty

why would scum leave you alive if only one of them were protected from being checked? Like, with roleblocker it makes sense, but with ascetic, there would have to be one scum that could be guiltied, so how does no report = a guilty on me? it just means scum roleblocked you...

[Impoetic]

The case atm from titus is impoetic is scum because titus got no result on her and shannon started attacking titus (before titus revealed). Otherwise titus herself said she'd consider roleblock as the explanation about as likely if not more.

But it is possible titus was roleblocked and shannon took it as opportunity without the explicit target being relevant.

Consider the following:

why is titus alive?

If you leave a claimed PR alive you're intending to mislynch them or at least have it as an option. And you follow up on this either directly attacking them or otherwise casting shade.
The pool of people that makes is Shannon, TTTT, ssbm_kyouko and partially drone.

Of all of these shannon's stance on titus hasn't really made sense (d2 wagon) whereas I think I can follow the progression of kyouko and sort of TTTT. Drone did vote titus but his logic was entirely on other things; if you're going to leave someone alive to take issue with you don't attack them for entirely different reasons or even back off in under 3 hours (2168), so I don't think he really qualifies.
Shannon didn't vote titus (shannon's style in general seems to be coming in at the end with the "compromise" vote rather than leading anything though) but cast a ton of shade and focused on the theory and the places that make sense for this. Read 2309. Shannon throughout isn't having an independent drive or views but focuses on public opinion, what "everyone" thinks is a good idea and I believe trying to bring our focus to specific areas where it shouldn't be.

Titus's theory mostly hinges on shannon scum anyways but I think titus being roleblocked and having been a pre-planned target is more likely here.

if Titus is town she's alive because scum have a roleblocker and having her around causes dissension in the ranks. No need to kill her when they can kill off the townblock and roleblock her, rendering her powerless. They still have a couple nights to kill her if they want but even as a claimed pr she's not confirmed to anyone and she can't get confirmed as long as scum keep roleblocking her. They wouldn't be scared to leave her alive in 5way LyLo because nobody would consider her conftown under these circumstances.

Rask, have you looked back at the D1 Impoetic wagon or read my case on her? Have a comment on any of that, you're really tunneling shannon as it is. Not that it's not compelling I just think scum!shannon can't avoid being lynched in 5-way and Impoetic is a big fat question mark that we should get rid of sooner rather than later

WTF is this logic

[Impoetic]

I wasn't gonna vote because I really did/still might be planning to sub out and wouldn't wanna have my vote sitting somewhere with no one in the slot (nullifying the logic in "we'll never be able to get reads on her and she's antitown so time to PolicyLynchTM" completely) but holy shit I think I'll actually

VOTE: SSBM_kyouko

[Impoetic]

the first paragraph is fine, but I can't believe that was really necessary to be explicitly stated this far into the day. You're also leaving out the possibility that titus is scum.

The second paragraph is just ??????? Shannon already stated half the problem.

[Impoetic]

also rask replaced drealmerz, right? titus replaced rabbit?

[Impoetic]

oh and @Gerry

I vote more as scum too. I've said this several times, but I haven't been here, and aside from different site, being out of practice even with normal mafia (the last 2 games on my main there are me reciting bee movie and trolling in a group of friends, you'll note that I accidentally let one of them claim my role in the second). I was tempted to omgus because I thought of all people you'd be able to get what I was saying in the longpost I wrote in response to you earlier but, whatever. You did spearhead the RB wagon, which has been my main reason for ignoring you/reads on you, but I also can't read in forum mafia at all, so, again, whatever.

[Impoetic]

aside from it being a different site*

But yeah, I think it's pretty clear I'm unmotivated and if anything I'm far more likely to stay engaged as scum because I'm far better at the game as scum as it's the only thing I've historically been decent at + my role would be more important. In fact,

most

players are less likely to lose motivation as scum. Of course people intentionally do because it's such a basic/commonly-accepted towntell, but I think that's kind of shitty to do in the way that I've been doing it, and I kind of thought you'd realize that, ergo it feels like dumbtelling. I'm saying this so you can possibly dispel my suspicions if you're town and choose to engage me, though you'd probably do it as scum too. Meh.

[Impoetic]

Gerry hammered

and is probably scum for it

[Impoetic]

wait never mind i'm dumb and didn't see the VC

[Impoetic]

...Meh. The vague dismissal without bothering to go into detail still makes me feel like he's stretching for the sake of finding a mislynch outside his team but he's not the only one doing that so idk.

[Impoetic]

I can quote dead threads for finished games, right?

Town read on Rask because he made this post giving advice to a newbie on scum hunting:

"Well, a really basic tell is, look at who is really trying to figure out the game. Original or fresh insights and deep thinking about the game; scum will often just do what they have to for appearance sake so they can look shallow or flat sometimes"

By his own standard I don't think Rask is shallow or flat, he went and looked up a game with me, Titus, and LUV in it.

(If anyone else cares, it's the dead thread from Newbie 1752 which also has Drone and SSBM in it).
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68849 > The game thread

What makes you think that rask as scum would not play to towntell in the ways they consider towntells? Rask actually pointed out it was a basic tell; it's something that, if you're aware of consciously enough to think of it when bringing up advice to a newbie, you'll mooost likely not fall for yourself as scum.

This isn't me saying I think rask is scum, but the tell he pointed out is actually kind of my problem with some of your posts. And one of his, too, from what I've read. This is one of those posts.

[Impoetic]

My problem here is that I don't have reads, and I really don't know how to get them. I know in my head that catching up (not even sure where I got to when I tried to so prior, so that's a problem) is an obvious first step, but I don't even feel like I'll be able to come to a decision if I do that, because I haven't been able to in the past.

I hope that clarifies why I've been so inert this game in my brief periods of activity. I understand I'm being overly cynical, but I'm not very good at changing my mindset in practice just because I know in theory I should, as a rule. I also understand how I might look scum, but I don't see people really bringing up anything except the inactivity. I still have yet to figure out why Titus is claiming no report = guilty. I think I'm clearly missing something there because even as scum I don't see an incentive to say something like that without some excuse.

In the meantime I'd like to know why Kyouko unvoted just then (I initially assumed the quote was an accident but are you unvoting because Drone's on the wagon?) and why Gerry thinks I'm scum, since you (Gerry) asked me a question as if to try to sort me and then chose not to with no explanation.

speaking of which lol why is titus on the wagon with drone

titus do you townread drone now

[Impoetic]

And the energy level in the above posts is because I took medicine today that I'm supposed to take but normally don't, which seems to cause hypomania as a side effect, at least for me. It has nothing to do with the thing I quoted from shannon. I was aware of that tell beforehand, but even if I hadn't been, Rask isn't actually scumreading me this game; aside from that, sudden and observable changes like that aren't exactly optimal for scum. Just pointing all this out ahead of time so anyone decides to use it as a reason later. I understand my constant defense of myself when under pressure is unsettling, but I'd still rather point it out than not do anything. Besides, again, I think Gerry knows it's totally normal for me even in the real-time version of mafia.

Also just want to clarify that I won't be mad or disappointed if you're town or anything, Gerry. I realize that might have been unclear with the "you know me better than this" stuff but I wasn't trying to guilt trip because I could be genuinely wrong, it's just all I have to go off of right now.

[Impoetic]

but yeah @Kyouko please explain your unvote in baby terms for me

[Impoetic]

Wait, it clears titus if he flips neighbor? Are their alignments confirmed to each other?

predit: suddenly noticing you're at L-1 and knowing it's your fault does tend to cause something like that, yeah.

It's not like I was completely gone, I just had other priorities and a complete lack of motivation and attention span. And still kind of do.

[Impoetic]

UNVOTE:

[Impoetic]

pfffffffffFFFF holy frick I don't get anyone at all

Shannon I was saying that you have made several posts that seemed like they could be trying to look like scumhunting rather than actual scumhunting, for pretty much the reason you quoted from rask, and that the post containing the quote was one of them.

I think if Rask was to play to his own stated town tells it would be coming across as fake.

First of all, was this really what you were saying? Can you please look over this sentence a second time and tell me if it was actually what you were saying when you made the first post about rask being town for that?

Because this is convoluted and I find it hard to swallow that you would have made a post just thinking that reasoning would be assumed. I also think it just sounds like... contrived reasoning.

predit: so if drone is town we get nothing (at least in that alley). Got it. Thanks for clarifying.

I don't really see the point in two mafia claiming a neighborhood if they don't have one though? Like, if one got lynched, the other would be confirmed -- so why is that a possibility?

[Impoetic]

I'd be pretty lost if drone flipped town and we were in lylo (didn't count, but 2 MLs seems about right? maybe 3) the next day, and I don't feel confident that the scum in there is drone if there is one. I also don't feel confident this would be a profitable risk to take. Like, I get that scum would want to take risks in that situation, but I feel like the costs of that one would outweigh what seem like slight benefits (though I guess I'm biased because the thought is being introduced to me by someone proposing to lynch in them)? Just having them associated, period, would be a big thing, and I feel like there only being one scum in them wouldn't

necessarily

keep people from...

okay maybe. idk. It seems null, but I feel like it's only worth it if we're confident drone will flip scum, so "info lynch" doesn't really add to the reasoning for me.

Also Shannon can you answer the question I asked above? It wasn't rhetorical or mocking/sarcastic, even if it could've come off that way (oops).

[Impoetic]

I find it really strange that Titus finds it so likely that we'd leave alive Titus because one of us is ascetic when it's the other one that Titus actually SRs, and even if that weren't the case, roleblocker just seems more likely from Titus's pov? Otherwise, why not just eliminate both PRs instantly and have 2 mafia vs a bunch of VTs? i mean i see the reason not to now but it doesn't seem as strong as the reason if there's a roleblocker and "I'm treating this as a guilty on the subject" doesn't make any sense to me

also where did the SR on drone go seriously

@titus

[Impoetic]

so titus, do you think me/shannon or drone/shannon is the team? Or do you think drone could be voting his partner with the person who has vocally SRed him since d2?

Also drone:
I'm focusing on what people think of me at this point in time because I'm still thinking of subbing out (not sure whether that's fair to the replacement or not, trying not to cause more trouble by doing that unnecessarily) and I want to stop being a liability slot. I was focusing on that earlier primarily because

I was actually in danger of being mislynched

, and it's bad to be mislynched, so if you have arguments for why SRs on you are bad when you're being mislynched, you should out them. There's also trying to sort my wagon, and for the most part, I'm still trying to form concrete reads. I'm just bad at doing so.

[Impoetic]

so you *do* think drone would vote his last partner with one ML left, forming half the starting point of a wagon that almost went through?