Mini Normal 1861: Musical Mafia (TOWN WIN)

[MiniDeathStar]

FOS: Flubbernugget

[Io]

I'm sheep voting with you? I had no idea. My read on massive was utterly independent of yours.

Oh wait, you don't even have a read. Just an RVS vote.

Damn, I didn't realize you were that savage.

[Secret Agent Jin]

She is pretty savage, it worries me sometimes but she gets things done and her savageness doesnt bother me as its effective.

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: AJ

I'm going to have to agree with Kai after reading their accusation.

Gonna say Kai doesn't have a post that justifies your vote, and so far neither do you.

I'm guessing these two lines are independent, but it's also the only possible line that could give reasoning to your vote.

I'm not saying that you should flail all over the thread, but to engage people who're taking issue with your thought processes instead of pretending that they aren't there, then possibly make us aware of how you're reading these things.

Have any questions for me jin?

It sounds like you're obtusely encouraging jin to flail over the thread in this post

With current site meta your best bet really is to ignore scum reads on you unless there's something off on a really fundamental level

Current site meta is a myth. People have an individual meta, the game has it's own phases, but saying 'it's suddenly acceptable to be scummy as shit' defeats the entire purpose of the game. How the hell do you win a game when you rely on someone making a mistake that large?

Certainly even if such a thing did exist, 7 players have new accounts here (though I'm running on the assumption that Culted/Elhabe are alts) and I've missed 8 months of this meta. It's ridiculously inefficient to discount actual scumtells that we've used for years in the light of some fantasy where everyone is allowed to make them.

[massive]

Massive, I would like your read on cloudkicker. I see your 94 as not reading them as town, yet your 95 votes for someone else for *reasons*

And my vote is staying on you.

I'm leaning towards town. I haven't seen any indication that his townslip isn't genuine (and I do think it's a townslip), and after thinking about it, Kairal's townslip along the same lines probably makes them both town. I don't think either of them make good lynches today. (Or lunches, if that's a thing.)

How do associative tells not work? Like I know I've been gone for 8 months but how does the community just disregard an entire part of scumhunting? (Asking because this is something I've heard multiple times in like 2 days). They absolutely do work, Grey's just grasping at shit and hoping something sticks.

There are no associative tells between town and anybody, so trying to use them as a method of scumhunting without, you know, having a scum to tie them to really isn't a thing.

If you legitimately believe Cloudkicker is scum as you say, why would you be actively against people sheeping you? You do this more than just here.

Because last game people sheeped me and I was voting town 50% of the time. We're a majority for a reason, everyone should be contributing to the discussion, not blindly following the village elder.

A -- if you were only voting town half the time, you're actually doing better than would be expected (since town is 75% of the game) so again, why would you not want people sheeping you? And B -- honey, if you think people are going to follow the village elder, maybe you better check my join date.

Oops forgot my random not-actually-random vote!

And just like that, massive starts slowly oozing down towards the scumpile.

Very interested what it is about my vote that makes me scum. And no, 157 isn't even remotely close. And no, trying to push the town based on 157 with no additional reasons is practically bullshit.

His questions felt pointless, and that vote on Kairal was super bad.

That's fair, 99 is pretty bad as well like you always see scum trying to push people while simultaneously impressing how they should be reading someone else.

Can you quote 99 and, specifically, what is exemplary of your point above?

---

VOTE: AJ

[massive]

Oh and also, MDS: Why are you demanding that people not sheep you, and then demanding that people sheep you and vote me based on absolutely nothing but your word?

[Flubbernugget]

Massive, I would like your read on cloudkicker. I see your 94 as not reading them as town, yet your 95 votes for someone else for *reasons*

And my vote is staying on you.

@minideathstar

[Flubbernugget]

Current site meta is a myth. People have an individual meta, the game has it's own phases, but saying 'it's suddenly acceptable to be scummy as shit' defeats the entire purpose of the game. How the hell do you win a game when you rely on someone making a mistake that large?

Certainly even if such a thing did exist, 7 players have new accounts here (though I'm running on the assumption that Culted/Elhabe are alts) and I've missed 8 months of this meta. It's ridiculously inefficient to discount actual scumtells that we've used for years in the light of some fantasy where everyone is allowed to make them.

I have seen people being scum read for actively defending themselves in the past few games i have played. I wouldn't encourage someone to do it to any significant extent unless I wanted to get them lynched

[Flubbernugget]

Very interested what it is about my vote that makes me scum. And no, 157 isn't even remotely close. And no, trying to push the town based on 157 with no additional reasons is practically bullshit.

How about the 135 you quoted in this exact post?

[Flubbernugget]

And you seem to have made another vote for *reasons*

[massive]

Your interpretation of 94 is incorrect. And if you think RVS votes are actually random, then you are deceiving yourself, so what's the problem with 95?

Also, please quote the vote count and point out how many of those votes have actual reasons (including your own) and then maybe expound on why I specifically am the problem?

[MiniDeathStar]

Damn, I didn't realize you were that savage.

She is pretty savage, it worries me sometimes but she gets things done and her savageness doesnt bother me as its effective.

If you legitimately believe Cloudkicker is scum as you say, why would you be actively against people sheeping you? You do this more than just here.

Because last game people sheeped me and I was voting town 50% of the time. We're a majority for a reason, everyone should be contributing to the discussion, not blindly following the village elder.

A -- if you were only voting town half the time, you're actually doing better than would be expected (since town is 75% of the game) so again, why would you not want people sheeping you? And B -- honey, if you think people are going to follow the village elder, maybe you better check my join date.

I said *blindly* following. I'm not against people voting with me, I'm against people sheeping me for no reason. The game I mentioned could have been lost with a single mislynch after Day 1, and I almost got town lynched twice. People should not blindly sheep anything, period.

By village elder I actually metaphorically meant the person acting as a leader/advisor, not literally the eldest player.

Very interested what it is about my vote that makes me scum. And no, 157 isn't even remotely close. And no, trying to push the town based on 157 with no additional reasons is practically bullshit.

So, out of all possible people you could have voted, you dumped it on the most obvtown person in the game for literally no reason. And, if you actually meant it to be a *random* "not totally random" vote, that makes it even worse. What motivation could town possibly have to drop a vote like that? Like please walk me through it.

What is exemplary of your point above?

You mean which questions were pointless?

"Why would you be actively against people sheeping you [on page 2]" - obviously because it gives me no information.

"Is it important the order in which these things happened?" - how is that remotely relevant?

These are the exact sort of questions scum would be asking to distract people and appear helpful without actually getting any helpful answers. Cf. Kop in Open 656, bangthemafia in Open 658.

Massive, I would like your read on cloudkicker. I see your 94 as not reading them as town, yet your 95 votes for someone else for *reasons*

And my vote is staying on you.

@minideathstar

Didn't see that, my bad. I still wasn't "sheeping" you though.

Like am I wrong on what sheeping actually means? I thought it only referred to joining a wagon without good reason or literally any reason. I wouldn't call just happening to vote the same person "sheeping".

[Aj The Epic]

Sheeping's just following someone else's vote.

[Aj The Epic]

There are no associative tells between town and anybody, so trying to use them as a method of scumhunting without, you know, having a scum to tie them to really isn't a thing.

Then what's it called when you're assuming someone's mafia and doing association from that? Is

that

confbias or just tunneling?

Cf. Kop in Open 656, bangthemafia in Open 658.

Like I'm not really a hardcore meta crack addict so can we not reference games that no one is going to read until someone asks for outside game examples? Exceptions of course if target audience actually played with you in said game

Psst, guys, jin doesn't want to address the pressure on him until there's an 'actual wagon'.

Who's down to figure out how many votes jin thinks a wagon is?

It sounded more to me like he didn't see any pressure, or at the very least, didn't want us to think he saw pressure.

And he'd be completely correct in not seeing any pressure, as there wasn't any.

[MiniDeathStar]

There are people here who were in those games, but basically I just referenced them

by the way

so people can ask me to show quoted examples or check if I'm not pulling rabbits out of a hat.

[Io]

Sheeping's just following someone else's vote.

Specifically it's seeing a wagon and voting on it without any sort of reason other than it's the top wagon.
There is a difference between agreeing and sweeping.

[-Grey-]

Sheeping's just following someone else's vote.

Specifically it's seeing a wagon and voting on it without any sort of reason other than it's the top wagon.
There is a difference between agreeing and sweeping.

No there's not, but there

is

a difference between

concurring

and sheeping.

[Aj The Epic]

That's some semantics I really could care less for.

[Io]

Sheeping's just following someone else's vote.

Specifically it's seeing a wagon and voting on it without any sort of reason other than it's the top wagon.
There is a difference between agreeing and sweeping.

No there's not, but there

is

a difference between

concurring

and sheeping.

Concurring is literally defined as agreeing.
They are interchangeable synonyms.

[Io]

Sheeping's just following someone else's vote.

Specifically it's seeing a wagon and voting on it without any sort of reason other than it's the top wagon.
There is a difference between agreeing and sweeping.

No there's not, but there

is

a difference between

concurring

and sheeping.

Concurring is literally defined as agreeing.
They are interchangeable synonyms.

[Io]

Sheeping's just following someone else's vote.

Specifically it's seeing a wagon and voting on it without any sort of reason other than it's the top wagon.
There is a difference between agreeing and sweeping.

No there's not, but there

is

a difference between

concurring

and sheeping.

Concurring is literally defined as agreeing.
They are interchangeable synonyms.

[Io]

Sheeping's just following someone else's vote.

Specifically it's seeing a wagon and voting on it without any sort of reason other than it's the top wagon.
There is a difference between agreeing and sweeping.

No there's not, but there

is

a difference between

concurring

and sheeping.

Concurring is literally defined as agreeing.
They are interchangeable synonyms.

[Io]

I hate slow internet.

[Gamma Emerald]

Vote Count 1.05

1 - Io: CloudKicker
1 - Elhabe21: Kairal
0 - HellloooNewman:
0 - MiniDeathStar:
0 - Kairal:
0 - Flubbernugget:
0 - I Am Innocent:
1 - Secret Agent Jin: culted
3 - CloudKicker: HellloooNewman, Elhabe21, Secret Agent Jin
2 - -Grey-: I Am Innocent, Aj The Epic
0 - culted:
2 - massive: Flubbernugget, MiniDeathStar
3 - Aj The Epic: -Grey-, Io, massive
0 -No Lynch:
Not voting:
culted FoSes Io, Elhabe21, HellloooNewman, MiniDeathStar, Kairal, Flubbernugget, I am Innocent, Secret Agent Jin, CloudKicker, -Grey-, massive, and Aj The Epic
MiniDeathStar FoSes Flubbernugget
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is (expired on 2016-12-19 23:30:00)

[Aj The Epic]

Concurring is literally defined as agreeing.
They are interchangeable synonyms.