New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball - [Game Over]

[MiniDeathStar]

Wow, Human Sequencer is such a bully. That was so not gentlemanly of him.

[MiniDeathStar]

Are you underestimating me, mon chéri? Size is not everything. You of all people should know that.

So be it then.

@Gentleman Jester, I am pleased to accept your kind invitation.

Let us dance under the moonlight!

[MiniDeathStar]

I've decided to suppress my SJW'ness because I love masquerades and gothic decor.

inspectorscout, what can I say, I'm dying for men with a sense of humour. As he just demonstrated.

[MiniDeathStar]

Whoever said the thing about not putting your dick in crazy?

Well Jester should probably have listened but it's too late now.

[MiniDeathStar]

I might be a little tipsy. Just a little.

Jester, you know I'm leaving the dance if you're scum, right? You're a great guy and all but I kind of draw the line at the obvious red flags.

[MiniDeathStar]

Don't you touch my Jester. He's not scum until *I* say he is.

[MiniDeathStar]

You ladies are all so picky. I just put out for the first gentleman who asked me and I have absolutely no regrets.

Nahdia is right though.

[MiniDeathStar]

Can we like seriously stop talking about the setup already? Please. Pretty please.

[MiniDeathStar]

Umm I just played a game with Cerberus (newbie 1754) where he was scummy af all game and was town. In fact, he was so scummy that I had tracked him to nobody with only one scum alive and we still almost lynched him.

Make of that what you will.

[MiniDeathStar]

Also hands off my Jester please. I literally signed up to play with him, we're not lynching him this quickly. Idc if he's scum or not.

[MiniDeathStar]

Given her reads I'm pretty sure HS is Klingoncelt's alt.

[MiniDeathStar]

screw right off, honestly

Sorry but no. Your reads suck.

@mini
Literally every single non-newbie I've been in.

'Are you an alt?'
'Oh, you're xs alt'
'Hum. What other sites have you played on?'

No, I am as new as my profile would have you believe.

Oh I was just kidding. I know you're not. But like her, you have this "Guys seriously I found the scumteam already and you should sheep me because I'm so right that whoever I name gets modconverted to scum" aura.


P. Edit:

scumslip

,

n

/'skʌmslɪp/

A careless mistake that exposes one as scum.

‘And why do you wanna pair up with nahdia and get killed during intermission?’

[MiniDeathStar]

I know Jester's scumgame and I don't think this is it.

[MiniDeathStar]

Oh my god I don't know if I'll manage to keep up with that kind of volume. I hope this game will quiet down once we're all assigned dance PTs and relocate some of the spam out there.

[MiniDeathStar]

@mh I'm not sucking up to him. He is aware that I rate him highly and your opinion of him is invalid btw.
Newbies are the crap games. Those horrible fucks are impossible to read properly.

Well someone's horse is a little high...

is nobody else going to acknowledge the actual, honest-to-god scumslip from shadow

i haven't seen a slip that clean-cut in ages

I acknowledge it. Taking back what I said about your reads.

I still think you're wrong about Jester though. And I'm not saying this because I'm biased or anything.

[MiniDeathStar]

This feels like a rerun of this game. ISO Jester there and tell me if you still think he's scum.

[MiniDeathStar]

Your defending of jester is giving me a huge bad vibe from your pairing btw.

Do you regret matching up with him?

Well I think you're scum so I don't care about your vibe.

I signed up to pair with Jester and I literally don't give a fuck about his alignment right now. Trust me, if I think he's scum, I'll vote for him. He isn't getting away with it. But I'll be the judge of that, not HS.

[MiniDeathStar]

Oh and by the way HS I'm pretty sure if someone repeatedly called you scum for random reasons and kept misgendering you, you'd be just as discombobulated.

I'm gonna go to chess tourney now, hopefully won't be a billion posts when I get back huehue.

Pedit: No it actually feels like you're scum who matched up with a townie who's now getting scumread and now you're scared.

If I were scum Jester would figure me out immediately anyway, so it's not you or HS I'd be scared of.

[MiniDeathStar]

Parama gave up too easily.
Just scum try to set up mislynches.

Can this OMGUS be any more transparent though?

[MiniDeathStar]

Oh there's the second OMGUS.

[MiniDeathStar]

1880s called, they want their scum hunting tools back.
If omgus is the best you can do you should go back to playing newbies.

No, it's not my only tool, but yours was pretty obvious. Parama going quiet means literally nothing. It's been a couple hours since this game started, she could have just gone to do something else. Like, out of all infinitely more plausible explanations you reach for something that 1) can't be proven and 2) can't be defended against.

And honestly invoking the "I'm a lynchbait" defence this early in the game is just... idk. I don't like it.

[MiniDeathStar]

Wtf? When did I say that I'm lynchbait?

You accused Parama of "setting up mislynches" and "scraping the bottom of the barrel". I'm pretty sure by that you meant yourself?

In this setup I say guys are free to ask whoever they want

But ladies should show restraint, knowing one of the guys gets lynched


Why did mds accept a proposal on page 1?

Human is right, I signed up for the game pretty much only because of Jester and because I was fangirling over masquerade parties earlier (totally unrelated but hell of a coincidence). We had planned that pairing all along.

[MiniDeathStar]

Morning loves. That took literally an hour to read in one go so sorry if my memory of what I read isn't crystal clear.

First, I feel like I have to clear up the air wrt/ Jester. I actually agreed with his logic on the IC, I just didn't think Cerb was scum for it because he proposed super early. But basically I think town should shy away from the IC so that scum would be forced to pair with them and not expel them over the intermission. As for my defending him, I'll give you 3 reasons:
1) I literally joined this game just for him. Of course I'm not going to allow a quicklynch.
2) He's been lynched before over bs reasons and his reads were actually pretty accurate, but town wrote him off and lost.
3) I know his style, and if he's scum I'll figure it out eventually. But he's *not* going to be scum for """lurking""" or """scum pair with IC""".

Okay *takes a deep breath*.

I still think Shadow is scum. For me it was less the scumslip and more the ad hominem ("go back to newbie games") + however you call it when you reach for the easiest way to make someone look scummy and they can't disprove/defend themselves from it (e.g. "look how she went quiet, obviously ran out of mislynches to set up").

I'm unsure about Gamma. I've played like 3 games with em and e was scum in 2 of them, but e reads different *every time*. Anyway, I caught em pretty quickly the first time so I can put em on hold for now.

I don't know who else I thought was scummy... vague suspicion on whoever defended Shadow?

To adapt from something rb once said:
MariaR's entire scumgame is just to act cutesy so that all the men in the game don't wanna lynch her becoz it hurts their chances of having teh sexes chat with her, ergo she's scum now because AAAAHH EMOTION-NAL P-POSTING PLZ D-DONT HURT MEEE
Also that quick pairing with probscum Shadow isn't good

................
I've never been this close to emotionaly subbing out in a game before ty

Open 657 - Making Friends and Enemies? (you know, the game where we both actually *did* emotionally sub out)

I agree with you though, that was pretty dickish of Gamma and also I think you're town. GAMMA I THOUGHT YOU WERE AN SJW LIKE ME, WHAT'S UP WITH THIS.

[MiniDeathStar]

Oh I forgot to vote. VOTE: Shadow. Sorry your gentleman is scum Maria.

[MiniDeathStar]

I think Gamma's town by the way. I couldn't find anything that screams scum in eir ISO.

Oh hey look, another person calling me scum for defending myself slash people I like. I almost forgot it happens literally every game. So like Dunn, please kindly gtfo with that and find a better hook.

[MiniDeathStar]

Could you walk me through scum!Gamma? I think he's less fond of useless/fluff posts when he's scum.

[MiniDeathStar]

So gamma desperately proposes as one of the last 3 single men
To a scumread

And when he can leave he causally forgets his scumread on gis partner

???

Walk me through town gamma

1) Doesn't go for low-hanging fruit like scum!Gamma does.
2) Looks goofy and comfortable like town!Gamma and unlike scum!Gamma.
3) Habitually scummy which IIRC is typical of him.
4) Why would town gents be OK with being left behind? Why would town gents refuse to pair with scum ladies? I don't get that part.
5) Did he forget the scumread? I must have missed that. I think he just said "I don't tr Vedith"

So like Dunn, please kindly gtfo with that and find a better hook.

Hook?

As in something you latch onto when you build a case. Because me defending myself and others is not it. And atm I'm not sure how I'm reading you so I don't know if I want to dissect your jabs at me or just write you off. I think I'll go with option 2 for now.

[MiniDeathStar]

Sorry Dunduns, I don't want to distract myself with you while I'm onto actual scum. If you manage to convince more people that I'm scum, call me again.

Where did Gamma go for low-hanging fruit? E was scum in Open 656 and went for lynchbaits with bs reasons all Day 1. I don't see that here.

[MiniDeathStar]

I don't have a strong opinion on Vedith yet but I'm leaning town. Jester can read him much better so I'll wait until he's caught up.

@inspector:

I can't comment on 2 and 3 at this time, sorry. Can you link the game you're referring to?

@Dunn:

I defend people who I think are noosebait. I'd much rather see a Shadow evict than a Gamma evict atm.

[MiniDeathStar]

If Shadow is town Kagami might be scum. Otherwise Shadow is the best I have right now.

Btw inspector had a point, Gamma does look different as town in that game.

[MiniDeathStar]

There are people here who can read me correctly: mhsmith, Gamma, Jester, Cerberus. Dunn is not amongst them.

[MiniDeathStar]

Sorry but this "you're scum cuz you defend ppl" gets old after the first 3 times. Dunn can think I'm scum all he wants, I'm sure he'll feel pretty stupid after I flip but next game I'm same thing will happen again. Sorry but I'm not changing my playstyle.

[MiniDeathStar]

Quick reference:

just really tryhard-ish and at the same time passive.

will pinch myself so hard if you flip scum

also unnecessarily defensive.

walk me through Aubrey!Town because I really don't see that one.

Guess what? Both Aubrey and I were town that game and I was hard defending him.

Another reference I'm lazy to quote: NJAC in Open 656. Both scum were hard tunneling him and I was hard defending him. Both NJAC and I were town.

So like, seriously fuck off with that.

[MiniDeathStar]

All he said was this morning and along the lines of "oh god 36 pages to read *groan*"

[MiniDeathStar]

I think Human is town. I actually hope she's town because I don't see scum!her in any way atm.

[MiniDeathStar]

Scum Meter
Nahdia
Human Sequencer
pieguyn
Cerberus
Parama
Gamma Emerald
MariaR
Ser Arthur Dayne
Vedith
Jester
inspectorscout
mhsmith0
Dunnstral
Kagami
Shadow_step

town

|

~town

|

null

|

~scum

|

scum

[MiniDeathStar]

Whoever is town in this lot is going to eat one heck of a humble pie after my flip.

Maybe. Honestly though? If you're town, you can't blame the whole town for reading you as scum. Your reactions to people accusing you were horrible. If we mislynch you, that's going to be on you, too.

@Maria:

Do *you* think Shadow is scum? Have you managed to get a read on him in your lover meeting?

[MiniDeathStar]

MDS you are so deep in the tunnel that you don't realise you are scum reading me for exactly the same thing which you are doing. Telling Dunn to fuck off for scum reading you.

Sorry I kind of overlooked that.

I told Dunn to fuck off because he was scumreading me for defending people. Like in literally every game I've played someone has accused me of that, and I've only ever been scum twice in my career.

[MiniDeathStar]

And btw I never threw shade on Dunn like you did with Parama ("she got quiet cause she ran out of mislynches")

[MiniDeathStar]

I feel like Kagami sheeped your case without adding much. Also I'm not scumreading her, I'm nullreading her. My reads in each category aren't sorted in any particular order, I just wrote down the names from memory.

P. Edit: Fine, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on the OMGUS. We have 8 days until the deadline, please calm down. We're not lynching anybody this early.

[MiniDeathStar]

UNVOTE: Shadow

[MiniDeathStar]

You disappoint Jester, I thought my town game was more obvious.

Or perhaps you think I've upgraded my scum game?

[MiniDeathStar]

Umm... private topics are private... for a reason...

[MiniDeathStar]

He's lying, he's town.

[MiniDeathStar]

I asked a daring question and I used suggestive phrasing in attempt to extract an honest reaction out of Jester, and I didn't like his response. But I'm not going to say he's scum based just on a hunch. If I'm going to be totally honest, I like playing with him regardless of whether he's scum or not and I'd feel pretty horrible if I were the reason he got voted off as town. I wish he'd just shut up about my read on him.

He didn't lie to you, I just said that to shut him up. :/

[MiniDeathStar]

I would like the people who scumread Vedith explain why scum!Vedith would call his--

her?

gentleman scum, especially with how many votes Gamma has right now? Like even if it's a gambit for towncredit, towncredit is literally useless for Vedith if Gamma ends up being booted from the dance floor.

[MiniDeathStar]

If there's scum in that pair, I don't think it's Vedith.

[MiniDeathStar]

Oh I know. I'm just saying it's a good thing to consider, even if it's a WIFOM.

[MiniDeathStar]

Bf's ignoring me so here I am again. Hi. Missed me?

@Kagami and Arthur:

I really don't want to have to explain again why I'm dancing with Jester and why I was defending him in public even though I had a scumread on him in private. Please don't make me do that.

@Human Sequencer:

Jester seems to think Shadow is a mislynch and he kind of skinned me in our PT for using "omgus" against him. (JK, Jester's still cute even when he's mad, and I think he was mostly mad at you for using the same tactic against Shadow that you used against him). Anyway, I unvoted because I didn't want to rush headlong into a lynch so early in the day and I was kind of second-guessing my conviction on Shadow.

Though to be honest if Jester's not scum and

*if*

Shadow's not scum, I've absolutely no idea who is. I'm still not totally sold on Gamma. Kagami is a possible candidate, like I said earlier she sheeped Shadow's wagon and her case on me is godawful. Going by POE, Smith maybe?

[MiniDeathStar]

Oh, I missed that. I see both Para and HS as town.

Weren't you just hard defending gamma

That was hard defending? I just didn't see the case on him. I don't consider calling out superficial reads hard defending.

[MiniDeathStar]

Did Smith just fall one level further down the scumpile for everyone, or was it just for me? I felt like that jab at inspector was incredibly far-fetched.

Reaching...

[MiniDeathStar]

Parma is right by the way, Shadow literally just lied about his perspective at an earlier point in the game.
We can't not lynch shadow today. No way.

I agree with this btw. I'm just waiting on Jester to see if he can convince me otherwise.

[MiniDeathStar]

Oh I just figured out WK means whiteknighting. Lmao I'm slow.

MhSmith, you gave me your walls of text explaining why townies make careless mistakes a lot more than wolves, and why digging into those instead of analysing votes, stances and reads is something a wolf would attempt. So I thought you were bullshitting us. My scumread on you has nothing to do with my read on inspector or Arthur.

[MiniDeathStar]

@MhSmith:

I just thought it was suspicious that you latched onto that when so much stuff has happened that you could have analysed instead. I saw it and I thought he was derping. I was wondering why you didn't give him the benefit of the doubt and instead looked for something more substantial to bring up. It looked opportunistic to me.

Besides, I'm confident in your ability to easily make out pretty much anything to be a scumslip so I'm not going to trust you on that particular thing. Sorry. When you get to casing people based on readonomics and wagonomics, then we can talk.

@inspector:

I was a scumread? I had no idea. Could you point out where?

[MiniDeathStar]

@Human Sequencer:

I thought you were accusing him of avoiding you? That's what I meant by lurking.

Idk what was so anti-town about that post. People were concerned I defended Jester so early on and I explained why I was defending him. Why is that anti-town? I mean, he could well be scum. *I* thought he was scum and said it in our dance PT and told him I didn't care atm. I just wanted to bloody play with my friend for a while before voting him off based on a hunch. Like why is that so hard for everyone to comprehend?

[MiniDeathStar]

Wow, I am so sorry for not being super super serious about the game on the literal first day.

[MiniDeathStar]

I'm supposed to have controversial reads to be town? Wow, thanks, I'll write this down for next time I'm scum.

[MiniDeathStar]

You know, I'm seriously tempted to leave the dance just to spite some people here but I can't do that to Jester so I guess I'll have to endure more of this bs.

[MiniDeathStar]

Btw how was Gamma-town uncontroversial? Or Kagami-scum? That's got to earn me at least £50 town pounds, right?

[MiniDeathStar]

Is sarcasm escaping everybody or what? I kind of want to tone down the cynicism but you guys are making it incredibly difficult.

[MiniDeathStar]

Why do you think Kagami is scum?

Cloning your reads. Copying the case Shadow without much original input from herself. Staying under the radar.

If Shadow's scum she could be town though.

[MiniDeathStar]

>literally scumslips
>n-no i was j-joking g-guys

You seriously think "next time I'm scum" implies I'm scum now?

[MiniDeathStar]

The joke was obviously about having controversial reads == being town. As in, if that's all it takes to be town then I'll have a super easy time as scum.

[MiniDeathStar]

It means I'm town without controversial reads and people think I'm scum. Meaning next time (as in, when I roll scum), I'll have controversial reads and people would be townreading me. Capisce?

Sorry though, not leaving this dance on my own. You'll have to work for it.

[MiniDeathStar]

Why do you think she's town if shadow is scum? (and if shadow is town, why is kagami scum)

I saw the shadow read as more opportunism rather than bussing. Plus I don't think she'd gain much from bussing this early.

[MiniDeathStar]

@Dunn:

I told Jester earlier this evening in the PT that I thought there was a scum between {Dunn, Kagami, Arthur} because the reads looked suspiciously similar, and I said Arthur looked too town to be scum. So I asked him if scum!Dunn or scum!Kagami was more likely to copy the other's reads, and Jester was like "Dunn is a great player as either alignment and not easy to fool", so I figured out she'd be the one doing the copying.

"I'm unsure about Gamma. I've played like 3 games with em and e was scum in 2 of them, but e reads different *every time*. Anyway, I caught em pretty quickly the first time so I can put em on hold for now."

There's a HUGE difference between saying "X is town" and what you said.

888 was my catch-up post. I had read the whole thing in one go and gave my quick analysis. The Gamma town-lean came later when I ISO'd em and thought (because of meta) e was being more VI than scum. I've been in two games where e was scum and trying hard to frame people and push mislynches, and one game where e was town and read similar to his play this game. So like, I kind of thought e was a low-hanging fruit at that point so I wanted to inquire deeper into eir case and see if there's anything that I was missing.

Btw Jester thinks Gamma's scum, too.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here
Are you trying to show that kagami is scummy for sheeping? I don't get it, I need Jester's retard translation again

What happened to positivity? I don't think I'm going to answer you until you ask in a nicer way.

[MiniDeathStar]

I think I'm caught up now. Parama is still town, Gamma isn't a townlean anymore. I am totally lost on Shadow because I believe Maria and Jester about him, but I was so sure he was scum earlier that idk what to make of him now. I don't like some of the company on that wagon.

@Parama:

Sorry about being stupid earlier. I wasn't going to let Jester get away with it for long, I just really really wanted to play with him for a while. I actually think he's town now though. He made some really good posts in our PT and supported my decision to quit the dance if I thought it was the right thing to do.

@Dunn:

Have you heard back from Kagami yet?

[MiniDeathStar]

it's not

I'd much rather we step away at some point earlier than be in LYLO with lots of people scumreading our pair.

[MiniDeathStar]

Town pairs for me so far:

Cerb/Nahdia
Jester/Mini
HS/Parama
(Jester thinks Maria/Shadow is town, too, but I'm not too sure)

[MiniDeathStar]

Why is everybody suddenly arranging lynches for like 2 days from now? Calm down please.

Sorry I'm not pushing the Shadow wagon but Jester is pretty set on both of them being town and I trust his judgement.

[MiniDeathStar]

@Arthur:

I think I've already expressed at least two scumreads, why do you keep insisting I have none? Did you ISO me before saying that?

1. Kagami - been suspecting her tens of pages back, already explained why. I'm not voting her because it wouldn't get traction.
2. mhsmith - explained that one, too. The attack on inspector felt incredibly hollow, and I didn't really like his explanation. But again, no wagon coming out of that.
3. At the time you wrote that, I was sort of torn up between Shadow and Gamma for the third contender but wasn't sure on either, which is why I wasn't voting either. But now I think Shadow is town and Gamma is more back to null. I'd seriously look at the people who use me and Jester as a safe wagon in case Shadow flips town. I already said this in our private PT, but I'll say it here, too. It went something like:

Mini:

We're probably going to get scrutinised regardless [for not voting Shadow]. If he flips scum, it'll be "why did you back off that wagon." If he flips town, it'll be "how did you know he was town." Either way we'll get fingers pointed but I don't care, I'm not going to play by the majority's rules, and I don't think we'll make it to endgame anyway.

My point is, I think those people are escaping scrutiny by using our couple as an easy excuse, because there's really no reason why they'd think either Jester or I are scum for what we're doing and not just, idk, suboptimal play.

So that'd be pie, inspector, *maybe* Arthur (although I'm townreading Arthur for now).

[MiniDeathStar]

Smith wasn't the first to say that btw. I remember a lot of accusations like "did you just share that in your scum PT" flying out and about during pre-dance. Also I think smith in particular played this game before so he'd know scum would have daychat.

Smith is still scum though, just not for that thing in particular.

[MiniDeathStar]

I'm calling bullshit on that, by the way. Nobody consistently works 18 hours a day straight without working themselves to death in the western world.

Not that his private life is any of your business but he really does work 18 hours a day on some days. Please stop trolling him.

Also I think smith in particular played this game before

Right. If he had said that I'd have backed off from that reasoning

Do you remember who else was saying things like that? Because I don't

If my memory serves me right, I think it was Parama. I'd have to double check though.

[MiniDeathStar]

Ah, nope, not her.

If you need help to have a non garbage opening I'll help you out to buddy.

Here is what you do:

Take a random post in the thread. Call it scummy.

Take another random post in the thread. Call it townie.

You then go into your scum PT and make sure you tell Shadow to do the same exact thing.

Hey, you actually decided to respond! Look at that, did your scumbuddies in the scum PT tell you to do that?
Tell Jester to come out of there and start posting for me, I know she likes hiding from people who are scumreading her but this is just silly!

[MiniDeathStar]

I believe we lose if we run out of time during the second dance and mafia are still in the game.

[MiniDeathStar]

Damn, I alt slipped. SORRYYYYYYY.

Really though, there's no other way to interpret it. We run out of time during second dance, we lose.

[MiniDeathStar]

But you asked literally everybody what they thought of her and the most you got was "eh she could be scum I guess, idk". Nobody voted her. That's what I meant by no traction.

[MiniDeathStar]

Smith wagon I can agree with. VOTE: mshsmith0 x pieguyn

Jester's town though. Dunn's also town. I think he pretty much townslipped with the daychat thing.

[MiniDeathStar]

@Dunn:

Did Kagami comment on this? You said she was townreading Shadow x Maria

VOTE: Shadow Pair

[MiniDeathStar]

Did you miss where I was just in a setup of this type (same game as parama/hs/maria/sickofit/gamma/vedo)

I did actually. What was the daychat thing about then?

[MiniDeathStar]

Me and Gamma leave, if both town lynch Maria / Shadow. If Gamma flips scum, then I feel less confident on Maria/Shadow scum as there would be no reason for Gamma to also push that pair.
From there, we can actually work to Dunn's reads imo.

It *sounds* like a good plan, although I think you Vedith would be pretty useful later in the game. Moreso than Shadow. (SORRY SHADOW).

[MiniDeathStar]

Tbh as much as I hate to say it if any pair should leave it probably should be mine, considering how many people think we're useless.

[MiniDeathStar]

@everyone:

If Jester and I are both town, who do you think is the scum?

[MiniDeathStar]

Maria is town af.

[MiniDeathStar]

I actually doubt Gamma and Kagami are scum together. There might be no scum in {Maria, Shadow, Gamma, Vedith} after all.

[MiniDeathStar]

You are the only person who doesn't think scum is in our 4, to my knowledge anyway.

Have you considered that Gamma might just be scummy and the mafia are taking advantage of it? Because honestly Kagami is a lot scummier to me than Gamma atm and I don't see them being scum together. I don't know what's been going on in your lover PT but if you're that strongly convinced then maybe my reads just suck.

I'm not opposed to our pair's lynch though, even if it ends up being a policy lynch in the end. Too many scumbags have tried to use us to further their agenda and I want to put an end to that. I'm just concerned that my reads are probably going to be ignored later on.

[MiniDeathStar]

You do realise that if neither you nor Shadow are lynched, my wagon is the next biggest contender, right? If I were scum and you town, I'd absolutely want you all lynched.

I've explained my reads in detail, please ISO me.

[MiniDeathStar]

I was sort of torn up between Shadow and Gamma for the third contender but wasn't sure on either, which is why I wasn't voting either. But now I think Shadow is town and Gamma is more back to null. I'd seriously look at the people who use me and Jester as a safe wagon in case Shadow flips town.

[MiniDeathStar]

Thanks for scum claiming as a team btw

I literally don't get this.

[MiniDeathStar]

Does town!Gamma ever flail this wildly? I only have one town game with him and he was totally cool being lynched in it.

[MiniDeathStar]

I mean, we've seen him replace out with no regrets as scum from a game that looked like an easy win for him, so

It was only easy because his pal killed me and town totally forgot I ever existed.

Exactly what I'm afraid is going to happen this game.

There's a 1 in 8,000 chance for getting scum twice.

3% actually, if we're talking 3/18 scum in both games.

[MiniDeathStar]

Interesting how maths works in your dimension.

[MiniDeathStar]

VOTE: Gamma

This flip provides most info right now.

[MiniDeathStar]

We were just talking about it in our lover PT, Jester had the impression the general consensus was that I was scum with Gamma, and voting him off would be poor play for scum-me because I'm the next person to lynch if he flips scum.

[MiniDeathStar]

Lynch elsewhere *before* your pair?

[MiniDeathStar]

Like... I can't even express how scummy that came out.

[MiniDeathStar]

You know, I dared suggest for a tiny moment that you could all be town and immediately got called scum for it. I love how openminded everyone around here is.

[MiniDeathStar]

I already predicted in our PT that our pair would be voted off regardless of what Gamma and/or Shadow flipped, so you're welcome to do that. I've given my scumreads already and they didn't include Gamma or Shadow.

VOTE: Kagami

[MiniDeathStar]

For the record, they are: Kagami, mhsmith, 1 of {inspector, Arthur, pieguyn (or smith)}

[MiniDeathStar]

Btw,

@Vedith

:

I'm not opposed to our pair's lynch though, even if it ends up being a policy lynch in the end. Too many scumbags have tried to use us to further their agenda and I want to put an end to that. I'm just concerned that my reads are probably going to be ignored later on.

For the record, they are: Kagami, mhsmith, 1 of {inspector, Arthur, pieguyn (or smith)}

so same groups as the ic?

Except I gave them quite a few pages earlier?

[MiniDeathStar]

@Arthur:

I think I've already expressed at least two scumreads, why do you keep insisting I have none? Did you ISO me before saying that?

1. Kagami - been suspecting her tens of pages back, already explained why. I'm not voting her because it wouldn't get traction.
2. mhsmith - explained that one, too. The attack on inspector felt incredibly hollow, and I didn't really like his explanation. But again, no wagon coming out of that.
3. At the time you wrote that, I was sort of torn up between Shadow and Gamma for the third contender but wasn't sure on either, which is why I wasn't voting either. But now I think Shadow is town and Gamma is more back to null. I'd seriously look at the people who use me and Jester as a safe wagon in case Shadow flips town. I already said this in our private PT, but I'll say it here, too. It went something like:

Mini:

We're probably going to get scrutinised regardless [for not voting Shadow]. If he flips scum, it'll be "why did you back off that wagon." If he flips town, it'll be "how did you know he was town." Either way we'll get fingers pointed but I don't care, I'm not going to play by the majority's rules, and I don't think we'll make it to endgame anyway.

My point is, I think those people are escaping scrutiny by using our couple as an easy excuse, because there's really no reason why they'd think either Jester or I are scum for what we're doing and not just, idk, suboptimal play.

So that'd be pie, inspector, *maybe* Arthur (although I'm townreading Arthur for now).

[MiniDeathStar]

If you want me evicted cast your fucking votes already. I seriously don't have patience for this. Just don't ignore my reads after I flip town.

[MiniDeathStar]

I don't have an individual scumread on pieguyn, but I'm paranoid we wrote her off too soon and she hasn't exactly been very helpful or present this game. This whole staying under the radar and passively pushing a popular wagon without commenting much is too scumvenient for me to keep ignoring her.

[MiniDeathStar]

Its basically tone, pt and those interactions with mds
WHICH require her flip

She is town.

What does that tell you about Arthur? I'd like to know so I can possibly update my reads before my flip.

[MiniDeathStar]

Do you seriously expect me to survive much longer? I don't expect me to survive much longer.

[MiniDeathStar]

If I do, it would be scum saving me for the last mislynch.

[MiniDeathStar]

Yes, inspector, imagine I left the dance now and flipped town, and please tell me what you'd think of Arthur in that case.

[MiniDeathStar]

I don't recall having any sort of friendly interactions with Arthur? He's been snarling at me since pretty much the beginning of the game. Did any of it look like scum-on-scum distancing to you?

[MiniDeathStar]

Like, I'm not sure I understand. You seemed to imply my alignment was *vital* for your reads, but if he's town "you guess" either way, I'm not sure what you're onto.

It kind of sounds like you just want me off the

island

dance floor.

[MiniDeathStar]

I dont scumread him
But he's got me worrying both by PoE and a feeling I'm being played

Obviously i want mds dead before because its part of why i think im being played

This doesn't exactly compute.

[MiniDeathStar]

After I flip town, please powerlynch Kagami and the smith pair.

And please don't ignore Gamma's reads either.

[MiniDeathStar]

VOTE: Ser pair
This guy is either the most petty person ever or is scum either way he can die.

I like Maria. Can we be friends?

[MiniDeathStar]

@Arthur:

You're severely misunderstanding (misinterpreting?) my stance on my pair's eviction. I've already said it's a foregone conclusion. I'd rather it happen sooner rather than in the endgame. Just please stop going for low-hanging fruit after we both flip town and go get the rather obvious scum that everybody is null or townreading for some mindboggling reason.

[MiniDeathStar]

VOTE: Jester-Pair

VOTE: Shadow Pair

VOTE: Gamma pair

VOTE: jester pair

VOTE: gamma

VOTE: No Lynch

That's a lot of hollow votes, and they all happen to be on the safest wagons of the day. The Shadow vote in 1622 is especially interesting because Dunn said Kagami was allegedly townreading that pair at the time.

The town-shadow explanation there is that he finds Cerb's behavior odd and was poking at oddities without really thinking through the implications of them, which weighs against the probability that scum-shadow was poking at him in an effort to appear townish and did so in a very clumsy way. I don't think it's quite the smoking gun Parama is making it out to be, but meh.

That was a pretty bad sheeping on the Shadow case and pinged me right away. Funny thing is she had been calling him scummy for a while at that point but not actually voting him.

I still don't like jester's early play and I don't have any terribly fuzzy feeling about MDS either. I think scum-MDS would probably have held out for just a bit, but if there was already a pre-established pairing plan, that may have itself looked suspicious. Jester's "In fact I know you do, therefore my question should be: are you brave enough?" bit makes a show of saying "I'm totes going to be sorting you (because I am town)," which is counterproductive to any real attempt to establish a read. I'm treating 17 as a joke, but I find it strange that no one jumped on that. It's exactly the sort of low-hanging-fruit comment that usually attracts a scumread nibble. I'm also concerned that pretty much everyone had jester/mds as some level of scumread, but they didn't get any real attention at dance-start.

I kind of wish I'd noticed this part earlier because that's literally the same sort of nitpicking that made me scumread Jester in the beginning and mhsmith in the middle of Yesterday. FYI: I admitted pre-dance that Jester can read me like an open book. The "brave enough" was obviously a joke playing on that. We were scum together recently and he noticed I was scum before even looking at his role PM. Like literally 2 pages into the game.


Regardless, Kagami's reads started looking suspiciously similar to Dunn's at that point and I voiced my concern, which Dunn agreed with. Then, this happened:

@Whoever mentioned read-cloning: my internalization is that dunn's reads followed mine, with mismatches as to who was scummy but general agreement on which pairs were likely to include scum.

"Whoever mentioned my read-cloning" was Dunn. Hi.
Does anyone seriously buy that explanation? Dunn scumreads my pair, so does she. Dunn scumreads Shadow, so does she. Dunn scumreads Gamma, so does she. Dunn thinks Vedith is town, she changes her mind and says he's town after having called him scum. No, Dunn's reads definitely didn't follow Kagami's, it was the opposite.

Before accusing Kagami in the village thread, I asked Jester in private something like (paraphrasing)...

Mini:

Is Dunn easy to fool? I think Kagami's either pocketing him or blindly sheeping his reads (because she *is* transparently agreeing with him)

And he said no, Dunn's a great player as either alignment, so I figured she'd be the one sheeping Dunn and I was right.

By the way Kagami, what happened to this?

I would be shocked if gamma and shadow are both town, I'm just unsure who should leave first, since one pair being scum somewhat implies the other town. Part of me wants to channel our charming mod, who would probably just want to lynch them all and let the mod sort them out.

HS, I think it's jester-gamma-?, though I don't disagree that shadow pair deserves death regardless of alignment.

Gamma's town. What does that make of Shadow? I thought your townread on that pair depended on Gamma being scum, but you said you'd vote them out "regardless of alignment". Why are you no-lynching right now?

I think we should just flip a scummo and work from there.

VOTE: No Lynch

Like, feel free to vote me off, but when you see I'm town, this is the lady you need to start looking at. And that includes you, Dunn.

[MiniDeathStar]

Nice try Kagami, but I've been calling you scum since forever ago. You can't accuse me of nitpicking and pulling out "superficially scummy" quotes.

[MiniDeathStar]

Sooo what if we *do* both flip town? Who's the scum then?

[MiniDeathStar]

If Maria + Shadow are both town, I'm seriously considering HS as scum, too.

[MiniDeathStar]

This is what's probably going to happen. Maria + Shadow get voted off today, both town. Intermission, Nahdia + Cerb booted. Both town. Second dance, Jester and I get voted off (or leave). Both town. 4 pairs left, with 3 scum, and town has to lynch correctly 3 times. Considering how you've all been playing so far, that would be a literal miracle. So, good luck. We're all going to need it.

[MiniDeathStar]

Btw, my votes have been great.

[MiniDeathStar]

No, I don't think you are all scum. But I believe Shadow is a very convenient scapegoat. Maria's townreading him and I trust her. Jester's townreading him and I trust him a hell of a lot more than I trust you HS. Both Maria and Jester have played with Shadow before. Have you?

I trust Parama but she's too deadset on the incriminating scumslip and isn't considering other possibilities. As for Arthur, his reads just suck, period.

Vedith's reads sucked, too. He was totally wrong about Gamma and he shared a PT with em. He called me scum, too. How am I supposed to trust any of his other reads?

[MiniDeathStar]

Lmao Maria. ♥

[MiniDeathStar]

Jester 100. Mini 85. I commented on Gamma's flip at #157. What's the point of this question, again?

[MiniDeathStar]

What if we leave the dance?

[MiniDeathStar]

I'm being serious though. Half the town obviously has some level of scumread on us, and I don't think anybody *alive* is considering us town-town, but we aren't getting enough votes. The mafia are saving us for the final mislynch.

[MiniDeathStar]

Yeah, good luck to whichever town couple gets stuck with 3 scum couples in the lylo.

[MiniDeathStar]

Exactly what do you think is going to happen after we no-lynch?

[MiniDeathStar]

All no-lynch is going to do is make mafia kill the IC pair sooner rather than later. Last time I checked nobody was scumreading them, so we get literally no info from their flip, and we don't get any of their reads either.

[MiniDeathStar]

No Lynch [2] - Kagami, mhsmith0

Does it surprise anyone that these people in particular are behind the no-lynch fad? It doesn't surprise me.

P. Edit: I wrote Cerberus off as town really early and I haven't had any reason to distrust him since. I'm about 90% certain he's town. Why does it matter though? I'm positive the scum will boot them because they're never getting lynched, and the longer they stay the more info we can get out of them.

I shouldn't have to explain why no-lynch is a bad idea, it's just so obviously anti-town that the only explanation why *you* Smith would be pushing it, is that you're scum.

[MiniDeathStar]

I'm pretty sure if scum don't boot Cerberus they'll autolose. Literally all we need to win the game is *one* pair that we all agree is town-town, then lynch everyone else.

[MiniDeathStar]

MDS everyone wooooooooooo what is logic

I shouldn't have to explain why no-lynch is a bad idea, it's just so obviously anti-town that the only explanation why *you* Smith would be pushing it, is that you're scum.

I'm pretty sure if scum don't boot Cerberus they'll autolose. Literally all we need to win the game is *one* pair that we all agree is town-town, then lynch everyone else.

What are you on about? Those were responses to very different statements.

[MiniDeathStar]

What's the point to keep repeating that Kagami is scum with mhsmith when literally nobody is having a word of it?

[MiniDeathStar]

I am so seriously tempted to leave just so people would stop calling me scum and focus on the actual scum.

[MiniDeathStar]

What's wrong with AtE'ing? I always AtE. I AtE irl all the time, it usually gets me what I want. :<

Seriously though, I'm just frustrated of having to repeat myself. I genuinely want to leave, the only thing stopping me is knowing how everyone (and esp. Jester) would skin me alive post-game for it.

[MiniDeathStar]

@Parama:

Not just scumreading me, but literally ignoring everything I say unless it's addressed to them OR they want to use it as evidence to back their scumreads. Otherwise it's like I barely even exist. I'm wondering what, short of me becoming conftown, will get people to bloody think for a moment that Kagami/mhsmith might actually probably maybe be mafia?

Oh what am I saying, even if I were conftown they'd still dismiss me because then Jester is the scum who's pocketed me and feeding me bad reads. Of course.

*sighs*

I think I should just shut up. That's definitely my preferred alternative to cynicism and yelling obscenities.

[MiniDeathStar]

Ugh, sorry, I didn't expect to have another meltdown in front of everyone. Forget I said anything.

[MiniDeathStar]

I've also been paying attention to her reads somewhat and I haven't seen any off notes from her in terms of the pushes she's been making. even the more esoteric reads like MDS/Jester potentially being a scum pair came off as reasonable to me.

[MiniDeathStar]

I mean, you're literally trusting the mafia and her reads. Isn't that the literal definition of pocketing?

[MiniDeathStar]

I'd be really really cautious of trusting someone solely based on personal meta. People change and adapt from game to game, especially large theme games with unusual mechanics are supposed to be confusing and make people improvise. I'm astonished how everybody is so easy to trust their friends when I myself thought for a while that mine was scum.

[MiniDeathStar]

No, you sheep mine.

[MiniDeathStar]

Can somebody remind me why *I* am scum, again?

[MiniDeathStar]

Sucks that of the 4 people who I know can read me accurately, 1 is dead and forgotten, 1 is scum, 1 is my lover and 1 has been totally useless this game.

[MiniDeathStar]

And it sucks even more how off the mark the rest of you are.

[MiniDeathStar]

VOTE: mhsmith0

[MiniDeathStar]

I don't understand how you people can't distinguish between genuine frustration and AtE.

[MiniDeathStar]

Hi guys I'm here to be useless.

MDS I'm sorry, could you in one sentence tell me your read on your partner?

I'm about 85% confident he's town.

[MiniDeathStar]

@MDS: can you explain why you weren't voting for me yesterday but are doing so rn? What changed in between

I shouldn't have to explain why no-lynch is a bad idea, it's just so obviously anti-town that the only explanation why *you* Smith would be pushing it, is that you're scum.

and when you voted me? I can't tell if this is a delayed "I've lost all patience with smith" (i.e. it's the same case as yesterday but you just hadn't been voting then for whatever reason), or if somehow my question to you last night set you off, or something else. Clarify?

Nothing really, I still think you're scum, just Kagami is *slightly* less scum than you now (after pieguyn's explanation). +I don't think her wagon would get much support.

[MiniDeathStar]

MDS was shading me, made a number of posts afterwards, and only today did she throw down a vote, and she isn't really pushing it with any conviction currently.

Conviction I kind of lost my conviction this game between having to hammer scumreads into people's heads and having to defend myself against vague accusations on my lover.

[MiniDeathStar]

But hey smith, the fact you only grace us with attention after a vote appears on you kind of says a lot.

[MiniDeathStar]

2606: Sorry, make that "vote or FoS"*. Doesn't really change much. Your entrance and engagement with me coinciding with my vote just stood out too much for me to not notice.

2607: Umm, no, I voted you because you dropped lower than Kagami in the scum meter. Which I explained. Does that clear things up now?

[MiniDeathStar]

Smith, I watched you when you replaced me in Making Friends and Enemies and you were so much more involved with solving the game, even under severe pressure. Now, you're barely being pressured at all and you still spend what feels like a disproportionate amount of time defending yourself. That's in addition to everything I've said about you up to now.

Like, you're either REALLY out of your depth right now, or a super transparent scum. There's no other way I can explain your behaviour.

[MiniDeathStar]

Did Smith just fall one level further down the scumpile for everyone, or was it just for me? I felt like that jab at inspector was incredibly far-fetched.

It's probably just you, but the inspector WK is interesting.

After I expressed suspicion.

Oh I just figured out WK means whiteknighting. Lmao I'm slow.

MhSmith, you gave me your walls of text explaining why townies make careless mistakes a lot more than wolves, and why digging into those instead of analysing votes, stances and reads is something a wolf would attempt. So I thought you were bullshitting us. My scumread on you has nothing to do with my read on inspector or Arthur.

Yes, townies make careless mistakes more than wolves. But IS is representing this as an intentional process, not a careless mistake. So that's not really a relevant defense. Is it possible that he's a townie who actually believes waht he's saying, or that he's a townie simply too proud to admit a fuckup? Sure. But it's also entirely possible that he's a wolf that is struggling to defend what he's done.

What's your scumread on me based on again?

That's part of a conversation, still about my scumread on you.

@MhSmith: I just thought it was suspicious that you latched onto that when so much stuff has happened that you could have analysed instead. I saw it and I thought he was derping. I was wondering why you didn't give him the benefit of the doubt and instead looked for something more substantial to bring up. It looked opportunistic to me.

Besides, I'm confident in your ability to easily make out pretty much anything to be a scumslip so I'm not going to trust you on that particular thing. Sorry. When you get to casing people based on readonomics and wagonomics, then we can talk.

I basically latched onto it because I was here and it happened. Like I said, will be re-reading other stuff later. Derp is possible too, but that's not what immediately came to mind, especially when he admitted that he knew full well Nahdia was the IC. It looked like the imitation of a town process, by asking a question that looks useful at a cursory glance but that is actually just busywork.

I also don't really buy much into "scumslips" for the most part. My scum-hunting tends to be more behavioral, as well as data-driven stuff like wagonomics (though obviously you can't get much there before flips).

Still part of a conversation about my scum read.

VOTE: Gamma

This flip provides most info right now.

Townslip

explain?

This one I can acknowledge, although it was pretty glaring by itself.

This feels like a rerun of this game. ISO Jester there and tell me if you still think he's scum.

@mds:
So it looks like you hydrad with jester as scum at
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=69331
(That ones actually over btw, the one you referenced isn't, please don't discuss ongoing games)
So you ought to have an unusually fresh appreciation of his scum game. What exactly strikes you as being different here? Jester talked about why he trd you but I don't think I've seen the reverse.

This one I can acknowledge, too.

All no-lynch is going to do is make mafia kill the IC pair sooner rather than later. Last time I checked nobody was scumreading them, so we get literally no info from their flip, and we don't get any of their reads either.

This is an actual argument against no lynching.

That said, how certain are you about cerb being town? "Nobody was scumreading them" may be true, but there's a difference between "they're not a popular suspect" and "I agree with them not being a popular suspect", and skimming your iso it looks like you state a TR there more than you really discuss why you have a TR there.

This was me interjecting and you responding.

No Lynch [2] - Kagami, mhsmith0

Does it surprise anyone that these people in particular are behind the no-lynch fad? It doesn't surprise me.

P. Edit: I wrote Cerberus off as town really early and I haven't had any reason to distrust him since. I'm about 90% certain he's town. Why does it matter though? I'm positive the scum will boot them because they're never getting lynched, and the longer they stay the more info we can get out of them.

I shouldn't have to explain why no-lynch is a bad idea, it's just so obviously anti-town that the only explanation why *you* Smith would be pushing it, is that you're scum.

It obviously matters whether Cerb is town because if he's not, then someone else is getting shot, and that is in itself potentially interesting (and the data about "the pair that scum wanted dead instead of Nahdia-Cerb") is probably better to be outed earlier rather than later). Like if you're lock certain that Cerb is town, then yes, that's very likely going to be the NK, and we might as well get a bit more data before they die. But if you're NOT sure that cerb is town, then the NK gets more interesting, and the "well clearly we need to push back the NK" argument fails.

As far as explaining goes, you should always explain things. In this case, the argument against no lynching hinges on the presumption that cerb is town. In which case, it's probably worth examining that assumption to make sure it's correct, as opposed to just writing it off.

More responding to my scumread on you.

mhsmith is getting more townpoints. i wish he'd post less setup spec though, that's like 90% of his iso :^)

Hey, I'm sure it's under 50% by now

I'd end setup talk at all if I was confident that no one else would game throw by suiciding, but since I'm not, it'll continue popping up.

I'm also a bit unsure about MDS's engagement with the NL discussion.

I shouldn't have to explain why no-lynch is a bad idea, it's just so obviously anti-town that the only explanation why *you* Smith would be pushing it, is that you're scum.

seems to imply that this is something she cares about, AND that it's a valid basis for suspicion of me, but her push on this idea being important and the push on me for disagreeing with her both kinda dropped off, and I'm not really sure why.
@MDS: discuss?

More talking about my suspicion on you.

So that's... 2/8 posts that weren't directly involved with my scumread on you. The other big stack of your posts goes towards your scumread on inspector... which was nitpicking at its finest.

No, that really isn't arguing in your favour, Smith.

PS It's actually kinda funny you're making the inactivity case on me given that I was basically mislynched in that game almost entirely due to inactivity (with a side of trans strongarming it out of OMGUS, as well as lol masons). What makes you think that activity is AI for me?

I wasn't talking specifically about activity, I was talking about what portion of your activity is involved with solving the game. It feels like it's a lot less than your efforts at self-preservation.

[MiniDeathStar]

@MDS:
PPS http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
was my iso in that game. Just re-skimming, it looks like I wasn't really doing much of anything for well over a full week (and that's after my sub in); my content only really starts to increase notably on Nov 14. So do you actually think I was good on content pre 11/14, or if not, then given explicit knowledge that periods of low activity is well within my town game, why do you think that my lower activity level this game is AI instead of just null?

That game was you being quality over quantity (on Day 2 anyway). This game I'm not seeing either from you.

[MiniDeathStar]

Is the scum afraid of joining my wagon or what? Why am I still talking here?

[MiniDeathStar]

Um, Cerb, I'm not exactly a newb but I don't have much recent experience. I should read as either obvtown or obvscum.

[MiniDeathStar]

Well I can't really defend him since most of his game has been in our PT. I just think he's town.

Jester, come here and persuade them you're not scum pls.

[MiniDeathStar]

I'll get back to you on that if he doesn't, I need to make dinner.

[MiniDeathStar]

Well, what in the PT is particularly convincing?

This is about my townread, right? I just doublechecked, I acknowledged in post #51 that all people who still thought he was scum were the people who thought *I* could be scum, too, and whose reads I knew sucked. Also Vedith thought he was town and I know Vedith can read Jester accurately.

Then he did some scumhunting on Dunn/Kagami/Arthur which I thought was genuine, and commented on mhsmith. He also asked me about Gamma. Other than that, he's adopted my fatalistic attitude to a degree and occasionally gloated about Human Sequencer's expression after we both flip town, which I thought was also genuine. There's also the fact he keeps 'testing' me every now and then and doesn't blindly accept that I'm town, which I think is not what scum!Jester would do (I think he'd try to butter me up instead).

Does he explain why he didn't vote gamma? How does he re-evaluate post-flip?

#31 he said one of Gamma/Vedith may be scum, because Vedith was being more mellow than he remembered him as town and Gamma was heavy on lurking and light on content.
#35 he said they can't both be scum
#65 he said he kind of wanted to vote Gamma because he only posted IIoA
#66 he commented on Shadow and asked me about Gamma
#104 he said he needed to reread Gamma and smith
#110 he said he didn't have enough info and claimed he was going to abstain from voting if he wasn't 100% convinced
#117 he made a short case on Gamma but didn't think it was good enough
#124 he said he wanted to vote Gamma but agreed with his point on Kagami so he wasn't sure which one to vote, but said one of them was scum
#135 he asked me for some meta on scum!Gamma
#150 he started thinking Gamma was a mislynch but not scum-orchestrated
Then Gamma and Vedith left and we both facepalmed and admitted we weren't too surprised by Gamma's flip, and we agreed Vedith's reads sucked
I don't think we've talked about Gamma since.

Why does he townread parama?

Never explained, but I don't think many people have.

And what are his thoughts re:smith?

#62 he agreed with me that smith wasn't impressing
#104 he said he had to reread him
#149 he said he kind of liked smith more (forgot what context though)
#203 he said his scumreads were smith, inspector and one of {Kagami, HS}
#224 he said smith went back to more of a null

Does that satisfy your curiosity?

[MiniDeathStar]

@MDS, when did 149 happen?

Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:32 pm (GMT)

[MiniDeathStar]

Where does HS say they think jester/MDS pair is scum? Why would Jester be gloating about their expression, or mention her?

Have you been reading? She's kept repeating it for a while now.

[MiniDeathStar]

No, Smith, I don't think it's at all bizarre that both of us are pushing you. I really am not seeing the Smith from 658 here, with the wagonomics and the predictions. You were also much less defensive in that game.

Why oh why did you have to roll scum? This game would've been so much easier if you were on our side.

[MiniDeathStar]

Arthur, if you think I'm scum with smith, then help me bus him now. Thanks.

[MiniDeathStar]

Also, I really don't like Human Sequencer dropping these random townreads. If smith's town, Kagami's town, Arthur's town, then who is left to be the scum? Shadow, Jester, and? Cerberus? You?

You don't *actually* think Maria or I are scum together with our partners, do you?

[MiniDeathStar]

this is like one of the best, most insightful and most pro-town posts in the game, and you can't say he just did it for town cred.

I disagree. He just rehashed what was said before about villagers leaving vs wolves leaving.

this post is so bad

No, it's not. Even if you take the "pre-decided pairings" as an argument why we *could* be scum together, we still have less than 2% chance of actually being scum together. Not to mention since mafia have daychat, we've had plenty of time to decide what to do if we rolled scum together.

So like, please don't.

As far as your "POE" goes, exactly what's stopping scum!you from 'poe'ing your partners? Because it definitely starts to look that way. The way you've been POEing people, you're starting to run out of possible scum. Right now you're down to my pair, Shadow's pair and Cerb's pair. Just putting that out there for when you start backtracking in case one or more of us flip town/town.

[MiniDeathStar]

Fair, discard the point about POE then.

I also think it's weird that you so firmly believe Maria and Shadow are scum together, but I don't see how scum!you would benefit from taking that stance. I just think it's ridiculous.

[MiniDeathStar]

if you think this makes {you, Jester} more unlikely than any other set of two scum reads then you have no idea of how probability works

I don't.

[MiniDeathStar]

I DO NOT FIRMLY BELIEVE MARIAR AND SHADOW ARE SCUM TOGETHER
PLEASE READ

Jfc calm down. I commented on your reads list. Sorry I haven't kept track of every read that's been commented on.

[MiniDeathStar]

I can say the same about Shadow/Maria.

Although, like I said before I kind of want both my pair and Shadow/Maria gone before the LYLO. I'm really scared the scum would take advantage and use us as the final mislynch.

[MiniDeathStar]

Dunn, you literally used *my* reasons for going after Smith, but you still think I'm scum... with... him?

I can't even with people's reads this game.

Like, at this point I'm pretty sure everyone is scum and FakeGod is just trolling me in particular.

[MiniDeathStar]

Decent odds one of jester/Maria is scum btw.

Don't worry, both of us will be out before the LYLO. I'll make sure of that.

[MiniDeathStar]

I actually agree with this series of lynches, and so does Jester (at least he did, he's been away this weekend).

[MiniDeathStar]

I'm not helping you guys on our wagon though, the wagonomics would be way more valuable if I don't self-vote.

[MiniDeathStar]

Can't you guys just all agree on a wagon and vote there? Right now the VC is all over the place.

[MiniDeathStar]

dunn suddenly got really awful is nobody going to comment on that?

dunn to hs looks like, to me:
>you don't townread me
>you townread smith
>both of your pair is tunneling shadow (not even true atm)
>therefore you are scum

explain how this makes any sense at all

If I didn't know any better, I'd say he was baiting votes on your pair to see if anyone would go for the opportunistic wagon.

But he really, really doubled down on it.

So I don't know.

[MiniDeathStar]

Just saying we only have 2 mislynches left.

[MiniDeathStar]

Umm Smith I read it exactly as "no way this is happening in our universe".

[MiniDeathStar]

And? Other than "here's a factual statement about the game" what are you trying to get at w this?

Yes, that if you're planning a 3-fold series of lynches and none of the first two yield scum, something needs to ping you.

Umm Smith I read it exactly as "no way this is happening in our universe".

Such a weird way of phrasing it if so. Like I'd have said "I will literally never stop laughing" or the like in that spot instead of the jumping off a cliff bit.

Not really? It's sort of a bet, like "I swear I will eat my shoe if this happens". Not sure where you're going with that anyway. It's like, such a superficial thing to latch onto that I'm tempted to post Mr Fantastic again. You're not getting any town credit by FOSing your lover now, just so we're on the same page.

[MiniDeathStar]

mds/jester needs to die tomorrow hory shet this is horrible

We can die now. With pleasure. Your face afterwards will be so worth it.

[MiniDeathStar]

@mhsmith:

Yes, that's exactly what I'm thinking you were gunning for. Town credit for FOSing pie, then "pie is town" after Maria/Shadow flip town.

Not impressed that you transferred to that wagon either. Did Jester suddenly stop looking that lynchable, or just not scumvenient enough to lynch us *now*?

[MiniDeathStar]

Like, seriously, everyone who thinks either Jester or I are scum should vote us now. Preferably with a short summary of their FOS/reasoning/etc. Then it's intermission time and you'll have plenty of opportunity to re-evaluate your reads.

[MiniDeathStar]

Ummm. The rush? None at all. I just don't feel like continuing this any longer. I've totally lost any sort of motivation to defend myself *or* Jester, and I can't make people believe the wolves are where I'm saying they are until Jester is confirmed town.

That's the rush.

[MiniDeathStar]

Yes, that's what I meant Arthur, which is why I'm not liking these chain wagon projects people are theorycrafting up.

Never mind that now.

Do you still think I'm scum? If so, vote me already.

[MiniDeathStar]

Fine. VOTE: Maria/Shadow. I'm putting you guys out of this misery.

Maria is still my favourite person here though.

(besides Jester)

[MiniDeathStar]

Shadow has a point btw, Kagami also vanished once the pressure on her loosened up.

[MiniDeathStar]

1. He didn't mention anything about Kagami "also vanishing once the pressure on her loosened up". You literally just made that up on the spot.

He did draw my attention to her though. That's what I meant by "has a point". The other part was my thoughts, but it happens to be true.

2. Kagami was never near the pressure Shadow was, not has she went from hyper posting to 0 posting. Comparing both of them is extremely weird, their cases are nothing alike.

Um, no, I disagree. I might remember it wrong but I'm pretty sure Kagami did start hyperposting after a few people started suspecting her. Then I directed attention to Smith and she winked out of existence again.

3. He has done almost no scumhunting or given reason for his Kagami scumread. Literally just quoted your case on her.

I wish he were the only one who fit that profile.

4. I already told inspector this when he said something about Shadow might just be an arrogant townie, and I said that if he was actually an arrogant townie then he wouldn't just get aggressive towards the people pushing him. He would have more scumreads, aggressively push more wagons/people for reactions, work with what's in the thread, etc. He's already show glimpses that he's extremely competent, yet has mostly just played the too scummy to be scum card and once he dodges his lynch he does nothing.

Can't argue with that though.

[MiniDeathStar]

I haven't read any of the last 6-7 pages and I've no idea what the VC is. I just checked this page briefly and saw MDS voting me which is a bad vote.

I don't agree that it's a bad vote. Accept it Shadow, both our pairs have to go. Which one goes first only depends on people's choice. But we really need to go because literally everyone has some sort of scumread on us and it's blocking the game's progress.

[MiniDeathStar]

Damn, here I go AtE'ing again.

[MiniDeathStar]

I swear I'm not doing it on purpose.

[MiniDeathStar]

Fwiw I kidna believe you, still not really sure on jester tho.

Spoiler: :wink:

[MiniDeathStar]

I can feel Shadow's hurt feelings of betrayal right through the screen.

I guess I'm not the only one who's appealing to emotion here.

Or maybe I'm just way too emotional.

[MiniDeathStar]

Wow, Smith. Maria was so right about you. You really are an emotionless robot.

[MiniDeathStar]

Also, when did Maria tell you that?

Like ten pages ago?

[MiniDeathStar]

UNVOTE: Shadow

I don't think Shadow is the scum. I recognise a lot of my own attitude in how he behaves.

[MiniDeathStar]

VOTE: Kagami

This lady should stop lurking in the Shadows and come back on the scene.

[MiniDeathStar]

Is there anyone besides HS who's townreading Smith?

[MiniDeathStar]

I told you he's an emotionless robot.

[MiniDeathStar]

I mean, girls tend to do that when someone devours their grandma?

[MiniDeathStar]

HS, Arthur, smith and Parama will never unvote Shadow.

My vote on Smith would bring them at 4.

We will need 4 more votes out of {Shadow, Jester, Cerb, pie, Kagami, Nahdia}.

That would probably be the most forcefully dragged wagon I'd have ever seen on mafiascum, if it pulls through.

VOTE: mhsmith/pieguyn

WAAAAH MAKE THE MEAN MAN GO AWAY MINI ;-;

I'm tryyyying ;-;

[MiniDeathStar]

At this point I think there's more people townreading Shadow than you, Smith.

[MiniDeathStar]

There's something I'm wondering and I'm not sure if it's due to a playstyle difference or personality difference or alignment difference or what have you.

I've been a wagon since pretty much the beginning and at some point I thought fine, I'm never surviving to endgame, and that's probably a good thing because I'm a convenient lynch. Even though I'm townreading my lover, I've been OK with being voted because it would narrow the suspect pool.

Jester, Maria and Shadow have adopted pretty much same attitude as me. Which I think is totally understandable.

But Smith's wagon has been popular for almost as long, and so far he's been incredibly resistant to it, even though he's not townreading his lover. Where does this survivalism come from? Do you think it's scum-motivated? Or too invested in the game? Or some combination of ego (to not be mislynched as town) and pride (he believes he can solve the game for town)? I just don't understand where all that resilience comes from. On one hand I think it's super admirable and I know I'll never be as good a player as that. But on the other hand it does make me a bit uncomfortable because it just feels *unnatural* to me.

[MiniDeathStar]

If you actually go through what I've done wrt the people on me, I've been making an effort to sort them and the validity/honesty of their pushes.

Smith has a point there. I have to concede that to him.