Mini 1859: D&D Curse of Strahd Mafia - Game Over

[Shaziro]

What if we try to break the game and go elsewhere?

Rocks fall and everyone dies. Also the woods might be dangerous if my recollection of the curse of strand is correct.

[Shaziro]

Can we not spoil what happens?

Given that heading into areas of high danger is more likely to be bad for us than not, I don't give a damn about spoilers.

The cemetery may be a good choice.

[Shaziro]

Also the woods might be dangerous if my recollection of the curse of strand is correct.

I'm tempted to do the woods.

Giant tree and blights. Cemetery might give us info.

Pedit- There wasn't one of those in Curse of Strahd.

[Shaziro]

Might also give an edge Dunn.

[Shaziro]

There is an artifact that defo belongs in the cemetery, several in fact. Also info about the world/the prime dockhead himself, Strahd "definitelynotdracula" zarovich

[Shaziro]

VOTE: Cemetary

It definitely will be at midnight. That's when the information comes too.

[Shaziro]

Exploring the woods is like, -really- bad idea in Ravenloft. The cemetaries are actually safe, and the cemetary in the starting area is very important. Add to that the fact that about 5 of the artifacts belong in a cemetary, and almost all of them -could- be in one...Maybe just trust the guy who has very recently played Curse of Strahd.

[Shaziro]

Among potential dangers of the woods are scarecrows (Yes, they're in the woods), werewolves, killer trees, blights (which are like, slightly smaller than trees killer plants), wolves (which are controlled by Strahd), Ravens (some of which are controlled by Strahd), and vampire spawn. The potential positives are....wereravens that might be friendly if we don't fuck up.

[Shaziro]

Christ alive read what you're quoting. "Semi-randomized". The Amulet of St. Markovia (Not sure that's the right name?) might not be in the graveyard outside the Abbot's monastery, but it'll probably be in a graveyard, given that it was buried with the saint. Same goes for the other items that were all buried with people.

[Shaziro]

I love your knowledge of it, btw. Keep it coming and tell us all of the things. I'm big on fantasy RPGs too, but it was a bit before my time so missed it, and haven't gotten it digital yet. Dark Sun series is priority, but tooooo many RPGs (omg) in my backlog to even start to tackle that one yet.

Curse of Strahd is a premade adventure for D&D 5th edition and it's an absolute blast, if you're after pen and paper then go for it ASAP.

Paranoia about "oh yeah let's just follow this guy to the cemetary where the MAIN NAMED BADGUY OF THE ENTIRE GAME is located"

"the information comes at midnight there, right before I stab you in the face"

Why would Strahd be in the cemetery? Because he's a vampire? He lives in Castle Ravenloft, the big intimidating one that everyone is afraid of. The -information- if you want me to be more specific now that I'm not phoneposting, is to do with the spirits of those who were brought here by Strahd before and died in some way or another. I can say they aren't violent but I don't want to ruin the effect of it honestly, it's that strong of a scene.

Do you have a favorite RPG, shaz? anyone?

Planescape Torment, Fallout 1+2 for me

Pen and Paper RPG? I love 3.5 and 5th edition D&D. Videogame? I love Fallout 3 and New Vegas, and 4 was alright. Big fan of Oblivion and Skyrim. the Zelda games are wonderful too.

scum PM could say "gain an extra kill N1 if you get the adventurers into the cemetary D1"

who fucking knows

I'm a paranoid player

Honestly paranoia isn't a -bad- thing. In Ravenloft, Strahd has control of a lot of ravens and -every- wolf. All of them. As my character said when we played, "HE OWNS ALL THE RAVENS". (He was a Druid, this was very significant to him as such.) The Vistaani (Effectively magical gypsy stereotypes) often work for him too, but they keep it a secret. Hell, some of the -normal- people work for him. Many of the people in the world of Ravenloft are simply generated by Strahd's mind, figments of his imagination, that he created for his own enjoyment. Others are real, and have souls. Those souls get recycled, but the ones without souls are often entirely under Strahd's command, and many of the ones -with- souls are. Basically, not only should we be worried about the scum in our midst, but NPCs should be dealt with carefully too if that becomes an issue.

[Shaziro]

I think it's a bad idea with little chance for reward and high chance for danger, but given that you seem to have a basis in classic videogame RPGs I'm willing to guess it's just because in most RPGs like that, the woods are the first place to go, and cemeteries are where the undead jump you. In Curse of Strahd, you only get jumped by undead in the cemetery if you are specifically in Strahd's castle and fall into that one corpse pit thing.

[Shaziro]

Don't threaten me with a good time, dreal. Creature is being somewhat active, I like that. Lurking Creature is scummy Creature.

[Shaziro]

If it makes you feel better I will gladly, if it comes to us having to choose somebody to die to some horrible monster that for some reason si ready to kill us right off the bat, volunteer!




...Vedith. I will volunteer Vedith.

[Shaziro]

Huh. And I thought they said you can take the pine out of the woods, but you can't take the woods out of the pine. Haha. Ha....I'll see myself out.

[Shaziro]

I mean, I was just making a joke because he and I haven't been fond of one another. I doubt that we'd vote somebody to die by monster unless it was flavor for the normal day's lynch.

[Shaziro]

He hasn't done anything to justify a policy lynch so far as I've seen.

[Shaziro]

Dreal, what is your reservation against the shops? Or are they just not as appealing as the woods?

[Shaziro]

dreal, are you just choosing based on fluff, then? If so, you should go by my actual knowledge of the fluff, no?

[Shaziro]

Interesting. Okay.

[Shaziro]

Your better inclination tends to serve you well, or you going against it does?

[Shaziro]

Okay. That did not happen in the game. This may get bad. Drealm, is your gut vote taking sheep?

[Shaziro]

Alright, encounters in cemetaries I know of. If we for some reason cut open a scarecrow, there's a thing in that and it makes wights attack, luckily wights were nerfed in 5e. There's also the corpse pit thing in Castle Ravenloft, but I doubt we're there. Sooo...if this party has a paladin, get in the middle of the group, share that saving throw aura goodness! (Please don't roleclaim if you're a paladin this is a joke because of d&d)

[Shaziro]

OH! I was -on- it! I guess mod was bullshitting us about the Strahd thing?

P-edit: Ok I know what it does in game, but I don't know that I want scum to know. I can say it is a good thing, not a bad.

[Shaziro]

Wait. It might be a bad. It's one of three things and two are good.

[Shaziro]

It isn't a vig shot. None of the items it might be are a vig shot.

[Shaziro]

We really should wait for more players to come around, yeah. I'll occupy myself trying to figure out what mafia-effect the three things it might be could have.

[Shaziro]

Why are you assuming scum know all the paths?

Why are you assuming this item is good?

Informed Minority, and makes sense for the game mechanic.

I know what the item is, and it benefits my class well if i'm right as to what it does.

Ravens?

[Shaziro]

depraven craven ravens?!

If he and I are on the same track he'll get it.

[Shaziro]

Yeah, he got it. Alright, makes sense. I definitely think it's nerfed, if you get me. There's no way we'd get -that- much this early, you know? Unless more gets unlocked later...

I can probably use it equally well, if it's that.

[Shaziro]

-Also- I want to point out that this thing -totally- belonged here and I was right so I'm gonna do my little nerdy victory lap where I do that one weird dance.

[Shaziro]

I'm guessing because he doesn't like that we're being cryptic. A specific power would have to be representative of the item, I'm thinking maybe it's main central theme and use.

[Shaziro]

Hey Jason, what if the necklace could kill the player holding it?

It doesn't. I think Jason and I have pretty much nailed down what it does, it's a positive thing.

P-edit: Uh, have you even read what we've been saying? We specifically said it probably doesn't do exactly what it said in game. Read before you throw shade.

[Shaziro]

If you know the flavor, there is one class that can -definitely- benefit most from it, and two classes I can think of that'd get mild benefit. Question for you Jason, which edition are you more versed in?

[Shaziro]

Good. That's the edition this DM is running.

[Shaziro]

Okay, so we don't lose items if a person dies, but if it's a night item and the person isn't guarded and dies, we still don't get to use it. We need to be careful-ish still.

[Shaziro]

Let's give the item to a lynchbait guy.

...........why?

[Shaziro]

A: You've literally just told them why they should tho
B: If somebody is probably going to get lynched, that means they're scummy, so they shouldn't be given nice things? You know, in case they're scum?

[Shaziro]

Let me ask the mod a thing, and then I can answer that question.

[Shaziro]

Ok, I asked the mod if we could willingly hand over items without dying. We cannot. That said, I'd take the thing if you feel that's the best option, but I know I am not the class that gets the super biggest use out of the item in game. That said, that effect would be -very- powerful, and the only two others I've seen hint at their classes were not, so far as I could tell, hinting at the right class. Do with that as you will.

[Shaziro]

Ok. some thoughts after my catch up. Jazzon too many assumptions at this point are not useful for town it is good to have your own idea but being locked on them with so many things being uncertain doesn't help.

I think there is a chance some items may be more useful or unlock an ability for a certain role but I doubt every item we get is designed like that.

Now the thing is who we give the item. The best option would be for someone we trust but at this point it is really hard to have a strong town read or anything close imo and most of us would want to get the item just because it is nice to explore the mechanics of the game and stuff. For now I volunteer as a guinea pig to get the item and we can agree to openly say if there is a role specific restriction or that kind of stuff so we can make more informed decision on the objects we get later in the game. That's most of my ideas at this point.

Ok, but this item in particular would -definitely- be the one to have special effects for a class. I take it he's played Curse of Strahd and got it, so he knows. The problem is, we don't want the person shouting out their damn class, for fairly obvious reasons.

[Shaziro]

You think they will be told "If you are X class, this happens" if they aren't X class?

[Shaziro]

Definitely not the way it works in D&D, and I don't think it'd be unlikely to be secret, given that the mod has admitted this game will be somewhat bastard.

[Shaziro]

VOTE: Pine I like this idea, I think.

[Shaziro]

I'd be fine with Pine, Jason, myself, or maybe Dreal. Dreal, I think, is close to the right match but not quite. I don't like Kuror's "I'll bet if there is anything special, we'll probably get told, trust me to tell you what it says" bit. I was in Undertale mafia, were some items had hidden benefits if certain people got them, and those benefits were kept secret until the person got them, when it was then revealed to said person.

[Shaziro]

I'd be fine with Pine, Jason, myself, or maybe Dreal. Dreal, I think, is close to the right match but not quite. I don't like Kuror's "I'll bet if there is anything special, we'll probably get told, trust me to tell you what it says" bit. I was in Undertale mafia, were some items had hidden benefits if certain people got them, and those benefits were kept secret until the person got them, when it was then revealed to said person.

You are picking just certain parts of what I've said. first:

"I'll bet if there is anything special, we'll probably get told" compare to this.

Mmm due to the nature of the game it would make sense to me that the abilitys are listed even if it has class restriction. Items are recycled when someone dies after all. Plus as I said I think there is a chance some of them come with a restriction but I highly doubt there are many like that (if any).

(if any).

and

That's why I'm interested in getting as much info as possible with the D1 item. If we know it is written it is a win for us and we can work better later if it isn't then we keep going assuming there is no special requirements but a slight chance either not every item has a special requirement or it is a hidden one. That's at least my mindset at this point.

When you say I said "I'll bet if there is anything special, we'll probably get told" is a long of way from what I originally said. So it is a misrep from your part. About the second part "trust me to tell you what it says". That's perfectly normal as I also said:

I would like to get the item as I said I'm curious about the game mechanics and I would provide as much info I could for the benefit of town but I know at this point is hard to trust someone else as I know I don't.

So bottom line, if you don't share my thinking or you just don't like me getting the item that's perfectly fine but I want to know as fast as possible how much does the lore information is useful in this mafia game(because remember we are playing mafia and not D&D so the lore info may be important to a certain point but is not a straight jacket and the mod could have designed this game however he pleased.). I appreciate the knowledge you have provided and your experience in a game where the items had secret benefits but that doesn't mean this game has the same rules.

pedit: again 2 ninja posts but I will delver how it was.[/quote]
I was saying what I interpreted your statements as. You said "Given the nature of the game" but the only way you explain that idea is that items are recycled, and I don't see how that connects and makes it so secret features of items won't only be revealed to those who can make use of them. I agree with you that whoever gets the item should explain anything the town needs to know to the town, but I'm not positive that I trust you to be the one with that information. The people I listed, I am more trusting of. That said, I fully expect you to be on your own list, just as I'm on mine.

As for the game in which items had secret benefits, the mod is Clumsy, who was the other head of my hydra in that game. This is one of his first few modded games, and I believe the first with items. I am also fairly sure that Undertale Mafia was the only game he's played in that had an items system. Therefore, I think it's incredibly likely that he has drawn ideas for how to run items from that game. I also know that the item in D&D has a secret benefit only able to be used by one class, which would fit this game -very- well now that I've given it some thought, as well as other abilities that others can use. Now, I'm not the big special class, and I don't think you are either. Hell, I don't know who is, but I'm almost positive we have one given the item and common sense.

P-edit: I agree with the idea of waiting for all inputs if possible, including Kuroi.

[Shaziro]

I'd have preferred subtle.

[Shaziro]

Okay, because being subtle isn't working, let me be blunt. I looked up the Amulet of St. Markovia. It can only be attuned by clerics and paladins.

I am one of those two.

Assuming you're telling the truth, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, I'm fine with you having it. We don't need Wizards with swords and Dwarves with staves.

Hey now! Spellblades and Dwarven Druids!

[Shaziro]

No true druid will wield a metal weapon, whether or not the rules say armor but ignore weapons.

[Shaziro]

You're the one that brought up druids. I brought up dwarves, ya know, the kind that wield axes and wizards, ya know, the kind that wield staves.

My point was, if Pine is of a class that can use the item, it's better for him to have it than someone who can't. I wasn't intending to start a subclass tussle.

I'm mostly making jokes while we wait on more input, I agree that if Pine is one of those two classes like he claims, he should get it.

[Shaziro]

It's not a caster's item, Dreal. It has a few abilities, and a big one. In some versions only cleric and paladin can attune to it and use it. If there is a special effect, which I highly suspect there is, one of those two can definitely use it, one in particular of the two if we're going by the version I think we are. That said, I did say -If- he is what he claims. I don't know that asking for counterclaims would be functional, though, as if it is a fakeclaim he could just say he's the other, so either we'd have one role outed and still no clue whether or not he's lying, or two outed and one caught liar. I don't know what would be strategically best, so I'm going to look at his posts (what few there are, I know, it's early in the game so there isn't much to read) and go off that.

[Shaziro]

I'm going to

VOTE: Unvote

But only until we've got more thoughts in and players talking about this new info. Consider my vote effectively on Pine.

[Shaziro]

Wrong name, right result. He got the name from my early post pointing out that the amulet of st markovia could be a in a graveyard. The actual item of St. Markovia is a thigh bone, I was confused with a different holy symbol, as in my Curse of Strahd game we got both. Basically, Pine is on the right track.

[Shaziro]

By searching around for the wrong name, he found the right item. FoS on Dunn and Creature atm.

[Shaziro]

You re-voted for Kuror, both of which were blank votes in the first place, and earlier asked somebody else to explain their reason for giving Pine their vote. I don't like hypocrisy in games, because it's rarely a town mindset.

[Shaziro]

Shit we only have 8 hours? Well I'll VOTE: Pine

Also, Creature, you think there are 7 scum, or you want scum to vote for one of those 7?

[Shaziro]

Maybe we should preferably start with KuroiXHF.

Why? He's VLA for the weekend.

[Shaziro]

Maybe we should preferably start with KuroiXHF.

Why? He's VLA for the weekend.

Oh nvm, I have someone else in mind then.

Who?

[Shaziro]

creature,

that's the worst list if that is your lynch list after this stage

are you scum or just trying to make friends with scum?

I'm leaning town on him, he's being active. He goes quiet when he's scum.

[Shaziro]

let's just kill vedith and get his hugely antagonistic and horrible attitude out of the game

I can always get behind this idea, but he hasn't done anything particularly egregious yet. Worst is assuming he for some reason should've gotten the maguffin.

[Shaziro]

I'm down for conversation. Also, this goes to everyone, if you have any questions about the source material for this, ask away. I'll be filling y'all in on most things as they come up, but if you have any questions, go ahead.

[Shaziro]

what would you say is the biggest weakness to Strahd?

a vulnerability or something, even if it is an emotional thing

I want to know about his personality

I should go play the video games just to get a better sense...

Well, he is obsessed with Tatyana. So, getting her away from him enrages him. There's a way to free Tatyana from Ravenloft, but I won't be saying it here until it comes up because I don't want scum working to avoid it somehow. As a vampire, he is weakened by sunlight, can't enter a home unless invited in, and when killed retreats to his coffin where he can be killed by staking him through the heart within 2 hours.

Strahd is an incredibly prideful, incredibly cunning manipulator. He is a master strategist, and has had centuries of practice tormenting adventurers and normal folks in his domain. One of the first places you see in the game, the "Murder House", is basically the residence of a family who's mom and dad tried to start a cult of Strahd in order to gain his favor. He let them go way deep into it and let their lives fall apart as their minds did...then sent them a letter basically saying they were miles below him and their petty attempts to curry his favor were meaningless.

[Shaziro]

One thing I meant to get clarification on, why did you guys talk about classes being counterclaimed after pine's claim? At face value it just looked like you guys were assuming the setup was broken.

We were saying that Pine claimed being one of two classes without saying which, which would mean that even if he was neither, nobody could counterclaim effectively because it would mean that he would be able to say he was the one they didn't claim, and if both of his claimed classes claimed (which they wouldn't, because of the risk of being the only one to claim) and we lynched him for obviously lying, we would have two revealed classes which would become prime targets for scum, as both are adept at offing undead, which Strahd is.

[Shaziro]

No I understand the scum motivation (as well as the town motivation) for keeping a claim vague. What I don't understand is why you expect scum to have to wriggle around with claiming shit or would even be worried about being countered at all.

Unless you're saying he fakeclaimed one of those classes that wouldn't be safe for him to claim just to get an item that he doesn't even know does anything.

I was more pointing out that counterclaiming would be useless, so we shouldn't really expect that. If you read, you should know I voted for Pine to get the item and opted to trust him. Also, of course the item does -something-, that should be fairly obvious.

[Shaziro]

I tend to expect claims of a specific piece of fluff to lead to counterclaims if they're counter-claimable because catching a liar like that is easy scumcatching. That said, you'll notice I agree that it was pretty useless speculation, in that I went in for giving Pine the item.

Currently, my best suspects are Dunn, Creature, and SlySly. Dunn has shown to be hypocritical, which I -hate- and always think is very scummy because town really doesn't have a reason not to follow their own "rules". I also really dislike his reasoning for wanting to lynch Pine. Creature has been active, but I can't decide how much of it is just noise, and I can easily see him being purposefully more active because he knows there are people here who would call him out for scummy inactivity, given that I've nailed him on it before (ignore the fact that we lost that game because I didn't go hard enough on the fact that he was being scummily inactive). I'm back and forth on him. SlySly is only a slight lean, partly because he seems to be showing inconsistency. He says that he feels like Pine and I are showing a "slight team up", when if anything I was "teaming up" with Wazza much more in our mutual nerding over what the item was and might do, and us being cryptic. It seemed like him wanting to find a reason to throw shade, and then he turned around and found a reason to go after Jason that wasn't related to that at all, and was instead because "I don't like that he didn't want us to go elsewhere, bad tone".

P-edit: Pine, the thing is, you might be the wrong one of the two you listed, in which case the special thing wouldn't really apply to you and you probably wouldn't see it. Don't claim your specific class, but keep that in mind.

P-edit 2 Electric Boogaloo: I was here suspecting you'd give a reason after I answered your question.

[Shaziro]

You re-voted for Kuror, both of which were blank votes in the first place, and earlier asked somebody else to explain their reason for giving Pine their vote. I don't like hypocrisy in games, because it's rarely a town mindset.

Right here.

[Shaziro]

I agree, being a hypocrite on it's own isn't proof that somebody is scum. More often that not though, scum are hypocritical. So it's a good early warning. This is why he's a suspect, and I'm not calling for a Dunn lynch just yet. Also, I don't know how he could not be sure what we were voting for? It's fairly clearly described in the mod posts, and nobody else seemed particularly confused?

[Shaziro]

Also, I don't know how he could not be sure what we were voting for? It's fairly clearly described in the mod posts, and nobody else seemed particularly confused?

Well that was only one example, if you want to subscribe scum-motive to having a different thought process behind a few different votes, I'd like to know why you think that the change in process from asking why someone was voting for someone to get an item earlier on vs he himself voting later on naked couldn't possibly be a genuine trajectory brought on by ... realizations ... not giving a care ... thinking about things a little bit more.

I'm just looking to understand where you're coming from on your stances, no need to start waffling already. I will note that you not having a vote out there despite having scumreads troubles me somewhat.

I think him expecting people to give explanation for votes, but then giving votes with no explanation whatsoever is hypocritical. Do you disagree?
I think hypocrisy is a sign of scumminess. This makes him a suspect in my mind.

I don't see how any of that is waffling, I'd like you to explain what I've done that you take as waffling.

Meanwhile, like I said, they're suspects. When I form a more firm read, I'll throw my vote there. Until then, we've got a while left in this day.

[Shaziro]

Ok, but like I said, I think it's possible for town to be hypocritical too. But it's an early warning sign that I tend to heed, so when I see it, I call it out and keep my eye on that person. But I assumed you were saying that me saying it's scummy must mean I think he's scum, which just isn't true. I think that he's shown one of the early warning signs, but a false positive is possible, if that makes sense. I was trying to clarify my position on my suspicions.

[Shaziro]

...Yes. Scummy. It's a scummy thing to do. Scummy =/= Scum

And yes, I can talk for hours about the base material and whatnot. I just recently finished a Curse of Strahd campaign, and therefore the content of it is still very fresh to me. Given that this game is based in that, I figure it's kinda useful to have, and it seems like a lot of you don't know the material.

[Shaziro]

Okay so if it was scummy then can you explain why the hypocrisy (IE - change in mindset) makes more sense to come from scum?

This is the one part that you can't seem to answer.

I don't know the source material at all this decision was complete compulsion but so far I'm having fun. Cool that I missed the boring part of the game as well.

You literally agreed that you don't see a problem with thinking hypocrisy is scummy. Scum benefit from setting standards for others that they then don't have to follow because they can, for instance, make votes with no real reasoning while calling it scummy when other players do it, distracting from themselves. They could argue that others aren't active enough, expecting those people to post more effortless posts that they can then pick apart to call scumtells, while avoiding being active themselves in order to avoid giving those same tells. Setting rules for others to call them scum, and then ignoring when they break those rules is -massively- beneficial for scum. But, hypocrisy on it's own can just be normal human error and not scum trying to do the above, so it is a -warning sign-, as I've said many times. Hence, again, Dunn being a suspect.

[Shaziro]

@Dunnstral
Why do you think scum would want or could have made any influence over whether pine received the item or not? His claim is what gathered consensus for that vote mostly.

Added to this, which scum do you feel pushed him getting said item? Why aren't you voting them, or calling them out?

[Shaziro]

Why aren't you voting them, or calling them out?

Because I don't even know if pine is scum yet. If he is someone on the item wagon for him is scum.

So you want to kill him to find out if he's scum, and if he is go after people who wanted to give him the item. So...witch trial style? Either way they're dead, but you want to find out if they're a witch?

[Shaziro]

I feel as if pine gathering a bunch of votes for the item in a short time was scummy.

What claim?

He claimed wizard OR something else. Which means that he could get the most buffs from the amulet or so that's what we're all gonna assume.

Okay, you clearly didn't read closely. Re-read his soft...half...kind of...claim.

[Shaziro]

For suspecting you, Hypocritestral?

Also, now that the item is handed out and we've been told there's no special thing, I'll spill the beans. If a Cleric uses the item in the game, it has the ability to empower his Turn Undead ability, making it -very- good against Strahd and his minions. My assumption would be that it would be a one shot bulletproof against said minions/Strahd.

[Shaziro]

I'm not seeing the Persivul thing. Point out things you aren't liking?

[Shaziro]

Item owners will always be of unknown alignment to townies.

Actually, I can think of a character or three who would fit as Innocent Child.

[Shaziro]

That he googled to try and figure out the item?

[Shaziro]

Oh. Yeah, that is a problem. Pine, care to explain?

[Shaziro]

I didn't pay attention to the post, tbh. I saw googled and figured he was repeating himself.

[Shaziro]

Fantastic

?

[Shaziro]

That's what I've meant when I say he is active but I can't decide if it's all just noise to avoid being caught on his scum meta of being very quiet.

[Shaziro]

Somewhat. I feel like Pine was the wrong of the two classes. I could see it being as he said it is. Could you not?

[Shaziro]

If you recall, there was only one power of it that was class specific in Curse of Strahd for 5e. They widened it partially in order to allow for unconventional parties, while retaining the one large feature for the typically correct party.

[Shaziro]

Let me just finish.

Go do your free thought stuff in Word or something. When you're done, clean it up, and post it here.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that Creature is faking activity to avoid his meta. Time to look for potential associatives.

[Shaziro]

VOTE: Creature For now.

[Shaziro]

I feel like Pine's story has been changing a lot, and that makes me uncomfortable.

[Shaziro]

Pine, I'd be interested to see your reads list and a briefish explanation of the reads.

[Shaziro]

I don't understand wanting a competing wagon with 8 hours left, nor do I understand why that is "fine". That's dangerous games to be playing.

[Shaziro]

OK. I finished my college final, but I'm about to head out in half an hour, so I'm not sure I can contribute much today.

I feel that, I just finished my last final today and I'll be heading home tomorrow.

[Shaziro]

So Creature is just making up reads at this point. If you're trying this hard to provide lots of content so people don't scumread you for being quiet that's nice and all, but the content has to be meaningful. You're throwing out distraction flares. My vote is on scum, I think.

[Shaziro]

A: That isn't what I asked for
B: I've got my vote on you, not sure what more "giving up" you'd like me to do.

[Shaziro]

Again, not what I asked for. Instead of trying to make yourself out to be the victim of some unfair standard, try making meaningful content.

[Shaziro]

Wait we can just say things and make them true? Guys I'm an infinite shot dayvig that only gets kills on scum! Bang bang!

[Shaziro]

I highly recommend the Creature wagon, we're accepting all votes!

[Shaziro]

I really just haven't been getting any real scumpings in my gut from Persivul, as bad as that sounds, and I'm more sure of Creature. I let him get by on a "Maybe maybe not" in my newbie game despite being pretty damn sure he was scum, I'm not making the same mistake twice.

[Shaziro]

I feel like he's made some decent points, such as his criticisms of Pine's semi BP claim and of Creature's play.

[Shaziro]

I don't know Pine from Adam. Can you confirm that A: That is in line with his normal town meta and B: Persivul should know it?

I think Pine is town too, but I think the criticism is a legitimate one that I expect to come from town rather than a made up one from scum.

[Shaziro]

I feel like Pine has started to go quiet...what're you thinking at the moment, treeman?

[Shaziro]

Ok, who is currently -Townreading- Creature?

Nullreads? Please explain.

[Shaziro]

See, the thing is, I made that mistake before, and it screwed me. Well, that, and Shannon being tricky as all hell, but still.

[Shaziro]

Christ's sake if this bites me in the ass...

Let me look over Dreal.

[Shaziro]

Looking back at things, I don't really know how I feel about Dreal's read progression. I can't decide if it seems more to me like he was just trying to get reactions from the people he was pushing on, or from others. If it is from the people he is pushing on, that is towny to me, he wants to see if the person is scum by putting them under some pressure and seeing how they react. If from others, then it's him basically trying to see who he can get a lynch rolling on by gauging town. Does that make sense to anyone else?

[Shaziro]

The way his reads overall have moved. He said dunn was scummy, then I was scummy, etc. It gives a vibe of "I'm gonna make shade throwing posts until one gets really picked up on by others, and go with that", but it could easily also be him just looking at people that give him a ping and pressuring them to try and see if they scumclaim.

[Shaziro]

VOTE: Drealm

I expect you all to remember this if Creature turns out to be scum and slips by.

[Shaziro]

Because I'm switching -off- of Creature, because I'm being told that we will "get to that later", exactly the same as we did in the other game I had with the bugger.

[Shaziro]

Wait wait wait. I'm told to look over Dreal. I find something that might be scummy and, in the interest of putting my vote somewhere more productive, move it to fit that new thought. And then the person who told me to look over dreal declares Dreal a terrible wagon and tells people he's town? The fuck is going on here?

[Shaziro]

Dreal or Creature can hang. Those wagons are good wagons, tyia.

[Shaziro]

Starting a wagon and then failing to provide your own reasons lowers people's confidence in their own reasons, or in the idea that you aren't bussing. I'd like to see your case.

[Shaziro]

Because you started the wagon but won't give your reasons for thinking the person is scum, and were waiting for others to find your proof for you? It makes it look like you either didn't have a case and were just hoping that people would find some scummy parts of a town players iso, or you are bussing but weren't hoping people would actually get the wagon going too hard. If you have a case, why won't you post it?

[Shaziro]

Yeah, for somebody who has a case, you're sure afraid to share it. Waiting for VC, but if it isn't hammer I'm willing to move my vote to Jason.

[Shaziro]

Then quit being lazy and get it done.

[Shaziro]

Man, I'm way too lazy to provide any meaningful content. I'm gonna prod dodge all game. Don't vote me, I'm not being scummy I'm just being lazy. Voting me is terrible.

[Shaziro]

I can't tell if you realized I was being sarcastic and poking fun at Jason, or if you are saying that about me. Given that both of us talked items early.

[Shaziro]

What class?

[Shaziro]

So you have definitely not fully claimed.

[Shaziro]

...Wait, what the fuck. That item is only particularly useful to paladins and clerics, and the other abilites are best served to a caster of some manner. You were either lying then in order to get the item, or you're lying now in your claim.

VOTE: JasonWazza

Eldritch Knight is also -not- the archetype that would be a bodyguard. Protection is part of the basic fighter class, but the Battle Master archetype is the only one that focuses around tactics in a way that makes protection a defining feature for that archetype. You're bullshitting.

[Shaziro]

He wouldn't give him an archetype like Elritch Knight, which basically makes you a fighter that can cast spells on himself to buff up, and only give him a bodyguard ability. It doesn't fit the claim, and the fact that he didn't claim the flavor in with the role, despite earlier showing that he understands that flavor is important to this game, is bad. Add to that that he -still- hasn't given a Drealm case, and the items crap? Not gonna slide.

P-edit: So are you claiming to have known what the item did ahead of time? That effect on the item is tangentially related to what the item does in game, and is largely a stretch because of the fact that the item gives a large variety of abilities. I assume the only alternative would be that the wearer would get a bunch of JoaT abilities, and that was considered too powerful, so an alternative that suggests using more powers was made. Hence why I said it fit. You, however, are claiming to be neither a priest or a paladin. Priest can make the most use of it, paladin the second most, full casters third. You are -none- of those, by your claim.

[Shaziro]

Strahd knows of the artifacts so it is possible, but he also doesn't try to take them in the game. They are useless to him and powerful against him

[Shaziro]

He is l-2 by my count

[Shaziro]

L-2

(5) JasonWazza - Andrius, Persivul, Pine, drealmerz7, Shaziro
(3) drealmerz7 - JasonWazza, Dunnstral, Creature
(2) kuror0 - Culted, SlySly
(1) Persivul - kuror0
(1) Pine - Shaddowez
(1) Shaddowez - KuroiXHF


This is the current votecount, from the 2 votes since mod's last votecount. Creature moved from Jason to Dreal, I moved from Dreal to Jason. You and Kuror have both said you'd be willing to vote there, so decide amongst yourselves how to deal with that assuming you want to avoid hammering.

[Shaziro]

Shaz, of all the people voting Jason, you're the one I trust the least. I prefer lynching Kuror0. I don't like at all that Kuror0 is ready to switch to Jason.

I won't pretend to understand why you trust me least, but I don't really care too much so long as we lynch scum. I'd be fine with Creature, Jason, or Dreal, but I think that Jason and Dreal are the most likely bet of those at the moment, and Jason is more definitely scummy in my mind right now than Dreal.

[Shaziro]

You assume he didn't read that too?

P-edit: also reasonable

Also, you might be after Madame Eva, Sly.

[Shaziro]

Also, you might be after Madame Eva, Sly.

Pls help the flavor-illiterate out?
If it won't provide scum knowledge etc etc

Madame Eva is a vistani. Effectively the matriarch of a particular group. Finding her is vital in the RPG. She is also a fortune teller.

Shaz, any cemetery battle flavor to wow us with as twilight closes in? drealmz prophecies have me a little worried.

scum PM could say "gain an extra kill N1 if you get the adventurers into the cemetary D1"

who fucking knows

I'm a paranoid player

There is only one way this could be a battle, and we would probably not have had time to hand out items if it were coming. When you get the amulet in Curse of Strahd, you actually cut it out of the head of a scarecrow in the garden of an abbey. Now, given that you know there are murderous scarecrows in this world, you assume it'd come to life. NOPE! Wights pour out of the ground and attack you. Luckily, wights were nerfed to hell in 5th edition and are no longer the level draining hellspawn of the past. So -maybe- that will be the flavor for our lynch vote or something, but it's unlikely to be some kind of scum boon. Game wise, the only way I can see scum getting an extra night kill -and- us getting an item is if there was an option that would give an item and no boon to scum. Even then, it seems like a stretch.

[Shaziro]

Okay! The game info on our current options:

Winery: There are rather neat friendos here, Wereravens. In game, they offer to convert any who are deemed worthy to Wereravens, making them chaotic good aligned and giving them flight and some other neat abilities. They also, however, have a problem. Their winery is overrun by some crazy, murderous druids who have summoned a metric shitload of blights. Like, an unfair amount of Blights. An obscene amount. We only survived in my game because the bard got very lucky with some fireballs. The lead crazy-ass druid is using a Gulthias Staff, a branch from a Gulthias Tree. Gulthias trees are the source of blights, and are created by the blood of a vampire being spilled upon a tree's seed. So basically...vampire-loving lunatic druids, or neato birbfriends.

Kresk: This is the town that has the Abbot, secretly a celestial being (a deva, I think?) who has been brought here and is trying to appease Strahd in order to save the people of the land. He is also twisted by the world, however, and easy to anger. He expects regular shipments of wine, and has gotten quite angry that the winery has not sent them. You know. Because of the Blight problem. He also was meant to be taking care of the mentally and physically disabled. He got pissed at them for...something, it doesn't really explain what, and turned them all into horrific mongrelfolk. Think the guy from The Fly, but with other animals thrown into the mix too. He is also working on appeasing Strahd's endless search for his would-be bride by creating a gross flesh abomination woman to be his wife. He's kinda fucked up. But he does have a quest to go get said bride a wedding dress. Now, the town itself has this badass healing pool. It's a giant pool of water that was made into holy water, but like...turbocharged, by a Saint. Might have been Markovia, I can't recall. If you bring Tatyana to it, her true love and Strahd's brother appears in it and if you let her dive in, she is released from Ravenloft, denying Strahd forever. The pool also heals you all to hell and acts as a Greater Restoration to remove debuffs, and has a statue nearby which, if you dig under it, has the Tome of Strahd, a book full of information on Strahd's history and goals. This is where I would reccomend we go.

Vistani: This is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it could be Madame Eva, who tells the players where they need to go in order to find the artifacts to fight Strahd, and can also give them fortune readings to advise them on their course. On the other hand, it could be...pretty much any other Vistani. In which case they work for Strahd as spies and we either get shanked, or Strahd gets information on us. Given that we've managed to find an item without her, I doubt Madame Eva is required, and the risk is too high that this is a trap in my mind.

VOTE: Kresk I think this has the highest odds for being A Good Thing, and the Good Thing is one of several things. Just, nobody be anything other than polite and reverent to the Abbot, please.

[Shaziro]

LOL, when you get caught faking a read because you make it on somebody not even in the game...

[Shaziro]

We didn't lose town to the quest, we lost town to the nightkill and the lynch just like in any game of mafia. You're arguing that we should do something with a higher chance of getting one of us killed, assumedly in the hopes that it will hit scum? That isn't the likelihood, there are more town that scum. Your argument is garbage, based in bullshit like "We traded Jason for an item" despite him being the -normal day lynch- rather than some consequence of the quest, and then at the end you claim to be scumreading some guy who isn't even in this game because I have a z in my name? Even if I assume you -did- somehow manage to screw up a name that damn bad, your previous points had absolutely nothing to do with me.

[Shaziro]

What do you think is the mechanical result of us fighting, if not a risk of death for the chance of an item? Scum getting roleblocked?

[Shaziro]

You think I'm null/scum but were willing to vote with me for where to go?

[Shaziro]

OK.
VOTE: Vistani

Who did you target last night?

p-edit: Above is at pine. @Dunn - not reading the game I see. This is old news.

I targeted Shaziro. I figured scum would be too pussy to go for me when I was a claimed self-healer.

<3

[Shaziro]

Not sure who should get the item, but it is definitely a beneficial thing. Spoilers for the adventure, it is

Spoiler:

a letter confirming that the abbot will ressurect the Burgomaster's dead son

, which makes the burgomaster incredibly happy.

[Shaziro]

not supporting pine again. Neither dunn. Imo persivul, andrius and kuroi are good to me if they want the item.

@persi did I miss something or how culted is guaranteed town? just your read?

Don't dig too deep into what persi said. Give it some thought. If you trust him with the item, then trust his word there imo.

VOTE: Culted

[Shaziro]

Sorry I've been away, I've been busy with Christmas shopping and stuff, I'll catch up here sometime tonight. I saw Andrius ask about pigeons, can you explain that further? I don't think they played a particularly in depth role in Curse of Strahd?

[Shaziro]

Ok, I'm caught up. I am still kind of confused, because for a bit there I thought Kuror was claiming to have sent the message and then it was revealed to be Dreal. Also, dreal did a real shit job of trying to subtly hint, tbf. I want to sort the protectives now, tbh. I don't see benefit or harm to Dunn revealing flavor.

[Shaziro]

Wait, Pine claimed to know what the Burgomaster's thingy did? Where? The lore of which of the two items?

[Shaziro]

Wait, Pine claimed to know what the Burgomaster's thingy did? Where? The lore of which of the two items?

No. Let me re ask the questions.

1) Can you tell us the lore related to the vial thingy the Burgomaster gave?
2) Pine's item lore is anywhere related to Pine's claim of the item ability? (aka the necklace lore said it would recharge something or anything that we can correlationate with the ability?)

I hope it is clear this time.

Ok, yeah, that makes a lot more sense to me.
1: I don't recall the Burgomaster giving us any item in particular, but I can tell you that the letter we delivered was

Spoiler:

that the abbot would bring his dead son back to life

so of course the burgomaster is super excited and happy with you. I do recall two vials of golden liquid, a Potion of Greater Restoration (Which can regenerate limbs, remove curses, cure diseases, etc.) and a vial of liquid youth that we found in a tower full of night hags. That one made you physically younger and more beautiful, gave some kind of charisma bonus.

2: Pine's item is a holy symbol, meant to be used by a Cleric though Paladins also make use of holy symbols. The item can be used by anyone for a plethora of effects from creating sunlight which is, of course, bad for vampires to casting some healing spells if I recall correctly. Clerics can use it to supercharge their Turn Undead ability, making it super strong. Given the large amount of abilities and the making one ability stronger, I -can- see how it could be a PR refresher. The range of the spells it can cast would effectively be every PR in Mafia, tbh. The only non-OP version would be to give refresh on abilities.

[Shaziro]

The special thing I thought it might do, and still think it might do, is that if a Cleric gets a hold of it, it might give them a 1 shot bulletproof against Strahd or his minions along with the other ability.

[Shaziro]

If someone has an item (and it's uses not depleted) when they die, one of two things happen. If hung, the player may declare another player to leave his belongings to during twilight time. That player will receive any items the lynchee had just before we change to Night Phase. If they were killed during the night, the item(s) will be voted on a new recipient at Quest Selection the next Day Phase. Votes will tracked separately for Quest Selection and Item Receiving during Part One of Day Phase.

Night kills let us vote, lynches let Pine choose who gets his item.

[Shaziro]

I do think Dreal is panicing a lot for something that shouldn't be that major. I don't know that it's scummy to do so, though.

[Shaziro]

VOTE: Dreal

I don't see any particular reason to give Dreal an exception on my "lynch the shit out of toxic players, no matter what they're bad for the game" policy. Tends to catch scum anyhow, they feel like because they're scum they've got a right to be shitty to town.

[Shaziro]

That is L-2, by the by.

[Shaziro]

I think I've been letting myself feel like I'm contributing well with the flavor and letting it slip on the rest of the game, partly due to being busy with the holidays and all. I'll work on it.

[Shaziro]

Dreal, are you -just- a ranger, or a ranger X? If the latter, what is the X? Mind you, this answer tells me if you're lying or not, so I'd really like it.

[Shaziro]

Couldn't be bothered to fakeclaim your archetype then? So far as I have seen, we all have an archetype along with our class. You apparently don't? Bull. My vote stays.

[Shaziro]

No, you just obviously haven't seen a town role PM. You had me going with the animal messenger, that -is- a thing rangers can do. But so can any of the psychotic druids that work for Strahd that you fight at the Wizard of Wines Winery, for instance.

[Shaziro]

Man. That sure is a whole lot of not refuting what I'm saying, because you know you can't. You fucked up fake claiming and got caught.

[Shaziro]

No, you're now trying to insult me to get a rise out of me. Iraonavp tried, Vedith has tried, it really doesn't get you anywhere. I recommend that in future, when you fakeclaim, you bother to look at the game and see what other claims/reveals have been.

[Shaziro]

Fake anger ATE doesn't get you anywhere, and getting super pissed about being caught scum doesn't either if you are legitimately this angry. Telling people to go die is gross no matter what. Stop.

[Shaziro]

Your claim does not fit the other town roles I am aware of. Therefore, yes, I figure it's scum. You've resorted to slinging insults and screaming when you don't get your way. I'm done responding to you, this isn't getting anywhere and I'm not a fan of having to explain to scum why they were caught just because they feel like they were caught for the wrong reason or whatever.

[Shaziro]

"Your supposedly town role claim does not fit town roles I am aware of, making it obvious it is not a town role". That is the case. Refute it instead of trying to throw out ATE and shit. Until you do that, my vote stays.

[Shaziro]

Given that the artifacts are the only way you can come -close- to killing Strahd, I'm pretty sure we need them, but it'd be -damn- good for scum to insist that town go headlong into danger and -not- get items, now wouldn't it?

[Shaziro]

"Success is guaranteed" says the one caught faking a role PM and now trying to back out by saying "Oh there might be more and I'm just not saying". And then when we had some bad shit happen, you'd either say "Oh, well my power made it so it wasn't -as- bad" or "Oh, my power must have been blocked!". I'm not buying it.

[Shaziro]

You were effectively caught when you started making up reads and put the name of somebody not even in the damn game, this is just -sad- at this point. Fucking hell at the scumflail.

[Shaziro]

You should be a cleric of a particular god, that is your "archetype".

[Shaziro]

More specifically, a god and that god's relevant "Domain".

[Shaziro]

Hm.

[Shaziro]

Sorry, friend is coming into town and I'm gonna hang with him tonight, been doing last minute shopping all day. One quick question from skimming, hasn't Slysly been calling me scum? Pine said he protected me. If he thinks that Creature was a vig kill and scum got blocked, the only claimed block was on me. He thinks scum targeted me, but that I am scum? That's dissonant.

VOTE: Unvote I need to reprocess on Dreal, atm I'm still leaning scum but it would be unfair to hang my vote here while I'm rethinking to see if I get to the same conclusion.

[Shaziro]

Merry Christmas! Obvious v/la today

[Shaziro]

Alright, holidays have largely wound down, I'll stop goofin' around with my new drone and do some re-reading. Slysly needs to answer my question, though, as that's a serious problem and I don't like that it's being ignored. He's saying he thinks I'm scum, but that he thinks scum were blocked by a protective. The only claimed protection was on me. Therefore, if he believes that claimed protection, that would mean that scum would have had to target me, which should eliminate me from his scum pool. It's a -massive- inconsistency.

[Shaziro]

Any questions for me, Kuror?

[Shaziro]

Other than that. My answer on that is pending Slysly's response.

[Shaziro]

So you either don't believe the claimed protection, or you believe that I was protected but wasn't the target, meaning you assume somebody else was protected and attacked?

[Shaziro]

These are in no particular order of town-ness or scum-ness within their subgroups

Town:
Shaziro (duh)
Pine
Andrius
kuror0

Town-Neutral:
KuroiXHF
Culted

Neutral:
Dunnstral
Persivul

Neutral-Scum:
shaddowez
Slysly

Scum:
drealmerz7


Re-reading Dreal's whole tyrade, I think it was bullshit. I can easily see scum trying to lead town into dangerous situations and then, once we realize that they were leading us away from good things, claiming that it's okay because they have some ability to make bad things good. Add to that his "I'M JUST A RANGER" "Oh? You're pushing on it? Well I guess you mean the Ranger of the X thing, right?". It seemed like somebody caught in bullshit and trying to appease.

Slysly is neutral-scum to me, partially pending Dreal's alignment reveal. I don't like his defense of somebody I think is scum via pushing on Pine, who I am townreading hardcore, for one thing.

Shadow is too damn quiet, comes off as popping in from the sidelines to try and seem active. I don't like it.

[Shaziro]

I would put a vote on Dreal but idk if it'd be hammer and I'm not particularly interested in the day ending this early.

[Shaziro]

Given that so far everything we've done has followed the lore to a T, I'm pretty sure I know and the mod's assurance there was just to give a level of uncertainty to avoid people who do know the lore having too much of an advantage over those who don't. Nice heelturn back to angry when I don't townread you in hopes of scaring me off though! Ineffective, but nice.

[Shaziro]

Your Iraon is showing.

[Shaziro]

Okay, have you even bothered to look up the Curse of Strahd module? Here's how it works.

Get artifacts to beat Strahd with, trekking around the world and righting some wrongs as you do. Once you get enough artifacts, you go and kill Strahd. That solves -all- of the other problems. Well almost all. The one it doesn't is to do with this one cleric in Barovia and his son who turns into a vampire, but that one we solved with a Reincarnation spell and a pep-talk. What you don't seem to understand is that until we kill the -root- of the problem, Strahd, anything else we do is meaningless. He is always a step ahead of you except for when you go to kill him, because as much as he can -know- fate, he can't deny it when it comes for his head. That is the point. I'm of the firm belief that if we kill Strahd, other scum lose powers in some way. That'd be the big point of having him as the big figurehead character. To do that, we need artifacts. So far, we've gotten nothing but artifacts by doing the shit that you are screaming that we need to stop doing, and that sounds a lot to me like you're worried your vampdaddy will die, or that -you- will die.

[Shaziro]

So you're admitting that my perspective sounds really good? Thanks I guess.

Your "Oh if we do something it will succeed because I'm alive" thing has no proof to it, where my "This is what makes sense lorewise, and literally spend 5 minutes googling the damn PDF of the Curse of Strahd book to confirm it" has plenty of backing both in that pdf and in the game's progress.

Slysly, do you see how I could see you pushing Pine as a wagon against Dreal's wagon is also defending Dreal? If not, I don't know what to say, if so, that was my point. I think pine is town as hell, and I think the people on his wagon's biggest issue is that they think him getting an item suddenly throws his alignment into question.

[Shaziro]

Ah yes. Your PM that nobody else can see. Versus actually being evident in the game. My PM tells me that I'm an unlimited dayvig who can only kill scum! Pewpew! Town wins! Because I said it's in my PM!

[Shaziro]

And now you've resorted back to more assertions with no backing and insults. "It's super scummy, just look. I won't explain. Find your own reasons it's scummy.".

This is going nowhere. Waiting on a VC.

[Shaziro]

VOTE: Dreal

Slysly, I think him getting the item is what has people up in a tizzy, not that him getting the item makes him scum.

Dreal, you're literally telling us to believe that X power exists and just hasn't come up despite it not being a standard mafia role (which doesn't make it unbelievable, just hard to discern it's balance and likelihood, as this isn't a standard mafia game), and it having never been proven to exist in the game. Add on the fact that trapfinding is a -rogue- ability, not a ranger, and it comes off as bullshit to me.

[Shaziro]

Super late, very tired. Dreal is too comfortable throwing his vote on whatever he thinks will stick, I buy Dunn's flavorclaim. Seems like a reasonable interpretation.

Actually, Dreal is bullshitting. Let me quote the thing.

[Shaziro]

so since at L-1 I'll reveal:

one of the overall abilities I have is called Animal Companion, it grants me a few things, including the send message ability that is already known, but also a track ability (via a different animal, I'd imagine, since the messenger was a pigeon)

I'm a fucking Ranger of the Adventurers and you really should get off my wagon if you're town

Animal companion doesn't let you send messages with small animals, that's the "Animal Messenger" spell. Rangers do get it, but you were clearly just skimming the PDF of the Player's Handbook and settled on "Animal Companion" without reading it. It's nothing to do with your Animal Companion as a Ranger. You're lazily fakeclaiming toward the one person here who knows the classes like the back of his hand, that's a bad choice.

[Shaziro]

You're still throwing shade and whining any time I call you out, rather than disproving what I'm saying. It's kinda sad, tbh.

[Shaziro]

Animal companion isn't remotely related to sending messages. Animal Messenger is, but it's a spell. You obviously aren't reading a Ranger role pm, looked up some shit, and then got it wrong when you fakeclaimed. You also only get one animal companion, not many.

You whining about my lore knowledge is gross, given that so far it's done literally nothing but good for us. You really can't even claim that I'm trying to keep the knowledge exclusive, I've said -many- times that any of you can go look up a PDF of the Players Handbook or the Curse of Strahd adventure and know all of it just as well as I do, if not -more- readily because you are looking at it whereas a lot of the time I'm relying on memory of it.

[Shaziro]

go fucking die, shaziro

If you can't avoid taking Mafia games to a personal level like this, I would recommend refraining from them until you can. This is the kind of thing I get sick of.

[Shaziro]

You're still throwing shade and whining any time I call you out, rather than disproving what I'm saying. It's kinda sad, tbh.

it's because YOU'RE NOT CALLING ME OUT YOU'RE COMING UP WITH BASELESS BULLSHIT

The basis is in the lore of the game, which this game is clearly heavily based in. I have literally been nothing but right this entire time, but you are arguing that when it applies to -you- suddenly lore means nothing. That's too convenient for my tastes, and I think you're scum being caught in a poorly formed lie.

[Shaziro]

So you are moving your vote to me and then refusing to participate until there is a lynch.

[Shaziro]

Simple. Don't flip on dreal. ATE and whining that lore isn't important despite it being 100% correct and good for us so far is dumb, and he is only doing it because it hurts him because he got his fakeclaim wrong.

[Shaziro]

Shaddow, have you ISO'd me?

[Shaziro]

The Dread Plane is the plane of existence in which Ravenloft's dead lie. Well, at least in 5th edition. You've got your Material Plane, that's the universe with Earth/Oerth/Faerun, your normal universe. There's the Ethereal plane, overlaps with the Material plane but is full of ethereal things. Your Nine Hells, your Abyss, your four elemental planes, things like the Semi-elemental Plane of Dust, etc. Ravenloft itself is usually put in the Plane of Shadow.

Shadd, is it really that unusual for me to expect you to do some legwork when you've been lurky as fuck?

[Shaziro]

That...is a thing I have not considered. Let me give that thought, but I do think it'll be hard to find associatives due to lurking.

[Shaziro]

Pay attention to my responses to dreal's bullshit claim, please. It's pretty damn important.

[Shaziro]

Just keep reading.

[Shaziro]

Let me know when you've read all of it, bring up any issues you have then. Piece by piece is just fluffing up postcounts and spamming the thread.

[Shaziro]

How the hell is it still a question? There are so many holes in the claim, I've pointed them all out, and you should pretty easily see his scumflail when they get pointed out. Fuck's sake he went for a damn OMGUS on me while screaming "YOU'RE SCUM BUT I WON'T SAY WHY IT SHOULD BE CLEAR". With Jason, yes, I was wrong, but with good reason. Firstly, he -did- bullshit about being "One of the classes that could use that item better than most", he was a damn Fighter. That item is for Paladins and Clerics. He just wanted a neat toy, and was willing to let benefits to us be damned. Secondly, the "Shield" he has in his role PM is in italics. It's a spell. The way he said it, it seemed like he meant a literal shield, which makes no sense to be an Eldritch Knight's ability since they are a part-time caster.

[Shaziro]

Dreal is still the best choice, Shaddow is lurky as fuck, pine is town as fuck. Popping out again before I get screamed at again.

[Shaziro]

pine what is the difference between my AtE raging here (where I'm town)
and my AtE raging that got my vigged N1 in the game we just finished as scum together?

Okay, I just reviewed your ISO for the LicketyQuickety game for fresh comparison and better articulation, and two things jump out at me.

First, the raging you were doing over there was directed at a specific purpose, at accomplishing an external objective. You were trying to get people lynched.

Man, he definitely didn't constantly scream that I was scum and tell people to lynch me without actually providing his reasons, other than "It's obvious" or anything.

[Shaziro]

Speak With Dead is a Cleric spell, vampires do not get it. Pine is town, Dreal is not.

[Shaziro]

or, ya know, he can speak with the dead because he is undead servant of Strahd and his fakeclaim he was given is cleric but he's a warlock or someshit

geezus shaz you're really hurting the game with all that shit if you're town

"You're 100% scum, but if you're town stop pointing out that the lore of the game (which hasn't been wrong thus far) says Pine is telling the truth, it really fucks up my fake ass read on him"

Speak With Dead is a Cleric spell, vampires do not get it. Pine is town, Dreal is not.

How about Strahd himself? I can't find the exact 5e details on him, but in previous versions he was a powerful necromancer.

Nah, he can't speak with dead and neither can any vampire. They can speak with undead, anyone can so long as they're sentient (as if they are they will speak the languages they spoke in life), but not with dead spirits.

Speak With Dead is a Cleric spell, vampires do not get it. Pine is town, Dreal is not.

Look, I appreciate your flavor knowledge and stuff like this.
As long as its not solely driving your reads we're good here.
Because you're ignoring all the mod-side design aspects here.

Let's suppose Strahd has a one-shot bulletproof. He could pass it off as a Self-protecting Cleric.
If Strahd can talk to the dead or some crap b/c vampire/undead, he could pass it off as Speak With Dead as a Cleric spell.
I'm sure I don't need to tell you this but thinking like this can be dangerous.

Thing is, Strahd -can't- do that. While yes, I understand that the mod will fit things into the lore as he needs for balance, he would do so by having Pine be some manner of -evil- cleric. Those -are- a thing. But, from what I have seen, all legitimate classes thus far are player characters, so I suspect that Player Class roles and Good NPC roles will be town, while any of the many monsters, evil NPCS, and Strahd himself will all be potential scum. That fits in with my knowledge of the campaign.

Also, what the fuck is the good of scum speaking with dead town? To feed misinformation? To do that, they would just pretend to have the ability to do it, why would they -actually- have the ability?

Dreal would be a 100% townread if his roleclaim wasn't fake as shit and incredibly inconsistant, along with all the bullshit ATE that was aimed at getting -me- lynched for questioning him and catching it. Pine outright said that in his last scum game, he screamed and tantrumed and ATE'd to try and get somebody lynched, but you're all ignoring that he's doing the same thing now. Dreal is scum who got caught fakeclaiming, I'm not letting it slide. Dunn has a very reasonable claim what with being a barbarian and having the intimidating presence, that -is- an ability of theirs, barbarians are well known for being "That Guy" in groups who cause lots of shit, it makes perfect sense to me as a miller. They're a PC, but the other PCs are uncomfortable with them. Pine is claiming a cleric who can heal, that makes sense, as does him having Speak with Dead. It also makes perfect sense why he wanted the holy symbol as a result.

P-edit: Evil Clerics in 3.5 got Cause Wounds rather than Cure Wounds, but in 5th edition they all get Cure actually.

[Shaziro]

I mean, yeah, town can know cop results or track results, but that is much less useful to scum is it not? "Oh, X got a cop result that proves my scumbuddy is scum, but died before he could reveal it/crumb it. Neat. Well that's buried with him so MOVING SWIFTLY ALONG!

[Shaziro]

It's almost like dreal is scum for the myriad of reasons I've pointed out.

P-edit: Yeah, I'd honestly rather you save it for somebody more useful like an investigative and we just not lynch you, given how town you are. -Shrug-

[Shaziro]

No, the pigeon -does- fit as animal messenger. There are, however, -CRAZY DRUIDS IN THE WIZARD OF WINES WINERY- that work for Strahd! Their leader has a Gulthias Staff, and is -CRAZY-. They also summon -Blights-. That's what Dreal is, if anything, and he's desperately fakeclaiming Ranger and fucking it up big time.

[Shaziro]

Man, I sure did fakeclaim good once, here, go figure out if that was a fakeclaim if it was actually good and how it worked out, and then assume that because it happened once (If all of the above were true), that it's happening now despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary! I'm town, and because I said so, you have to believe me!

[Shaziro]

confbias some more

So now I'm town confbiasing? I thought I was so clearly scum that you refused to prove it.

For fuck's sake can we please lynch this caught ass scum?

[Shaziro]

I don't understand any townread on Dreal. He literally outright said "that's all genuine" after more bullshit ATE. He's whining about getting super upset and shit while trying to shout me down for calling him out on absolute bullshit, and it's getting ignored because "Oh no Dreal is just upset and having a hard time it's fine!". Are you serious?

Dunn, explain your Pine read, I haven't seen any justification other than "He got an item" from you, and that's just as good as "he claimed miller" imo.

[Shaziro]

Literally the first point in that is garbage, Pine. He was screaming to lynch me with his shitty ATE "go die" crap as the backing for it. He was directly trying to get my lynch, because I'm the one who caught his fakeclaim. How do you not see that?

[Shaziro]

Pine respond to me, damnit. You're butchering my townread on you right and fucking left.

[Shaziro]

Are you honestly fucking telling me that you don't think Dreal was targeting me for a lynch despite him outright saying "Lynch this scumfuck" several times?

[Shaziro]

Literally the first point in that is garbage, Pine. He was screaming to lynch me with his shitty ATE "go die" crap as the backing for it. He was directly trying to get my lynch, because I'm the one who caught his fakeclaim. How do you not see that?

Respond to what? Your questions appear rhetorical. You disagree with my interpretation, your rebuttal does not sway me. What are you looking for here?

This isn't a disagreement of interpretation, you're at this point opting to completely ignore that he -was- targeting a player with his bullshit fake ATE, while at the same time calling said player a townread. Stop trying to avoid the point, answer it.

[Shaziro]

Did SlySly just hammer Pine? Holy fuck I wake up to this shit?

Okay, golden liquid potion of glibness, not something I ever encountered but given that the golden potion we found gave a charisma boost and was called "Youth" by the night hags in the Old Bonegrinder (An old windmill they used to grind up kids bones to make pastries that give good dreams until you stop eating them, which causes horrible nightmares) I can see it being true. Claim seems real, and since it's an adventurer role I think it's town, just has the potential to be anti-town if used wrong. I'll try and figure out any other possible baddies it could be, but if that's the role it seems legitimate enough.

The Govern! Okay, so Strahd can probably govern, but so could any "party leader" class or any of the Burgomasters. Governing isn't necessarily town or scum from Mafia Game Theory that I recall, but if it tends to be one or the other that is probably the best way to lean on this. Lore won't give us a solid answer here. Given that he apparently just hammered Pine, though, I'm leaning scummy as fuck.

Dreal, if you can't resist ad hominem shit, at least direct it somewhere else. I'm sick of it.