Mini Normal 1854: Game Over

[Dierfire]

VOTE COUNT 1.11

Creeps20 (4): ScumDeersAreVeryTasty, Hiraki, Aristophanes, Gamma Emerald
Hiraki (4): Lil Uzi Vert, MisaTange, Eric Rasputin, TwoFace
Lil Uzi Vert (1): TheseViolentDelights
TwoFace (1): havingfitz
ScumDeersAreVeryTasty (1): Creeps20

No Vote (2): FrankJaeger, Vedith

With 13 players living, 7 votes are required to lynch.

TIMER

(expired on 2016-11-30 16:30:00)

NOTES

Prodded TheseViolentDelights
Gamma Emerald V/LA until 16 December (normal activity/prod requirements will apply)

[Dierfire]

I'm seeking a replacement for Eric Rasputin.

The deadline has been extended 24 hours at this time; I will decide upon further extensions at a later time.

TIMER

(expired on 2016-12-01 16:30:00)

[MisaTange]

Hopefully Eric's replacement does better. Hmm.

[Eric Rasputin]

Guess Im being replaced lol ... Enjoy the round guys ... See ya in the future ... Maybe

[Gamma Emerald]

You posted before you were replaced so you can still play.

[TheseViolentDelights]

hey people, I'm going to be able to play catchup probably tomorrow. Sorry for the shit lurk :/

[Vedith]

OMFG someone vig TF or fitz tonight so the wall posts will stop.

Why do you always try to look scummy Gamma?
Stop being dreadful.

Opinion on Fritz and TwoFace?

TwoFace looks town as shit so the fact you want him vigged is an alert.

[Gamma Emerald]

OMFG someone vig TF or fitz tonight so the wall posts will stop.

Why do you always try to look scummy Gamma?
Stop being dreadful.

Opinion on Fritz and TwoFace?

TwoFace looks town as shit so the fact you want him vigged is an alert.

It was a joke. I just want them to stop the constant back and forth wall posting.

[Vedith]

It was a joke. I just want them to stop the constant back and forth wall posting.

Fritz and TF opinion?

[Gamma Emerald]

It was a joke. I just want them to stop the constant back and forth wall posting.

Fritz and TF opinion?

Fitz scummy TF towny

[TwoFace]

So let's lynch fitz

VOTE: fitz

[havingfitz]

What is your case on me TwoFace? Try using points that haven't been shown to be false

[TwoFace]

I am still waiting on you to explain in detail why you are town reading hiraki and tvd

You used gut earlier but gave no actual reasons. Let's lock down some reasons so you can't backtrack later.

you know since that is what you thought I was going to do with my Misa read so it's only fair that you outline your reads with actual reasons so you can't do the same thing.

[TwoFace]

@ hiraki - earlier you said tvd was town soley based on his post 99. I have read it several times now and not seeing what about it makes him town.

can you explain your thought process for me?

[TwoFace]

@fitz - after you do than can we get some thoughts on Creeps. Obviously you aren't going to be voting hiraki which means creeps is most likely where your vote is going to go. I just want to see if you think he is scum and if so, why do you think he is.

[Hiraki]

yet nothing memorable stands out for me. seems more like iioa. If you have commented on important things and you ended up voting creeps, like shania twain once said. That don't impress me much.

that's just your opinion then and I can't sway you - it's unfortunate that you think this way tho

I don't remember you starting a conversation about eric is newb town. I remember you making a big post saying he is a newb and don't know if he is scum or not. can you link me to where you started the conversation on it?

like I understand that there might be a difference between where he plays and where we play but keep the following in mind:
1) eric wasn't able to deduce what D1 on page 7 of a thread was
2) eric doesn't know if we should or shouldn't role claim on day 1
2a) eric isn't very confident in his own logic that he doesn't know if this is a good or bad idea
3)

His analysis seems off, his analysis is not backed with proof ...

on a vote that is done by GUT
4) eric has also basically trolled a bit and not really in a funny way, as i noted

i'm not trying to be offensive or mean - it's plainly the truth that he's not an experienced player in this sort of game and should not be taken as one

if he's faking it, like i noted before, that's just stupid and i'll honestly avoid him because it's just stupid play to get the town confused and drained (as is what is happening right now)

i would like to get past this and lynch scum tho - i hope you all will agree

You're not taking into account that even if he is, it does not clear him.

so the crux of your argument is that you want me to vote for someone who is clearly scummy (I have not ever denied that he is very scummy on the surface - i'm not really willing to check so if I have, it's a mistake, but i'm like 99% sure I did not) without looking at their experience?

I don't care if someone says that they have 7 years of experience behind them - they certainly haven't demonstrated it in any capacity to my satisfaction. I think that Eric is new(b) town and therefore, as with anyone who is new, most scumtells don't really apply. If you used conventional scumtells in a newbie game, you would mislynch more than scumlynch.

Here's a question - do you honestly think that Eric has 7 years of forum mafia and is unable to deduce/state/etc.:

1) D1 equates to Day 1
2) Roleclaiming on Day 1 is or is not a good idea (difference between taking a stance on one side - that would mean that his website did one but instead he took a very neutral stance)
3) Claiming that he said his reasoning for voting Lil Uzi was told when it was a gut read
4) That the mod, on a site that he is not familiar with, is unable to make the roles user-specific
5) Anything more substance based than one or two quotes?

Again - like I said before - there is a chance that Eric is an alt of someone that is faking this. If true, then I'm not very pleased and I'm pretty sure you're supposed to declare if an alt. is an alt. but I'm not very sure on those rules.

i think there's even more about this - there is no hesitation to call him anything but town though

I don't remember you engaging me on misa was scum, if you did it certainly didn't stand out as a memorable post

are you basically admitting that you didn't do your homework here?

i'm sorry if it's not "memorable" but at least I've done something in this game rather than Creeps who's going to sleep around here and do nothing for the rest of the game

the crux of your argument is that I haven't done anything substantial (wrong) and that if I have done something substantial, then I shouldn't be voting creeps because that shows a lack of overall substance in what I've done (what?????)

@ hiraki - earlier you said tvd was town soley based on his post 99. I have read it several times now and not seeing what about it makes him town.

can you explain your thought process for me?

sure - i still think the tvd slot is v townie

99 is a very hard-hitting post for early game:

See; this is even worse. Ari is now perpetuating the "I might be a PR, I might not be" narrative; once again, do you see town A) asking more people about this 'accidentally' slipped PR, or do you see town saying shit maybe we shouldn't talk about this so openly

I agreed with this 100%

It does not help in the long run. You know the only information that is valuable, that I know your meta, and know how to play the game. Everything else is busy-talk.

100%

i'm actually having some very hard problems for saying why that post doesn't reek of town because it's 100% town-aligned, can you explain how you don't see it?

also i feel like the quoted post is classic "not really answering the question" type thing

this is quite actually the only part of my post where I do that and everything else is substance; i was very confused and shocked by this and TF's vote because you've both been pretty heavy on the town read. TF at least has some legitimate concerns that I can't settle down on - I don't think his views are scum-aligned.

However, the fact that the biggest part of my post, which was the ending, is just thrown away like it's nothing is very concerning for a slot like yours which hasn't been posting much anyway. If you weren't a mason, I'd honestly 100% have my vote on you at this point.

[TwoFace]

are you basically admitting that you didn't do your homework here?

no this was me going through your iso on my phone and couldn't really find anything other than a throw away question.

the crux of your argument is that I haven't done anything substantial (wrong) and that if I have done something substantial, then I shouldn't be voting creeps because that shows a lack of overall substance in what I've done (what?????)

Fine you don't like my reasonings, but i am not the only one voting you. Actually i am not voting you anymore but will if a fitz wagon doesn't happen. I don't think creeps is a good lynch.


what are you going to with regards to the other people voting you? You have both masons voting you, yet you aren't trying to sway them to move their vote. Eric's replacement will probably unvote you so you get lucky in that regard.

In post 99, TheseViolentDelights wrote:
See; this is even worse. Ari is now perpetuating the "I might be a PR, I might not be" narrative; once again, do you see town A) asking more people about this 'accidentally' slipped PR, or do you see town saying shit maybe we shouldn't talk about this so openly
I agreed with this 100%

so why no push to lynch ari? Or at least pressure Ari? You voted uzi (mason) and Creeps (lynchbait)

Feels like you had something legitimate against ari yet did nothing with it (see this is the kind of thing i am scum reading you for)

In post 99, TheseViolentDelights wrote:
It does not help in the long run. You know the only information that is valuable, that I know your meta, and know how to play the game. Everything else is busy-talk.
100%

i'm actually having some very hard problems for saying why that post doesn't reek of town because it's 100% town-aligned, can you explain how you don't see it?

i don't see why this is a good post. Using meta is meh. it's NAI at best. almost everything in post 99 could have come from a good scum player. Hell even a halfway decent scum player could put something together.

Neither you or tvd pushed Ari at all despite both of you agreeing that him talking about the PR thing doesn't seem town motivated. That strikes me as odd because that is what you should be doing if you genuinely believe his push wasn't how a townie should act

[Hiraki]

no this was me going through your iso on my phone and couldn't really find anything other than a throw away question.

but it was just for the misa part

Fine you don't like my reasonings, but i am not the only one voting you.

and i've addressed ALL of those votes in ISO 44(you), 32(as well as previous debates in the early game), 38(misa), 42(Eric)

You have both masons voting you, yet you aren't trying to sway them to move their vote.

1) Lil Uzi has been on me for the entire game - this is a fact.

No I don't really care about Lil Uzi atm because I don't think he's looking at the entire game. It's very ironic that in the same post that he thinks I'm "blindly tunneling" he's so blind that he can't see that the two people that he thinks are scum are me and the person that I want to lynch the most atm. Does that sound really weird or something????

2) Misa has only recently joined my wagon and has not said anything about the actual reasons in my post, just got to the point where I said one thing where it might be a

tad

bit insulting since it's very ironic that Misa would vote me out of the blue. Like I said in my last post, if there's anyone on my wagon who - without the premise of a mason claim - I would vote right now, it would be Misa.

3) Eric - do I really need to say more?

My wagon is not full of 100% scumreads, that's why I'm not lynched yet. It's because most of the town realizes there's something dumb going on.

so why no push to lynch ari? Or at least pressure Ari? You voted uzi (mason) and Creeps (lynchbait)

Are you saying that because Creeps is a supposed easy lynch that he's town?

Because I can tell you this is not an easy lynch.

Ari was page 1ish material. That's not the same thing and it wasn't scummy. It was clearly for reaction purposes. Do you see him talking about it after Page 5 or 10? I don't even need to check his ISO for that.

Feels like you had something legitimate against ari yet did nothing with it (see this is the kind of thing i am scum reading you for)

That's nice. You had a feeling? I've been writing so much that you had a feeling about what I said rather than looking on what I actually said? This is why I'm pretty annoyed. This wagon is very much feeling oriented rather than fact.

Using meta is meh. it's NAI at best.

are we looking at the same post? here's what Ari did in that post:
1) Admission that the PR stuff in his first post caused a shitstorm (i.e. reactionary)
2) Actually using that post to get some reads, more specifically asking FJ about the post
3) Agreement on the mutually exclusive criteria (not very relevant now)

1 and 2 are more sort of not really relevant now while 3 is very much not so.

Hell even a halfway decent scum player could put something together.

Yeah, and a scummy player could make the most pro-town argument and still be scum. I guess it really just doesn't matter...

Neither you or tvd pushed Ari at all despite both of you agreeing that him talking about the PR thing doesn't seem town motivated.

plz quote here's what I actually said:

1) (Iso 0) i usually don't like to focus on softcrumbs on d1 - more of a useful tool on d4 if ari claims VT and is like "just a prank bro, i was deflecting :):):):):)"
2) (Iso 3) im sorry i don't want to suck your ego off about your softcrumb that's stupid

i really haven't talked at lengths about this - i have talked at lengths about the meta argument, which I think you are confusing with the PR argument. that is scummy, the PR stuff isn't. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

[TwoFace]

I can't read/respond to another one of these things... sorry bro. between you and fitz I am wall post/multi quote worn out.

[Hiraki]

lol

[TwoFace]

Who else beside creeps is scum. I'm honestly not seeing good reasons for him.

[Hiraki]

as i said previously, masons are honestly the scummiest people here. the only reason i wouldn't want to lynch both of them (for separate reasons - not claim based) is because of their claims

it's v hard to work when you are on a trail and then the trail literally doesn't go cold, it just stops

creeps is the next best choice - not sure how you can honestly defend him, it's not a eric situation. he is clearly here and reading and giving his opinions, they're just not good opinions - please refer to ISO 43

i really think you need to respond to the above because there are some major inconsistencies in what you're saying and what actually happened (ex: PR discussion is bad - I never said that, I was talking about the meta discussion after RVS)

[TwoFace]

as i said previously, masons are honestly the scummiest people here. the only reason i wouldn't want to lynch both of them (for separate reasons - not claim based) is because of their claims

it's v hard to work when you are on a trail and then the trail literally doesn't go cold, it just stops

let's be honest here. you didn't really put much work in your uzi scum read imo. your reasons for scum reading him were fairly weak, just like your reasons for voting creeps.

and when your trail goes cold, you need to keep doing work, i don't think you are. You decided creeps was an acceptable lynch, came up with some more weak reasons (notice a trend?) and park your vote and then don't really try and get others to follow you.

You got tweedle dee and tweedle dum to vote with you but their votes are policy votes. I could easily call your vote a veiled policy vote.

at this point though I am just frustrated. i have a lot of people who seem to agree with points i made about fitz or call fitz scummy yet nobody is willing to drop a vote which forces me to compromise which i'd rather not do

[Gamma Emerald]

It's not just policy: I believe Creeps has a chance of flipping scum

[Vedith]

It's not just policy: I believe Creeps has a chance of flipping scum

Right, I'm home.
Anyone has a 'chance' of flipping scum though.