Mini 1856 - This Mafia Game is for pieguyn (Game Over)

[GuyInFreezer]

vc 1.05

drealmerz7 (5):

Varsoon, beeboy, Dwlee99, pisskop, Gamma Emerald

Varsoon (4):

Nahdia, Aeronaut, drealmerz7, SirCakez

SirCakez (1):

Wisdom

beeboy (1):

Luna Fox

Dwlee99 (1):

pieguyn

Not Voting:

mhsmith0

With

13

alive,

7

to lynch.

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-09 11:09:14).

[Gamma Emerald]

dreal is at L-1

[drealmerz7]

that says 2

[pieguyn]

so here's a point I want to make about Aero's miller claim: I think he definitely true claimed his *role*, and GIF has told me in a private convo a while back when discussing mod practices that it was unlikely he would ever use a mafia miller in a game because he sees no point in it as a role. the thing is, this is a game that was apparently designed entirely to fuck with me.

if I'm being honest, I actually feel a bit more comfortable thinking a level above that and considering the miller claim as town because GIF would expect me to see it and think "o god, GIF put a mafia miller in the game to fuck with me", but that's pretty unreliable.

[Gamma Emerald]

Isn't a mafia miller just a fancy goon

[drealmerz7]

obviously fucking with you/us and it's a huge tossup...nice GIF!

[pieguyn]

Isn't a mafia miller just a fancy goon

mafia miller exists entirely to fuck with the site policy of "millers are town" while being confirmable; in terms of how it investigates to cops, it would be the same as a goon.

p-edit: yep.

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean role cops would get different results.

[drealmerz7]

and parity cops

[Luna Fox]

I mean role cops would get different results.

Yeah that.
There was a mafia miller back in Tarot.

[Aeronaut]

Oop, I did miss it. Blame the awkward formatting, Varsoon. Not the fact you're probably in need of proper sleep and nutrients.

Anyway.

I can only think of GOOD reasons for scum to make that claim, and POOR reasons for town to do it, but it is what it is.

Can you please explain all of the good reasons for scum!me to claim that, and all of the poor reasons for town!me to claim it, because as far as I'm concerned, every player who gets a miller role should claim it on D1, preferably earlier than I did.

And please actually answer this question; I'm not Wisdom.

Something between these things got to me

- Town reading me for no reason despite you never town reading me
- "Aero is blatantly ignoring me" when he wasn't really doing that, which you brought up more then once was pretty shitty
- Pandering for town reads using reasons that don't actually make sense (none of yours and Aeros opinions are the same and the ones that are the same don't even need to be faked as scum because it doesn't take being town to realize something doesn't make sense)
- your really bad gamma read

Yeah. This.

@Beeboy:
I dont think im townreading you for no reason. I explicitly stated that your posts on Page 2 gave me a gut townread.
Yeah I made that mistake, and i mentioned that earlier in 473
I was never pandering for townreads i was questioning why Aero never commented on anything of mine which imo if he agreed with stuff i said he should've had a townread,

I don't know why you'd think I'd auto-town read you just because I agreed with you.

You have to understand that from my perspective, you're complaining that I'm not town reading you for NAI reasons which weren't even what you said in the first place. It's very "look, I'm town!".

I also wouldn't let Aeronaut anywhere near LYLO with that claim, either.

I pretty much agree, tbh. Me being in LYLO would be really town useful for different reasons, but I think the sheer amount of WIFOM I'm going to cause by being there is going to be more harmful than helpful.

Maybe we won't even come across a LYLO situation.

can you elaborate
because i also read her posts and i cant tell shes town

pedit: @nahdia

Honestly, I'm not sure I can.

It's just one of those things where I read it and it feels like genuine sorting effort. I guess you can call it gut but it's more than gut it's just
she's town.

What do you think she's done sorting-wise?

Alternatively:
Can't I dislike the style and the slot be scum? :/

You can, but you're trying to justify the style as being scummy. Like; I don't really see drealz as town, but your reasons are reach as fuck

[Page 26, More reading after Westworld]

[Wisdom]

Cause he is ignoring my questions and that is making me unhappy :<

not scummy and

Like he is straight up dodging discussion and filling up the thread with aimless AtE and fluff.

not scummy

[Dwlee99]

Kinda lurking but isn't mafia miller bastard?

[Wisdom]

these wagons both arent very good

can we wagon cakez instead?

[Wisdom]

also feeling better about luna

[SirCakez]

Beeboy your dreal push sucks, move on
You're scumreading him for NAI stuff
Same for your push on luna

Come join us on varsoon instead!

[Wisdom]

what ai thing has varsoon done, cakez?

[SirCakez]

Read my iso
You were scumreading him earlier too, no?

[pieguyn]

i don't have the same "Cakez' reads are ridiculous" feeling i had when he was scum in magical girls but i am not sure if what i felt there was a result of his alignment or of the dynamics between me and certain other people in that game (i.e., a result of him attempting to push the person who i mostly unconditionally trusted that game)

[Varsoon]

Can you please explain all of the good reasons for scum!me to claim that, and all of the poor reasons for town!me to claim it, because as far as I'm concerned, every player who gets a miller role should claim it on D1, preferably earlier than I did.

I'm not talking about the Miller claim--that was a good idea. Claiming Miller D1 is what you should always do.
I'm talking about being the highest voted wagon and then claiming Miller but also claiming your role is very powerful otherwise.
I've avoided discussing this further because doing so strips any perceivable town utility from such a thing, but, fuck it, you've pushed the envelope:
There's only two reasons I see for town to claim the 'but-powerful' part of 'Miller-but-powerful' in that situation:
1. Survivability from the lynch.
2. To draw the scum kill.

However, since scum players don't have to worry about drawing a kill, claiming you have a powerful role otherwise, as scum, allows for the following:
1. Survivability from the lynch.
2. Potential to look good on a rolecop/watcher check if you've got a traditionally 'town' looking role.
3. To draw town role-related investigations, which, if you're claiming this as scum, you're admitting that you'll come up as a scum player, but you've now got an 'out' to target people with your 'powerful role'.
4. To allow you a free pass later, when you actually claim that 'but-powerful' part of your role. Because you've left it intentionally vague now, other players can only speculate, and you can tailor it to being whatever you want later. Your kill fails? Oh! You're a doctor or BP now! You're put close to lynch again? Suddenly, you're a cop!
5. You're looking to draw town protectives away from others, because players will want to protect a claimed 'powerful' role rather than blindly pick someone else.

Claiming Miller was the right move to make if you're actually a town miller. However, if you're a town miller with a 'powerful' role, you've only painted a target on your back, which is only helpful if:
1. You're hoping to draw a protective
2. You're hoping to draw and punish a kill.

The first of which is unlikely, because, with the Miller claim alone, you could've enacted the 'more powerful' aspect of your role without scrutiny.
The second of which is stripped of most utility and now only WIFOM given that I've covered it and it's been put front and center.

So, yeah. Poor reasons for town to claim that way.
Perceivably good reasons for scum to claim that way.

If I'm wrong, please don't correct me. If you're town, I don't want you to flush away any further utility your role might have.
If you're gambitting with the whole 'more powerful' bit, stop it.
If you're scum, you'll be lynched before LYLO regardless.

[Wisdom]

cant you just treat the claim as null? There are townies making much more blatant claims where they shouldnt

[Wisdom]

Read my iso
You were scumreading him earlier too, no?

no
Your only given reason is you disagree with his dreal read
What makes it a scum tunnel rather than town?

[Varsoon]

Given what I've outlined, that's essentially how I have to treat the claim--as either a poor town play or as an attempt at manipulation by scum, but, nevertheless, as a slot that should be vig'd or lynched before LYLO.

[Wisdom]

or you know, you could read him by other things

[Varsoon]

Precisely what I'm hoping to do; but as of now, we're talking about the claim and how to read the claim.