Mini 1856 - This Mafia Game is for pieguyn (Game Over)

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: varsoon
feelin' it

[Dwlee99]

Are we seriously analyzing wagon speed to see if aero is town or not??
Baddddd

[Dwlee99]

guys vote varsoon

[Dwlee99]

guys vote varsoon

Because _____?
Like, it seems even more random than usual to just be voting a 0 poster.

my role pm makes me believe varsoon is probably scum

[Dwlee99]

Town: Smith, Pie, Cakez, Dwlee, Nahdia

I'll sheep this

[Dwlee99]

Still no vote count lel

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: drealmer

[Dwlee99]

LIES!
There's no way Luna can br townreading FB based on his one post!

remind me to vote this too

[Dwlee99]

does dreal always play like this or

[Dwlee99]

ooooyes, lookatme stir the pot!!

does dreal always play like this or

[Dwlee99]

If you're town you're just making noise and creating a smoke screen for scum to hide under

[Dwlee99]

good luck forming your reads, everyone!

we literally can't because you're making noise

[Dwlee99]

dreal is being a bit more spazzy than im used to him being. either he flipped scum for the first(?) time and is overcorrecting himself, or he used caffeinated soap in the shower today.

lez flip him

[Dwlee99]

good luck forming your reads, everyone!

we literally can't because you're making noise

It really wasn't that much noise though...

what is noise, exactly? I think it's content in there

Noise is posting that: doesn't generate content, is annoying to read, useless posting, etc.
So I'd say whenever you just add random ellipses and go !!!! a bunch of times it is noise cause I don't feel like reading it, it didn't really say anything, and is overall annoying to read.

to be fair it's dwlee's first game in awhile.

No
IIRC he was in Family Mafia

I haven't played in ~2-3 months.

[Dwlee99]

Approve of varsoon votes

[Dwlee99]

Definitely a scum in these two, I don't think both are though because I don't see scum doubling up on votes here immediately

I think you may have missed a post earlier in the game lol

[Dwlee99]

Varsoon is speaking too many words.

[Dwlee99]

Pie why are you voting me
pedit possibly
pedit2 you can find it

[Dwlee99]

Only said immediately after I call him scummy lol

VOTE: cakez

Are you seeing what I'm seeing?

[Dwlee99]

same but I'm dumb cause I just realized you quoted a post so presumably your reason for voting him but I didn't realize that at first and I thought you were referring to something else

[Dwlee99]

Wisdom/beeboy scum together

no

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: sircakez
I dont like when my questions arent answered.
(the vote and that statement arent connectedl

[Dwlee99]

not you

[Dwlee99]

Just kidding apparently I dreamed I asked a question I never did.

[Dwlee99]

wait no I did

Pie why are you voting me

[Dwlee99]

What questions lol

what the..

[Dwlee99]

(the vote and that statement arent connectedl

[Dwlee99]

So then why the vote?

I didnt like the way you pitted me and pisskop against each other in one of your posts when you said one of us has to be scum.

[Dwlee99]

lol what

Town: Smith, Pie, Cakez, Dwlee, Nahdia

I'll sheep this

You are scum aren't you?

VOTE: drealer

VOTE: drealmer

Dreal looks like spazzy, low hanging fruit town to me

Definitely a scum in these two, I don't think both are though because I don't see scum doubling up on votes here immediately

Instead of talking about this fargone hardly-game-related external nonsense,
let's get to the meat of the thing:

Drealmerz. Are you scum?
This is your one chance to answer truthfully.

This is probably scum with one of the above, throwing shade w/o actually voting.

too many pages I'm not reading

my vote still looks good

And this also could be scum.

Damn and I thought finding scummy people would be hard

[Dwlee99]

By saying one of us HAS to be scum

[Dwlee99]

^ cake

[Dwlee99]

I didn't exactly mean fight.

[Dwlee99]

Then WTF did you mean?

That you're setting up a pool of two people and declaring one has to be scum 2 days into the game

[Dwlee99]

Then WTF did you mean?

That you're setting up a pool of two people and declaring one has to be scum 2 days into the game

Are you going somewhere with this? this is a fairly weak angle.

Then WTF did you mean?

That you're setting up a pool of two people and declaring one has to be scum 2 days into the game

That's what I'm doing, yes.

I'm gonna just nvm this as you playing poorly rather than trying to setup two mislynches.

[Dwlee99]

Dwlee I thought you where sheeping me btw :<

Should I continue this

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: drealz
this works then

[Dwlee99]

Kinda lurking but isn't mafia miller bastard?

[Dwlee99]

beeboy and luna need to chill. their fighting is killing my vibes

[Dwlee99]

UNVOTE:
what the hell don't put someone to l-1 while generating like twenty pages of content
I want to at least half read this

[Dwlee99]

Luna if you don't stop I am replacing out of this game.

NO YOU ARENT YOU DRAGGED ME INTO THIS GAME AND YOU'RE GOING DOWN WITH ME

[Dwlee99]

Dwlee99 my goofy comrade: i'm gonna talk in meme so u understand me better. m9 u wanna fite m8? r u scum m8? il brek ur legs, swer on mi mum. il fook u up i wil. honestly. alllright?

k

[Dwlee99]

Pie you really have no clue how to read me. I dont do any of the things you mentioned when I roll scum. Or if I do theyre definitely not alignment indicative. I am gonna be "responsible," do my homework that I need to, take a break from league and play this game tonight.
Keeping up with all of these posts is hard when school is happening because I cant check my phone to read and respond like I was somehow able to do without getting in trouble at school last year.

[Dwlee99]

Look at family mafia and see the shit that happened when my hydra got wagoned and lynched day one when we were both not even around.

[Dwlee99]

a lot of dwlee's reads don't feel naturally formed; they feel like they're designating scum reads and coming up with reasons to push them afterward. the read on drealz is one example of this: it amounted to drealz being scum for "noise", which is a kind of push i hate because it's entirely to do with policy and nothing to do with his actual play; there's nothing in there that suggests dwlee is actually attempting to sort and think critically about drealz

I was having trouble forming reads and drealz's posting was absolute garbage and total noise. I'll give you the last sentence cause you're right I haven't put everything into this game but I think you're smart enough to know effort =/= being town and low effort =/= being scum.

it's the kind of thing scum focuses on when they want to give the impression that someone needs to die because they're not playing optimally. arguments like that are usually really safe arguments to push because it's really easy for town players to get pissed off and say "fuck it, i agree" instead of thinking too hard about it - and even if they don't, people usually don't fault the aggressor for pushing them because what they're saying is (objectively) true

That

can

be a thing could push because of those reasons but you're just fitting it to a scum narrative. You say "this argument is safe to push" and "people usually don't fault the aggressor" and then attach a scum agenda to it. Conditional probability: If someone is scum they are likely to push these arguments. But someone pushing these arguments does not (necessarily) make them more likely to be scum.

the read on Cakez-kun i don't take quite as much issue with, but i still don't think his interpretation of the post (second quote in 240) is all that great. lining up lynches is definitely a thing scum does, but it isn't what Cakez-kun was doing - what Cakez-kun was doing was seeing a notable momentum shift onto someone he thought was town and making the assumption there had to be a scum on it. i don't think there's anything unreasonable there and i don't see why that would catch anyone's attention to that extent unless they had a previous scum read on the slot, which i don't think dwlee did

I saw a false dichotomy I didn't like. Cakez posting afterwards made me realize I didn't think it through too much and it probably wasn't alignment indicative so I backed off.

a lot of this also has to do with timing: all of their scum reads/pushes (drealz, Gamma, Cakez-kun) have mostly appeared along with these people becoming leading/viable wagons. i think they're also being not very proactive in terms of explaining their reads in general, their reaction to Gamma (172) and their Cakez-kun read being two examples of this - that was pretty much all of the effort they put into explaining either of those reads, and in particular, for Cakez-kun being a strong enough read to vote, there was... like... no effort beyond the one post they called out to actually push or question or refine the read on him. i don't get the impression they're interested in pushing anything besides targets they know they can safely push

I think you're smart enough to know effort =/= being town and low effort =/= being scum.

I see this a lot when I'm town as well where people go through this whole thing where they're like "Dwlee would be looking for something safe to push when he's scum!!" when I don't even think that deeply about my play. Anyone who tries to pin these super deep thoughtful motives to my actions and calls me scum for it doesn't understand my scum play (or any of my play for that matter).

[Dwlee99]

don't like pie trying to call the scum team by just going after the low effort players but their claim /shrug
inb4 "omgus"

[Dwlee99]

I was having trouble forming reads and drealz's posting was absolute garbage and total noise. I'll give you the last sentence cause you're right I haven't put everything into this game but I think you're smart enough to know effort =/= being town and low effort =/= being scum.

um... posts like 183 don't seem to imply that it's a "having trouble forming reads" thing, that seems like it would imply "I have a scum read on you because you're generating noise for scum to hide under".

If you're town you're just making noise and creating a smoke screen for scum to hide under

This is me telling him if he is town to stop being dumb. You're right about my reason but that doesn't mean it is or was a particularly

strong

read.

the rest of your treatment of him this game, like... the fact that he appears to be your preferred lynch... implies the same thing.

Gotta pick someone? I unvoted a while back when he got to l-1 though cause I wasn't comfortable with day ending so early.

I also think that you're a smart enough player to know that "noise" does not necessarily mean scum and that's a large part of why I don't like the fact that you have focused on it the entirety of this game day without attempting to refine the read any further - it isn't about high effort or low effort, it's that I don't buy that you would just declare "scum because noise" and leave it at that.

I got a scum read on him from it and then I hit a period of low activity. I don't know how you expect me to refine my read when I am not posting and there's like 10 pages while I'm at school. So this comes straight back to effort.

if you think the actual content in his posts are garbage irrespective of how noisy they are, I'd like to hear why (my read on him based on his posts is almost entirely null since I can't parse them at all). if I'm wrong in my interpretation of your read on him and you mostly just wanted him out of the game, I'd like to hear what your current picks for scum actually are, since that's another issue in itself (if you need a bit of time to read the thread and answer this that's fine).

Because he isn't saying anything. He's just sitting there and saying random stuff. Noise is garbage.

That can be a thing could push because of those reasons but you're just fitting it to a scum narrative. You say "this argument is safe to push" and "people usually don't fault the aggressor" and then attach a scum agenda to it. Conditional probability: If someone is scum they are likely to push these arguments. But someone pushing these arguments does not (necessarily) make them more likely to be scum.

the main bulk of my issue is what I wrote in the first paragraph of this post and this is why I don't think the read is likely to come from you as town. the fact that it has advantages for scum is just an extra benefit that makes me think it is something you would reasonably do (I am sure you know that if you can't figure out the scum motivation for something, you likely should hesitate to push it as a scum tell even if you're not sure they would do it as town)

FE

I'm curious as to what gives you the impression Varsoon is a low-effort player this game. besides that, if you want me to explain a specific read, feel free to ask.

I guess he has done stuff in the past 5 pagesish I've missed? I don't recall him doing much.

[Dwlee99]

Pisskop was already obvtown tho

[Dwlee99]

Because he isn't saying anything. He's just sitting there and saying random stuff. Noise is garbage.

this is the part that I take issue with.

drealz is a really erratic and noisy player, but it *isn't* true that he doesn't have any content anywhere in his posts. he is forming reads, taking stances, and so forth, even if there's a lot of erraticness in his posts and even if he isn't the most cooperative player.

a town approach, I would expect to be actually reading his posts and what they contain and analyzing it in some way or another, even if they still come out of it with a scum read (what for instance beeboy is doing even if I don't agree with most of his reasons). what you did, on the other hand, was you said "his posts are nothing but noise, so he's scum" - you're either missing or deliberately ignoring what his posts actually contain and writing it all off as just "noise", and no, you not being here does not have anything to do with this. even when you were here and present in the game thread, for about the first ~2 RL days of the game, his posts had at least some stances and reads in them.

if you had trouble forming a read on his posts early in the game, that's fine, but once you catch up I would like you to actually attempt to read the content of his posts and form an opinion of him that isn't just about "noise = scum".

If you want me to be honest I stopped reading his posts lol

[Dwlee99]

I am up for voting drealz @ whoever said we didn't have enough votes.

[Dwlee99]

Is drealz at l-1

[Dwlee99]

intent

will be back when lesson 29 - exercise and project monte carlo is done

[Dwlee99]

What the fuck happened while I was gone

[Dwlee99]

wait there was a thread lock?!?!

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: drealz

[Dwlee99]

oh he claimed I told you I wasn't reading
UNVOTE: drealz
this is me not claiming anything

[Dwlee99]

he wasn't even at l-1

[Dwlee99]

varsoon tunnels dreal
dreal tunnels varsoon and beeboy
beeboy tunnels dreal and luna
luna tunnels beeboy

Meanwhile cakez/aero/pie are laughing at you winning the game for them

pisskop, dwlee, nahdia, mhsmith help

hi so I liked aero's catchup posts and cakez has been kinda sketchy but I'm not really sure cause he made some townie posts earlyish and pie has that backup IC claim

[Dwlee99]

A scum doc can also be used to fool gunsmiths or followers. I used it for that in my game. Also vigilante is kinda likely in a role madness. Scum doc seems plausible to me.

[Dwlee99]

Why is pie still scum reading me

[Dwlee99]

Wisdom gives me bad vibes cause I feel like his authoritative tone just saying "no x is scum not y" could be used to deflect lynches off of his scum buddies or something.

[Dwlee99]

I have played with town and scum wisdom.

[Dwlee99]

at least I think I've played with scum wisdom

[Dwlee99]

it's just weird

[Dwlee99]

wait wtf I'm not in a hood

[Dwlee99]

I'm not in a hood with pisskop either. Apparently he claimed that???

[Dwlee99]

I'm in a neighborhood with Pisskop and Dwlee. This is largely why I understand that Dwlee has, at least, a little more of a handle on the game than what seems evident in the game thread.

Varsoon also suggested you posted in said hood @Dwlee

what no I don't have any pts

[Dwlee99]

oh I just checked turns out I do have a hood

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: cakez

[Dwlee99]

I'm fine with drealz or cakez

[Dwlee99]

u are da dwlee

oiduohv

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: drealz
beepbopbamlookatthatlamb

[Dwlee99]

You idiots really need me to do this?
I'm VT so your role madness theories are irrelevant.

Role madness always has at least one vt dumbie

[Dwlee99]

Like p much always. And there is a VT sample role pm in the opening thing.

[Dwlee99]

Role Madness refers to a type of game where most or all of the players have power roles; that is, there are few to no true Vanilla Townies. Because there are so many power roles, the veracity or effectiveness of Night Actions is very difficult to determine without knowledge of what the other players did. Role Madness games have been known to include unique roles designed by the moderator's whim as well, further increasing the potential for confusion.

blop

[Dwlee99]

I once had a partner gladiate me. We won.

I caught you Im so mad nahdia Im still mad I will never not be mad.
My reads right now are pisskop town dreal scum varsoon townish cakez scum wisdom eh?? beeboy town luna town gamma null nahdia null

[Dwlee99]

Okay, dwlee is very likely scum. I made a similar comment and only drealz commented.

I know I'm not playing well right now but really??
You think this means anything??

Pie you think drealz is scum right?

[Dwlee99]

I jut want drealz hammered

[Dwlee99]

Dwlee is lurking and not doing anything notable, if this continues I would lynch him tomorrow and I do think him forgetting about being a neighbor is something that is more likely to happen if he was scum. But I already said Dwlee gets easier to read later in the game so I don't mind waiting in all honesty.

I'm offended

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: cakez

[Dwlee99]

dwlee more waffly then a Waffle House

I'm fine with drealz or cakez

[Dwlee99]

I'm willing to move back to drealz but cakez made a shit post about drealz.

[Dwlee99]

This is the bullshit where noob scum gets wagoned, the scum team just tells them to wait it out and not do something too dumb, and then the scum team somehow gets a mislynch. Source: Cyberpunk
VOTE: drealz

[Dwlee99]

all the people wanting to wagon me are dumb and there's probably one or two scum in there

[Dwlee99]

all the people wanting to wagon me are dumb and there's probably one or two scum in there

This is the kind of vague shit scum throws out trying to diffuse pressure

this is the kind of snarky bullshit scum says to discredit town

[Dwlee99]

This game reeks of day one cyberpunk.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: drealz

[Dwlee99]

all the people wanting to wagon me are dumb and there's probably one or two scum in there

This is the kind of vague shit scum throws out trying to diffuse pressure

this is the kind of snarky bullshit scum says to discredit town

this is a scum post

all the people wanting to wagon me are dumb and there's probably one or two scum in there

This is the kind of vague shit scum throws out trying to diffuse pressure

this is the kind of snarky bullshit scum says to discredit town

What is there to discredit? You literally didn't mention a single name lol.

just my slot in general

[Dwlee99]

after dreal flips town I call dibs on I told you so tomorrow

And then theres the obvious WKing and again nobody bats an eye

As if its not crystal clear that dreal is flipping town and cakez knows it

I batted an eye >_>

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: cakez

[Dwlee99]

Almost everyone: I'd be up for voting Cakez
and yet we can't get a wagon going on him

[Dwlee99]

nope

[Dwlee99]

why

[Dwlee99]

probably not

[Dwlee99]

guys vote varsoon

Because _____?
Like, it seems even more random than usual to just be voting a 0 poster.

my role pm makes me believe varsoon is probably scum

What did you mean in this post?

3 person hood, thought pisskop was town. Varsoon probable scum therefore early

[Dwlee99]

Pretty sure this isnt auto win yet

[Dwlee99]

With the roleblocking we are getting at most one clear.

[Dwlee99]

vc 1.12

Varsoon

(2):

Aeronaut,

drealmerz7

SirCakez (2):

Wisdom

,

Dwlee99

dwlee99

(1):

SirCakez

drealmerz7

(7):

Varsoon

,

mhsmith0

, pisskop,

pieguyn, beeboy, Gamma Emerald, Nahdia

beeboy (1):

Luna Fox

Not Voting:

None

With

13

alive,

7

to lynch.

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-09 11:09:14).

This is the prime scum zone

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: beeboy

[Dwlee99]

I actually bus as scum so

[Dwlee99]

you guys aren't even considering the hood composition.

[Dwlee99]

UNVOTE:

[Dwlee99]

The hoods:
Me, Pisskop, Varsoon
Pisskop, Wisdom, Beeboy

Both have one flipped scum. I know I'm town and I think pisskop is town. And I don't think that all 3 scum would be neighbors.

[Dwlee99]

Pie I know I haven't played well but you can't argue that makes me scum at all.

[Dwlee99]

Pie I know I haven't played well but you can't argue that makes me scum at all.

What an awful post

Lynching dwlee and vigging beeboy sounds good to me.

nope

[Dwlee99]

I just read through the neighborhood again and pisskop is definitely not scum. He was using his info of their not being that third hood to try to read me.
I think it could only really be gamma though. Pisskop is making an interesting case for possibly nahdia/pie team and it can make sense. Nahdia doesnt reveal cause 'saving it for pie' and then she never dies. I think though that if nahdia and pie are fake claiming and they make it to lylo we can force nahdia to reveal. (Or the day before lylo)

[Dwlee99]

you didnt /s!! :OO

[Dwlee99]

youre all p dumb lol

[Dwlee99]

Oh wellz.
Not sure who scum is but I am really really sure pisskop is town.

[Dwlee99]

Lynching Nahdia to force pie to confirm could work

[Dwlee99]

I don't think you're scum, nahdia, I think pie is lol

[Dwlee99]

So what, you think they're scum with a backup IC fakeclaim for some reason, who claimed it despite how insanely risky that is?

how is that risky?

[Dwlee99]

They wouldn't know there is a IC though.

[Dwlee99]

lit

oops I read pisskop wrong

le shrug