Mini #534 - Vegetable Mafia (Game Over!)

[ryan]

Vote: thinktank

Because I can

[ryan]

A growing bandwagon with no info is NOT fun. Also has everyone checked in to the thread yet? That would be another reason to slow down bandwagons.

[ryan]

Oman: Come on now, we don't even have everyone checking in to the thread yet and you seem REAL quick to start a bandwagon on somebody. Why not get everyone into the thread and than you can bandwagon till your heart is content.

[ryan]

destructor is onto something
soupfly is clearly scum

unvote, vote: soupfly

Um.........destructor isn't voting soupfly (as of Post 40)

[ryan]

destructor is onto something
soupfly is clearly scum

unvote, vote: soupfly

I'd still like an explanation from you on why you said this (when it's not true) and voted this way? Since we're starting to roll now

Unvote

[ryan]

Ryan...can you post your role pm?

Was that at all worth a post?

[ryan]

NORTHJAYHAWK NEEDS A BANDWAGON, HE WANT ONE!

Are you intentionally trying to act like a jester?

[ryan]

NORTHJAYHAWK NEEDS A BANDWAGON

QFT

How is a bandwagon going to get us information. Didn't he just post that he'd be gone for a couple of days? That doesn't give the guy much of a chance to defend himself. Why are you hot to bandwagon somebody that is going to be away? Looking for an easy lynch scum?

[ryan]

So you're saying bandwagon somebody that can't be here to defend themselves? That makes ZERO sense to me Phate. I am a believer that bandwagons on people get them talking and the more they talk the easier it is for them to slip up and give us information

[ryan]

Sorry Phate, I disagree with you. I find that scum will out themselves alot quicker than town power roles when it comes to wagons. I will agree that newbies tend to out themselves alot faster than vets. I still don't understand your unvote and switch to me, care to explain?

[ryan]

Newbies (that I've played with on this site) panic when under pressure and tend to out their roles early under bandwagons. Vets on the otherhand have no problem with pressure when wagons are presented on them and are alot more difficult to get to slip up. I don't know why that had nothing to do with anything as it's a point I was making about bandwagons and how they are used.

[ryan]

Y: Actually that's why I think a bandwagon on an already shown silent player (who said they'd be gone) is rather useless. I'd rather bandwagon somebody active. I do see your point as scum could pick this chance to hop on the bandwagon knowing that the person can't defend themselves.

[ryan]

Vote: ryan

The same question could be asked of why you're voting me

[ryan]

I think you're over-reacting to that.

No, I'm actually asking the same question as you were.

[ryan]

We actually have a dangerous waggon here.

Could every one voting ryan explain why are they doing so?

That's a great question

[ryan]

ryan, out of the people that stacked on you, who appears most scummy to you and why?

Destructor and Oman both strike me as scummy and wouldn't shock me if they were a scumpair.

[ryan]

Their play so far is just so far out there it makes me feel like they are doing it both on purpose to throw off the rest of the town

[ryan]

No, you misunderstand. I know you find them scummy. I'm asking if you see anything that suggests a link between them.

I believe their votes on me were FAR from random. They both have been playing so strangely that I feel as though it was talked about before we started (in their pregame chat) While I'm at it.........

Unvote

Either is going to be getting my vote but not just yet.

[ryan]

Why are you holding off on the vote? What are you waiting for?

I'd like to find their partner (or partners) first. I also want to see voting trends and hear from more of our players before I throw a vote out there out of the random stage.

[ryan]

So you're suggesting that I anticipated that the mod would ignore the rules for me, or something to that effect?

Why is that so impossible to believe?

[ryan]

Vote: destructor

I think this last exchange shows us scum. Time to hang scum man

[ryan]

I believe destructor about the vote because of posts 83-84.
Although I believe that he didn't unvote on purpose, I think it was very probable that the mod wouldn't notice it, so it was a dangerous move.

I checked, and the vote count was wrong. Not only the mistake with destructor, but other stuff too.

@ kravhen: This is the second time your reaction is "Wow! We shouldn't lynch yet! Unvote", although your vote wasn't on any of the wagons, and the second has only three votes. Could you please explain why are you so over reactive?

Crub has only four posts, on which the only thing he added to the game was his vote on ryan (with no reason). I'll keep my vote on him.

This is a newbie game, so im letting all ya newbs know how games usually roll here on mafiascum. Lynch on page 4-6: BAD, too quick. We should always make most of our days, IMO. Shed some light on the lurkers, try to get a clear image of EVERYONE, not just pick a couple of people who felt like they could be scum in some way, twist a little things to make it more convenient in our mind, lynch and go to sleep.

What page it is has nothing to do with lynching or no lynching, stop trying to steer the town in your direction to follow you. Oman and destructor have both done enough to both be lynched at this moment (asking to quote a PM? Not following the rules for unvote/voting?) Both can be used to throw off the town HENCE being anti town. I do have a problem with quick lynches but I DON'T have a problem applying pressure to two completely scummy people in this game. (is it strange Oman has become REAL quiet all of a sudden?)

[ryan]

You lied about your voting methods, and now you're gonna hang because of it scum man. (Notice how I'll give reasoning for voting, take a few lessons on that)

[ryan]

Unvote

You know what? I don't really want to be on the same wagon ryan's on.

MOD, votecount please?

What the heck are you talking about?

[ryan]

Should we just pretend that you completely changed your mind from 129 and 130 in a matter of 15 posts?

[ryan]

You seem absolutely positive that destructor is scum. You've given no evidence beyond blandly echoing others. You're pushing for a lynch on page 6. You claim that Oman and destructor's behaviours have both been scummy enough for a lynch.

I'm asking for a votecount to make sure that I don't put you at L-1 when I vote you.

Echoing? So if the reasons for my vote are the same as others I should just make up another reason to vote him? He never gave a reason to vote me, he jumped on the bandwagon with NO reasoning, he than acted as though he didn't know he voted me and hasn't really responded to anyone's questioning. I'm not 1000% sure he's scum but he and Oman are a GREAT place to start.

[ryan]

He has STILL failed to give a reason for voting me and now you're giving him a free pass and jumping on my wagon (or so you say) 143 had not a darn thing in it to "drop your jaw" I said that he lied about his voting methods and it's obvious he's hiding something by his lack of answering questions directed toward him (look back through the thread man and check it out)

[ryan]

So now I have three problems with this post:

You lied about your voting methods, and now you're gonna hang because of it scum man. (Notice how I'll give reasoning for voting, take a few lessons on that)

1. I believe destructor didn't lie, so there's no case there.
2. You're not giving real, concrete reasons. Just a vogue assumption.
3. You're too ready to lynch some one because of your failed reasoning.

1: I do NOT have absolute proof of anyone in this game except I'm not scum, that's the only person's allignment I know. Never did I say I had absolute proof, just tells that make me believe destructor and Oman are scummy.

2: YOUR opinion is that he didn't lie, mine is that he did. So it's a wash. You have your thoughts as do I with mine. You saying there is no case isn't fair as you are basically not going to listen to possible reasoning.

3: I believe the vote hopping, the lying (lie=anti town) and the willingness to get a lynch (as Oman and destructor were very early) lead me to believe that we have two scum working together to get a townie (me) lynched. If you feel I'm so gun ho to get somebody lynched what's the difference to what they did?

4: When I feel as though I have found scum, than you are darn right I'm ready to lynch, are you saying if you were very certain about somebodies scum tendencies you wouldn't?

5: You seem to be a little pig headed when stating opinions. You have to be open to all aspects in these games to be successful. I want more discussion from others (these last few pages have been dominated by a few players and not ALL the players) I'm fine with waiting to hear from others but blanket stating me as somebody who wants people lynched immediately isn't fair.

[ryan]

Personally, I'd rather have a town idiot alive than an intelligent scum alive.

Forgot to address this point, a town idiot can be just as dangerous as intelligent scum as town idiots can help get other town players lynched just the same as scum night killing certain players.

[ryan]

What exactly do I have to full of revenge about? Oman and destructor tried to set and have me lynched, it didn't work and now they are both back peddling. Fairly obvious I would say. I'm going after scum, not revenge

[ryan]

Actually anti town DOES mean the same thing as scummy. Not helping the town is anti town and if you aren't helping than you must be hurting right?

[ryan]

I'm not going to waste pages arguing but if you aren't helping the town than you're hurting the town and that is as anti town as they come.

[ryan]

I'm not trying to get somebody lynched for a past game, that's complete crap posted by you to paint me as somebody trying to lynch somebody for no reason. B.S statement

[ryan]

And trying to get someone lynched because they make fun of you for being a moron in a previous game is both anti-town and pro-scum.

If this was an example, than state it, you make it sound like I'm on somebody due to them "making fun of me" which is completely crap.

[ryan]

There's no need to start swearing Phate, I asked you a simple question

[ryan]

I'm not trying to get somebody lynched for a past game, that's complete crap posted by you to paint me as somebody trying to lynch somebody for no reason. B.S statement

E-x-a-m-p-l-e... And you were the one to say that other people should be open-minded...

You're taking this game too personally. If we all were against you, you'd be lynched already.

All this waste of time is anti-town, but it's not because you're scummy, just because you let your emotions react faster than your reason.

Thank you Dr. Phil.

[ryan]

Ok I've read back up.


ryan, you've made your case against destructor, don't get huffy when people won't follow you. Your suspicion against Oman is eyebrow raising and flimsy at best (maybe OMGUS'y or maybe prior involvement?).

I don't remember being "huffy" but I'll move on. Oman self voted (why) Asked for my role PM and has started more bandwagons in the limited pages we've had that has been down right silly. I disagree it's OMGUS or has anything to do with any other game we are currently in together.

[ryan]

I don't think ryan is scum. I think he's just a townie that doesn't know what he's doing.
.

Listen, I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you but let me just clue you in on the fact that I've played plenty of games (check my Wiki entry) and I do in fact know what I'm doing.

[ryan]

So how is creating chaos helping us find scum?

[ryan]

ryan, I asked you a question back on page 8. Can you answer it?

I believe you asked EVERYONE a question on page 8

As for what I think about thinktank, kravhen and Crub? thinktank brings up a great point about the bandwagon on me being scummy as I thought the same thing, I get a pretty pro town vibe from him. Kravhen was pretty quick to vote hop on the first page and his post 42 wasn’t even true (looked like somebody trying to ride the coat tails of somebody else for a reason to vote) Crub’s play has been erratic at best and for now I have neither a pro town or anti town read on him.

[ryan]

WhoMe?: Can you explain your vote (for reasons that I have to admit made sense to me) and than an unvote and you saying he's a townie just two posts later?

[ryan]

I'm just having a problem with the idea of claiming being brought up so early, feels like scum trying to rolefish and find who to pick off at night

[ryan]

Phate: How do you know what people have and don't have in this game?

[ryan]

Phate: I still don't understand HOW you know what the scum got or didn't get as far as safe claims. Unless you were scum you wouldn't know that and I agree with WhoMe? you've slipped up twice now in this game and that's enough for me to drop a vote on you. You knowing what scum safeclaims are would make you scum wouldn't it? Why would a townie get a safeclaim? You are too inconsistent for me to feel good about you being town

Unvote/Vote: Phate

[ryan]

Phate: I still don't understand HOW you know what the scum got or didn't get as far as safe claims. Unless you were scum you wouldn't know that and I agree with WhoMe? you've slipped up twice now in this game and that's enough for me to drop a vote on you. You knowing what scum safeclaims are would make you scum wouldn't it? Why would a townie get a safeclaim? You are too inconsistent for me to feel good about you being town

Unvote/Vote: Phate

It was already explained that he meant something different than what is called in the game a "Safe Claim".
I'm getting the feeling that you're trying to get the pressure on some one just to get it off your back. I don't like it.

Could you please tell me what was the first slip-up WhoMe? was referring to? The one you say you're agreeing with.

FoS: ryan

too. I can't decide if one of them is scum, trying to get the other hanged, or are they both scum, trying to distance from each other.

Unvote.

My vote on Crub has no real meaning at the moment.

1st slip was using “safe claims” and acting like they were known to everyone when if there were safe claims only the mafia would know them (not townies)

2nd slip was saying that he didn’t know what safe claims were BUT yet he just used it in post 245 to attempt to explain himself

Also there were two votes on me, I don’t know how that is considered heat or pressure on me, care to explain?

[ryan]

You can explain your "slips" all you want but they are called slips for a reason, they helped out you as a scum. As for your voting on me...........I wasn't questioning it, you've made up your reasons and plan on sticking to them, that's fine, you're wrong, but it's your opinion. I was asking Y a question in the above response to his question

[ryan]

Phate: You can flip and change things all you want, a slip up is a slip up, period. You made it, don't be upset at me for outing yourself. BTW, confirming votes are a very desperate way to get actual townies to follow you. Try evidence in getting people to vote with you.

[ryan]

Phate: I don't buy your explanation, I think you messed up and now are scrambling to cover your ass. My response was NOT whatever you are scum, my response was you messed up, you outed yourself and your fellow scum's safe claims (which we appreciate for later in the game when claims become more consistent) You've never questioned me on your reasoning for why I'm alleged scum, so what do I have to answer to you? Did I miss a question somewhere?

[ryan]

Encrypted mass claim? Explain

[ryan]

I'd like to know where's ryan and why isn't he answering my question.

What question?

[ryan]

That's a completely false statement hence why I did not answer it. Just because I see other people's point of view and agree doesn't make me scummy. Quote one spot where I screwed up a point made by somebody else and used it as mine. So basically what Y is saying is that if I see something that somebody else saw and agree with it that I'm scummy? That's completely bogus.

[ryan]

Y: I don't know what you are trying to do but you've quoted something we've already discussed. If you have a new question you'd like answered, please just ask it.

[ryan]

He's trying to get me to slip up and say something scummy, yet I've clarified myself as much as I can to him. If he doesn't understand, not much more I can do.

[ryan]

Safe claims IS a game term! Come on Y, you're seriously reaching here.

[ryan]

Thank you, Y. That makes it a good deal clearer.

Looking back, I think its clear Phate had no idea what "Safe Claim" meant in our terms.

There are a few phrasing oddities based on his claim and a few posts after it, but not the way ryan has held on to his second slip.

What?

[ryan]

I thought it would be nice to be confirmed.

That doesn't confirm you though. Being confirmed usually happens when you're lynched (unless a cop gets a verdict on you first)

[ryan]

If all vanillas were lettuce, and nobody had mentioned that yet, and I claimed lettuce, that would confirm me.

That's a pretty large IF don't ya think?

[ryan]

Why WhoMe?

Ryan failed to answer my questions.

What part of me answering your questions are you missing?

[ryan]

The part in which you provide an answer.

"You're wrong so I won't answer" isn't an answer, but dodging the question.

We had a two page debate back and forth and because you don't like what I had to say doesn't mean I'm not answering a question.

[ryan]

And for somebody who said he made a slip you're hammering pretty hard on something I already agreed with. Why is that Y?

[ryan]

EDIT: He=Phate

[ryan]

How do you know what I understand and what I don't understand? I already said that I believed Phate slipped twice and why I believed that. You got pissy and said that I couldn't agree with other people's thoughts (which is crap) and now you're saying I don't understand what I disagreed with? What kind of game are you playing?

[ryan]

thinktank: The strangest part is watching one poster defend another this early in the game. I'd like to move on to actual questioning of our lurkers but Y apparently won't stop.

[ryan]

Not being pro town IS anti town Phate no matter how you spin it.

[ryan]

If you aren't being apart of the solution than you're part of the problem and YOU have been part of the problem.

[ryan]

first I'm still not in the first post.... secondly I'm here I just dont have anything to add at the moment

Nobody looks scummy enough to you to vote either?

[ryan]

But there has been things to discuss

[ryan]

The lettuce claim for one

[ryan]

If I have to go back through and litterally pick out things for you to discuss I'm not going to waste my time. It's a game of discussion and if you don't feel like there is anything here to talk about, so be it.

[ryan]

And some people stalk you between games, no less

ryan: So discuss something. Right now it looks like you are trying to appear active and participatory. What's on your mind?

Appear active? I have been active and I have been discussing

[ryan]

Unvote/Vote: Oman

[ryan]

EDIT

Unvote/Vote: Oman

[ryan]

Thats a fair call.

Exactly, now who are your partners?

[ryan]

Wrong (and I don't need to post it twice for emphasis)

[ryan]

What happened to this game?

Non participation

[ryan]

Now you are just being an idiot

[ryan]

Oman hasn't presented anything to show I deserve to be lynched.

[ryan]

You're voting me for arguing? Come on people there is no logic in these votes one bit.

[ryan]

thinktank, even that is illogical, if i were scum why would you trust who I said my buddies were.

Why would two people jump on your opinion that quickly? It's a valid point and one I'm surprised you didn't see

[ryan]

Phate: You need to settle down, put down the bottle and listen. tdp and Y were two that agreed with no basis, I did NOT include you in this as you've at least given reasoning (not correct) but you've at least given reasoning. Stop taking this game so seriously.

[ryan]

You need to take a day or so away from this game young man, you're taking things WAY too seriously and completely looking like an ass right now. Walk away and clear your head for a little bit and than come back and post ok? The way two people voiced no opinion and agreed with somebody just to lynch looks scummy, if you don't see that than you haven't played enough games on this site yet.

[ryan]

Thank you for doing nothing to play the game Phate. Being rude doesn't mean you are town Phate, it just means you are an ass.

[ryan]

gorckat: Do you believe that anti town is bad for town? Do you believe distracting is anti town?

[ryan]

I disagree with your term of "latched onto" there is no reason in mafia that opinions can't be agreed upon and that shouldn't be used as reasoning to vote me. I've stated my own thoughts in this game and if those are looked upon as scummy than at least call me out on that instead of just throwing votes on me without giving me a chance to respond.

[ryan]

Neither Oman nor destructor were close to an "easy lynch" at the time of said discussion, if they were at -2 or -1 and I was pushing than sure I'd agree with you but they weren't close on either debate.

[ryan]

We called it out a few pages ago, which were written more than a RL week ago. You had plenty of time, on which your response was "Your wrong, so I won't answer your questions" and "You're scum for wanting me to answer your questions, so I won't answer them for you, scum".

WHERE did I say that? Quote it. I want to know exactly where I said I wouldn't answer your questions because it was scummy.

[ryan]

That's a completely false statement hence why I did not answer it. Just because I see other people's point of view and agree doesn't make me scummy. Quote one spot where I screwed up a point made by somebody else and used it as mine. So basically what Y is saying is that if I see something that somebody else saw and agree with it that I'm scummy? That's completely bogus.

I then quote the post on which I already pointed out what I was referring to, to which his answer is:

Y: I don't know what you are trying to do but you've quoted something we've already discussed. If you have a new question you'd like answered, please just ask it.

and

He's trying to get me to slip up and say something scummy, yet I've clarified myself as much as I can to him. If he doesn't understand, not much more I can do.

But he never clarified, because "it's wrong".

Thank you for omitting all the exchanges we had where I clarified what I was doing

[ryan]

as far as the game is concerned i'm comfortable with my whome vote.

the ryan wagon, i'm not so sure. my inclination is townie. i think our scum are flying under the radar.

I don't think you've made a case for WhoMe?.

What makes you think ryan is town?

What makes you think I'm not?

[ryan]

What makes you think I'm not?

He wasn't speaking to you.

WHAT is your deal?

[ryan]

I read the game and have a few comments.

I am somewhat suspicious of Phate's weird roleclaim gambit, but I think it's less likely to make him scum. My guess is that the scum don't have a safe claim of the sort being mentioned, because all claiming the same vegetable would be a tell in itself.

I'm voting ryan, based on his actions and on this quote:

He's trying to get me to slip up and say something scummy, yet I've clarified myself as much as I can to him. If he doesn't understand, not much more I can do.

Why would answering questions create a situation where a townie would "slip up and say something scummy"? If it's not clear, then clarify it. If you don't, because you are worried you might "slip up and say something scummy", chances are you're scum.

vote: ryan

Unvote/Vote: Ryan

Hammer Time. Peace out and see ya all on the flip side.

[ryan]

I hate ryan.

But I love you Oman

[ryan]

OR a valid question