Micro 662: ArcAngel's Twin Trap Mafia (Ended)

[Sleepless Assassin]

Vote misa

Throwing shade and then playing the "caught for the wrong reason" game.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Vote misa

Throwing shade and then playing the "caught for the wrong reason" game.

>throwing shade
>admitted inthread that I reworded the post weirdly, allowing for misunderstandings which can happen. in a text-based game
>uh

Admitting things doesn't make them town.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Vote misa

Throwing shade and then playing the "caught for the wrong reason" game.

>throwing shade
>admitted inthread that I reworded the post weirdly, allowing for misunderstandings which can happen. in a text-based game
>uh

Admitting things doesn't make them town.

But does it make them scum?

It doesn't, but I've played a lot of mafia and her posts are giving me a lot of gut scum vibes.

Let me try to verbalize it.

Interesting exchange

This is a very empty post, but implies suspicion on at least one, if not both, players. Yet the attack is soft enough that it's easy to either back off or choose a side later. This can mean either "both players are scummy", "one of these players is scummy", or "this may be nothing, but I'm watching it". It's just too easy to decide later what you meant and go with the flow or go with what will seem less scummy. A town player is more likely to...commit may be the wrong word, but at least tell us what they are thinking at that moment. For example, why is it interesting? What does it mean that it's interesting? I get that it's early and people will say this is RVS and doesn't mean anything, but misa saw enough to point it out, so I'd like to know why.

I'm actually reminded of the strategy that scum sometimes use where they vote their scumpartner as a means of distancing

Now we get the "why" and it wouldn't be so scummy on it's own, as wrong as it may be. There were no signs of distancing and it's way too early to expect much, if any, distancing anyway. But the real question is whether misa believes there was distancing, and again, the "why" factor is missing. We don't see why misa sees distancing rather than typical early game banter or even genuine suspicion. There's no effort to determine what is going on. Just more weak implied suspicion for no apparent reason.

I mean.It may mean something but it may mean not; I recognize that LUV's/mine's vote can equally be, uhh, that.

And now that she's been called out, she starts to back off, like I mentioned above. She's now in the mindset of defending herself and forgets all about her attack, if it even was one. A town player would probably still wonder if there is something there as far as the players she thought were distancing where instead of suddenly dropping it when it looks bad on her.

okay thenit's a small, slightly unreliable scumtellthis scumtell kind of depends on yours/tb's flip and the reason why i'm not pursuing it any further (hence my RvS vote) is that i dont like scumhunting before flips, on page frickin one

Then there's the excuse that it was rvs. No. You had a game related reason for making the vote. It may have been weak, but it wasn't rvs. But she chooses to discredit herself completely rather than describe more about what she saw that may have come from scum.

I  just realized people from here scumread uncertainty

whelp

First of all, no, it's not the uncertainty. It's the lack of anything backing suspicion that makes it feel more like an attempt to make people seem scummy than genuine suspicion. Second of all, this shows that defensive mentality again. It's "how do I seem to everyone else?", not "who is scum?".

Also notice, that misa's posts have been entirely defensive since she was questioned about her distancing comment. Not one post after that is scumhunting. It's just her trying to explain herself, which yes I understand she needs to do, but it's not a substitute for scumhunting at the same time

[Sleepless Assassin]

*shrug*

Fully expected that to be honest. It comes with my style.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Hey Pine, if that's your first serious vote, does that mean this was a joke or...?

Ugh, equivocating. Either you meant it or you didn't.

I'm out of RVS. This guy is scum.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Way to take things out of context. That was merely the start of a conversation in which I ultimately decided I was misreading Misa. As for 'first' serious vote, I'd forgotten about it. 54 is my second serious vote, first I'm going to stand by.

Fair enough on the forgetting, but you're reaching with the "out of context" thing. It was a mistake on your end, not something mallicious on mine.

Misa, why was it "interesting" then? and why bring up distancing if you didn't think that's what was going on?

If you're suspecting me just because I'm not scumhunting

If anyone thinks that, they didn't read my post.

As for the tunneling thing, funny buzzword choice. it's early enough that only you, pine, and myself have really done anything noteworthy so you're effectively calling me scum for focusing on you instead of Pine. i'd call that omgus, but that's kind of a buzzword too.

[Sleepless Assassin]

I asked for clarification on an inconsistency. The context following it doesn't show that you forgot about it. it shows that you moved past it, but it doesn't meanyou didn't make the vote. it should be easy to see why i was confused.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Misa, I don't dispute anything in post 63, but you haven't changed my mind on anything either. I also just re-read 58 and I get what you're saying but that's just not the vibe I get from your earlier posting. it feels more like something you came up with later.

Lil, I agree completely about defensiveness in general. There are a few different types of defensiveness though and the defensiveness instead of doing anything else feels like scum who doesn't know what to say and uses it to be active. The vote on me after I called her out for not scumhunting fits perfectly with that.

Misa's post 69 is just... like... if that's not scummy I don't know what is.

Pine, defensiveness definitely can be a personality tell, or hell even a town tell. I just don't think it is here. It's case by case like most things in mafia.

Misa, any power role who plays differently because they are a power role is doing town a disservice. That's a good way for scum to catch on to who power roles are. (There are exceptions to this, but probably not in this setup)

[Sleepless Assassin]

Also please try not to bring up power roles in the future. Inexperienced power roles could respond in a way that gives them away

[Sleepless Assassin]

Well, the game is coming to life so we must be doing something right.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Sleepless Assassin should agree with this vote. Bandwagons are good for making games come to life!

VOTE: Sleepless Assassin

This is true

[Sleepless Assassin]

VOTE: Pine

Misa and SA are town.
I don't like Pine's behavior around their argument.

Hmm. Why is misa town? What about pine's behavior don't you like? or is it just that you disagree about bussing?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Hey Kop, got any reads yet?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Kop:

Hey Kop, got any reads yet?

I don't like being ignored

[Sleepless Assassin]

Kop:

Hey Kop, got any reads yet?

I don't like being ignored

Right now, I haven't got any solid reads in my mind to put forward.

Gut feelings is that Milkshake, Lil Uzi Vert, are town. But that's just gut.

Could you try to verbalize those gut reads and maybe re-read and come up with at least one guess for scum?

----------------------

As much as I disagree with milkshake's attitude towards random wagons and apathy, he seems to believe it. To be clear, yes it advances the game to have early wagons. But at some point, you need to develop reads and push them. But I don't see the scum motivation in him pushing this stance, so it's more likely that he genuinely believes what he is saying and is probably town.

[Sleepless Assassin]

It's Day 1. Why are we even talking about teams and partners. We should be lynching the person most likely to be scum and figuring out the rest later.

Even putting that aside though...

Teams are pretty hard to figure out when we have people who haven't made a meaningful contribution yet.

[Sleepless Assassin]

"Reads" on day one are less accurate than random chance.

Oh. You're one of those. You and I aren't going to work very well together this game, so hopefully you are scum lol

[Sleepless Assassin]

Don't confuse playstyle with scummy behavior, as much as I really disagree with milkshake's comment as well :p

Oh, I know. I'm actually townreading him right now.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Pine, I agree with most of your wall post about milkshake, but why does any of that actually make him scum? It seems like you are just interested in lynching poor play with that vote.

Thinkbig, get better. =/

Also,

Mod, could you prod Kop please?

^I'm still waiting for him to respond to me.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Kop, gut is triggered by something and it's not hard to find what when you look for it. I did it with my misa read. And again you've failed to even try to guess at one scum, even when prompted. You feel, to me, like scum who is trying to appear involved yet isn't invested and who is trying not to step on toes and make enemies. You seem like your goal is to be careful not to be lynched rather than to find scum. That's a scum mindset.

Unvote, Vote Kop

I understand the need to re-read, but I'll be surprised if Kop gives us any sort of natural scum read.

[Sleepless Assassin]

I asked him to explain so I could see a real thought process that doesn't look like a random list of names. It didn't need to be anything significant. Just something to back it and show that when he said he had gut reads, he actually had those reads. Yes, he said "tone", but I wanted something along the lines of "see this post? It kind of feels this way". Anyone can list a few names, call them gut reads, and call it a day. But explaining why you feel that way helps everyoneelse determine whether the reads are genuine or fabricated.

Anyway, that's not even why I'm scumreading him. His play is too careful. He jumped at the chance to call a few people town, but hasn't even implied that anyone could be scum. He seems afraid to get his hands dirty. Like his entire purpose is to not get lynched. I don't see anything to suggest that he's even trying to find scum. I get that it's early, but look at the posts he has made. It's theory talk, responsive posts rather than proactive, and a few gut town reads than he can't even explain.

[Sleepless Assassin]

I'm with Spade on this one, but I think everyone knew that already.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Sorry, got busy. Will be back to normal tomorrow night

[Sleepless Assassin]

Catching up...

Lil, if you think Kop's vote was OMGUS, why do you think he voted milkshake who wasn't actually voting him over arnold or myself? What do you think of his agreeing with my early posts right after I voted him?

Still townreading milkshake.

Can someone explain why spade is scum?

[Sleepless Assassin]

@Mod:

Replace me. I don't feel like I'm doing my best and I'm hurting more than helping. Also this game as a whole disinterests me.

@Everyone:

Good luck!

I suddenly remember why I stopped joining games.

Spade, can you be more specific? I think it's clear that I suspect Kop, townread milkshade, and asked for clarification on why people are voting you.

[Sleepless Assassin]

We could also lynch lil uzi vert (save the mod some work) or do a no lynch.

Normally I'd be cool with that, but I kinda think he was town. Replace outs are so annoying.

Arnold's post about the kop lynch doesn't bother me even outside of the bias that I want kop lynched. Compromising at this point is fine.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Kop is the leading wagon, right? Been a while since the last vote count.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Well, I'll be around tonight, but I'm already voting my top scum read who probably has the best chance to be lynched so I'm not sure how much help I'll be.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Spade, deadline is just hours away. Are you willing to vote kop to avoid a no lynch?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Oh. That's weird. Works for me though. I'm going to bed then.