Mini 1856 - This Mafia Game is for pieguyn (Game Over)

[mhsmith0]

This game is probably actually bastard, time to prove it

VOTE: Remilia Scarlet

[mhsmith0]

Wow holy crap speak a name and five minutes later the player shows up for the first time in a year. The beetlejuicing is real.

[mhsmith0]

Would be funny if remilla was GIF's alt I guess.

[mhsmith0]

drive-by check-in
...

I don't do RVS most of the time, but, hey, for pieguyn, right?

VOTE: pieguyn

What do you do instead?

[mhsmith0]

Works for me, mod already lied about scarlet
VOTE: pieguyn

[mhsmith0]

No, it's lol nup fake role. Come on beeboy.

[mhsmith0]

Choo choo
VOTE: aero
L-2

[mhsmith0]

I can't tell which of bee's posts are serious and which aren't. RIP me.

Town lean on beeboy. Worry about him later.

[mhsmith0]

I can't tell which of bee's posts are serious and which aren't. RIP me.

I only make serious posts and then edit them into shit posts before hitting submit

I fixed your typos

[mhsmith0]

Agree on beeboy, pie claim probably good too. Less sure on Luna/wisdom.

[mhsmith0]

Too bad I can't claim jester then

[mhsmith0]

Smith is town.

Shit-poster town block gogogo

[mhsmith0]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
This is beeboy as scum. IIRC it's his only scum game so far on MS. it's old so not 100% but MUCH different tone and feel to his posts. Beeboy sounds here like he usually does. Therefore probably just town.

[mhsmith0]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
This is beeboy as scum. IIRC it's his only scum game so far on MS. it's old so not 100% but MUCH different tone and feel to his posts. Beeboy sounds here like he usually does. Therefore probably just town.

why do you feel so certain making a body-of-work tone call when the game is just barely out of RVS on page 4?

Therefore probably just town

How certain do you think I am at this juncture? If played w beeboy before, he sounds normal for him, and his scum game didn't. I also took a quick look at gistou but that was a hydra game for him so I'd think less relevant.

[mhsmith0]

How certain do you think I am at this juncture? If played w beeboy before, he sounds normal for him, and his scum game didn't. I also took a quick look at gistou but that was a hydra game for him so I'd think less relevant.

the tone and wording of the post suggest you feel pretty strongly about it, and that your stance is for the most part immutable.

I think it's very early to commit to that kind of strong, "sorted and done" stance. one would usually stop to consider that beeboy might have improved his scum game, or that he was able to temporarily break his tone enough to where he could play a genuine-sounding RVS, and probably declare an initial town read on the slot but not be as sure and continue to pay attention to see what he does/look for off notes later before strongly committing to it.

basically I don't think "tone" is a basis for which most people would feel that comfortable declaring a read on someone immediately after the game started.

Relevant posts:

I can't tell which of bee's posts are serious and which aren't. RIP me.

Town lean on beeboy. Worry about him later.

Agree on beeboy, pie claim probably good too. Less sure on Luna/wisdom.

Smith is town.

Shit-poster town block gogogo

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
This is beeboy as scum. IIRC it's his only scum game so far on MS. it's old so not 100% but MUCH different tone and feel to his posts. Beeboy sounds here like he usually does. Therefore probably just town.

These are the sort of posts that suggest it'd take a fair amount to get me off my town read. Obviously you never lock it in at this stage, but it's a read I'm pretty comfortable with.

Ps hydra games are annoying to ISO because you have to actively sort posts by who signed which instead of just clicking the ISO button and they're all from the same person. Also you can presumably have more direct feedback w your buddies in a hydra compared to most other games. So I might look at it if I start getting beeboy doubts at some point but really not a priority to do.

[mhsmith0]

Vote gamma with me.

Aero thoughts? His opening has kinda sucked too IMO.

[mhsmith0]

Hm
Luna for blind spot scum
VOTE: Luna Fox

Blind spot scum? Clarify what that means.

[mhsmith0]

My problem right now is like almost everyone who's posted has posted something townie, but they can't all be town
And I highly doubt all of the scum are just in the people doing nothing

so
P-edit: actually
VOTE: pisskop

If you're just voting for "not an active poster" why not aero or gamma, people who actively have votes?

[mhsmith0]

Aero's opening indeed sucked but the way he got wagoned so quickly almost feels too easy
If that makes sense

Oh sure it's been a really easy wagon, but why is that indicative either way for him? If he's scum then he could have a buddy bussing, or maybe scum are just inactive so far.

[mhsmith0]

Pisskop is an active poster?

Your justification was seemingly "he's not an active poster". So if all you're doing is voting an inactive (it didn't seem like you had more justification than that), why not vote an inactive that has votes?

[mhsmith0]

guys vote varsoon

Because _____?
Like, it seems even more random than usual to just be voting a 0 poster.

[mhsmith0]

guys vote varsoon

Because _____?
Like, it seems even more random than usual to just be voting a 0 poster.

my role pm makes me believe varsoon is probably scum

[mhsmith0]

cakez is taken in by the jelly monster.

aero is a lurker fuck as scum

Checks aeros ISO... go on...

[mhsmith0]

I skimmed that one, was hilarious. 14v3, town loses anyway. Towns lost ALL of fakegods large dance games too, which is juts strange to me.

[mhsmith0]

that specific post isn't town, I think, I'm town reading him for something entirely unrelated.

Oh but it is!
And i was townreading him since before, so why even bring that up?

no specific reason, I'm just getting a general feel of things.

if your reason for calling the post town is "scum don't question town reads on them", it's one of the easiest things in the world to fake.

Tee-Hee i know things you dont~
You seem to really like to apply your understanding of mafia globally dont you?

This post is susp af

How?

[mhsmith0]

It's a jokey post but I see malice inside it

What in there seems malicious?

[mhsmith0]

Wifom is NAI. Softing role knowledge is also NAI (debatably a bit town indicative if anything).

What are your thoughts on the other people who've been posting?

[mhsmith0]

Well beeboy needs to explain that townread on Wisdom better

How was his townread there unclear? Like, it seems pretty obvious you disagree, but beeboy has been quite clear on what his reasoning is.

FWIW I've seen similar logic before
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8135714
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8135936

when DGB used that when describing xkfyu (both were town - and FWIW, that game is still my personal trigger warning; my WIM has been like permanently damaged by how ridiculously lazy that town was)

In this case, I'd agree w Wisdom that it's fakeable, but I don't really see the problem with at least giving minor town points for doing something that, while fakable, is presumably something he might at least think twice about doing while scum, but would probably just go ahead and state straight out as town.

Also

Why would you ISO Aero though?

answer this Wisdom

i dont answer to dumb questions

is a pretty decent response to your dumb question. He said

i iso'd aero

in response to

Wisdom - how do you know if your vote "still looks good" if you haven't seen what has progressed? It looks good like a coat of paint that hasn't weathered yet, or what?? weakassshit thatis

So your question was really easy to answer yourself, which suggests that you are either too lazy to go back and figure it out on your own, or that you're just doing busywork.

[mhsmith0]

lots of scumpings of smith,

like he's trying to find which agenda to push

- plus buddying to beeboy on a few occasions at least

this is the sort of thing which begs for examples and explanation.

It's also strange that you'd see my "buddying" and presume that beeboy and I were wolf bros. Do you think that teammates interact with each other the way that beeboy and I have? Can you provide any examples of this sort of thing this early in a game?

[mhsmith0]

I asked that question because why the fuck would he only ISO Aero?

because he's lazy?

[mhsmith0]

I mean, Aero was who he voted, and then someone asked him if the vote was still good, and he was like "yep" and "because I ISO'd". I don't actually see what's suspicious about it. If you want to call it NAI and a playstyle thing fine, but I don't see the scum pings from it at all.

[mhsmith0]

Dude, drealmerz literally asked him in 238. I even quoted it in my response a few posts ago.

Now, the actual sequence was
Wisdom: vote still good
dreal: why
Wisdom: I ISO'd

But nevertheless, there's nothing fundamentally suspicious about it from Wisdom, and I don't understand why you thhink it was suspicious. Wisdom was being lazy, and half-assedly ISO'd Aero's three shitty posts and didn't bother reading much of anything else, and then posted to that effect.

[mhsmith0]

Like, if you want to push on Wisdom for what is essentially null behavior, then I'd think it'd be the result of you having a bunch of decent town reads and having him in a "others" pile. If that was your thought process that'd make sense, but for that itself to be a ping on you is weird.

FWIW, you've also had a weird vote/push on Luna, for what also seems to be a playstyle thing for her (her playstyle is to do town reads and then vote in her "others" pile, so 189 in that context is pushing on something null; and I still don't get what you were on in 134/138/140).

On the upside it seems like you're trying, but your pushes and reads have been nearly nonsensical, which makes me think that you're PROBABLY just the bait of the game.

[mhsmith0]

He wasn't asked IF, he was asked WHY.
And if he ISOed Aero, why not ISO a TR to get some extra opinions on things?

he was asked why his vote was still good, his answer was it was still good because he ISO'd. I fail to see how that doesn't make sense.

As far as ISO'ing a TR, he basically said he was going to be lazy, and has in fact continued to be lazy. If your question is "why isn't he working harder", then that's a playstyle thing. Some people are lazy, either in spurts or over a longer period of time. If you want to push on him for being lazy, then substantiate enough town reads to make it reasonable to push him essentially just for not being a town read. If you want to pretend that his laziness is itself meaningfully AI, then I doubt that people are going to follow you.

[mhsmith0]

Actually I'll edit the above a bit. He's been a bit low on content but hasn't been flagrantly lazy.

His posts from 242 on have actual opinions in them, even if the reasoning behind them is sometimes opaque.

[mhsmith0]

That said, Gamma, given your opinion of Wisdom, do you think Cakey is therefore town? That's Wisdom's current target; if Wisdom is scum, has he spewed Cakey town? Is that distancing? Do you have any opinion on what he's actually pushing right now?

[mhsmith0]

Wisdom isn't normally a lazy player though.
Maybe there's something else going on?

Here's Wisdom in GoT (the game I was with him in)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
He doesn't seem horribly differnet here to there. Which game(s) have you played with him before that he seems differnet from?

[mhsmith0]

I don't really understand why selective isoing is a sign of anything other than laziness. If there's something more there I think you need to explain it.

[mhsmith0]

Well I think gamma actually believes the silly argument he's making, but that doesn't change it being a silly argument.

[mhsmith0]

@Luna: You say that you make mistakes like these fairly often. Is there a game in particular that you feel represents that? I don't remember you substantially misreading anyone's posts in open 646, and I also don't remember you being OMGUSy there (despite Transcend spending a lot of the game pushing pretty hard on you, for largely garbage reasons). Is that also part of your meta that just happened not to show up that game?

[mhsmith0]

...But nevertheless, there's nothing fundamentally suspicious about it from Wisdom...

pushing and pushing your viewpoint "it's null it's null!!!" we get what you think, not everyone thinks that

this quoted phrase is erroneous because:

it's not an "okay" answer, it's essentially "why is your vote still valid if you're not current on the happenings?" with a response of "I selectively chose what to look at, out of context, and am making a judgement based on that and not using this many words to say so because if I do that it's obvious how scummy I am, so I'll use minimal words and make you guess at wtf"

The point was that Gamma had made a habit of pushing people for what is essentially null behavior, and I was digging into that. You reading it as if "this was null" was itself the primary objective of the back and forth is strange; I feel like my point there was obvious.

just saying

I think smith asked me some shit I don't have the energy/interest in answering, it happens sometimes, so, sometimes I just need a little coaxing, sometimes I still just won't answer cause, mehhh

You shaded me, I asked for evidence behind your theory. Apparently instead of actually providing the evidence you vomited out a vote instead. And then pissed off onto Varsoon soon after.

[mhsmith0]

aero seems ok since he started actually playing
UNVOTE:

[mhsmith0]

What's been happening:

beeboy: luna, I don't think you'd make these mistakes while reading, therefore you're prob scum
luna: beeboy, you couldn't possibly be this bad at reading me, therefore you'd obv scum

meh. I suppose a staged fight it theoretically possible, but I'm null on luna, still TR'ing beeboy.

[mhsmith0]

I just checcked the game I remembered you being in.

And you discovered _____?

[mhsmith0]

So then why the vote?

I didnt like the way you pitted me and pisskop against each other in one of your posts when you said one of us has to be scum.

sketchy reasoning

Aero why not claim miller in your opening post if you were going to do it?
I explained the pisskop vote later, keep reading.

pointless question

RLv1.0

Spoiler: Key

Conftown - {CT}

Town - {T}

LeanTown - {LT}

NullTown - {NT}

Null - {N}

NullScum - {NS}

LeanScum - {LS}

Scum - {S}

ConfScum - {CS}

{T} pieguyn [T: 34, 79]

{NT} pisskop [T: 74]
{NT} Dwlee99 [T: 108]
{NT} beeboy [NI: 19][T: 278]
{NT} mhsmith0 [NT: 9][T: 327]

{N} Luna Fox
{N} Nahdia [NT: 217]
{N} Wisdom [NT: 263]

{NS} drealmerz7 [S: 344]
{NS} SirCakez [S: 98, 116][T: 240]

{LS} Gamma Emerald [S: 64, 72* 255]
{LS} Varsoon [S: 216*, 231/232*]

Could you clarify your reads on:
Gamma 64 - seems null to me; why would a wolf be particularly motivated to shade a PR claim in that spot?
Dwlee 108 - that seems basically null, especially since there was no real follow-up on it (had been vote-parking on varsoon, doesn't really push anyone from the observation, just makes it and moves on to a different topic)
SC 240 - seems like a nullish post from SC; what's the clear town in it?
Gamma 255 - MAYBE NS, but honestly seems more bad than anything else

[mhsmith0]

since when is not reading the game a scumtell

>Beeboy pushes me for not reading
>I explain that i did read aero's posts but i didnt read the reads list fully and i explained until which point i read and what was my reaction to it
>Beeboy pushes me for not reading
>Me explains again

Like seriously is your brother this bad as town?

I've seen beeboy have pretty bad town games, like the time I did basically nothing for two game days and got a strong town read or in open 642 (the game to never speak of again). I get the sense he's overall competent but "he could totally never be bad" doesn't really apply.

[mhsmith0]

I've now referenced that horrible game TWICE already. ffs. I feel dirty.

[mhsmith0]

I'm not talking about the Miller claim--that was a good idea. Claiming Miller D1 is what you should always do.
I'm talking about being the highest voted wagon and then claiming Miller but also claiming your role is very powerful otherwise.

IIRC when Aero claimed, his wagon was basically collapsing.

395Here he claims

200Here he was at L-2
Nahdia, pieguyn, beeboy, Wisdom, mhsmith0

217Here Nahdia flips to Varsoon (Aero at 4)
225Here beeboy also flips to Varsoon(Aero at 3)
231Here Varsoon flips to no voting to voting Drealz making him a 3-vote wagon
274Here Pie flips to Dwlee (Aero at 2)
285Here Wisdom flips to Cakez (Aero at 1)
and then various other votes
and only then does Aero claim. So I don't really see how "Aero claimed to shut down his wagon" works as any kind of theory. He was long since off of the board's radar when he claimed.

[mhsmith0]

pieguyn - town lean
Varsoon - ???
Luna Fox - null
Gamma Emerald - town lean
Nahdia - ???
Wisdom - town lean
drealmerz7 - ???
SirCakez - ???
Aeronaut - town lean
beeboy - town
Dwlee99 - ???
pisskop - ???

I feel like I should have a decent scum read by now but I don't particularly.

[mhsmith0]

As a simple example, I look at Varsoon's 744 and it displays a pretty profound lack of thread awareness given that he's pushing an argument that makes zero sense given what was actually happening. It's derpy enough to maybe be town (since scum would probably know basic stuff like "what was actually happening around the events that I'm talking about) but idk if Varsoon is any good at faking that sort of thing, or is actually derpy as scum.

[mhsmith0]

It's more that I've spent more time thinking on Luna's slot than the ???'s, so I'm actually null on her, compared to some of the other slots where I don't really have a developed opinion. Some, like Varsoon, Nahdia, and dwlee, I'm not really sure that there's enough there that I could have a meaningful opinion yet (I'm mulling over whether it's fair to at least slight town read varsoon for the derp in 744, haven't decided yet). I don't really feel good about my ability to read Cakez and probably should spend more time there but haven't. I've also been demotivated from really digging through dreal's shit-posting and deciding what I should be thinking about him.

[mhsmith0]

@luna and beeboy: could the two of you like just not talk to or about each other for the next 24 or 48 hours? No one is interested in hopping on your 1v1 and it's not really fun to watch either.

[mhsmith0]

Like, pushing me with BS reasoning is something every scum does.
But now saying im lying about something he clearly said is something i can no longer tolerate.
He's going to every single extent to get me mislynched at some point.

Yeah well that point isn't today so deal with it later? There are many ther players, talk about them again please.

[mhsmith0]

So I'm scum? Ok then why am i scum other than my town reading beeboy?

[mhsmith0]

Beeboy hasn't really been pushing you that hard though, and it seems plausible that it was a misread/miscommunication, which kinda happens a lot in games. Other than "I can't believe he's doing this to me" (which obviously applies only to you here) i don't really see the case for it being an intentional scum ploy. It feels more like a fight that just spiraled out of control than anything else.

[mhsmith0]

Beeboy hasn't really been pushing you that hard though, and it seems plausible that it was a misread/miscommunication, which kinda happens a lot in games. Other than "I can't believe he's doing this to me" (which obviously applies only to you here) i don't really see the case for it being an intentional scum ploy. It feels more like a fight that just spiraled out of control than anything else.

>Not pushing me hard
>Calling out for votes on me and attempting to mislynch me
>When asked why, he goes on about all these misreps as explanations
>Everyone ignores his misreps until now, and still continue to townread him

Okay how do does that make me think ppl are supposed to be town and townreading him again?

He's really not been attempting to lynch you though. Like, looking at his quotes since his first move away from his push on you (when he went to dreal), he's fighting you on specific points but other than a brief but isn't voting you or calling for votes on you. It looks a lot more like he's just frustrated w you than it does that he's actually trying to get you lynched. And I'm a bit skeptical that scum!beeboy would just keep on the frustration bit this long WITHOUT actually making an effort to turn it into a mislynch.

Can you quote these mistakes since in Dank Meme, Street Fighter and Dragon Age mafia I can't remember you actually doing any of this. The exception to this would be dragon age mafia where you interpreted my "Luna town more pls" post as me saying I was scum reading you which is a lot more reasonable then what you did with Aero.

Also I am serious about lynching Drealz and giving Pie a chance to read you to convince me you are town if I am wrong.
Anyway I will reply to your other posts now.

I like how Luna is misrepresenting me to try and lynch me and for some reason I have to believe she is town.

Actually, My gut says that town beeboy wouldnt be using a "I dont believe town you wouldnt make mistakes in reading" since when am i good enough to be BoP'd?
VOTE: Beeboy

I didn't BoP Luna in any way shape or form.

beeboy seems pretty town to me

Not really
When Mr. Im so familiar with Luna says "Town Luna doesnt do X" when in all of my games X has happened at least once, it's more of a mislynch attempt.

I never said any of this.

Like straight up if Luna misrepresenting me is supposed to give me "good gut feelings" or whatever I am playing this game very wrong right now.

Anyway can we just lynch Drealz now.

Like I won't try and lynch Luna until tomorrow when Pie has her chance to read Luna.
And I highly doubt Drealz and Luna could drive a lynch on me so can we just move on?

Like straight up I just want to move on from this.

I am starting to think Luna could be town, but her read on me is so bad and full of misrepresentations it could be faked.

Luna before you go and find posts I just want you to know that even if you really do regularly forget to read individual important posts that still doesn't change how sketchy it is you expect to be town read for sharing 1 or 2 reads with someone.

Well beeboy's moving the goalposts, but i'll still post them anyway

Spoiler: Dragon Age Mafia

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8187505
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8200305 >http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8200311
^
This was a big one i cant believe i forgot that one
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8200759 >http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8200776

Spoiler: Street Fighter Mafia

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8112467
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8117435
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8117545
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8145543

Spoiler: Pick your Poison

MY FIRST GAME HERE
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p7209950 > Just read my ISO from there until > http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p7210085
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p7286868

Spoiler: Semi Nightless

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8140271
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8168697

Spoiler: Dank Meme

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8163299 > http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8163315
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8191907 > *gets pushed* > http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8213776 > http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8213917

I was going to keep looking through my games but got tired.

/shrug None of these are remotely close to similar to what I mentioned in 768

You're scumreading me for making mistakes
You're scumreading me for "not reading" (when i already proved i never said i didnt read, i said i didnt fully read ONE of his posts, which was the reads list)
But as I mentioned, you keep moving the goalposts.

Your "mistake" was not reading which is literally the same as why I am scum reading you tho.

Gamma's right, did you miss aero's catchup posts?
Although he blatantly ignored me during his catchup.

How did he ignore you? I don't recall you posting anything directed at him.

He seems to agree with some of my opinions yet doesnt comment on them.

Basically i think he might be faking some of those reads.

Sorry I didn't expect you to bring up his reads if they where never relevant.
I must be terrible :<

I think he is trying to avoid actually having to explain them by lurking out while me and Luna do this 1v1 thing.

i dont really agree with dreal doing that but if you're thinking scum will make use of it to lurk, why do you continue the 1v1?

I actually don't know tbh!
Thanks Wisdom for the great idea I can just ignore her and push her tomorrow!

he's not scum
please stop

Town doesnt do BS pushes on me full of misreps.
At least i've never seen town beeboy do that.
But since beeboy's kinda revenge heavy on me since Gistou I'm assuming this is his way of getting revenge.
To make me get mislynched when i've never been.

Ok I lied this is just bullshit I am not ignoring Luna anymore.
How the fuck do you think I am revenge heavy because of Gistou?
We literally played PCB mafia between now and Gistou where I was town reading you while you called me claimed scum.
You are literally just making shit up at this point to somehow try and discredit me or something.

Also nothing I said is a misrep, I said I don't believe you when you say you didn't process the differences in read list and you didn't magically read posts that aren't there. No part of that statement is a misrepresentation.
I can't say it is a fact that you didn't magically read posts that aren't there but I definitely have trouble believing you.

What is with you and thinking I have some kind of personal vendetta against you.

VOTE: Luna

/shrug

But Luna is lying about something so simplistic it isn't even funny.

and when my faction still won in the end you told me you'll seek revenge one day.

Did this conversation happen in your head or something?

Nope, and when im finding im gonna slap it in your face.
Tho if it's in a private communication it'll probably get me modkilled but w/e im not letting you get away with blatantly lying about what you've told me.

Do you want me to just replace out because us being in a game together clearly isn't working?
I don't particularly want to replace out but this is genuinely stupid and want this to stop.

So you want to put someone else in your scum slot?
Instead of taking it yourself?

Maybe I did say it I don't know but if I did I didn't mean anything by it and I wouldn't have said it in such a way where you could possibly infer I would try and mislynch you just to try and piss you off.

[mhsmith0]

I would rather a lynch not occur before I actually have a chance to sit down and do shit in this game. thanks in advance.

+1

[mhsmith0]

He's really not been attempting to lynch you though. Like, looking at his quotes since his first move away from his push on you (when he went to dreal), he's fighting you on specific points but other than a brief but isn't voting you or calling for votes on you. It looks a lot more like he's just frustrated w you than it does that he's actually trying to get you lynched. And I'm a bit skeptical that scum!beeboy would just keep on the frustration bit this long WITHOUT actually making an effort to turn it into a mislynch.

It was kinda before he switched to drealz
with his whole "LF > Luna votes"

Yeah but he's basically dropped that since and it's been >24 hours and it mainly looks like he's frustrated w you, and I'm not sure he's that good of an actor to fake it if scum, or that he'd actually be this frustrated with your push that no one believes if he was scum.

[mhsmith0]

I am sorry about lying about saying I will get revenge on you. I didn't remember saying it at the time and I am sorry about messing up my read on you.
You are taking this way too seriously Luna I just fucked up,

Oh coo you just fucked up, so i should scumread you for making mistakes too?
Like you scumread me for making mistakes?

I mean my read is you're both mad at each other (you more than him) and that's the core of both your mutual pushes, and I'm not super into wagoning either side of that. So basically accept that either you're right and can mock us relentlessly after you're proven right, or you're lost in your hate-tunnel and need to get yourself out of it. My guess is the latter is much likelier.

[mhsmith0]

Because everything he's done is NAI IMO and scum like varsoon and gamma are pushing him

Remind me why varsoon and gamma are wolves? Ive kinda gotten distracted of late for

reasons

.

[mhsmith0]

You know, i had a wild idea
What if luna is lyncher on beeboy

Its conceivable on a theory basis but I feel like she'd have played it differently. My sense if her beeboy push was reactive to his push on her as opposed to something she wanted from the beginning.

[mhsmith0]

do people really feel the need for this circus to continue for another 10 days

let's just lynch something and all cool off for a nice relaxing 48 hours.

thing is, if we do this and especially if it's a town lynch I'm probably dead overnight and I do not want this to happen without me having had a chance to actually start doing anything at all in the game.

I don't have any intention of dragging this out the entire 10 days, so I do not see how this is an unreasonable request.

Thoughts on nahdia?

[mhsmith0]

Because everything he's done is NAI IMO and scum like varsoon and gamma are pushing him

Remind me why varsoon and gamma are wolves? Ive kinda gotten distracted of late for

reasons

.

Varsoon - his crappy tunnel on dreal
Gamma - read last two pages

Because everything he's done is NAI IMO and scum like varsoon and gamma are pushing him

neither varsoon or gamma have flipped scum so this is bullshit
Youre better than this

I know, I know, pre flip associative are shitty
But it just feels so obvious at this point to me that dreal is being pushed by scum

Eh, gammas been on dreal a while, so naked hopping back there doesn't bother me. I would like him to explain his hop onto you though.

Probably should re-read varsoon and actually get an opinion there.

[mhsmith0]

I mean if we're gonna go wacky on Luna I might buy it as survivor play, signaling she's gonna just tunnel anyone who pushes her but not really be a threat. But not really a priority idea to consider at this stage IMO.

[mhsmith0]

I voted Cakez because I saw false bravado

Go on...

[mhsmith0]

While Drealz is here can he explain his Pisskop, Wisdom and Dwlee scum reads?

Fixed

[mhsmith0]

bad vibes from the nahdia post

also explaining the bad vibes would be helpful.

[mhsmith0]

So; question. Why is it that you were voting for what was essentially an RVS vote for so long during this game? Like, did you just have no other reads strong enough?

Pretty much, which is why I'm not voting now. I also dislike it when people aren't participating at all, and didn't really mind vote parking on you for a while.

[mhsmith0]

Aero why not claim miller in your opening post if you were going to do it?

seems pretty pointless to me. It's generically optimal miller play to do it, but that doesn't mean everyone does it, and it doesn't mean that the guy who made two shit posts and nothing else was sufficiently engaged in the game to expect optimal play.

Also, if you were scum you'd have a reasonable answer (no way does THAT question catch anyone other than a total newb flat-footed), which means that it's hard to see it as a question that's going to lean to any kind of readable moment. It's not quite "are you scum" level, but it's not much better than that either.

[mhsmith0]

Dwlee 108 - he's saying that it's silly to analyze whether I'm town or not based on wagon speed, which is completely accurate. I feel like it would have been pretty easy for scum to let that conversation go for two pages getting nobody anywhere.

[Just a sidenote, I tend to townread people for making sensicle posts, because I feel like while town definitely isn't always using common sense, it seems like scum usually spends more time creating fabricated reasoning instead of common sense reasoning]

meh. competent wolves are decent at making sensible posts. what pings me as plausible scum play here is that there's no follow-up. He makes the point that wagon speed analysis is bad and then stops caring about it. Which is weird because if he's arguing against a defense of you based on wagon speed, then it'd make sense to actually evaluate your wagon in some kind of meaningful manner. Instead he just goes back to "vote varsoon", which if he's a wolf is a nice way to look like he's doing something without actually having to do anything of substance.
Now, if he's town then he was just being a bit lazy with the point he was making, which is also possible, which is why it's null in my mind. "He was reasonable in this one minor point" is IMO a poor reason for a substantive read on him.

[mhsmith0]

Also

So then why the vote?

I didnt like the way you pitted me and pisskop against each other in one of your posts when you said one of us has to be scum.

was a bit reachy.

[mhsmith0]

Why? I agreed with him that cakez post was awful

You think he was trying to actively pit dwlee and pisskop against each other by saying "one has to be scum"? That just seems like a strange read on what could easily be an off-hand comment or casual read of a moment where it did look plausible that one of the two was a wolf.

[mhsmith0]

I really don't see the town utility for you to mention these two things, especially the second thing.

This part I agree with. What do you think of him pushing the notion that you somehow did it for survivability, despite your wagon having long since collapsed when you made the post?

[mhsmith0]

but what was there to warrant "one of those two is scum" from cakez?

two completely empty votes in relatively quick succession. I've seen "oh one of these is a wolf" responses to that before (though it's stronger when there's three of those kinds of votes), so it strikes me more as a reasonable reaction ot the quick empty votes as opposed to some kind of devious plan to somehow manipulate two low posters into going at each other hard.

[mhsmith0]

luna can this please stop? it's not helping the game

I'm not stopping
beeboy's like 99% scum in my eyes.

Can you elaborate more on this or quote the posts where you do?
'cus I think you're probably both town, though I don't follow your logic nearly as much as beefy's.

Oh god no. Find her posts on the subject yourself. We're not doing THAT again.

[mhsmith0]

Oh shit Wisdom is a triple voter

[mhsmith0]

that's a beautiful claim

I'd rather not have to explain it

it's a bit disconcerting that I might have to...

lol no. Do an actual claim.

[mhsmith0]

cancel my Luna read for the time being. I'm being eaten alive by paranoia and I need to think about it more.

What in particular is making you feel paranoid?
is this about the

attempt to emulate her usual "strong conviction" style of play (a la what i did in badass women)

bit you discussed in 1143? or something else?

[mhsmith0]

Spicy take: if dream is scum then Pie is his buddy.

[mhsmith0]

If it's real then at least I don't have to tinfoil about it being the most obnoxious scum theater ever.

[mhsmith0]

Shitty "look at this video" claims are not worth the time it takes to figure out.

[mhsmith0]

*grabs popcorn*

[mhsmith0]

Oh well would have been nice for that to be easy.

@pisskop: are you also getting a town ping from dwlee in the hood?

[mhsmith0]

Notable that drealz is basically lurking out his wagon but could pop in for "hope I'm clear now" and "I'm gonna go read" while ignoring the immediate demand for an actual claim.

I'm fine waiting for his claim but he's climbing up my death list.

[mhsmith0]

I'd like to see beeboy and Luna start lurking tbh.

[mhsmith0]

@luna: presuming beeboy is scum, who else makes sense as scum? Please start pushing that person, and for reasons not fully dependent in beeboy interactions? Please and thank you.

[mhsmith0]

@luna: you could also go back to talking about your town reads and trying to solve by POE. That would also be more productive than what you're currently doing. Beeboy isn't taking, and there are multiple scum. So do soemthing else w your time.

[mhsmith0]

@luna: presuming beeboy is scum, who else makes sense as scum? Please start pushing that person, and for reasons not fully dependent in beeboy interactions? Please and thank you.

Yeah sorry, beeboy just likes provoking me.

Just ignore him. Please. Your mutual back and forth is making the game unpleasant for the rest of us.
And beeboy that goes for you too. Luna's not going to succeed in lynching you any time soon, so ignore her as well.

[mhsmith0]

Seriously, both of you need to STOP talking to and about each other. Having the last word is NOT that damn important.

[mhsmith0]

@luna: presuming beeboy is scum, who else makes sense as scum? Please start pushing that person, and for reasons not fully dependent in beeboy interactions? Please and thank you.

Yeah sorry, beeboy just likes provoking me.

Just ignore him. Please. Your mutual back and forth is making the game unpleasant for the rest of us.
And beeboy that goes for you too. Luna's not going to succeed in lynching you any time soon, so ignore her as well.

Her lies, AtE and being scum are bothering me tho :<

The two of you shitting up the thread is bothering me and I think everyone else. So just move on.

[mhsmith0]

No mass claim @aero. Just a hood, a backup ic and a nurse. Nit sure if beeboy/pisskop mason bit was serious or not.

[mhsmith0]

The two of you shitting up the thread is bothering me and I think everyone else. So just move on.

I was moving on until he started provoking me again :<

Then ignore him. Let him have the last word since you're not getting lynched today anyway
Do it for me.

[mhsmith0]

Then ignore him. Let him have the last word since you're not getting lynched today anyway
Do it for me.

But he's scum...
Like I literally cant believe beeboy's town and just trying to anger and provoke and trying to find every single mistake i make.
If he's town this game he's pissing me off so bad im never playing with him again.

Here's the thing. If he's scum and provoking you, ignoring him will make it obvious that he's just provoking you for no good reason. Right now it just looks like a mutual pissing match. If you essentially put him on mute, then he CANT keep going after you without it being obvious to everyone.

So that's an approach that's helpful to you (by making his behavior obvious to others) and to the rest of us (by drastically cutting down the thread clutter). So try it for the next 48 hours. If you get wagoned or something you can change it up but if you stick to this I really don't think that's any kind of likely in the near future.

[mhsmith0]

Like i literally called everyone to comment on it and only Varsoon did :<

I don't really have that much experience w role madness setups. It seems a bit odd for scum to have multiple fake claim roles in a non flavor game, which means that pies claim seems likely to either be a ballsy gamble, a troll role given to scum (backup ic in a game with no ic) or an actual role.

Dreals claim seems like it ought to be real, although I suppose it could be a game that's multi-ball, vig, and/or sk with some level of doc protection given to scum. Wouldn't really want to lynch either one d1 though.

[mhsmith0]

I don't really have that much experience w role madness setups. It seems a bit odd for scum to have multiple fake claim roles in a non flavor game, which means that pies claim seems likely to either be a ballsy gamble, a troll role given to scum (backup ic in a game with no ic) or an actual role.

Tit for Tat is an Open game where Town has a backup of a role scum has and scum has a backup of a role town has.

Yes, it's a game that exists (I got a super cheap win in it recently). I don't know how typical closed role madness setups work in this respect though. Like, it's conceivable I guess that one or both backup roles are fake, but it's to me something to keep in the back of my mind, as opposed to a major/immediate priority. Do you think that sorting those claims should be an urgent issue?

[mhsmith0]

Do you think that sorting those claims should be an urgent issue?

Not urgent per se, but at least it means it makes sense

if

the claims so far are town. I've always learned to look at claims from both sides, so im trying to figure out if the claims we have so far make sense (disregarding the current neighborhood thing since anything could be in there).

Without knowing all the roles, and how trolly the mod wants to be, I don't really know. I'm afraid I don't have much insight into how much sense it makes. I dont even know what kind of roles/setup would be most trolly towards pie since that seems to be kind of the point of the game.

[mhsmith0]

nonsense, VCA is fine and a generally useful tool. It's just that most people are shitty at using it. I've done quite well with VCA at times.

[mhsmith0]

Of course, day 1 pre-flip VCA is kinda shitty though.

[mhsmith0]

SirCakez - I was liking some of his earlier posts and I think that Cakez is playing to his town meta but the content in some of his posts suck.

Can you talk about this a bit more? I'm explicitly not particularly good at sorting SC or really understanding his town meta, so what in particular pings you town there? Especially in light of your 1584 whcih suggests you might be walking that read back a bit.

[mhsmith0]

Varsoon, you hard claiming hood w dwlee or was that a typo?

[mhsmith0]

Oh, now that I've got the okay on it:
I'm in a neighborhood with Pisskop and Dwlee. This is largely why I understand that Dwlee has, at least, a little more of a handle on the game than what seems evident in the game thread.
This also helped to contribute to my Pisskop townread, as Pisskop has been fairly forthcoming and clear-cut between there and here.

ohh damnit Vman

Yes Im Varsoons neighbor. But I townread Bboy.

?????????????

Hey pisskop? Is this a hood or not?

[mhsmith0]

Can I get varsoon pisskop and dwlee to re-clarify this hood thing? It's so bizarre to have a dipole on something as simple as that in a game.

[mhsmith0]

Varsoon, you hard claiming hood w dwlee or was that a typo?

Everything I am claiming is true.
I do not know why Dwlee is trying to distance from it.

I'm pretty curious about this myself. Dwlee?

[mhsmith0]

Based on my role there's too many ways to stop a night kill and im not sure which claim i believe the least =/

Drealz seems the wolfiest of the people who might be kill stoppers
VOTE: drealz
Plus if everyone has a role power then no claim is by itself town indicative.

[mhsmith0]

Wisdom how would you know what fakeclaims scum have?

can this die already?

Dumb != wolf

[mhsmith0]

I think pie had a decent point about drealz wagon collapsing unnaturally, especially presuming a role madness game. I'm not town reading drealz and he's encountered wagon resistance, including right now.

[mhsmith0]

Regardless of whether it's just one vt or like 2-3 vt it seems like MOST people have roles.

[mhsmith0]

I feel like Pie is pushing us away from the Drealz wagon without actually having any sort of town read on Drealz.

I felt like that before but then she kinda revived the notion so idk.

[mhsmith0]

I also want to draw attention to how the drealz wagon fell apart.

drealz was at L-1 for quite a bit, then he softed/claimed nurse and how his wagon is nowhere to be seen. OK, whatever, but the thing is: I explicitly pointed out in 1553 that drealz' claim was not a town claim and that "keeping a PR alive" was a really shitty reason to disband the wagon, due to this being a role madness setup. this was some time after the wagon disbanded, and so I would expect that the people who had a strong scum read on the slot would see it and think something along the lines of "o wait, that wasn't a good reason to disband the wagon" and move back onto him.

what's happened? nothing.

there are some people for whom this would be fine, but Varsoon in particular has just completely fucking fell flat when it's come to drealz recently: if you compare his posts in the first half or so of the game about drealz to everything he's done recently, it's completely different. I would expect that with the knowledge not to focus on claims, he should have come back out full-force in similar vein to how he pushed drealz early in the game, since without the claim, it's just a matter of drealz' play, which he has thoroughly hated. but now Varsoon is scrambling onto the Cakez lynch and has had no signs of any serious push on drealz for the past 400 posts now.

in fact, there's a whole momentum shift of people who have just let the drealz wagon be after collapsing, despite the collapse not being well-reasoned, and pisskop's vote is also catching my eye.

I don't think this is fucking natural, not at all. I think that the drealz wagon was a bus that scum couldn't leave, and now that they have an opportunity to actually mislynch town, scum are scrambling to take it.

now, predictably, drealz will invent some reason to push Cakez and Wisdom will continue to oppose every wagon that might result in a scum lynch

vote: Varsoon (L-2)

and when it flips scum, drealz next

Fair point. She did do it to push varsoon. Def. want drealz before v.

[mhsmith0]

Not conf town but I'd rather lynch drealz than v.

[mhsmith0]

Dwlee has been sufficiently useless and boring, when I expect a lot more, that I could switch to him from drealz if needed. I think I'd rather lynch drealz first tho.

[mhsmith0]

today is probably too early, I think, but it would be very good tomorrow.

+1

[mhsmith0]

drealz seems to be going anti-spew. Feeling better about this wagon.

[mhsmith0]

I just want to say for the nth time not to let Varsoon get away if I die N1 (and if anyone tries to say "Varsoon-scum wouldn't kill pie, it's too obvious" I will cry tears of blood until I die of anaemia).

If we promise not to let that happen will you hammer drealz?

[mhsmith0]

K

[mhsmith0]

At this point I almost just want to figure out who's dragging the day out and lynch there. Or we could just lynch drealz and move on.

[mhsmith0]

varsoon/me needs resolved first otherwise more dead-endish

This is also a good point
It only helps scum for the dreal/varsoon fight to go another day

if dreal/varsoon are v/v then cakey probably a wolf

[mhsmith0]

if dreal/varsoon are v/v then cakey probably a wolf

that's what I said like...a long long time ago

when this all started

then fucking vote cakez

i think dreal is a wolf. get cakey to L-1 and restate the case and maybe I'll hammer.

[mhsmith0]

what's unclera about that?

[mhsmith0]

"info that faith healer is probably not a fakeclaim" wow that tells us so much!!! No idea why ANYONE would be confused by that.

if dreal/varsoon are v/v then cakey probably a wolf

that's what I said like...a long long time ago

when this all started

then fucking vote cakez

i think dreal is a wolf. get cakey to L-1 and restate the case and maybe I'll hammer.

I never said I think you're a wolf ONLY if dreal/varsoon are v/v. I thought that post looked like what a wolf might say about v/v wagons. If one is a wolf then I don't know what it says about your alignment.
This is a contradiction. You think I'm scum only if dreal/varsoon is TvT, and you think dreal is scum, but you would hammer me?
???

[mhsmith0]

"info that faith healer is probably not a fakeclaim" wow that tells us so much!!! No idea why ANYONE would be confused by that.

if dreal/varsoon are v/v then cakey probably a wolf

that's what I said like...a long long time ago

when this all started

then fucking vote cakez

i think dreal is a wolf. get cakey to L-1 and restate the case and maybe I'll hammer.

This is a contradiction. You think I'm scum only if dreal/varsoon is TvT, and you think dreal is scum, but you would hammer me?
???

I never said I think you're a wolf ONLY if dreal/varsoon are v/v. I thought that post looked like what a wolf might say about v/v wagons. If one is a wolf then I don't know what it says about your alignment.
EBWOP

[mhsmith0]

yeah, you're complete fucking shit at the game so I don't know why I even bother with you

wolfy post there; definite pings to RC in open 635 trying to just tell me I was terrible when I was dead accurate. Does anyone know if pie normally does this as wolf to people she disagrees with? As town?

[mhsmith0]

yeah, you're complete fucking shit at the game so I don't know why I even bother with you

wolfy post there; definite pings to RC in open 635 trying to just tell me I was terrible when I was dead accurate. Does anyone know if pie normally does this as wolf to people she disagrees with? As town?

I haven't really done anything like this in any game. I am just so sick of Wisdom being a fucking moron and making this game completely unplayable for me.

I guess I can maybe see you getting frustrated at him, but still seems over the top.

Frankly, I just want someone in my POE to die so we can move the hell on. Drealz, cakey, varsoon, dwlee. Let's just pick one and move on. It's probably just 10v3, it's not like this is LYLO.

[mhsmith0]

drealz still larger wagon.

[mhsmith0]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

That is awesome.

Probably need to re-read D1 (cries inside) knowing varsoon red. But I'm a lazy SOAB so that aint gonna be tonight.

[mhsmith0]

So pie is conftown at this point right

can we stop calling her scum yet?

and ruin our fun?

[mhsmith0]

Guys
Guess who Varsoon visited last night?

Also I got a bomb last night, no idea what it does (I'm asking GiF)

Bomb does nothing or GIF is a liar.

Also Wisdom just shot up my scum list for obvious reasons

Because he was visited then rigiht?

[mhsmith0]

So pie is conftown at this point right

can we stop calling her scum yet?

cool. i'd figured it was the visit thing you were going on about.

[mhsmith0]

possible Aero was SK and the visit was a shot I guess? but that seems relatively unlikely IMO

[mhsmith0]

possible Aero was SK and the visit was a shot I guess? but that seems relatively unlikely IMO

Varsoon visited Aero, not the other way around

Scenario:
Varsoon shoots Aero
Aero is SK
Aero shoots Varsoon

Scenario:
Varsoon heals Aero
Aero is a wolf
Vig shoots Aero

Either one makes Aero the lynch i guess? Unless I'm being dumb here.

[mhsmith0]

Ok, but it's highly feasible that there's some sort of tracking/watching etc. role in most games, especially role madness. There is absolutely zero chance that Varsoon heals his buddy with a 50% shot after that flip.

So you're claiming town vig, no BP correct? Just a messing with people sort of healer visit then?

[mhsmith0]

also, if we hit scum today then this game is pretty much entirely broken with a RB and a tracker (?) in the game

and this should be obvious, but if three mafia die and game is still going, autolynch Aero

p-edit: k

btw in case it's not obvious, i'm a "fruit" (i.e. bomb) vendor (bomb does nothing). given a jk and tracker on the board, idk if it's better to track or jk me (or both?) tonight, but i'll be sending a bomb to someone tonight. My suggestion is JK doesn't state whether or not JK'ing me until I say who I sent a bomb to, and that person can verify.

Not really gonna re-read quickly at this point, probably in next day or two.

PS Varsoon was a null for me; IIRC I'd been pretty explicit about who I was reading where and when. I can probably dig up the details if people want.

[mhsmith0]

FWIW I'm pretty flexible on who I visit tonight. I def. think a pool of potentials should be discussed before lynch. Obv not 100% clearing but probably helps, though depends a bit on what JK does I guess.

Probably JK should randomize Jk of me, tracker, and another top suspect, but I haven't really thought it through yet.

[mhsmith0]

well that was easy.

visiting inside nahdia, cakey, pisskop.

[mhsmith0]

Thank god mhsmith7 is finally dead, that guys a real asshole. Oh wait...

Ps good luck!

[mhsmith0]

Glad to see the game was over. Unfortunate it was so close but I respect the fight.

[mhsmith0]

yep glad it worked out in the end, even if it was stressful along the way <3

[mhsmith0]

A summary of this game, in pictoral form

[mhsmith0]

Did scum team and/or traitor know that?