Open 656- Tit For Tat - Endgame

[FancyPants]

VOTE: alban

For explicitly stating his vote was RVS, lynch immediately please.

[FancyPants]

VOTE: alban

For explicitly stating his vote was RVS, lynch immediately please.

There's no reason to state your vote is RVS in the second post of the whole thread.

Unless you're hyper paranoid about how you're being read.

[FancyPants]

Alban is a good wagon you should all hop on.

@Mod: I will be v/la until Monday, going away for the weekend.

[FancyPants]

Back from my VLA.

VOTE: FancyPants
It was odd that Hark called him town off one or two posts. But even odder to me that Fancy didn't question it.

Also I'm not wild about FireAssasin's entry and leap onto the Alban wagon without anything else. But I'm willing to give him another post.

Is it my responsibility to question everyone who town reads me? Sounds exhausting and a watse of time, especially since I know he's right.

Now do I give him town cred for town reading me? Not at all, scum can town read just as easily, town reading someone is pretty NAI, at least until the bigger picture is revealed.

As for Alban, did a quick Meta recap on all his RVS votes, turns out he only contributed to the RVS on one other occasion here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=66377
Where he does explicitly state the vote is an RVS vote. That said he also was scum so...

Probably worth keeping the vote here for now.

@Gamma, explain 89 please?
@Alban, why do you feel the need to explicitly state RVS vote?

[FancyPants]

Is it my responsibility to question everyone who town reads me? Sounds exhausting and a watse of time, especially since I know he's right.

Now do I give him town cred for town reading me? Not at all, scum can town read just as easily, town reading someone is pretty NAI, at least until the bigger picture is revealed.

If you are town, it is your responsibility to scum hunt. I think that questioning town reads is a good way to do that. I might agree that town reading someone is pretty NAI, but think that's why it's important to try to see why the town read. The motive and thoughts and reasoning behind the town read are more likely AI.

Essentially you're voting for me because I'm failing to scum hunt in the exact way you'd like me to, correct?

Seems pretty weak.

If Alban is town I'm liking Gamma or Texcat for scum. If they know alban is town they are looking for a reason to not be on that wagon, if alban is scum that doesn't apply however. I don't think Alban's buddies would so obviously try to divert his wagon.

[FancyPants]

You seem quite excitable Gamma, 6 votes in 5 pages? Even if you take 3 of those as RVS that seems high.

Harks comment sounded like he was trying to maximise potential bussing on Alban.

[FancyPants]

Gamma always votes like he's been smoking crack don't worry

^

Harks comment sounded like he was trying to maximise potential bussing on Alban.

translated version of this post ^
"Hark is trying to distance from the idea that he is scum pushing for the lynch of town!alban"
did i got that right?
if so - my comment didnt sound like that at all.

No, I meant you were trying to maximize the bussing potential of any of Alban's scum buddies, if they were wavering as to whether or not to bus.
It's a but flippant but I didn't find it scummy, not liking hark for scum in general, in my limited experienced people who play loose rather than careful tend to be town more often than not.

I'm kind of liking textcat for scum. Alban still owes us a few answers.

[FancyPants]

*bit flippant

[FancyPants]

@Alban, not everyone plays the same way.
Also people did ask you questions, I'm pretty sure you've been asked two, one was from me.

Anyway I don't think Alban is scum, some genuine disgust there I reckon.

UNVOTE:

Texcat though.

VOTE: Vote : Texcat
Didn't want to get his hands dirty on the Alban wagon, but needed to look active.

Eager doesn't seem quite as Eager as last game.
Sgz sneaking under the radar.
Persephone very non-commital, could be scared newb-scum.

Scum are to be found in the above, mark my words.

[FancyPants]

I still feel suspicion towards FancyPants and Hark for the reason I stated before. Just so I don't have a no-vote on my record, I'm gonna VOTE: Hark. And there's still time left in the voting, so I can change it later if need be.

Pretty good timing that.

[FancyPants]

[quote="In post 130,
Surprising how you completely disregarded from questioning those players who voted for me: Harkonnen, Yuria, Fire Assassin. Are you saying that players on my wagon can't be mafia? Thoughts on them?

I think you need to understand that you are the only one in this game who can be sure you are town.

Being on your therefore isn't inherently scummy, even if we are all wrong, being wrong isn't scummy.

Building a wagon on someone and building the day up from the pieces seems like a common opening to a game. Hark, Yuria, could be scum but I see both of them actually trying to game-solve (albeit in their own way), which can't be said of anyone I've mentioned.

Fire Cat is null for me.

[FancyPants]

I think Gamma is scum

Explain please?

[FancyPants]

Firstly I think we should hustle towards a lynch, 5 days with a weekend in between is really not a lot of time.

Now for a quick catch up, going over my thoughts on everybody in no particular order.

I think the

Alban

is probably town -

4. Most importantly, in a game where you need 7 to lynch me, 5 of you are currently voting against me. What's the likelihood that half of the players have formed an opinion against a player so quickly? What is the voted player likely to be in the case? Will the consensus happen so quickly if I were mafia?
.

Some good paranoia in this line, I don't necessarily agree with the logic but I can see the town thought process.

Don't like this post by

Persephone

131, seem more interested in not looking like scum rather than lynching scum.

I haven't really liked

Textcat

worrying over people's town reads (86 and 102), it feels scummy and counter productive. Nothing wrong with town-reading, but I feel scum want the potential pool of suspects to remain as large as possible.
However this post:

who else beside yuria is ur scumbuddy texie ?

And when did you quit beating your wife?

Are you trying to tie me to Yuria? Why?

Is interesting, I think fearing being tied to someone is a very townie response, townies don't know who is scum and therefore don't want to be tied to anyone. In fact there is an advantage for scum cat to be tied to town Yuria.
Therefore I come to the conclusion that textcat and yuria are scum together, or neither are scum (more likely at this stage).

Hark

is probably town but that whole scum claiming business is pretty annoying and anti-town. Do you get Nk'ed early in games often?

Yuria

seems to be game-solving for me, but I can see her potentially fooling me.

Gamma

is pretty null, struggling to get a read, why do you town read textcat gamma?

NJAC

is a town lean but has collectively said very little.

I''m town reading both

Eager

and

Fire Assasin

for similar reasons (that basically boils down to a IDGAF attitude).

That leaves the lurkers of Kop, Sgz and Persephone.
I can definitely see two scum in those three.

I kinda like Persephone because of 131. I can live with Kop as well.

For now.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: Persephone
Look at her ISO, I could definitely see her being newb-scum who is unable to play due to not knowing how to manufacture reads.

[FancyPants]

all 3 scum are doing a good job of laying low so far btw

so gj on that

All the better to vote Persephone.

[FancyPants]

Please vig Hark night 1. Thank you.

[FancyPants]

At this stage everyone should state who there serious lynch candidate is. The vote count is a shambles with like 8 people on L-5/6.

[FancyPants]

Gamma who is your hardest tr?

Probably texcat.

[FancyPants]

Also, I'd probably lynch FA or FancyPants rn.

Based on?
Are you being deliberately obtuse because I really think we have enough of that this game.

[FancyPants]

What's a VI BTW?

[FancyPants]

Gamma in case you missed it I was asking why you find Fire Assassin and I scummy?

[FancyPants]

Gamma in case you missed it I was asking why you find Fire Assassin and I scummy?

You for reasons texcat listed, FA for his suggestion of a quicklynch on tex for bad bad reasons.

*Reason textcat listed.
It was one thing - the fact that I didn't comment on Hark's town read of me on the first page.
We had an exchange about this, but essentially I didn't think it was worth commenting on.

As for FA do you think this post (140 )is more likely to come from scum, and if so why?

Also you voted for Hark and Eager as your last two votes, when did they become less scummy than FA and I in your eyes?

[FancyPants]

Gamma in case you missed it I was asking why you find Fire Assassin and I scummy?

You for reasons texcat listed, FA for his suggestion of a quicklynch on tex for bad bad reasons.

Fancy Pants your point I disagree with.

A few have suspected Texcat along with myself, but we aren't seeming to gain any real info, and with a flip, we can draw associations and actually get some serious information that we can draw on. By going around in circles on day one we aren't going to gain the information that can be used to crack the game, yes we can draw conclusions/associations, buddying, who suspected who, who town read who, etc etc, we aren't going to build on that unless we get a flip and get night actions out of the way where we start putting the dots together.

Yes it may seemed rushing now because we have 5 days left, but we have a weekend in between that, and I'm not overly active on a weekend, and I'm sure that could count towards others too.

The reason why I have a slight scum read on yourself is simply because of my reasons to disagreeing with some of your posts. And your constant changing, it seems your all over the place. Call it gut.

Not fancypants, I meant the Fire Assassin point you made.

I still don't get it, please clarify.

[FancyPants]

Nah at least one of FA and alban is scum.

Why specifically those two? Why not both? Why not neither?

[FancyPants]

@Gamma, convince me Fire Assasin is scum.

[FancyPants]

@Persephone, who's scum? Still Hark?

[FancyPants]

Don't know why you're asking me specifically but sure I'll try.

Because I'm struggling to follow your logic this game, and I think you're scummy.

[FancyPants]

@Gamma this is mostly what confuses me.

Earlier you voted Hark, tried to convince people to follow you, even reaffirmed your vote for Hark.

Now we've gotten to the point where:

Nah at least one of FA and alban is scum.

Why specifically those two? Why not both? Why not neither?

I said at least one, and because of their throwing shade at Hark in unison. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they both flipped scum.

Throwing shade at Hark is apparently scummy.

This isn't the first time you've shown inconsistencies in your thought process's or co0mpletely changed your mind about something.

Anyway I'll let you answer about Fire Assassin.

[FancyPants]

1) I townread Hark now
2) I never threw shade like that

OK well clearly there is a difference between asking people to vote for someone, and throwing shade, will you explain the difference to me?

Also you mentioned you'd explain why Fire Assassin is scummy?

[FancyPants]

Actually don't bother, I don't think you're scum, just illogical.

Anyway I really think we should lynch a lurker.
I'm talking about anyone in Kop, Farside, Persephone, and NJAC.
Preferably Persephone.

This has been the perfect game for scum to hide, most of the active players have been at least somewhat town. Textcat and Eager are my outside shots for scum in the active pool of players.

[FancyPants]

I don't think any of Kop, Farside, Persephone or NJAC are in danger of being NK'ed either.

[FancyPants]

Unless they get vig'ed, but that's irrelevant to that train of thought.

[FancyPants]

For what it's worth I don't agree with the FA case.

I don't think and have never thought OMGUS is scummy.
As for wanting an explanation for why reads change I think it's perfectly logical to want an explanation for a change in position.

The rest is for "throwing shade" and I'm not sure of the difference between throwing shade, and a regular accusation.

If no-one is keen for a persephone or similar lynch, I could live with textcat. I wanna here from everyone else first.

[FancyPants]

The four people I mentioned.

[FancyPants]

VOTE: NJAC

i agree, his reads are terrible this game. i think its bcz he's scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NJAC

Yep.

[FancyPants]

I like your paranoia Alban, but that looks pretty consistent to me. I think you're reading this:

{FancyPants}
{Gamma Emerald, Fire Assassin, eagerSnake}
{Kop, texcat, Sgz13, persephone325}
{Yuria}
{alban, NJAC}

Backwards.

[FancyPants]

I gave my latest scum pool here:

Actually don't bother, I don't think you're scum, just illogical.

Anyway I really think we should lynch a lurker.
I'm talking about anyone in Kop, Farside, Persephone, and NJAC.
Preferably Persephone.

This has been the perfect game for scum to hide, most of the active players have been at least somewhat town. Textcat and Eager are my outside shots for scum in the active pool of players.

NJAC makes sense, he'll do.

[FancyPants]

As for my reasoning it's largely due to process of elimination from Town reads and the belief that scum have been laying low.

[FancyPants]

I gave my latest scum pool here:

Actually don't bother, I don't think you're scum, just illogical.

Anyway I really think we should lynch a lurker.
I'm talking about anyone in Kop, Farside, Persephone, and NJAC.
Preferably Persephone.

This has been the perfect game for scum to hide, most of the active players have been at least somewhat town. Textcat and Eager are my outside shots for scum in the active pool of players.

NJAC makes sense, he'll do.

If you still have nothing more on NJAC as compared to the other 4, shouldn't you think whose lynch gives the city max info?
Going by interactions and content, it should be Kop > Farside > Persephone > NJAC in the descending order.
If I were you, I will keep Gamma at the top.
Their sizeable interaction pool gives me more to analyse even if they are wrongly lynched.
NJAC has hardly participated in the game. Sure he can be lying low, but if he flips town, his lynching doesn't give any info to me. Does it to you?

The problem with Persephone is that she appears to be such a raw newb, it's hard to know if she's just scum trying to stay under the radar or just doesn't know how to play effectively.
The problem with the Sgz slot is that he appeared to just have no time in general as opposed to actively lurking and using inactivity to his advantage.
I would be just as happy with a Kop lynch.

So NJAC is a good option, ideally the Vig takes care of Kop.

[FancyPants]

I think we're owed a bit from NJAC, he did say he doesn't post much on weekends which is fair because neither do I.

@NJAC, will you give us your reads considering you look like a likely lynch candidate at this point?
Also why do you believe their are scum on your wagon?

[FancyPants]

Oh forgot to add, if NJAC does indeed get lunched today and turns out to be town, the scum-meter on farside and Gamma grows exponentially. Just putting that out there.

Why?

[FancyPants]

Because he's an easy lynch and they are the ones who made it happen. Harkonnen drove the wagon, but they are the ones who gave it momentum. Also they never had strong suspicions on him, they only hopped on the lynch once a universal town read invited people to do it. I guess they thought they can try to shift the blame onto Hark tomorrow, and claim how scummy NJAC was and how they were all doing us a favour.

(Again, this is only if NJAC is town. If he's scum, then I don't know.)

Maybe. Town could just have been wrong in that scenario though. I would be more interested in the people who "knew" the NJAC wagon was a bad one, he hasn't done anything that screams town in my estimation.

@Eager, I would appreciate it if you felt like explaining your Kop vote.
Additionally do you have a few likely scum reads, other than Kop?

@Persephone, if you were absolutely forced to kill someone this second, who would it be and why?

[FancyPants]

Still happy with lynching NJAC.

I think we can all agree a no lynch would be an extremely bad result.
Please get all hands on deck.

If you're scum ignore this and continue to lurk.

[FancyPants]

And suddenly five people were ready to vote for NJAC?
That was like a quicksand.
I hope I am not defending NJAC wrongly. And doing his job for him.
NJAC where are you? Start defending yourself

You're doing a good job. I'm trying to understand the "cases" on me to defend myself, but I still don't see them.

Process of elimination through town reads and I see no genuine interest in hunting scum at all.
You were perfectly happy to keep quiet while the town flailed, pretty scummy behaviour.

[FancyPants]

All this paranoia about how quickly the wagon formed is dumb.
I believe there were only 4 votes on NJAC at any given time, and I see no reason why scum would want to power lynch "town-NJAC".

Scum are far more careful when hopping on to a town wagon, where as townies don't know the wagon is bad and therefore are more inclined to hop on.

This conspiracy that the NJAC wagon is some sort of planned scum team mis-lynch doesn't make any sense if you think about it from all the perspectives.

[FancyPants]

My problem with Gamma is that he's so consistently inconsistent that it makes him hard to read.
That said he kinda

feels

town, meaning he does care about scum hunting in his own way.

Basically I disagree with him but I see town intent there. I'm struggling to come to terms with scum-gamma that has constructed all these elaborate theories as well as town and scum reads.

Gamma just being a VI feels correct.

[FancyPants]

Farside is a minor scum read, her scum reads seem pretty convinient.
Would you mind posting that Gamma scum game?

[FancyPants]

I don't really like Farside as an alternative to NJAC.

Textcat or Persephone would be better.

[FancyPants]

this is some epic bussing lol

i think if NJAC flips scum, the scumteam is {NJAC, Gamma, Farside}

Yeah, I have to say this is a stretch.

[FancyPants]

This is me calling Persephone scum now so I can brag about it at the end of the game.

In other news I'm really not sold on Farside.

[FancyPants]

Farside is a minor scum read, her scum reads seem pretty convinient.
Would you mind posting that Gamma scum game?

Says what?
No seriously tell me what Crack your selling.
Gamma scum read when no one had one?
Kop scum read when no one has one.
Njac and perseph scum reads that no one was pushing till I replaced?

What game are you reading?

Hmmm Gama maybe, you don't get credit for any of the others.

Yuria pushed Kop before you replaced in and I have repeatedly stated I'd be OK with his lynch
NJAC was kind of a collective decision and you didn't exactly seem the most decisive, Hark had to bully you.
As for Persephone I wanted him lynched before you replaced in as well.

I've been following the game closely. Are you?

[FancyPants]

This is me calling Persephone scum now so I can brag about it at the end of the game.

In other news I'm really not sold on Farside.

You didn't answer my question:

Am I scummier than Farside in your eyes?

Also you never responded to my response to your case on me.

I'm going to put this on hold for the next 12 hours, I want some people to weigh in.

Does anyone know if this is textcats usual level of activity?

[FancyPants]

persephone325 has been prodded again.

NO ITS NOT FFS

ITS NULL

vote for NJAC stop giving me cancer

I'll feel like a complete tool if NJAC is scum, but:
VOTE: Vote : Persephone

I've liked Persephone as scum for ages, her posts read as newb scum unsure of how to proceed, PoE also gives her slot very strong odds of being scummy.
As for NJAC he has at least shown he is here to play, and I feel like there would be far easier wagons to push for scum-NJAC than Farside.

Unfortunately this lynch is a low information lynch but I think it's a really high scum percentage lynch.

[FancyPants]

UNVOTE:

Vote : Persephone

Just in case my formatting was bad.

[FancyPants]

Why is everybody ignoring the complete and total turnaround in attitude in both NJAC and Gamma Emerald? What's with the persephone wagon now? Didn't you all just say a new wagon was a bad idea a few hours ago? I'm really starting to understand why alban ragequit.

I'm staying with my Gamma vote, thankyouverymuch. The vig is going to have a busy few nights.

A new wagon isn't necessarily a bad idea, as long as we can hustle over the next 30 hours or so. I've seen more happen in less time in mafia.

I feel like this thread is full of people who crammed for their final exams. Doesn't mean we aren't going to nail it.

[FancyPants]

Gamma wagons every chance he gets as town it's a NAI thing for him - he just changes his mind frequently. I think I already said this.

Link?
As I said I did a quick search and only got through 2 games that had him more tunnelling then voting whatever wagon appeared.

In this mini normal he was town and on the following wagons-

D1- Grendel, CCC, Square World, CCC, Manuel87, eagerSnake,

D2- CCC, VictorDeAngelo,

D3- The_Jester, gerryoat, Huntress,

D4- malpascp

So, 6 wagons D1, 2 wagons D2, 3 wagons D3, and then the only wagon D4

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

In order for it to be NAI you need to show that he jumps on the same amount of wagons as scum. That scum Gamma game he seemed less "wagony". Which implies Gamma is just a wagon jumper as town.

[FancyPants]

Will you please explain your persephone town read Yuria?

[FancyPants]

I really feel like newb-scum are more likely to hedge or struggle with reads because they know they have to fabricate them.
They worry about what they have to say knowing everything is being scrutinized.

I recently played with newb-scum who did exactly that, pleading ignorance rather than producing anything of value.
I know it's player dependent but I'm not buying Persephone's behaviour as newb-town behaviour.

Especially with the replace out.

[FancyPants]

I think we've been given another day? Plenty of time for talk still.

[FancyPants]

The whole quick wagon on NJAC makes me want to scream.
Why is njac wagon suspect and not the perse?
Why is one wagon more uncomfortable then the other?

I want someone who has said NJAC wagon looks to quick to respond.

No scum want to call out the Perse wagon because they don't want to be exposed as her buddies.

[FancyPants]

I think we lost that extra day?
We only have 11 hours...

I'll be on in the morning and I'll hop on textcat if it happens but PLEASE can we not no lynch.
I can't bare another day with no flip.

[FancyPants]

OK never mind I think we still have that extra day.
Crisis averted.

You do.

[FancyPants]

VOTE: texcat

It'll be very satisfying if we've actually derailed a deadline mislynch onto the real scum.

Somewhat less satisfying if we derail a scum wagon.

[FancyPants]

That's

L-1

for Flubbernut.

[FancyPants]

Okay so when I get around to seeing a vc I'll sheep vote for them

Lol.

[FancyPants]

You're on L-1, I believe Textcat is at L-2.

[FancyPants]

who should i jailkeep tonight?

hypothetically, of course.

FA, MDS or "yourself".

Vig should kill the "other" wagon if our lynch flips town, and IDK if our lynch flips scum.

[FancyPants]

Or idk is it better to use Jailkeeper offensively even with three scum?

[FancyPants]

Okay so when I get around to seeing a vc I'll sheep vote for them

Lol.

You don't look townie to me

You must see the irony in saying you'll sheep a vote count when you were on L-1 at the time.
Certainly worth a lol.

[FancyPants]

No thanks.

Not claiming is really suspicious at this point.

Sounds like you're stalling in order to figure out the most advantageous claim, not a good sign.

[FancyPants]

Just sharing a few more thoughts in case I actually turn up dead tomorrow. If texcat is scum, here's a few things to consider:

- Why did some people, noticeably Gamma Emerald, townread her? (Moreover: what's up with the odd agreements between the two of them?)
- Why were Gamma and she both suspecting Fire Assassin when nobody else was?
- Why have certain people, noticeably eagerSnake, been digging at her from basically the beginning of the game?
- Why did she apparate from the void to push at the counterwagon? Trying for the towncredit or attempting to cause a mislynch that was "vetted" by the town reads? Meta her maybe.

If texcat is town:

- Why were certain people so sure she was town when she hadn't done absolutely anything helpful or made any effort to give reads or scumhunt?
- Do you think the scum were on her wagon? How many of them?
- Do you think her suspicions (particularly on Fire Assassin) had any merit to them? Could Fire be a master ruseman, or was texcat just mistaken?

Some good points here.

I'll go ahead and claim intent to hammer

textcat

.

[FancyPants]

Omg. Don't hammer until she says *something*.

Kind of the point of me claiming intent and not actually hammering.

[FancyPants]

my townread on FP isnt as strong as before btw
i dont like his latest posts. gut

/care.

[FancyPants]

@Hark, can you summarize why you want to see NJAC lynched?

I still think FA, Hark, and the Gamma slot are most likely town but I need a reread.

[FancyPants]

@Eager, who is scum and why?
@Kop, same question?

[FancyPants]

PUTA

Will you explain why you want NJAC lynched?

[FancyPants]

I'm giving myself a deadline here saying expect a reread from me by tonight. I want to see everyone's interactions with Textcat, Persephone and even Alban (since he was the early wagon) knowing that they are all town.
I'm by no means convinced that NJAC is town but I'm worried that we are going to fall into the gambler's fallacy of thinking of our late wagons was scum when all of them could have been town.
I could see scum being something like Eager/Kop/Farside quite easily, but I will pay special attention to NJAC on my reread.

[FancyPants]

I think texcat is lynchbait. You should sheep me.

Townreading the biggest wagon without reasoning sets off red flags for WKing for me, but gamma did the same thing but worse so idk

This is actually a really good point.

I've been feeling a bit disheartened since night since we're doing so badly but screw that I still wanna win.

Toying with NJAC and Farside scum team, need to look into it further, tonight hasn't been good.

[FancyPants]

NJAC how to you reconcile calling Textcat lynch bait to prefering her vote to Persephone?

[FancyPants]

I kind of like NJAC's attitude if not his behaviour.
I didn't like how he was inactive, then only became active when he had pressure on him, then went inactive after the pressure died a bit.
I also think Farside's argument has some merit.

That said when I ISO him I feel like their are some genuine posts there stuff like this 681 feels like townie arrogance. This is partly why I speculated about a NJAC, Farside double bus kind of vibe.
Basically NJAC is under pressure, so he decides to (rather than eagerly jumping on a townie wagon of either Text or Perse) make a case on farside and refuses to drop it, perhaps to make farside look good when he flips?
In fact there is very little emotion in their interactions. NJAC even pointed towards Farsides posts recently which I find quite strange coming from people who are supposedly at each others throats.

Anyway I still have confidence in my primary town reads; the Hark slot (also a town replace as I doubt scum Hark would replace out of such an easy position), FA, and Infinity/Gamma (part of the reason I didn't interact with you is because I already think your slot is town).

I'd say the second worst slot at the moment is eager, last game I played with him he spammed up the thread as town (251 posts), this game he's done 45 in about the same amount of pages. Not at all how I'd expect him to play, and he needs to give reads ASAP.

There's probably one scum in Yuria and Kop.

[FancyPants]

Interesting.

Why that last line?

PoE

[FancyPants]

Unless it's NJAC + Farside + Eager

[FancyPants]

I'm pretty sure he was agreeing with your points with regards to NJAC. Are we on the same page here?

[FancyPants]

@Farside, care to speculate on possible scum partners if NJAC is scum?

[FancyPants]

The longer eager doesn't post more I think he is scum.

The more you call me scum the more I think you're scum.

Eager will you please give your reads, explaining explain your scum reads?

[FancyPants]

Also I think NJAC is at

L-1

just for the record.

[FancyPants]

Eager will you please give your reads?
Explaining the scum reads.

Fixed.

[FancyPants]

Eager are you unwilling to give full reads?

[FancyPants]

@MOD, I'm VLA until Monday.

[FancyPants]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Eagersnake

1066
1096

This is not a person who cares about lynching scum.
His ISO is littered with padding in an already moderately inactive game.
Also not acting at all how town-eager did in our last game together.

Very high chance of scum here.

[FancyPants]

Quote above is broken fixed here:

Prod dodge vote eager

Dude you literally wanted to lynch 2 different townies yesterday, literally spent all of D1 focused on townies, 1 of which was a JK, why should anyone listen to you?

I actually think this is one of the scummiest posts of the game

[FancyPants]

That was a big mistake/scummy FA.

If I'm scum why don't I just hammer NJAC?

This is a really bad slip.
He doesn't even acknowledge that NJAC could be scum.

Wewps.

Eager is as close to conf-scum as one can get IMO

[FancyPants]

And that hammer was really frustrating considering we just caught him.

[FancyPants]

In case I die please lynch Eager, it's going to be difficult in LYLO but be resolute!

[FancyPants]

I was going to continue my case on Eager but there is some interesting back and forth between Eager and Kop, they were at each others throats quite a bit this game.
I'm unsure if this makes Eager look better.
Here's an interesting question, if you are scum here to you jailkeep your most suspected buddy or go for jailkeep on a suspected vig? I half expected the vig shot to bounce off Eager.

@Eager, care to explain how you knew NJAC would flip town here:

If I'm scum why don't I just hammer NJAC?

It's probably worth having a look back at all the wagons with the flipped player information

[FancyPants]

I was going to continue my case on Eager but there is some interesting back and forth between Eager and Kop, they were at each others throats quite a bit this game.
I'm unsure if this makes Eager look better.
Here's an interesting question, if you are scum here to you jailkeep your most suspected buddy or go for jailkeep on a suspected vig? I half expected the vig shot to bounce off Eager.

@Eager, care to explain how you knew NJAC would flip town here:
In post 1104, eagerSnake wrote:
If I'm scum why don't I just hammer NJAC?


It's probably worth having a look back at all the wagons with the flipped player information

I didn't "know" he would flip town but I figured he might I got townvibes from his at-the-end appeals

Kinda feels like you didn't even consider the possibility.

Who's scum?

[FancyPants]

It's hard for me to imagine someone being scum other than eager and farside here

I'm kind of with you.

The Hark replace out was pretty town, hard to imagine scum replacing out of such a favourable day 2. Given that I town read the slot beforehand it's probably a safe town bet.
I have strong town reads on Infinity and a slightly less certain town read on Fire Assasin. It kind of has to be Eager and Farside.

It's fair to say that if we mis-lynch now we probably lose.

If we mis-lynch a townie scum only have three possible vig targets. There's also a strong chance they have at least one or two townies cleared as "cannot be vig".
Considering they have a JK still in the game perhaps a mass claim is in order? Is that a terrible idea? It feels like it might be optimal.

[FancyPants]

VOTE: fire

Would also vote hark (insert replacement name here

Farside will you share why you think FA is scum?
Also why you think Eager is a bad lynch for today.

[FancyPants]

I'm going to be blunt.

I think eager is the vig.

The kill on Kop and his read on Kop make sense to be vig.
So it's poe at this point.

I actually had the same thought which is why I called for a mass-claim...
Guess we'll see how this pans out.

To be fair if you are scum you could have come to that conclusion easier, but since I came to that conclusion myself I can't blame you.

[FancyPants]

VLA till Sunday morning.

[FancyPants]

Last thoughts before I leave.

Eager should probably claim now, we've either given scum a good lead, or Farside is scum but in either case if you are the vig you should speak up. Then if we get a counter claim at least our odds of hitting scum have go up to 50%.
Also Farside and I have soft-claimed not vig, and Hark can't be the vig so the vig pool from a scum perspective is pretty small at this point.

As for Hark I did think his replace out was townie but her did make one comment early in the game, somewhere along the lines of "I always get town read as scum" that I thought was dodgey, perhaps worth a relook.

No drastic action before I get back please.

[FancyPants]

Just a quick reread from my phone, fire assassin seems super salty that eager dared to play a lurky game as the vig. Also if he's scum the comment about no one deserving the win implies Hark scum.

[FancyPants]

We do need the Fire Assasin slot to confirm they aren't he vig but it looks pretty certain that they aren't. So Eager = Vig, most likely.

I'm kind of keen to just lynch the Hark/Ted slot.

I'm going back and forth on Fire Assasin, I've town read him most of the game but some of his recent comments; namely the one about no one deserving the win and his saltiness with Eager have really bugged me.
How does town Fire Assasin know that scum don't deserve the win?

Farside was a PoE scum read but I can follow her town logic throughout the game.

Hark + FA scum?

[FancyPants]

Hark + FA scum?

You're at least half-wrong, but whatever. I subbed in to fill a hole in this game.

I'm extremely grateful you did, don't get me wrong. Honestly it was quite shitty of Hark and FA to replace out, so thanks.

I did town read hark for most of the game but it's becoming difficult to PoE the scum team for me, it means I have to widen the net.

[FancyPants]

I'd be willing to popcorn claim. What would the order be?

I'd like:
Ironstove
Farside
Twisted
Infinity
Myself
Eager (If still necessary)

[FancyPants]

Well it's a little annoying you get to make that pretty poor decision but fine, I'm the

Backup Role-Cop

.
I doubt we'll get a counter-claim but we might as well play this out.

[FancyPants]

I guess Farside and Twisted next, but at this stage the order really doesn't matter.

[FancyPants]

Just waiting for Farside to weigh in and then we'll know where we stand.

[FancyPants]

My current reads would be:
Infinity = Town
Farside = Town lean
Ironstove = scum lean
Twisted = Prob scum

But I think I need to do ISO's on everyone with a clear mind before I decide.

[FancyPants]

Shameful prodge.
I do want to win and sort this game out but I'm somewhat dreading the effort required.

This is my first town game that isn't a Newbie and it's hard for me to come to terms with 2 remaining scum. Clearly the scum play is of a higher quality.
I will reread tomorrow and make my decision.

[FancyPants]

I think our best option is to vote for Ted and take it from there. If he isn't scum then town got outplayed fair enough. Farside + Ted look fairly likely to me at this point, but I'm more sure of the Ted slot.

[FancyPants]

I think our best option is to vote for Ted and take it from there. If he isn't scum then town got outplayed fair enough. Farside + Ted look fairly likely to me at this point, but I'm more sure of the Ted slot.

Nah. Infinity + Ironstove is the scumteam

Infinity has actually read really town to me since he's replaced in. He's probably the last person I would vote.

[FancyPants]

I'm pretty sure Eager is the confirmed vig? If he isn't I'm going to be annoyed as I'd rather vote him if he isn't.
I'm still pretty sure it's not Ironstove or Infinity, if they've fooled me I suppose they deserve the win.

Ready to vote Twisted.

[FancyPants]

Ok I'm ready to lynch

Scum single, paranoia triggered.

[FancyPants]

*Signal

[FancyPants]

OK let's do Farside.

Vote : Farside

[FancyPants]

I think that's the hammer, someone put me out of my misery if we've lost please x.

[FancyPants]

Ok I'm ready to lynch

Just to clarify I am extremely worried that this was some sort of scum signal, letting his buddy know they should go for the jugular. Hence my switch to Farside.

[FancyPants]

I still think Ironstove is town so I'm backing that read here.
If Farside is town and infinity is scum we should see an immediate switch here.

[FancyPants]

I don't understand why scum infinity doesn't just hammer you, if you're town.

[FancyPants]

Well I expressed my willingness to vote him but perhaps I'm being paranoid.

[FancyPants]

unvote

[FancyPants]

vote : ted

Bugger it, I don't know. Ted's our best bet.

[FancyPants]

Sorry if I just threw town.

[FancyPants]

unvote

[FancyPants]

Ironstove I feel like I'm out of my depth here, this is my first non-newbie as town and I'm town reading everyone despite knowing only 2 can be.
I was confident of my FA read and I'll transfer that confidence to you. If you're scum consider me pocketed because I'll just do what you think is best.

[FancyPants]

I'm not trying to absolve myself of responsibility, if I my play was better we wouldn't be in this mess .

[FancyPants]

Please declare your target between infinity/ted if you could because I'm worried that if you don't declare and we hammer, vigi and jailer will block each other if farside flips jailer. Vigi shoots the other.

Fair, in the case of a farside scum flip I'd check infinity.

[FancyPants]

Infinity and Farside could still be town .
I'm trusting you though, well played if you fooled me.

Vote : Farside

Going out for a drink, won't be on until tomorrow.

[FancyPants]

To be fair if you told me 30 pages ago that I would be in lylo with Hark/FA/Farside and Gamma this wouldn't be that difficult. Might as well go with my early reads. I think Farside and Infinity might just be good players.

[FancyPants]

Sorry Infinity you came up as Backup Jailkeeper with my investigations. Therefore this is an incredibly easy game.

Vote : Infinity

Hey Smith, want the easiest win of your life?
We mass claimed yesterday and Eager was the vig and I claimed back up town role cop, no-one counter claimed. Farside died and I investigated infinity.
EZ game.

[FancyPants]

I can only assume Infinity mis-calculated the scenarios when he killed Eager, he had to kill me to have a chance.

[FancyPants]

Ninja'd yeah sorry infinity you played really well! Ironstove really saved town in the end there.

[FancyPants]

You were unlucky basically, if we didn't lynch your role cop I think you would still have won.
Even if you killed me last night I think you would have stood a really good chance.

Did you miss me saying I would investigate you yesterday? I said it in thread, and Iron bolded it.

[FancyPants]

To be fair on Eager he did give us our first life line by shooting Kop.

[FancyPants]

MDS also deserves a lot of credit. Replacing into a scummy slot and making herself immediately valuable enough to eat the maf NK.

[FancyPants]

I just think you guys could've pulled out a twizted Lynch to win

Else you should've still killed the claimed role cop who said he was investigating you (this was another reason I didn't shoot infinity)

I don't think anyone is arguing killing infinity was the right call, I do think killing Ted may have been optimal though.

Had you killed Ted (which I think was optimal) and had infinity killed me (which was definitly optimal).

It would have been Ironstove, Infinity and you. In that case it's up to infinity to convince you to vote Iron, which I think was doable.

Another interesting option would have been for Infinity to jail me. Then we are left with a few interesting outcomes.

[FancyPants]

Are scum OK with releasing their thread?